Why do so many "Sharks" still play in snake drafts (1 Viewer)

[Anthony Borbely]

1) everyone has a shot at any player they want.

I've never played in an auction. I plan on it next year, and the above reason is the main reason why. That doesn't even count the strategies involved. Plus, I like variety in my leagues. I have been wanting to play in an auction, but my time was too limited this summer. But I'm going to get in one or two next year. I will say there is strategy in any format you play in.

 

[The Kansas Comet]

Why do I play in leagues with snake drafts? Because the majority of owners in them want it that way. I would like to go auction at least one year just for a change of pace, because I do like the idea of it being possible to get a player you want, but the majority of owners in the leagues in which I play don't. Still, I find the snake draft requires plenty of strategy as it is.

 

[cobalt_27]

Would you like another Perrier, snob?

Snake drafts are fun

Never said they weren't. Auctions are more fun.

Cobalt is accepting new members into the "whatever I say is right" club, you may want to think about joining.

Grow a spine.

 

[Sweat Hog]

But anyway, the snake holds two major advantages:1. Its more fun for most players.2. Its closer to on-demand entertainment than an auction. An auction means setting aside a special time to get everyone together and do it at once, which is not on-demand.

Okay - this is more what I was looking for to continue the discussion. Is it more fun because you've tried both and prefer the snake? And yes - generally speaking an auction requires all to attend in the same place or on the internet. Other than a "slow draft", what snake draft goes differently?I've seen several posts today and in other threads where people have resisted the change but then loved it once they tried the alternative. I am a convert to the auction and would say I was on the fence when our commish made the change but I would not go back and it seems to be the general consensus of those who've tried it. I guess what I am hoping for is that eventually, there is more attention paid to this style - so that at least it's a 50/50 split with regard to strategy discussions and articles. I find that I have to scour tons of sites just to find little bits of info here and there and would like to just have this one place where I must say, the knowledge and insight is outstanding.I get the dynasty thing and how an auction really would not work so great but I've never done a dynasty league - I think because the draft is my favorite part of FFL and with a Dynasty, all the good players are taken already.

 

[BroadwayG]

1) everyone has a shot at any player they want.

I've never played in an auction. I plan on it next year, and the above reason is the main reason why. That doesn't even count the strategies involved. Plus, I like variety in my leagues. I have been wanting to play in an auction, but my time was too limited this summer. But I'm going to get in one or two next year. I will say there is strategy in any format you play in.

I highly recommend getting into it.

 

[BGP]

Would you like another Perrier, snob?

Snake drafts are fun

Never said they weren't. Auctions are more fun.

Cobalt is accepting new members into the "whatever I say is right" club, you may want to think about joining.

Fantasy football is truly a free market for entertainment. There is no dictate determining the rules for how this game is played. Its going to gravitate towards the format that is the most fun. If the auction format held more entertainment value, the majority of leagues would adopt it. This is because there is no force opposing such a change. In other words, its pretty clear that the snake draft is more fun.

 

[bentley]

But anyway, the snake holds two major advantages:1. Its more fun for most players.2. Its closer to on-demand entertainment than an auction. An auction means setting aside a special time to get everyone together and do it at once, which is not on-demand.

Most I know that have actually done both would disagree with your first statement. I'd be curious what this is based on. I think auctions are loads more fun, but I'm also a big "live draft" fan.

 

[bentley]

Would you like another Perrier, snob?

Snake drafts are fun

Never said they weren't. Auctions are more fun.

Cobalt is accepting new members into the "whatever I say is right" club, you may want to think about joining.

Fantasy football is truly a free market for entertainment. There is no dictate determining the rules for how this game is played. Its going to gravitate towards the format that is the most fun. If the auction format held more entertainment value, the majority of leagues would adopt it. This is because there is no force opposing such a change. In other words, its pretty clear that the snake draft is more fun.

The majority have never experienced an auction. I'm guessing that the vast majority of leagues from a numbers sense are free autodraft leagues. Are you arguing that those are the most fun?

 

[Sleeper 43]

Auctions are by far a better format then snake drafts. It doesnt take much thought or planning to pick the best available player. With an auction draft you have to have be able to think on your feet. Every player is available in an auction draft. If you have the 8th pick in a snake draft you have no shot at LT.

I play in an auction with 12 teams and we have a 200 salary cap. Keeper players at a 10% increase from the previous year. This is by far the best league I have ever been in. I suggest everyone to give an auction draft a try. Its a longer draft but much more fun.

I dont think you put much thought or planning into making this comment. Unless your undefeated.... its not quite that simple.I'm not against auctions , and if the High Stakes guys were doing it , I'd look into it more.

Also I prefer Dynasty to keeper/redraft , which I have a valid argument could be more for the big boys than auction.

I think dividing your money up right through planning cant compare to an inaugural dynasty draft where after that 1 day, you only have rookie drafts to rebuild.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Play in a bunch of leagues. Some of each. Problem solved.

 

[BGP]

But anyway, the snake holds two major advantages:1. Its more fun for most players.2. Its closer to on-demand entertainment than an auction. An auction means setting aside a special time to get everyone together and do it at once, which is not on-demand.

Most I know that have actually done both would disagree with your first statement. I'd be curious what this is based on. I think auctions are loads more fun, but I'm also a big "live draft" fan.

The difference is you offered personal experience and anecdotal evidence. I applied free market principles to draw my conclusion. For example, if one hung out in the FFA all the time, they might begin to think atheism is pretty much normal and being religious is reserved for the kook fringe. But when you look at studies of the general population, you quickly come to realize it is the FFA that is on the fringe. I believe strongly in the free market. The market here is to have fun. The customers are going to gravitate to whatever offers the most fun. If auction format was the most fun, that would have swept over the pastime a long time ago.

 

[bentley]

But anyway, the snake holds two major advantages:1. Its more fun for most players.2. Its closer to on-demand entertainment than an auction. An auction means setting aside a special time to get everyone together and do it at once, which is not on-demand.

Most I know that have actually done both would disagree with your first statement. I'd be curious what this is based on. I think auctions are loads more fun, but I'm also a big "live draft" fan.

The difference is you offered personal experience and anecdotal evidence. I applied free market principles to draw my conclusion. For example, if one hung out in the FFA all the time, they might begin to think atheism is pretty much normal and being religious is reserved for the kook fringe. But when you look at studies of the general population, you quickly come to realize it is the FFA that is on the fringe.

How did you determine that "fun" was the driving factor behind the popularity of free/snake/autodraft leagues? Do you have any evidence to support this claim? From one Christian to another, wouldn't it make just as much sense to say that these type leagues are the most convenient?

 

[Mighty Ducks]

Duh - because not everyone in the leagues they play in wants to change to a more complex and time consuming format.

We have an owner griping about us not going to auction this year, yet he also supported the 1 a.m. draft start time because many of the owners work at night. I am NOT doing an auction that starts at 1 a.m.

SNOB

 

[BGP]

But anyway, the snake holds two major advantages:1. Its more fun for most players.2. Its closer to on-demand entertainment than an auction. An auction means setting aside a special time to get everyone together and do it at once, which is not on-demand.

Most I know that have actually done both would disagree with your first statement. I'd be curious what this is based on. I think auctions are loads more fun, but I'm also a big "live draft" fan.

The difference is you offered personal experience and anecdotal evidence. I applied free market principles to draw my conclusion. For example, if one hung out in the FFA all the time, they might begin to think atheism is pretty much normal and being religious is reserved for the kook fringe. But when you look at studies of the general population, you quickly come to realize it is the FFA that is on the fringe.

How did you determine that "fun" was the driving factor behind the popularity of free/snake/autodraft leagues? Do you have any evidence to support this claim? From one Christian to another, wouldn't it make just as much sense to say that these type leagues are the most convenient?

Ok. What do you think the primary driving factor is that motivates people to play fantasy football if it is not fun? You must have something else in mind. I tend to think people play games to have fun. Do you know lots of people who hate playing fantasy football but do it anyway for some other reason? And what reason is this?

 

[gianmarco]

But anyway, the snake holds two major advantages:

1. Its more fun for most players.

2. Its closer to on-demand entertainment than an auction. An auction means setting aside a special time to get everyone together and do it at once, which is not on-demand.

Okay - this is more what I was looking for to continue the discussion. Is it more fun because you've tried both and prefer the snake? And yes - generally speaking an auction requires all to attend in the same place or on the internet. Other than a "slow draft", what snake draft goes differently?

I've seen several posts today and in other threads where people have resisted the change but then loved it once they tried the alternative. I am a convert to the auction and would say I was on the fence when our commish made the change but I would not go back and it seems to be the general consensus of those who've tried it. I guess what I am hoping for is that eventually, there is more attention paid to this style - so that at least it's a 50/50 split with regard to strategy discussions and articles. I find that I have to scour tons of sites just to find little bits of info here and there and would like to just have this one place where I must say, the knowledge and insight is outstanding.

I get the dynasty thing and how an auction really would not work so great but I've never done a dynasty league - I think because the draft is my favorite part of FFL and with a Dynasty, all the good players are taken already.

So it would be ok if I called you out for not doing dynasty because dynasty requires more skill? I can tell you that since starting dynasty leagues, I would pick one of those over any league any day.

 

[bentley]

But anyway, the snake holds two major advantages:1. Its more fun for most players.2. Its closer to on-demand entertainment than an auction. An auction means setting aside a special time to get everyone together and do it at once, which is not on-demand.

Most I know that have actually done both would disagree with your first statement. I'd be curious what this is based on. I think auctions are loads more fun, but I'm also a big "live draft" fan.

The difference is you offered personal experience and anecdotal evidence. I applied free market principles to draw my conclusion. For example, if one hung out in the FFA all the time, they might begin to think atheism is pretty much normal and being religious is reserved for the kook fringe. But when you look at studies of the general population, you quickly come to realize it is the FFA that is on the fringe.

How did you determine that "fun" was the driving factor behind the popularity of free/snake/autodraft leagues? Do you have any evidence to support this claim? From one Christian to another, wouldn't it make just as much sense to say that these type leagues are the most convenient?

Ok. What do you think the primary driving factor is that motivates people to play fantasy football if it is not fun? You must have something else in mind. I tend to think people play games to have fun. Do you know lots of people who hate playing fantasy football but do it anyway for some other reason? And what reason is this?

I'm going to have to step back from my argument. Snake drafts probably are "fun" for most players. The majority of people in terms of numbers aren't the people having debates in the Shark Pool. They're folks who heard about it in the office, or saw it on Yahoo.com or ESPN and wanted to check this fantasy football thing out. An auction isn't going to work for them. To the point of the original thread, I would guess that more than half the experienced players that really put a lot of time into this would prefer an auction. But as you said, this doesn't define the general population.

 

[BigRed]

Not trying to dis the snake draft folks. pick the highest valued player then go play Madden for 15 minutes until your turn comes up again.

I'm a huge auction draft fan, but the this "snake drafts are for beginners" BS got old and lame the first time I heard it.

 

[Sweat Hog]

But anyway, the snake holds two major advantages:1. Its more fun for most players.2. Its closer to on-demand entertainment than an auction. An auction means setting aside a special time to get everyone together and do it at once, which is not on-demand.

Most I know that have actually done both would disagree with your first statement. I'd be curious what this is based on. I think auctions are loads more fun, but I'm also a big "live draft" fan.

The difference is you offered personal experience and anecdotal evidence. I applied free market principles to draw my conclusion. For example, if one hung out in the FFA all the time, they might begin to think atheism is pretty much normal and being religious is reserved for the kook fringe. But when you look at studies of the general population, you quickly come to realize it is the FFA that is on the fringe. I believe strongly in the free market. The market here is to have fun. The customers are going to gravitate to whatever offers the most fun. If auction format was the most fun, that would have swept over the pastime a long time ago.

IMO it's more to do with "easier" and "more familiar" than more fun. I enjoyed snake drafting but auctions are the better of the two. Still waiting to hear someone honestly say they tried auction and went back to snake drafting - not "doing both" but choosing snake exclusively after trying an auction.

 

[cobalt_27]

Not trying to dis the snake draft folks. pick the highest valued player then go play Madden for 15 minutes until your turn comes up again.

I'm a huge auction draft fan, but the this "snake drafts are for beginners" BS got old and lame the first time I heard it.

We've been running an auction in our league for the past 10 years, and we'll never go back to the serpentine format. But, that absolutely doesn't mean anything with regards to sophistication. It's just a personal preference.Remember, whatever I say is right, so this is not up for debate.

 

[Sweat Hog]

But anyway, the snake holds two major advantages:

1. Its more fun for most players.

2. Its closer to on-demand entertainment than an auction. An auction means setting aside a special time to get everyone together and do it at once, which is not on-demand.

Okay - this is more what I was looking for to continue the discussion. Is it more fun because you've tried both and prefer the snake? And yes - generally speaking an auction requires all to attend in the same place or on the internet. Other than a "slow draft", what snake draft goes differently?

I've seen several posts today and in other threads where people have resisted the change but then loved it once they tried the alternative. I am a convert to the auction and would say I was on the fence when our commish made the change but I would not go back and it seems to be the general consensus of those who've tried it. I guess what I am hoping for is that eventually, there is more attention paid to this style - so that at least it's a 50/50 split with regard to strategy discussions and articles. I find that I have to scour tons of sites just to find little bits of info here and there and would like to just have this one place where I must say, the knowledge and insight is outstanding.

I get the dynasty thing and how an auction really would not work so great but I've never done a dynasty league - I think because the draft is my favorite part of FFL and with a Dynasty, all the good players are taken already.

So it would be ok if I called you out for not doing dynasty because dynasty requires more skill? I can tell you that since starting dynasty leagues, I would pick one of those over any league any day.

Sure dawg - call me out. I didn't realize I was "calling anyone out". I stated in my original post I have done the snake for many years and have NO disrespect for those who stay with it. I don't think people who draft at auction are "superior" or more knowledgeable. I DO feel the auction is more fun, requires more strategy and provides a more level playing field.Never done a dynasty - as stated in the post you "called me out" on. I won't slam that style either. It may be my league's next progression for all I know. But from what I DO know, most players are kept for a number of years and for me this does not sound appealing because I like knowing that just because I didn't get LT last year doesn't mean I'll have to wait until he's in the twilight of his career and released by another owner. It seems like it would deflate the excitement of the draft. This is why when we went to a keeper it was severely limited to one player for one year. All this said, I think I'd like to try a dynasty sometime IN ADDITION to my beloved auction.

Peace out blood(or is that too 1990's)

 

[JBTV]

While multiple people early in the thread said they tried auction but prefer snake, I guess that went unnoticed, so I'll add my story. We were snake, tried an auction one year and didn't like it. Half the people in the league didn't get it, it took forever, and overall it wasn't that fun. We moved back to a snake draft the next year.

As for the "why isn't there more analysis about auctions, it's because probably over 90% of leagues in the country are snake. Sure it may be a better format for "sharks," but it's pretty useless information if your local or good money league don't want to play it.

 

[Varmint]

.... Half the people in the league didn't get it, ....

uh...sorry....

 

[Sweat Hog]

While multiple people early in the thread said they tried auction but prefer snake, I guess that went unnoticed, so I'll add my story. We were snake, tried an auction one year and didn't like it. Half the people in the league didn't get it, it took forever, and overall it wasn't that fun. We moved back to a snake draft the next year. As for the "why isn't there more analysis about auctions, it's because probably over 90% of leagues in the country are snake. Sure it may be a better format for "sharks," but it's pretty useless information if your local or good money league don't want to play it.

Ok, I get that. It's not the mainstream at this time for any number of reasons but I'd guess it's mostly because snake draft is easy to understand and prepare for and it's how this whole game started. Also, people naturally resist change - my league included. But THIS forum is probably 90% experienced, knowledgeable players who have played for years and it would seem like it should follow that the more in depth style of draft would be more appealing to those who are so into this hobby. The casual Yahoo or free ESPN users I completely get staying with the simpler form.Dynasty leagues are a small minority as are auctions apparently and yet this site is full of dynasty threads and articles. Care to tackle that one?

 

[Mighty Ducks]

Not trying to dis the snake draft folks. pick the highest valued player then go play Madden for 15 minutes until your turn comes up again.

I'm a huge auction draft fan, but the this "snake drafts are for beginners" BS got old and lame the first time I heard it.

We've been running an auction in our league for the past 10 years, and we'll never go back to the serpentine format. But, that absolutely doesn't mean anything with regards to sophistication. It's just a personal preference.Remember, whatever I say is right, so this is not up for debate.

Absolutely!

 

[Ice Cream Man]

The difference is you offered personal experience and anecdotal evidence. I applied free market principles to draw my conclusion. ... I believe strongly in the free market. The market here is to have fun. The customers are going to gravitate to whatever offers the most fun. If auction format was the most fun, that would have swept over the pastime a long time ago.

If you actually applied economic principles you would also be considering search/information costs. That is, people don't bother trying new products (or new methods, in this case) because they don't know about them. And in the case of FF, the draft has the first mover advantage, so to speak, because the hobby started that way. Thus, the end result speaks nothing to the superiority of the product chosen... only that it is costly for people to make the switch.. and so in many cases the switch does not get made. The thread here is, in a sense, seeking to lower those costs, and thus enabling the better product (method) to win out. You should be applauding this effort.. that is, if you actually believe what you're talking about.

 

[Daywalker]

In my main league which I've won 4-5 times in 13 years or so. About half the guys know what they are doing and the other half buy a mag a few days prior. No one other then myself would go to a message board like this. We've done both auction and drafts throughout the years.

I think it's easier to win a league like this because I get more and more value as each round goes by. Less-informed owners really start to blow after the midway point of a draft. I'm stacking up on bargains and sleepers at that point while they are drafting K. McCardell. When we've done the auction the bidding makes it harder for a guppy to make a big blunder outside of spending huge $ on two qb's or something like that. Plus an owner who is not up to date on the latest FF news but is a smart guy can save a bit of cash then key in on your late round $1-2 nominations.

With the amount of luck involved in FF I look for any edge I can get. The draft works better for me against the owners in my league. Do I take pride in beating up on a league like this? No. I just enjoy talking trash and kicking my buddies arses every year.

 

[Sleeper 43]

So maybe 16 man Dynasty with an inagural auction and snake format for all rookie drafts there after would be the Ultimate Challenge?

 

[coolnerd]

Play in a bunch of leagues. Some of each. Problem solved.

This is what I do. Auction is different, not better in my opinion.

 

[One]

I find that the staunchest defenders of the draft format are those are afraid to try, what they fear is, the complexity of the auction format. It's like forcing your kid to learn to drive a stickshift if she don't wanna learn it. They'll defend the automatic transmission as the best thing around....because they know it.I took...I mean...I DRAGGED my league into the auction format about six years ago.I say "dragged" and I mean...DRAGGED 'em...kicking and screaming!I had memebers threatening to quit. There was a move to oust me as Commissioner. They cried, #####ed, moaned, and whined about moving to the format because they didn't want to have to follow the "complexities" of it all. Fear was the #1 reason NOT to move it..."Don't fix it if it ain't broke" was the battle cry.I explained to them that I wasn't an elected official....I was a benevolent dictator. We were moving to the auction.Well, we did an auction and not one member of my 14-team league would go back to a draft if I tried to drag it back.

This happened to our baseball league in '97. I Love it. I've never tried it for football, but do I love every snake draft I've ever been in. I'd join an auction league if I can get an invite, but they seem kinda scarce. As of now there is no way any of the 3 FF leagues I do annually are gonna switch.

 

[Bandit]

I find that the staunchest defenders of the draft format are those are afraid to try, what they fear is, the complexity of the auction format. It's like forcing your kid to learn to drive a stickshift if she don't wanna learn it. They'll defend the automatic transmission as the best thing around....because they know it.I took...I mean...I DRAGGED my league into the auction format about six years ago.I say "dragged" and I mean...DRAGGED 'em...kicking and screaming!I had memebers threatening to quit. There was a move to oust me as Commissioner. They cried, #####ed, moaned, and whined about moving to the format because they didn't want to have to follow the "complexities" of it all. Fear was the #1 reason NOT to move it..."Don't fix it if it ain't broke" was the battle cry.I explained to them that I wasn't an elected official....I was a benevolent dictator. We were moving to the auction.Well, we did an auction and not one member of my 14-team league would go back to a draft if I tried to drag it back.

Getting my league to try an auction is like Roddy Piper trying to get that other guy to try on the sunglasses in the movie "They Live". I would have liked to force the auction like you did, but some of the guys would have quit. I even suggested that if it's not unanimous that the auction is better, then we would go back to the regular draft next year, but they still didn't go for it.I really like your manual vs automatic transmission analogy. Only a couple of guys in my league even know how to drive a stick (yes they are grown men). By and large, they are a bunch of girly-men with no backbones, whipped and afraid to stand up to their own wives on any disagreement. I guess this leads to a lifestyle where no thinking is involved, everything is planned out in advance for them, and they simply follow the same routine over and over, content to live out their pathetic lives without ever trying anything new until they die.Hmmm, the above paragraph seems rather harsh, but it's not intended to insult anyone who reads this message board. It only applies to my friends.

 

[RamMan]

I'm in a league that has had the same 10 owners for 7 years. We went auction 3 years ago and have never looked back. Yes, there was some resistance in the beginning but the strategy, level playing field, suspense, and dynamic nature of the auction draft has us all completely hooked. We would never go back to a snake. Every player nomination can be a wild ride and you better come to every draft prepared to adjust on the fly. While our league does indeed do a live draft (we have several owners who fly in from around the country) and there's nothing like having everyone in the same room, there are sites like Fantasyauctioneer.com that allow an auction draft to be conducted online (we did this the first year and it worked just fine).

BTW, I also enjoy snake drafts but I must say that I personally find auction drafts more challenging and, if everyone is in the same room, much more fun. However, I also recognize the incredible knowledge, perceptiveness, and intelligence of many of the posters on these FBGs boards who partake in snake drafts - so I can't say that auction leagues necessarily have smarter or better fantasy players. To each their own. However, I would highly recommend trying an auction draft if you haven't before. I really do think you'll end up enjoying it more.

 

[BGP]

But anyway, the snake holds two major advantages:1. Its more fun for most players.2. Its closer to on-demand entertainment than an auction. An auction means setting aside a special time to get everyone together and do it at once, which is not on-demand.

Most I know that have actually done both would disagree with your first statement. I'd be curious what this is based on. I think auctions are loads more fun, but I'm also a big "live draft" fan.

The difference is you offered personal experience and anecdotal evidence. I applied free market principles to draw my conclusion. For example, if one hung out in the FFA all the time, they might begin to think atheism is pretty much normal and being religious is reserved for the kook fringe. But when you look at studies of the general population, you quickly come to realize it is the FFA that is on the fringe.

How did you determine that "fun" was the driving factor behind the popularity of free/snake/autodraft leagues? Do you have any evidence to support this claim? From one Christian to another, wouldn't it make just as much sense to say that these type leagues are the most convenient?

Ok. What do you think the primary driving factor is that motivates people to play fantasy football if it is not fun? You must have something else in mind. I tend to think people play games to have fun. Do you know lots of people who hate playing fantasy football but do it anyway for some other reason? And what reason is this?

I'm going to have to step back from my argument. Snake drafts probably are "fun" for most players. The majority of people in terms of numbers aren't the people having debates in the Shark Pool. They're folks who heard about it in the office, or saw it on Yahoo.com or ESPN and wanted to check this fantasy football thing out. An auction isn't going to work for them. To the point of the original thread, I would guess that more than half the experienced players that really put a lot of time into this would prefer an auction. But as you said, this doesn't define the general population.

Correct. That gets back to my point earlier about the game being "on-demand". People don't want fantasy football to interfere with their lives by, for example, scheduling a draft day meeting and running an auction. A slow snake draft, done online, is much closer to on-demand content. And that's what most want. Something to have a little fun with that doesn't ask them to make sacrifices.

 

[Alwazefun]

First let me start by saying snake drafts definitely have their place ... If you are in a live league where getting together and drinking with your buddies is as important(or more important) then the actual playing of fantasy football then snake drafts are definitely the way to go. There is nothing wrong with this, in fact I am all for hanging out with my friends, playing some FF(with a snake draft) , and getting drunk ... snake drafts are more alcohol friendly then auctions.... Also a snake draft is also more feasible for a work league. Many employers go so far as to ban FF alltogether so the less obtrusive the better in this setting.Now that we have gotten that out of the way let me say I have wondered the same thing as the original poster "Why aren't auctions the norm"... and have noticed that whenever someone questions the snake draft some people get very defensive, almost like you have said something sacreligious. I have yet to hear a legitimate reason as to why auctions are not the norm among those serious about FF. The main reasons that I hear stated over and over again by the staunch defenders of the snake draft are:1) It's more fun.- Alot of the people claiming snake drafts are more fun havent tried auctions, so those people can not know if it is "more fun"2) They dont have time to do an auction, takes too long ...- You can do a slow auction as well, where a players is bid on for a day or more beofre the winner is determined.Varmint hit the nail on the head:

I find that the staunchest defenders of the draft format are those are afraid to try, what they fear is, the complexity of the auction format. It's like forcing your kid to learn to drive a stickshift if she don't wanna learn it. They'll defend the automatic transmission as the best thing around....because they know it.

Most people that frequent this board(as well as others) would consider Fantasy Football more then a "fun diversion" while watching football games on Sundays ... I would bet most consider it a hobby. Most people who take their hobbies seriously tend to gradually a deeper immersion in there chosen hobbies. People who choose the hobby of cooking dont cook just cook hamburgers, they move on to more complex dishes. People who build models as a hobby eventually move past "snap together" models, craving more complex models with more detail. I believe the original poster had people who consider fantasy football a hobby in mind when he posed the question. If you do not consider fantasy football a hobby then this thread probably doesnt pertain to you ... If however you consider FF a hobby then you should be looking for leagues that get you more involved in your chosen hobby ... which auctions do. Anyone who thinks snake drafts require the same amount of preparation, strategy; as well as add as much depth and complexity to Fantasy Football as auction drafts are lying to themselves.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Because I only play dynasty leagues these days. And auctioning rookies doesn't make any sense.

 

[Alwazefun]

Because I only play dynasty leagues these days. And auctioning rookies doesn't make any sense.

I play mainly dynasties as well. I especially prefer auctions in the dynasty format, I do not like random draft position to be a major determining factor in which players I am going to have for years to come. All the dynasties I play in use the auction format for the initial draft and free agents ... rookies are done with an NFL style draft(not a snake draft). This way you can still trade both players and draft picks or a combination of both.

 

[Varmint]

I find that the staunchest defenders of the draft format are those are afraid to try, what they fear is, the complexity of the auction format. It's like forcing your kid to learn to drive a stickshift if she don't wanna learn it. They'll defend the automatic transmission as the best thing around....because they know it.

I took...I mean...I DRAGGED my league into the auction format about six years ago.

I say "dragged" and I mean...DRAGGED 'em...kicking and screaming!

I had memebers threatening to quit. There was a move to oust me as Commissioner. They cried, #####ed, moaned, and whined about moving to the format because they didn't want to have to follow the "complexities" of it all.

Fear was the #1 reason NOT to move it...

"Don't fix it if it ain't broke" was the battle cry.

I explained to them that I wasn't an elected official....I was a benevolent dictator. We were moving to the auction.

Well, we did an auction and not one member of my 14-team league would go back to a draft if I tried to drag it back.

Getting my league to try an auction is like Roddy Piper trying to get that other guy to try on the sunglasses in the movie "They Live". I would have liked to force the auction like you did, but some of the guys would have quit. I even suggested that if it's not unanimous that the auction is better, then we would go back to the regular draft next year, but they still didn't go for it.I really like your manual vs automatic transmission analogy. Only a couple of guys in my league even know how to drive a stick (yes they are grown men). By and large, they are a bunch of girly-men with no backbones, whipped and afraid to stand up to their own wives on any disagreement. I guess this leads to a lifestyle where no thinking is involved, everything is planned out in advance for them, and they simply follow the same routine over and over, content to live out their pathetic lives without ever trying anything new until they die.

Hmmm, the above paragraph seems rather harsh, but it's not intended to insult anyone who reads this message board. It only applies to my friends.

Bandit...I finally got everyone on board by offering this solution:Our draft has been (and still is) held on the Saturday of the Labor Day Weekend.

At the time, all of our owners lived in town....so...I was able to offer a compromise.

We would hold an auction the week before the regularly scheduled draft and THEN I'd stand by a league vote as to what format to follow the following weekend.

Everyone...and I do mean EVERYONE was so stoked about their team, we kept the results of the "practice auction".

Why were they so happy about their teams?

Beacause they actually BID on their players. They didn't just "pick up" the players that were left for them by the guy picking in front of them. They fought for most of their players and didn't want to give up those players that they obtained in a bidding war!

Granted...that first auction was "lame" by later standards....ie...some owners left money on the table while others shot their wad early but now, our memebers are auction veterans. While shooting your wad early is not a problem...leaving money on the table is a cardinal sin.....Compared to that first attempt...we've all become "auction studs"

...at least in OUR minds anyway!

 

[BroadwayG]

My auction is tonight. I'll report back.



We got ours started about 8 years ago. It was basically a cheap $20 spinoff league, just for kicks, to entice the less enthusiastic into joining.

 

[bigfoamfinger]

I play in two leagues that are not quite full fledge dynasty, but folks are allowed to keep between 6-9 of their 20 players depending on where they finished. We due hold a snake draft after the NFL draft for rookies, only two rounds and the rookies have dollar values assigned to them based on position, but they do not count toward the draft salary cap. They are assigned for keeper purposes the following year. All un-drafted rookies and players not under contract are then auctioned off during the draft.

I like the dollar values because it really makes you think more. It is not just do I want to pay this for that player, but more the following years. Do I want to commit to this player and give him a contract. That contract is fully binding and even if the guy sucks, you still pay the contract. That is great when someone begins the draft with their keeper salary and the $45 dollars for an injured former Pro-bowl running back that is going to miss the year. It happened with TD, Faulk and Holmes; actually TD was carried two years in a row without any production, GREAT STUFF FOR THE OTHER OWNERS.

I understand that folks say a snake draft allows those less prepared to do well because they just pick who is next on the list, well that is also true in auctions. We have two owners in the league that will typically have tons of money left towards the end of the draft and then begin to bid and win players that a few of us in the league are bidding on. I remember one year I was bidding against someone for Robert Smith of the Vikings the year he finally stayed healthy, it was toward the end of the draft and neither of us had tons of money left. Well, this guy bids $5 more than either of us had left, another smart move, and wins Robert Smith. The next thing out of his mouth is, “Great, what position does he play?” Is that any different than drafting off the list?

I think they each have advantages and disadvantages. I have down both the snake and the auction in all types of fantasy and I really prefer the auction so much better. That is my personal preference and I was actually able to convince one of my leagues to convert to an auction draft. That required some work to determine keeper salaries, but we figured it out.

 

[BigBetz]

I think you should try to get owners of the NFL to go auction. They can get rid of the draft and do an auction. That way ALL teams have a chance at the "best" player and can pay a small amount to others... Sorry dude, serpentine drafts aren't going away. I have never done an auction and would give it a try but the guys in my league love the snake draft. They like trying to figure out which owner is going to take which player and adjust their rankings/plan. I am not putting down auctions because I am sure they are fun too but as I said, serpentine drafts are not going away... Good luck this year!

 

[Anthony Borbely]

If the league or leagues you are currently in will not do an auction, why not play in another league with other owners who face the same problem?

Like I said earlier, I have never played in an auction. I really wanted to this year, but lacked the time to learn about them. I am definitely going to play at least one next year. I can't wait to be honest.

I play in several league, and my dynasty leagues are my favorites, especially the deep IDP dynasty leagues. But I also play in a few redrafts every year, plus some survivor leagues. I don't think there is any right or wrong way to play. I just play in multiple leagues so I can get the best of all worlds/formats.

I like variety, and I will add auctions to that next year.

 

[Wilbur Wood]

Auctions are by far a better format then snake drafts. It doesnt take much thought or planning to pick the best available player. With an auction draft you have to have be able to think on your feet. Every player is available in an auction draft. If you have the 8th pick in a snake draft you have no shot at LT. I play in an auction with 12 teams and we have a 200 salary cap. Keeper players at a 10% increase from the previous year. This is by far the best league I have ever been in. I suggest everyone to give an auction draft a try. Its a longer draft but much more fun.

Key words, "salary cap". Has no place in fantasy football imo. Each to their own, but I will slam it every chance I get, and I will never play in a salary cap league. I definitely don't want fantasy football to turn into fantasy baseball. If I had to guess, I would guess that salary cap fantasy football was created by a fantasy baseball guy.

I'm not sure that you even understand what an "auction" draft is since you use the term interchangeabley with "salary cap" in a keeper context.I play in all formats, both football and baseball -- auction, serp draft, redraft, keeper, dynasty. They all have their virtues.My takeaways:#1 For a pure redraft (football or baseball), which I generally still do 2 or 3 per year in each sport, an auction is a much better draft format than a serp draft and requires more skill. The auction $$ soley are applicable as money to spend at the draft and do not serve as any "in-season" salary cap. After the draft these leagues work just like a serp draft league no difference. However, serp leagues, especially in football almost become pre-programmed (thus requiring not a lot of thought) --- Geez. I have the 1.09 pick I'm going to take either Parker or Henry in the 1st and S. Smith in the 2nd, etc., etc. The 1.01 guy is awarded LT on a coin flip vs making the real hard decision to spend ~ 45% of your auction $$ if you really want LT. #2 For Keepers, depending upon the format (keep 1 or a lot), the auction loses its advantage a bit.#3 Dynasty leagues, a draft is probably a better format.#4 Also, most auction leaguegs are "in person" and LIVE. A big advantage in my opinion. Most around here seem to live for the anonymous internet leagues that are forced to live with serp drafts for the most part.

 

[roadkill1292]

I think you should try to get owners of the NFL to go auction. They can get rid of the draft and do an auction. That way ALL teams have a chance at the "best" player and can pay a small amount to others...

Yes. YES! Oh, wait. You were ridiculing this idea, weren't you?

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Because I only play dynasty leagues these days. And auctioning rookies doesn't make any sense.

I play mainly dynasties as well. I especially prefer auctions in the dynasty format, I do not like random draft position to be a major determining factor in which players I am going to have for years to come. All the dynasties I play in use the auction format for the initial draft and free agents ... rookies are done with an NFL style draft(not a snake draft). This way you can still trade both players and draft picks or a combination of both.

NFL style is what mine do too - and there are no free agent drafts, etc. We use tight salary caps as well, so players aren't determined by draft order so much as by who breaks out the year before. Players with high production are extremely expensive the next year.

 

[JohnnyU]

Auctions are by far a better format then snake drafts. It doesnt take much thought or planning to pick the best available player. With an auction draft you have to have be able to think on your feet. Every player is available in an auction draft. If you have the 8th pick in a snake draft you have no shot at LT. I play in an auction with 12 teams and we have a 200 salary cap. Keeper players at a 10% increase from the previous year. This is by far the best league I have ever been in. I suggest everyone to give an auction draft a try. Its a longer draft but much more fun.

Key words, "salary cap". Has no place in fantasy football imo. Each to their own, but I will slam it every chance I get, and I will never play in a salary cap league. I definitely don't want fantasy football to turn into fantasy baseball. If I had to guess, I would guess that salary cap fantasy football was created by a fantasy baseball guy.

I'm not sure that you even understand what an "auction" draft is since you use the term interchangeabley with "salary cap" in a keeper context.I play in all formats, both football and baseball -- auction, serp draft, redraft, keeper, dynasty. They all have their virtues.My takeaways:#1 For a pure redraft (football or baseball), which I generally still do 2 or 3 per year in each sport, an auction is a much better draft format than a serp draft and requires more skill. The auction $$ soley are applicable as money to spend at the draft and do not serve as any "in-season" salary cap. After the draft these leagues work just like a serp draft league no difference. However, serp leagues, especially in football almost become pre-programmed (thus requiring not a lot of thought) --- Geez. I have the 1.09 pick I'm going to take either Parker or Henry in the 1st and S. Smith in the 2nd, etc., etc. The 1.01 guy is awarded LT on a coin flip vs making the real hard decision to spend ~ 45% of your auction $$ if you really want LT. #2 For Keepers, depending upon the format (keep 1 or a lot), the auction loses its advantage a bit.#3 Dynasty leagues, a draft is probably a better format.#4 Also, most auction leaguegs are "in person" and LIVE. A big advantage in my opinion. Most around here seem to live for the anonymous internet leagues that are forced to live with serp drafts for the most part.

I guess I'm just ignorant. I thought most auctions were salary cap leagues. Shows how much I know, lol. I only play in dynasty leagues that have a rookie draft. Thanks for the education.

 

[Pythagoras]

I get the dynasty thing and how an auction really would not work so great but I've never done a dynasty league - I think because the draft is my favorite part of FFL and with a Dynasty, all the good players are taken already.

Actually an auction draft is better suited to a Dynasty League than the regular serpentine draft. Dynasty Leagues are all about getting your favorite players and holding on to them for multiple years. If your draft is serpentine, it's a crap shoot if your favorite player will be available. The problem I have with keeper/dynasty leagues not using an auction is that player turnover is oppressively low. You're basically stuck with the team you have year after year, with the exception of rookies and the occasional trade. In an auction league with a salary cap mid and top tier players our routinely recycled if their production diminishes relative to their salary. The turnover is just enough to keep all teams competitive every year.For rookie drafts we assign a $ value to each round and use the reverse finish order (not serpentine), to help out the bottom teams and retain some of the flavor of a traditional draft.I agree that auction isn't good unless everyone is present, but you shouldn't have a dynasty league if you can't get the same owners together every year anyway. I also think you end up with less trading, but only because everyone already gets the players they want. When there is a trade it's tough for them to not be fair because the owners have to still manage the salaries as well.

 

[Alwazefun]

I think you should try to get owners of the NFL to go auction. They can get rid of the draft and do an auction. That way ALL teams have a chance at the "best" player and can pay a small amount to others...

I can't believe people keep making the lame "the real NFL would never do an auction" argument when defending snake drafts. The NFL does have an auction of sorts already, its called Free Agency. As far as rookies go most auction leagues still have an NFL style rookie draft.Come on people take the "snake draft blinders" off. Its good for things to evolve!

 

[Bandit]

I find that the staunchest defenders of the draft format are those are afraid to try, what they fear is, the complexity of the auction format. It's like forcing your kid to learn to drive a stickshift if she don't wanna learn it. They'll defend the automatic transmission as the best thing around....because they know it.

I took...I mean...I DRAGGED my league into the auction format about six years ago.

I say "dragged" and I mean...DRAGGED 'em...kicking and screaming!

I had memebers threatening to quit. There was a move to oust me as Commissioner. They cried, #####ed, moaned, and whined about moving to the format because they didn't want to have to follow the "complexities" of it all.

Fear was the #1 reason NOT to move it...

"Don't fix it if it ain't broke" was the battle cry.

I explained to them that I wasn't an elected official....I was a benevolent dictator. We were moving to the auction.

Well, we did an auction and not one member of my 14-team league would go back to a draft if I tried to drag it back.

Getting my league to try an auction is like Roddy Piper trying to get that other guy to try on the sunglasses in the movie "They Live". I would have liked to force the auction like you did, but some of the guys would have quit. I even suggested that if it's not unanimous that the auction is better, then we would go back to the regular draft next year, but they still didn't go for it.I really like your manual vs automatic transmission analogy. Only a couple of guys in my league even know how to drive a stick (yes they are grown men). By and large, they are a bunch of girly-men with no backbones, whipped and afraid to stand up to their own wives on any disagreement. I guess this leads to a lifestyle where no thinking is involved, everything is planned out in advance for them, and they simply follow the same routine over and over, content to live out their pathetic lives without ever trying anything new until they die.

Hmmm, the above paragraph seems rather harsh, but it's not intended to insult anyone who reads this message board. It only applies to my friends.

Bandit...I finally got everyone on board by offering this solution:Our draft has been (and still is) held on the Saturday of the Labor Day Weekend.

At the time, all of our owners lived in town....so...I was able to offer a compromise.

We would hold an auction the week before the regularly scheduled draft and THEN I'd stand by a league vote as to what format to follow the following weekend.

Everyone...and I do mean EVERYONE was so stoked about their team, we kept the results of the "practice auction".

Why were they so happy about their teams?

Beacause they actually BID on their players. They didn't just "pick up" the players that were left for them by the guy picking in front of them. They fought for most of their players and didn't want to give up those players that they obtained in a bidding war!

Granted...that first auction was "lame" by later standards....ie...some owners left money on the table while others shot their wad early but now, our memebers are auction veterans. While shooting your wad early is not a problem...leaving money on the table is a cardinal sin.....Compared to that first attempt...we've all become "auction studs"

...at least in OUR minds anyway!

Thanks, Varmint! That's a great idea, I'm going to try it in my league. Unfortunately, I'll have to try it next year because I already conceded that it would be a draft this year.

 

[bentley]

I think you should try to get owners of the NFL to go auction. They can get rid of the draft and do an auction. That way ALL teams have a chance at the "best" player and can pay a small amount to others.

The purpose of the NFL draft is to allow the weaker teams to level the playing field with the top teams. The point of fantasy football is for the top teams to take advantage of the weaker teams. I think your point here would be one in favor of a fantasy football auction.

 

[Pythagoras]

We've had 30 trades since May centered around the rookie draft and around teams clearing out cap room to give out contract extensions to their players who are good values. A smart owner gets to retain a lot of his team, but enough guys end up overpriced and cut that there is a good group of talent available each year that a good owner could turn his team around with.A well structured salary cap league takes all the best parts of FF and adds to them.

I hate to get off topic, but how did you set up your contract extensions? My league has been talking about adding that option, but we haven't figured out the best balance yet.

 

[Big Sug]

snake draft = checkers, auction = chess.

any mouthbreather can sign up for footballguys.com, print out some stuff, bring it to his draft and put together a decent team. auctions are way more challenging.

fwiw i have one auction league and two snake drafts.