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why is there a misconception (1 Viewer)

gocats

Footballguy
This is ridiculous. I hear people say " matt leinart is poised but doesnt have a great arm"

WTF? this is a kid who was throwing 88 MPH fastballs at the age of 14. Doesnt have a great arm? This in my opinion is what will elevate Matt to the number one overall spot. When SC has their pro day Matt will WOW with his arm strength and jump to the number one overall spot. Somebody will trade up for their franchise QB.

You are correct in that he is known more for his accuracy and touch. I have watched games where leinart zips throws in there. The most memorable one being some of those orange bowl throws from 2004. He has an above average arm strength that wasnt really showcased because of the system that was ran while he was at SC. At Pro Day you will see.

 
I actually made the "weak arm" arguement way back during last year, and everyone mocked me for it.

Now, I seem to have flip-flopped a bit, and everyone else is onboard the "weak arm" thing.

After seeing a bit more of him, I have seen evidence that he does in fact have a good arm, and can zip the ball in there (as I've seen him do a few times), he just has a tendency to float the ball and try to put touch on everything. Some quarterbacks (like AJ Feeley) are criticized for gunning the ball in there no matter what, Leinart seems like the opposite. Leinart tends to float the ball when he should zing it in there, and I tend to think his "weak arm" is more mental than physical.

We saw a perfect example of it in the Rose Bowl on that ball that got picked off in the endzone, there was no reason to float it in there and had he put some arm behind it it would have been a touchdown rather than an interception.

I also experienced a bit of a similar thing myself when I was in school. One year I played some fast receivers that could get open a lot and it got to the point where if they were running a post, I didn't even try to throw it to them but rather just floated it way out in front of them and let them run and go get it, and it worked like a charm then just as it has for Leinart. Meanwhile, I got "used" to doing that and sometimes put "touch" on passes that required velocity, and I believe Leinart has fallen into a bit of the same trap. The good thing about that is that it's something that can be fixed at the next level.

 
You know, I think it's generally true that the brainy QBs tend to get questioned on their arm strenght for precisely this reason. Or maybe it's b/c you only get remembered as a brainy guy if you don't have a cannon. Peyton Manning throws one of the liveliest balls I can remember, but he's known for his intellectual talents more than his phyiscal skills.

Personally, I think the whole arm-strength thing is mostly based on rumors and whatever. Sure, it's easy to tell that some guys have strong arms, but I don't think anybody can group them any better than weak-medium-strong. I remember reading an article last year which stated that Pennington and Brady had about the same arm-strength. Whatever - there are so many QBs with arm strength who can't play, and plenty with lesser arm strength who can.

 
I can't remember where I read it, but it has been said he can make ALL the NFL throws. I wouldn't call that a noodle arm.

 
When Joe Montana was drafted out of Notre Dame the knock on him was that he had a weak arm and was too skinny.

A strong arm isn't that important, Leinart will do well in the NFL regardless of all the critics.

 
Because he's a lefty.
:goodposting:
Interesting point.Both lefties that I can think of, Steve Young and Mark Brunnel, both do look like they're weak armed. Why is that, I wonder?
I remember watching a QB Challenge and seeing Young struggle to throw the ball 40 yards. It came as a shock since by that time he was a Pro Bowl player.
 
Girly hair = girly arm. That boy is just too pretty.

:fro:
We on the West Coast can't help it we are born pretty...I went to Nebraska once...next time I'll bring my harpoon. :ph34r:
 
Girly hair = girly arm.  That boy is just too pretty.

:fro:
We on the West Coast can't help it we are born pretty...I went to Nebraska once...next time I'll bring my harpoon. :ph34r:
While there are some fine looking midwest women, I agree that on the average Nebraska has exceeded its tonage requirements.
 
Girly hair = girly arm.  That boy is just too pretty.

:fro:
We on the West Coast can't help it we are born pretty...I went to Nebraska once...next time I'll bring my harpoon. :ph34r:
While there are some fine looking midwest women, I agree that on the average Nebraska has exceeded its tonage requirements.
I was just having some fun...plenty of good looking girls everywhere. I've lived in the Midwest/WestCoast/South...good looking women everywhere.
 
Personally I think it is because people are comparing him (at least subconciously) to Carson Palmer who has a MUCH stronger arm. That doesn't mean Leinart has a weak arm - just that he is not a Palmer clone.

Besides, strong arm does not equal NFL success. Just ask Kyle Boller.

 
After seeing a bit more of him, I have seen evidence that he does in fact have a good arm, and can zip the ball in there (as I've seen him do a few times), he just has a tendency to float the ball and try to put touch on everything. Some quarterbacks (like AJ Feeley) are criticized for gunning the ball in there no matter what, Leinart seems like the opposite. Leinart tends to float the ball when he should zing it in there, and I tend to think his "weak arm" is more mental than physical.

We saw a perfect example of it in the Rose Bowl on that ball that got picked off in the endzone, there was no reason to float it in there and had he put some arm behind it it would have been a touchdown rather than an interception.
This is exactly correct. It's not that Leinart doesn't have a strong arm, but put more touch on the ball because his receivers were typically very wide open. This will be something that he'll have to change in the NFL as his WRs will not have that separation, but that is a question of touch, not arm strength.
 
After seeing a bit more of him, I have seen evidence that he does in fact have a good arm, and can zip the ball in there (as I've seen him do a few times), he just has a tendency to float the ball and try to put touch on everything. Some quarterbacks (like AJ Feeley) are criticized for gunning the ball in there no matter what, Leinart seems like the opposite. Leinart tends to float the ball when he should zing it in there, and I tend to think his "weak arm" is more mental than physical.

We saw a perfect example of it in the Rose Bowl on that ball that got picked off in the endzone, there was no reason to float it in there and had he put some arm behind it it would have been a touchdown rather than an interception.
This is exactly correct. It's not that Leinart doesn't have a strong arm, but put more touch on the ball because his receivers were typically very wide open. This will be something that he'll have to change in the NFL as his WRs will not have that separation, but that is a question of touch, not arm strength.
Well, if he does go to NO then he will have no problem. Brooks hard a strong arm but lacked touch. He could make some ridiculous throws in traffic or downfield but struggle with a RB in the flat. Leinart can learn...
 
While there are some fine looking midwest women, I agree that on the average Nebraska has exceeded its tonage requirements.
I was just having some fun...plenty of good looking girls everywhere. I've lived in the Midwest/WestCoast/South...good looking women everywhere.
Yes, LHUCKS has been shot down by good looking girls everywhere. :D :P
 
While there are some fine looking midwest women, I agree that on the average Nebraska has exceeded its tonage requirements.
I was just having some fun...plenty of good looking girls everywhere. I've lived in the Midwest/WestCoast/South...good looking women everywhere.
Yes, LHUCKS has been shot down by good looking girls everywhere. :D :P
You can't win if you don't play. :football:
 
I've read that he will have a hard time throwing the deep hook in the NFL, and some draftniks seem to think he will avoid that throw at his pro day, something he would not have had a choice about if he went to the combine. That deep hook is the real test of a QB's ability to put some zip on the ball, with accuracy. If he doesn't throw it on pro day.... there is your answer.

 
I've read that he will have a hard time throwing the deep hook in the NFL, and some draftniks seem to think he will avoid that throw at his pro day, something he would not have had a choice about if he went to the combine. That deep hook is the real test of a QB's ability to put some zip on the ball, with accuracy. If he doesn't throw it on pro day.... there is your answer.
as opposed to what, Akili Smith who COULD throw the deep hook? or Ryan Leaf?or Klingler? Heath Shuler? Detmer? Jay Shroeder? Kerry Collins? Vinny Testeverde? Patrick Ramsey?

please. Drew Brees probably can't throw the deep hook, either, but he's as good as any QB in the NFL right now..

and how many times a game do you throw the deep hook, twice maybe? wow..ok,so we're not going to draft a potential franchise QB because he can't throw a deep hook just 32 times in a 16 game season?!?! c'mon now..this kid can flat-out play, he's a former heisman trophy winner, a two time nat'l champion playing in a pro-style offense against a pro-style defense in practice every day , against the likes of lofa tatupu and polamalu at the same time!!!...he's played with a bullet on his chest for two years now, being that USC was the #1 team, everyone was gunning for them..

you think opposing teams just let Leinhart be Leinhart, sit back,and pick them apart? no..they defensively threw the kitchen sink at him every week with different schemes and he STILL won every game, except the last one vs Tx..

but, we don't want him because he can't throw the deep hook...

c'mon..

 
I've read that he will have a hard time throwing the deep hook in the NFL, and some draftniks seem to think he will avoid that throw at his pro day, something he would not have had a choice about if he went to the combine. That deep hook is the real test of a QB's ability to put some zip on the ball, with accuracy. If he doesn't throw it on pro day.... there is your answer.
as opposed to what, Akili Smith who COULD throw the deep hook? or Ryan Leaf?or Klingler? Heath Shuler? Detmer? Jay Shroeder? Kerry Collins? Vinny Testeverde? Patrick Ramsey?

please. Drew Brees probably can't throw the deep hook, either, but he's as good as any QB in the NFL right now..

and how many times a game do you throw the deep hook, twice maybe? wow..ok,so we're not going to draft a potential franchise QB because he can't throw a deep hook just 32 times in a 16 game season?!?! c'mon now..this kid can flat-out play, he's a former heisman trophy winner, a two time nat'l champion playing in a pro-style offense against a pro-style defense in practice every day , against the likes of lofa tatupu and polamalu at the same time!!!...he's played with a bullet on his chest for two years now, being that USC was the #1 team, everyone was gunning for them..

you think opposing teams just let Leinhart be Leinhart, sit back,and pick them apart? no..they defensively threw the kitchen sink at him every week with different schemes and he STILL won every game, except the last one vs Tx..

but, we don't want him because he can't throw the deep hook...

c'mon..
The deep hook is simply a way to measure what throws a QB can and can't make, and is a way to measure arm strength. My real point was that by bypassing the combine, he will have control over what throws HE chooses to make on his pro day. Bet your bottom dollar though, that he'll have to make all the throws at his private workouts for the top five teams in the draft order. Call me a little gun shy, as a Jets fan, when it comes to any question about a QB's arm strength. I've had enough of weak armed QB's.

 
This is ridiculous. I hear people say " matt leinart is poised but doesnt have a great arm"
Typical pre-draft posturing. I suspect the post-draft report cards say something differently. Much like any knocks on Reggie Bush and not being an every down back. Once these players are drafted, any preconceived short-comings disappear.
 
Actually the deep hook is more of a timing pattern and doesn't necessarily demand the strongest of arms. I have always read that the deep out was the toughest pass (and crossing patterns) for an NFL quarterback to throw. And the deep out is used whenever time is an issue so a quarterback has to be able to throw it at the NFL level.

As for avoiding certain throws - don't count on it. The scouts present will want to see ALL the throws and any quarterback with NFL aspirations will attempt them all.

Bypassing the combine is usually done for a myriad of reasons - but not because a player is afraid of a specific drill.

A player like Leinart could only hurt himself at the combine where scouts would get to see him side-by-side with Cutler and others. By waiting for his pro day, Lienart gains a couple of things. One, he is throwing to known receivers. Two, once he warms up, he is the show. No long pauses between throwing turns. At the combine he might wait 15 minutes between turns to throw. Three, he is the ONLY show in town that day. No comparisons to Vince Young, Jay Cutler or any of the other guys.

A player like Cutler can improve his standing by having a good combine. Players like Young and Leinart can only hurt theirs. Unfortunately for Young, his was hurt by things he chose to do (Wonderlic, etc). Young will now need a good showing on his pro day to offset his combine. Further, Cutler may have passed Young on many team's boards because he DID do well at the combine.

 
Rovers, Pennington may not have the strongest arm but it was strong enough when he was healthy. He completed nearly 70% of his passes his first year as a starter and had a 22/6 TD to Int ratio. Then he lost his favorite receiver and the injuries began. The shoulder injury really limited him but I don't believe the arm strength (when healthy) ever has. Last year was the first time in his career where he had more interceptions than touchdowns. And the Jets had a lot more problems than quarterback. His sacks per attempt was the most since his rookie season (when he was sacked once in five attempts). The Jets vaunted running game disappeared. And the defense fell apart.

I don't know if Pennington will be able to come back from his second shoulder surgery in two years or not. But if he does, and if he can stay healthy (a big if I know), I don't think any Jet fan will complain about his arm strength.

 
I have always read that the deep out was the toughest pass (and crossing patterns) for an NFL quarterback to throw. And the deep out is used whenever time is an issue so a quarterback has to be able to throw it at the NFL level.
Crossing patterns are easy. They're just about leading the receiver and reading the defense. Leinart is excellent with this throw. The deep out (20 yards) is the key throw in the phrase "all the throws". Brees didn't have it, but he developed it with creative strength training and hard work. Leinart doesn't have it, but he is working as hard to develop it, and he hopes to show it off on April 2nd (his pro day).

Here's what the throw involves. Leinart can hit the sidelines 20 yards up the field (so can I), but the "NFL Throw" involves a little more than that. The ball cannot be released early, or the DB can read it and break on it too easily. The ball cannot be released late, or the receiver will stop at the sideline or go out of bounds, and the DB will read the WRs break and be able to recover to make the play. The ball has to be released as the WR cuts, then it has to hit the sideline at the same time as the wide receiver. This throw takes more arm strength than a 65 yard bomb. It is thrown on a rope, very hard, and requires accuracy. There is a short list of NFL starters who cannot make this throw. They are not good QBs because of it, nor will they be starters for long. If a QB cannot make a throw then the defense doesn't have to worry about it. So don't tell me it isn't important.

 
This is the time of year where everyone picks a player and then bags on the others. If you are a Lionheart guy, you bag on Young and Cutler.......vice versa.

So people are picking apart the other two guys. I think all three of these guys will do ok in the NFL. I think Young and Cutler will have a better chance to succeed because they wont be thrown to the wolves their rookie season because they aren't considered "NFL ready" where Lionheart is considered ready. Not that I agree but that is what I have read.

 
Chaos,

The crossing pattern is considered difficult precisely because of the reads required. You can't be late or early. You have to read the drops of LBs and occassionally DL. You have to fit the ball in an opening that is three dimensional (over the backers, in front of the DBs and in a window outside the zones). The deep out requires the strongest arm (as you so clearly explained). But most young QBs get in trouble when they throw over the middle (on crossing patterns). I don't think any of the three or four top QBs will have problems with any of the throws they have to make. They are more likely to have problems understanding blitz angles and reading complex and disguised pro coverages.

 
Leinart floated many of his throws because he could get away with it at the college level. It gave the receiver more time to adjust. He is not going to be able to do that against speedy NFL level CBs. It will be one of the adjustments he is going to have to make to succeed in the NFL, something that Akili Smith and Ryan Leaf were not able to do. Leinart has shown an "average" NFL arm when called for.

 
Leinart had surgery on his arm after his junior season for tendonitis. In fact, this is one reason he elected to play another season in college. His recovery from it has been excellent, obviously, but any apparent lack of arm strength could be attributed to both the injury and the recovery from it.

And those that saw him play, especially towards the end of his senior year, know that arm strength is unlikely to be factor in his success in the NFL.

 
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And those that saw him play, especially towards the end of his senior year, know that arm strength is unlikely to be factor in his success in the NFL.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :blackdot: This will be one of the more humorous posts to get bumped in 2 years. :loco: :popcorn:

 
Chaos,

The crossing pattern is considered difficult precisely because of the reads required. You can't be late or early. You have to read the drops of LBs and occassionally DL. You have to fit the ball in an opening that is three dimensional (over the backers, in front of the DBs and in a window outside the zones). The deep out requires the strongest arm (as you so clearly explained). But most young QBs get in trouble when they throw over the middle (on crossing patterns). I don't think any of the three or four top QBs will have problems with any of the throws they have to make. They are more likely to have problems understanding blitz angles and reading complex and disguised pro coverages.
Correct. When I said easy, I was thinking of Leinart. He has that throw. He makes good reads. He may not make them as fast as he will need to, but I have no worries about him and this throw. It is his best throw. He'll slice up a secondary with protection and crossing patterns.
 
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