timschochet
Footballguy
Good point Bentley. So I suppose then that FDR was the second President to do this.
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World War II (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
From Wiki:The basesAntigua, British West Indies A Naval Air Station at Crabbs Peninsula [2] An Army Air Force airfield (Coolidge Army Airfield (later AFB) (closed 1949) British Guiana An Army Air Force airfield (Atkinson Aerodrome (later AFB)) (closed 1949) A Naval seaplane base near Suddie. Jamaica An Army Air Force airfield (Vernam Army Airfield (later AFB)) (closed 1949) A Naval Air Station (Little Goat Island) and a Naval facility at Port Royal Saint Lucia, British West Indies An Army Air Force airfield (Beane Army Airfield (later AFB)) (closed 1949) A Naval Air Station (Gros Islet Bay) Bermuda An Army Air Force airfield (Fort Bell Army Airfield (later Kindley AFB)) (transferred to U.S. Navy 1970, then closed 1995) Newfoundland and Labrador Several Army Air Force airfields Pepperrell Airfield (later AFB) (closed August 1961) Goose Bay Army Airfield (later AFB) (turned over to Canadian Forces, July 1976) Stephenville Army Airfield (later AFB) (closed December 1966) McAndrew Airfield (later AFB) (transferred to U.S. Navy, 1955) A Naval Air Station Naval Station Argentia (closed 1994) Multiple Marine and Army Bases and detachments in support of the above. Trinidad, British West Indies Two Army Air Force airfields Waller Army Airfield (later AFB) (closed 1949) Carlsen Army Airfield (later AFB) (closed 1949) A Naval Operating Base, a Naval Air Station, blimp base, and a radio station
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
Japanese Internment?I see Christo beat me to it.
At least you know we're paying attention.
Copeman
Footballguy
For those following this that do not know what some of the military hardware already discussed looks like, here are some basic pics:
German Stuka (JU-87)
German Heinkel 111
German Messerschmitt BF-109
British Spitfire
British Hurricane
There are various versions of each plane, and some were flown by other countries as well. I may add more in other posts as the thread develops. But it seems like these one's listed were the ones we have been focusing on.
German Stuka (JU-87)
German Heinkel 111
German Messerschmitt BF-109
British Spitfire
British Hurricane
There are various versions of each plane, and some were flown by other countries as well. I may add more in other posts as the thread develops. But it seems like these one's listed were the ones we have been focusing on.
Harry Manback
Footballguy
I feel like I'm reading a WWII book, and a damned good one at that.
Masked Vigilante
Footballguy
How would the Japanese have fared if Godzilla was on their team?
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Solid thread. When you do the Civil War one, let me know
Very good question. Is Mothra going to show up for the Allies?
I just downloaded the first three parts of this and am planning to start listening to it while I'm mowing the lawn tonight.
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
I've actually thought of doing a daily War Between the States update during the sesquicentennial.
Copeman
Footballguy
Today is Tuesday, August 25, 2009
Today in
World War II History
1939 - Britain and Poland signed a Mutual Assistance Treaty.
1940 - British air raids on Berlin began.
1941 - Allied forces invaded Iran. Within four days the Soviet Union and England controlled Iran.
1943 - U.S. forces overran New Georgia in the Solomon Islands during World War II.
1944 - Paris, France, was liberated by Allied forces ending four years of German occupation.
1944 - Romania declared war on Germany.
1967 - American Nazi leader George Lincoln Rockwell was assassinated by a sniper.
Random World War II Quote
"The fate of the Empire rests on this enterprise every man must devote himself totally to the task in hand."
Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto - Commander in Chief of the Japanese Navy - December 7, 1941
link
Today in
World War II History
1939 - Britain and Poland signed a Mutual Assistance Treaty.
1940 - British air raids on Berlin began.
1941 - Allied forces invaded Iran. Within four days the Soviet Union and England controlled Iran.
1943 - U.S. forces overran New Georgia in the Solomon Islands during World War II.
1944 - Paris, France, was liberated by Allied forces ending four years of German occupation.
1944 - Romania declared war on Germany.
1967 - American Nazi leader George Lincoln Rockwell was assassinated by a sniper.
Random World War II Quote
"The fate of the Empire rests on this enterprise every man must devote himself totally to the task in hand."
Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto - Commander in Chief of the Japanese Navy - December 7, 1941
link
timschochet
Footballguy
I am very embarrassed that I forgot about FDR's role in the Japanese Internment. Don't know what I was thinking. Rest assured that we will cover that, in detail, later on.
timschochet
Footballguy
Italy invades Greece
By the fall of 1940, Adolf Hitler was already looking ahead to the invasion of the Soviet Union. He calculated that it would be a relatively easy affair, as Poland and France had been. Perhaps he considered himself invincible at this point. Once Russia was dealt with, he could then revamp and destroy England once and for all.
However, in order to accomplish this, the Balkans had to be settled first. He threatened Romania and in August of 1940 forced that country to cede 3,000 miles to Bulgaria, and cede Transylvania to Hungary. After a threatened coup, in October German and Italian troops occupied Romania and made it part of the Axis. Hungary was next, and pressure was being brought to bear upon Bulgaria and Yugoslavia (more on Yugoslavia later.)
That left Greece. The Greeks were ruled by fascist dictatorship under Joannes Metaxas, but they were pro- English. Mussolini was chomping at the bit for way to prove himself to Hitler. On October 15, 1940, he summoned a war council of his generals, and they assured him that Greece would be an easy conquest. Delighted, Mussolini sent Greece a warning- surrender to Italian rule or else! The Greeks refused. On October 28, 200,000 Italian troops poured across the border from occupied Albania, singing "Gionivinezza", the Fascist hymn.
The Greeks had a small army of perhaps 50,000 men, a few hundred old airplanes, no mechanized equipment, and very few heavy weapons. Their defensive line faced Bulgaria, not Albania. Under Metaxas direction, the army's elite infantrymen hid in the hills, and waited patiently until the Italians had wandered far into Greek valleys, well ahead of their supply lines. Then they struck. At the same time, heavy rains dampened the roads. The Italians were forced backwards, and soon the retreat became a wild rout. The Greeks pursued them into Albania. 16 Greek divisions chased 27 Italian divisions deep into Albania and penned them up in the mountains.
To make matters worse for Mussolini, the Admiralty now struck a shattering blow to Italian morale: the British carrier Illustrious made a daring aerial attack on the Italian fleet at Taranto, putting it out of action for 6 months. (This attack was closely studied by the Japanese embassy in Rome, but not, unfortunately, by the American navy.)
But both of these sad defeats for the Italians were nothing compared to the North Africa debacle I am about to describe.
By the fall of 1940, Adolf Hitler was already looking ahead to the invasion of the Soviet Union. He calculated that it would be a relatively easy affair, as Poland and France had been. Perhaps he considered himself invincible at this point. Once Russia was dealt with, he could then revamp and destroy England once and for all.
However, in order to accomplish this, the Balkans had to be settled first. He threatened Romania and in August of 1940 forced that country to cede 3,000 miles to Bulgaria, and cede Transylvania to Hungary. After a threatened coup, in October German and Italian troops occupied Romania and made it part of the Axis. Hungary was next, and pressure was being brought to bear upon Bulgaria and Yugoslavia (more on Yugoslavia later.)
That left Greece. The Greeks were ruled by fascist dictatorship under Joannes Metaxas, but they were pro- English. Mussolini was chomping at the bit for way to prove himself to Hitler. On October 15, 1940, he summoned a war council of his generals, and they assured him that Greece would be an easy conquest. Delighted, Mussolini sent Greece a warning- surrender to Italian rule or else! The Greeks refused. On October 28, 200,000 Italian troops poured across the border from occupied Albania, singing "Gionivinezza", the Fascist hymn.
The Greeks had a small army of perhaps 50,000 men, a few hundred old airplanes, no mechanized equipment, and very few heavy weapons. Their defensive line faced Bulgaria, not Albania. Under Metaxas direction, the army's elite infantrymen hid in the hills, and waited patiently until the Italians had wandered far into Greek valleys, well ahead of their supply lines. Then they struck. At the same time, heavy rains dampened the roads. The Italians were forced backwards, and soon the retreat became a wild rout. The Greeks pursued them into Albania. 16 Greek divisions chased 27 Italian divisions deep into Albania and penned them up in the mountains.
To make matters worse for Mussolini, the Admiralty now struck a shattering blow to Italian morale: the British carrier Illustrious made a daring aerial attack on the Italian fleet at Taranto, putting it out of action for 6 months. (This attack was closely studied by the Japanese embassy in Rome, but not, unfortunately, by the American navy.)
But both of these sad defeats for the Italians were nothing compared to the North Africa debacle I am about to describe.
timschochet
Footballguy
North Africa Part One
Britain's Middle East Command encompassed all of unoccupied North Africa on the West to Persia on the East. This was the vital supply line in which England received all of her oil, and it was second only in importance to England herself. Cut off the Suez Canal, capture Egypt and then Persia- and the British Empire is lost.
In command of this theatre was General Sir Archibald Wavell, who is considered by many historians to be Britain's finest soldier in the entire war. He was a quiet, dapper, patrician, and very patient- in fact, his patience would soon get on Churchill's nerves as we shall see.
To defend this vast area of 2000 miles, Wavell had a ragtag army of less than 40,000 men, 64 field guns, and an armored division far below strength. Realizing the main threat came from the Italian forces in North Africa, Wavell sent 30,000 men, his armor, and his best field general, Richard O' Connor to defend. There they faced an Italian army of 300,000, ten times their number.
O'Connor was bold and unorthodox, called the Little Terrier because of his short size and tenacity. The man opposing him was Marshall Rodolfo Graziani.
Graziani was considered the "hero of Ethiopia"; he had displayed a great skill at using a mechanized army to conquer men with spears. Against the British, however, he hesistated. And hesitated. And hesitated some more. Throughout the fall of 1940 Mussolini urged him to attack, but Graziani insisted the risk was too great, even though he was aware that he outnumbered the enemy in men and equipment by 10-1. Then Graziani wrote an amazing letter to Il Duce informing him that it would only be safe to attack the British "once England had been occupied by Germany"!!
In exasperation, Mussolini replied that unless the Italians attacked within 48 hours, Graziani would be replaced, flown back to Rome, and executed for treason. This got the Marshall moving.
About 100,000 men attacked behind a heavy artillery barrage, which fell on empty British frontier posts. O'Connor had retreated skillfully into the desert, leaving little behind. Squads of British would appear suddenly and attack the Italian flanks, and then vanish as quickly as they appeared. Graziani adavance 8 miles into Egypt (still 80 miles from O' Connor) and halted at Sidi Barrani. There, he radioed back to Rome of his "glorious victory" and instructed the locals to make a monument in his honor. They had not quite completed this when the British shocked them by attacking.
Britain's Middle East Command encompassed all of unoccupied North Africa on the West to Persia on the East. This was the vital supply line in which England received all of her oil, and it was second only in importance to England herself. Cut off the Suez Canal, capture Egypt and then Persia- and the British Empire is lost.
In command of this theatre was General Sir Archibald Wavell, who is considered by many historians to be Britain's finest soldier in the entire war. He was a quiet, dapper, patrician, and very patient- in fact, his patience would soon get on Churchill's nerves as we shall see.
To defend this vast area of 2000 miles, Wavell had a ragtag army of less than 40,000 men, 64 field guns, and an armored division far below strength. Realizing the main threat came from the Italian forces in North Africa, Wavell sent 30,000 men, his armor, and his best field general, Richard O' Connor to defend. There they faced an Italian army of 300,000, ten times their number.
O'Connor was bold and unorthodox, called the Little Terrier because of his short size and tenacity. The man opposing him was Marshall Rodolfo Graziani.
Graziani was considered the "hero of Ethiopia"; he had displayed a great skill at using a mechanized army to conquer men with spears. Against the British, however, he hesistated. And hesitated. And hesitated some more. Throughout the fall of 1940 Mussolini urged him to attack, but Graziani insisted the risk was too great, even though he was aware that he outnumbered the enemy in men and equipment by 10-1. Then Graziani wrote an amazing letter to Il Duce informing him that it would only be safe to attack the British "once England had been occupied by Germany"!!
In exasperation, Mussolini replied that unless the Italians attacked within 48 hours, Graziani would be replaced, flown back to Rome, and executed for treason. This got the Marshall moving.
About 100,000 men attacked behind a heavy artillery barrage, which fell on empty British frontier posts. O'Connor had retreated skillfully into the desert, leaving little behind. Squads of British would appear suddenly and attack the Italian flanks, and then vanish as quickly as they appeared. Graziani adavance 8 miles into Egypt (still 80 miles from O' Connor) and halted at Sidi Barrani. There, he radioed back to Rome of his "glorious victory" and instructed the locals to make a monument in his honor. They had not quite completed this when the British shocked them by attacking.
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Redwes25
Footballguy
There are a few Japanese americans that would probably disagree.ETA - bunch of people beat me to it
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Anyone who wants to read an entertaining fictionalized version of these events should pick up Wilbur Smith's Cry Wolf.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Thanks for the link. Great stuff. On part 3 now.
timschochet
Footballguy
North Africa Part Two
Because Graziani had wasted so much time, O'Connor was stronger and better prepared. His armored division was now at full strength, and he had heavy new "I" tanks. He also had recieved new divisions from India and Australia and a brigade from New Zealand. But he was still completely outnumbered, particularly in the air. To compensate, he came up with a daring plan: In the spirit of Robert E. Lee, he would divide up his forces. His artillery would attack from the east, creating panic, while the I tanks would circle behind the Italians and attack from the rear. (It is important that this is possible in desert warfare- because the land is often seemingly endless without obstacles, it is possible to completely bypass your opponent, especially if you have armor. Richard O' Connor was the first to recognize this new set of rules, and Rommel would later master it.) Meanwhile, scouts had told O'Connor that the northwest corner of the camp was not mined, and this was where the infantry would sneak up and attack. O'Connor reckoned that if they could get close enough to the camp before attacking, they would have the protection from air of the camp itself- Italian pilots would hesitate to fire on their own troops. Like Lee's attacks in the Civil War, everything depended on speed and surprise.
The attack took place on December 9 in the middle of a sandstorm. This actually helped the British because the Italians could not be sure how many were attacking. The Italians took to their heels and after 2 days it was over. All around the British were food dumps, abandoned tanks and trucks, weapons of every caliber, and piles of ammunition. 38,000 prisoners were taken, and the threat to Suez was stopped (for the time being.) Encouraged by this victory, O'Connor requested he be allowed to pursue the foe into Libya. At first Wavell hesitated; he was worried about O'Connor overrunning his supply lines. The Little Terrier replied that if he could capture Italian supplies on the way, he could create his own supply line. Wavell decided to gamble that O'Connor was right, and he let him go.
The first objective in Libya was the fortress of Bardia. This was a little town on a paved harbor- if captured, it provided a way into Tobruk, which was the main supply port for the Italians and the key spot on the penisula. But Bardia was held by 45,000 men and 400 guns under the command of General Borgonzoli. Mussolini had wired him: "I have given you the noble task of defending Bardia to the last man! All Italy is watching!" Borgonzoli replied valiantly, "We may all die here, but Bardia will not be taken while one of us has breath!"
Because Graziani had wasted so much time, O'Connor was stronger and better prepared. His armored division was now at full strength, and he had heavy new "I" tanks. He also had recieved new divisions from India and Australia and a brigade from New Zealand. But he was still completely outnumbered, particularly in the air. To compensate, he came up with a daring plan: In the spirit of Robert E. Lee, he would divide up his forces. His artillery would attack from the east, creating panic, while the I tanks would circle behind the Italians and attack from the rear. (It is important that this is possible in desert warfare- because the land is often seemingly endless without obstacles, it is possible to completely bypass your opponent, especially if you have armor. Richard O' Connor was the first to recognize this new set of rules, and Rommel would later master it.) Meanwhile, scouts had told O'Connor that the northwest corner of the camp was not mined, and this was where the infantry would sneak up and attack. O'Connor reckoned that if they could get close enough to the camp before attacking, they would have the protection from air of the camp itself- Italian pilots would hesitate to fire on their own troops. Like Lee's attacks in the Civil War, everything depended on speed and surprise.
The attack took place on December 9 in the middle of a sandstorm. This actually helped the British because the Italians could not be sure how many were attacking. The Italians took to their heels and after 2 days it was over. All around the British were food dumps, abandoned tanks and trucks, weapons of every caliber, and piles of ammunition. 38,000 prisoners were taken, and the threat to Suez was stopped (for the time being.) Encouraged by this victory, O'Connor requested he be allowed to pursue the foe into Libya. At first Wavell hesitated; he was worried about O'Connor overrunning his supply lines. The Little Terrier replied that if he could capture Italian supplies on the way, he could create his own supply line. Wavell decided to gamble that O'Connor was right, and he let him go.
The first objective in Libya was the fortress of Bardia. This was a little town on a paved harbor- if captured, it provided a way into Tobruk, which was the main supply port for the Italians and the key spot on the penisula. But Bardia was held by 45,000 men and 400 guns under the command of General Borgonzoli. Mussolini had wired him: "I have given you the noble task of defending Bardia to the last man! All Italy is watching!" Borgonzoli replied valiantly, "We may all die here, but Bardia will not be taken while one of us has breath!"
timschochet
Footballguy
North Africa Part Three
O'Connor was not a set piece commander; his attack against Bardia was very different from his attack against Sidi Barrani. Bardia was guarded by an 18 mile belt of defenses, the chief one being an antitank ditch 4 feet deep and 12 feet wide. Obviously, the infantry here would have to precede the tanks. A bridgehead would have to be secured across the ditch, and an area cleared in the minefield beyond. Then the large tanks could assault the fortress itself.
On the bitter cold night of January 2, 1941, all the British tanks with their exhaust mufflers removed went roaring up and down near the Bardia defenses to delude the Italians into thinking a powerful force of armor was coming against them. An hour after midnight Australian foot soldiers crawled forward to the barbed wire surrounding the trenches and waited. Then O'Connor opened up with every gun he had. The barrage pinned down the Italians and distracted them while the Aussies cleared the barbed wire and opened paths into the minefield. They managed to cover the ditches in two key spots, and in rolled the tanks. This time the Italians fought well, but O'Connor's brilliant strategy had secured the victory. By nightfall Bardia was captured.
Here are the amazing numbers from this battle:
British Casualties, Wounded or Captured: 200
Italian Casualties, Wounded or Captured: 40,000
The Australians were most excited by the Italian champagne, with which they toasted their victories and sang "Waltzing Matilda." Meanwhile, O'Connor did not wait. The moment Bardia fell, he ordered his armored division to rush pell mell for Tobruk.
Tobruk was 200 miles west of O'Connor's supply line. He had to take the fortress, otherwise he and his men actually risked death and possible starvation in the desert- the tanks did not have enough fuel to return in the opposite direction! Tobruk also was a water distillation plant. It was guarded by less men than Bardia: 32,000 troops, because the Italians had not expected Bardia to fall so quickly. O'Connor launched his straight forward assault on January 21. The artillery so surprised and stunned the defenders that they were prepared to surrender even before the tanks struck. The Italians sent out their own tanks to counterattack, but these were poorly made and operated, and easily destroyed. Tobruk surrendered the next day, with 25,000 prisoners. But the Little Terrier was only getting started. Up next: Benghazi. If he could drive the Italians out there, that would effectively finish them in Libya altogether.
Benghazi was surrounded by rugged hills which could not be easily penetrated by armor. O'Connor now had heard strong rumors that Churchill might pull him back in order to help out Greece, so he was determined to hurry. However, this final assault was too much for him; he simply did not have enough tanks and men to pursue yet another foe. As luck turned out, however, the Italians, in panic, had decided to retreat from Benghazi and head for Tripoli. To do so, they had to escape through a valley known as Beda Fomm. O'Connor rushed his tanks into Beda Fomm first, in order to stop the escape and trap the Italians. The Italians fought to break out, and were decimated. Finally on February 7, the entire Italian 10th Army had surrendered.
In two months, Richard O Connor and his ragtag team of Brits, Aussies, New Zelanders and Indians had advanced 500 miles, won 4 major battles, captured 130,000 men, destroyed an Italian army with 10 divisions, captured 400 tanks, hundreds of other armored vehicles, and supplies, along with two major fortresses. All at a cost of 476 killed and 1,225 wounded.
O'Connor was not a set piece commander; his attack against Bardia was very different from his attack against Sidi Barrani. Bardia was guarded by an 18 mile belt of defenses, the chief one being an antitank ditch 4 feet deep and 12 feet wide. Obviously, the infantry here would have to precede the tanks. A bridgehead would have to be secured across the ditch, and an area cleared in the minefield beyond. Then the large tanks could assault the fortress itself.
On the bitter cold night of January 2, 1941, all the British tanks with their exhaust mufflers removed went roaring up and down near the Bardia defenses to delude the Italians into thinking a powerful force of armor was coming against them. An hour after midnight Australian foot soldiers crawled forward to the barbed wire surrounding the trenches and waited. Then O'Connor opened up with every gun he had. The barrage pinned down the Italians and distracted them while the Aussies cleared the barbed wire and opened paths into the minefield. They managed to cover the ditches in two key spots, and in rolled the tanks. This time the Italians fought well, but O'Connor's brilliant strategy had secured the victory. By nightfall Bardia was captured.
Here are the amazing numbers from this battle:
British Casualties, Wounded or Captured: 200
Italian Casualties, Wounded or Captured: 40,000
The Australians were most excited by the Italian champagne, with which they toasted their victories and sang "Waltzing Matilda." Meanwhile, O'Connor did not wait. The moment Bardia fell, he ordered his armored division to rush pell mell for Tobruk.
Tobruk was 200 miles west of O'Connor's supply line. He had to take the fortress, otherwise he and his men actually risked death and possible starvation in the desert- the tanks did not have enough fuel to return in the opposite direction! Tobruk also was a water distillation plant. It was guarded by less men than Bardia: 32,000 troops, because the Italians had not expected Bardia to fall so quickly. O'Connor launched his straight forward assault on January 21. The artillery so surprised and stunned the defenders that they were prepared to surrender even before the tanks struck. The Italians sent out their own tanks to counterattack, but these were poorly made and operated, and easily destroyed. Tobruk surrendered the next day, with 25,000 prisoners. But the Little Terrier was only getting started. Up next: Benghazi. If he could drive the Italians out there, that would effectively finish them in Libya altogether.
Benghazi was surrounded by rugged hills which could not be easily penetrated by armor. O'Connor now had heard strong rumors that Churchill might pull him back in order to help out Greece, so he was determined to hurry. However, this final assault was too much for him; he simply did not have enough tanks and men to pursue yet another foe. As luck turned out, however, the Italians, in panic, had decided to retreat from Benghazi and head for Tripoli. To do so, they had to escape through a valley known as Beda Fomm. O'Connor rushed his tanks into Beda Fomm first, in order to stop the escape and trap the Italians. The Italians fought to break out, and were decimated. Finally on February 7, the entire Italian 10th Army had surrendered.
In two months, Richard O Connor and his ragtag team of Brits, Aussies, New Zelanders and Indians had advanced 500 miles, won 4 major battles, captured 130,000 men, destroyed an Italian army with 10 divisions, captured 400 tanks, hundreds of other armored vehicles, and supplies, along with two major fortresses. All at a cost of 476 killed and 1,225 wounded.
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timschochet
Footballguy
We will be returning to North Africa shortly. But first we need to change gears and discuss the creation of one of the most important government programs ever in the history of the United States. That is forthcoming.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
In the early spring of 1940, the U.S. military faced a seemingly insurmountable task. With Poland overrun by German armored columns now poised to strike at France, and China under assault by Japan, America’s commanders had to prepare the U.S. military for war. The problem was not a dearth of troops—after Adolf Hitler’s blitzkrieg rolled through Poland in September 1939, Congress had mobilized the National Guard and Reserve and approved an increase in the size of the Army. It was that the existing troops were poorly trained or not trained at all.
No one was more acutely aware of this than Army Chief of Staff General George C. Marshall. A student of history, Marshall was certain American boys were as courageous as any German or Japanese soldier, but they lacked sufficient training and combat experience—and time was short. Marshall concluded that what America’s burgeoning ranks needed was a complex training exercise, an exacting test in an environment that would closely approximate the realities of the battlefield.
To help implement his idea, Marshall called on Lt. Gen. Stanley D. Embick, a veteran soldier and commander of the Third U.S. Army, headquartered in Atlanta. Marshall directed Embick to find a suitable location where thousands of U.S. troops could be deployed in a series of maneuvers to test their readiness. Armed with these instructions and accompanied by his aide, Major Mark Clark, Embick traveled to central Louisiana, where the Army had trained many of its soldiers during World War I. With a tattered road map as a guide, Embick and Clark tramped through Louisiana’s backcountry, noting the roads, trails, swamps and forests.
The area that they carved out, in the backcountry of Louisiana and reaching into Texas, almost a million acres, became the scene of army training and maneuvers in the spring and summer of 1940, and again in 1941. By 1941, the maneuvers would involve almost 400,000 men.
The maneuvers were made to be as realistic as possible. Loudspeakers would blare the recorded sounds of battle, canister smoke would shroud the battlefield, and bags of white sand would be dropped from aircraft to simulate the impact of artillery shells. U.S. Army Air Corps spotter and reconnaissance planes would gather intelligence, while transports would deliver troops to newly constructed airfields. Planners stockpiled millions of rounds of blank ammunition, and there were established rules to govern when units would join the line of fire and what kinds of “casualties” they’d suffer. The goal was not only to determine who could “kill” whom, but also to test the time it took medical units to transfer the “wounded” to rear-area combat hospitals. There were also hundreds of trained of maneuver “umpires,” who, armed with clipboards and armbands, would monitor and assess units and leaders according to a complex grading system.
General George C. Marshall focused considerable time on the 1941 maneuvers, calling them “a combat college for troop leading” and a laboratory to test the “new armored, antitank and air forces that had come of age since 1918.” He personally observed many of the corps- and division-level maneuvers and, in the autumn, an expanded training exercise in the hills of North and South Carolina. But the major focus was on the Red vs. Blue conflict in Louisiana and East Texas. The mock war began on September 15—just three months before Pearl Harbor—and pitted Lt. Gen. Ben Lear’s Second (Red) Army against Krueger’s Third (Blue) Army. Lear’s goal was to defeat the Blue Army and occupy Louisiana. A hard-bitten, gruff-talking disciplinarian, Lear was not well liked by his troops, but he had an eye for detail and was surrounded by a cadre of talented and aggressive officers, including veterans of Embick’s 1940 exercises. Among them was Patton, whom Lear tasked to lead a lightning combined-arms strike against Krueger’s Louisiana defenses.
Krueger, an aging veteran and competitive taskmaster who too quickly bristled at unintended slights, desperately wanted to beat Lear. He gathered a staff of brainy if little-known assistants, including Lt. Col. Dwight Eisenhower as his chief of staff. Eisenhower was an old friend of Patton and, in May, began meticulously planning Louisiana’s defenses against Patton’s tanks. Marshall, who had doubts about Eisenhower, accepted Krueger’s word that “Ike” was a brilliant planner and tough soldier.
Krueger’s judgment of Eisenhower was soon proven on the Louisiana battlefield. Lear’s army crossed the Red River on September 15 with Patton’s tanks in the lead. Eisenhower was ready. Three of Krueger’s mobile corps rapidly responded to the Red Army threat and moved to pin it against the river. Patton laughed off the threat, even circulating an offer to subordinates of $50 to any man who captured “a certain SOB called Eisenhower.” Unperturbed, Ike and Krueger ordered their armored units to flank Patton and prevent a breakout. Umpires deemed the maneuver successful. The first part of the war was over. The Blue Army, and Eisenhower, had won.
Later on, Patton went on to lead the Red Army in a smashing tank advance, bringing victory to the Reds. Marshall noticed all of this, and he kept notes on the leaders he saw emerging. Shortly after the maneuvers finished in 1941, he brought Eisenhower to Washington to be on his planning staff.
If there was If there is one hero of the maneuvers, it is General Lesley McNair, who was everywhere at once, watching and taking notes. From these notes McNair—whom Marshall appointed commanding general of Army Ground Forces—shaped the most intensive and physically demanding training regimen for regular soldiers in American history. Over the next four years, until he was killed while watching the soldiers he had trained advance into Normandy, McNair molded the cadre of sergeants who became the backbone of the Army—the small-unit leaders he worried about during the steamy Louisiana summer of 1941.
The Louisiana Maneuvers provided vital training for the tens of thousands of American boys who would go on to fight and win on the battlefields of Europe and the Pacific. In the midst of that global conflict, soldiers who had battled near Shreveport, driven tanks in East Texas, flown reconnaissance missions over Evangeline Parish, or simply fought off the chiggers and ticks, would acknowledge the bond forged during a make-believe war. A Walk in the Sun, one of Hollywood’s most poignant accounts of World War II combat, features a memorable scene in which American soldiers slog forward under fire near Salerno to capture a farmhouse. Members of the platoon laughingly agree: Their assignment is going to be tough, but “it can’t be worse than the Louisiana Maneuvers.”
No one was more acutely aware of this than Army Chief of Staff General George C. Marshall. A student of history, Marshall was certain American boys were as courageous as any German or Japanese soldier, but they lacked sufficient training and combat experience—and time was short. Marshall concluded that what America’s burgeoning ranks needed was a complex training exercise, an exacting test in an environment that would closely approximate the realities of the battlefield.
To help implement his idea, Marshall called on Lt. Gen. Stanley D. Embick, a veteran soldier and commander of the Third U.S. Army, headquartered in Atlanta. Marshall directed Embick to find a suitable location where thousands of U.S. troops could be deployed in a series of maneuvers to test their readiness. Armed with these instructions and accompanied by his aide, Major Mark Clark, Embick traveled to central Louisiana, where the Army had trained many of its soldiers during World War I. With a tattered road map as a guide, Embick and Clark tramped through Louisiana’s backcountry, noting the roads, trails, swamps and forests.
The area that they carved out, in the backcountry of Louisiana and reaching into Texas, almost a million acres, became the scene of army training and maneuvers in the spring and summer of 1940, and again in 1941. By 1941, the maneuvers would involve almost 400,000 men.
The maneuvers were made to be as realistic as possible. Loudspeakers would blare the recorded sounds of battle, canister smoke would shroud the battlefield, and bags of white sand would be dropped from aircraft to simulate the impact of artillery shells. U.S. Army Air Corps spotter and reconnaissance planes would gather intelligence, while transports would deliver troops to newly constructed airfields. Planners stockpiled millions of rounds of blank ammunition, and there were established rules to govern when units would join the line of fire and what kinds of “casualties” they’d suffer. The goal was not only to determine who could “kill” whom, but also to test the time it took medical units to transfer the “wounded” to rear-area combat hospitals. There were also hundreds of trained of maneuver “umpires,” who, armed with clipboards and armbands, would monitor and assess units and leaders according to a complex grading system.
General George C. Marshall focused considerable time on the 1941 maneuvers, calling them “a combat college for troop leading” and a laboratory to test the “new armored, antitank and air forces that had come of age since 1918.” He personally observed many of the corps- and division-level maneuvers and, in the autumn, an expanded training exercise in the hills of North and South Carolina. But the major focus was on the Red vs. Blue conflict in Louisiana and East Texas. The mock war began on September 15—just three months before Pearl Harbor—and pitted Lt. Gen. Ben Lear’s Second (Red) Army against Krueger’s Third (Blue) Army. Lear’s goal was to defeat the Blue Army and occupy Louisiana. A hard-bitten, gruff-talking disciplinarian, Lear was not well liked by his troops, but he had an eye for detail and was surrounded by a cadre of talented and aggressive officers, including veterans of Embick’s 1940 exercises. Among them was Patton, whom Lear tasked to lead a lightning combined-arms strike against Krueger’s Louisiana defenses.
Krueger, an aging veteran and competitive taskmaster who too quickly bristled at unintended slights, desperately wanted to beat Lear. He gathered a staff of brainy if little-known assistants, including Lt. Col. Dwight Eisenhower as his chief of staff. Eisenhower was an old friend of Patton and, in May, began meticulously planning Louisiana’s defenses against Patton’s tanks. Marshall, who had doubts about Eisenhower, accepted Krueger’s word that “Ike” was a brilliant planner and tough soldier.
Krueger’s judgment of Eisenhower was soon proven on the Louisiana battlefield. Lear’s army crossed the Red River on September 15 with Patton’s tanks in the lead. Eisenhower was ready. Three of Krueger’s mobile corps rapidly responded to the Red Army threat and moved to pin it against the river. Patton laughed off the threat, even circulating an offer to subordinates of $50 to any man who captured “a certain SOB called Eisenhower.” Unperturbed, Ike and Krueger ordered their armored units to flank Patton and prevent a breakout. Umpires deemed the maneuver successful. The first part of the war was over. The Blue Army, and Eisenhower, had won.
Later on, Patton went on to lead the Red Army in a smashing tank advance, bringing victory to the Reds. Marshall noticed all of this, and he kept notes on the leaders he saw emerging. Shortly after the maneuvers finished in 1941, he brought Eisenhower to Washington to be on his planning staff.
If there was If there is one hero of the maneuvers, it is General Lesley McNair, who was everywhere at once, watching and taking notes. From these notes McNair—whom Marshall appointed commanding general of Army Ground Forces—shaped the most intensive and physically demanding training regimen for regular soldiers in American history. Over the next four years, until he was killed while watching the soldiers he had trained advance into Normandy, McNair molded the cadre of sergeants who became the backbone of the Army—the small-unit leaders he worried about during the steamy Louisiana summer of 1941.
The Louisiana Maneuvers provided vital training for the tens of thousands of American boys who would go on to fight and win on the battlefields of Europe and the Pacific. In the midst of that global conflict, soldiers who had battled near Shreveport, driven tanks in East Texas, flown reconnaissance missions over Evangeline Parish, or simply fought off the chiggers and ticks, would acknowledge the bond forged during a make-believe war. A Walk in the Sun, one of Hollywood’s most poignant accounts of World War II combat, features a memorable scene in which American soldiers slog forward under fire near Salerno to capture a farmhouse. Members of the platoon laughingly agree: Their assignment is going to be tough, but “it can’t be worse than the Louisiana Maneuvers.”
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timschochet
Footballguy
Wow. That is one great story, Ozyandius, and I've never heard it before. Thank you!
Ozymandias
Footballguy
And you may remember this, from the movie Patton:"Now I want you to remember that no ******* ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ******* die for his country. Thirty years from now, when you're sitting around your fireside with your grandson on your knee and he asks you, "What did you do in the great World War II," you won't have to say, "Well... I shoveled #### in Louisiana."
timschochet
Footballguy
Lend-Lease
A month after Roosevelt's re-election, he received a letter from Winston Churchill. Churchill later termed it "the most important letter I have written in my life." In this letter, Churchill basically laid out England's financial problems. He told FDR that England could no longer afford to pay for the war materials they need, and that the U-Boats were strangling their ability to deliver them. Churchill concluded:
If, as I believe, you are convinced, Mr. President, that the defeat of the Nazi and Fascist tyranny is a matter of high consequence tot the people of the United States and to the Western Hemisphere, you will regard this letter not as an appeal for aid, but as a statement of the minimum action necessary to achieve our common purpose.
Roosevelt pondered the letter for a week, and then came up with Lend-Lease, according to history all by himself. As he explained it to the American public in a Fireside Chat (radio broadcast):
Suppose my neighbor's house catches on fire and I have a length of garden hose four or five hundred feet away. If he can take my garden hose and connect it to his hydrant, I may help him put out the fire. Now, I don't say to him before that transaction, "Neighbor, my hose cost me fifteen dollars; you have to pay me fifteen dollars for it." No! I don't want fifteen dollars- I want my garden hose back after the fire is over.
This is brilliant propaganda but of course it was completely absurd. First off, if your neighbor is having a fire, you don't just hand him your water hose and then stand there and watch him try to put out the fire, you help him do it. Second, weapons, tanks, and airplanes are not water hoses. Finally, and most important, of course you're not going to get the equipment back. In fact, FDR was not proposing to lend or lease anything; he was proposing a complete giveaway. There was never any expectation of returned items or payment. In this sense, Lend-Lease was a fraud.
Lend-Lease was a brilliant idea, and it probably saved the world. It was, in my humble opinion, FDR's greatest achievement, far greater than his domestic accomplishments of the previous decade, and even slightly greater than his stewardship of the war. It turned America into the world power we are today. It was not seen that way at the time by isolationists, who predicted that "Lend-Lease will plow under every fourth American boy". It was also, rather ironically, opposed by the American Communists and far left on orders from Moscow. This is ironic because Russia would become one of the greatest beneficiaries of the program, along with China and the rest of the Allies.
It is interesting that the bill passed by Congress gave the President sole authority to decide to give war material to "any government whose defense the President deems vital to the defense of the United States." This gave the Executive Branch more power, at the expense of Congress, than it had ever had before, and it would set the stage for American presidents taking the powers of war away from Congress.
Eventually, Lend-Lease would take 14 cents out of every dollar spent by the government during the war years. The total cost was roughly in excess of 50 billion, making it one of the most expensive government programs anywhere. But it transformed the nation. Overnight, small shipyards and factories which had been stagnant since the start of the Depression were given government contracts. Unemployment, which was still around 8 million even in 1940, now became a thing of the past. Yet FDR faced a new problem- how to give the stuff to England without seeing it sunk to the bottom of the sea by the U-Boats? The obvious answer was for American ships to convoy. Yet, isolationists argued that if we did that, it would be tantamount to war just as it was in 1917. FDR hesistated, and for the time being would not commit himself to convoys.
A month after Roosevelt's re-election, he received a letter from Winston Churchill. Churchill later termed it "the most important letter I have written in my life." In this letter, Churchill basically laid out England's financial problems. He told FDR that England could no longer afford to pay for the war materials they need, and that the U-Boats were strangling their ability to deliver them. Churchill concluded:
If, as I believe, you are convinced, Mr. President, that the defeat of the Nazi and Fascist tyranny is a matter of high consequence tot the people of the United States and to the Western Hemisphere, you will regard this letter not as an appeal for aid, but as a statement of the minimum action necessary to achieve our common purpose.
Roosevelt pondered the letter for a week, and then came up with Lend-Lease, according to history all by himself. As he explained it to the American public in a Fireside Chat (radio broadcast):
Suppose my neighbor's house catches on fire and I have a length of garden hose four or five hundred feet away. If he can take my garden hose and connect it to his hydrant, I may help him put out the fire. Now, I don't say to him before that transaction, "Neighbor, my hose cost me fifteen dollars; you have to pay me fifteen dollars for it." No! I don't want fifteen dollars- I want my garden hose back after the fire is over.
This is brilliant propaganda but of course it was completely absurd. First off, if your neighbor is having a fire, you don't just hand him your water hose and then stand there and watch him try to put out the fire, you help him do it. Second, weapons, tanks, and airplanes are not water hoses. Finally, and most important, of course you're not going to get the equipment back. In fact, FDR was not proposing to lend or lease anything; he was proposing a complete giveaway. There was never any expectation of returned items or payment. In this sense, Lend-Lease was a fraud.
Lend-Lease was a brilliant idea, and it probably saved the world. It was, in my humble opinion, FDR's greatest achievement, far greater than his domestic accomplishments of the previous decade, and even slightly greater than his stewardship of the war. It turned America into the world power we are today. It was not seen that way at the time by isolationists, who predicted that "Lend-Lease will plow under every fourth American boy". It was also, rather ironically, opposed by the American Communists and far left on orders from Moscow. This is ironic because Russia would become one of the greatest beneficiaries of the program, along with China and the rest of the Allies.
It is interesting that the bill passed by Congress gave the President sole authority to decide to give war material to "any government whose defense the President deems vital to the defense of the United States." This gave the Executive Branch more power, at the expense of Congress, than it had ever had before, and it would set the stage for American presidents taking the powers of war away from Congress.
Eventually, Lend-Lease would take 14 cents out of every dollar spent by the government during the war years. The total cost was roughly in excess of 50 billion, making it one of the most expensive government programs anywhere. But it transformed the nation. Overnight, small shipyards and factories which had been stagnant since the start of the Depression were given government contracts. Unemployment, which was still around 8 million even in 1940, now became a thing of the past. Yet FDR faced a new problem- how to give the stuff to England without seeing it sunk to the bottom of the sea by the U-Boats? The obvious answer was for American ships to convoy. Yet, isolationists argued that if we did that, it would be tantamount to war just as it was in 1917. FDR hesistated, and for the time being would not commit himself to convoys.
timschochet
Footballguy
Tommorow I will be gone almost all day. I won't be able to add any narratives most likely until tommorow night. See you all then!
Ozymandias
Footballguy
50 billion dollars may seem trivial in today's world. But if you just take inflation into account it was the equivalent of 600 billion dollars. A huge amount, given the fact that the USA had less than 50% of today's population.
timschochet
Footballguy
It really raises the disturbing fact that war is excellent for economic prosperity.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Tim, looks like you've fallen for that old saw."Such naive reactions to spending due to war and natural disasters are perfect examples of what the great French economist Frédéric Bastiat described as the broken-window fallacy. Bastiat asks his reader to imagine a delinquent boy throwing a rock through a store window, about which some presumptuous onlooker comments that it might indeed be good for the economy. The glazier will make money replacing the window, which he will use to buy bread from a baker, who in turn will buy a new pair of shoes.The economic activity will snowball and lead to greater general prosperity. (In modern times, Keynesian economics has favorably referred to this as “the multiplier effect.”) What this ignores, as Bastiat explains, is the unseen costs: what the storeowner could have done with that money had he not had to spend it on the glazier, but rather on something he would value higher had his window been left intact.With government spending, the same principles apply. Money seized from the private sector — from those who know how to make productive, profitable economic decisions — and transferred to government programs does indeed produce jobs, but to focus on this ignores what the wealth could have been used for had it not been forcibly transferred. As the humorist Dave Barry so succinctly put it,"See, when the government spends money, it creates jobs; whereas when the money is left in the hands of taxpayers, God only knows what they do with it. Bake it into pies, probably. Anything to avoid creating jobs."But let's not turn this into a political thread. It's about WW2.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Churchill's great error
(Turns out I'm around this morning and wanted to get this post in before I have to leave.)
Winston Churchill was a superb orator and a great prime minister who saved England's spirit. He was flawed, however, as a war strategist. In 1915 the British suffered a major defeat at Gallilopi. This was not Churchill's fault, but the whole project was probably unwise to begin with, and it had been his idea. I have already related how, during the German invasion of Norway, Churchill had impulsively divided the troops bound for the recapture and helped to doom the mission. Now, in January of 1941, he was about to make the same essential mistake on a much larger scale.
Churchill was excited at how the Greeks had easily defeated the Italians. This made him imagine that a Balkan front could be formed against Germany. Once again, as in the case of the Dardanelles, Churchill was looking for a peripheral way to assault Germany from a possible point of weakness. He really hadn't changed at all in 30 years, nor would he ever; as we shall see, he also would propose the Balkans as an alternative to invading France when the time came. Churchill called upon Metaxas and offered his aid in the form of British troops.
But the Greek dictator did not want British help. He was fearful (correctly as it turns out) that any British presence in Greece would force the Germans to rescue the Italian effort and invade. Metaxas knew that, as well as his soldiers had performed against Italy, they could not hope to hold out for long against the Nazis. However, Metaxas died unexpectedly at the end of January. Churchill pressed his aid upon his successor, and it was accepted. At once the order was given: 75% of Richard O' Connor's victorious armies in Libya and Egypt would be transhipped to Greece.
O'Connor protested, Wavell protested. Churchill did not listen. O'Connor reluctantly moved his headquarters back to Egypt. Churchill wasn't especially worried, however. He was aware that the Germans had sent some troops and armor to reinforce the Italians in Libya, but he calculated it would be months before they would try to attack. Before that time, he would find troops from elsewhere to reinforce Wavell. And anyhow, the new German commander taking over for the Italians was unknown, some low level general named Erwin Rommel. Surely he would be cautious and not realize the temporary British weakness. Churchill was quite positive North Africa was pretty much already won, thanks to O'Connor's brilliant victories. Nothing of consequence would occur there now.
This one decision by Churchill was his greatest strategic blunder. He managed to not only guarantee disaster in Greece, but also paved the way for two more years of struggle in North Africa.
(Turns out I'm around this morning and wanted to get this post in before I have to leave.)
Winston Churchill was a superb orator and a great prime minister who saved England's spirit. He was flawed, however, as a war strategist. In 1915 the British suffered a major defeat at Gallilopi. This was not Churchill's fault, but the whole project was probably unwise to begin with, and it had been his idea. I have already related how, during the German invasion of Norway, Churchill had impulsively divided the troops bound for the recapture and helped to doom the mission. Now, in January of 1941, he was about to make the same essential mistake on a much larger scale.
Churchill was excited at how the Greeks had easily defeated the Italians. This made him imagine that a Balkan front could be formed against Germany. Once again, as in the case of the Dardanelles, Churchill was looking for a peripheral way to assault Germany from a possible point of weakness. He really hadn't changed at all in 30 years, nor would he ever; as we shall see, he also would propose the Balkans as an alternative to invading France when the time came. Churchill called upon Metaxas and offered his aid in the form of British troops.
But the Greek dictator did not want British help. He was fearful (correctly as it turns out) that any British presence in Greece would force the Germans to rescue the Italian effort and invade. Metaxas knew that, as well as his soldiers had performed against Italy, they could not hope to hold out for long against the Nazis. However, Metaxas died unexpectedly at the end of January. Churchill pressed his aid upon his successor, and it was accepted. At once the order was given: 75% of Richard O' Connor's victorious armies in Libya and Egypt would be transhipped to Greece.
O'Connor protested, Wavell protested. Churchill did not listen. O'Connor reluctantly moved his headquarters back to Egypt. Churchill wasn't especially worried, however. He was aware that the Germans had sent some troops and armor to reinforce the Italians in Libya, but he calculated it would be months before they would try to attack. Before that time, he would find troops from elsewhere to reinforce Wavell. And anyhow, the new German commander taking over for the Italians was unknown, some low level general named Erwin Rommel. Surely he would be cautious and not realize the temporary British weakness. Churchill was quite positive North Africa was pretty much already won, thanks to O'Connor's brilliant victories. Nothing of consequence would occur there now.
This one decision by Churchill was his greatest strategic blunder. He managed to not only guarantee disaster in Greece, but also paved the way for two more years of struggle in North Africa.
Redwes25
Footballguy
Operation Barborossa - Prelude Germany
Anyone who has studied WWII and Hitler knows that Hitler’s ultimate goal was always to gain “Lebensraum,” which made war inevitable with Russia. The Wehrmacht in 1941 was at its height of its power and while they had set backs including the Battle of Britain such defeats had been minor compared to the vast swaths of territory they had captured.
As early as December 1940, Hitler had approved plans for the invasion of Russia to begin in May 1941 and amassed 152 German divisions, including 19 panzer and 15 motorized divisions for the invasion. Supporting these were about 30 divisions of Finland and Romania. The force consisted of approximately 3,300 tanks, 7,200 artillery pieces and 2,700 aircraft. It is of note that other than the panzer and motorized division the invading army would dependent on the horse and foot for transportation. The panzer and mechanized forces were divided into 4 panzer groups.
The German primary plan was focused on the Red Army rather than on specific terrain or political objectives such as Moscow. The hope was that the Red Army would collapse along with the Soviet government. To meet this end, German forces were divided into 3 Army groups (Army group North, Central and South). Army Group North would strike towards the Baltics with its ultimate goal being Leningrad; Army Group South would strike into the Ukraine seizing Keiv and then into the Russian Steppe and the oil rich resources Caucus.
The main thrust would be made by Army Group center which also held the two of the fourth 4 panzer groups - the 2nd (Guderian) and 3rd (Hoth). Guderian and Hoth’s initial thrusts would be to Minsk from two different jumping off points with the goal to encircle much of the Red Army massed at the border. After, encircling the Russians, they would drive on to Smolensk and then towards Moscow. The belief being that the Red Army would be crushed before Moscow and they could drive right in...
Link to general map of the plan - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Operatio...cted_border.png
Anyone who has studied WWII and Hitler knows that Hitler’s ultimate goal was always to gain “Lebensraum,” which made war inevitable with Russia. The Wehrmacht in 1941 was at its height of its power and while they had set backs including the Battle of Britain such defeats had been minor compared to the vast swaths of territory they had captured.
As early as December 1940, Hitler had approved plans for the invasion of Russia to begin in May 1941 and amassed 152 German divisions, including 19 panzer and 15 motorized divisions for the invasion. Supporting these were about 30 divisions of Finland and Romania. The force consisted of approximately 3,300 tanks, 7,200 artillery pieces and 2,700 aircraft. It is of note that other than the panzer and motorized division the invading army would dependent on the horse and foot for transportation. The panzer and mechanized forces were divided into 4 panzer groups.
The German primary plan was focused on the Red Army rather than on specific terrain or political objectives such as Moscow. The hope was that the Red Army would collapse along with the Soviet government. To meet this end, German forces were divided into 3 Army groups (Army group North, Central and South). Army Group North would strike towards the Baltics with its ultimate goal being Leningrad; Army Group South would strike into the Ukraine seizing Keiv and then into the Russian Steppe and the oil rich resources Caucus.
The main thrust would be made by Army Group center which also held the two of the fourth 4 panzer groups - the 2nd (Guderian) and 3rd (Hoth). Guderian and Hoth’s initial thrusts would be to Minsk from two different jumping off points with the goal to encircle much of the Red Army massed at the border. After, encircling the Russians, they would drive on to Smolensk and then towards Moscow. The belief being that the Red Army would be crushed before Moscow and they could drive right in...
Link to general map of the plan - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Operatio...cted_border.png
timschochet
Footballguy
Redwes, I'm going to let you handle the invasion of Russia in detail since you know so much about it. It's jumping slightly ahead of the timeline however. I've still got to cover, Rommel, Greece, Crete, Yugoslavia, the Battle of the Atlantic, the Bismarck, and Rudolph Hess: basically, the first 6 months of 1941 which are crowded with events. It's up to you if you want to jump forward, of course, but it might be better to wait until the timeline gets there...
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I'd imagine you're getting to it, but the encirclement strategy was important to understanding how brutal this front became. The Germans rule of engagement vs the Soviets stated that any man found behind enemy lines with a weapon was considered a "partisan" and would not be treated as a typical POW would be. This meant that once the encircling forces got past the enemy, the German army could slaughter russians that were attempting to surrender. As the campaign went on, the definition of "partisans" expanded and the battles got bloodier.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Yes, but..."With the Italian force in North Africa as good as neutralised, the British were faced with numerous crises all over the world. Singapore and Greece were about to be attacked and the location of the next German assault in the Middle East was unknown. When Winston Churchill decided to send forces to assist the Greeks in their defence against the German force about to attack, Sir Alan Brooke, the Home Forces Commander, noted that "our hands were more full at the time in the Middle East and Greece could only result in the most dangerous dispersal of force". Brooke was certainly proved right as the Eighth Army collapsed in disarray when Rommel attacked for the first time in March 1941, but in all fairness it has to be said that the troops were sent to Greece for sound political reasons; so as to show that the Allies would back anyone wishing to stand against the Nazi`s, not to mention that the German propaganda machine would have had a field day if the British had abandoned Greece."
Furthermore, it caused Hitler to divert forces from the Eastern Front, which is where his future was going to be decided. Yes, maybe it wouldn't have made any difference, but Hitler came close to succeeding. Who knows what difference a few more Panzer divisions might have made?
Overall, though, I agree with you. But things are never quite cut and dried in retrospect.
Redwes25
Footballguy
I will let the timeline play out for those other events which you can cover better then I before I start the actual battles. However, I think it makes sense to do those prelude posts now since the decision to invade Russia was made in the end of 1940 and much of the first six months of 1940 were also used to prep for the conflict by Germany so while we talk about Greece, North Africa, etc... people should realize that Germany was building a huge force to invade Russia and Russia was getting ready for the strike.Also, I don't think I can keep up with you so if I don't write this stuff now it will fall far behind.
ETA - Also imagine what North Africa looks like if they commit a portion of the troops they planned to us in Russia in North Africa so I think it makes sense to do these now. In the grand scheme of things the North Africa is a side-show that gets to much interest in the west.
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I don't want to turn this into a WWI debate, but you can't let Chrichill off the hook so easily regarding the Dardenelles Campaign and the Gallipoli landings. The idea was his, he forced it through the War Council and he persisted in sending men and material (mostly ANZAC troops (see the early Mel Gibson movie Gallipoli)) despite horrific losses and horrible conditions. When the campaign failed, he was forced to resign as First Lord of the Admiralty and had to leave the government. IIRC, he went to France to command a regiment as a way of doing penance for his blunders, but didn't see action or saw very little. But nevertheless, you can't brush this aside. His fixation with the Balkans and the "soft underbelly of Europe" would later bedevil FDR, Marshall and Ike in planning for Overlord. Churchill kept wanting other landings in the Balkans that would have siphoned off resources that should be going into Overlord or the Pacific.
RudiStein
*Not really a bail bondsman
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Well, yes you can. Yes, the campaign was a disaster, but Churchill kept pushing General Hamilton to go inland, and he kept waiting until he had more reinforcements. In the meantime, the Turks brought up more troops, and it became a meatgrinder. The geographical intelligence was faulty; it looked like just a few miles, but it was miles of wooded ridge after wooded ridge. But I think it is true that Churchill always felt that the campaign was a good idea, poorly executed. And he may have been looking for some vindication.
Copeman
Footballguy
Today is Wednesday, August 26, 2009
Today in
World War II History
1934 - Adolf Hitler demanded that France turn over their Saar region to Germany.
1945 - The Japanese were given surrender instructions on the U.S. battleship Missouri at the end of World War II.
1961 - All crossing points into East Germany were closed for West Berlin citizens.
Random World War II Quote
"Among the men who fought on Iwo Jima, uncommon valor was a common virtue."
Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz - March 16, 1945
Today in
World War II History
1934 - Adolf Hitler demanded that France turn over their Saar region to Germany.
1945 - The Japanese were given surrender instructions on the U.S. battleship Missouri at the end of World War II.
1961 - All crossing points into East Germany were closed for West Berlin citizens.
Random World War II Quote
"Among the men who fought on Iwo Jima, uncommon valor was a common virtue."
Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz - March 16, 1945
timschochet
Footballguy
Yugoslavia
In March of 1941, Adolf Hitler was attempting to complete the timetable for subduing the Balkans in order to prepare for the invasion of Russia. His intention, as Redwes had pointed out, was to invade Russia in May. Had he done so it is very possible the Wehrmacht would have reached Moscow in August and early September, rather than late September and October, at which point the Russians were aided by heavy snows. This might have altered history.
But Hitler wanted his flank subdued, and Yugoslavia was one of the last nations on his list. He wanted this small country to join the Tripartite Pact and become a Nazi satellite, and pressured the King until, on March 25, he submitted. The agreement was that Germany would respect the independence of Yugoslavia so long as the latter nation allowed German troops to pass through at any time.
This seemed like a generous deal to Hitler on his part, but the Yugoslavs reacted in anger by overthrowing their king. The government was arrested, and a regent, Prince Paul put in his place by a colonel named Simovic. There was joyous celebrating all through Belgrade. (This rebellion may have been aided by America's William Donavan and the OSS, predecessor to the CIA- he visited Belgrade the week before the uprising. However, the truth of this has never been revealed.) The new government was formed of a coalition of ALL the Yugoslav political parties- except those who dealt with Hitler in any way.
For Adolf Hitler this was the final straw. First Italy had created headaches for him in Greece and North Africa, and now this insolent little Balkan country was challenging his authority. Der Fuhrer made three momentous decisions: first, he sent increased Erwin Rommel's forces in North Africa, and instructed him to damage the British there. Second, he detailed an army of 500,000 men to attack Yugoslavia first, then Greece. And finally, as a result of these actions, he delayed the attack against Russia: now it would begin in June.
Wave after wave of German bombers flew into Belgrade with the intent to destroy it. Over 17,000 civilians were killed. Then 20 German divisions marched in. They attacked key spots like airfields, bridges, communications. Soon Yugoslavia was without electricity, radios or phones. The campaign was devised by Marshall List, and it was extremely well-executed. Germany lost very little men and conquered the country in 11 days.
An orgy of terror followed, as the SS moved in. Anyone suspected of having defied Germany in the uprising was taken out and shot publicly or hung from a lampost, sometimes along with their whole families, including women and children. Yugoslavia succumbed, and became a slave state for the New Order.
However, small groups of guerillas took flight into the hills and mountains, and these groups were constantly sniping at Nazi occupiers through the remainder of the war. One of the rebel leaders was a charismatic Communist named Tito. The Nazis attempted reprisals- they would shoot ten innocent people for every German soldier that was killed. However, this just made things bloodier. Yugoslavia eventually became one of the most bloody and difficult cogs in the German empire.
With Yugoslavia pacified, most of the soldiers moved on to Greece, where Churchill had detoured most of O'Connor's forces.
In March of 1941, Adolf Hitler was attempting to complete the timetable for subduing the Balkans in order to prepare for the invasion of Russia. His intention, as Redwes had pointed out, was to invade Russia in May. Had he done so it is very possible the Wehrmacht would have reached Moscow in August and early September, rather than late September and October, at which point the Russians were aided by heavy snows. This might have altered history.
But Hitler wanted his flank subdued, and Yugoslavia was one of the last nations on his list. He wanted this small country to join the Tripartite Pact and become a Nazi satellite, and pressured the King until, on March 25, he submitted. The agreement was that Germany would respect the independence of Yugoslavia so long as the latter nation allowed German troops to pass through at any time.
This seemed like a generous deal to Hitler on his part, but the Yugoslavs reacted in anger by overthrowing their king. The government was arrested, and a regent, Prince Paul put in his place by a colonel named Simovic. There was joyous celebrating all through Belgrade. (This rebellion may have been aided by America's William Donavan and the OSS, predecessor to the CIA- he visited Belgrade the week before the uprising. However, the truth of this has never been revealed.) The new government was formed of a coalition of ALL the Yugoslav political parties- except those who dealt with Hitler in any way.
For Adolf Hitler this was the final straw. First Italy had created headaches for him in Greece and North Africa, and now this insolent little Balkan country was challenging his authority. Der Fuhrer made three momentous decisions: first, he sent increased Erwin Rommel's forces in North Africa, and instructed him to damage the British there. Second, he detailed an army of 500,000 men to attack Yugoslavia first, then Greece. And finally, as a result of these actions, he delayed the attack against Russia: now it would begin in June.
Wave after wave of German bombers flew into Belgrade with the intent to destroy it. Over 17,000 civilians were killed. Then 20 German divisions marched in. They attacked key spots like airfields, bridges, communications. Soon Yugoslavia was without electricity, radios or phones. The campaign was devised by Marshall List, and it was extremely well-executed. Germany lost very little men and conquered the country in 11 days.
An orgy of terror followed, as the SS moved in. Anyone suspected of having defied Germany in the uprising was taken out and shot publicly or hung from a lampost, sometimes along with their whole families, including women and children. Yugoslavia succumbed, and became a slave state for the New Order.
However, small groups of guerillas took flight into the hills and mountains, and these groups were constantly sniping at Nazi occupiers through the remainder of the war. One of the rebel leaders was a charismatic Communist named Tito. The Nazis attempted reprisals- they would shoot ten innocent people for every German soldier that was killed. However, this just made things bloodier. Yugoslavia eventually became one of the most bloody and difficult cogs in the German empire.
With Yugoslavia pacified, most of the soldiers moved on to Greece, where Churchill had detoured most of O'Connor's forces.
timschochet
Footballguy
1941: Greece
56,000 Anzacs (Australian and New Zealand soldiers), the heart of O'Connor's elite troops, were on their way to Greece to try and combat a German army of half a million men. On March 27, they approached the Southern tip when the Italian navy attacked. The Royal Navy won a sea battle at night, destroying three Italian cruisers. British seamen boarding one of them, the Pola. were astonished at the incredible disarray on board. Empty bottles were everywhere, and Italian sailors, officers, and the captain wandered around in a drunken stupor. The Anzacs landed in Salonika.
And just as they landed the Germans arrived, having swarmed in from Yugoslavia. There were simply too many of them for the Anzacs to handle, and they were unable to retreat back into the sea. So they began a slow, miserable, bloody retreat to Athens. It rained all the while. Fleeing civilians clogged the roads, just as they had in France. For the British officers in fact, it was a repeat of the flight from Belgium all over again nearly a year later. The RAF was non existent, as the Germans had seized all the airfields.
The Greek government took flight for London, and the Anzacs were evacuated from the beaches near Athens in a sort of mini Dunkirk. 13,000 had been killed or captured on the retreat. Half of the survivors returned to Egypt. The other 23,000 were sent to the Island of Crete, which turned out to be the next German objective.
56,000 Anzacs (Australian and New Zealand soldiers), the heart of O'Connor's elite troops, were on their way to Greece to try and combat a German army of half a million men. On March 27, they approached the Southern tip when the Italian navy attacked. The Royal Navy won a sea battle at night, destroying three Italian cruisers. British seamen boarding one of them, the Pola. were astonished at the incredible disarray on board. Empty bottles were everywhere, and Italian sailors, officers, and the captain wandered around in a drunken stupor. The Anzacs landed in Salonika.
And just as they landed the Germans arrived, having swarmed in from Yugoslavia. There were simply too many of them for the Anzacs to handle, and they were unable to retreat back into the sea. So they began a slow, miserable, bloody retreat to Athens. It rained all the while. Fleeing civilians clogged the roads, just as they had in France. For the British officers in fact, it was a repeat of the flight from Belgium all over again nearly a year later. The RAF was non existent, as the Germans had seized all the airfields.
The Greek government took flight for London, and the Anzacs were evacuated from the beaches near Athens in a sort of mini Dunkirk. 13,000 had been killed or captured on the retreat. Half of the survivors returned to Egypt. The other 23,000 were sent to the Island of Crete, which turned out to be the next German objective.
Redwes25
Footballguy
Operation Barborossa - Prelude Russia
The Soviet Union had not spent the time between the Winter War resting on its laurels and Stalin knew that war with Germany would eventual come but as for exact timing events would show that Soviet leadership was clueless as to timing. Stalin believed that Hitler would not attack just two years after the signing of the non-aggression pact and with Great Britain still in the war. Even so the Soviet Union would develop a complex defensive plan based on layered defenses but it would not entirely be in place at the start of the conflict. The Soviet Union would also try to reform the military based on merit but the damage of the purges had already been done.
Soviet planning called for arraying 171 divisions in three successive echelons. The first being a light covering force of 57 infantry divisions (hard to describe 57 divisions as light but in the scheme it was given its equipment and quality of units). The second two echelons would consist of 52 and 62 rifle divisions with 20 mechanized corps which was the bulk of the Russian armor in European Russia. Finally, a reserve front was to be behind the Dvina and Dneiper rivers which would consist of five additional field armies. If you are not aware of Russian geography these armies would be formed behind Minsk and German intelligence at the start was not aware of these forces. It is of note that the Soviet’s attempted to deceive Germany and indicate more units were near the borders then actually were. This was Stalin’s attempt to prevent a war with Germany and make Russia look stronger but the end result was the German’s believed almost all Russian forces were on the border.
Unfortunately, these defensive plans would not entirely be in place at the start of the conflict and the reserve front and portions forward elements farther from the border would not be fully pre-pared when the invasion began in late June.
The Soviet Union had not spent the time between the Winter War resting on its laurels and Stalin knew that war with Germany would eventual come but as for exact timing events would show that Soviet leadership was clueless as to timing. Stalin believed that Hitler would not attack just two years after the signing of the non-aggression pact and with Great Britain still in the war. Even so the Soviet Union would develop a complex defensive plan based on layered defenses but it would not entirely be in place at the start of the conflict. The Soviet Union would also try to reform the military based on merit but the damage of the purges had already been done.
Soviet planning called for arraying 171 divisions in three successive echelons. The first being a light covering force of 57 infantry divisions (hard to describe 57 divisions as light but in the scheme it was given its equipment and quality of units). The second two echelons would consist of 52 and 62 rifle divisions with 20 mechanized corps which was the bulk of the Russian armor in European Russia. Finally, a reserve front was to be behind the Dvina and Dneiper rivers which would consist of five additional field armies. If you are not aware of Russian geography these armies would be formed behind Minsk and German intelligence at the start was not aware of these forces. It is of note that the Soviet’s attempted to deceive Germany and indicate more units were near the borders then actually were. This was Stalin’s attempt to prevent a war with Germany and make Russia look stronger but the end result was the German’s believed almost all Russian forces were on the border.
Unfortunately, these defensive plans would not entirely be in place at the start of the conflict and the reserve front and portions forward elements farther from the border would not be fully pre-pared when the invasion began in late June.
timschochet
Footballguy
Crete
If Germany could seize the island of Crete, the Luftwaffe could defend Greece and strike at British shipping attempting to supply Libya and Egypt. Aware of this, Churchill had placed Victoria Cross holder Major General Sir Bernard Freyberg of New Zealand in overall command, one of the most highly decorated offficers in the entire British army. He had about 27,000 British and Anzac troops (most of these having fled from Greece) along with two Greek divisions. He had fine antiarcraft guns, but less tha a dozen tanks. Freyburg did not not believe the Germans could assault Crete from the sea, and of course an airborne assault would be unlikely. He assured Churchill the island was well-defended.
In Berlin, General Karl Student, the paratroop commander who had served Germany so well in Belgium, now convinced Hitler that he could take Crete from the air. Hitler was doubtful, but finally gave the Student the go-ahead once the Greeks had surrendered. Student was given a force of 3,500 paratroops for the attack. Most of these were killed. The Anzac and Greek soldiers took a fearful toll, while some fell into the sea and drowned. Others, dangling helplessly from trees, were picked off by sharpshooters. Despite losses of over 70%, the paratroops managed to capture an airfield. Once this was done, the battle was effectively won, because Freyberg could not stop the Luftwaffe. Once again the British troops were forced backwards. Once again they were forced to evacuate from Crete, just like Dunkirk, just like Athens. This time too, the Royal Navy was scourged by the Luftwaffe, losing three cruisers, six destroyers, and 29 smaller vessels. In Athens, the Greeks were ordered to lower the Greek flag from the Acropolis, and replace it with a Swastika. A lone Greek soldier obeyed; then he wrapped himself in the flag of his homeland and deliberately fell to his death.
In England, the population was stunned. Here was yet another defeat, after Greece, and at the same time as Libya (I will get to that shortly.) May of 1941 seemed worse than May of 1940. The Nazis appeared invunerable, victorious everywhere. But Germany had suffered a terrible price taking Crete: over 17,000 casualties, and the destruction of the German paratroopers. Karl Student's men would no longer be a force in the war.
If Germany could seize the island of Crete, the Luftwaffe could defend Greece and strike at British shipping attempting to supply Libya and Egypt. Aware of this, Churchill had placed Victoria Cross holder Major General Sir Bernard Freyberg of New Zealand in overall command, one of the most highly decorated offficers in the entire British army. He had about 27,000 British and Anzac troops (most of these having fled from Greece) along with two Greek divisions. He had fine antiarcraft guns, but less tha a dozen tanks. Freyburg did not not believe the Germans could assault Crete from the sea, and of course an airborne assault would be unlikely. He assured Churchill the island was well-defended.
In Berlin, General Karl Student, the paratroop commander who had served Germany so well in Belgium, now convinced Hitler that he could take Crete from the air. Hitler was doubtful, but finally gave the Student the go-ahead once the Greeks had surrendered. Student was given a force of 3,500 paratroops for the attack. Most of these were killed. The Anzac and Greek soldiers took a fearful toll, while some fell into the sea and drowned. Others, dangling helplessly from trees, were picked off by sharpshooters. Despite losses of over 70%, the paratroops managed to capture an airfield. Once this was done, the battle was effectively won, because Freyberg could not stop the Luftwaffe. Once again the British troops were forced backwards. Once again they were forced to evacuate from Crete, just like Dunkirk, just like Athens. This time too, the Royal Navy was scourged by the Luftwaffe, losing three cruisers, six destroyers, and 29 smaller vessels. In Athens, the Greeks were ordered to lower the Greek flag from the Acropolis, and replace it with a Swastika. A lone Greek soldier obeyed; then he wrapped himself in the flag of his homeland and deliberately fell to his death.
In England, the population was stunned. Here was yet another defeat, after Greece, and at the same time as Libya (I will get to that shortly.) May of 1941 seemed worse than May of 1940. The Nazis appeared invunerable, victorious everywhere. But Germany had suffered a terrible price taking Crete: over 17,000 casualties, and the destruction of the German paratroopers. Karl Student's men would no longer be a force in the war.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Like I said above, those little "adventures" of Churchill's may have caused Hitler to overreach instead of concentrating on his primary target.
timschochet
Footballguy
The Bismarck
Around the same time as Crete, one of the most interesting naval battles in history occurred. The Germans were finally ready to unleash their great battleship Bismarck. This was the largest battleship in the world, weighing over 50,000 tons. It first set sail on May 19, 1941, along with the Prinz Eugen, a heavy cruiser. Their purpose was to intercept and destroy British convoys bringing supplies from America.
The ships attempted to break out into the Atlantic, but the British were aware of them thanks to Ultra and the breaking of the Enigma codes. A Swedish seaplane first sighted the ships and radioed the British Admiralty, who then sent a Spitfire recon plane to take photos. It was decided to intercept them at the entrance to the Artic, the Denmark Strait.
On the morning of May 24, the two German ships ran into two British battleships that were the pride of the Royal Navy, the new Prince of Wales and the Hood, commanded by Admiral Holland R.N. (The Bismarck was commanded by Captain Lindemann, under the overall command of Admiral Lutjens (aboard the Prinz Eugenz).
I have not relied at all on Wikipedia for this thread, but I'm going to make my first exception for a description of this battle. My excuse is I'm simply not good enough of a naval expert to try to set this down in my own words without missing too much of what's important. I don't promise not to do this again, though I will try not to rely on Wiki very often. Here is what happened:
At 05:49 Holland ordered fire to be concentrated on the leading German ship, Prinz Eugen, believing it to be Bismarck. Fortunately for the British, the captain of Prince of Wales was soon to realise the error and changed his target. Holland amended his order on the correct ship to be engaged but this did not reach Hood's gunnery control before the first salvo. Hood fired the first shots of the battle at 05:52, in daylight, followed very soon afterwards by Prince of Wales. The range to the German ships was c. 12.5 miles (20.1 km). The first salvo from Hood landed close to Prinz Eugen, causing minor shell splinter damage near the aft turrets.
More than two minutes went by without a reply from the German ships, before Captain Lindemann ordered fire to be returned on the lead British ship. This was Hood, which the Germans had identified only when the British squadron made a turn towards them at 05:55. This manoeuvre was undertaken, it appears, in an attempt to place themselves in the "zone of immunity", an area inside which both plunging fire, in particular, and direct enemy fire is relatively ineffective. Closer in, Hood would be less vulnerable and the advantage of superior German gunnery control would be lessened. The disadvantage was that, during the dash, eight of the eighteen British heavy guns could not be brought to bear.
Both Bismarck and Prinz Eugen opened fire on Hood, at a range of 11 miles (18 km). The early gunfire from the German ships was very accurate and within two minutes Hood had been hit by at least one 8-inch shell from Prinz Eugen. It struck the British ship near the mainmast and caused a large fire which Hood's crew tried to bring under control. Prinz Eugen hit Hood three times during the engagement. However, Bismarck had also been hit by Prince of Wales, causing a fuel leak from the forward tanks; therefore Lütjens ordered his cruiser to switch its guns towards Prince of Wales, which his own secondary guns were now targeting. Bismarck survivor Baron Burkard von Müllenheim-Rechberg initially claimed that the hits on his ship were scored by Hood with her third salvo. However, it is equally likely that these hits were scored by Prince of Wales, as it is clear that Hood was targeting Prinz Eugen for the majority of the battle and that the order to change target to Bismarck saw most of her salvoes fall between the enemy ships, hitting neither. At 05:54 the range was down to 22,000 yards (20 km), at 05:57 it was down to just 19,000 yards (17 km). Bismarck then fired a fourth salvo which was slightly long and astern of Hood. At the same time Holland had ordered "2 Blue", a 20-degree turn to port. Before the ship began a turn to port Hood fired a fifth salvo at 05:59:30.
At 06:00 Hood, which was in the process of turning to port to bring her full weight of armament to bear on Bismarck, was hit amidships by at least one shell from Bismarck's fifth salvo at a distance of under nine miles (16,500 yards). Very shortly afterwards observers on both sides saw a huge jet of flame race skywards, followed by a rumbling explosion that split the huge ship in two. Splinters rained down on Prince of Wales, 400 yards (370 m) away. Hood's stern rose and sank shortly before the bow, all within three minutes. Admiral Holland and 1,415 crewmen went down with the ship. Only three men (Ted Briggs, Bob Tilburn, and Bill Dundas) survived. They were rescued about two and a half hours later by the destroyer Electra. The British Admiralty later concluded that the most likely explanation for the loss of Hood was a penetration of her magazines by a single 15-inch shell from Bismarck, causing the subsequent catastrophic explosion. Recent research by submersible craft suggests that the initial explosion could have been in the aft 4-inch magazine, followed by the aft 15″ magazine and that it may also have spread to the forward 15-inch magazines via the starboard side ammunition passage.
Prince of Wales had to turn towards the German fleet to avoid hitting the wreckage left by the flagship and was hit a number of times by gunfire from both German ships. Still, her own gunfire had caused damage to Bismarck. The British battleship turned away, laying smoke, her aft turret firing briefly under local control. She had received seven hits (three of them from Prinz Eugen) and mechanical failures had caused intermittent problems with her main guns and her aft turret jammed as she turned away.
At 06:03 Prinz Eugen, which at that point had fired 183 20.3 cm shells, reported propeller noises to starboard, bearing 279° and 220°. Bismarck and Prinz Eugen were forced into emergency manoeuvres and sighted a Sunderland flying-boat shortly afterwards.[20] Although Captain Lindemann wanted to chase Prince of Wales and "finish her off", Admiral Lütjens ignored his suggestions since delay risked the possibility of encountering other heavy enemy ships. In a battle lasting less than 20 minutes Bismarck and her consort had seen one enemy capital ship destroyed and another withdraw, an action almost unknown in the Royal Navy.
Despite the jubilation onboard Bismarck, the battleship was not safe. The British knew her position, her forward radar was out of action and she had received three hits, one of which caused water to leak into and contaminate fuel oil in storage. From then on, Bismarck had to reduce speed to a maximum of 20 knots (37 km/h) to conserve fuel. Lütjens eventually decided that he would have to head for the French coast (the dry-dock in Saint-Nazaire) for repairs, while ordering Prinz Eugen to continue commerce raiding alone. The British continued to shadow her, Prince of Wales having rendezvoused with Norfolk and Suffolk. To enable his consort to escape, Lütjens turned on his pursuers and forced them to turn away, thus allowing Prinz Eugen to steam on out of British radar range. The plan was to be executed on the signal "Hood". Lütjens first attempt failed. However at 18:14 a second attempt succeeded, the two German ships parted and Bismarck signalled "Good hunting"
Determined to avenge the sinking of Hood, the British committed every possible unit to hunt down Bismarck. During the early evening of 24 May an attack was made by a small group of Swordfish biplane torpedo bombers from 825 Naval Air Squadron of the aircraft carrier Victorious. One hit was scored resulting in a single fatality (Bismarck's first); however, the blast caused only superficial damage to Bismarck's armoured belt.
The effect of the attack reopened the Bismarck's earlier "wounds". The collision mats which had been used to block further flooding in the bow region had come loose due to constant jarring from evasive action and the firing of the anti-aircraft guns. The packing of the damaged bulkheads was also loosened leading to the complete forward flooding of the forward port boiler room, which was abandoned. This caused the bow to go down further, Lütjens thus ordered speed to be reduced to 16 knots (30 km/h) while the mats were repaired.
For some time Bismarck remained under long-distance observation by the British. At about 03:00 on 25 May, the ship took advantage of her opponents' zig-zagging and performed an almost three-quarter clockwise turn behind her pursuers to escape towards the east and then south-east. Contact was lost for four hours; however, perhaps in awe of British radar capabilities, it appears that the Germans did not realise their good fortune. Lütjens, for reasons that are unclear but possibly believing that Bismarck was still being tracked (despite a communication sent by Group West telling him the opposite), transmitted a half-hour radio message to HQ, which was intercepted thereby giving the British time to work out roughly where he was heading. However, a plotting error made onboard King George V, now in pursuit of the Germans, incorrectly calculated Bismarck's position and caused the chase to veer too far north. Bismarck was therefore able to make good time on 25/26 May in her unhindered passage towards France and protective air cover and destroyer escort. By now, though, fuel was becoming a major concern to both sides.
The British had a stroke of luck on 26 May. In mid-morning a Royal Air Force Coastal Command Catalina reconnaissance aircraft from 209 Squadron, which had flown over the Atlantic from its base on Lough Erne in Northern Ireland across Donegal through a small air-corridor secretly provided by the Éire government, spotted Bismarck (via her oil slick) and reported her position to the Admiralty. From then on, the German ship's position was known to the British, although the enemy would have to be slowed significantly if heavy units hoped to engage it out of range of German aircraft protection. All British hopes were now pinned on Force H, whose main units were the aircraft-carrier Ark Royal, the battlecruiser Renown and the cruiser Sheffield. This battle-group, commanded by Admiral James Somerville, had been diverted north from Gibraltar.
In atrocious weather conditions at 19:25 that evening, Ark Royal launched its Fairey Swordfish for another attack. The first wave mistakenly targeted the Sheffield that was by now shadowing the quarry. Although precious time was lost by this incident, it proved beneficial to the British in that the magnetic detonators on the torpedoes used against Sheffield were seen to be defective and for the following attack on Bismarck were replaced by those designed to explode on contact. In a final attack, almost in darkness at 21:05, a hit by a single torpedo from a Swordfish of 818 NAS (piloted by Sub-Lieutenant John Moffat) jammed Bismarck's rudder and steering gear. This rendered Bismarck virtually unmanoeuvrable, increased her list to port and she was able only to steam in a large circle in the general direction of King George V and Rodney, two frontline battleships that had been in pursuit from the west. After extensive efforts to free the jammed rudders, the fleet command finally acknowledged their, by now, impossible position in several messages to naval headquarters. Lütjens promised that the ship would fight until the last shell was spent. The cost to the attacking British had been five Swordfish damaged, one beyond repair.
Throughout the night of 26/27 May, Bismarck was the target of incessant torpedo attacks by the Tribal-class destroyers Cossack, Sikh, Maori and Zulu, with the Polish Piorun. Bismarck inflicted some damage to the British destroyers. Aboard Zulu a sub-lieutenant in the gunnery control tower lost a hand to shell splinters when a shell landed on the destroyer's forecastle, but did not explode. Cossack had its radio antenna sheared off by a shell. The constant harrying tactics of the British helped wear down the morale of the Germans and deepened the fatigue of an already exhausted crew.
Both Ark Royal and Renown had a lucky escape during the night. The British ships were unaware they had come within firing range of Kapitänleutnant Herbert Wohlfarth's U-556 submarine, which had earlier exercised with Bismarck in the Baltic, with Bismarck being referred to as the submarine's "big brother". However, U-556 was returning from a combat patrol and had spent its torpedoes. U-556 continued to shadow the British forces, reporting their position and guiding other U-boats to the area.
Around 08:00 on 27 May, Rodney and King George V closed to within 21 nautical miles (39 km) of Bismarck, with their enemy well illuminated by the morning sun in the background. At this point visibility was only 10 nautical miles (19 km) and the sea state at 4-5. High winds were blowing in 320 degrees from the North West at a force of 6-7. Rodney steered to the north so that her gunfire would work the length of Bismarck, while King George V took the side. They opened fire at 08:47. Bismarck returned fire, but her inability to steer and her list to port affected accuracy. Her low speed of seven knots made her an easy target, and she was soon hit several times, with heavy cruisers Norfolk and Dorsetshire adding their firepower. At 09:02 an 8-inch (200 mm) shell from Norfolk hit the main gun director, killing the gunnery officer, Adalbert Schneider, who had been awarded the Knight's Cross in the early hours of the same morning for his part in sinking Hood. At 09:08 a heavy shell from Rodney hit both of Bismarck's forward turrets, Anton and Bruno, disabling the latter; this was followed by another salvo which destroyed the forward control post, killing most of the senior officers.The aft turrets, Caesar and Dora, continued to fire locally. At 09:21 Dora was knocked out. The crew of Anton managed to fire one last salvo at 09:27. At 09:31 Caesar fired its last salvo and was then knocked out. This salvo straddled Rodney jamming the ship's torpedo tubes. Bismarck's salvoes throughout the battle were directed at Rodney, the older ship (perhaps in the hope of achieving a success similar to Hood). When Admiral Guernsey observed this, he remarked: "Thank heavens she's shooting at Rodney".The closest Bismarck came to threatening King George V was when von Müllenheim, under local fire control, zeroed in on the enemy but had his director blown away by a direct hit before fire could be directed at the British battleship.
Within 44 minutes, Bismarck's heavy guns were all silent. Rodney now closed to point-blank range (approximately three km) to pound the superstructure, while King George V fired from further out.
With no sign of surrender, despite the unequal struggle, the British were loath to leave Bismarck. Their fuel and shell supplies were low, a demonstration of how difficult it was for a battleship to sink a similar unit, even in an unbalanced engagement. However, when it became obvious that their enemy could not reach port, Rodney, King George V and the destroyers were sent home. Norfolk had no torpedoes left, so Dorsetshire launched three 21-inch (533 mm) torpedoes, which may have hit Bismarck at comparatively short range. The battleship's upper works were almost completely destroyed but her engines were still functioning, although Johannes "Hans" Zimmermann, a boiler room stoker who survived, confirms that salt water had entered the boiler feed lines causing the engineers to reduce speed to seven knots, fearing an explosion,and the hull appeared to be relatively sound; therefore, rather than risk her being captured, survivors have said the order to scuttle and then abandon ship was given. Many of the crew went into the water, but few sailors from the lower engine spaces survived. As Captain Lindemann was presumed killed with all officers after the bridge was hit by a 16-inch (410 mm) shell, it is unclear whether he could have given the order to scuttle. Some of the survivors, though, strongly maintain they saw him going down alive with his ship.
Bismarck slipped below the waves stern first at 10:39 that morning. Unaware of the fate of the ship, Group West, the German command base, continued to issue signals to Bismarck for some hours, until Reuters reported news from Britain that the ship had been sunk. In Britain, the House of Commons was informed of the sinking early that afternoon.
Dorsetshire and Maori stopped to rescue survivors, but a U-boat alarm caused them to leave the scene after rescuing only 110 Bismarck sailors, abandoning the surviving crew in the water. The next morning U-74, which had heard sinking noises from a distance, and the German weather ship Sachsenwald picked up 5 survivors. In all, 1,995 of the ship's crew of 2,200 died.
After the sinking John Tovey wrote in his memoirs, "The Bismarck had put up a most gallant fight against impossible odds, worthy of the old days of the Imperial German Navy, and she went down with her colours flying". The admiral had wanted to say this publicly but the Admiralty informed him: "For political reasons it is essential that nothing of the nature of the sentiments expressed by you should be given publicity, however much we admire a gallant fight".
Around the same time as Crete, one of the most interesting naval battles in history occurred. The Germans were finally ready to unleash their great battleship Bismarck. This was the largest battleship in the world, weighing over 50,000 tons. It first set sail on May 19, 1941, along with the Prinz Eugen, a heavy cruiser. Their purpose was to intercept and destroy British convoys bringing supplies from America.
The ships attempted to break out into the Atlantic, but the British were aware of them thanks to Ultra and the breaking of the Enigma codes. A Swedish seaplane first sighted the ships and radioed the British Admiralty, who then sent a Spitfire recon plane to take photos. It was decided to intercept them at the entrance to the Artic, the Denmark Strait.
On the morning of May 24, the two German ships ran into two British battleships that were the pride of the Royal Navy, the new Prince of Wales and the Hood, commanded by Admiral Holland R.N. (The Bismarck was commanded by Captain Lindemann, under the overall command of Admiral Lutjens (aboard the Prinz Eugenz).
I have not relied at all on Wikipedia for this thread, but I'm going to make my first exception for a description of this battle. My excuse is I'm simply not good enough of a naval expert to try to set this down in my own words without missing too much of what's important. I don't promise not to do this again, though I will try not to rely on Wiki very often. Here is what happened:
At 05:49 Holland ordered fire to be concentrated on the leading German ship, Prinz Eugen, believing it to be Bismarck. Fortunately for the British, the captain of Prince of Wales was soon to realise the error and changed his target. Holland amended his order on the correct ship to be engaged but this did not reach Hood's gunnery control before the first salvo. Hood fired the first shots of the battle at 05:52, in daylight, followed very soon afterwards by Prince of Wales. The range to the German ships was c. 12.5 miles (20.1 km). The first salvo from Hood landed close to Prinz Eugen, causing minor shell splinter damage near the aft turrets.
More than two minutes went by without a reply from the German ships, before Captain Lindemann ordered fire to be returned on the lead British ship. This was Hood, which the Germans had identified only when the British squadron made a turn towards them at 05:55. This manoeuvre was undertaken, it appears, in an attempt to place themselves in the "zone of immunity", an area inside which both plunging fire, in particular, and direct enemy fire is relatively ineffective. Closer in, Hood would be less vulnerable and the advantage of superior German gunnery control would be lessened. The disadvantage was that, during the dash, eight of the eighteen British heavy guns could not be brought to bear.
Both Bismarck and Prinz Eugen opened fire on Hood, at a range of 11 miles (18 km). The early gunfire from the German ships was very accurate and within two minutes Hood had been hit by at least one 8-inch shell from Prinz Eugen. It struck the British ship near the mainmast and caused a large fire which Hood's crew tried to bring under control. Prinz Eugen hit Hood three times during the engagement. However, Bismarck had also been hit by Prince of Wales, causing a fuel leak from the forward tanks; therefore Lütjens ordered his cruiser to switch its guns towards Prince of Wales, which his own secondary guns were now targeting. Bismarck survivor Baron Burkard von Müllenheim-Rechberg initially claimed that the hits on his ship were scored by Hood with her third salvo. However, it is equally likely that these hits were scored by Prince of Wales, as it is clear that Hood was targeting Prinz Eugen for the majority of the battle and that the order to change target to Bismarck saw most of her salvoes fall between the enemy ships, hitting neither. At 05:54 the range was down to 22,000 yards (20 km), at 05:57 it was down to just 19,000 yards (17 km). Bismarck then fired a fourth salvo which was slightly long and astern of Hood. At the same time Holland had ordered "2 Blue", a 20-degree turn to port. Before the ship began a turn to port Hood fired a fifth salvo at 05:59:30.
At 06:00 Hood, which was in the process of turning to port to bring her full weight of armament to bear on Bismarck, was hit amidships by at least one shell from Bismarck's fifth salvo at a distance of under nine miles (16,500 yards). Very shortly afterwards observers on both sides saw a huge jet of flame race skywards, followed by a rumbling explosion that split the huge ship in two. Splinters rained down on Prince of Wales, 400 yards (370 m) away. Hood's stern rose and sank shortly before the bow, all within three minutes. Admiral Holland and 1,415 crewmen went down with the ship. Only three men (Ted Briggs, Bob Tilburn, and Bill Dundas) survived. They were rescued about two and a half hours later by the destroyer Electra. The British Admiralty later concluded that the most likely explanation for the loss of Hood was a penetration of her magazines by a single 15-inch shell from Bismarck, causing the subsequent catastrophic explosion. Recent research by submersible craft suggests that the initial explosion could have been in the aft 4-inch magazine, followed by the aft 15″ magazine and that it may also have spread to the forward 15-inch magazines via the starboard side ammunition passage.
Prince of Wales had to turn towards the German fleet to avoid hitting the wreckage left by the flagship and was hit a number of times by gunfire from both German ships. Still, her own gunfire had caused damage to Bismarck. The British battleship turned away, laying smoke, her aft turret firing briefly under local control. She had received seven hits (three of them from Prinz Eugen) and mechanical failures had caused intermittent problems with her main guns and her aft turret jammed as she turned away.
At 06:03 Prinz Eugen, which at that point had fired 183 20.3 cm shells, reported propeller noises to starboard, bearing 279° and 220°. Bismarck and Prinz Eugen were forced into emergency manoeuvres and sighted a Sunderland flying-boat shortly afterwards.[20] Although Captain Lindemann wanted to chase Prince of Wales and "finish her off", Admiral Lütjens ignored his suggestions since delay risked the possibility of encountering other heavy enemy ships. In a battle lasting less than 20 minutes Bismarck and her consort had seen one enemy capital ship destroyed and another withdraw, an action almost unknown in the Royal Navy.
Despite the jubilation onboard Bismarck, the battleship was not safe. The British knew her position, her forward radar was out of action and she had received three hits, one of which caused water to leak into and contaminate fuel oil in storage. From then on, Bismarck had to reduce speed to a maximum of 20 knots (37 km/h) to conserve fuel. Lütjens eventually decided that he would have to head for the French coast (the dry-dock in Saint-Nazaire) for repairs, while ordering Prinz Eugen to continue commerce raiding alone. The British continued to shadow her, Prince of Wales having rendezvoused with Norfolk and Suffolk. To enable his consort to escape, Lütjens turned on his pursuers and forced them to turn away, thus allowing Prinz Eugen to steam on out of British radar range. The plan was to be executed on the signal "Hood". Lütjens first attempt failed. However at 18:14 a second attempt succeeded, the two German ships parted and Bismarck signalled "Good hunting"
Determined to avenge the sinking of Hood, the British committed every possible unit to hunt down Bismarck. During the early evening of 24 May an attack was made by a small group of Swordfish biplane torpedo bombers from 825 Naval Air Squadron of the aircraft carrier Victorious. One hit was scored resulting in a single fatality (Bismarck's first); however, the blast caused only superficial damage to Bismarck's armoured belt.
The effect of the attack reopened the Bismarck's earlier "wounds". The collision mats which had been used to block further flooding in the bow region had come loose due to constant jarring from evasive action and the firing of the anti-aircraft guns. The packing of the damaged bulkheads was also loosened leading to the complete forward flooding of the forward port boiler room, which was abandoned. This caused the bow to go down further, Lütjens thus ordered speed to be reduced to 16 knots (30 km/h) while the mats were repaired.
For some time Bismarck remained under long-distance observation by the British. At about 03:00 on 25 May, the ship took advantage of her opponents' zig-zagging and performed an almost three-quarter clockwise turn behind her pursuers to escape towards the east and then south-east. Contact was lost for four hours; however, perhaps in awe of British radar capabilities, it appears that the Germans did not realise their good fortune. Lütjens, for reasons that are unclear but possibly believing that Bismarck was still being tracked (despite a communication sent by Group West telling him the opposite), transmitted a half-hour radio message to HQ, which was intercepted thereby giving the British time to work out roughly where he was heading. However, a plotting error made onboard King George V, now in pursuit of the Germans, incorrectly calculated Bismarck's position and caused the chase to veer too far north. Bismarck was therefore able to make good time on 25/26 May in her unhindered passage towards France and protective air cover and destroyer escort. By now, though, fuel was becoming a major concern to both sides.
The British had a stroke of luck on 26 May. In mid-morning a Royal Air Force Coastal Command Catalina reconnaissance aircraft from 209 Squadron, which had flown over the Atlantic from its base on Lough Erne in Northern Ireland across Donegal through a small air-corridor secretly provided by the Éire government, spotted Bismarck (via her oil slick) and reported her position to the Admiralty. From then on, the German ship's position was known to the British, although the enemy would have to be slowed significantly if heavy units hoped to engage it out of range of German aircraft protection. All British hopes were now pinned on Force H, whose main units were the aircraft-carrier Ark Royal, the battlecruiser Renown and the cruiser Sheffield. This battle-group, commanded by Admiral James Somerville, had been diverted north from Gibraltar.
In atrocious weather conditions at 19:25 that evening, Ark Royal launched its Fairey Swordfish for another attack. The first wave mistakenly targeted the Sheffield that was by now shadowing the quarry. Although precious time was lost by this incident, it proved beneficial to the British in that the magnetic detonators on the torpedoes used against Sheffield were seen to be defective and for the following attack on Bismarck were replaced by those designed to explode on contact. In a final attack, almost in darkness at 21:05, a hit by a single torpedo from a Swordfish of 818 NAS (piloted by Sub-Lieutenant John Moffat) jammed Bismarck's rudder and steering gear. This rendered Bismarck virtually unmanoeuvrable, increased her list to port and she was able only to steam in a large circle in the general direction of King George V and Rodney, two frontline battleships that had been in pursuit from the west. After extensive efforts to free the jammed rudders, the fleet command finally acknowledged their, by now, impossible position in several messages to naval headquarters. Lütjens promised that the ship would fight until the last shell was spent. The cost to the attacking British had been five Swordfish damaged, one beyond repair.
Throughout the night of 26/27 May, Bismarck was the target of incessant torpedo attacks by the Tribal-class destroyers Cossack, Sikh, Maori and Zulu, with the Polish Piorun. Bismarck inflicted some damage to the British destroyers. Aboard Zulu a sub-lieutenant in the gunnery control tower lost a hand to shell splinters when a shell landed on the destroyer's forecastle, but did not explode. Cossack had its radio antenna sheared off by a shell. The constant harrying tactics of the British helped wear down the morale of the Germans and deepened the fatigue of an already exhausted crew.
Both Ark Royal and Renown had a lucky escape during the night. The British ships were unaware they had come within firing range of Kapitänleutnant Herbert Wohlfarth's U-556 submarine, which had earlier exercised with Bismarck in the Baltic, with Bismarck being referred to as the submarine's "big brother". However, U-556 was returning from a combat patrol and had spent its torpedoes. U-556 continued to shadow the British forces, reporting their position and guiding other U-boats to the area.
Around 08:00 on 27 May, Rodney and King George V closed to within 21 nautical miles (39 km) of Bismarck, with their enemy well illuminated by the morning sun in the background. At this point visibility was only 10 nautical miles (19 km) and the sea state at 4-5. High winds were blowing in 320 degrees from the North West at a force of 6-7. Rodney steered to the north so that her gunfire would work the length of Bismarck, while King George V took the side. They opened fire at 08:47. Bismarck returned fire, but her inability to steer and her list to port affected accuracy. Her low speed of seven knots made her an easy target, and she was soon hit several times, with heavy cruisers Norfolk and Dorsetshire adding their firepower. At 09:02 an 8-inch (200 mm) shell from Norfolk hit the main gun director, killing the gunnery officer, Adalbert Schneider, who had been awarded the Knight's Cross in the early hours of the same morning for his part in sinking Hood. At 09:08 a heavy shell from Rodney hit both of Bismarck's forward turrets, Anton and Bruno, disabling the latter; this was followed by another salvo which destroyed the forward control post, killing most of the senior officers.The aft turrets, Caesar and Dora, continued to fire locally. At 09:21 Dora was knocked out. The crew of Anton managed to fire one last salvo at 09:27. At 09:31 Caesar fired its last salvo and was then knocked out. This salvo straddled Rodney jamming the ship's torpedo tubes. Bismarck's salvoes throughout the battle were directed at Rodney, the older ship (perhaps in the hope of achieving a success similar to Hood). When Admiral Guernsey observed this, he remarked: "Thank heavens she's shooting at Rodney".The closest Bismarck came to threatening King George V was when von Müllenheim, under local fire control, zeroed in on the enemy but had his director blown away by a direct hit before fire could be directed at the British battleship.
Within 44 minutes, Bismarck's heavy guns were all silent. Rodney now closed to point-blank range (approximately three km) to pound the superstructure, while King George V fired from further out.
With no sign of surrender, despite the unequal struggle, the British were loath to leave Bismarck. Their fuel and shell supplies were low, a demonstration of how difficult it was for a battleship to sink a similar unit, even in an unbalanced engagement. However, when it became obvious that their enemy could not reach port, Rodney, King George V and the destroyers were sent home. Norfolk had no torpedoes left, so Dorsetshire launched three 21-inch (533 mm) torpedoes, which may have hit Bismarck at comparatively short range. The battleship's upper works were almost completely destroyed but her engines were still functioning, although Johannes "Hans" Zimmermann, a boiler room stoker who survived, confirms that salt water had entered the boiler feed lines causing the engineers to reduce speed to seven knots, fearing an explosion,and the hull appeared to be relatively sound; therefore, rather than risk her being captured, survivors have said the order to scuttle and then abandon ship was given. Many of the crew went into the water, but few sailors from the lower engine spaces survived. As Captain Lindemann was presumed killed with all officers after the bridge was hit by a 16-inch (410 mm) shell, it is unclear whether he could have given the order to scuttle. Some of the survivors, though, strongly maintain they saw him going down alive with his ship.
Bismarck slipped below the waves stern first at 10:39 that morning. Unaware of the fate of the ship, Group West, the German command base, continued to issue signals to Bismarck for some hours, until Reuters reported news from Britain that the ship had been sunk. In Britain, the House of Commons was informed of the sinking early that afternoon.
Dorsetshire and Maori stopped to rescue survivors, but a U-boat alarm caused them to leave the scene after rescuing only 110 Bismarck sailors, abandoning the surviving crew in the water. The next morning U-74, which had heard sinking noises from a distance, and the German weather ship Sachsenwald picked up 5 survivors. In all, 1,995 of the ship's crew of 2,200 died.
After the sinking John Tovey wrote in his memoirs, "The Bismarck had put up a most gallant fight against impossible odds, worthy of the old days of the Imperial German Navy, and she went down with her colours flying". The admiral had wanted to say this publicly but the Admiralty informed him: "For political reasons it is essential that nothing of the nature of the sentiments expressed by you should be given publicity, however much we admire a gallant fight".
kaa
Footballguy
Not quite correct. To misquote Patton:No war led to economic prosperity by breaking your own windows and then paying to repair them. They lead to economic prosperity when you break the other poor dumb *******'s windows and then made him break his own bank to pay you to fix it.Or another way to put it:If you assume the delinquent boy is also a glazier, then his act of breaking your window and then getting you to pay him to fix it does in fact increase the boy's economic prosperity.
Redwes25
Footballguy
Operation Barborossa - Weaponry
I am going to touch on this briefly but don’t have time to do it justice.
Armor:
Germany - German armor consisted primarily of the Panzer III and Panzer IV which at the time were primarily armed with a medium velocity 50mm gun and a low-velocity 75mm gun, respectively. The primary anti-tank for the infantry was the tiny 37mm antitank gun
Russia - The primary tank of the Russians at the start of the conflict was the lightly armored T-26 which was no match for the German tanks. However, the T-34 and Kv-1 had begun being put in service and over 1,000 of these tanks were in operation. T-34 was the best tank of the war and was faster, had thicker armor and was equipped with a 76mm high velocity gun. The KV-1 was a beast and also had the 76mm gun and its armor was so thick it could only be knocked out by the German’s vaunted 88mm antiaircraft gun which found its calling in the Eastern front as an antitank weapon. The Russian’s greatest disadvantage was that they did not have radios in their tanks and even when equipment was brought to bear they could not fight as a coordinated unit like the Germans.
Airforce:
Germany - Others have touched on this in depth and the airforce was lead by the Me 109 which was a first class fighter. The German bomber force was limited in range and payload capacity as shown in the Battle of Britain but the Stuka would once again show its prowess when the German airforce controlled the sky which they would in the opening months of the conflict
Russia - Airforce was outclassed at the start of the war even though its almost 10,000 combat plans at the start of the conflict made it the largest airforce in the world as most of these planes were entirely obsolete at the beginning of the conflict. The new Mig-3 fighter was equal or better to the German aircraft but enough trained pilots to fly the 1,000 or so aircraft already delivered did not exist at the beginning of the conflict to make a difference. This was also true of the Il-2 ground attack fighter.
I am going to touch on this briefly but don’t have time to do it justice.
Armor:
Germany - German armor consisted primarily of the Panzer III and Panzer IV which at the time were primarily armed with a medium velocity 50mm gun and a low-velocity 75mm gun, respectively. The primary anti-tank for the infantry was the tiny 37mm antitank gun
Russia - The primary tank of the Russians at the start of the conflict was the lightly armored T-26 which was no match for the German tanks. However, the T-34 and Kv-1 had begun being put in service and over 1,000 of these tanks were in operation. T-34 was the best tank of the war and was faster, had thicker armor and was equipped with a 76mm high velocity gun. The KV-1 was a beast and also had the 76mm gun and its armor was so thick it could only be knocked out by the German’s vaunted 88mm antiaircraft gun which found its calling in the Eastern front as an antitank weapon. The Russian’s greatest disadvantage was that they did not have radios in their tanks and even when equipment was brought to bear they could not fight as a coordinated unit like the Germans.
Airforce:
Germany - Others have touched on this in depth and the airforce was lead by the Me 109 which was a first class fighter. The German bomber force was limited in range and payload capacity as shown in the Battle of Britain but the Stuka would once again show its prowess when the German airforce controlled the sky which they would in the opening months of the conflict
Russia - Airforce was outclassed at the start of the war even though its almost 10,000 combat plans at the start of the conflict made it the largest airforce in the world as most of these planes were entirely obsolete at the beginning of the conflict. The new Mig-3 fighter was equal or better to the German aircraft but enough trained pilots to fly the 1,000 or so aircraft already delivered did not exist at the beginning of the conflict to make a difference. This was also true of the Il-2 ground attack fighter.
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Sink the Bismarck--by Johnny Horton.
You may not have heard this song in a long time, but it's a great song and video, with stills of the Bismarck, Hood and the German officers.
You may not have heard this song in a long time, but it's a great song and video, with stills of the Bismarck, Hood and the German officers.
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