Will Warner make the HOF? (1 Viewer)

[S.K.A.]

I thought the win at Carolina put him in and the Philly game made him a lock. The Superbowl performance was great. I think he is in. If he has another year or two of monster stats, he'll be a first ballot HOF'er IMO.

 

[HellToupee]

1 more season to get him over 30,000yds and he's a 1st ballot guy in my mind

NFL MVP

Super Bowl MVP

4 pro bowls

and his Super Bowl performances

 

[JMJ]

No chance Kurt actually retires after coming that close, right?

Hope not.He's one of my 2 keepers for next year.

 

[parrot]

The guy was a defensive stand away from another SB win, leading a comeback which nobody really believed would happen against a great Steelers defense. Even with the loss I believe it still cements him as a HOF player.

 

[SuperJohn96]

He also won the MIW award for 2009.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I'm not wrong... look at his year by year stats.. you have 1 AWESOME season, 2 VERY GOOD seasons.. and the rest are all just role player/goal line man stats.

Role player/goal line men don't end up in the top 10 in yards from scrimmage, which Allen did six times.

top 10 in yards from scrimmage isn't crap when there's only 30 teams in the leaguetop 5 is impressive... you'd have to be in the top 3 to be in the top 10 %.

Martin had one season in the Top 3 in YFS (at #3). Allen did it twice and ranked first in the league both times.

well fine, keep him out too then.but Allen sure as hell shouldn't be in there.

When I take over the entire world, removing Allen from the hall of fame will be at least one of the first 100 things I do.

I think Allen's a borderline HOF candidate based on his regular season numbers, but his 1983 playoff performance that won the SB for the Raiders is enough to push him over. He had a mind boggling 466 rushing yards on 58 carries (8.03 YPC), 118 receiving yards and five TDs in the three games. The fact that he made Jim Plunkett a two time SB champion is mind boggling.As far as his regular season goes, his '85 was an all time great season, his '84 was terrific (18 TDs, best receiving back in the league, 1168 rushing yards) and his '82 season was excellent but cut short by strike -- he was the best RB in the league.

He had huge fumbling issues in '83, but from '82 to '85 he was awesome. Maybe three great years isn't enough for you, and he caught the tail end of Payton's career and the beginning of Dickerson's, but he was the best RB in the league almost as soon as he arrived.

After that? A lot of not impressive work, IMO. But three big time years and a historic playoff run is enough. To put it another way, he's Lydell Mitchell with Terrell Davis' post-season.

(And yes, I think TD's numbers deserve the HOF. Whether or not you want to discount him because of the success of the Denver running game is a personal question.)

 

[Assani Fisher]

29/33 for 379 yards, 5 TDs, 0 INTs

now 7-0 in home playoff games

 

[Ghost Rider]

29/33 for 379 yards, 5 TDs, 0 INTsnow 7-0 in home playoff games

And against the number 2 defense in the NFL. He is a LOCK.

 

[theglorydays]

I don't think i ever remember Warner playing poorly in a playoff game. I'm sure he has but i don't remember any of them.

 

[Assani Fisher]

I don't think i ever remember Warner playing poorly in a playoff game. I'm sure he has but i don't remember any of them.

31 TDs in 12 career playoff games....not bad

 

[GoFishTN]

As far as I can tell, there are only two QBs who have appeared in 3 or more Super Bowls that are not in the HOF. Warner and some Brady guy.

 

[Floyd The Barber]

I don't think i ever remember Warner playing poorly in a playoff game. I'm sure he has but i don't remember any of them.

No he never has. In fact, all three of his post-season losses have something in common... - Lost in 2000 @ NO (playing with a concussion) and the Rams lost on an Az Hakim punt fumble in a shootout.- Lost in 2001 to NE on the Vinaterri FG on the last play.- Last year to Pitt with Big Ben's last second heroics.In each case, Warner was denied the ball for the opportunity to lead his team to the win. Otherwise, all wins.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I don't think i ever remember Warner playing poorly in a playoff game. I'm sure he has but i don't remember any of them.

No he never has. In fact, all three of his post-season losses have something in common... - Lost in 2000 @ NO (playing with a concussion) and the Rams lost on an Az Hakim punt fumble in a shootout.- Lost in 2001 to NE on the Vinaterri FG on the last play.- Last year to Pitt with Big Ben's last second heroics.In each case, Warner was denied the ball for the opportunity to lead his team to the win. Otherwise, all wins.

And in all three games, he played terrific in the 4th quarter.

 

[CaptainHook]

as if he wasnt in already hes now involved in a bunch of new records

hes a lock

 

[bryhamm]

as if he wasnt in already hes now involved in a bunch of new records

hes a lock

 

[metoo]

Last year made him a lock for me. This year is gravy.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

I don't think i ever remember Warner playing poorly in a playoff game. I'm sure he has but i don't remember any of them.

31 TDs in 12 career playoff games....not bad

His first TD next week will tie him with Marino for 3rd all time. If he has just an average game next week (let's say 15-25/285/2/1) then he'll pass Bart Star for highest career playoff passer rating.

 

[bulger2holt]

I'm sure glad the Rams chose Bulger over him. Great choice.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

I'm sure glad the Rams chose Bulger over him. Great choice.

Bulger's decline has been almost as big as Warner's decline in 2002-03.Who knows, maybe Bulger will end up in Arizona in a couple years and resurrect his career?

 

[Ghost Rider]

All-time TD passes in the postseason:

Montana - 45 in 23 games

Favre - 39 in 22 games

Marino - 32 in 18 games

Warner - 31 in 12 games

Bradshaw - 30 in 19 games

 

[Capella]

Can stop talking about this now guys. Anyone who says he isn't is either an idiot or doesn't watch football.

 

[mdlane]

Can stop talking about this now guys. Anyone who says he isn't is either an idiot or doesn't watch football.

Or they're Peter "I have a HOF vote so I matter and you must listen to me!?!" King.

 

[Saints-Man]

Top three passing performances in a Superbowl.1. Kurt Warner2. Kurt Warner3. Kurt WarnerThat kind of surprised me.

This is why he get in, IMO. In the biggest game of all, his performances were as good as anyone who played the game. That, plus the two MVPs, he gets in.

 

[Hunterbeer]

His Arizona resume has removed all doubt. To take that franchise to the Super Bowl would have been enough, but this year has just solidified it.

 

[timschochet]

If we look at Warner's career vs. Tom Brady, Warner is superior in almost every measurable way except that he has one ring and Brady has 3. I really can't believe that Brady always gets into discussions about the best QB of the modern era and Warner gets forgotten. Between the two of them, when healthy, give me Warner.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

If we look at Warner's career vs. Tom Brady, Warner is superior in almost every measurable way except that he has one ring and Brady has 3. I really can't believe that Brady always gets into discussions about the best QB of the modern era and Warner gets forgotten. Between the two of them, when healthy, give me Warner.

Tim, stop.

 

[timschochet]

If we look at Warner's career vs. Tom Brady, Warner is superior in almost every measurable way except that he has one ring and Brady has 3. I really can't believe that Brady always gets into discussions about the best QB of the modern era and Warner gets forgotten. Between the two of them, when healthy, give me Warner.

Tim, stop.

Why? This isn't shtick. I believe it.

 

[David Yudkin]

If we look at Warner's career vs. Tom Brady, Warner is superior in almost every measurable way except that he has one ring and Brady has 3. I really can't believe that Brady always gets into discussions about the best QB of the modern era and Warner gets forgotten. Between the two of them, when healthy, give me Warner.

Tim, stop.

Why? This isn't shtick. I believe it.

Brady's regular season W-L record as a starter: 97-30.Warner's regular season W-L record as a starter: 67-49.

 

[dgreen]

If we look at Warner's career vs. Tom Brady, Warner is superior in almost every measurable way except that he has one ring and Brady has 3. I really can't believe that Brady always gets into discussions about the best QB of the modern era and Warner gets forgotten. Between the two of them, when healthy, give me Warner.

Tim, stop.

Why? This isn't shtick. I believe it.

Brady's regular season W-L record as a starter: 97-30.Warner's regular season W-L record as a starter: 67-49.

Well, discussion over. Not saying tim's right, but you better have more than that.

 

[Sam Quentin]

If we look at Warner's career vs. Tom Brady, Warner is superior in almost every measurable way except that he has one ring and Brady has 3. I really can't believe that Brady always gets into discussions about the best QB of the modern era and Warner gets forgotten. Between the two of them, when healthy, give me Warner.

Tim, stop.

Why? This isn't shtick. I believe it.

Brady's regular season W-L record as a starter: 97-30.Warner's regular season W-L record as a starter: 67-49.

Now imagine Warner was on the Patriots...

 

[finito]

If we look at Warner's career vs. Tom Brady, Warner is superior in almost every measurable way except that he has one ring and Brady has 3. I really can't believe that Brady always gets into discussions about the best QB of the modern era and Warner gets forgotten. Between the two of them, when healthy, give me Warner.

Tim, stop.

Why? This isn't shtick. I believe it.

Brady's regular season W-L record as a starter: 97-30.Warner's regular season W-L record as a starter: 67-49.

Well, discussion over. Not saying tim's right, but you better have more than that.

I am actually being swayed to a certain extent by the argument that Warner is comparable to Brady. His numbers are pretty astonishing. You do have to admit that Warner has had better WRs for most of his career. Brady has only had Moss for a couple of years. Warner has been blessed with Bruce, Holt, Fitzgerald and Boldin (and his brief stint to the Giants without HOF worthy WRs was disastrous).

 

[gianmarco]

(and his brief stint to the Giants without HOF worthy WRs was disastrous).

It was?

 

[timschochet]

If we look at Warner's career vs. Tom Brady, Warner is superior in almost every measurable way except that he has one ring and Brady has 3. I really can't believe that Brady always gets into discussions about the best QB of the modern era and Warner gets forgotten. Between the two of them, when healthy, give me Warner.

Tim, stop.

Why? This isn't shtick. I believe it.

Brady's regular season W-L record as a starter: 97-30.Warner's regular season W-L record as a starter: 67-49.

If your argument is that Brady played on consistently better teams than Warner throughout their careers, with better defenses and protection in front in particular, then I don't disagree. But if you're suggesting that win loss record should be THE important factor in deciding who is the better QB, then I have to take issue. Let's look at their regular season QB passer ratings, removing years where they were mostly injured:Kurt Warner 99 109.200 98.301 101.404 86.505 85.807 89.808 96.909 93.2Lifetime passer rating: 93.7Tom Brady01 86.502 85.703 85.904 92.605 92.306 87.907 117.209 96.2Lifetime passer rating: 93.3Brady's 07 season is a complete anomaly, and boosts his average, though it's still not as good as Warner. Warner's middle years, plagued by injury, lowers his average, but it's still among the best ever.

 

[finito]

(and his brief stint to the Giants without HOF worthy WRs was disastrous).

It was?

9 games started, 6 TDs, 4 INTs. Sacked 39 times (the most in his career, despite only starting 9 games).

 

[David Yudkin]

If we look at Warner's career vs. Tom Brady, Warner is superior in almost every measurable way except that he has one ring and Brady has 3. I really can't believe that Brady always gets into discussions about the best QB of the modern era and Warner gets forgotten. Between the two of them, when healthy, give me Warner.

Tim, stop.

Why? This isn't shtick. I believe it.

Brady's regular season W-L record as a starter: 97-30.Warner's regular season W-L record as a starter: 67-49.

Now imagine Warner was on the Patriots...

OK. I'm imagining Warner playing in the cold and snow with Reche Caldwell, Troy Brown, David Patten, Deon Branch, and David Givens instead of Tory Holt, Isaac Bruce, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Steve Breaston on a fast track indoors. I'm also imagining years with more rushing attempts than passes instead of year with a 2-to-1 passing ratio.Brady's Outdoor Passer Rating is 92.8. Warner's is 84.4. And Warner's passer rating under 40 degrees is 41.8.Also, in 127 career starts Brady has 129 turnovers. Warner in 116 has 174.Look, I'm not bashing Warner as I have been one of his biggest advocates on the boards for years. But comparing these two is not as simple as saying Warner has better passing numbers. Warner on a per game basis has better totals than even Manning. But there is no denying that Warner has greatly benefited from playing on two of the most pass happy teams in NFL history that also played indoors.

 

[David Yudkin]

If we look at Warner's career vs. Tom Brady, Warner is superior in almost every measurable way except that he has one ring and Brady has 3. I really can't believe that Brady always gets into discussions about the best QB of the modern era and Warner gets forgotten. Between the two of them, when healthy, give me Warner.

Tim, stop.

Why? This isn't shtick. I believe it.

Brady's regular season W-L record as a starter: 97-30.Warner's regular season W-L record as a starter: 67-49.

If your argument is that Brady played on consistently better teams than Warner throughout their careers, with better defenses and protection in front in particular, then I don't disagree. But if you're suggesting that win loss record should be THE important factor in deciding who is the better QB, then I have to take issue. Let's look at their regular season QB passer ratings, removing years where they were mostly injured:Kurt Warner 99 109.200 98.301 101.404 86.505 85.807 89.808 96.909 93.2Lifetime passer rating: 93.7Tom Brady01 86.502 85.703 85.904 92.605 92.306 87.907 117.209 96.2Lifetime passer rating: 93.3Brady's 07 season is a complete anomaly, and boosts his average, though it's still not as good as Warner. Warner's middle years, plagued by injury, lowers his average, but it's still among the best ever.

Can you can say with a straight face that the environment these two played in and the talent at receiver was equal?

 

[timschochet]

Look, I'm not bashing Warner as I have been one of his biggest advocates on the boards for years. But comparing these two is not as simple as saying Warner has better passing numbers. Warner on a per game basis has better totals than even Manning. But there is no denying that Warner has greatly benefited from playing on two of the most pass happy teams in NFL history that also played indoors.

This is same argument that Brady defenders always trot out when the comparisons to Manning are made. But the fact is, Brady had his own benefits: a great defense, and a great offensive line throughout most of his career. IMO, these two benefits outweigh the benefits of having elite WRs or playing in a dome.

 

[timschochet]

Can you can say with a straight face that the environment these two played in and the talent at receiver was equal?

The talent at WR was not equal. As far as the environment, I'd much rather play in an "environment" where (1) I had some time to throw without being roughed up half the time (2) I had a defense that could stop people some of the time.

 

[Tybeeman]

Warner is a lock to make it to the HoF.

 

[David Yudkin]

Look, I'm not bashing Warner as I have been one of his biggest advocates on the boards for years. But comparing these two is not as simple as saying Warner has better passing numbers. Warner on a per game basis has better totals than even Manning. But there is no denying that Warner has greatly benefited from playing on two of the most pass happy teams in NFL history that also played indoors.

This is same argument that Brady defenders always trot out when the comparisons to Manning are made. But the fact is, Brady had his own benefits: a great defense, and a great offensive line throughout most of his career. IMO, these two benefits outweigh the benefits of having elite WRs or playing in a dome.

Manning has had multiple Pro Bowl linemen, multi Pro Bowl receivers, and multiple Pro Bowl defenders. As I pointed out in other threads, the Patriots supposedly great defense was exactly 2.75 ppg better than the Colts over the entire time Brady has been a starter. The perception that the Pats had a huge advantage defensively is no more than a myth.As for Brady, prior to 2006 he had one lineman selected to the Pro Bowl (Damien Woody) and he left shortly thereafter. Other than 2007, the Pats OL play has mostly been average or slightly better.

 

[David Yudkin]

Can you can say with a straight face that the environment these two played in and the talent at receiver was equal?

The talent at WR was not equal. As far as the environment, I'd much rather play in an "environment" where (1) I had some time to throw without being roughed up half the time (2) I had a defense that could stop people some of the time.

If you are refering to the Pats and Colts, I just pointed out that the Colts defense was almost as good as the Pats. As for sacks, Brady has been sacked 219 times in 129 games. Manning has been sacked 215 times in 192 games.

 

[Tau837]

Look, I'm not bashing Warner as I have been one of his biggest advocates on the boards for years. But comparing these two is not as simple as saying Warner has better passing numbers. Warner on a per game basis has better totals than even Manning. But there is no denying that Warner has greatly benefited from playing on two of the most pass happy teams in NFL history that also played indoors.

This is same argument that Brady defenders always trot out when the comparisons to Manning are made. But the fact is, Brady had his own benefits: a great defense, and a great offensive line throughout most of his career. IMO, these two benefits outweigh the benefits of having elite WRs or playing in a dome.

Don't forget Belichick and the Pats' organization. Huge advantage, especially when people start trotting out winning percentage and postseason accomplishments.

 

[Da Guru]

Warner is a lock to make it to the HoF.

I thought so until I looked at his career. Warner had 3 good years, 6 crappy years and now three good years. It seems like he will make but you never know.

 

[David Yudkin]

Look, I'm not bashing Warner as I have been one of his biggest advocates on the boards for years. But comparing these two is not as simple as saying Warner has better passing numbers. Warner on a per game basis has better totals than even Manning. But there is no denying that Warner has greatly benefited from playing on two of the most pass happy teams in NFL history that also played indoors.

This is same argument that Brady defenders always trot out when the comparisons to Manning are made. But the fact is, Brady had his own benefits: a great defense, and a great offensive line throughout most of his career. IMO, these two benefits outweigh the benefits of having elite WRs or playing in a dome.

Don't forget Belichick and the Pats' organization. Huge advantage, especially when people start trotting out winning percentage and postseason accomplishments.

The Colts won more games than any other team in the 00s, so it's pretty obvious they had good ownership, coaching, assistants, etc.And since you mentioned it, I don't think that it's a coincidence that the Pats haven't won since their loss of many support personnel behind Belichick (Pioli, Crennel, Weis, Mangini, McDaniel, Dimitroff). I do not recall the Colts transitioning through a ton of coaching and front office changes . . .

 

[Ghost Rider]

Warner is a lock to make it to the HoF.

I thought so until I looked at his career. Warner had 3 good years, 6 crappy years and now three good years. It seems like he will make but you never know.

Calling his best years merely "good years" is doing a tremendous disservice to those years. A season with 41 TDs and 13 INTs is only "good"? Really?

 

[dgreen]

Warner is a lock to make it to the HoF.

I thought so until I looked at his career. Warner had 3 good years, 6 crappy years and now three good years. It seems like he will make but you never know.

Those first three years weren't good. They were great. Maybe the greatest three-year stretch ever. Depending on your definition of 'good', his last three years may have been a little more than that. He's been really, really good the last three years. He won in Arizona. That's an accomplishment on its own. Oh, and then there's the postseason which have been more than great. Not sure what word to use for that.

 

[Tau837]

Brady's regular season W-L record as a starter: 97-30.Warner's regular season W-L record as a starter: 67-49.

Now imagine Warner was on the Patriots...

OK. I'm imagining Warner playing in the cold and snow with Reche Caldwell, Troy Brown, David Patten, Deon Branch, and David Givens instead of Tory Holt, Isaac Bruce, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Steve Breaston on a fast track indoors. I'm also imagining years with more rushing attempts than passes instead of year with a 2-to-1 passing ratio.Brady's Outdoor Passer Rating is 92.8. Warner's is 84.4. And Warner's passer rating under 40 degrees is 41.8.Also, in 127 career starts Brady has 129 turnovers. Warner in 116 has 174.Look, I'm not bashing Warner as I have been one of his biggest advocates on the boards for years. But comparing these two is not as simple as saying Warner has better passing numbers. Warner on a per game basis has better totals than even Manning. But there is no denying that Warner has greatly benefited from playing on two of the most pass happy teams in NFL history that also played indoors.

Sure, Warner benefitted greatly from playing with the offensive talent he has in St. Louis and Arizona, and from playing in good playing environments for those teams. But you're the one who trotted out the regular season winning percentage without acknowledging the obvious benefits Brady has had in compiling the edge he has there. Each of them has enjoyed great situations, even though those situations are very different.

 

[Tau837]

Look, I'm not bashing Warner as I have been one of his biggest advocates on the boards for years. But comparing these two is not as simple as saying Warner has better passing numbers. Warner on a per game basis has better totals than even Manning. But there is no denying that Warner has greatly benefited from playing on two of the most pass happy teams in NFL history that also played indoors.

This is same argument that Brady defenders always trot out when the comparisons to Manning are made. But the fact is, Brady had his own benefits: a great defense, and a great offensive line throughout most of his career. IMO, these two benefits outweigh the benefits of having elite WRs or playing in a dome.

Don't forget Belichick and the Pats' organization. Huge advantage, especially when people start trotting out winning percentage and postseason accomplishments.

The Colts won more games than any other team in the 00s, so it's pretty obvious they had good ownership, coaching, assistants, etc.And since you mentioned it, I don't think that it's a coincidence that the Pats haven't won since their loss of many support personnel behind Belichick (Pioli, Crennel, Weis, Mangini, McDaniel, Dimitroff). I do not recall the Colts transitioning through a ton of coaching and front office changes . . .

There is no one discussing the Colts in this thread except you.

 

[David Yudkin]

Look, I'm not bashing Warner as I have been one of his biggest advocates on the boards for years. But comparing these two is not as simple as saying Warner has better passing numbers. Warner on a per game basis has better totals than even Manning. But there is no denying that Warner has greatly benefited from playing on two of the most pass happy teams in NFL history that also played indoors.

This is same argument that Brady defenders always trot out when the comparisons to Manning are made. But the fact is, Brady had his own benefits: a great defense, and a great offensive line throughout most of his career. IMO, these two benefits outweigh the benefits of having elite WRs or playing in a dome.

Don't forget Belichick and the Pats' organization. Huge advantage, especially when people start trotting out winning percentage and postseason accomplishments.

The Colts won more games than any other team in the 00s, so it's pretty obvious they had good ownership, coaching, assistants, etc.And since you mentioned it, I don't think that it's a coincidence that the Pats haven't won since their loss of many support personnel behind Belichick (Pioli, Crennel, Weis, Mangini, McDaniel, Dimitroff). I do not recall the Colts transitioning through a ton of coaching and front office changes . . .

There is no one discussing the Colts in this thread except you.

Timsrochet brought up the Colts, not me.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Warner is now 4-1 in the postseason in the last two seasons with Arizona (a team that had won 1 postseason game in the previous 50+ years), and has put up the following numbers in those five games:

16 touchdowns

3 interceptions

1,526 passing yards (305 yards per game)

And those numbers came against defenses that ranked:

11th (Atlanta's defensive rank in 2008)

12th (Carolina's defensive rank in 2008)

4th (Philadelphia's defensive rank in 2008)

1st (Pittsburgh's defensive rank in 2008)

2nd (Green Bay's defensive rank in 2009)

No matter how you spin it, those numbers are flat-out sick.