Why didn't Marino go to more superbowls? (1 Viewer)

[thehoch]

I went to a lot of Fin games as a kid......the Dolphins owner was Joe Robbie.....one of the cheapest men to ever own a sports franchise.

He's the reason Marino didn't ever get a ring. He never stepped up to bring in any free agents who could have assisted Marino like other teams did during that era.

That's why....

 

[Tito the Builder]

Why didn't Marino go to more superbowls?

Becease Gods elect for him something other.

 

[Insomniac]

He was overrated

No he wasn't, lol. The reason he didn't go to more Super Bowls is the same reason Peyton Manning didn't go to more Super Bowls with Indy. Their teams stock piled weapons on offense but never really addressed the defense and in Miami's case add the running game to the mix in addition to the defense.next.

He was a great QB, but he was imho a wee bit overrated for the very reasons\excuses you list for their failure to win championships. Neither were as good as their inflated regular season statistics might suggest and neither were\are as bad as their playoff futility would indicate. Yep, a good part of the reason for their playoff failures was their teams primary focus being on offense, but it was (in part) that very same focus that paved the way for them to produce over inflated regular season stats.

He has never been overrated, in fact he has always been criticized for his lack of championships and championship appearances.If you are implying that Marino's stats were inflated I suspect you didn't watch much football in the 80's. The game was different then and every bit of Marino's skill set would flourish in todays game. The only thing he lack was mobility but his decision making and quick release more than made up for that. His accuracy is on par with the leagues best today as well.

Exactly, I don't even bother trying to argue with people that say Marino is overrated or wasn't that great because "he" didn't win Championships. QB's get too much praise when they win and too much blame when they lose. They are usually the most important part of the team, but it is still a team effort. How many games did Marino lose when he put 28+ points up, I am sure the number is staggering. Then he has to see a QB like Dilfer luck out and win a SB because his defense was one of the best ever. Marino is easily one of the best to ever play the game.

If anything at this point Marino is underrated, at least by fans under the age of 40. He wasn't without advantages in his teammates though. He had great pass blocking for most of his career. He just didn't get sacked often despite all the PAs. That wasn't entirely the line either. He got rid of the ball quick.

Winning championships is a factor to consider when evaluating QBs but it's just part of the discussion.

BTW it looks like the Dolphins lost 19 Marino starts when they scored 28+ points. I checked Favre for a comparison and his teams only lost 9 games where they scored 28+

 

[aerolaw]

Unlike many elite QBs, Marino started out on an already built elite team. After Greise's 1979 retirement, Shula went 8-8 in 1980 -- a rebuilding year behind the burgeoning "Killer Bs" defense. In '81, the Killer B's matured, added a few key components (Brudzinski, Lyle Blackwood) and turned the Dolphins into an 11-win squad.

Without looking it up, I believe the Dolphins were either the #1 or #2 AFC playoff seed for five straight seasons (1981-85) with two AFC titles (1982, 1984). With the Killer Bs still at the height of their abilities, Marino took over for a hurt & ineffective David Woodley during the fifth game of the 1983 season and went 7-2 as a starter in the subsequent nine games.

On those solid early 80s Dolphins teams, they actually had a credible "Thunder and Lightning" rushing attack with Tony Nathan and Andra Franklin. Marino stepped into a great situation with one of the AFC's top teams.

The Dolphins did lay some playoff eggs to be sure. To end Marino's rookie year, the Dolphins turned the ball over five times (two Marino INTs) and lost in Miami to an green Seattle team that had to travel cross-country. And then, in January 1986 with a third AFC title in four years on the line, the home-standing Dolphins turned the ball over SIX times to a good-not-great Patriots squad. Recall that the Dolphins were the Bears lone 1985 loss (albeit in Miami) and also recall the shellacking Chicago put on New England in SB XX -- a missed opportunity for Marino to be sure.

Meanwhile, starting in the 1984 off-season, a few wheels started to fall off. Defensive coordinator par excellence Bill Arnsparger left Shula's staff to coach LSU. Promising running back David Overstreet died in an auto accident shortly before 1984's training camp, robbing the Dolphins of Nathan's successor after the draft. The Dolphins traded for LB Hugh Green in 1985, taking a gamble that Green was fully recovered from a facial fracture suffered during a 1984 car accident. Green did start for the Dolphins for several seasons, but was not the force he was with the Buccaneers before the accident.

By the beginning of the 1986 season, the remains of the Killer B defense had either moved on, gotten old, or gotten hurt. The Dolphins gave up 30+ points in four of the first five games that season, including 50+ twice. While the Dolphins offense still led the NFL in scoring, the defense was 26th in points allowed (after finishing 7th in 1984 and 12th in 1985). 1986 was Marino's last season with a credible rushing thread (Lorenzo Hampton's career year - 1276 yfs, 12 TDs). But by that season, "Chuck Studley" (Arnsparger's replacement) had become dirty words in Miami.

The Dolphins wouldn't surpass 8 wins again until 1990 -- just in time for the Bills fresh new juggernaut to slap them out of the playoffs in freezing Buffalo. Buffalo would repeat the favor in the 1992 playoffs. Shula had built the Dolphins defense back to respectability by this time behind guys like John Offerdahl, Louis Oliver, Tim McKyer, and Bryan Cox. The Dolphins offense force-fed running backs like Sammie Smith and Mark Higgs, but could never sniff 4 ypc. So opponents were able to mitigate the Dolphins' passing game, especially as guys like Mark Duper and Mark Clayton started aging (yep, they were still starting).

So when you start breaking down the first decade or so of Marino's career, it's not hard to tell the story of Miami's lack of playoff success season-by-season. After that, the Dolphins went to the playoffs five more times between 1994-99 (Marino last seasons), but never got out of the divisional round. There were a few Dolphins wild card teams in there coming out of a weakening AFC East. I don't think those late 90s Dolphins teams were anywhere near as good as the early-80s Dolphins teams. Or even the 1990-92 teams.

Doug, great rundown in a nutshell, and also great catch on David Overstreet, who they signed out of the Canadian league, was looking like he would be a pro bowl RB. You may have forgotten this too, Larry Gordon, ascending to be one of the best lb's in football, died around the same time as Overstreet while jogging in the off season. These were 2 pro bowl caliber players entering their prime...imagine if Marino had them both during his first 5 years in the league...the running game and the defense would have been so much better. They were also so unlucky with draft choices. John Bosa i still think would have been a beast but tore up his knee very early, Sammie Smith fumbled and then snorted his way out of the NFL and to prison, after being the 9th pick in the first round. Shula tried so desperately to find defense and a running game (pete Johnson, Chuck Muncie !!!), and as you mentioned Hugh Green.

Having sat in the 9th row on the 30 yard line for every one of Marinos' home games, there is no doubt that he was the best pure passer i ever saw, bar none...and i saw all of them in person. The accuracy, intensity, and smarts (clock play, anyone?) paralleled any one whoever played....of course in my opinion only...but i sat in the Velda Farms $1 kid section in the OB from 1967 until i could afford my own season tickets and honestly, i wouldnt have traded Marino for any other QB i ever saw. Just a once a generation player for us elders.

 

[Joe Mammy]

Marino was the greatest pure passer to play the game. He is hardly overrated.

Witnessed much of his magic too, I went to the first game in '66 at the ripe old age of 8 - dad got the tix for $4!

Don't forget the brilliant #1 draft pick of Eric Kumerow, who also happens to be the b-i-l of another #1 bust John Bosa.

 

[cvnpoka]

I think a big difference between Peyton in Marino is that Peyton struggled to win in the playoffs, whereas Marino struggled to win period. Marino had only four 12 win seasons and only 1 in his last 15 years. Peyton has already had 11.

As others have suggested, it really wasn't an era where you could just sling it around and make up for your team's deficiencies. Guys like Moon, Favre, and Bledsoe all struggled with this to an extent as well.

It's amazing how different the game was such a short time ago. Anyone that played Madden online back when it first started up (even that was in the early 2000's) probably remembers that lining up in a 5 WR set any time other than in a hail marry situation was considered cheese because that's just not how football was played.

run and shoot tho

 

[Riversco]

Teams are complex but there are two things that really increase your chances of winning:

1. Having a quality QB

2. Being able to hit the other team's QB.

Looking at the stats, the Marino-era Dolphins were plagued by an inability to pressure the QB, despite burning many high picks to try to fix that. Looks like they had the right plan but got extremely unlucky. Jason Taylor finally showed up as a dominant rush specialist as soon as Marino retired.

Just browsing the Dolphin's team history, in Mario's first two seasons (83 and 84) he had LB Doug Betters on defense that was hitting the other QB a lot. It looks like the Dolphins' defensive pressure starting tailing off in 1985 and then statistically became nonexistent for several years. It looks like they were Dan Marino and not much else. They were unable to fix pass rush in the draft. They drafted LB John Offerdahl in round 1 in 1986 and he was an all-pro but not a sack guy. They drafted a DE named John Bosa in the first round in 1987 but he didn't pan out. They drafted another DE in round 1 in 1988 in Eric Kumerow but he didn't do much either.

In 1990, Jeff Cross was a menace and hit opposing QBs. They finally had a pass rush again. That team went 12-4 but lost to the 13-3 Bills in the divisional round.

The pass rush vanished in 1991.

In 1992, the pass rush returned with Brian Cox and his 14 sacks. They went 11-5 and made the playoffs, only to lose to the 11-5 Bills again in the conference championship game.

In 1993, the pass rush looks like it was still strong with Jeff Cross getting 10.5 sacks. The Dolphins started 9-2 but lost Dan Marino for the season and lost their last 5 games, including a week 16 loss in OT to miss the playoffs. So this was the reverse problem where they had the pass rush but not the QB.

In 1994 they had Marino and the pass rush, went 10-6, made the playoffs, beat the Schottenheimer-era Chiefs in the wild card before losing at San Diego (who would eventually go to the super bowl).

In 1995, Marino had a down year and the pass rush was gone and they missing the playoffs.

In 1996, Jimmy Johnson came in. the pass rush was strong but Marino was mediocre and they went 8-8.

In 1997, the pass rush got weak, Marino was below average, and they were a running team. Went 9-7 and missed the playoffs.

In 1998, Marino was better, the pass rush was good, and they went 10-6 and won a playoff game.

In 1999, Marino was terrible and would hang it up.

In 2000, Jason Taylor began his dominant run as a pass rush specialist, unfortunately Marino was retired.

 

[IHEARTFF]

He has no right being mentioned in conversations with names such as Montana, Brady, Elway and belongs more in conversations with guys in the Drew Brees tier.

Ridiculously off base IMO.

People need to look at what Marino did in relation to the era he played in. When he was the first to go over 5,000 yards and threw 48 TDs in 1984 only 2 other QBs even threw for 4,000 yards and only 1 other QB had more than 28 TDs (32 being the 2nd highest). When Brees broke his yardage record nearly 20 years later there were 10 QBs with over 4,000 yards.

Marino is without a doubt a top 5 all time QB IMO and perhaps THE best pure passers the league has ever seen. As discussed above his lack of rings and Super Bowl appearances was due to a combination of things. A lot has to go right for teams to win Super Bowls and its unfortunate that Marino was never on a TEAM that was good enough to win it all.

One thing that needs to happen is that the QB needs to bring his game to the next level in the playoffs. Guys like Montana, Aikman and Brady have better stats almost across the board during the playoffs when they need to. Guys like Marino and Peyton have worse stats. Granted, QBs don't control everything, but they control enough that they should be held accountable when they aren't getting it done in the playoffs.

Brady's stats are worse across the board in the playoffs vs the regular season.

 

[Riversco]

If I put Bruce Smith on the Dolphins instead of the Bills, Marino probably wins multiple Super Bowls.

 

[NCCommish]

If I put Bruce Smith on the Dolphins instead of the Bills, Marino probably wins multiple Super Bowls.

Smith was number one that year. But the Dolphins could have had a difference maker. Kevin Greene wasn't taken until the 5th round.