Will you get a Covid vaccine when available? (3 Viewers)

[beer 30]

I get that, but it's not being "forced" (at least not up until this point for most).

If you see your doctor and they say you have high blood pressure and you need to start a medication for it, that's not forcing you. 

If you see your doctor and they say you have diabetes and you need to start a medication for it, that's not forcing you. 

If you see your doctor and they say you have an infection and you need to start an antibiotic for it, that's not forcing you. 

If you see your doctor and they say you have appendicitis and you need to have surgery for it, that's not forcing you.

All of the above are just medical advice that most people follow because it makes sense to follow the advice to do so.

But if you see your doctor and they say you should get this vaccine because it's the consensus recommendation from infectious disease experts, that's forcing you? 

I just don't understand.

Pffft, you doctors with your logic and sense. Just stop will you?

In NYC, you are effectively being forced to now. You can't goto a restaurant or movie or gym without showing proof of vaccine. Most city employees are now forced to vaccinate or lose their jobs.

Companies can dictate requirements for employment, right? Because someone made a choice to do or not to do something shouldn't require everyone else to change their behavior to accommodate that person when it goes against what that entity feels is the correct path to go down.

Your personal choice has consequences. If you chose not to get vaccinated that's fine, just realize what goes along with that decision and protest not being allowed to party with the crowd who chose differently.

 

[Doug B]

And I was told by the person in charge (The Boss) there is a difference between a Covid booster and a 3rd shot. What??

This is legit -- Biff84 is a pharmacist, and explains the difference in this thread a few posts up:

The best way that I’ve found to explain it to customers: two things are happening now - a change in protocol for immunocompromised people and a booster for the general public. The current recommendations are:

1. Three doses are recommended for immunocompromised people with the third dose recommended at least 28 days after the second. This is because their immune system doesn’t react enough to just two doses.

2. The general public is recommended to get a booster shot after at least 8 months because of fading protection over time.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Question for you. Appreciate all your comments and way more importantly, all the work you have to do right now taking care of people.

When you were hired, did your company already have some vaccines that were required for employment?
@Nathan R. Jessep  Same question for you please. Thanks!

It was so long ago (going on 23 years now), I honestly don't remember   but I don't think so. If they did, it was the required ones for attending school/college, which I of course had. No flu vaccine mandate for sure, because I've never had a flu shot. 

ETA: after seeing the other discussion, for disclosure, I don't work at a hospital

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

So I went to get my Covid booster this morning. Didn't get it. Not available yet. Whoever I talked to last week was wrong in telling me where, when and that I could get it.  Was told 7am. Wrong. 8am. Was told today that more people gave the same story and they wonder who it was giving out the false info. They all work for the same employer so obviously everyone isn't on the same page. And I was told by the person in charge (The Boss) there is a difference between a Covid booster and a 3rd shot. What?? Whatever. I will get called when I can get it. Won't be long.

Except for the immunocompromised (sorry can't remember if that's you or not from previous discussion),  any other third-dose apparently falls under "off label" use, which currently violates the vaccine provider agreement that they all had to agree to. 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/pfizer-bioNTech-faqs.html#off-label-use

No. Off label use of the COMIRNATY/Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is not authorized at this time. The Administration is preparing systems and logistics to be able to offer COVID-19 booster shots to fully vaccinated adults this fall. The regulatory and clinical details of this booster plan are contingent on FDA conducting an independent evaluation and determination of the safety and effectiveness of a third dose of the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) and CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) issuing recommendations based on a thorough review of the evidence when those recommendations are adopted by the CDC Director.

An additional dose for individuals beyond those with certain conditions associated with immunocompromise would be an off-label use at this time. Administration of the product off label may not be covered under the PREP Act or the PREP Act declaration; therefore, providers may not have immunity from claims. Individuals who receive a third dose may not be eligible for compensation after a possible adverse event. Such use also would be in violation of the CDC COVID-19 Vaccination Program provider agreement and therefore may not be reimbursable, and may impact the ability of a provider to remain in the CDC Program, in addition to other potential sanctions. Administration fees for off-label doses may not be reimbursed by payers.

 

[belljr]

I remember my very first job, we had a 37.5 hour work week.  Basically, 8-4 but you got a half hour for lunch. Then after I was there a year they changed it to 40 hours.   So 8-4:30....

That was a cluster of many angry employees.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Do those employers require those things AFTER you are hired?

Did COVID exist when you were hired?

 

[yak651]

Imagine there being a pandemic that’s killed 600,000 people and still being dumb enough to lose your job bc you wouldn’t get vaccinated. 

And being a healthcare worker...

 

[BigJim®]

Good judgment and ability to adapt to change are key skills that may be easier for employers to screen now.

 

[ericttspikes]

Except for the immunocompromised (sorry can't remember if that's you or not from previous discussion),  any other third-dose apparently falls under "off label" use, which currently violates the vaccine provider agreement that they all had to agree to. 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/pfizer-bioNTech-faqs.html#off-label-use

No. Off label use of the COMIRNATY/Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is not authorized at this time. The Administration is preparing systems and logistics to be able to offer COVID-19 booster shots to fully vaccinated adults this fall. The regulatory and clinical details of this booster plan are contingent on FDA conducting an independent evaluation and determination of the safety and effectiveness of a third dose of the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) and CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) issuing recommendations based on a thorough review of the evidence when those recommendations are adopted by the CDC Director.

An additional dose for individuals beyond those with certain conditions associated with immunocompromise would be an off-label use at this time. Administration of the product off label may not be covered under the PREP Act or the PREP Act declaration; therefore, providers may not have immunity from claims. Individuals who receive a third dose may not be eligible for compensation after a possible adverse event. Such use also would be in violation of the CDC COVID-19 Vaccination Program provider agreement and therefore may not be reimbursable, and may impact the ability of a provider to remain in the CDC Program, in addition to other potential sanctions. Administration fees for off-label doses may not be reimbursed by payers.

So who sets the booster guidelines? The CDC? They are already saying to wait 8 months for a booster when data shows waning efficacy in the 4-6 month range. The FDA and CDC should get out of the way and let people work with their doctors for their healthcare needs.

Also love the language here by the CDC. More fuel for antivaxxers. Talking about "compensation for possible adverse effects". Either it's safe enough for people or not. And if it is safe enough, off label use should be allowed at doctors discretion and the patients willingness to take it. I also think most people don't have a problem paying for a $20 vaccine out of pocket if they want it. Winter is going to be brutal with the CDC and FDA bumbling through this.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

So who sets the booster guidelines? The CDC? They are already saying to wait 8 months for a booster when data shows waning efficacy in the 4-6 month range. The FDA and CDC should get out of the way and let people work with their doctors for their healthcare needs.

Also love the language here by the CDC. More fuel for antivaxxers. Talking about "compensation for possible adverse effects". Either it's safe enough for people or not. And if it is safe enough, off label use should be allowed at doctors discretion and the patients willingness to take it. I also think most people don't have a problem paying for a $20 vaccine out of pocket if they want it. Winter is going to be brutal with the CDC and FDA bumbling through this.

Idk. The announcement of possible booster recommendation last week or whenever that was has been met with a good bit of resistance from a fairly large number of medical personnel. The official announcement, if they don't change their mind, is to come in September, IIRC. 

also AAP highly recommends local docs NOT try to dose younger kids for off-label use at this time, which seems wise since they are still trying to nail down dosage in the trials for that age group 

American Academy of Pediatrics Cautions Against Off-Label Use of COVID-19 Vaccines in Children Under 12

 

[AAABatteries]

The NYC teacher could probably move to Florida and teach at Capella’s preschool. 

 

 

[Wingnut]

Broke down and just got the J&J shot... about 2 hours ago...my head feels a bit fuzzy, and nodes behind my ears are a little sore. I'm hoping that's the extent of side effects I get, the girlfriend had zero symptoms of any side effects when she got it.

So last night was a little rough. Tried to work but had to cut my night short and come home early. Had flu like symptoms - body aches all over, slight fever...woke up in the middle of the night completely soaking wet with sweat, throbbing headache, chills and couldnt get comfy. Took some ibuprofen and went back to bed. Fever broke at some point and I woke up feeling much better.

Somehow I knew I'd have some sort of reaction to it, but it seems the worst part is over. 

 

[skol asylum]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRjgSTax/

 

[The Man With No Name]

This is legit -- Biff84 is a pharmacist, and explains the difference in this thread a few posts up:

Ok. So I was going to get/will get a 3rd shot. Pfizer is what I had and what they have - confirmed that this morning. Am Type 1 diabetic

 

[ghostguy123]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRjgSTax/

Lol

 

[Biff84]

So who sets the booster guidelines? The CDC? They are already saying to wait 8 months for a booster when data shows waning efficacy in the 4-6 month range. The FDA and CDC should get out of the way and let people work with their doctors for their healthcare needs.

Also love the language here by the CDC. More fuel for antivaxxers. Talking about "compensation for possible adverse effects". Either it's safe enough for people or not. And if it is safe enough, off label use should be allowed at doctors discretion and the patients willingness to take it. I also think most people don't have a problem paying for a $20 vaccine out of pocket if they want it. Winter is going to be brutal with the CDC and FDA bumbling through this.

Typically it will be the vaccine manufacture who decides on dosing regimens based on their trials. The CDC and FDA are heavily involved right now because we’re dealing with it right now on the fly.

The process is typically:

1. Drug company develops vaccine, does testing, makes a dosing regimen and does trials based on that regimen.

2. FDA reviews that data for safety and efficacy and approved it based on that regimen.

3. A branch of the FDA - ACIP will further review the studies and decide who it should be recommended by. These recommendations are what allows pharmacies to administer without a prescription. Insurance companies also use these recommendations to determine coverage. So a vaccine could be approved for an age range but that doesn’t mean you can get it at your pharmacy or have the insurance pay for it.

The CDC is heavily involved because the need for the vaccine is evolving based on the current events, something the manufacturers couldn’t have studied. They are using of study data, variant trends and current needs determine a strategy. It’s not always going to be perfect.

I think the 8 months is simply to ration the care similar to the beginning of vaccinations. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that 8 months before the start of the booster shots is right when the first group in the general public would become eligible. The first couple months they will go 8 months as those are the people that need it the most and likely have the highest demand. As we go into December, I’d expected to change it 6 months to look something like:

September: 2nd dose in January

October: 2nd dose in February

November: 2nd dose in March

December: 2nd dose in April-June

Doing 6 months right out of the gate would be chaos. Opening it up to a free-for-all would be even worse. I do hope they start opening up more avenues for doctors to write scripts so that certain populations can get boosters.

 

[DallasDMac]

The best way that I’ve found to explain it to customers: two things are happening now - a change in protocol for immunocompromised people and a booster for the general public. The current recommendations are:

1. Three doses are recommended for immunocompromised people with the third dose recommended at least 28 days after the second. This is because their immune system doesn’t react enough to just two doses.

2. The general public is recommended to get a booster shot after at least 8 months because of fading protection over time.

I do believe that the recommendation will change to booster after 6 months. I think 8 months was chosen to avoid having a large chunk of the population become eligible all at once.

Thanks Biff. This was how I understood it at first (same vaccine, just timing). Then my wife and the news outlets started to convince me there actually was a difference. C'mon October, I'll be at the front of the line for dose three just like I was for dose one.

 

[gianmarco]

Delta to charge higher health premiums for unvaccinated.

This is a great way forward, IMO.

 

[KarmaPolice]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRjgSTax/

Awesome. 

 

[In The Zone]

So last night was a little rough. Tried to work but had to cut my night short and come home early. Had flu like symptoms - body aches all over, slight fever...woke up in the middle of the night completely soaking wet with sweat, throbbing headache, chills and couldnt get comfy. Took some ibuprofen and went back to bed. Fever broke at some point and I woke up feeling much better.

Somehow I knew I'd have some sort of reaction to it, but it seems the worst part is over. 

This sounds about like the symptoms I had after getting the J&J. After 3 days I felt a lot better. After that I only had some soreness in my arm from the shot. That lasted about 9 days total. 

GL GB. 

 

[DA RAIDERS]

since we have an influx of people, just getting the shot, here were my side effects.  very sore arm, starting 6ish hours after the shot.  lasting 24-36 hours.  same for both shots.  no other side effects.  team pfizer

 

[jobarules]

Delta to charge higher health premiums for unvaccinated.

This is a great way forward, IMO.

I'm down with that

 

[Wingnut]

This sounds about like the symptoms I had after getting the J&J. After 3 days I felt a lot better. After that I only had some soreness in my arm from the shot. That lasted about 9 days total. 

GL GB. 

Yesterday I still felt rough til about dinner time...ended up working last night, and today I feel back to normal other than soreness in my arm.

So, about 30 hours of sucky side effects. 

 

[[icon]]

Monday I Boosted Moderna @ CVS 

Roughly 6.5mo after 2nd shot. No pushback by nurse. No lines so not like I'm taking anyone's spot. 

- 99.5F + fatigue the next day and a half.... 3 Tylenol fixed it. All better. 
 

Had taken Antibody test (CVS $28) last week and positive for antibodies negative for recent natural COVID infection. 
 

They're now apparently about to announce a 6month interval approval    

 

[Biff84]

Typically it will be the vaccine manufacture who decides on dosing regimens based on their trials. The CDC and FDA are heavily involved right now because we’re dealing with it right now on the fly.

The process is typically:

1. Drug company develops vaccine, does testing, makes a dosing regimen and does trials based on that regimen.

2. FDA reviews that data for safety and efficacy and approved it based on that regimen.

3. A branch of the FDA - ACIP will further review the studies and decide who it should be recommended by. These recommendations are what allows pharmacies to administer without a prescription. Insurance companies also use these recommendations to determine coverage. So a vaccine could be approved for an age range but that doesn’t mean you can get it at your pharmacy or have the insurance pay for it.

The CDC is heavily involved because the need for the vaccine is evolving based on the current events, something the manufacturers couldn’t have studied. They are using of study data, variant trends and current needs determine a strategy. It’s not always going to be perfect.

I think the 8 months is simply to ration the care similar to the beginning of vaccinations. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that 8 months before the start of the booster shots is right when the first group in the general public would become eligible. The first couple months they will go 8 months as those are the people that need it the most and likely have the highest demand. As we go into December, I’d expected to change it 6 months to look something like:

September: 2nd dose in January

October: 2nd dose in February

November: 2nd dose in March

December: 2nd dose in April-June

Doing 6 months right out of the gate would be chaos. Opening it up to a free-for-all would be even worse. I do hope they start opening up more avenues for doctors to write scripts so that certain populations can get boosters.

Well sounds like they are going to recommend booster after 6 months. So when September 20th hits, anyone who had their 2nd dose before March 20th will be eligible. Remember how hard it was to get the vaccine when it was being restricted to 65+? Now take away the mass vaccination sites and put it all on the pharmacies. I hope they have a plan because we’re gonna get thousands of calls asking what it is.

 

[Judge Smails]

One of our holdouts said he would get the vaccine if it's FDA approved.  Then when it was approved, he said it was "politically approved", and he has to stick to his principles.  He will be doing that for a different company on September 1.  Bye bye.

 

[AAABatteries]

One of our holdouts said he would get the vaccine if it's FDA approved.  Then when it was approved, he said it was "politically approved", and he has to stick to his principles.  He will be doing that for a different company on September 1.  Bye bye.

Love that the guy is a proven liar who has to stick to his principles.  I guess lying or being a selfish jerk aren’t included in his list of principles but ignoring the medical advice of the majority of experts is - lol.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

We mandated vaccines for customer facing personnel calling on hospitals.  We had 3 holdouts.  All said they would get shots if FDA approved.  Now we'll see.  I think they won't. Bluff has been called though.

Yep.  Any excuse in a storm.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Yesterday I still felt rough til about dinner time...ended up working last night, and today I feel back to normal other than soreness in my arm.

So, about 30 hours of sucky side effects. 

Sorry you had the side effects.  On the other hand, your immune system is on the job.  You have tangible proof.

Just wait until you start growing a tail.  That's when the fun really starts.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Monday I Boosted Moderna @ CVS 

Roughly 6.5mo after 2nd shot. No pushback by nurse. No lines so not like I'm taking anyone's spot. 

- 99.5F + fatigue the next day and a half.... 3 Tylenol fixed it. All better. 
 

Had taken Antibody test (CVS $28) last week and positive for antibodies negative for recent natural COVID infection. 
 

They're now apparently about to announce a 6month interval approval    

1) did you have effects from dose #2 (I.e. how did #3 compare to #2 for you?)

2) does that antibody test give you a level or just a yesno? 

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

where you guys seeing the 6-month booster recommendation talk? Last I saw late last week, it was going to be 8 months. 

 

[BigJim®]

One of our holdouts said he would get the vaccine if it's FDA approved.  Then when it was approved, he said it was "politically approved", and he has to stick to his principles.  He will be doing that for a different company on September 1.  Bye bye.

Most predictable pivot ever.

 

[The Z Machine]

My wife is faculty at a school of public health at a big university.  She said that 98% of faculty and 85% of staff were fully vaccinated.  I have to wonder... who is a faculty member in a school of public health that is unvaccinated?  Must be for medical or religious reasons.

 

[[icon]]

1) did you have effects from dose #2 (I.e. how did #3 compare to #2 for you?)

2) does that antibody test give you a level or just a yesno? 

Antibody Test : was a simple pass/fail for the two antibody types unfortunately. Still useful for those curious if they still had some degree of protection. 

Breakdown of my vax symptoms: 

#1) Nada really, sore arm 

#2) 36 hours of aches, moderate fever (101) and fatigue. 

#3) 24hrs of light fever (99.5) and less fatigue. 

 

[[icon]]

where you guys seeing the 6-month booster recommendation talk? Last I saw late last week, it was going to be 8 months. 

It's popping up all over now. quick search should yield fruit. Right now it's just a "strategic leak" 

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Antibody Test : was a simple pass/fail for the two antibody types unfortunately. Still useful for those curious if they still had some degree of protection. 

Breakdown of my vax symptoms: 

#1) Nada really, sore arm 

#2) 36 hours of aches, moderate fever (101) and fatigue. 

#3) 24hrs of light fever (99.5) and less fatigue. 

Good to know thanks. I think I had read about boosters in Israel having similar symptoms for folks as #2 did. 

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Apparently only the WSJ is reporting the 6-month recc.  All the other reports seem to be referring to that. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-administration-plans-covid-19-vaccine-boosters-at-six-months-instead-of-eight-11629919356

 

[Doug B]

where you guys seeing the 6-month booster recommendation talk? Last I saw late last week, it was going to be 8 months. 

It's popping up all over now. quick search should yield fruit. Right now it's just a "strategic leak" 

It's not really underground at this point: Reuters, Wall Street Journal. Not official at the moment, but these kinds of leaks have typically panned out for COVID-related matters.

However, for most people in the U.S., getting the booster right now depends on the specific gatekeeping in your state and at your providers. Some people will try and run out and get a booster now, and get denied. Depends where, when, and if you catch the right person at the right time.

 

[The Z Machine]

Some people will try and run out and get a booster now, and get denied.

If there's excess capacity, why would a provider deny them?

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

If there's excess capacity, why would a provider deny them?

because they sign an agreement to give vaccines, and as it's worded right now a booster for general public is in direct violation of that contract. I think I linked the policy somewhere in this thread or the vax thread

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I want my booster/third-dose, but I really want approval for kids to happen ASAP before things get out of hand at schools.

 

[Poke_4_Life]

I want my booster/third-dose, but I really want approval for kids to happen ASAP before things get out of hand at schools.

Too late...

 

[Doug B]

Some people will try and run out and get a booster now, and get denied.

If there's excess capacity, why would a provider deny them?

Aside from what Nathan wrote:

1) Individual volition -- if you're at a provider asking for a booster, and that provider believes they're breaking the rules to give you a booster now ... they won't give it to you and you don't really have recourse.

2) Recordkeeping -- apparently states vary a lot with their vaccination recordkeeping. Here in Louisiana, records are too complete for me to easily pull a ruse that gets me a booster right now. Any provider would know exactly when I've gotten my shots and whether or not I'm an immunocompromised person.

 

[Capella]

My wife is faculty at a school of public health at a big university.  She said that 98% of faculty and 85% of staff were fully vaccinated.  I have to wonder... who is a faculty member in a school of public health that is unvaccinated?  Must be for medical or religious reasons.

what are the religious reasons? When did Jesus say you shouldn’t what’s best to stay healthy?

 

[The Z Machine]

what are the religious reasons? When did Jesus say you shouldn’t what’s best to stay healthy?

They might be some Christian Scientists or some Pagans or something... who knows.  

 

[jm192]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRjgSTax/

love this. 

 

[jm192]

Adding a vaccine mandate AFTER you are hired is a lot different than making it a requirement of being hired.

Not really. 

 

[Doug B]

Xavier University tells students who aren’t fully vaccinated they’re no longer enrolled (Fox 8 New Orleans, 8/25/2021)

Xavier University is not a college sports power or anything, but it's one of the major commuter colleges in the New Orleans area -- a historically-Black Catholic university. Xavier houses one of the two pharmacy programs in the state (the other 4 hours north at Northeastern Louisiana).

NEW ORLEANS (WVUE) - In an effort to have classes as normal as possible, Xavier University leaders are telling unvaccinated students they can’t attend fall classes. The Vice President of Administration and the Chief of Staff Patrice Bell says unvaccinated students are getting notifications this week, “they will be notified that they do not have health clearance and that they will not be able to join us the effective end of this week,” Bell said.

“I think it’s unfair to unenroll them because they still need their education. But I can see both sides,” said sophomore Elise Tookes. “They’re trying to protect the students that they have on campus and they’re trying to make it normal for us as much as possible.”

“I feel like that in itself is crazy,” said fourth-year Kalif Brown.

The university issued the mandate this summer alerting students and staff before the start of classes. In an April letter to the university, President Reynold Verret writes officials are updating immunization requirements to include COVID-19 vaccines, “this health policy update means that, with limited exceptions, all students planning to attend in the Fall 2021 semester must be fully vaccinated unless granted a limited exception for documented medical or religious reasons. Vaccine,” Verret writes in the letter.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Xavier University tells students who aren’t fully vaccinated they’re no longer enrolled (Fox 8 New Orleans, 8/25/2021)

Xavier University is not a college sports power or anything, but it's one of the major commuter colleges in the New Orleans area -- a historically-Black Catholic university. Xavier houses one of the two pharmacy programs in the state (the other 4 hours north at Northeastern Louisiana).

wow.  that's bold.  i wonder what's a valid religious reason?

 

[The Commish]

what are the religious reasons? When did Jesus say you shouldn’t what’s best to stay healthy?

Scientology is a "religion"....those crazies over there by you are SURE to not be vaccinated.  I'm honestly surprised we haven't heard of major problems out of the Clearwater area.