Wife arrested for child abuse (1 Viewer)

[Limp Ditka]

I've mentioned this before in a similar thread. There's a single mom on my street that has left her kids, alone, 9-5 all day in the summer for 2 solid years.  They were 9 and now 10 (twins).

Texas has no such latchkey law.  

Pretty concerning when the kids only aged one year over two solid years.

 

[culdeus]

Pretty concerning when the kids only aged one year over two solid years.

Well two summers.  lol.  So in reality ~13 months.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I'm sure it was just a glitch in the matrix.

Yeah, I think that's a safe bet. 

 

[Chemical X]

North Carolina Law

§ 14-318. Exposing children to fire. If any person shall leave any child under the age of eight years locked or otherwise confined in any dwelling, building or enclosure, and go away from such dwelling, building or enclosure without leaving some person of the age of discretion in charge of the same, so as to expose the child to danger by fire, the person so offending shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

North Carolina - There is no juvenile code regarding minimum requirements but this state's fire code G.S. 14-318 does. It states that if you leave a child under the age of 8 alone without supervision this is a fire hazard and you will be found guilty of A Class 1 misdemeanor.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/north-carolina-misdemeanor-crimes-class-and-sentences

 

[Chemical X]

The issue here is getting a good lawyer to have the charges dismissed and expunged.  I wouldn't settle for anything else, unless your lawyer specifically feels there are no other options.  Without having the arrest expunged, it will always be on your criminal record, regardless of conviction.  Most employers only ask about convictions, many only ask about felony convictions, some ask about arrests.

 

[Max Power]

Bull####. Just stupid. The cops have their hands tied cause some law is on the books. 

Will this impact wife's security clearance?

I don't think so.  We are hoping the charges get dropped or pleaded down.  I have a clearance myself and they usually need to see a pattern of misconduct before they hold something against you.  The investigating agent will look into it, but she only has to explain the story and he will write it off as such. 

 

[Max Power]

My oldest daughter is almost 8 and I'd leave her alone with her 10 year old nephew.  Mostly because the nephew is uber responsible

my 11 year is an honor student and we hope the judge weighs that in the case.  He was able to walk the cop though our care plan when he showed up and made contact with us upon request.  Its just a bad situation.  The law isn't even black and white about the situation, but it seems like the officer's hands were tied when reporting it. 

 

[Max Power]

Unfortunately it could unless you have a very understanding and good investigator. I'm not sure what level of clearance she's going for but character checks will matter, previous work history, and if she has to do the poly it will come up and she will have an opportunity to tell them exactly what happened.  In this case, if she tells them the truth and doesn't try to cover up anything she could be okay since there was clearly no criminal intent going on.  

Good look, Max

Its just a public trust. She is creating the online training for the Nuclear Regulator Committee.  Its the annual refresher training their employees need.  Nothing crazy.

 

[culdeus]

my 11 year is an honor student and we hope the judge weighs that in the case.  He was able to walk the cop though our care plan when he showed up and made contact with us upon request.  Its just a bad situation.  The law isn't even black and white about the situation, but it seems like the officer's hands were tied when reporting it. 

He was there for an alarm.  Does that not factor?  It wasn't like your kids were reported throwing moltov cocktails.

 

[mozzy84]

If I were to bet nothing will come of this. Might cost you some money though which is BS.

 

[Max Power]

Agreed. Why would a cop want to deal with writing this up, perhaps even having to go to court.  After talking to Max' wife why not use some discretion and write up the report as false alarm, talked to the mother and be done with it.  No harm no foul. 

The write up was poor.  Seriously a single paragraph that outlined the kids ages and had Child abuse written in there.  The officer couldn't have spent more than 5 minutes on it. 

 

[Max Power]

I'm not sure the legalities of being a mandated reporter because I'm not one, but I would imagine that a police officer could be putting himself or herself in serious jeopardy if they don't report what is - by the letter of the law in their state - something that needs to be reported.  

This is my understanding.  The cop's hands were tied.  Yet down at the station, they made it seem to my wife that she shouldn't have been arrested. 

 

[Max Power]

If I were to bet nothing will come of this. Might cost you some money though which is BS.

At this point, I'd take it.  I hope I can throw some money at it and the charges don't stick on her record. 

 

[Max Power]

He was there for an alarm.  Does that not factor?  It wasn't like your kids were reported throwing moltov cocktails.

I guess that is up to the judge. 

 

[DocHolliday]

Good luck.  The cops hands could have been tied but it seems like he over reacted. 

 

[Max Power]

North Carolina Law

§ 14-318. Exposing children to fire. If any person shall leave any child under the age of eight years locked or otherwise confined in any dwelling, building or enclosure, and go away from such dwelling, building or enclosure without leaving some person of the age of discretion in charge of the same, so as to expose the child to danger by fire, the person so offending shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

North Carolina - There is no juvenile code regarding minimum requirements but this state's fire code G.S. 14-318 does. It states that if you leave a child under the age of 8 alone without supervision this is a fire hazard and you will be found guilty of A Class 1 misdemeanor.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/north-carolina-misdemeanor-crimes-class-and-sentences

I'll see what a lawyer says.  The crazy part is that the room the kids were left in is our sunroom.  There is a wii and tv in there.  They were literally 4 feet from an exit to outside. 

 

[[scooter]]

Doesn't the security monitoring company have a backup number that they could have called?

 

[Max Power]

Doesn't the security monitoring company have a backup number that they could have called?

Her cell is the primary.  I can't take my cell into the building I work in.  So I didn't add my number to the account. 

 

[Sand]

It wasn't like your kids were reported throwing moltov cocktails.

Reminds me - at about that age we used to go out on the golf course and throw molotovs and some small pipe bombs made from copper AC tubing and gunpowder.  I remember it being good fun.  These days I shudder to think what would have happened if we were caught doing this.  We never did any damage (except for that one time I burned down a port-o-let, but that's another story) and just wanted to watch flames. 

 

[dgreen]

One Sunday morning, my wife woke me around 8:00 AM to tell me she was going to church early and that I should just meet her there later with the kids. The kids at the time were probably about 6, 4, and 2. She said they were downstairs eating breakfast and watching tv. So, I got out of bed and went straight to the shower to start getting ready for church. After my shower, I headed to the laundry area in the basement to get some clothes. On my way down, I noticed no kids on the main level. In the basement, I saw the 6 and 4 year old and asked where the 2 year was. "I don't know," was their answer of course. I grabbed clothes and headed back upstairs. On my way back up, I looked again on the main level and happened to notice the front door wasn't ajar. But, I thought, surely the 2 year old is just upstairs in his room. Surely he didn't go outside. Plus, since I was still just in a towel, I decided not to walk outside and look. I went upstairs, looked around, didn't see him, and quickly threw on some clothes. I head back downstairs and go outside. It was a chilly, foggy morning. I start walking along my street. As I walk along, I see my 2 year old walking along the sidewalk in just a diaper, crying "Mommy". There was a man near him and as I started yelling my son's name and running over toward him, a police car pulled up. "Oh, ####," was my thought. The man had called it in to the police, understandably, and the officer asked me a few questions. I told her what happened and that I think my wife must not have closed the door all the way and she probably also didn't realize I was jumping straight in the shower instead of heading downstairs first. The officer said she had to come look inside my house. She walked in, glanced around the main level for a few minutes, then said she's required to report this to child services and they may come visit us. They never did visit.

 

[EYLive]

. I think I still have the tape.

youtube gold!

 

[need2know]

Wow.  Thanks for the FYI.  Hope everything works out

 

[Beef Ravioli]

One Sunday morning, my wife woke me around 8:00 AM to tell me she was going to church early and that I should just meet her there later with the kids. The kids at the time were probably about 6, 4, and 2. She said they were downstairs eating breakfast and watching tv. So, I got out of bed and went straight to the shower to start getting ready for church. After my shower, I headed to the laundry area in the basement to get some clothes. On my way down, I noticed no kids on the main level. In the basement, I saw the 6 and 4 year old and asked where the 2 year was. "I don't know," was their answer of course. I grabbed clothes and headed back upstairs. On my way back up, I looked again on the main level and happened to notice the front door wasn't ajar. But, I thought, surely the 2 year old is just upstairs in his room. Surely he didn't go outside. Plus, since I was still just in a towel, I decided not to walk outside and look. I went upstairs, looked around, didn't see him, and quickly threw on some clothes. I head back downstairs and go outside. It was a chilly, foggy morning. I start walking along my street. As I walk along, I see my 2 year old walking along the sidewalk in just a diaper, crying "Mommy". There was a man near him and as I started yelling my son's name and running over toward him, a police car pulled up. "Oh, ####," was my thought. The man had called it in to the police, understandably, and the officer asked me a few questions. I told her what happened and that I think my wife must not have closed the door all the way and she probably also didn't realize I was jumping straight in the shower instead of heading downstairs first. The officer said she had to come look inside my house. She walked in, glanced around the main level for a few minutes, then said she's required to report this to child services and they may come visit us. They never did visit.

I can understand something like this happening but thank God for the gentleman watching out for your kid! 

 

[Evilgrin 72]

youtube gold!

I'll see if I can find it.  It's on VHS, so I may have to shoot video of the television playing it (I think we still have a working VCR connected to the TV in one of the guest bedrooms) and then post that, so it would likely be low quality, but nevertheless, you guys would get to see it.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I'll see if I can find it.  It's on VHS, so I may have to shoot video of the television playing it (I think we still have a working VCR connected to the TV in one of the guest bedrooms) and then post that, so it would likely be low quality, but nevertheless, you guys would get to see it.

I can't speak for others, but me, I can never get enough of the Evilgrin home videos. I'm a big fan of Yams, and to a lesser extent The Ox.  If he just went by Ox, with the "the" proceeding it he might close the gap, but not all the way.

 

[shadyridr]

It is very weird that this thread popped up today because I had a dream last night that I left my 8 year old son home sleeping for what was supposed to be 5 minutes while my wife and I went to the store to get something. On the way home from the store a cop pulled us over and was asking us questions for hours and the whole time I was freaking out thinking my son would wake up and be scared neither of us were home but I couldnt admit it to the cop either because then we'd get in trouble. I woke up in a cold sweat. Very weird.

 

[Johnny Rock]

I'll see if I can find it.  It's on VHS, so I may have to shoot video of the television playing it (I think we still have a working VCR connected to the TV in one of the guest bedrooms) and then post that, so it would likely be low quality, but nevertheless, you guys would get to see it.

I never got the link to all the other videos you said you found and needed to transfer. TIA

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I can't speak for others, but me, I can never get enough of the Evilgrin home videos. I'm a big fan of Yams, and to a lesser extent The Ox.  If he just went by Ox, with the "the" proceeding it he might close the gap, but not all the way.

Oddly, that's how the nickname started.  We were on a family trip to Colonial Williamsburg when we were kids and for some reason, when we bought the all access tickets, they asked for a name and printed it on a name tag in large letters; you had to wear it to gain access to the Governor's Mansion, etc.  Yams and I just gave our first and last names, but the middle child, for reasons unknown, went with Rich "Ox" (last name.)  We got a laugh out of it as he wore it around, but it was burned into lore when we went to go watch a re-enactment of a courtroom proceeding or something like that.  The actors/employees needed to pull someone from the crowd to do something and the guy scans the crowd and then says : "You know what.... let's get The Ox up here !"  He then proceeded to call him nothing but "The Ox" for the next 15 minutes, while Yams and I were crying laughing in the crowd.  He was known as "The Ox" (among other nicknames) henceforth.

Semi-related : on the same trip, we went to Busch Gardens for a day.  My dad allowed us each to get a personalized souvenir t-shirt from the no-longer-existent ride called the Big Bad Wolf.  As we grappled with creative names to have stitched onto the back of the shirts (Rich went with The Ox - natch) , I went with FAQ LORD.  Don't ask why, it was an inside joke with my friends at the time and had nothing to do with frequently asked questions - think FA Q, and you're on the right path.  Anyway, the point is - rather than putting it in all caps, they only capitalized the F and the L, so the shirt read "Faq Lord" on the back.  If you haven't already figured out where this is going, the next morning, I'm wearing the shirt in a Waffle House.  We're paying the bill and walking out when one of the waitresses, in her absurdly rich Southern accent, yells (and I do mean YELLS) out :

"Fag Lord ?!?!?!?!  You don't look like one a-THOSE !"

That shirt went right in the garbage the second we got back to the hotel.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I never got the link to all the other videos you said you found and needed to transfer. TIA

I never posted them.  I may or may not do so.  You'll know it if/when I do.

Also, Max Power - sorry for the hijack here, I just realized how bad it is.  Genuinely sorry.  Maybe I need a catch-all thread of my own (or just the story time thread) so I stop doing this.  Please accept my apologies.

 

[Chemical X]

Can't imagine me and the Mrs. have no kids.

 

[Max Power]

I never posted them.  I may or may not do so.  You'll know it if/when I do.

Also, Max Power - sorry for the hijack here, I just realized how bad it is.  Genuinely sorry.  Maybe I need a catch-all thread of my own (or just the story time thread) so I stop doing this.  Please accept my apologies.

All good man.

 

[Tom Servo]

Fag Lord ?!?!?!?!  You don't look like one a-THOSE !"

 

 

[Zow]

Bull####. Just stupid. The cops have their hands tied cause some law is on the books. 

Will this impact wife's security clearance?

Cops arguably have more outright discretion than anybody any other actor in the criminal justice system. 

 

[Zow]

Unfortunately you're not the kind of family the law was written for but also unfortunately you're now caught up in.  Let the legal process play out and hopefully the state will drop the case (if they're even able to).  Good luck. 

A prosecutor has nearly carte blanche discretion to "drop" nearly anything, provided it falls within the ethical boundaries of his or her position.  The better question is whether the prosecutor decides it's just to dismiss the case or, as they more often do, offer a favorable plea agreement.

 

[Zow]

I'd just lawyer up.  I would think a good lawyer and a common sense judge would make sure things work out okay. 

In many of the jurisdictions I've encountered the quality of the judge really isn't a huge factor.  Judges, regardless of the common sense they possess, are oftentimes handcuffed by limitations in plea agreements, sentencing guidelines, and procedural rules.  Generally, it's the state/prosecutor with the most power/ability to exercise discretion or "common sense" in situations such as this. 

 

[Evilgrin 72]

 

That woman's probably dead or infirm by now, but her voice is seared into my memory.  I can still hear it now like it happened yesterday.

 

[Zow]

I'm not sure the legalities of being a mandated reporter because I'm not one, but I would imagine that a police officer could be putting himself or herself in serious jeopardy if they don't report what is - by the letter of the law in their state - something that needs to be reported.  

In many situations, at least the ones I've seen, a cop will error on the side of charging if he believes there's probable cause that a crime may have been committed under the rationale that the prosecutor and subsequent court system can figure it out. 

 

[Zow]

And not to start anything but NC seems to need to get their act together law-wise.

FWIW, even given the facts described in the OP, there's most likely probable cause to substantiate charges in my jurisdiction as well. 

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Cops have more outright discretion than anybody any other actor in the criminal justice system. 

If I had a dollar for every time I got caught underage with beer or had a joint in my hand/mouth and a cop just let me walk away, I'd have enough for a value meal.  That's why I was so annoyed by this, he didn't need to arrest a woman who clearly did absolutely nothing wrong.  It's aggravating to me.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Oddly, that's how the nickname started.  We were on a family trip to Colonial Williamsburg when we were kids and for some reason, when we bought the all access tickets, they asked for a name and printed it on a name tag in large letters; you had to wear it to gain access to the Governor's Mansion, etc.  Yams and I just gave our first and last names, but the middle child, for reasons unknown, went with Rich "Ox" (last name.)  We got a laugh out of it as he wore it around, but it was burned into lore when we went to go watch a re-enactment of a courtroom proceeding or something like that.  The actors/employees needed to pull someone from the crowd to do something and the guy scans the crowd and then says : "You know what.... let's get The Ox up here !"  He then proceeded to call him nothing but "The Ox" for the next 15 minutes, while Yams and I were crying laughing in the crowd.  He was known as "The Ox" (among other nicknames) henceforth.

Semi-related : on the same trip, we went to Busch Gardens for a day.  My dad allowed us each to get a personalized souvenir t-shirt from the no-longer-existent ride called the Big Bad Wolf.  As we grappled with creative names to have stitched onto the back of the shirts (Rich went with The Ox - natch) , I went with FAQ LORD.  Don't ask why, it was an inside joke with my friends at the time and had nothing to do with frequently asked questions - think FA Q, and you're on the right path.  Anyway, the point is - rather than putting it in all caps, they only capitalized the F and the L, so the shirt read "Faq Lord" on the back.  If you haven't already figured out where this is going, the next morning, I'm wearing the shirt in a Waffle House.  We're paying the bill and walking out when one of the waitresses, in her absurdly rich Southern accent, yells (and I do mean YELLS) out :

"Fag Lord ?!?!?!?!  You don't look like one a-THOSE !"

That shirt went right in the garbage the second we got back to the hotel.

While in 6th grade my father made the horrendous decision that we should take a family trip to Wiliamsburg, D.C. and the Ford Museum, maybe also the Daniel Webster House.  A nice educational trIp. A 2500 mile road trip.  It sucked.

At Williamsburg it seemed that every other shop and re-enactment had to do with candle making or forging gun barrels.  Not in my wheelhouse.  My kid brother and I wondered away.  There was an interesting looking tree.  We climbed it in spite of the sign warning not to.  We got a great vantage point over a walled in enclosure with no roof.  It was a staging area for the female casts members  for donning their period correct outfits.  We got an eyeful.  Eventually we were spotted and we high-tailed it back to the folks. 

 

[Zow]

I'll see what a lawyer says.  

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I never posted them.  I may or may not do so.  You'll know it if/when I do.

Also, Max Power - sorry for the hijack here, I just realized how bad it is.  Genuinely sorry.  Maybe I need a catch-all thread of my own (or just the story time thread) so I stop doing this.  Please accept my apologies.

Hey, me too.  Best of luck to you and the wife.  I suspect and hope this will get dismissed or at the very least that she will get a deferred prosecution with eventual sealing or expungement, whichever your state is inclined to do.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

FWIW, even given the facts described in the OP, there's most likely probable cause to substantiate charges in my jurisdiction as well. 

I was also talking about their laws (or proposed laws) concerning:

-Running over protesters 

-Banning local governments from removing Confederate statues etc

-Transgender bathrooms

 

[Max Power]

In many of the jurisdictions I've encountered the quality of the judge really isn't a huge factor.  Judges, regardless of the common sense they possess, are oftentimes handcuffed by limitations in plea agreements, sentencing guidelines, and procedural rules.  Generally, it's the state/prosecutor with the most power/ability to exercise discretion or "common sense" in situations such as this. 

good posting buddy

 

[Evilgrin 72]

good posting buddy

I'm praying for your sake that the prosecutor realizes this is crap and just drops the charges.

 

[Max Power]

I'm praying for your sake that the prosecutor realizes this is crap and just drops the charges.

me too.  Hopefully this community can learn something from it.  Sucks it happened, but we can all be better people tomorrow for it. 

 

[Max Power]

Spoke to a lawyer just now and he thinks we can plea down to a "misuse of the 911 system" on this.  Comes with a small fine.  No jail and maybe some community service.  The wife coaches our kids soccer team, so hopefully that fills the CS need. 

 

[sbonomo]

One Sunday morning, my wife woke me around 8:00 AM to tell me she was going to church early and that I should just meet her there later with the kids. The kids at the time were probably about 6, 4, and 2. She said they were downstairs eating breakfast and watching tv. So, I got out of bed and went straight to the shower to start getting ready for church. After my shower, I headed to the laundry area in the basement to get some clothes. On my way down, I noticed no kids on the main level. In the basement, I saw the 6 and 4 year old and asked where the 2 year was. "I don't know," was their answer of course. I grabbed clothes and headed back upstairs. On my way back up, I looked again on the main level and happened to notice the front door wasn't ajar. But, I thought, surely the 2 year old is just upstairs in his room. Surely he didn't go outside. Plus, since I was still just in a towel, I decided not to walk outside and look. I went upstairs, looked around, didn't see him, and quickly threw on some clothes. I head back downstairs and go outside. It was a chilly, foggy morning. I start walking along my street. As I walk along, I see my 2 year old walking along the sidewalk in just a diaper, crying "Mommy". There was a man near him and as I started yelling my son's name and running over toward him, a police car pulled up. "Oh, ####," was my thought. The man had called it in to the police, understandably, and the officer asked me a few questions. I told her what happened and that I think my wife must not have closed the door all the way and she probably also didn't realize I was jumping straight in the shower instead of heading downstairs first. The officer said she had to come look inside my house. She walked in, glanced around the main level for a few minutes, then said she's required to report this to child services and they may come visit us. They never did visit.

How were you not pissed at your wife?  Who leaves a 2 year old alone with no supervision? 

 

[El Floppo]

It is very weird that this thread popped up today because I had a dream last night that I left my 8 year old son home sleeping for what was supposed to be 5 minutes while my wife and I went to the store to get something. On the way home from the store a cop pulled us over and was asking us questions for hours and the whole time I was freaking out thinking my son would wake up and be scared neither of us were home but I couldnt admit it to the cop either because then we'd get in trouble. I woke up in a cold sweat. Very weird.

damn... hope this gets resolved quickly and painless for you Max.

seems like the cop could/should've just left with a warning... arrested? I'm not buying "hands tied" nonsense- seems like they're making lots of these kinds of decisions using their best judgement and this was some terrible judgement.

shady.. I had no idea myself, so I just looked it up for NY:

The law does not set a minimum age that a child must be before you can leave the child alone. Parents are responsible for deciding whether or not their child is mature and responsible enough to take care of herself or himself. Even though the law does not specify age, very young children cannot take care of themselves and should not be left alone.

There is no law about the minimum age that a person must be to babysit children. Parents are responsible for deciding whether or not the babysitter is mature and responsible enough to take care of their child.

this is from NYS office of children and family services:

At what age is it okay to leave my children home alone?

OCFS is often asked questions regarding the appropriate age to leave a child alone, or what age is appropriate to allow a child to begin babysitting. There are no straightforward answers to these questions. All children develop at their own rate, and with their own special needs and abilities. Some children are responsible, intelligent, and independent enough to be left alone at 12 or 13 years of age. Likewise, there are some teenagers who are too irresponsible or who have special needs that limit their ability to be safe if they are left alone.
Parents and guardians need to make intelligent, reasoned decisions regarding these matters.

Below there are some items for these decision-makers to consider before leaving a child alone. Be aware, this is just the beginning of issues to consider. It is not an all-inclusive checklist to guarantee intelligent and reasoned decision-making:

Consider the child: How mature is the child? How comfortable is the child with the circumstances? What has the child done in the past to show you he/she is able to take on this kind of responsibility?

Consider the child’s knowledge and ability: Does the child know how and when to contact emergency help? Is the child able to prepare food for him/herself? Are there hazards to the child in the environment such as accessible knives, power tools, a stove or oven?

Consider the circumstances: Where will the child be when left alone? How long is the child to be alone?

These same questions should be asked when considering whether a child is old enough to baby-sit. However, when considering a child as an adequate baby sitter, you must evaluate these factors for both the potential baby sitter as well as the needs of the child or children who will be cared for by the baby sitter. A child of 12 might be fine alone for two hours in an afternoon. Yet, the same child may be incapable of responsibly caring for a 5-year-old for that same period of time.

 

[dgreen]

How were you not pissed at your wife?  Who leaves a 2 year old alone with no supervision? 

There was supervision: me, the person who made the choice to take a shower knowing I was the only person over 6 years old in the house. The worst thing my wife did was not make sure the door was closed all the way, but I'm sure she didn't think "I bet he's going to take a shower and not be watching them for several minutes," or else she probably would have made sure to close the door.

Ah, the good ol' days of really young kids and that difficult decision on when to take showers.