Will you get a Covid vaccine when available? (1 Viewer)

[DA RAIDERS]

I was answering in the theoretical. I take pretty much zero medications and have pretty much zero trust in the pharmaceutical industry or the government agencies who purport to regulate them. 

do you eat in restaurants?  i've been in the business for a million years.  not only do you not know, what is in your food, you have no idea what it's been through, to get on your plate.  

 

[CrossEyed2]

do you eat in restaurants?  i've been in the business for a million years.  not only do you not know, what is in your food, you have no idea what it's been through, to get on your plate.  

Not often. I used to work in restaurant management, so I’ve seen behind that curtain.

But I trust my body to be healthy enough to handle the few times that I do. But honestly, almost every time I do go to a restaurant I notice the results the next day. My body wants that  out of it ASAP!
 

Edited to add: You can’t use the poop emoji here?

 

[DallasDMac]

I take back what I said about Cav's thread. This is worse.

I'm finding it harder and harder to find any threads worth visiting TBH. This board used to be an enjoyable diversion. Not so much anymore.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I'm finding it harder and harder to find any threads worth visiting TBH. This board used to be an enjoyable diversion. Not so much anymore.

sadly, i am finding the same thing. 

 

[rockaction]

I'm finding it harder and harder to find any threads worth visiting TBH. This board used to be an enjoyable diversion. Not so much anymore.

sadly, i am finding the same thing. 

I really loved this place. I consider myself very much indebted to Joe for running it. These threads, up to and including the Shark Pool, are getting tough to take. 

 

[ghostguy123]

I was talking to some friends over drinks last night.   People are really, really stubborn.  Telling people they should do something never gets you far.  Telling people they HAVE to do something gets you even further away from the target.

The trick to getting people to do something they dont want to do is to make them think it's their idea.  So for those super planner thinker type folks out there, how do we make it happen?  How do we manipulate the situation to make people change their mind, and for them to think they are changing their mind all on their own?

Or........we just say screw it.  No mask mandates, no vaccine mandates.   People can choose to vaccinate and/or wear masks if they want, and we just accept the consequences.   So what, maybe 10-20 million of us will die over the next 5-10 years (hopefully that's all).  

Hey, Bill Burr did say we needed a plague.  

 

[ghostguy123]

I wonder how many of those PHD folks who dont want the vaccine are slobbering all over each other at sporting events, concerts, bars, shopping malls............

 

[beer 30]

I was talking to some friends over drinks last night.   People are really, really stubborn.  Telling people they should do something never gets you far.  Telling people they HAVE to do something gets you even further away from the target.

The trick to getting people to do something they dont want to do is to make them think it's their idea.  So for those super planner thinker type folks out there, how do we make it happen?  How do we manipulate the situation to make people change their mind, and for them to think they are changing their mind all on their own?

Or........we just say screw it.  No mask mandates, no vaccine mandates.   People can choose to vaccinate and/or wear masks if they want, and we just accept the consequences.   So what, maybe 10-20 million of us will die over the next 5-10 years (hopefully that's all).  

Hey, Bill Burr did say we needed a plague.  

Agree with your first point, just not going to happen in today’s environment.

Agree with your second point, only way to convince people of anything anymore is to make them think it was their idea because the innernets & Google have made everyone a specialist in whatever to[ic you chose.

Sadly, all that said, I am leaning toward your third option. People who haven’t been convinced by now won’t be unless the virus hits close to home, like immediate family. And I’m becoming less concerned with the unvaccinated crowd outside of the enormous cost it is imposing on our healthcare system, not so much in cost but in the amount of healthcare workers we are going to lose over that time and how it will effect people wanting to go into the field. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

These 2 are complete quacks. Kaufman is a trained psychiatrist that denies the existence of AIDS, hepatitis, chickenpox, among other things. 

This is fringe nonsense that has no evidence whatsoever. 

We try not to derail this thread with fictional and potentially dangerous dialogue like this. 

Not looking to engage in a back and forth on this. Just know this has been brought up before and it's been dismissed and there's really no interest in going back down this road again.

I don’t understand how anyone can look at that website, let alone watch the video, without immediately recognizing BS.

It’s really an interesting personality type that seeks out and actually believes this type of conspiratorial nonsense. I know nothing about this journal, but I like their description:

Research on individual-difference factors predicting belief in conspiracy theories has proceeded along several independent lines that converge on a profile of conspiracy believers as individuals who are relatively untrusting, ideologically eccentric, concerned about personal safety, and prone to perceiving agency in actions and profundity in bull####. The present research represents the first attempt at an integrative approach to testing the independent contributions of these diverse factors to conspiratorial thinking. Two studies (N = 1,253) found that schizotypy, dangerous-world beliefs, and bull#### receptivity independently and additively predict endorsement of generic (i.e., nonpartisan) conspiracy beliefs. Results suggest that “hyperactive” agency detection and political orientation (and related variables) might also play a role. The studies found no effects of situational threats (mortality salience or a sense of powerlessness) – though it remains to be seen whether real-world instantiations of situational threats might move some people to seek refuge in conspiratorial ideation.

“Profundity in bullsh!t”

 

[Terminalxylem]

This is where I'm always reminded on how I'm just not wired the same way as normal people.  If a pharmacist checked their records and told me that I'm not eligible, I would sheepishly exit the scene with as little as drama as possible because I'd feel embarrassed at having gotten caught trying to pull a a fast one.  I don't have the "double down by yelling at the employee" gene.

Although it might not be obvious where you live, you’re not alone. Mercifully, there are places where most people aren’t a-holes shamelessly exploiting the system.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I'm curious as to why you believe what they have to say? Especially when it contradicts tens of thousands of doctors and scientists. How do these 2 have it right and thousands of others have it wrong?

I don't waste time and energy listening or giving credence to anyone that denies things we know about basic science and medicine. Someone believes AIDS is a hoax? That's a non-starter. 

Feel free to answer my initial question since you posed something similar, but as I stated above, I have zero interest in engaging in this fringe quackery.

You’ve got it backwards - (s)he believes those guys because they contradict the consensus “mainstream” scientists.

 

[Terminalxylem]

If you saw my other answer regarding germ theory you’d see that I allow for times when a pharmaceutical product might be necessary. If your bacterial load is so heavy that they are producing a level of toxins that could kill you, it would then be necessary to reduce the amount of toxicity, which would require a reduction in the bacterial load. But ultimately it’s about the toxins, not the bacteria. Bacteria show up to clean up dead and dying things, they aren’t the cause of dead and dying things. 

How does one measure the level of “bacterial load”? Which toxin(s)? 

 

[Terminalxylem]

Funny you should ask:

Vaccine hesitancy by education level

Already debunked. They revised that data, because people were falsifying their Facebook credentials.

Also, you know who receives more training than PhDs? Physicians. Wanna guess how many of them are vaccine skeptics?

 

[IrishTwinkie]

How does one measure the level of “bacterial load”? Which toxin(s)? 

I just know I’m investing in a leech farm. When the idea that we need to start blood letting to help manage the toxin level catches hold, I’ll become a zillionaire. 

 

[Ilov80s]

Agree with your first point, just not going to happen in today’s environment.

Agree with your second point, only way to convince people of anything anymore is to make them think it was their idea because the innernets & Google have made everyone a specialist in whatever to[ic you chose.

Sadly, all that said, I am leaning toward your third option. People who haven’t been convinced by now won’t be unless the virus hits close to home, like immediate family. And I’m becoming less concerned with the unvaccinated crowd outside of the enormous cost it is imposing on our healthcare system, not so much in cost but in the amount of healthcare workers we are going to lose over that time and how it will effect people wanting to go into the field. 

I wonder how many people who said "it's not even fully FDA approved yet!" went out and got their Pfizer after it got fully approved? I am guessing not many and that was just an attempt to rationalize something that isn't rational. 

 

[Capella]

Nope. Zero chance. There's as many as 100 million people in the USA that are completely asymptomatic. Why would I put that crap in me when I can get treatment? Quit buying into the ridiculous fear pron. I've been around 6 people now that were full blown covid. Face to face with each one. Been to packed, maskless Vegas. Sat at a dinner table in Vegas next to one for well over an hour. Shared a mouse & keyboard with one for 1/2 hour. My brother had it, my 94 year old dad had it. Did not know they had it until their blood tests came back positive for the antibodies. We also have the monoclonal antibody treatment in Free USA, Florida, just in case.

Get healthy, take vitamin C, D3, zinc, quercetin, exercise, eat right and quit going to krispy kreme for your free covid dounts. Get your vitamn D level up to where it should be. Everyone should be having their vitamin D level tested. AND my gawd, quit listening to fauci. I mean, are you not wearing a mask, wearing a mask, wearing 2 masks because that guy can get anything right.

Go get back in line for jab #4. Isreal is prepping to roll that out already.  Pretty soon your gonna need a backpack of covid juice and a runnig IV.

*takes the horse medicine*

 

[KarmaPolice]

I wonder how many people who said "it's not even fully FDA approved yet!" went out and got their Pfizer after it got fully approved? I am guessing not many and that was just an attempt to rationalize something that isn't rational. 

Or like Commish keeps pointing out in the PSF - these people don't worry about these things or deny "experimental" medicine when they are sick and in the hospital.  

 

[ghostguy123]

Interesting article I just saw on Yahoo.  Two twins, one vaccinated one not.  Both got Covid.  One got super sick (might have died actually).   The other had mild symptoms.  

If you had to bet your life savings on which one was vaccinated, which would you pick?

Obviously super small sample size but if they could do this with more sets of twins somehow we could POTENTIALLY show the anti-vax folks some data they might care about.  

 

[Zegras11]

Interesting article I just saw on Yahoo.  Two twins, one vaccinated one not.  Both got Covid.  One got super sick (might have died actually).   The other had mild symptoms.  

If you had to bet your life savings on which one was vaccinated, which would you pick?

Obviously super small sample size but if they could do with with more sets of twins somehow we could POTENTIALLY show the anti-vax folks some data they might care about.  

They don't care about data. They only care about clinging onto whatever they believe with the strongest grip known to man.

The only thing that changes their minds is when someone they know dies.

 

[stbugs]

Interesting article I just saw on Yahoo.  Two twins, one vaccinated one not.  Both got Covid.  One got super sick (might have died actually).   The other had mild symptoms.  

If you had to bet your life savings on which one was vaccinated, which would you pick?

Obviously super small sample size but if they could do with with more sets of twins somehow we could POTENTIALLY show the anti-vax folks some data they might care about.  

But neither died, right? So, the vaccine did nothing. Besides, my sister’s boyfriend’s best friend’s cousin’s mother’s niece’s friend saw Ferris die due to the vaccine in 31 flavors yesterday.

 

[ghostguy123]

But neither died, right? So, the vaccine did nothing. Besides, my sister’s boyfriend’s best friend’s cousin’s mother’s niece’s friend saw Ferris die due to the vaccine in 31 flavors yesterday.

Yes he died.  However, even if he had pulled through to say the vaccine did nothing would be disingenuous at best.

 

[ghostguy123]

The only thing that changes their minds is when someone they know dies.

Not even sure THAT is helping enough.

Some of them are dying themselves and still in denial to the last artificial breath.

 

[stbugs]

Yes he died.  However, even if he had pulled through to say the vaccine did nothing would be disingenuous at best.

Did you read the rest of my post? I think you misread it.

 

[ghostguy123]

Did you read the rest of my post? I think you misread it.

Something about ice cream?

 

[stbugs]

Something about ice cream?

Yes. It was a joke. I was trying to respond to you like an anti-vaxxer.

 

[ghostguy123]

Yes. It was a joke. I was trying to respond to you like an anti-vaxxer.

I guess you weren't as over the top silly as they are.  Try harder

 

[stbugs]

I guess you weren't as over the top silly as they are.  Try harder

I thought the Ferris reference was perfect for some of the anecdotes we hear from anti-vax folks.

I probably could have added a horse and alien DNA into the story. 

 

[fatness]

I wonder how many people who said "it's not even fully FDA approved yet!" went out and got their Pfizer after it got fully approved?

I have no idea how many people overall did that, but my sister whom I've been urging to get vaccinated and always said "no thanks" got the Pfizer shot the day it was announced that it got full approval.

 

[fatness]

Funny you should ask:

Vaccine hesitancy by education level

Already debunked. They revised that data, because people were falsifying their Facebook credentials.

So far, every link I've seen him post about COVID-related things has been debunked.

 

[Ilov80s]

I have no idea how many people overall did that, but my sister whom I've been urging to get vaccinated and always said "no thanks" got the Pfizer shot the day it was announced that it got full approval.

That's positive to hear. 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Incredible.

The same people harping on others for not following the science, not listening to the doctors, etc are going against the current recommendations and getting boosters.

Nothing hypocritical about that.

This is a fair perspective.   I didn’t see anyone seriously respond to this, but maybe I missed it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

This is a fair perspective.   I didn’t see anyone seriously respond to this, but maybe I missed it.

It was directed at me, but I just didn't feel like engaging.

FWIW, I've never been in the "blindly follow whatever guidelines the CDC is pulling out of its ###" camp.  I was pro-mask while the CDC was telling people not to wear masks.  I ditched my mask after vaccination (well, a little after vaccination technically) and haven't bothered wearing one again.  I looked at the data and decided a booster was right for me, considering my travel plans for the fall.  It doesn't matter to me whether the CDC or FDA approves of my decision or not -- they can get bent.

I understand that "I do my own research" gets routinely shat upon for good reason, because most people who use that line are just fishing for "research" that confirms whatever their priors happened to be.  I'm not like that.  I don't have any cherished priors to confirm, and I'm pretty well qualified to do my own research on this issue with the appropriate level of epistemological humility.  Nothing inherently wrong with taking informed agency for one's own medical decisions.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

It was directed at me, but I just didn't feel like engaging.

FWIW, I've never been in the "blindly follow whatever guidelines the CDC is pulling out of its ###" camp.  I was pro-mask while the CDC was telling people not to wear masks.  I ditched my mask after vaccination (well, a little after vaccination technically) and haven't bothered wearing one again.  I looked at the data and decided a booster was right for me, considering my travel plans for the fall.  It doesn't matter to me whether the CDC or FDA approves of my decision or not -- they can get bent.

I understand that "I do my own research" gets routinely shat upon for good reason, because most people who use that line are just fishing for "research" that confirms whatever their priors happened to be.  I'm not like that.  I don't have any cherished priors to confirm, and I'm pretty well qualified to do my own research on this issue with the appropriate level of epistemological humility.  Nothing inherently wrong with taking informed agency for one's own medical decisions.

Thx for the reply.  I actually didn’t think the comment was 100% directed at you.  It seemed like a comment directed at a multitude of people, some of whom have been dismissive of any apparent inclination toward independent thinking.  I wouldn’t have put you in that category.

It is interesting though.  There are folks in here who have been disinterested in contrarian perspectives that defy bureaucratic directives but who will gladly get a 3rd shot that isn’t recommended for them yet.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

It is interesting though.  There are folks in here who have been disinterested in contrarian perspectives that defy bureaucratic directives but who will gladly get a 3rd shot that isn’t recommended for them yet.

Yeah, but most of the "contrarian perspectives" are just objectively dumb.  Like "the vaccines are dangerous -- give me that horse de-wormer, please."  I very rarely speak to that argument because it's not interesting.  The argument for boosters has more legitimate pros vs. cons which makes more engaging to sink your teeth into.

 

[jobarules]

It was directed at me, but I just didn't feel like engaging.

FWIW, I've never been in the "blindly follow whatever guidelines the CDC is pulling out of its ###" camp.  I was pro-mask while the CDC was telling people not to wear masks.  I ditched my mask after vaccination (well, a little after vaccination technically) and haven't bothered wearing one again.  I looked at the data and decided a booster was right for me, considering my travel plans for the fall.  It doesn't matter to me whether the CDC or FDA approves of my decision or not -- they can get bent.

I understand that "I do my own research" gets routinely shat upon for good reason, because most people who use that line are just fishing for "research" that confirms whatever their priors happened to be.  I'm not like that.  I don't have any cherished priors to confirm, and I'm pretty well qualified to do my own research on this issue with the appropriate level of epistemological humility.  Nothing inherently wrong with taking informed agency for one's own medical decisions.

Comment wasn't directed at you at all

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Comment wasn't directed at you at all

Sorry.  My narcissism was acting up I guess.

 

[rockaction]

FWIW, I've never been in the "blindly follow whatever guidelines the CDC is pulling out of its ###" camp.  I was pro-mask while the CDC was telling people not to wear masks.  I ditched my mask after vaccination (well, a little after vaccination technically) and haven't bothered wearing one again.  I looked at the data and decided a booster was right for me, considering my travel plans for the fall.  It doesn't matter to me whether the CDC or FDA approves of my decision or not -- they can get bent.

Once one recognizes the CDC is a political body, then one can proceed with that in mind.

Problem is that there seems to be no central, dispassionate entity to instruct people on what is right and most have to use their common or intellectual sense. What this has shown me is how little of both people have.

No wonder the world marvels at our dominance. We are a truly stupid country.

We just -- so far -- have refrained from killing each other over trivialities, unlike most of Europe, Asia, Africa, and South America.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Yeah, but most of the "contrarian perspectives" are just objectively dumb.  Like "the vaccines are dangerous -- give me that horse de-wormer, please."  I very rarely speak to that argument because it's not interesting.  The argument for boosters has more legitimate pros vs. cons which makes more engaging to sink your teeth into.

No disagreement

 

[IC FBGCav]

Once one recognizes the CDC is a political body, then one can proceed with that in mind.

Problem is that there seems to be no central, dispassionate entity to instruct people on what is right and most have to use their common or intellectual sense. What this has shown me is how little of both people have.

No wonder the world marvels at our dominance. We are a truly stupid country.

We just -- so far -- have refrained from killing each other over trivialities, unlike most of Europe, Asia, Africa, and South America.

I just wonder why hundreds of millions were spent by government entities to promote the shot rather than using the public service announcement system for free.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Already debunked. They revised that data, because people were falsifying their Facebook credentials.

Also, you know who receives more training than PhDs? Physicians. Wanna guess how many of them are vaccine skeptics?

I believe I read that they were also ONLY showing the question to PhDs and above, so that would rather skew the results as well  

 

[ghostguy123]

Fauci needs to go.  Nobody trusts him, and I dont like his face.  

On a side note, as much as I would like people to get the vaccine, mandating it for healthcare workers is a giant mistake.  The fallout will be..........real bad.

 

[fatness]

On a side note, as much as I would like people to get the vaccine, mandating it for healthcare workers is a giant mistake.  The fallout will be..........real bad.

Disagree. They'll just get healthcare jobs in states that aren't as interested in protecting patients and staff, whose healthcare staffers are overwhelmed and will get jobs in states that are interested in protecting patients and staff. The marketplace sorts itself out.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Fauci needs to go.  Nobody trusts him, and I dont like his face.  

On a side note, as much as I would like people to get the vaccine, mandating it for healthcare workers is a giant mistake.  The fallout will be..........real bad.

Fauci’s been fine, and I doubt anyone could do much better, given the political environment.

While I have no problem with the vaccine mandate, it will interesting to see how it saddles already short-staffed healthcare facilities. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

Disagree. They'll just get healthcare jobs in states that aren't as interested in protecting patients and staff, whose healthcare staffers are overwhelmed and will get jobs in states that are interested in protecting patients and staff. The marketplace sorts itself out.

While on some level I welcome it, all that sorting takes time, and struggling healthcare facilities don’t have the luxury of delaying new staff recruitment.

 

[[icon]]

This is a fair perspective.   I didn’t see anyone seriously respond to this, but maybe I missed it.

Likely was directed at me, and I don't think it's hypocritical at all.

Booster vaccines were shown safe and effective by Israeli trials/roll out. The data has shown protections CAN begin waning around the 6 month mark in multiple studies (age/individual dependent), which is why the rest of the world seems to be gravitating toward that number.

Science should not be influenced by politics, and certainly shouldn't be xenophobic. 

Just because our CDC is slow on the draw (yet again ) doesn't mean the science doesn't exist. Blindly following our CDC without considering global data from countries who are leading the way would be foolish, IMO. 
 

Definitely not a fair perspective IMO. Particularly considering the source's history/stance regarding this virus.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

On a side note, as much as I would like people to get the vaccine, mandating it for healthcare workers is a giant mistake.  The fallout will be..........real bad.

If any healthcare workers want to quit over being mandated to receive a life-saving vaccine, they're welcome to leave.  I feel about as bad for them as I do for police officers who quit because they don't want to wear a body cam.  Sometimes its good to weed certain people out of your work force.

See also, teachers who refuse to get vaccinated.

 

[Terminalxylem]

If any healthcare workers want to quit over being mandated to receive a life-saving vaccine, they're welcome to leave.  I feel about as bad for them as I do for police officers who quit because they don't want to wear a body cam.  Sometimes its good to weed certain people out of your work force.

See also, teachers who refuse to get vaccinated.

I agree in principle, but many hospitals can’t afford to lose workers atm, even irrational ones.

 

[[icon]]

I agree in principle, but many hospitals can’t afford to lose workers atm, even irrational ones.

Yep. Sadly this is the catch right now. Getting a new wave of nursing staff would take years to properly recruit and train. 

 

[ghostguy123]

If any healthcare workers want to quit over being mandated to receive a life-saving vaccine, they're welcome to leave.  I feel about as bad for them as I do for police officers who quit because they don't want to wear a body cam.  Sometimes its good to weed certain people out of your work force.

See also, teachers who refuse to get vaccinated.

Slightly different because the nurses actually wear PPE.

Mandating eventually may be ok but right now, not good.

As mentioned by the other guy, yeah the "market place" will eventually sort itself out, but this isnt a typical marketplace.  You cant just close up shop and sort things out.  Sick people cant wait.  

An already strained system will now have less staff and the patient numbers will continue to rise.  

It will be very ugly.  Careful what you wish for and pray you dont get sick during that stretch of time.  I don't mean with Covid, I mean with ANY illness or injury.  

 

[parasaurolophus]

I agree in principle, but many hospitals can’t afford to lose workers atm, even irrational ones.

Unvaccinated hospital workers could very well be spreading this like wildfire. 

Italy part two.