WIS MMXI: Back to the Future Edition-Rules & Signup Thread (1 Viewer)

[Spartans Rule]

I'd like a magazine just to get the general lay of the MLB land (I can't name likely MLB starters at every position for every team like I can for NFL skill positions ). I figure I can then research any details online. But then, this is 2010 ... maybe all the research, both general and particular, can and should be done online. Dunno.

It should mostly be done online, but if you want a magazine, there's one called The Fantasy Baseball Guide that I still pick up every year and is pretty helpful.

 

[jfranco77]

here's what i was thinking...1. Draft your 25 man roster now.2. 50 games into MLB season, have some sort of add/drop process where you can exchange up to, say, 5 players.*3. Do the same thing at 100 games.4. The WIS season would mirror your MLB season. Meaning, you start WIS with your original 25 players.5. 50 games into the WIS season, you execute your add/drops.6. Ditto at 100 WIS games.I think this provides for a manageable draft, plus makes allowances for low PA/IP due to injury, etc.* no strong feelings on best add/drop process

I really don't like #4-6. but I like 1-3. We have to have the same roster the whole time in WIS. It's just nuts to try to do anything else.

 

[the moops]

We getting this rolling at some point?

 

[Eephus]

We getting this rolling at some point?

We're waiting for RnR or one of the big draft supporters to put together a proposal that we can vote on.

 

[RnR]

We getting this rolling at some point?

We're waiting for RnR or one of the big draft supporters to put together a proposal that we can vote on.

I don't want to speak for everyone else, but my proposal was pretty straight forward:40-round pre-season draftMinor leagues activatedManage teams in sim like a 40-man roster (25 active, 15 minors)

 

[Sammy3469]

We getting this rolling at some point?

We're waiting for RnR or one of the big draft supporters to put together a proposal that we can vote on.

I don't want to speak for everyone else, but my proposal was pretty straight forward:40-round pre-season draftMinor leagues activatedManage teams in sim like a 40-man roster (25 active, 15 minors)

I really think 40 is overkill.

 

[RnR]

We getting this rolling at some point?

We're waiting for RnR or one of the big draft supporters to put together a proposal that we can vote on.

I don't want to speak for everyone else, but my proposal was pretty straight forward:40-round pre-season draftMinor leagues activatedManage teams in sim like a 40-man roster (25 active, 15 minors)

I really think 40 is overkill.

Well, that number is certainly up for debate. I figured that the lack of a supplemental draft would create the need for more options based on injuries and demotions, but that's just a round number I put out there.

 

[Hoos First]

Just do 25 now, 5 at AS break and 5 at the end. 25 total players when league starts.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

This is never going to happen, is it? Well, it was a run.

 

[RnR]

Just do 25 now, 5 at AS break and 5 at the end. 25 total players when league starts.

All these supplemental drafts just don't make any sense to me. We have 24 teams, there will probably be 5 or 10 guys that become significantly valuable after going undrafted in the original 25, and some teams will essentially hit the lottery by being in the front half of those drafts. The bottom half of that draft will be left picking role players. Seems unfair at best, considering the supposed advantage to this kind of approach is "leveling the playing field."ETA: Not to mention the headache it is going to be to gather the same 24 guys together three separate times (twice in the summer months) to get these supplemental drafts done.

 

[Eephus]

Here's a slight modification of Sparty's proposal from page 2:

25 round pre-season draft. 24 teams in snake format.

One supplemental draft beginning at the AS break.

To make a supplemental draft pick, you must drop a previously selected player. All dropped players will be added to the supplemental draft pool before any supplemental picks are made.

In order to discourage dumping, The supplemental draft order will be determined using a randomization of the dropped player's pre-season draft position by five round phases. For example, all owners dropping players originally picked in rounds 1-5 will roll dice to determine order of phase one of the supplemental draft. After all phase one picks are made, all owners who dropped round 6-10 picks will be randomized for phase two. This will continue through all five supplemental phases.

Any drafted players who do not meet WIS minimum requirements for IP/162 or PA/162 will be replaced by $200K players during the WIS season.

 

[RnR]

So what do you do when the person with the first pick of this supplemental draft gets 2007 Ryan Braun and the person with the 24th pick makes the turn with a middle infielder and a platoon player?

 

[the moops]

I think I agree with RnR here. Isn't the point of this to see how good we are at predicting how players will do a few months in advance. If we get to drop our crappy picks and draft some guy that nobody had on their radar, then in a way, why dont we just draft the entire team at the All-Star break.

 

[Eephus]

So what do you do when the person with the first pick of this supplemental draft gets 2007 Ryan Braun and the person with the 24th pick makes the turn with a middle infielder and a platoon player?

Everybody gets 25 shots at 07 Braun during the preseason draft. And nobody is forced to drop and pick in the supplemental.The purposes of the supplemental are to protect teams in the event of someone missing most of the season due to injury or non-production, keep some interest up during the season, and eliminate the need for a long drawn out pre-season draft for guys who probably won't be relevant in WIS.

 

[Eephus]

I think I agree with RnR here. Isn't the point of this to see how good we are at predicting how players will do a few months in advance. If we get to drop our crappy picks and draft some guy that nobody had on their radar, then in a way, why dont we just draft the entire team at the All-Star break.

Fair enough. The schism here still seems to be between the people who want one big preseason draft with no in season supplemental picks, and the people who want a shorter draft up front with the ability to drop/add players during the year,I don't think we'll reach consensus. The best approach is to poll the 24 owners and resolve the central big/small draft question. We can finesse the details later,Big draftRnRthemoopsSmall drafteephus

 

[RnR]

Deleted my last comment for the sake of moving forward with a vote. No sense in arguing it any further until the vote is tallied.

 

[Eephus]

Deleted my last comment for the sake of moving forward with a vote. No sense in arguing it any further until the vote is tallied.

Too bad. I thought up a brilliant counterargument while I was out walking the dog. Bosley, who formerly wanted big rosters, was totally won over to small rosters and a supplemental draft.

 

[Eephus]

Big Rosters:

Pre-season draft of 35-40 players per team (840-960 total)

No in-season pickups via waivers or supplemental drafts

WIS 25 man active rosters with 10-15 AAA slots

Active /minor league swap rules to be determined

Small Rosters:

Pre-season draft of 25 players per team (600 total)

Mid-season supplemental draft. Owners must drop players from original roster to make supplemental picks

WIS 25 man rosters with no minor leaguers

Supplemental draft rules to be determined

 

[Sammy3469]

Big Rosters: Pre-season draft of 35-40 players per team (840-960 total)No in-season pickups via waivers or supplemental draftsWIS 25 man active rosters with 10-15 AAA slotsActive /minor league swap rules to be determinedSmall Rostersre-season draft of 25 players per team (600 total)Mid-season supplemental draft. Owners must drop players from original roster to make supplemental picksWIS 25 man rosters with no minor leaguersSupplemental draft rules to be determined

I think the issue really boils down to do you want to ensure teams have enough ABs/IPs or do you want the most realistic approach. I'm OK with either, but 40 just seems like total overkill to me though and I think there's a good to excellent chance people end up short ABs/IPs through no fault of their own.For instance there were only 60 usable 2B seasons last year and something like 45 SS seasons. Even if you wanted to take a 5th MI backup, you probably couldn't (much less expect them to play any). There's a pretty good chance that if you have your starting SS go down, either through injury or through sucking, that even with 40 players, you won't have enough SS ABs. With 24 teams we're already taking backups who aren't assured of getting enough ABs. For instance, if you had Pedroia or Rollins last year there's very little chance you actually The one sure fire to solution to that problem is drafting team infielders and C. With partial seasons we'd be able to parse out the part of the season for each club and WIS also tells you what their primary position is. It's not ideal, but after looking at some of the numbers, I don't think any part of this is going to end up being ideal.

 

[rodg12]

I vote 25 man roster with mid-season supplemental draft.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Even though the current short draft proposal was basically my idea, I'm kinda leaning long draft here.

There's no perfect solution either way, but I like the simplicity and fairness of one draft and that's it over the complexity of trying to fix all the problems that come with supplemental drafts.

 

[Eephus]

Big Rosters: Pre-season draft of 35-40 players per team (840-960 total)No in-season pickups via waivers or supplemental draftsWIS 25 man active rosters with 10-15 AAA slotsActive /minor league swap rules to be determinedSmall Rostersre-season draft of 25 players per team (600 total)Mid-season supplemental draft. Owners must drop players from original roster to make supplemental picksWIS 25 man rosters with no minor leaguersSupplemental draft rules to be determined

I think the issue really boils down to do you want to ensure teams have enough ABs/IPs or do you want the most realistic approach. I'm OK with either, but 40 just seems like total overkill to me though and I think there's a good to excellent chance people end up short ABs/IPs through no fault of their own.For instance there were only 60 usable 2B seasons last year and something like 45 SS seasons. Even if you wanted to take a 5th MI backup, you probably couldn't (much less expect them to play any). There's a pretty good chance that if you have your starting SS go down, either through injury or through sucking, that even with 40 players, you won't have enough SS ABs. With 24 teams we're already taking backups who aren't assured of getting enough ABs. For instance, if you had Pedroia or Rollins last year there's very little chance you actually The one sure fire to solution to that problem is drafting team infielders and C. With partial seasons we'd be able to parse out the part of the season for each club and WIS also tells you what their primary position is. It's not ideal, but after looking at some of the numbers, I don't think any part of this is going to end up being ideal.

I think that's more an issue of 24 teams competing than with either draft format. The rookie league showed how damaging fatigue can be. The problem may be worse with pitching staffs because nobody will have a 300IP dead baller to eat innings and there aren't as many 90IP relievers as there used to be.It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if we had some partnerships formed or owners drop out to get us to 20 teams.

 

[boubucarow]

I am in either way but I am leaning towards the long draft and be done with it til October. We will be able to CYA enough with an extra 15 picks as much as we probably could at the All Star Break with the exception of a surprise everyday player or two who then would be stolen in a supplemental draft.

If Pujols gets hurt, the Cardinals don't get a chance to pick up proven production out of nowhere. I lean toward not allowing us to do that. It would also be interesting to see who everyone thinks will force their way onto the field this year in the 35th round.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Deleted my last comment for the sake of moving forward with a vote. No sense in arguing it any further until the vote is tallied.

Too bad. I thought up a brilliant counterargument while I was out walking the dog. Bosley, who formerly wanted big rosters, was totally won over to small rosters and a supplemental draft.

Is his name Bosley because you found him in a Hefty Bag?

 

[oso diablo]

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if we had some partnerships formed or owners drop out to get us to 20 teams.

i am willing to partner. will be on vacation for a week in March anyway for spring break (3/12-19).

 

[Bogart]

I vote big rosters. Let's have one draft and see how it plays out. If we go 40 players deep and somehow your team loses 16 or more players to injury, we will figure something out.

 

[the moops]

I vote big rosters. Let's have one draft and see how it plays out. If we go 40 players deep and somehow your team loses 16 or more players to injury, we will figure something out.

We should start soon if we do this. It could take forever to get through 700+ picks.

 

[Eephus]

I vote big rosters. Let's have one draft and see how it plays out. If we go 40 players deep and somehow your team loses 16 or more players to injury, we will figure something out.

We should start soon if we do this. It could take forever to get through 700+ picks.

Relax nerds. Voting has been open for less than a day. Opening day really isn't a hard stop either.

 

[oso diablo]

slight preference for a once & done format, but not sure we need all 40 picks to get there. prefer it to be closer to 30 than 40.

 

[Doug B]

... so, if we go 40 deep, what becomes of the extra 16 guys? You have to assume some injuries, as well as some guys that never get called up.

How do we even use the actual AAA feature at WIS.com? And how would we use it to account for the players on our roster above the 24-man active-roster limit?

 

[Eephus]

slight preference for a once & done format, but not sure we need all 40 picks to get there. prefer it to be closer to 30 than 40.

The shorter the rosters, the higher the risk of fatigue issues

 

[scoobus]

Given the two options I'd prefer the big draft for sure.

We could do something like draft 35 guys, then after the season if its obvious you won't have enough at-bats, you can pick up people. But there would be restrictions on the quality of people available, like maybe any hitter eligible to be picked up would have to be batting below .260 and and pitcher with an ERA above 5.00. Something like that.

 

[Eephus]

Big draft supporters should check in the Serious Business dispersal draft thread. Keep in mind that SB is a 13 team league with 36 man rosters

 

[RnR]

Big draft supporters should check in the Serious Business dispersal draft thread. Keep in mind that SB is a 13 team league with 36 man rosters

I know you're losing in a landslide here, but this is in poor taste. Apples to oranges. Is the "big draft" a perfect solution to getting a perfectly balanced WIS league in October? Maybe not, but its the only one that achieves the intended goal of this exercise. Anything else is either completely flawed by an advantage given to early drafters in supplemental drafts, or is simply an exercise in replaying the baseball season that just happened as "fairly" as possible. Both are cans of worms I think are best left unopened. If you want me to break out my deleted post and blast everything I can find wrong with "supplemental" drafts, I can do that. Be warned the list will be very long, and provide us with more questions than answers.

 

[Eephus]

Big draft supporters should check in the Serious Business dispersal draft thread. Keep in mind that SB is a 13 team league with 36 man rosters

I know you're losing in a landslide here, but this is in poor taste. Apples to oranges. Is the "big draft" a perfect solution to getting a perfectly balanced WIS league in October? Maybe not, but its the only one that achieves the intended goal of this exercise. Anything else is either completely flawed by an advantage given to early drafters in supplemental drafts, or is simply an exercise in replaying the baseball season that just happened as "fairly" as possible. Both are cans of worms I think are best left unopened. If you want me to break out my deleted post and blast everything I can find wrong with "supplemental" drafts, I can do that. Be warned the list will be very long, and provide us with more questions than answers.

All's fair is WIS leeg format discussions

 

[the moops]

Big draft supporters should check in the Serious Business dispersal draft thread. Keep in mind that SB is a 13 team league with 36 man rosters

Chipper Jones, Jed Lowrie, Jim Thome, and Juan Rivera just got drafted.

 

[Eephus]

Richard Hidalgo is only 35 and is in the best shape of his life

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Richard Hidalgo is only 35 and is in the best shape of his life

Rickey says you should call Rickey up and give him a job.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Gonna have to jump off this bus. Sorry, just too much real life going on in the next month or two.

I can judge, rank something or contribute witty conversation if needed. Call me.

 

[Greco]

Am I in last yet?

 

[cheese]

I'm interested if you end up needing someone or if someone wants a partner.

 

[Frostillicus]

Too hard. I'm out.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Given the two options I'd prefer the big draft for sure.We could do something like draft 35 guys, then after the season if its obvious you won't have enough at-bats, you can pick up people. But there would be restrictions on the quality of people available, like maybe any hitter eligible to be picked up would have to be batting below .260 and and pitcher with an ERA above 5.00. Something like that.

I like this idea. We could use WIS salaries in some fashion for restrictions.Two ways it could work:A. We have a soft team salary cap. Kinda like the NBA. If you manage to go over the salary cap just by shrewd drafting, you can keep what you have. If not, you can pick up players to get to the cap.B. We have a limit on the $/PA or $/IP of players that you can pick up after the season.

 

[Eephus]

Polls are open til Friday

1. Eephus - Small draft, open to partnership

2. moops - Big draft

3. boubucarow

4. jfranco

5. hoos first - small draft I think

6. bogart - Big draft

7. dr detroit/acer (DD Out)

8. spartans small draft, no i mean big draft

9. TU

10. scoobus - big draft

11. larry

12. oso - open to partnership, big draft (sort of)

13. doug

14. rnr - Big draft

15. TRE

16. sammy

17. socalbronco

18. greco

19. northern voice

20. mr phoenix OUT

21. arsenal

22. chem x

23. rodg - Small draft

24. super nintendo

25. frosty - OUT

Wait list: belljr, cheese

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Big draft if we hurry the F up.

 

[RnR]

Big draft if we hurry the F up.

We could already be drafting. Gloriously.

 

[Spartans Rule]

I'm starting to lean towards a "let's knock 25 rounds out and then decide the rest of the rules" strategy.

 

[Hoos First]

I'm starting to lean towards a "let's knock 25 rounds out and then decide the rest of the rules" strategy.

Lets start the dice roll

 

[RnR]

I'm starting to lean towards a "let's knock 25 rounds out and then decide the rest of the rules" strategy.

Not so easy. I'm really not interested in dispersal drafts. May just sit this one out if that's the route we go.FWIW, Eephus has officially taken the most awesome idea and made me hate it. Congrats on that, ya old geezer.

 

[Northern Voice]

put me down for big draft, don't feel strongly in either direction though.