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But what does struggling in the first half of the season say? There are two sides to it and I don't think it's fair to just pick the one that supports one's opinion only. He had a great final six games when it mattered by why wasn't he as good when the games didn't matter as much?
Odd indeed. Yet sports are odd and the loses were on the team while the streak, well, that fell clearly on his shoulders, if one wants to believe. Again, I am not going to pursue defending this narrative as it will appear I am pushing the narrative. I think this year belongs to Ryan. I simply wanted to see the argument made not from unusual combinations of stats in a forced manner but in a context explanation..
Did they have the worst situation though? I know it was bad but was it as bad as some make it to be. I still don't understand why they didn't just stick with Montgomery earlier when it seemed the public new he was the best option.
That seems odd. The 4-6 part of the season was the team's fault but the 6-0 part was all because of Rodgers? I'm not sure it works that way.
Takes a young team time to find their way? Also, if Rodgers first half was as bad as is being sold by some his cumulative stats would be no were near as close to Ryan's as they are. His play was not fairly analyzed. Writers and Analysts wanted a hot takes for their own glorification and they pushed a narrative that was not necessarily reflective of play. Small sample size variability joined with small minds, ambitious for attention.
It might when he played as well as he did in those 6 games.
Yes, it was.
I'm not sure anyone is saying his first half of the season was bad, it just wasn't up to par with an MVP season or even a typical Rodgers season. People were thinking something was off with him and the team those first 10 games. He still put up good stats because he's a great QB but it didn't look like MVP type play. His final 6 games were that of an MVP and that's why he's in the discussion. The reason why many don't have him as the top MVP is because of those first 10 games though because they are looking at the total season and not just a section of the season. This is how I am looking at it at least.
But Ryan did have one of the great seasons in NFL history, hence the award for MVP.
As I have said, I was never arguing against that. I merely thought the devil's advocate position that some were espousing, and some apparently bought, was not being made as well as I thought it could be made. Myself, I am swayed more or less by the position Anarchy 99 and others have taken. (Essentially your position).
Statistcally. Need to add that
This is not at all correct though. We have no idea who is more important to their team because we didn't see them play without them. The exception was Brady and we saw the Pats go 3-1 with a second and third string QB. That tells me the Patriots are still good overall even without Brady.
One could also look at that and see a very well coached team with a great game plan that doesn't need to throw all over the place and force throws than can lead to more TOs. One may think that since the team as a whole is so good that the QB can be very conservative which means he doesn't put up huge numbers but also doesn't turn the ball over.
28-2. Not 10-2. Lol at conservative getting 28-2.
Well, it actually is more valuable to be playing great heading into the playoffs than it is to be playing great week 1. So maybe.
Nelson has three seasons with 13+ TDs; Jones has never scored more than 10. They are equally productive per target in terms of yardage and Nelson produces many more TDs per target.
That is indeed the nature of narratives. Still, I think narratives can be as enlightening as old fashioned, pre-analytic stats. The arguments may appear less objective since one cannot argue numbers on a page are not the number, though those of more subtle appreciation of the game will certainly concede that numbers do not tell the whole story, sports in general, and football is about more than the numbers. Me, I fell in love with the narratives of the game, the stories, the voice of John Facenda, not with box scores from teams not necessarily similarly situated to each other. In the end, however, I recognize there is a definition for the award, not written in ink, but written in custom, and that custom gives great deference and regard to outstanding statistical performance on teams with top records.
Good thread for the following comment:CalBear said:
Yeah I would agree. But then you have to look at WHY the comebacks were necessary. If a guy plays like garbage for 3 and a half quarters then pulls a Tebow-esque comeback, well, that isn't the same as a 42-40 comeback where a QB was playing very well before the comeback. Also, a QB gets a comeback credited to them if a RB takes it 80 yards to the house for the win, or on a screen or whatever.FUBAR said:
My guess is most voters use whatever basis they want to confirm their own predisposition.
Yeah. Solid. Not special.CalBear said:
I'm not struggling at all. I'm suggesting that the Falcons weren't special this year due to Matt Ryan. It was mostly due to other factors - like scheme, coaching, RB talent, etc.Hawkeye21 said:
So the Packers and Patriots were not successful due to other factors like scheme, coaching, RB talent, etc...
Yep, that is basically what he is saying, seeing as how he has Ryan as just a shade behind a couple guys in the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER race.
I realize I am just picking out one sentence from a large post, but there is quite a bit here that is just wrong. I would say it is safe to say a seasoned vet MVP caliber QB like these guys has a lot to do with the running game, play calling, system, and scheme.
I was referencing others in this thread that immediately picked apart reasons why someone should lose points in the MVP discussion. I have been pushing the narrative that you mentioned all along. IMO, a QB that audibles out of a pass to a run to extend a drive is helping his team more than the QB that might take a sack to get knocked out of FG range, throw an ill advised pass that could get picked off, or stop the clock and allow the opposition one more chance to score. I realize these are extreme examples, and they might only come into play a few times a year in terms of wins or losses. But they do. One bad decision can cost your team a game (a la Matt Ryan and the Eric Berry pick two to lose against Kansas City, going from winning to losing on an extra point).
No, not really. Rather, it means the Falcons would suffer the loss of Ryan less than the Packers would suffer the loss of Rodgers. Assuming a similar replacement QB.
I know, but he was saying that YOU were making it seem like Ryan is pretty much average and that the Falcons would be just fine without him.
In his entire career, Julio Jones has led his own team outright in TDs only twice (2012 and 2015). This year, some guy named Taylor Gabriel, who was cut by Cleveland, had more TDs than Jones.
Rodgers is a better QB than Ryan, and that is what has allowed Jordy Nelson to rival Julio in the statistical department. Julio is a better WR than Nelson.
Until this year. This year, he was special. Certainly if Rivers or Roethlisberger had a season like this one they'd be MVP candidates, especially if the two other best candidates had a slow start and poorer stats (Rodgers) or were suspended for four games (Brady).
If Julio were a better WR than Nelson, he'd also be a better WR than Taylor Gabriel, who scored as many TDs as him this year. He has not been a dominant scorer relative to other receivers on his own team.
So gabriel is better than Julio?
You're right that he doesn't score many TDs. But when over the past 4 years, Jullio had averaged 109 yards receiving per game - 12 more than Antonio Brown, 25 yards more than Nelson's best 4 years (removing Nelson's down 2012 but including his 2011). maybe there's more to "how good this wr is" than scoring TDs.
