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MOST 300-YARD GAMES, CAREER:1. Dan Marino* (63)
He's already a HOFer.
This year will be only his 5th season with 3,000 passing yards.
could move to #3 all time this season.
Considering Favre and Manning are guaranteed HOF'ers, Kurt Warner belongs there as well IMO. SB ring and 2 time MVP.
guess how many seasons w/ 3000+ Aikman has?
Five. But more rings. Hard to call that apples to apples, as clearly the Cowboys were far more run based than the teams Warner has been on.
only one more ring, but two fewer NFL MVP's and two fewer all-pro selections.
Two more rings. But I don't think Aikman was a great HOF selection in the first place.
Aikman has 3 rings. Warner has 1.And while Pro Bowls are not as good a measure as first team All Pro selections, it is also interesting that Aikman made 6 Pro Bowls and Warner only 3 so far.
right - my bad. Agree on the second count as well.
Warner is a long way from being MVP this year.And why did you list that particular quote in your signature?
Who would you put ahead of him (keeping in mind that MVPs almost never come from teams that do not make the playoffs, so someone like Drew Brees, for example, would be a poor example, IMO)?
Normally best offensive player on the team with the best record (or close to the best record). I don't have a problem with Warner's numbers, but Arizona could still easily finish 9-7. Right now I would guess Eli would win if the season ended now.
Eli has played very well, but I don't think he is having an MVP-type season. Warner has played better, despite having a weak running game (while Eli has the best running game in the NFL) and an average defense (while Eli has a top 3 defense).
Really? Eli might not even make the Pro Bowl for the NFC:TD passes:David Yudkin said:
That cuts both ways.shakeybarn said:
You're killing me here with this Dave. I'm not going to change your mind and I know you're a numbers guy but sometimes you have to look at the numbers as just a piece of the pie. Troy Aikman didn't just make the HOF because of whatever numbers he posted as a QB, it's because he took and quarterbacked a team that started off at 1-15 with him and in a few years they were arguably the greatest dynasty team ever.It's my opinion if the league didn't start putting in caps and messing with free agency, that Dallas team would have won 2 MORE Super Bowl rings. They were too young and too talented when they were basically broken up.Troy Aikman was there through all of it and played like a rock the entire way.As good as a player as Kurt Warner is, with respect to everyone have you guys lost your marbles. You guys were arguing about who's better, Matt Leinart or Kurt Warner before the season. Now, 10 weeks later Kurt Warner is a Hall of Famer and he's possibly better than Troy Aikman?Kobe Bryant said it best when asked about how people compare him and Michael Jordan. Michael is Michael and nobody will ever be Michael. I just want to be Kobe and be the best I can be.Troy Aikman isn't what Michael Jordan is to basketball, but the point is the same. With all that said, the verdict isn't in for Kurt Warner. He hasn't done it well enough for long enough IMO. He started late and in the middle of the great stuff we saw with the Rams and now Arizona, there was also some very eratic and poor play by Warner. If Warner continues this kind of play and the Cardinals actually win a Super Bowl with him, then he's got a shot.Heaven forbid, if he had a season ending injury next week, the answer is he a HOFer is no in my book. He needs to still do more.........and a lot more to be mentioned in the same tier as Troy Aikman.David Yudkin said:
As for Aikman, IMO he would not have made it to the HOF with his stat line on another team. However, he did lead a 3-time SB winner, and that's what got him in, not his raw stats. (IMO, this was true of Bradshaw as well.)That's what makes the HOF balloting so perplexing. SOme people are inducted based on numbers. Others on rings. Others on being tough and what they meant to the game.In Warner's case, it's the FAME part that I think will get him in, as his story is a legendary rags to riches story that will end up as a Disney movie someday.
If the Giants win out to be 15-1 and the Cards end up 9-7 (and still make the playoffs), even with all those great stats I'm not sure Warner would win. Statistically, there is not a huge difference between Cutler, Brees, and Warner. I'd be mmore inclined to say Warner if he was lapping the field statistically, but there are other players putting up similar numbers.ADP, Portis, and Jacobs are all on pace for 1500 rushing yards (with Thomas Jones right off the pace). They also are interesting candidates . . .
the only one arguing for Leinart was LHucks.
We'll see. There's still lots of football left. Remember, the usual formula is best offensive player on one of the top 1 or 2 teams.
That guideline only works if there's a dominant player on one of the top teams. Neither Tenn nor NYG really have that dominant player. Eli is not even a lock to make the pro-bowl, that's how NOT dominant he's been. And on Tenn????? Chris Johnson? As good as he's been, he's still stuck in a RBBC and is unlikely to end top five in yards, and well outside it in TD's. Portis might challenge. Cutler could also. Warner's far from a lock right now, but he's the leader at this point, IMO.As far as Warner goes, before the year I would have said no chance. Now....another year or two like this, OR another MVP, OR another SuperBowl ring with the hapless Cards.....and he's in. He's no in with a career ending injury today...but barring that I'd be very hesitant to bet against him at this point.
Um, what? He started in the middle of the great stuff we saw with the Rams? That is as wrong as wrong can get. The Rams were terrible in '98, but started kicking ### in '99, a season in which Kurt Warner played every single game. And it is no coincidence that the Rams never came close to achieving the same success once Warner got hurt in St. Louis, wasn't the same, and was eventually shipped out of town.
Beat me to it, but, yep. LHUCKS arguing for his Pac-10 QB is the only reason there was any debate at all.
Young has 3 rings, actually.
I think the top three MVP candidates are Warner, Portis and, if the Titans run off a 15-1, I think Albert Haynesworth gets serious consideration, if for nothing else because there's no offensive candidate on TEN.
In my main league, Warner, Brees, Cutler, and Rivers are separated by 10 points after 9 games played. IMO, that makes them all pretty interchangeable.
Warner isn't that close yet to Young in compiled passing statistics (e.g., passing yards, passing TDs). And obviously Young has a significant edge in rushing.They are close in rate statistics... some favoring Warner and some favoring Young, though most are very close. But Young did it for much longer.Young has more 1st Team All Pro and Pro Bowl selections, though Warner could tie him in the former if he is 1st Team All Pro this year.Young has nearly twice as many wins and his winning percentage is much greater (66% to 56%)... granted, Young did join a dynasty when he went to the 49ers, but results are results.Both have 1 ring as a starter. Young was a contributor to two other title teams and took his team to 3 other NFC championship games. Warner got into the Super Bowl one other time. Young played in 20 playoff games, 15 as a starter, compared to 7 for Warner... and Young has a significant edge in postseason numbers to show for it.I don't think Warner compares favorably to Young at this point, although that is certainly not a prerequisite for making the HOF. Warner definitely has the opportunity to improve his standing in these comparisons, but at this point, Young's career was significantly better.
I am talking REAL stats, not fantasy football numbers, which can skew things based on your league's scoring system. Leaving Rivers out (whom you didn't mention originally):Warner's TD-INT ratio is +13Brees' TD-INT ratio is +7Cutler's TD-INT ratio is +7Warner's QB rating is 106.4 (1st in the NFL)Brees' QB rating is 96.1 (4th in the NFL)Cutler's QB rating is 89.5 (14th in the NFL)Plus, Warner has a vastly superior completion percentage, TD percentage and INT percentage to the other two. BIG, BIG difference.In the one league I am in, Aaron Rodgers was the top-rated player for the year going into the last week. Would you have called him the MVP a week ago because he had better fantasy football numbers than the other QBs (at that time)?And if you are going to use the "Eli should get it because he is the best player on one of the two or three top teams" argument, then actually, Brandon Jacobs should get it, because he has been a more dominant RB this year than Eli has been a dominant QB, right? Look at the fantasy numbers!!!!!! 
Was that Marshal's first season also? he was huge back that season also,every bit Warner was.
Cutler shouldn't even be in the conversation. He is 14th in QB rating and has 11 interceptions (only Favre has more), and his team is only 5-4 (and should be 4-5). Rivers has been better than both Cutler and Brees and his numbers are as good as Warner's, except in the win column.
Agreed.
David Yudkin brought Cutler into the conversation, not me. I am a huge Cutler and Broncos fan, but he should not be in any MVP conversation right now.Rivers has played great, too, just like Warner, but with his team currently at 4-5, it is hard to consider him a serious MVP candidate at this time. Players from non-playoff teams NEVER win the NFL MVP award.
Understood. I was mainly pointing out that Rivers' numbers are as good as Warner's, and everyone else is at least a tier below.San Diego still has a chance to win the division. If they do, Rivers might have a slim chance at MVP, particularly if their running game never comes around. That said, a lot of these awards are like college football polls - reputation is a factor. So I think guys like Brees and Warner have an advantage if it's close, because everyone knows they are or have been great QBs for a long time. Someone like Rivers would probably have to outplay the others by a decent margin on top of making the playoffs.
Well, I guess we can make this official now. Warner is in the HOF
He could never win another game and he'd be a lock IMHO. His resume is amazing.
