With Gruden fresh in our minds, is this email offensive? (1 Viewer)

[ignatiusjreilly]

I think it was a casual joke about how the name of the holiday is changing, and I don't think it's particularly offensive, but I do see the point that if an employee (a salesperson, no less, whose job is to make people like and trust him) is sending an email out to a large group of people, he should probably be conscious of how he might come across. I certainly wouldn't support "reporting" him to HR, but it doesn't sound like that's what you did. I actually think it's more of a private conversation than an email, because you don't want the guy to feel like he's being accused of anything, just trying to make him aware of how he might be coming across. Also, the more I think about it, it's less about being offensive as it is venturing into vaguely political territory with a large group of professional contacts. I would say the same thing if he made a joke about Trump or Biden or whoever.

Years ago, when I was applying to business school, I had someone I trust read my application essays. At one point I used the phrase "niggling details". Her advice was to use a different word. She reminded me of the time a city official in Washington, DC lost his job for using the word "#####rdly" in a meeting. To be clear, we both thought that story was ridiculous, and knew that neither "#####rdly" nor "niggling" had any etymological connection to the n-word. Her point was, why even risk evoking a negative reaction in a scenario where I was trying to sell myself to strangers? Was my goal to make a meaningless stand on principle or to get accepted into the school?

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Heads up:

Friday October 29 National Cat Day 2021 in United States.

National Cat Day or ##### Day or whatever

 

[flapgreen]

Heads up:

Friday October 29 National Cat Day 2021 in United States.

National Cat whatever day... 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Years ago, when I was applying to business school, I had someone I trust read my application essays. At one point I used the phrase "niggling details". Her advice was to use a different word. She reminded me of the time a city official in Washington, DC lost his job for using the word "#####rdly" in a meeting. To be clear, we both thought that story was ridiculous, and knew that neither "#####rdly" nor "niggling" had any etymological connection to the n-word. Her point was, why even risk evoking a negative reaction in a scenario where I was trying to sell myself to strangers? Was my goal to make a meaningless stand on principle or to get accepted into the school?

Ironic that the swear censor went into effect on this one. Looks like it flagged the first five letters as the slang spelling of the n-word

 

[wikkidpissah]

How 

Immunity, resiliency, balance

 

[nirad3]

Gonna be honest, I had no idea about Indigenous Peoples' Day until this thread.

I didn't know about it until I got an out-of-office response from a client.

 

[wlwiles]

Gonna be honest, I had no idea about Indigenous Peoples' Day until this thread.

Today I learned that Columbus Day is also referred to as Indigenous Peoples' Day.  And I also didn't realize that that day was yesterday until I saw this thread.  

They say you learn something new every day.  I've learned my new thing for the day, so I'm going home.  Cheers!

 

[Maik Jeaunz]

Heads up:

Friday October 29 National Cat Day 2021 in United States.

we dog people shall not stand for this!

 

[Rustoleum]

we dog people shall not stand for this!

Perfectly fine to sit, lay down, or roll over though,

 

[nirad3]

Perfectly fine to sit, lay down, or roll over though,

Good boy!

 

[Andrew74]

Perhaps then there is a need for retraining on the use of the Oxford comma?

As the email was written, with only one comma, there are two distinct days in the list; Columbus and Indigenous whatever. 
Had Strunk and White been followed, there would have been three distinct items in the list; Columbus, Indigenous, and whatever.

However, without the comma, I believe the first reading is correct and could easily be taken as a devaluation of the movement and the people that put a new holiday on the calendar.

Yep, that's part of the job. First is that if someone is offended I do not want to be on the email chain and have said nothing. Two, if one of my team members comes to me with this I want to be on top of it. No one's getting fired, especially not a union salesperson. 

I guess I don’t know what your job is but I wouldn’t have thought twice about this, even as a supervisor.  Maybe I’m old and behind the times.  But having dealt with HR  on these types of issues, even if he doesn’t get fired, his life sucks now.  All over something that may or may not have offended someone.  Just drop a note to the guy.  Don’t tattle to HR.  

 

[Ilov80s]

Was cc'd into a reply on the below. Doesn't sit well, but not sure if I'm hyper aware at the moment.

Super disrespectful but whatever. I would just log in my head that the person that sent the email is maybe an #####. 

 

[djmich]

I’m shocked he spelled indegenous correctly.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Email was probably not in great taste, but offensive?  Nah.  I cannot imagine reporting something that minor to HR, but everyone has their own level of what offends them in 2021. 

 

[tri-man 47]

I think it was a casual joke about how the name of the holiday is changing, and I don't think it's particularly offensive, but I do see the point that if an employee (a salesperson, no less, whose job is to make people like and trust him) is sending an email out to a large group of people, he should probably be conscious of how he might come across. I certainly wouldn't support "reporting" him to HR, but it doesn't sound like that's what you did. I actually think it's more of a private conversation than an email, because you don't want the guy to feel like he's being accused of anything, just trying to make him aware of how he might be coming across. Also, the more I think about it, it's less about being offensive as it is venturing into vaguely political territory with a large group of professional contacts. I would say the same thing if he made a joke about Trump or Biden or whoever.

Years ago, when I was applying to business school, I had someone I trust read my application essays. At one point I used the phrase "niggling details". Her advice was to use a different word. She reminded me of the time a city official in Washington, DC lost his job for using the word "#####rdly" in a meeting. To be clear, we both thought that story was ridiculous, and knew that neither "#####rdly" nor "niggling" had any etymological connection to the n-word. Her point was, why even risk evoking a negative reaction in a scenario where I was trying to sell myself to strangers? Was my goal to make a meaningless stand on principle or to get accepted into the school?

I don't recall where I heard or read about the young lady who, when asked on an interview about something unusual about herself, commented on some aspect of her uvula.  

(The hangy things at the back of the throat.)

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I don't recall where I heard or read about the young lady who, when asked on an interview about something unusual about herself, commented on some aspect of her uvula.  

(The hangy things at the back of the throat.)

Ha, you just reminded me of my all-time favorite line from "Arrested Development"

 

[DallasDMac]

Yep, that's part of the job. 

Sounds like you work at a really great company.

 

[Bertha]

Depends. Are you an Indian (feather not dot)? 

 

[FairWarning]

The manager was probably frustrated as the staff had to work while some of the clients were off for the holiday.  It does throw the schedule off some.  Perhaps not the best way to handle it, but I get it.  

 

[GroveDiesel]

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems weird that instead of addressing it personally, you reported it to HR, not because you were offended, but because you thought other people might be offended. 

I guess that’s the world we live in now though. 20+ people on and email and if you’d don’t report something that someone COULD take offense at, if someone DOES take offense and you didn’t say anything, suddenly you’re guilty by association. 

 

[Boston]

As each day passes it becomes more and more apparent that the movie PCU is the most important movie/piece of art of the past 100 years...

 

[Kal El]

Ignorant, sure. Offensive, maybe? I have Cherokee ancestry(mixed in with a whole lot of generic white ancestry), so I’m not the definitive voice of the people, as it were, but honestly, I’d rather call it by it’s newer name, considering how awful of a person Columbus really was.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I would not send an email like that.

That said, if you reported this email to HR, you are the bad guy in this narrative.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems weird that instead of addressing it personally, you reported it to HR, not because you were offended, but because you thought other people might be offended. 

I guess that’s the world we live in now though. 20+ people on and email and if you’d don’t report something that someone COULD take offense at, if someone DOES take offense and you didn’t say anything, suddenly you’re guilty by association. 

The signs were all there that Sarah was a witch, and I notice that you never said anything.  Why do you support witchcraft?

 

[glvsav37]

As each day passes it becomes more and more apparent that the movie PCU is the most important movie/piece of art of the past 100 years...

And its looking like Idiocracy is becoming a documentary 

 

[BassNBrew]

Good boy!

op is going to report you for using racist language 

 

[Navin Johnson]

As each day passes it becomes more and more apparent that the movie PCU is the most important movie/piece of art of the past 100 years...

This penis party's got to go!  Hey, hey!  Ho, ho!

 

[Boston]

This penis party's got to go!  Hey, hey!  Ho, ho!

“Pigman is trying to prove the Caine-Hackman theory. No matter what time it is, 24 hours a day, you can find a Michael Caine or Gene Hackman movie playing on TV.”

 

[Gilroy34]

 

[nirad3]

As each day passes it becomes more and more apparent that the movie PCU is the most important movie/piece of art of the past 100 years...

WE'RE NOT GONNA PROTEST!!!

 

[Sweet J]

Figured part of my job is making sure HR knew of possible issues so forwarded it over. Received a call back and that was the first question, "Do you know it's Indigenous People's Day?" 

My issue with that interpretation is that he could have simply said that the account was closed for the holiday, not gone into the "Indigeneous whatever" well. 

Salesperson. He wrote the first email to a group of 8 people. They then forwarded to a group of 20 that I was on. You'd think people would learn...

Sure, it's inappropriate because of the "indigenous/whatever" part. 

Aside from that, it's just kind of got a dickish tone. 

 

[DallasDMac]

Aside from that, it's just kind of got a dickish tone. 

If that becomes grounds for firing, most of America is going to be unemployed.

 

[flapgreen]

You sound like a joy to work with 

 

[KarmaPolice]

I would not send an email like that.

That said, if you reported this email to HR, you are the bad guy in this narrative.

That was my initial thought, but I could see the POV of getting in trouble for not saying something too.  

 

[Tom Servo]

That was my initial thought, but I could see the POV of getting in trouble for not saying something too.  

Nobody likes a narc, Nico.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

That was my initial thought, but I could see the POV of getting in trouble for not saying something too.  

Sure, I can see that.  But do I really want to work for an employer where I'm afraid of being accused of witchcraft because I didn't turn in enough witches?

 

[bagger]

I am more offended that he writes his emails like he is sending a telegram. Surprised he had periods and didn’t write “stop” at the end of each sentence.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Sure, I can see that.  But do I really want to work for an employer where I'm afraid of being accused of witchcraft because I didn't turn in enough witches?

That is a very fair question that I would probably ask myself as well.  

 

[Sweet J]

I am more offended that he writes his emails like he is sending a telegram. Surprised he had periods and didn’t write “stop” at the end of each sentence.

This. A thousand times this.