I'm far from being the Christian I'd like to be, but if I were forced to choose between letting people prevent unwanted pregnancies and the death of an unborn child, I'll pick the contraceptives every time. I could also make a comment about setting their own house in order first, but this is no time to start a flame war, and I have relatives who are Catholic. That and it would be hypocritical of me to make such a comment anyway.
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Woman films her own abortion (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter saintsfan
- Start date
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Again if we are making assumptions, I'm making the assumption they had a conversation about having a child, she was good with it and at a later date reneged. My original comment was women can decide to have an abortion and the other half of the equation has no legal say.
Josie Maran
Footballguy
I'm filming my abortion right now.
timschochet
Footballguy
My original comment was women can decide to have an abortion and the other half of the equation has no legal say.
And this is a very good thing.
And this is a very good thing.
tommyboy
Footballguy
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
tommyboy
Footballguy
Parrothead
Footballguy
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
General Malaise
Footballguy
tommyboy
Footballguy
Because they dont want to be compelled to pay for contraception or abortifactants, not because they want limit access to them.
KCitons
Footballguy
I can relate to this. Growing up in a Catholic household, my Dad had zero problem with us watching violence on TV. But, whenever something sexual came on TV, he changed the channel or made us leave the room. Shows like 3's company were completely off limits.
When I was 18, I asked him to record the movie American Graffiti. When I watched the tape a few day later, he had paused the recording to skip over the make out scene that takes place in the back seat of a car. Ironically, I was in the back seat of a car making out with my girlfriend.
Catholics tend to hide from the truth. Even when it's right in front of them.
tommyboy
Footballguy
Ive been catholic for 22 yrs, only time it was brought up was during marriage prep when they brought in a couple to talk about natural planning. 99% of catholics use birth control if some sort
KCitons
Footballguy
General Malaise
Footballguy
I think what he's saying is they don't use guilt tactics in their opposition to contraception. Catholics are openly against it.
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Although they use them, that isn't the same as the Catholic Church endorsing the use of them. In fact didn't the Catholic Church have a hand in trying to repeal the mandate by Obamcare in regards to birth control
General Malaise
Footballguy
How do you know 'she's' a 'he'?how do you know he's good?Good lord...
tommyboy
Footballguy
General Malaise
Footballguy
You know what they call the group of people who practice the "Rhythm Method" for birth control?
parents.
Good lady!How do you know 'she's' a 'he'?how do you know he's good?Good lord...
KCitons
Footballguy
Did you miss the part where I said I was raised Catholic?How do you know 'she's' a 'he'?how do you know he's good?Good lord...
saintsfan
Footballguy
Something like 80% of Catholics disagree with the Church's teachings on contraception. Sorry to destroy your worldview, but we are not some monolithic group that follows the Church like sheep.
Care to cite a reference for the 80% claim? And as for the whole not following the teachings of the church whenever you feel like it thing, there's a word for that. ---> Lapsed.
Last edited by a moderator:
General Malaise
Footballguy
Well then, something like 20% of Catholics agree with the Church's teachings on contraception and last I looked, 20% of 1.1 Billion is a whole hell of a lot. Why follow a flock if you don't agree with the Shepherd's worldview?
So 78% of 12,000 people Univision surveyed in 12 Latin American countries think that contraception is cool. While I'm sure that in today's world the number is probably at least 50%, I'd be willing to bet that among its nearly 1 billion followers worldwide that 78% would not hold.
In any event, the term still stands. A person doesn't join a faith and get to tweak the rules as you go in order to suit their whims.
Josie Maran
Footballguy
McGarnicle
Footballguy
Only thing I'm curious about is how an "abortion counselor" is dumb enough to get pregnant unintentionally.
tommyboy
Footballguy
well if you want to get into theology, the catholic church also teaches that you must follow your heart as God compels you, above the teachings of the church.
Therefore, if you're a Catholic in the 21st century and you think getting a vasectomy would probably be a smart thing to do after the 4 kids you popped out with momma, then God compels you to do so, regardless of the "official" dogma from Rome
saintsfan
Footballguy
Because maybe there are lots of other things that we do agree with the Church on. Maybe other faiths also have things we don't agree with.
Fennis
Footballguy
saintsfan
Footballguy
This one indicates that the 78% is overall worldwide
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/12/catholic-church-divisions-survey_n_4770546.html
The point is, we are capable of thinking for ourselves. I agree with the Church on many things and some things I don't agree with.
What do you want me to be?? One of these faiths that believe that everything in the Bible is 100% historically true so I can believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old??
matuski
Footballguy
When it comes to those Catholics with the clout to "attempt to limit access to contraceptives," it ain't the 80% of naysayers that matter. It doesn't much matter what the rank and file want. It what the guys in the pointy hats say.
At least on this front, Francis is giving some ground. Big fan.
At least on this front, Francis is giving some ground. Big fan.
General Malaise
Footballguy
I personally would not associate myself in any way, shape or form with a church that not only turned a blind eye to sex abuse by its clergy, but was also complicit in its cover up. I would be so disgusted by the actions of those in charge of my church over their actions (and in too many cases, in-actions) that I would renounce my affiliation and look elsewhere for spiritual guidance. As hideous as you might find abortion, I find the sexual abuse of children to be far more repugnant and worthy of our scorn.
There is not enough throw-up in my body to express my disgust after watching this episode of Frontline.
Josie Maran
Footballguy
More like 95%. And I'd be willing to bet that goes for all of Christian faiths, at least in the US.
tommyboy
Footballguy
so, what you're saying is you'd turn your back on 1 billion of your fellow brothers and sisters in faith, because of the actions of a hundred or so jerks that will have to face God someday? In a typical parrish, you have 400-500 members and one priest. If the one priest is bad, does that mean the 400-500 are also? No, you remove the one bad apple and the herd marches forward. Now, having said that I totally agree with you that it was shameful, and the fact that our faith still considers only celebate, unmarried men as capable of being priests a stupid and old idea.
Enema > Super Bowl > Fat people porking > This > Popping sebaceous cysts, which I will trust can in fact be popped, but the popping of which sounds pretty dull to me.
butcher boy
Footballguy
if its a 5 minutes tops procedure like the article says, it cant be that invasive, right? Probably get a good vag shot at the very least.
KCitons
Footballguy
As I swill my happy hour beer and read this, Terrence Trent D'Arby is extolling the virtues of asking a wishing well for love over the jukebox sound system in a gravelly tenor. I think this may be one of those Come to Jesus moments, but I can't quite put my finger on the connection. Imma top off and see if the Holy Spirit speaks to me.
Donsmith753
Footballguy
Still not as bad as Gigli
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Why would you belong to a religion you don't believe in. Or follow a religion whose rule book you don't agree with?
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Why I Filmed My Abortion
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/advice/health/why-i-filmed-my-abortion
Becoming an abortion counselor was kind of unexpected. I was a professional actress for many years. I loved acting, but I felt fairly depressed most of the time. I disliked my body. I felt competitive toward women. I felt completely alienated from myself and everyone else because I was intent on being successful.
I had a friend who was a birth doula, and she fascinated me with her stories about giving birth and growing life. It led me to start looking at my body in a whole different way. I became what’s called a “birth junkie.” I trained as a doula and watched every documentary I could get my hands on. During my training, I learned there are three kinds of doulas: birth doulas, adoption doulas, and abortion doulas. A light went off in my head.
I had never been political about abortion rights before, but the idea of helping women through an abortion and supporting them and reassuring them that they are still wonderful and beautiful resonated deeply with me. I had spent so long in the trappings of competition with other women and putting too much pressure on myself that I just wanted to help women. I reached out to Cherry Hill right after I finished my training. I asked to volunteer, but instead they asked me to come in for a job interview. I was hired on the spot to be one of the clinic’s abortion counselors. I fell into this perfect world that fulfills me in so many different ways.
I found out I was pregnant in November. I had been working at the clinic for about a year. It was my first pregnancy, and, full disclosure, I hadn't been using any kind of birth control, which is crazy, I know. I’m a sex educator, and I love talking about birth control. Before this experience, hormonal birth control scared me because of complications I’d heard about from friends — gaining weight, depression, etc. So I tracked my ovulation cycle, and I didn’t have any long-term partners. I thought I was OK. But, you know, things happen. I wound up pregnant.
Working at an abortion clinic, you always think you’re pregnant. After hearing day in and day out stories from women not knowing they’re pregnant until 20 weeks or still getting their periods while pregnant, I take pregnancy tests all the time.
On a whim, I took a test, and it came up two pink lines. The moment when a woman looks down and sees those two pink lines and she’s not expecting to see them, it’s like time implodes and explodes simultaneously. You’re caught in this tornado that just sucks out all the breath in your lungs.
Once I caught my breath, I knew immediately I was going to have an abortion. I knew I wasn’t ready to take care of a child. The guy wasn’t involved in my decision. I called my supervisor and said, “Excuse me, I am going to need to schedule one abortion, please.” It was very early in the pregnancy, only two to three weeks.
Patients at the clinic always ask me if I can relate to them — have I had an abortion? Do I have kids? I was so used to saying, “I’ve never had an abortion but…” While I was pregnant and waiting for my procedure, I thought, “Wait a minute, I have to use this.”
At first I was just going to write a blog. Then my administrator introduced me to a woman on YouTube who goes by Angie AntiTheist. She filmed herself having a medical abortion — after taking the pill RU486 — to show everyone that she was fine, that it’s not scary, it doesn’t hurt, and that she was confident in her decision to do it.
There was, of course, a huge backlash. She got death threats and all this other stuff. But what inspired me so much about her is she kept following up. After every threat or ignorant comment, she would answer with a new video on her YouTube channel directly addressing the latest criticism. She didn’t hide from it. I loved that.
I searched the Internet, and I couldn’t find a video of an actual surgical procedure in the clinic that focused on the woman’s experience. We talk about abortion so much and yet no one really knows what it actually looks like. A first trimester abortion takes three to five minutes. It is safer than giving birth. There is no cutting, and risk of infertility is less than 1 percent. Yet women come into the clinic all the time terrified that they are going to be cut open, convinced that they won’t be able to have kids after the abortion. The misinformation is amazing, but think about it: They are still willing to sacrifice these things because they know that they can’t carry the child at this moment.
There are three options for a first-trimester abortion: medical abortion, which is the pill; a surgical abortion with IV sedation, where you’re asleep through the whole thing; and a surgical abortion with local anesthesia during which you’re awake. Women are most terrified of being awake.
I could have taken the pill, but I wanted to do the one that women were most afraid of. I wanted to show it wasn’t scary — and that there is such a thing as a positive abortion story. It’s my story.
Everyone at the clinic was really supportive of filming it. At first they wanted to sit down and talk about the real consequences of this. There are a lot of politics involved. We knew we could have hundreds of protesters at our door; we could have bomb threats. Working at an abortion clinic, every once in awhile it feels like you’re working in a war zone.
But I said, “Bring it,” and they were on board.
I knew the cameras were in the room during the procedure, but I forgot about them almost immediately. I was focused on staying positive and feeling the love from everyone in the room. I am so lucky that I knew everyone involved, and I was so supported. I remember breathing and humming through it like I was giving birth. I know that sounds weird, but to me, this was as birth-like as it could be. It will always be a special memory for me. I still have my sonogram, and if my apartment were to catch fire, it would be the first thing I'd grab.
The first night I posted the video to my Facebook page, I couldn’t sleep. I went out with friends, and I was so paranoid people were looking at me a certain way because they saw my video. The intimacy of it made me nervous, even though I really wanted people to see it.
Then I looked at my Facebook wall. I was expecting this tsunami of hateful, scary things, but everyone was so breathtakingly supportive. People who I have never talked to started writing their own abortion stories.
I had one woman who messaged me saying she'd had an abortion that week and she was plagued with guilt. Her boyfriend called her a killer, but she said she was recovering well and appreciated the video. Another woman told me she'd had a miscarriage and that because of my video she felt like she could talk to me about it. Just all of these things started pouring out of women.
There were hateful responses, of course, which was the hardest part of this whole thing. When I put it up on YouTube, pro-lifers put it on their newscasts. And so I got, “You’re a Nazi,” “You deserve to die,” “You killed your baby.” Just so much blind hatred without knowing who I am or what I’m about.
Still, every time I watch the video, I love it. I love how positive it is. I think that there are just no positive abortion stories on video for everyone to see. But mine is.
I know there are women who feel great remorse. I have seen the tears. Grieving is an important part of a woman’s process, but what I really wanted to address in my video is guilt.
Our society breeds this guilt. We inhale it from all directions. Even women who come to the clinic completely solid in their decision to have an abortion say they feel guilty for not feeling guilty. Even though they know 110 percent that this is the best decision for them, they pressure themselves to feel bad about it.
I didn’t feel bad. I do feel a little irresponsible and embarrassed about not using birth control. I mean, Emily, wake up! What are you doing? I was going against the advice I give to patients all the time. So I had them put an IUD in after the abortion. I was able to learn and move forward. And I am grateful that I can share my story and inspire other women to stop the guilt.
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/advice/health/why-i-filmed-my-abortion
Becoming an abortion counselor was kind of unexpected. I was a professional actress for many years. I loved acting, but I felt fairly depressed most of the time. I disliked my body. I felt competitive toward women. I felt completely alienated from myself and everyone else because I was intent on being successful.
I had a friend who was a birth doula, and she fascinated me with her stories about giving birth and growing life. It led me to start looking at my body in a whole different way. I became what’s called a “birth junkie.” I trained as a doula and watched every documentary I could get my hands on. During my training, I learned there are three kinds of doulas: birth doulas, adoption doulas, and abortion doulas. A light went off in my head.
I had never been political about abortion rights before, but the idea of helping women through an abortion and supporting them and reassuring them that they are still wonderful and beautiful resonated deeply with me. I had spent so long in the trappings of competition with other women and putting too much pressure on myself that I just wanted to help women. I reached out to Cherry Hill right after I finished my training. I asked to volunteer, but instead they asked me to come in for a job interview. I was hired on the spot to be one of the clinic’s abortion counselors. I fell into this perfect world that fulfills me in so many different ways.
I found out I was pregnant in November. I had been working at the clinic for about a year. It was my first pregnancy, and, full disclosure, I hadn't been using any kind of birth control, which is crazy, I know. I’m a sex educator, and I love talking about birth control. Before this experience, hormonal birth control scared me because of complications I’d heard about from friends — gaining weight, depression, etc. So I tracked my ovulation cycle, and I didn’t have any long-term partners. I thought I was OK. But, you know, things happen. I wound up pregnant.
Working at an abortion clinic, you always think you’re pregnant. After hearing day in and day out stories from women not knowing they’re pregnant until 20 weeks or still getting their periods while pregnant, I take pregnancy tests all the time.
On a whim, I took a test, and it came up two pink lines. The moment when a woman looks down and sees those two pink lines and she’s not expecting to see them, it’s like time implodes and explodes simultaneously. You’re caught in this tornado that just sucks out all the breath in your lungs.
Once I caught my breath, I knew immediately I was going to have an abortion. I knew I wasn’t ready to take care of a child. The guy wasn’t involved in my decision. I called my supervisor and said, “Excuse me, I am going to need to schedule one abortion, please.” It was very early in the pregnancy, only two to three weeks.
Patients at the clinic always ask me if I can relate to them — have I had an abortion? Do I have kids? I was so used to saying, “I’ve never had an abortion but…” While I was pregnant and waiting for my procedure, I thought, “Wait a minute, I have to use this.”
At first I was just going to write a blog. Then my administrator introduced me to a woman on YouTube who goes by Angie AntiTheist. She filmed herself having a medical abortion — after taking the pill RU486 — to show everyone that she was fine, that it’s not scary, it doesn’t hurt, and that she was confident in her decision to do it.
There was, of course, a huge backlash. She got death threats and all this other stuff. But what inspired me so much about her is she kept following up. After every threat or ignorant comment, she would answer with a new video on her YouTube channel directly addressing the latest criticism. She didn’t hide from it. I loved that.
I searched the Internet, and I couldn’t find a video of an actual surgical procedure in the clinic that focused on the woman’s experience. We talk about abortion so much and yet no one really knows what it actually looks like. A first trimester abortion takes three to five minutes. It is safer than giving birth. There is no cutting, and risk of infertility is less than 1 percent. Yet women come into the clinic all the time terrified that they are going to be cut open, convinced that they won’t be able to have kids after the abortion. The misinformation is amazing, but think about it: They are still willing to sacrifice these things because they know that they can’t carry the child at this moment.
There are three options for a first-trimester abortion: medical abortion, which is the pill; a surgical abortion with IV sedation, where you’re asleep through the whole thing; and a surgical abortion with local anesthesia during which you’re awake. Women are most terrified of being awake.
I could have taken the pill, but I wanted to do the one that women were most afraid of. I wanted to show it wasn’t scary — and that there is such a thing as a positive abortion story. It’s my story.
Everyone at the clinic was really supportive of filming it. At first they wanted to sit down and talk about the real consequences of this. There are a lot of politics involved. We knew we could have hundreds of protesters at our door; we could have bomb threats. Working at an abortion clinic, every once in awhile it feels like you’re working in a war zone.
But I said, “Bring it,” and they were on board.
I knew the cameras were in the room during the procedure, but I forgot about them almost immediately. I was focused on staying positive and feeling the love from everyone in the room. I am so lucky that I knew everyone involved, and I was so supported. I remember breathing and humming through it like I was giving birth. I know that sounds weird, but to me, this was as birth-like as it could be. It will always be a special memory for me. I still have my sonogram, and if my apartment were to catch fire, it would be the first thing I'd grab.
The first night I posted the video to my Facebook page, I couldn’t sleep. I went out with friends, and I was so paranoid people were looking at me a certain way because they saw my video. The intimacy of it made me nervous, even though I really wanted people to see it.
Then I looked at my Facebook wall. I was expecting this tsunami of hateful, scary things, but everyone was so breathtakingly supportive. People who I have never talked to started writing their own abortion stories.
I had one woman who messaged me saying she'd had an abortion that week and she was plagued with guilt. Her boyfriend called her a killer, but she said she was recovering well and appreciated the video. Another woman told me she'd had a miscarriage and that because of my video she felt like she could talk to me about it. Just all of these things started pouring out of women.
There were hateful responses, of course, which was the hardest part of this whole thing. When I put it up on YouTube, pro-lifers put it on their newscasts. And so I got, “You’re a Nazi,” “You deserve to die,” “You killed your baby.” Just so much blind hatred without knowing who I am or what I’m about.
Still, every time I watch the video, I love it. I love how positive it is. I think that there are just no positive abortion stories on video for everyone to see. But mine is.
I know there are women who feel great remorse. I have seen the tears. Grieving is an important part of a woman’s process, but what I really wanted to address in my video is guilt.
Our society breeds this guilt. We inhale it from all directions. Even women who come to the clinic completely solid in their decision to have an abortion say they feel guilty for not feeling guilty. Even though they know 110 percent that this is the best decision for them, they pressure themselves to feel bad about it.
I didn’t feel bad. I do feel a little irresponsible and embarrassed about not using birth control. I mean, Emily, wake up! What are you doing? I was going against the advice I give to patients all the time. So I had them put an IUD in after the abortion. I was able to learn and move forward. And I am grateful that I can share my story and inspire other women to stop the guilt.
