William Green or Lee Suggs? (1 Viewer)

[Marc Levin]

No worries about piling on - question us when we are wrong. It DOES happen.

Just watch your tone, as they happen to be a little thin in the skin.

remind me never to listen to Levin's opinions again. You could at least watch a player before declaring yourself an authority on his talent level.

That's two - one try for one more?

 

[moderated]

I watched him enough in college to understand his talent - he had good speed, from my memory of him, along with good vision at the point of attack, and breakaway ability - both breaking tackles and outdistancing opponents. These are traits he has demonstrated in the NFL.

I agree with you that he has those traits. I just wasn't seeing the hands trait.Maybe he will be shown to have great hands and that he just wasn't used as a reciever in college, my only point was that at the present time his hands are viewed as a weakness.

 

[jurb26]

Nobody said Suggs is Hall of fame bound from the two games he played. But how many games do you need to see to recognize that a guy has talent? If you never heard of Tomlinson and watched him play for an entire game, would it be safe to say that you could tell he was talented?Disclaimer: I AM NOT SAYING Suggs is as good as Tomlinson. Again, i am not comparing Suggs to Tomlinson in anyway, i was just using LT as an example.

I understand what you are saying BS and the comment wasn't directed at you or anyone inparticular. We are dealing with an VERY SMALL sample size here though. I know you well enough to know that you don't need me to list a bunch of guys to have had only a few good games. Needless to say, the pimping is too much. He played one freakin game and did well, big deal. His other game vs. Balt was nothing but average. Rodgers was a #1 pick and had far more games to gage his ability on yet I see not even a speckle of the pimping for him and his situation is FAR better. I'm all for finding tallent before it breaks out but at this point I don't even think that is possible for Suggs anymore.

 

[Marc Levin]

I watched him enough in college to understand his talent - he had good speed, from my memory of him, along with good vision at the point of attack, and breakaway ability - both breaking tackles and outdistancing opponents. These are traits he has demonstrated in the NFL.

I agree with you that he has those traits. I just wasn't seeing the hands trait.Maybe he will be shown to have great hands and that he just wasn't used as a reciever in college, my only point was that at the present time his hands are viewed as a weakness.

And, the Browns almost never throw to the primary back - they have always had a "specialist" (Jamel White). Will that change with White gone? Is JJax the receiving/3rd down back? I simply don't know right now. I would like some training camp reports before deciding if either of these guys will ever be a dual threat.My inclination right now is to hope for a G from either on the ground and be happy with one of them showing a propensity to punch it in - a problem for the Browns in recent years. That outlook doesn't bode well for either being a reliable fantasy option - especially in 2004 when the Browns face one of, if not THE, most brutal run D schedules - without receiving numbers to supplement the rushing numbers, and relying on running the ball to get points against Pitt, Baltimore, Buffalo, Miami and NE this year, I have little hope for any Brown back in 2004.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Nobody said Suggs is Hall of fame bound from the two games he played. But how many games do you need to see to recognize that a guy has talent? If you never heard of Tomlinson and watched him play for an entire game, would it be safe to say that you could tell he was talented?Disclaimer: I AM NOT SAYING Suggs is as good as Tomlinson. Again, i am not comparing Suggs to Tomlinson in anyway, i was just using LT as an example.

I understand what you are saying BS and the comment wasn't directed at you or anyone inparticular. We are dealing with an VERY SMALL sample size here though. I know you well enough to know that you don't need me to list a bunch of guys to have had only a few good games. Needless to say, the pimping is too much. He played one freakin game and did well, big deal. His other game vs. Balt was nothing but average. Rodgers was a #1 pick and had far more games to gage his ability on yet I see not even a speckle of the pimping for him and his situation is FAR better. I'm all for finding tallent before it breaks out but at this point I don't even think that is possible for Suggs anymore.

LOL, i agree that there is definetly overhyping on both sides(Green and Suggs) If Suggs did what he did for 8-10 games, he would be Kevin Barlow and would be going in the late first, early 2nd of drafts. As far as small sample size, i think that is more important when crunching numbers and not as important when judging talent by watching games.

 

[P Boy]

His knock coming out of college was his lack of hands. And thus far in his career he hasn't shown yet that this was a wrong assessment.

That wasn't the knock on him (besides his injuries). The knock on him regarding his receiving skills was that he played in an offense that didn't throw the ball to its RBs, so his pass catching abilities were never tested on the field.Are we making things up as we go?

 

[joffer]

Nobody said Suggs is Hall of fame bound from the two games he played. But how many games do you need to see to recognize that a guy has talent? If you never heard of Tomlinson and watched him play for an entire game, would it be safe to say that you could tell he was talented?Disclaimer: I AM NOT SAYING Suggs is as good as Tomlinson. Again, i am not comparing Suggs to Tomlinson in anyway, i was just using LT as an example.

I understand what you are saying BS and the comment wasn't directed at you or anyone inparticular. We are dealing with an VERY SMALL sample size here though. I know you well enough to know that you don't need me to list a bunch of guys to have had only a few good games. Needless to say, the pimping is too much. He played one freakin game and did well, big deal. His other game vs. Balt was nothing but average.

If you're talking about purely talent, and not opportunity, both Jones rookies are being drafted ahead of Suggs based on a sample size of ZERO. The way I see it Suggs is essentially a rookie, with two games as a sneak preview, and the reviews on the preview were good.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Nobody said Suggs is Hall of fame bound from the two games he played. But how many games do you need to see to recognize that a guy has talent? If you never heard of Tomlinson and watched him play for an entire game, would it be safe to say that you could tell he was talented?Disclaimer: I AM NOT SAYING Suggs is as good as Tomlinson. Again, i am not comparing Suggs to Tomlinson in anyway, i was just using LT as an example.

I understand what you are saying BS and the comment wasn't directed at you or anyone inparticular. We are dealing with an VERY SMALL sample size here though. I know you well enough to know that you don't need me to list a bunch of guys to have had only a few good games. Needless to say, the pimping is too much. He played one freakin game and did well, big deal. His other game vs. Balt was nothing but average.

If you're talking about purely talent, and not opportunity, both Jones rookies are being drafted ahead of Suggs based on a sample size of ZERO. The way I see it Suggs is essentially a rookie, with two games as a sneak preview, and the reviews on the preview were good.

I think people are having a hard time getting over the fact he was a 4th round pick, which is understandable.

 

[jurb26]

If you're talking about purely talent, and not opportunity, both Jones rookies are being drafted ahead of Suggs based on a sample size of ZERO. The way I see it Suggs is essentially a rookie, with two games as a sneak preview, and the reviews on the preview were good.

Yes but as Marc points out in his formula, they are likely to have the 2nd and KEY ingredient, OPPORTUNITY. Where as Green and Suggs are anyones guess. Plus Det a has made huge strides on O and Dal can't even be compared to Clev in rushing the ball. Parcells/Mooch vs. Davis is another way of looking at it. I think its rather obvious which coaches have had better success at running the ball and finding productive RBs.

 

[joffer]

Yes but as Marc points out in his formula, they are likely to have the 2nd and KEY ingredient, OPPORTUNITY. Where as Green and Suggs are anyones guess. Plus Det a has made huge strides on O and Dal can't even be compared to Clev in rushing the ball. Parcells/Mooch vs. Davis is another way of looking at it. I think its rather obvious which coaches have had better success at running the ball and finding productive RBs.

so let's hypothetically say Suggs is named the starter tomorrow. Where would you draft him relative to Kevin Jones and Julius Jones?

 

[moderated]

That wasn't the knock on him (besides his injuries). The knock on him regarding his receiving skills was that he played in an offense that didn't throw the ball to its RBs, so his pass catching abilities were never tested on the field.

Are we making things up as we go?

I could pull you all the scouting reports on him and under weaknesses every one has recieving ability and route running. Maybe you know more than those that spend their life scouting, but I highly doubt it.You have no clue what your talking about. I don't waste my time with people like you.

He hasn't ever been a recieving RB, therefore unless he has gained that ability it is a weakness of his at this point. Maybe he has all world recieving ability, but if he does he hasn't shown any signs of it up to now.

To argue different is naive.

Class dismissed, you can return to school now son.

Edited: Here is a scouting report I had available, i don't feel like looking for more as they all say the same thing.

Negatives: Lacks great hands and does not run good routes. Can get better at blocking. Durability is a concern, since he had major knee surgery on his left knee in September of ’01 and his right knee scoped in April of ’02 and October of ’99. Not really elusive and more instinctive inside. Cannot juke and lacks make-you-miss in the open field. Not a top outside runner and is better in traffic than the open field. Rarely used in the passing game and needs to develop his hands and route-running.

 

[Marc Levin]

For me, he would still be a decent step behind the Jones boys b/c Suggs, even with named starter status, still could struggle and be replaced mid-year by Green, is still rushing for a team that hasn't had a 1G rusher in 20+ years, and still faces a brutal rush D schedule in 2004.Wile the Joneses could also struggle and be replaced, they would likely earn their way back on the field more easily given the fact that their replacements are guys like Pinner, Bryson, Cason and Anderson - not a former first round pick in Green.

 

[Burning Sensation]

That wasn't the knock on him (besides his injuries). The knock on him regarding his receiving skills was that he played in an offense that didn't throw the ball to its RBs, so his pass catching abilities were never tested on the field.Are we making things up as we go?

I could pull you all the scouting reports on him and under weaknesses every one has recieving ability and route running. Maybe you know more than those that spend their life scouting, but I highly doubt it.You have no clue what your talking about. I don't waste my time with people like you.He hasn't ever been a recieving RB, therefore unless he has gained that ability it is a weakness of his at this point. Maybe he has all world recieving ability, but if he does he hasn't shown any signs of it up to now.To argue different is naive.Class dismissed, you can return to school now son.

While i agree we have no reason to say Suggs is a good pass catcher, dont forget the same things were said about Tomlinson, and he seems to be doing OK.

 

[jurb26]

Yes but as Marc points out in his formula, they are likely to have the 2nd and KEY ingredient, OPPORTUNITY. Where as Green and Suggs are anyones guess. Plus Det a has made huge strides on O and Dal can't even be compared to Clev in rushing the ball. Parcells/Mooch vs. Davis is another way of looking at it. I think its rather obvious which coaches have had better success at running the ball and finding productive RBs.

so let's hypothetically say Suggs is named the starter tomorrow. Where would you draft him relative to Kevin Jones and Julius Jones?

Close but still at least a few spots lower. Any RB that will be the major ball carrier is worth while, even in the wast lands of Clev. However I am of the opinion that both Jones's are of greater tallent and in better situations with their Os. Both of these guys have coaches with far better track records for the postion and productivity. I still place the Jones boys at least a few spots ahead of Suggs or Green if that is the case. Again this is just my opinion though.

 

[moderated]

While i agree we have no reason to say Suggs is a good pass catcher, dont forget the same things were said about Tomlinson, and he seems to be doing OK.

That is all i'm saying. From what is known now Suggs is a weak reciever and doesn't run good routes.Maybe he has it in him to become one, but at this point in time it shouldn't be expected and for Pony Boy to imply that I made up anything about Suggs is pathetic.I own Suggs in 2 leagues and like him, but am realistic and realize that as of now his recieving skills are a weakness.

 

[joffer]

Yes but as Marc points out in his formula, they are likely to have the 2nd and KEY ingredient, OPPORTUNITY.  Where as Green and Suggs are anyones guess.  Plus Det a has made huge strides on O and Dal can't even be compared to Clev in rushing the ball.  Parcells/Mooch vs. Davis is another way of looking at it.  I think its rather obvious which coaches have had better success at running the ball and finding productive RBs.

so let's hypothetically say Suggs is named the starter tomorrow. Where would you draft him relative to Kevin Jones and Julius Jones?

Close but still at least a few spots lower. Any RB that will be the major ball carrier is worth while, even in the wast lands of Clev. However I am of the opinion that both Jones's are of greater tallent and in better situations with their Os. Both of these guys have coaches with far better track

Kevin Jones maybe. Better Situation I'll buy. But I can't imagine what you've seen in Julius Jones that leads you to believe he is any more talented than Lee Suggs.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Yes but as Marc points out in his formula, they are likely to have the 2nd and KEY ingredient, OPPORTUNITY.  Where as Green and Suggs are anyones guess.  Plus Det a has made huge strides on O and Dal can't even be compared to Clev in rushing the ball.  Parcells/Mooch vs. Davis is another way of looking at it.  I think its rather obvious which coaches have had better success at running the ball and finding productive RBs.

so let's hypothetically say Suggs is named the starter tomorrow. Where would you draft him relative to Kevin Jones and Julius Jones?

Close but still at least a few spots lower. Any RB that will be the major ball carrier is worth while, even in the wast lands of Clev. However I am of the opinion that both Jones's are of greater tallent and in better situations with their Os. Both of these guys have coaches with far better track

Kevin Jones maybe. Better Situation I'll buy. But I can't imagine what you've seen in Julius Jones that leads you to believe he is any more talented than Lee Suggs.

 

[jurb26]

Kevin Jones maybe. Better Situation I'll buy. But I can't imagine what you've seen in Julius Jones that leads you to believe he is any more talented than Lee Suggs.

Outside of the Pitt game when he was absolutly amazing, really nothing. Then again though, that was really the only game I watched all the way through of his (not a ND fan at all). I saw bits and pieces of others and saw flashes, but nothing to the magnitude I guess your looking for. I'm banking on the fact that the scouts and NFL coaches (Parcells inparticular) for the most part think so. Jones was a early 2nd rd pick, Suggs 4th. That tells me right there who has greater perceived tallent by guys who make a living on finding it. I realize its very subjective and that these people are at times wrong, but none the less that is where I get my impression from.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Kevin Jones maybe. Better Situation I'll buy. But I can't imagine what you've seen in Julius Jones that leads you to believe he is any more talented than Lee Suggs.

Outside of the Pitt game when he was absolutly amazing, really nothing. Then again though, that was really the only game I watched all the way through of his (not a ND fan at all). I saw bits and pieces of others and saw flashes, but nothing to the magnitude I guess your looking for. I'm banking on the fact that the scouts and NFL coaches (Parcells inparticular) for the most part think so. Jones was a early 2nd rd pick, Suggs 4th. That tells me right there who has greater perceived tallent by guys who make a living on finding it. I realize its very subjective and that these people are at times wrong, but none the less that is where I get my impression from.

Dont tell that to Terrell Davis, Priest Holmes, Curtis Martin, or Ron Dayne, Curtis Enis, Kijana Carter or......nevermind, you get the point.P.S. Suggs was considered a first round pick before tearing his ACL, and Julius was a 2nd round pick.

 

[jurb26]

P.S. Suggs was considered a first round pick before tearing his ACL, and Julius was a 2nd round pick.

Don't tell that to Willis PS: Yeah I do get the point Thats why I said I realize how subjective these can be. Hey I don't expect everyone to agree with me here. If they did this hobby wouldn't be any fun.

 

[P Boy]

Negatives: Lacks great hands and does not run good routes. Can get better at blocking. Durability is a concern, since he had major knee surgery on his left knee in September of ’01 and his right knee scoped in April of ’02 and October of ’99. Not really elusive and more instinctive inside. Cannot juke and lacks make-you-miss in the open field. Not a top outside runner and is better in traffic than the open field. Rarely used in the passing game and needs to develop his hands and route-running.

I could pull you all the scouting reports on him and under weaknesses every one has recieving ability and route running. Maybe you know more than those that spend their life scouting, but I highly doubt it.

You have no clue what your talking about. I don't waste my time with people like you.

He hasn't ever been a recieving RB, therefore unless he has gained that ability it is a weakness of his at this point. Maybe he has all world recieving ability, but if he does he hasn't shown any signs of it up to now.

To argue different is naive.

Class dismissed, you can return to school now son.

Edited: Here is a scouting report I had available, i don't feel like looking for more as they all say the same thing.

LOL.Read your own selection with the bold type changed by me, before you get so sanctimonious & pompous - which I see no evidence as to you having any reasonable right to do, given your comments so far. Or maybe your school that you are teaching doesn't teach reading.

 

[moderated]

LOL.

Read your own selection with the bold type changed by me, before you get so sanctimonious & pompous - which I see no evidence as to you having any reasonable right to do, given your comments so far. Or maybe your school that you are teaching doesn't teach reading.

You have no point and actually emphasize my point.He was rarely used in the passing game, hasn't showed that he has good hands, real NFL scouts have called his hands and route running a weakness.

From what we know now his recieving ability and route running should be considered a weakness, which is what I said and what countless NFL scouts have said. I'm sorry you feel that you know more, it shows your ignorance.

 

[JJ Evans]

That wasn't the knock on him (besides his injuries).  The knock on him regarding his receiving skills was that he played in an offense that didn't throw the ball to its RBs, so his pass catching abilities were never tested on the field.

Are we making things up as we go?

I could pull you all the scouting reports on him and under weaknesses every one has recieving ability and route running. Maybe you know more than those that spend their life scouting, but I highly doubt it.You have no clue what your talking about. I don't waste my time with people like you.

He hasn't ever been a recieving RB, therefore unless he has gained that ability it is a weakness of his at this point. Maybe he has all world recieving ability, but if he does he hasn't shown any signs of it up to now.

To argue different is naive.

Class dismissed, you can return to school now son.

Edited: Here is a scouting report I had available, i don't feel like looking for more as they all say the same thing.

Negatives: Lacks great hands and does not run good routes. Can get better at blocking. Durability is a concern, since he had major knee surgery on his left knee in September of ’01 and his right knee scoped in April of ’02 and October of ’99. Not really elusive and more instinctive inside. Cannot juke and lacks make-you-miss in the open field. Not a top outside runner and is better in traffic than the open field. Rarely used in the passing game and needs to develop his hands and route-running.

Ponyboy, don't miss the bus as class is dismissed... Look here's your bus ===>>> :11:

 

[JJ Evans]

LOL.

Read your own selection with the bold type changed by me, before you get so sanctimonious & pompous - which I see no evidence as to you having any reasonable right to do, given your comments so far. Or maybe your school that you are teaching doesn't teach reading.

You have no point and actually emphasize my point.He was rarely used in the passing game, hasn't showed that he has good hands, real NFL scouts have called his hands and route running a weakness.

From what we know now his recieving ability and route running should be considered a weakness, which is what I said and what countless NFL scouts have said. I'm sorry you feel that you know more, it shows your ignorance.

You're RED HOT today. I got it scored Moderated 2, PonyBoy 0.

 

[P Boy]

You have no point and actually emphasize my point.

He was rarely used in the passing game, hasn't showed that he has good hands, real NFL scouts have called his hands and route running a weakness.

From what we know now his recieving ability and route running should be considered a weakness, which is what I said and what countless NFL scouts have said. I'm sorry you feel that you know more, it shows your ignorance.

Let's discuss ignorance, professor.Suggs possesses solid blocking skills and can catch the ball out of the backfield. He's also a good red-zone back and rarely fumbles.

LINK

Lee Suggs is another player with a serious knee injury in his background. Tore his left anterior ligament and medial meniscus during the 2001 season. Came back to play last season and was very effective, rushing for 1,255 yards on 238 carries and scoring 20 touchdowns. Hardworking athlete with fine speed and quickness. Instintive and has good vision and patience. Runs with good pad level. Good short-yardage and goalline runner. Aggressive. Breaks tackles. Better inside runner than outside guy. Has good hands, but was used little in the passing game in college so he needs a lot of work there

LINK

Negatives: History of knee problems is a concern…Not used much in the passing game, as he tends to round his cuts and has been relegated to simple screens and flats…

LINK

Negatives- I guess you can say durability. Not as explosive as he once was, but he is two years removed from ACL surgery, so that should return. Needs a little work on his receiving.

LINK

*******************************************************************

Now, professor, since you are so much more intelligent than I am, not to mention so smug & condescending - please tell me exactly where in any of these scouting reports where it states that Suggs has bad hands.

I'll wait.....it's worth it to learn from a genius like you.

 

[P Boy]

Maybe your lapdog JJ can help you find it. JJ?

 

[moderated]

Pony, I have trouble debating with ignorance.You just posted reports that back me up again. You are wasting my time. Your lucky my time isn't very valuable or i'd be really angry.I never said that he has BAD hands, I said that at this point we have to look at his recieving ability and route running as a weakness. He has shown absolutely nothing up to this point that would point to him being a good or even adequate reciever.Maybe it will all of a sudden be found out that he is the next Marshall Faulk recieving wise.Maybe I will win the lottery today.Maybe I will get laid by a supermodel.But the bottom line is from what we know now you have to look at his recieving as a weakness, to argue otherwise is....Ponyboyish (ignorant).I am done getting into a flame war with you as it isn't fun for me to debate with someone with a pre-evolutionary brain.Good-day, you've just been Moderated.

 

[Yao Ming]

Too bad we can't just arrange an all-out rumble in a vacant parking lot between William Green owners and Lee Suggs owners. I'd much rather watch that than a Cleveland Browns game.Yao

 

[amnesiac]

Too bad we can't just arrange an all-out rumble in a vacant parking lot between William Green owners and Lee Suggs owners. I'd much rather watch that than a Cleveland Browns game.Yao

At least you can buy beer at a Browns game, come on.

 

[JJ Evans]

Too bad we can't just arrange an all-out rumble in a vacant parking lot between William Green owners and Lee Suggs owners. I'd much rather watch that than a Cleveland Browns game.Yao

Maybe Ponyboy will show up with his boyfriend, the Karate Kid.

 

[moderated]

Too bad we can't just arrange an all-out rumble in a vacant parking lot between William Green owners and Lee Suggs owners. I'd much rather watch that than a Cleveland Browns game.Yao

Maybe Ponyboy will show up with his boyfriend, the Karate Kid.

:rotflmao: i'm out of this discussion from here on out as I don't want to get banned.Pony Boy - The insults weren't meant to be personnal, but you set yourself up by making no sense what-so-ever. If your feelings were hurt I apoligize.Time for me to move onto the always exciting Henry/McGahee thread.Moderated

 

[P Boy]

:rotflmao: i'm out of this discussion from here on out as I don't want to get banned.Pony Boy - The insults weren't meant to be personnal, but you set yourself up by making no sense what-so-ever. If your feelings were hurt I apoligize.Time for me to move onto the always exciting Henry/McGahee thread.Moderated

So in other words, I take it that you can't even find one scouting report that states that Suggs has bad hands, and you are using your condescending & holier-than-thou attitude to skate away before people realize that you are just blowing smoke & have no clue as to what you are talking about?LOL.

 

[moderated]

:rotflmao: i'm out of this discussion from here on out as I don't want to get banned.Pony Boy - The insults weren't meant to be personnal, but you set yourself up by making no sense what-so-ever. If your feelings were hurt I apoligize.Time for me to move onto the always exciting Henry/McGahee thread.Moderated

So in other words, I take it that you can't even find one scouting report that states that Suggs has bad hands, and you are using your condescending & holier-than-thou attitude to skate away before people realize that you are just blowing smoke & have no clue as to what you are talking about?LOL.

One last time. Please read carefully. I will bold the parts that you seem to not understand even though i've stated them 100 times. I feel like i'm talking to a child, but anyway i'm here to help woman, children, even monkeys if need be.I said, and those much more knowledgeable about Lee Suggs than you or I have also stated...LEE SUGGS RECIEVING ABILITY AND ROUTE RUNNING IS VIEWED AS A WEAKNESS, NOT A STRENGTH at this point in time.I didn't say he had BAD hands, as he has caught so few balls that cannot be said with any certainty.But to deny that it is a weakness from what we know now is crazy and makes no sense.Once again you have wasted my time. Once again you have failed to read. Once again you have acted Ponyboyish.No matter what jibberish you respond with I refuse to reply again. I have made it clear as day what I meant.

 

[P Boy]

One last time.  Please read carefully.  I will bold the parts that you seem to not understand even though i've stated them 100 times.  I feel like i'm talking to a child, but anyway i'm here to help woman, children, even monkeys if need be.

I didn't say he had BAD hands, as he has caught so few balls that cannot be said with any certainty.

So you didn't say this on page 4 of this discussion:

by moderated, two pages ago:

Suggs is a breakaway talent with good hands.

Where do you get that?His knock coming out of college was his lack of hands.

And you didn't post this on page 5 of this discussion:

by moderated one page ago:

my only point was that at the present time his hands are viewed as a weakness.

Huh. I could have sworn that I saw it.

 

[JJ Evans]

Yes but as Marc points out in his formula, they are likely to have the 2nd and KEY ingredient, OPPORTUNITY. Where as Green and Suggs are anyones guess. Plus Det a has made huge strides on O and Dal can't even be compared to Clev in rushing the ball. Parcells/Mooch vs. Davis is another way of looking at it. I think its rather obvious which coaches have had better success at running the ball and finding productive RBs.

so let's hypothetically say Suggs is named the starter tomorrow. Where would you draft him relative to Kevin Jones and Julius Jones?

:11:

 

[Marc Levin]

Yes but as Marc points out in his formula, they are likely to have the 2nd and KEY ingredient, OPPORTUNITY.  Where as Green and Suggs are anyones guess.  Plus Det a has made huge strides on O and Dal can't even be compared to Clev in rushing the ball.  Parcells/Mooch vs. Davis is another way of looking at it.  I think its rather obvious which coaches have had better success at running the ball and finding productive RBs.

so let's hypothetically say Suggs is named the starter tomorrow. Where would you draft him relative to Kevin Jones and Julius Jones?

:11:

 

[George Jefferson]

William Green: 152Lee Suggs: 143The people have spoken.

 

[amnesiac]

William Green: 152Lee Suggs: 143The people have spoken.

And 51.5% like Green better than Suggs. The only thing to do now is wait for the season. That and bicker a lot in the meantime.

 

[P Boy]

The only thing to do now is wait for the season. That and bicker a lot in the meantime.

GB fibbers! Makes the offseason well worthwhile.

 

[JJ Evans]

William Green: 152Lee Suggs: 143The people have spoken.

Suggs owner =

 

[Burning Sensation]

Too bad we can't just arrange an all-out rumble in a vacant parking lot between William Green owners and Lee Suggs owners. I'd much rather watch that than a Cleveland Browns game.Yao

Are George Jefferson and JJ Evans allowed to bring their aliases?

 

[Burning Sensation]

William Green: 152Lee Suggs: 143The people have spoken.

Suggs owner =

What did you Green owners win, false hope? Trust me, you dont need anymore.

 

[Burning Sensation]

JJ Evans, this look familiar?"just made my final offer for suggs: LJ, MASON AND 2.3"

 

[JJ Evans]

JJ Evans, this look familiar?"just made my final offer for suggs: LJ, MASON AND 2.3"

Nice one. That was 3 months ago. You save all my love letters cupcake?

 

[Burning Sensation]

JJ Evans, this look familiar?"just made my final offer for suggs: LJ, MASON AND 2.3"

Nice one. That was 3 months ago. You save all my love letters cupcake?

well, just the ones that invole trade offers,..............oh yeh, and the real kinky ones. P.S. Dont you think that is alot to give up for a guy who sucks, or what did you call him, a turd?

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

I'm banking on the fact that the scouts and NFL coaches (Parcells inparticular) for the most part think so. Jones was a early 2nd rd pick, Suggs 4th. That tells me right there who has greater perceived tallent by guys who make a living on finding it. I realize its very subjective and that these people are at times wrong, but none the less that is where I get my impression from.

You cannot compare two players picked in different years with different injury issues as if their situations were the same. At the time of the draft, Suggs was thought to be lost for a full year--he obviously would have been picked higher than 4.18 had he been healthy.There is simply no data on whether "most scouts" or Bill Parcells for that matter would have taken a healthy Julius Jones over a healthy Lee Suggs, your opinion notwithstanding.

 

[jurb26]

I'm banking on the fact that the scouts and NFL coaches (Parcells inparticular) for the most part think so. Jones was a early 2nd rd pick, Suggs 4th. That tells me right there who has greater perceived tallent by guys who make a living on finding it. I realize its very subjective and that these people are at times wrong, but none the less that is where I get my impression from.

You cannot compare two players picked in different years with different injury issues as if their situations were the same. At the time of the draft, Suggs was thought to be lost for a full year--he obviously would have been picked higher than 4.18 had he been healthy.There is simply no data on whether "most scouts" or Bill Parcells for that matter would have taken a healthy Julius Jones over a healthy Lee Suggs, your opinion notwithstanding.

Ummm thats exactly why I used such words as "perceived" and "subjective." If you feel Suggs is more tallented then thats fine by me. I feel that both the Jones' are. We all have our opinions.

 

[JJ Evans]

I'm banking on the fact that the scouts and NFL coaches (Parcells inparticular) for the most part think so.  Jones was a early 2nd rd pick, Suggs 4th.  That tells me right there who has greater perceived tallent by guys who make a living on finding it.  I realize its very subjective and that these people are at times wrong, but none the less that is where I get my impression from.

You cannot compare two players picked in different years with different injury issues as if their situations were the same. At the time of the draft, Suggs was thought to be lost for a full year--he obviously would have been picked higher than 4.18 had he been healthy.There is simply no data on whether "most scouts" or Bill Parcells for that matter would have taken a healthy Julius Jones over a healthy Lee Suggs, your opinion notwithstanding.

Ummm thats exactly why I used such words as "perceived" and "subjective." If you feel Suggs is more tallented then thats fine by me. I feel that both the Jones' are. We all have our opinions.

Don't sweat it, I doubt there are any others out there that think Lee "Turd" Suggs is as talented as Kevin "Got Moves?" Jones. It's not even close.

 

[Big Score]

JJ's secret double reverse whammy plot.

Start a thread on Suggs - vs - Green.

Pump the snot outta Green.

Tell League mates about this wonderful new FF site that he's discovered and direct them to the Suggs - vs - Green thread.

Come draft day JJ scoops up Suggs, THE PLAYER HE SECRETLY WANTED ALL ALONG, for next to nothing in his League.

 

[JJ Evans]

William Green [ 169 ] [52.32%] Lee Suggs [ 153 ] [47.37%] Total Votes: 322 DYNOMITE! :gang: