World's Greatest Draft (1 Viewer)

[larry_boy_44]

OK, on to Yankee. First, I really wish you hadn't ranked Smith, because it creates a quandary for me. And here it is:I BELIEVE THE #1 INTELLECTUAL SHOULD HAVE BEEN SIGMUND FREUD.Why Freud over Jung? Because Freud is the first man who decided that the human mind was a field of study. He created a whole new science. Others have contributed to the science since, and some, like Jung (arguably) may have provided as much or more knowledge that is relevant to us today. But Freud is the one who started it all. Why Freud over everyone else on the list? Because first, his particular field of study has greater reaching implications upon the future of human civilization, and second, because he is more important to his field of study than any of the others are to theirs. Now I realize that both statements on my part are going to raise quite a bit of argument and Yankee does not agree. I happen to agree with you, Yankee, that Adam Smith is the most important economic thinker who ever lived, with the possible exception of Karl Marx, who is not in this category. But I cannot place Adam Smith above Sigmund Freud, who I regard as the #1 intellectual of all time. I won't do it.So obviously we disagree, and rather than belabor our disagreement, Yankee, I offer you the following compromise: move Freud up in the rankings as far as you are comfortable with. Where ever you move him to, I'll slot Adam Smith in the same spot, and they'll be tied at that ranking. If you leave things the way they are, then I will put Smith at #11, tied with Freud. I do think Smith deserves top 2 or 3 ranking, but not above Freud. If you want to move Freud up to #1, then I'll have Smith tied with him for #1, and you'll get your 20 points. It's up to you.

uh...that's really absurd, Tim...you shouldn't be editing the rankings of judges like that...

 

[larry_boy_44]

mmm...science sex...mmm

excellent work, sir. you've overweighted economics & underweighted antiquity, but i have no substantial quarrel with your rankings. since im prolly the person on these boards who agrees with you least, that should likely then suffice as praise. and no one with any sense at all would weigh Freud ahead of Jung intellectually or as a scientist. the elder of the two being the one to break the seal on popular psychology actually set our psychic evolution back as much as Paul of Tarses did Christ's ethic. and, though i expected thoughtful evaluations, i was surprised by how well-rounded they were. well done -

this is my issue with his rankings, too...

 

[Mario Kart]

I am not sure of your background in psychology and I make no claims to be anywhere near an expert but I do believe that most of Freud's theories have been proven wrong.He is also did not create a new field of science. Others studied psychology before him. What he did too was found a new school of psychology.

From what I know and have learned... Freud's theories have not been proven wrong by any measure. However, I am not aware of any test to come to a quantitative measure to "prove" his theories correct. Freud was simply trying to map out the mind in a way for people to understand. Much of Psychology is theories that can never be proven but only tested over and over and over again. Psychologists know certain things lead to certain outcomes but there is no 100% certainty or even 95% certainty at all. In defense of Freud, some of his techniques really do work as long as the participant is willing to play along. Free Association and Transference are two key ones that "can be proven to work" but again, there is no certain outcome to either.

 

[timschochet]

OK, here goes.

1. As stated, I believe that Adam Smith is less influential than Sigmund Freud.

2. I also believe that Adam Smith is either less influential or equally influential than John Locke.

3. However, I also believe that Adam Smith is MUCH more influential than Keynes, Machiavelli, and Hobbes.

I do not appreciate the fact that Yankee ranked Adam Smith as #1 despite my express wishes that he not do so. I feel this was in very poor taste. I also do not like the fact that I have been attacked here for presenting what I felt was a perfectly good compromise- in some cases personally attacked, which I believe is completely undeserved. All of this makes me want to punish Adam Smith.

But Smith doesn't deserve punishment, and the fact is he deserves to be ranked higher than the three people slotted at #2, #3, and #4.

Therefore... I am, very reluctantly, giving Adam Smith the #1 ranking.

The rankings are done, and now I really do have to leave. Will someone please tabulate the final results so that I can set up the playoff rankings? TIA

 

[flysack]

FREUD INVENTED THE UNCONSCIOUS. IT DIDN'T "EXIST" BEFORE HIM.

ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME?

Many many many intellectuals have said the entire project of the 20th century was trying to fuse Marx and Freud.

Freud has DOMINATED thought since he was around. He's so effing infused in the culture that you can ask anyone who's never read a lick of Freud and they'll tell you what a "Freudian slip" is, or what the "Oedipal Complex" is, or what the unconscious is, or the subconscious, or the Ego, and many will know what the Superego and the Id are.

Ask the same people what an archetype is. Further, ask them to name ONE archetype.

Your rankings are TERRIBLE. Freud should be top 3 based on world influence alone.



For every person who says Freud "set the field back" you have a Lacan, who is(was) perhaps one of the most ingenious and influential psychoanalyst/theorists of the second half of the 20th century --- and he was a staunch Freudian.

Lacan >>> Jung.

Freud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jung.

And I like Jung. But your causal and uninformed dismissal of Freud is astounding.

I'm just shocked.

 

[Mario Kart]

re: Yankee

Shame, shame on you. You need to go sit in the corner now and think about your actions. No dinner for you tonight.

 

[Mario Kart]

FREUD INVENTED THE UNCONSCIOUS. IT DIDN'T "EXIST" BEFORE HIM.

ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME?

Many many many intellectuals have said the entire project of the 20th century was trying to fuse Marx and Freud.

Freud has DOMINATED thought since he was around. He's so effing infused in the culture that you can ask anyone who's never read a lick of Freud and they'll tell you what a "Freudian slip" is, or what the "Oedipal Complex" is, or what the unconscious is, or the subconscious, or the Ego, and many will know what the Superego and the Id are.

Ask the same people what an archetype is. Further, ask them to name ONE archetype.

Your rankings are TERRIBLE. Freud should be top 3 based on world influence alone.

Ah, I see you did take Intro to Psychology in college. Good for you.

 

[Abrantes]

FREUD INVENTED THE UNCONSCIOUS. IT DIDN'T "EXIST" BEFORE HIM.ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME?Many many many intellectuals have said the entire project of the 20th century was trying to fuse Marx and Freud.Freud has DOMINATED thought since he was around. He's so effing infused in the culture that you can ask anyone who's never read a lick of Freud and they'll tell you what a "Freudian slip" is, or what the "Oedipal Complex" is, or what the unconscious is, or the subconscious, or the Ego, and many will know what the Superego and the Id are.Ask the same people what an archetype is. Further, ask them to name ONE archetype.Your rankings are TERRIBLE. Freud should be top 3 based on world influence alone. For every person who says Freud "set the field back" you have a Lacan, who is(was) perhaps one of the most ingenious and influential psychoanalyst/theorists of the second half of the 20th century --- and he was a staunch Freudian.

I can only assume this is a joke, considering your literary rankings and how much worth you likely placed on cultural popularity or whether the common man knows what a hobbit is.

 

[Orange Crush]

OK, guys. Mario is the third to object. I disagree with all of you; I think what I offered was totally fair, and much more fair than Yankee attempting to place Adam Smith at #1, but I will concede to your wishes. Give me one moment to figure out where Adam Smith should be.

It is well within your prerogative to rank Adam Smith wherever you want, per the rules that you set up. But for you to attempt to get Yankee to coerce Yankee into changing his rankings with a threat to rank Smith as low as #11 is classless.

 

[flysack]

FREUD INVENTED THE UNCONSCIOUS. IT DIDN'T "EXIST" BEFORE HIM.

ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME?

Many many many intellectuals have said the entire project of the 20th century was trying to fuse Marx and Freud.

Freud has DOMINATED thought since he was around. He's so effing infused in the culture that you can ask anyone who's never read a lick of Freud and they'll tell you what a "Freudian slip" is, or what the "Oedipal Complex" is, or what the unconscious is, or the subconscious, or the Ego, and many will know what the Superego and the Id are.

Ask the same people what an archetype is. Further, ask them to name ONE archetype.

Your rankings are TERRIBLE. Freud should be top 3 based on world influence alone.

Ah, I see you did take Intro to Psychology in college. Good for you.

Yes, I did. I also took a graduate seminar on Freud. And one on Deleuze and Guattari. I'm smart. Worship me.

 

[flysack]

FREUD INVENTED THE UNCONSCIOUS. IT DIDN'T "EXIST" BEFORE HIM.ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME?Many many many intellectuals have said the entire project of the 20th century was trying to fuse Marx and Freud.Freud has DOMINATED thought since he was around. He's so effing infused in the culture that you can ask anyone who's never read a lick of Freud and they'll tell you what a "Freudian slip" is, or what the "Oedipal Complex" is, or what the unconscious is, or the subconscious, or the Ego, and many will know what the Superego and the Id are.Ask the same people what an archetype is. Further, ask them to name ONE archetype.Your rankings are TERRIBLE. Freud should be top 3 based on world influence alone. For every person who says Freud "set the field back" you have a Lacan, who is(was) perhaps one of the most ingenious and influential psychoanalyst/theorists of the second half of the 20th century --- and he was a staunch Freudian.

I can only assume this is a joke, considering your literary rankings and how much worth you likely placed on cultural popularity or whether the common man knows what a hobbit is.

This isn't literature. Freud invented his field. Unlike Cervantes, he didn't write one great book - he wrote at least a dozen great books, some better than others, but all of them were revolutionary and insightful.

 

[timschochet]

OK, guys. Mario is the third to object. I disagree with all of you; I think what I offered was totally fair, and much more fair than Yankee attempting to place Adam Smith at #1, but I will concede to your wishes. Give me one moment to figure out where Adam Smith should be.

It is well within your prerogative to rank Adam Smith wherever you want, per the rules that you set up. But for you to attempt to get Yankee to coerce Yankee into changing his rankings with a threat to rank Smith as low as #11 is classless.

That's your opinion, and it seems to be the overwhelming opinion here. I'm sure you'll get one or more s.I respect you guys, and I backed down, but I still disagree. I was not threatening to place Smith at #11, I was simply going to do it because I did not want Smith to be so far above Freud. But at the same time I did not want to put Smith at #11, because he doesn't deserve to be placed there. So I was looking for an honest way out of this dilemma. I was hoping Yankee and I could meet in the middle. Originally I was going to PM him, but I like to put things out there in the open. There was no attempt on my part either to coerce or bribe Yankee- I would hope that, Wikkidpissah's rather rude comments aside, people who have read me should know enough about me by now to know that I don't do things that way. If that's the way you guys took it, that's fine, I can't change it now. But there was no intention to be classless.

 

[Mario Kart]

This isn't literature. Freud invented his field. Unlike Cervantes, he didn't write one great book - he wrote at least a dozen great books, some better than others, but all of them were revolutionary and insightful.

For as smart as you claim to be and for those graduate seminars you supposedly took, I would hope you came away with more knowledge about Psychology than you are displaying here. If you think Freud invented his field, you should either go back to that school and ask for your money back, or go pay them more money for your lack of understanding. You cannot be serious here.

 

[FUBAR]

Freud has DOMINATED thought since he was around. He's so effing infused in the culture that you can ask anyone who's never read a lick of Freud and they'll tell you what a "Freudian slip" is, or what the "Oedipal Complex" is, or what the unconscious is, or the subconscious, or the Ego, and many will know what the Superego and the Id are.

Ask the same people what an archetype is. Further, ask them to name ONE archetype.

Your rankings are TERRIBLE. Freud should be top 3 based on world influence alone.



For every person who says Freud "set the field back" you have a Lacan, who is(was) perhaps one of the most ingenious and influential psychoanalyst/theorists of the second half of the 20th century --- and he was a staunch Freudian.

Lacan >>> Jung.

Freud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jung.

And I like Jung. But your causal and uninformed dismissal of Freud is astounding.

I'm just shocked.

Maybe he should have been in the celebrity category. Funny thing, I know of the "Oedipal Complex" but I never associated it with Fraud.

 

[wikkidpissah]

rude's what i do best. and i can be classless with no intention at all.

 

[wikkidpissah]

This isn't literature. Freud invented his field. Unlike Cervantes, he didn't write one great book - he wrote at least a dozen great books, some better than others, but all of them were revolutionary and insightful.

For as smart as you claim to be and for those graduate seminars you supposedly took, I would hope you came away with more knowledge about Psychology than you are displaying here. If you think Freud invented his field, you should either go back to that school and ask for your money back, or go pay them more money for your lack of understanding. You cannot be serious here.

smart people are some of the dumbest people i know. a fancy education is like fake boobies - impressive at first but, at last, a lifeless betrayal of form.

 

[FUBAR]

OK, guys. Mario is the third to object. I disagree with all of you; I think what I offered was totally fair, and much more fair than Yankee attempting to place Adam Smith at #1, but I will concede to your wishes. Give me one moment to figure out where Adam Smith should be.

It is well within your prerogative to rank Adam Smith wherever you want, per the rules that you set up. But for you to attempt to get Yankee to coerce Yankee into changing his rankings with a threat to rank Smith as low as #11 is classless.

That's your opinion, and it seems to be the overwhelming opinion here. I'm sure you'll get one or more s.I respect you guys, and I backed down, but I still disagree. I was not threatening to place Smith at #11, I was simply going to do it because I did not want Smith to be so far above Freud. But at the same time I did not want to put Smith at #11, because he doesn't deserve to be placed there. So I was looking for an honest way out of this dilemma. I was hoping Yankee and I could meet in the middle. Originally I was going to PM him, but I like to put things out there in the open. There was no attempt on my part either to coerce or bribe Yankee- I would hope that, Wikkidpissah's rather rude comments aside, people who have read me should know enough about me by now to know that I don't do things that way. If that's the way you guys took it, that's fine, I can't change it now. But there was no intention to be classless.

I went after you harder than he did, partly because I was surprised by it. Go back and re-read what you wrote and I think you'll understand why someone would read it the way I did. I sort of understand where you're coming from, if you believe X>Y, but X<Z and you're forced to put the opposite one way or another, I can see your dilemma. But, it still came off as an attempt to sway the rankings. Even if he never ranked Smith you would have the same problem, so I don't see how that impacted your thought process.

 

[flysack]

This isn't literature. Freud invented his field. Unlike Cervantes, he didn't write one great book - he wrote at least a dozen great books, some better than others, but all of them were revolutionary and insightful.

For as smart as you claim to be and for those graduate seminars you supposedly took, I would hope you came away with more knowledge about Psychology than you are displaying here. If you think Freud invented his field, you should either go back to that school and ask for your money back, or go pay them more money for your lack of understanding. You cannot be serious here.

I love people who make dismissive claims without supplying one iota of counter-evidence to support it. Also, I didn't say Freud invented Psychology. I said he invented his field. That field is psychoanalysis.

 

[FUBAR]

This isn't literature. Freud invented his field. Unlike Cervantes, he didn't write one great book - he wrote at least a dozen great books, some better than others, but all of them were revolutionary and insightful.

For as smart as you claim to be and for those graduate seminars you supposedly took, I would hope you came away with more knowledge about Psychology than you are displaying here. If you think Freud invented his field, you should either go back to that school and ask for your money back, or go pay them more money for your lack of understanding. You cannot be serious here.

smart people are some of the dumbest people i know. a fancy education is like fake boobies - impressive at first but, at last, a lifeless betrayal of form.

Bryn Mawr had done what a four-year dose of liberal education was designed to do: unfit her for eighty per cent of useful work of the world.

- Toni Morrison

 

[flysack]

This isn't literature. Freud invented his field. Unlike Cervantes, he didn't write one great book - he wrote at least a dozen great books, some better than others, but all of them were revolutionary and insightful.

For as smart as you claim to be and for those graduate seminars you supposedly took, I would hope you came away with more knowledge about Psychology than you are displaying here. If you think Freud invented his field, you should either go back to that school and ask for your money back, or go pay them more money for your lack of understanding. You cannot be serious here.

smart people are some of the dumbest people i know. a fancy education is like fake boobies - impressive at first but, at last, a lifeless betrayal of form.

Hey man, Mario is the one who brought up education. I was arguing the issue. Maybe you should try it too.So please, instead of ad hominem dismissal, argue against Freud. Unless you and Mario Kart want to keep up the vague dismissal game like a couple of, -gasp-, snobs.

 

[timschochet]

I went after you harder than he did, partly because I was surprised by it. Go back and re-read what you wrote and I think you'll understand why someone would read it the way I did. I sort of understand where you're coming from, if you believe X>Y, but X<Z and you're forced to put the opposite one way or another, I can see your dilemma. But, it still came off as an attempt to sway the rankings. Even if he never ranked Smith you would have the same problem, so I don't see how that impacted your thought process.

All right, reading it again you may have a point that it did not come off the right way. Still, people should know me by now, especially in light of the way I responded to Misfit Blondes preliminary athlete rankings, to know that I would never attempt anything underhanded. So the accusations I received as a result of the offer were way off. But it's done; let's move on. Does anyone have the final tabulations?

 

[flysack]

Bryn Mawr had done what a four-year dose of liberal education was designed to do: unfit her for eighty per cent of useful work of the world.

- Toni Morrison

There's zero ironic humor in that quote. None. Not from a woman with a liberal arts degree and an MA from Cornell, where she studied Faulkner.

 

[flysack]

Boo hoo. Mario came and left.

I guess he's too good to argue with a plebeian like myself.

I'll have to settle with haughty dismissal.

 

[Mario Kart]

I love people who make dismissive claims without supplying one iota of counter-evidence to support it. Also, I didn't say Freud invented Psychology. I said he invented his field. That field is psychoanalysis.

Psychoanalysis is not leaps and bounds, head over heals much different than "normal" Psychology. If you think it is, well that is on you. Psychoanalysis is a branch of the tree which is Psychology. If you are going to give oodles of credit to one with Psychology as the foot hold, then you need to give it to the originator, which is acceptable to be Wilhelm Wundt. Maybe he should have been drafted. Needless to say, Freud is but a branch and that branch has wilted a bit as the years go by. Is Freud important, was Freud important, is Freud the end-all-be-all of intelligence? Yes, yes, most definitely no.Excuse the "snobbery" but if you are going to pawn off your knowledge of literature as "holier than thou" and above most, if not all, in this thread, then be prepared to be wrong and take your lumps when it comes to Psychology. TIA

 

[wikkidpissah]

This isn't literature. Freud invented his field. Unlike Cervantes, he didn't write one great book - he wrote at least a dozen great books, some better than others, but all of them were revolutionary and insightful.

For as smart as you claim to be and for those graduate seminars you supposedly took, I would hope you came away with more knowledge about Psychology than you are displaying here. If you think Freud invented his field, you should either go back to that school and ask for your money back, or go pay them more money for your lack of understanding. You cannot be serious here.

smart people are some of the dumbest people i know. a fancy education is like fake boobies - impressive at first but, at last, a lifeless betrayal of form.

Hey man, Mario is the one who brought up education. I was arguing the issue. Maybe you should try it too.So please, instead of ad hominem dismissal, argue against Freud. Unless you and Mario Kart want to keep up the vague dismissal game like a couple of, -gasp-, snobs.

once you show the courage of your convictions, i'll be happy to argue with or against you. til then, snipe-for-snipe is both more entertaining & informative, as well as something i'm far better at than you, which seems to be the point of all you say.

 

[Orange Crush]

Final Overall Rankings (until some Judge decides to change it)

Rk Team JudgeRkSum Points Value

1 DougB 151 311 77

2 Arsenal of Doom 176 286 36

3 BobbyLayne 185 277 48

4 thatguy 188 274 44

5 Mad Sweeney 201 261 22

6 FUBAR 202 260 23

7 Thorn 207 255 24

8 Yankee23fan 218 244 22

9 Acer FC 221 241 16

10 Abrantes 224 238 8

11 John Madden's Lunchbox 224 238 -3

12 Andy Dufresne 229 233 1

13 Mario Kart 235 227 -13

14 DC Thunder 248 214 -15

15 higgins 260 202 -24

16 Big Rocks 265 197 -26

17 Mister CIA 276 186 -45

18 Larry Boy 281 181 -41

19 Usual21 304 158 -77

20 Herbert the Hippo 305 157 -73

 

[flysack]

I love people who make dismissive claims without supplying one iota of counter-evidence to support it. Also, I didn't say Freud invented Psychology. I said he invented his field. That field is psychoanalysis.

Psychoanalysis is not leaps and bounds, head over heals much different than "normal" Psychology. If you think it is, well that is on you. Psychoanalysis is a branch of the tree which is Psychology. If you are going to give oodles of credit to one with Psychology as the foot hold, then you need to give it to the originator, which is acceptable to be Wilhelm Wundt. Maybe he should have been drafted. Needless to say, Freud is but a branch and that branch has wilted a bit as the years go by. Is Freud important, was Freud important, is Freud the end-all-be-all of intelligence? Yes, yes, most definitely no.Excuse the "snobbery" but if you are going to pawn off your knowledge of literature as "holier than thou" and above most, if not all, in this thread, then be prepared to be wrong and take your lumps when it comes to Psychology. TIA

Psychoanalysis is certainly one branch of psychology, but my point was how influential Freud's thought was on the world. He invented psychoanalysis. He invented the unconscious. His work was massively influential on the way people see themselves, as well as literary studies, anthropology, sociology, and various other fields. Also, thanks for responding with something substantial.

 

[flysack]

This isn't literature. Freud invented his field. Unlike Cervantes, he didn't write one great book - he wrote at least a dozen great books, some better than others, but all of them were revolutionary and insightful.

For as smart as you claim to be and for those graduate seminars you supposedly took, I would hope you came away with more knowledge about Psychology than you are displaying here. If you think Freud invented his field, you should either go back to that school and ask for your money back, or go pay them more money for your lack of understanding. You cannot be serious here.

smart people are some of the dumbest people i know. a fancy education is like fake boobies - impressive at first but, at last, a lifeless betrayal of form.

Hey man, Mario is the one who brought up education. I was arguing the issue. Maybe you should try it too.So please, instead of ad hominem dismissal, argue against Freud. Unless you and Mario Kart want to keep up the vague dismissal game like a couple of, -gasp-, snobs.

once you show the courage of your convictions, i'll be happy to argue with or against you. til then, snipe-for-snipe is both more entertaining & informative, as well as something i'm far better at than you, which seems to be the point of all you say.

Sorry dude, this made zero sense. At least Mario engaged with something substantial.

 

[timschochet]

Congratulations to DougB for winning the Judges rankings.

Here is the playoff schedule for round 1:

Monday: Mario Kart vs. Herbert the Hippo

Tuesday: DC Thunder vs. Usual21

Wednesday: higgins vs. larry boy 44

Thursday: Big Rocks vs. Mister CIA

Round two starts Friday with DougB vs. the winner of Thursday's playoff.

All playoffs will start at 9am EST, except on a few mornings when I have to leave early, (they may start up to 45 minutes before that) and will stop at 7 pm EST, unless there is a tie, in which case there will be a half hour extension of the clock.

 

[wikkidpissah]

once you show the courage of your convictions, i'll be happy to argue with or against you. til then, snipe-for-snipe is both more entertaining & informative, as well as something i'm far better at than you, which seems to be the point of all you say.

Sorry dude, this made zero sense. At least Mario engaged with something substantial.

ahhhh, THERE'S the courage....

 

[Mario Kart]

Psychoanalysis is certainly one branch of psychology, but my point was how influential Freud's thought was on the world. He invented psychoanalysis. He invented the unconscious. His work was massively influential on the way people see themselves, as well as literary studies, anthropology, sociology, and various other fields.

Psychology as a whole has probably had more influence on people and their lives than any other science... if one considers Psychology a science. With that said, it seems pretty unfair and not genuine at all to give credit to one person in that venture. Freud had a team of psychologists who all had one idea (in theory) and ran with their own idea but Freud was not alone. Psychology itself is the study of the mind so to say Freud invented the unconscious is again, to me, not a genuine gesture. He might have given a name to it but others had different names for the same thing. There is plenty of credit to go around and had this draft taken place in the 1920's, Freud may very well be #1 or possibly #1 pick overall because he was the face of Psychology but his overall ideas were no different than many others. The one thing Freud did that stood out, ironically Yankee pointed it out, was that he openly talked about sex and the body parts of people in a way that was not talked about before. Sex sells. Freud tapped into the minds of people that everyone wanted to hear at that time. What is more interesting? Talking about how a person remembers things or talking about the sex drive or why people prefer certain sexual acts? Yeah, sex will win that battle 99% of the time. People listened because sex interested them. Psychoanalysis, well, over the years has not held up well. Before it was all the rage but overtime with other studies and other approaches, psychoanalysis has shown to not do much... unless the participant is willing to go along with it. Freud may be given credit for getting people to talk about themselves in a time when that was unheard of, but overtime, what has that done for Psychology? Yeah, lets go talk about ourselves.Too much emphasis is put on Freud and what he did while other influential figures are swept under the rug. While Freud is intelligent, he is no more intelligent than most in his field. Some of his ideas were new because they had names to it but others knew about those without the names. Pretty pictures, pretty ideas, and sex make people listen. Freud did that perfectly.

 

[Bonzai]

11. Sigmund Freud - Best known for his theories of the unconscious mind, he is the father of sex psychoanalysis. Some of his ideas still influence sex other aspects like social science and the humanities. He was an early proponent and user of sex cocaine, which if not for him sex, we might not have Eric Clapton's great song. But in the end his work with the mind was sex revolutionary and opened up worlds of science sex that weren't possible prior. And even when his conclusions have been disagreed with sex, many practitioners sex still use his methods. It appears, and I didn't know this, that there is a group of practitioners who think he set the practice back, and didn't move it forward. Either way, his impact throughout our world, right down to the cultural iconography of his work sex cannot be diminished. A similar practitioner was drafted as well.

Attack away!

I agree with Smith at #1, but Freud should definitely be #2.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Final Overall Rankings (until some Judge decides to change it)Rk Team JudgeRkSum Points Value1 DougB 151 311 772 Arsenal of Doom 176 286 363 BobbyLayne 185 277 484 thatguy 188 274 445 Mad Sweeney 201 261 226 FUBAR 202 260 237 Thorn 207 255 248 Yankee23fan 218 244 229 Acer FC 221 241 1610 Abrantes 224 238 811 John Madden's Lunchbox 224 238 -312 Andy Dufresne 229 233 113 Mario Kart 235 227 -1314 DC Thunder 248 214 -1515 higgins 260 202 -2416 Big Rocks 265 197 -2617 Mister CIA 276 186 -4518 Larry Boy 281 181 -4119 Usual21 304 158 -7720 Herbert the Hippo 305 157 -73

Congrats DougB! You really ran away with this, and, unlike my semi-obscure team, you should do great in the voting.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

All right. Never let it be said that I go against the will of the majority here. Fubar and Abrantes both think I am way out of line, that I should simply rank Smith without worrying about Freud. If one more drafter shares that opinion, I will back down. Does anyone else agree with Fubar and Abrantes?

Don't worry. I'm not easily bribable and would not have changed my rankings to accomodate you. Rank Smith however you want.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

OK, guys. Mario is the third to object. I disagree with all of you; I think what I offered was totally fair, and much more fair than Yankee attempting to place Adam Smith at #1, but I will concede to your wishes. Give me one moment to figure out where Adam Smith should be.

I took his placement as a joke, as I would have jokingly done the same with Sulieman if I had remained the leaders judge - fully expecting you to judge differently.

I took it as Yankee's case for Adam Smith as #1 and his belief that he should be ranked #1 and then left it up to timschochet to move him down if he pleases.

This.I know that tim gets to judge him and I didn't want to try to make my rankings work in such a way that I ended up doing what tim wanted, which is to create a hole where you could place him. I think he's number 1 but know that my ranking of him in particular doesn't matter.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

re: YankeeShame, shame on you. You need to go sit in the corner now and think about your actions. No dinner for you tonight.

I ate already thanks.What exactly is the big deal? Tim gets to put him wherever he wants.

 

[Mario Kart]

re: YankeeShame, shame on you. You need to go sit in the corner now and think about your actions. No dinner for you tonight.

I ate already thanks.What exactly is the big deal? Tim gets to put him wherever he wants.

This was a joke.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I'm sorry if my placing my guy in the rankings is that big a deal - it wasn't in the other draft, and tim actually agreed with where I put him.

Smith is a top 5 ranking without question. The problem with the top 5 is that they can all be number 1. I will grant that I may have overvalued economics, and though I explained why - I think it's the one field in political science arena's that affect all others. And given the rules of the category, it seems to me that political science and economic philosophers by nature have a leg up on guys that studied the mind.

I also admit that I am not a student, in any manner, of Jung and Freud. And not for nothing, but my Freud write up was damn funny and only person laughed. I'm hurt at that more than anything else.

I really didn't mean to do anything "wrong" with that ranking and to be honest when I read that shinny would have made him #1 it seemed to me that given our exact opposite outlook on just about everything that it kind of backed up that initial thought. I didn't go into the rankings making sure my guy was #1, but he is up there.

Now, frankly, I don't get why tim is so bent on having to rank him. I'm not the only guy to mention where I think my guy should go, but that doesn't matter anyway. Place him wherever you want. If you think he should be lower, do it. It's not like I take it personal you know. Like I said, I can see an argument for everyone in my top 5 being in almost any order, and understand that the guys in 6-12 have a decent argument as well. This may have been one of the hardest categories to judge becase after the bottom 5, there is a case for everyone in the top 3.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

re: YankeeShame, shame on you. You need to go sit in the corner now and think about your actions. No dinner for you tonight.

I ate already thanks.What exactly is the big deal? Tim gets to put him wherever he wants.

This was a joke.

Oh sorry. I thought you were piling on. I still ate already though.

 

[thatguy]

I laughed at your Freud writeup.

 

[Doug B]

All right. Never let it be said that I go against the will of the majority here. Fubar and Abrantes both think I am way out of line, that I should simply rank Smith without worrying about Freud. If one more drafter shares that opinion, I will back down. Does anyone else agree with Fubar and Abrantes?

Late to this party, but Fubar and Abrantes were absolutely right.Sorry, tim and fly -- I don't have time to flesh this out but Freud, though he did a ton to open up psychology to true scientific inquiry, was just way too wrong about way too many things. He also liked to come to conclusions, then cherry-pick evidence after the facts to fit. To his credit, he did flush many of his theories down the toilet after a long while ... only to adopt equally wrong theories.

No way is Freud the unquestionable top Intellectual. A middle-of-the-road ranking is very much appropriate.

Full diclosure: like Tesla, most of the stuff I've read about Freud has been negative, some rather strongly.

 

[BobbyLayne]

re: Yankee

Shame, shame on you. You need to go sit in the corner now and think about your actions. No dinner for you tonight.

I ate already thanks.What exactly is the big deal? Tim gets to put him wherever he wants.

Please list all of the instances when a judges ranking was adjusted by timschochetStill waiting.

You knew what you were doing; once it got put up, it was staying.

timschochet has never once reranked a judges final ranking.

That's not the issue; everybody else who was a drafter doing rankings left their own pick unranked.

Freud was debateable if Aquinas, Descartes, Marx, Rousseau and Voltaire all weren't in the Philosopher category.

With all that talent gone, he is the one dominant in his field intellectual left.

Keynes is a farce; he should no better than 8th, below Malthus and Bacon.

If you Locke at #5, that's fine, so long as Hobbes is at #6.

Do you even have a clue what Leviathan is about? Hobbese was an absolutist; he believed in a strong central government, but he denied the right of rebellion, one of the most fundamental concepts in political theory.

How can you live in the United States and believe someone who argued against the right of rebellion (Hobbes) is superior to the first man who to identify modern concepts like identity, the self, and the natural rights of man to defend his life, health, liberty, or possessions (Locke)?

You know Locke is more influential than Smith; we discussed this a month ago. Popular vote, Wealth of Nations made Smith an icon, slam dunk in head-to-head matchups. As far as who was more influential overall, Locke = treatis on government, natural rights of man, OMG it's not even close - and you know this, pard, you're being intellectually dishonest here.

Freud
Machiavelli
Locke
Smith
Bacon
Jung
Hobbes
KeynesI was on my way home and missed the timschochet v. the mob exchange.

Orange Crush - you're called tim classless? How about the guy who ranked his own pick Number One, when timschochet posted both a general reminder to all judges to not rank their own pick, and specific reminder to Yankee23Fan to not rank Adam Smith.

Yankee23Fan - the stunt you pulled today is the epitome of cheesy, selfish behavior. For what? To get a couple points in a meaningless internet contest? So you could finish barely 8th or solidly 8th?

You're a piece of work, man.

 

[Doug B]

Also, I didn't say Freud invented Psychology. I said he invented his field. That field is psychoanalysis.

Psychoanalysis is hugely discredited these days. It is to psychology what leeches are to medicine.

 

[mad sweeney]

All right. Never let it be said that I go against the will of the majority here. Fubar and Abrantes both think I am way out of line, that I should simply rank Smith without worrying about Freud. If one more drafter shares that opinion, I will back down. Does anyone else agree with Fubar and Abrantes?

Don't worry. I'm not easily bribable and would not have changed my rankings to accomodate you. Rank Smith however you want.

No, you'll just drop him 4 or 5 points because an absentee judge comes in at the last minute and says he doesn't want Freud in the top ten. An absurd ranking and an even more absurd reason to drop him. You took over the rankings because SP was absent. You had Feurd in your top tier with a statement similar to "too hard to tell who is #1" and then booted him into the bottom half. So rank them according to your system, not your system with SP edits. Bottom tier of judges for you.

 

[thatguy]

Oof.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Yankee23Fan - the stunt you pulled today is the epitome of cheesy, selfish behavior. For what? To get a couple points in a meaningless internet contest? So you could finish barely 8th or solidly 8th?

You're a piece of work, man.

Um, ok. There was no evil intent in it.Look, why don't we make this simple. Rank Smith 20th. I really don't care - I know tim gets to place him wherever he wants. Had I not put Smith on that list, the rest of the list would have been exactly the same it is now and tim could insert him anywhere. If it really is felt that I did something bad here on purpose - which I didn't - then drop him off the list and give him a 20.

Of course, it won't matter at this point if I tell you that I had no idea what the rankings of the teams were when I did this, nor do I really care where I rank overall because I except to be in the teens. Not only that, but I took the 20 names and had no idea who had who except for my Smith.

But again, this is really such a waste of an argument. Drop him to 20. Freud moves up one as a result. Of course, it doesn't matter, I guess, that the guy I took over for would have made Smith #1 as well.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Yankee23Fan - the stunt you pulled today is the epitome of cheesy, selfish behavior. For what? To get a couple points in a meaningless internet contest? So you could finish barely 8th or solidly 8th?

You're a piece of work, man.

Um, ok. There was no evil intent in it.Look, why don't we make this simple. Rank Smith 20th. I really don't care - I know tim gets to place him wherever he wants. Had I not put Smith on that list, the rest of the list would have been exactly the same it is now and tim could insert him anywhere. If it really is felt that I did something bad here on purpose - which I didn't - then drop him off the list and give him a 20.

Of course, it won't matter at this point if I tell you that I had no idea what the rankings of the teams were when I did this, nor do I really care where I rank overall because I except to be in the teens. Not only that, but I took the 20 names and had no idea who had who except for my Smith.

But again, this is really such a waste of an argument. Drop him to 20. Freud moves up one as a result. Of course, it doesn't matter, I guess, that the guy I took over for would have made Smith #1 as well.

I was perfectly willing to let it go. You're the one who came in here and started Hipling. 5 out of 6 posts? Feeling just a tad guilty about the b.s. move you pulled? Sleep well tonight, my friend.

Your Intellectuals rankings stand as is; I'm done discussing this subject with you.

Let the playoffs begin.

 

[HERBERT THE HIPPO]

Final Overall Rankings (until some Judge decides to change it)Rk Team JudgeRkSum Points Value1 DougB 151 311 772 Arsenal of Doom 176 286 363 BobbyLayne 185 277 484 thatguy 188 274 445 Mad Sweeney 201 261 226 FUBAR 202 260 237 Thorn 207 255 248 Yankee23fan 218 244 229 Acer FC 221 241 1610 Abrantes 224 238 811 John Madden's Lunchbox 224 238 -312 Andy Dufresne 229 233 113 Mario Kart 235 227 -1314 DC Thunder 248 214 -1515 higgins 260 202 -2416 Big Rocks 265 197 -2617 Mister CIA 276 186 -4518 Larry Boy 281 181 -4119 Usual21 304 158 -7720 Herbert the Hippo 305 157 -73

So I finished in last by 1 point..........

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Yankee23Fan - the stunt you pulled today is the epitome of cheesy, selfish behavior. For what? To get a couple points in a meaningless internet contest? So you could finish barely 8th or solidly 8th?

You're a piece of work, man.

Um, ok. There was no evil intent in it.Look, why don't we make this simple. Rank Smith 20th. I really don't care - I know tim gets to place him wherever he wants. Had I not put Smith on that list, the rest of the list would have been exactly the same it is now and tim could insert him anywhere. If it really is felt that I did something bad here on purpose - which I didn't - then drop him off the list and give him a 20.

Of course, it won't matter at this point if I tell you that I had no idea what the rankings of the teams were when I did this, nor do I really care where I rank overall because I except to be in the teens. Not only that, but I took the 20 names and had no idea who had who except for my Smith.

But again, this is really such a waste of an argument. Drop him to 20. Freud moves up one as a result. Of course, it doesn't matter, I guess, that the guy I took over for would have made Smith #1 as well.

I was perfectly willing to let it go. You're the one who came in here and started Hipling. 5 out of 6 posts? Feeling just a tad guilty about the b.s. move you pulled? Sleep well tonight, my friend.

Your Intellectuals rankings stand as is; I'm done discussing this subject with you.

Let the playoffs begin.

I was responding to post as I got caught up in the thread since I was 3 pages behind. Seriously, WTF?

 

[thatguy]

Final Overall Rankings (until some Judge decides to change it)Rk Team JudgeRkSum Points Value1 DougB 151 311 772 Arsenal of Doom 176 286 363 BobbyLayne 185 277 484 thatguy 188 274 445 Mad Sweeney 201 261 226 FUBAR 202 260 237 Thorn 207 255 248 Yankee23fan 218 244 229 Acer FC 221 241 1610 Abrantes 224 238 811 John Madden's Lunchbox 224 238 -312 Andy Dufresne 229 233 113 Mario Kart 235 227 -1314 DC Thunder 248 214 -1515 higgins 260 202 -2416 Big Rocks 265 197 -2617 Mister CIA 276 186 -4518 Larry Boy 281 181 -4119 Usual21 304 158 -7720 Herbert the Hippo 305 157 -73

So I finished in last by 1 point..........