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Okay, but there is a lot more to it than QB A being better than QB B because A's team wins more than B's in the playoffs. Would you have taken Aikman over Young in the playoffs in the early to mid 90s because he won more SBs and his team won more in the playoffs? And for as good as Roethlisberger has been at times in the playoffs, could he have shredded the number 1 defense in the NFL like Manning did in last year's AFC title game, despite having a terrible running game?
It was a mediocre stretch, but it wasn't terrible. 6.8 ypa, 70 QB rating, 4 TDs (he had one rushing) vs. 7 INTs... given enough games, any QB is going to throw up a 4-game stretch like that through random chance. Hell, the only substantive difference between that and Roethlisberger's playoff performance in 2004 (61.3 QB Rating, 3 TDs, 5 INTs) is that Manning played 4 games and Ben only played 2.Again, Manning has a better postseason passer rating than Tom Brady or Ben Roethlisberger. The drop in his passer rating from regular season to postseason is exactly the same as Tom Brady's (actually, in terms of a percentage of overall rating, Manning's QB Rating drops less in the postseason). Three of the top 5 games any QB has played in the last 50 years have come by Peyton Manning in the playoffs, including last season when he shredded one of the top passing defenses in recent memory to the tune of 10 yards per attempt and a 123 QB rating. The fact that people keep looking for and singling out any bad performance he might have had just proves the point that his postseason failures are drastically overrated. Peyton Manning has had a QB rating below 80 only 7 times in 18 games, which is pretty much identical to Roofles' rate of 4 times in 10 games.
On a day when Parker (14-35) and Bettis (15-39) were stuffed Roethlisberger shredded Champ Bailey & John Lynch in the AFC Championship game at Mile High in 2006, 21-29 for 275 yards 2 TD O INT, 124.9 QB Rating and ran a bootleg for a TD.In the first half of that game Ben threaded a 30-35 yard TD pass to Hines Ward while rolling left that still amazes me.
Not for nothing, since I agree with you re : Manning, but you do have to factor into that the fact that Roethlisberger played 20% of his career playoff games as a rookie (and an early-entry junior at that.) Manning was pretty freaking bad his rookie season (71 rating), but he had 32 starts under his belt before he played his first playoff game, as opposed to 13 for Roethlisberger. Take Ben's 2 games as a rookie out of the equation, and his career playoff QB rating is 93.4, which is actually higher than his regular season passer rating over that stretch, and several points higher than either Manning or Brady. And that includes the 22 rating stinker in SB 40. It's not necessarily apples to apples is all I'm saying.
Difference being Ben's playoff performance in 2004 was his rookie season, Manning's was in the peak of his career.
Are you suggesting it was impressive that Roethlisberger had a great day against what was the 29th ranked pass defense that year? I'm not sure how that addresses the question to which you responded.
Trust me, I am well aware of how well Roethlisberger played that day, but that Broncos defense wasn't close to as good as last year's Jets defense. You need a major reality check if you think BR shredding that Broncos defense is even close to the same level as what Manning did to the Jets last January.
Troy is awesome, I agree. But you are obviously not a Steeler fan, and you obviously haven't seen either of the first two games the Steelers have played this year.
I'm "suggesting" Roethlisberger came up big in an AFC Championship Game despite getting nothing in the running game. He did it again vs. the Ravens in the 08-09 AFC Champ (#2 ranked passing D) when Parker went 24-47.Are you suggesting it was impressive that Roethlisberger had a great day against what was the 29th ranked pass defense that year? I'm not sure how that addresses the question to which you responded.
Absolutley! Just like half the QBs in the league would have 2 SBs if they played for the Steelers.
No, the defense came up big in that game, forcing 4 turnovers and sealing the win with an INT return for a TD late in the 4th quarter. Roethlisberger's TD throw to Holmes was awesome, but other than that, he did nada in that game. That was definitely a game the defense won, as shown by them holding the Ravens to under 200 total yards and forcing 4 turnovers.
Ha! For a 2nd year QB he looked pretty damn good in the Jake Plummer Retirement Game.
You've got to be kidding me. You do realize they passed for 43 yards last week, don't you?
255 yards 1 TD 0 INT against that defense in Pittsburgh mid-January was big.
Holy red herring, Batman!Who here is arguing that Roethlisberger isn't good? Who's arguing that he isn't great? Who's arguing that he's a choker, or that he's wilted under pressure? Who has argued that he's a poor performer in the playoffs? You can talk until you're blue in the face about how great Ben Roethlisberger is when it matters the most, and all you'll get is a round of blank stares and a chorus of "Duh!"s. The discussion wasn't that Ben was bad in big spots, it's that Peyton Manning is every bit as good as Ben is (if not better) in big spots.
Actually the discussion is who is more valuable to their team? Troy or Ben?
TIA.
I'm not.
Hey, don't try to derail my perfectly good derailment of this thread.
They can't win the SB with Batch, Dixon, or Leftwich.
That's all people can remember, 1 week at a time.It's great that Pittsburgh won in a blowout, but to somehow think that they won't need Ben R. to compete against the big team in the league is crazy.You can't win with only 1 good player on a football team, however, I think Ben is the most valuable by a little bit.
Fixed. Lots of disrespect for Big Ben's skills here, but that's been typical ever since he was a rookie. We Steeler fans know differently. We remember when Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Carnell Lake and Rod Woodson led us to several dominating wins like the ones we've seen this year so far. We had the most dominating defense in football for more than one year in the 90s. And we'd roll through the regular season. And then what happened?
You still feel Troy is more valuable to Pittsburgh than Big Ben?
Roethlisberger had an outstanding game considering, especially at the end of the game with the game on the line which is where he continues to shine. He just finds a way to win. That said Polamalu sack / forced fumble was absolutely HUGE.Both players are exceptional and come up big when needed. They are both great players and essential to the Steelers. I am cool with leaving it at that.
Big Ben is one tough mofo. It's not always pretty but he finds a way to win. The only two QB's I'd rather have starting a playoff game over him right now are Brees and Brady.He's a buffoon - repeatedly made a fool of himself off the field and maybe is growing up. Maybe.But the ridiculous getaway from Suggs is the perfect example.....and then the confidence to hit the RB across the middle on the blitz for the TD. You can't teach that.Troy looks to have toned his recklessness down a bit. A few less big plays but he is HEALTHY.It's a TIE. We need BOTH.Depending on what Rodgers does come playoff time I'd add him in the mix. He's impressive to watch.Big Ben is one tough mofo. It's not always pretty but he finds a way to win. The only two QB's I'd rather have starting a playoff game over him right now are Brees and Brady.
It's a bit early to include Rodgers, he has to prove it first but he certainly could be. But then, so could Matt Ryan. I don't know if there's a better O/D combo in the NFL right now than Ben/Troy. A few can be mentioned - AD/Allen, Ryan/Lofton? Boldin/Ray? hard to come up with any combo I'd prefer.He's a buffoon - repeatedly made a fool of himself off the field and maybe is growing up. Maybe.But the ridiculous getaway from Suggs is the perfect example.....and then the confidence to hit the RB across the middle on the blitz for the TD. You can't teach that.Troy looks to have toned his recklessness down a bit. A few less big plays but he is HEALTHY.It's a TIE. We need BOTH.Depending on what Rodgers does come playoff time I'd add him in the mix. He's impressive to watch.
Rodgers is up there but he's only played in one playoff game so far (although he was very impressive in it). As crazy as it sounds, I just trust Ben more right now.He's a buffoon - repeatedly made a fool of himself off the field and maybe is growing up. Maybe.But the ridiculous getaway from Suggs is the perfect example.....and then the confidence to hit the RB across the middle on the blitz for the TD. You can't teach that.Troy looks to have toned his recklessness down a bit. A few less big plays but he is HEALTHY.It's a TIE. We need BOTH.Depending on what Rodgers does come playoff time I'd add him in the mix. He's impressive to watch.Big Ben is one tough mofo. It's not always pretty but he finds a way to win. The only two QB's I'd rather have starting a playoff game over him right now are Brees and Brady.
I still think Troy is a better football player (though not by much) but I was and still am on the fence about which player is more valuable. It's close.
Ben stunk in the first half and was great in the second. That said, Troy's play won that game for them, plain and simple. It's splash plays like that that make it hard for me to say anyone is more valuable than Troy. He's a game changer.
Polamalu blew coverage on the TD pass and was invisible in the New England game. He has his off moments too.Ben's play in the 4th quarter, especially the scramble where was able to throw the ball away, saved the game as well. Without that we lose.
McFadden was suppose to be following Boldin but turned his head to watch Flacco which allows Boldin to change directions unnoticed.
Both McFadden and Polamalu were covering Boldin and both lost track of him in the endzone. After the game Polamalu said he was happy he was able to make the sack/fumble against Flacco because it was his fault Boldin was open in the endzone.McFadden was suppose to be following Boldin but turned his head to watch Flacco which allows Boldin to change directions unnoticed.
Mullets don't recognize political boundariesI think you are confusing Pittsburgh with West Virginia
Now you've really lost me. Drank a little too much cough syrup today Robo?Mullets don't recognize political boundariesI think you are confusing Pittsburgh with West Virginia
Now you've really lost me. Drank a little too much cough syrup today Robo?Mullets don't recognize political boundaries
You know... Pittsburgh is only an hour or something drive away from WV in multiple directions. It's in the mountains. A good deal of ruralness surrounds the city, it's not like we are talking about LA here. I went to Pittsburgh. Saw a bunch of mullets. It was like the capitol of NASCAR there. It was odd, since even otherwise civilized people had mullets. Maybe they were trying to get a discount at the local zoo or something. Who knows? All I do know is that you guys have a ####load of mullets, per capita.but yeah, I did drink alot of cough syrup
