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World's Greatest Draft (1 Viewer)

:wub:

Right on queue.

Uncle. since you're here:

Once you blessed Art Tatum, I knew what direction you were going in and immediately thought of some virtuosos. How would you have ranked the following (not specifically, just "highly", "well", "mediocre", "low", etc. will suffice)?



Andrés Segovia VERY HIGH

Ella Fitzgerald MID

John Coltrane HIGH

Duke Ellington LOW (A decent musician, but not one of the greats. As a group, his orchestra would have been ranked pretty well. Would have REALLY liked to see him chosen in the composer category).
:) And yet you disrespect McLaughlin?!?! McLaughlin has done far more forms of music than Segovia, has worked with more far reaching musicians, and has a rep equal to or above Segovia. The only thing that Segovia has that McLaughlin doesn't is an older, European credibility, which has zero to do with music.



THAT'S IT, UH -- I'M THROUGH WITH YOU!!! BE GONE!!!!
Okay.You got me.

I'll let you in on my thinking here:

McLaughlin would have been ranked in the Top-2 . . . if it had been anybody else that had drafted him . . .

 
Uncle, the problem I'd have with drafting Duke's or Basie's orchestra is why not then the entire New York Philharmonic under Bernstein or the Berlin Symphony under von Krajan or the house orchestra from the Metropolitan Opera under the baton of Rudolph Bing or James Levine? Or if you want to stay in jazz, Woody' Herman's Thundering Herd or Benny Goodman's band? Lots of interchangeable parts in those ensembles.As for composers, after Irving Berlin got pummeled by commenters following his pick, there's no way picking Cole Porter or Gershwin or Steven Sondheim was going to fly, even if they were excellent songwriters and composers.
:wub: I strongly considered drafting the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra or London. According to the rules, I think we could have.
Both :goodposting:s
 
MisfitBlondes said:
Current Composers Rankings. Discussion and debate is welcome until Friday evening when I will post the final rankings.

1. Ludwig Van Beethoven

3. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

4. Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

5. Richard Wagner

6. Johannes Brahms

7. Igor Stravinsky

8. Joseph Haydn

9. Franz Schubert

10. George Frideric Handel

11. Frederic Chopin

12. Antonio Vivaldi

13. Antonin Dvorak

14. John Williams

15. Modest Mussorgsky

16. Edward Elgar

17. Johann Strauss II

18. Georg Philipp Telemann

19. Andrew Lloyd Webber

20. Irving Berlin

02. Johann Sebastian Bach
Was disappointed that George Gershwin and Duke Ellington went undrafted here.
They'd have gotten bottom-tiered by the judge, and probably would get ripped apart in the FFA voting, too. Unfairly or not, Chopin vs. Gershwin goes to Chopin because he's "old". Vivaldi or Handel trumps Ellington.And as we've seen, Gershwin and Ellington would even have been especially poor Wild Cards. So ... :wub:
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have expected them to be in the top-10.But I think they definitely deserve places on the list ahead of at least a few of the selections.

 
Can some of the drafters help me out with the intellectual category....These final two tiers, as of now, can be in almost any order within themselves, and obviously there is room for movement. I will say this, this a collection of a pretty damn impressive 20 people and I wouldn't be ashamed of drafting any of them. Basically, from 1-15 you have a solid absolutely interesting and category perfect selection who an argument can be made should be higher.
Looks like you've got a handle on it to me. What kind of feedback are you looking for?
That's basically it - am I coming out of left field or ont he ball, so to speak.
Well, I think Thucydides and Malthus should swap tiers. Thucydides is still mandatory reading in the field of political science two thousand years later, and the Melian dialogue is as important to events today as it was then. Malthus, while a brilliant intellect, ended up wrong on the assertion he is most remembered for. Though Malthus is so influential, maybe he should rank at the bottom of the top tier. And I'm a little surprised Blackstone is getting 2nd tier treatment from the lawyer. Maybe familiarity breeds contempt?
 
Uncle, the problem I'd have with drafting Duke's or Basie's orchestra is why not then the entire New York Philharmonic under Bernstein or the Berlin Symphony under von Krajan or the house orchestra from the Metropolitan Opera under the baton of Rudolph Bing or James Levine? Or if you want to stay in jazz, Woody' Herman's Thundering Herd or Benny Goodman's band? Lots of interchangeable parts in those ensembles.As for composers, after Irving Berlin got pummeled by commenters following his pick, there's no way picking Cole Porter or Gershwin or Steven Sondheim was going to fly, even if they were excellent songwriters and composers.
:wub: I strongly considered drafting the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra or London. According to the rules, I think we could have.
Both :goodposting:s
I had actually PM'ed Tim about drafting symphonies, orchestras, and choirs... did not include choirs in my request but he shot it down. I was looking that way because too many people were going pop culture. I waited on Franz for that reason as well. I also asked about drafting Marcel Marceau as a performer but was shot down as well. Oh well.
 
10. Henry Dunant
I really have no comment on this. None other than shock.
Did you post any biographical information other than the two paragraphs I quoted? Anyway, here is a little fuller picture of the man:
On February 7, 1863, the Société genevoise d'utilité publique [Geneva Society for Public Welfare] appointed a committee of five, including Dunant, to examine the possibility of putting this plan into action. With its call for an international conference, this committee, in effect, founded the Red Cross. Dunant, pouring his money and time into the cause, traveled over most of Europe obtaining promises from governments to send representatives. The conference, held from October 26 to 29, with thirty-nine delegates from sixteen nations attending, approved some sweeping resolutions and laid the groundwork for a gathering of plenipotentiaries. On August 22, 1864, twelve nations signed an international treaty, commonly known as the Geneva Convention, agreeing to guarantee neutrality to sanitary personnel, to expedite supplies for their use, and to adopt a special identifying emblem - in virtually all instances a red cross on a field of white.Dunant had transformed a personal idea into an international treaty. But his work was not finished. He approved the efforts to extend the scope of the Red Cross to cover naval personnel in wartime, and in peacetime to alleviate the hardships caused by natural catastrophes. In 1866 he wrote a brochure called the Universal and International Society for the Revival of the Orient, setting forth a plan to create a neutral colony in Palestine. In 1867 he produced a plan for a publishing venture called an «International and Universal Library» to be composed of the great masterpieces of all time. In 1872 he convened a conference to establish the «Alliance universelle de l'ordre et de la civilisation» which was to consider the need for an international convention on the handling of prisoners of war and for the settling of international disputes by courts of arbitration rather than by war.The eight years from 1867 to 1875 proved to be a sharp contrast to those of 1859-1867. In 1867 Dunant was bankrupt. The water rights had not been granted, the company had been mismanaged in North Africa, and Dunant himself had been concentrating his attention on humanitarian pursuits, not on business ventures. After the disaster, which involved many of his Geneva friends, Dunant was no longer welcome in Genevan society. Within a few years he was literally living at the level of the beggar. There were times, he says, when he dined on a crust of bread, blackened his coat with ink, whitened his collar with chalk, slept out of doors.For the next twenty years, from 1875 to 1895, Dunant disappeared into solitude. After brief stays in various places, he settled down in Heiden, a small Swiss village. Here a village teacher named Wilhelm Sonderegger found him in 1890 and informed the world that Dunant was alive, but the world took little note. Because he was ill, Dunant was moved in 1892 to the hospice at Heiden. And here, in Room 12, he spent the remaining eighteen years of his life. Not, however, as an unknown. After 1895 when he was once more rediscovered, the world heaped prizes and awards upon him.Despite the prizes and the honors, Dunant did not move from Room 12. Upon his death, there was no funeral ceremony, no mourners, no cortege. In accordance with his wishes he was carried to his grave.Dunant had not spent any of the prize monies he had received. He bequeathed some legacies to those who had cared for him in the village hospital, endowed a «free bed» that was to be available to the sick among the poorest people in the village, and left the remainder to philanthropic enterprises in Norway and Switzerland.
That bio (from the Nobel site) is much kinder than the Wiki entry:
The President of the Geneva Society for Public Welfare, jurist Gustave Moynier, made the book and its suggestions the topic of the February 9, 1863 meeting of the organization. Dunant's recommendations were examined and positively assessed by the members. They created a five-person Committee to further pursue the possibility of their implementation and made Dunant one of the members. The others were Moynier, the Swiss army general Henri Dufour, and doctors Louis Appia and Théodore Maunoir. Their first meeting on February 17, 1863 is now considered the founding date of the International Committee of the Red Cross.From early on, Moynier and Dunant had increasing disagreements and conflicts regarding their respective visions and plans. Moynier considered Dunant's idea to establish neutrality protections for care providers implausible and advised Dunant not to insist upon this concept. However, Dunant continued to advocate this position in his travels and conversations with high-ranking political and military figures. This intensified the personal conflict between Moynier, who took a rather pragmatic approach to the project, and Dunant who was the visionary idealist among the five, and led to efforts by Moynier to attack Dunant and his bid for leadership.In October 1863, 14 states took part in a meeting in Geneva organized by the committee to discuss the improvement of care for wounded soldiers. Dunant himself, however, was only a protocol leader because of Moynier's efforts to diminish his role. A year later, a diplomatic conference organized by the Swiss Parliament led to the signing of the first Geneva Convention by 12 states. Dunant, again, was only in charge of organizing accommodation for the attendees.Dunant's businesses in Algeria had suffered, partially because of his devotion to his humanistic ideals. In April 1867, the bankruptcy of the financial firm Crédit Genevois led to a scandal involving Dunant. He was forced to declare bankruptcy and was condemned by the Geneva Trade Court on August 17, 1868 for deceptive practices in the bankruptcies. Due to their investments in the firm, his family and many of his friends were also heavily affected by the downfall of the company. The social outcry in Geneva, a city deeply rooted in Calvinist traditions, also led to calls for him to separate himself from the International Committee. On August 25, 1867, he resigned as Secretary and, on September 8, he was fully removed from the Committee. Moynier, who had become President of the Committee in 1864, played a major role in his expulsion.
If these rankings were for the organizations and not the people themselves, the International Committee of the Red Cross and UNICEF probably take the top two spots.In evaluating Dunant, though, I had to factor in that his largest contribution was the germination of an idea. His book inspired and led to the ICRC, but through a committee he did not chair, and would be removed from in less than four years. I cannot give him full credit for the first Geneva Convention either, at least in my estimation. Those factors caused me to discount him somewhat.The biggest factors, however, are the nine individuals in front of him.
 
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:angry:

Right on queue.

Uncle. since you're here:

Once you blessed Art Tatum, I knew what direction you were going in and immediately thought of some virtuosos. How would you have ranked the following (not specifically, just "highly", "well", "mediocre", "low", etc. will suffice)?



Andrés Segovia VERY HIGH

Ella Fitzgerald MID

John Coltrane HIGH

Duke Ellington LOW (A decent musician, but not one of the greats. As a group, his orchestra would have been ranked pretty well. Would have REALLY liked to see him chosen in the composer category).
:yes: And yet you disrespect McLaughlin?!?! McLaughlin has done far more forms of music than Segovia, has worked with more far reaching musicians, and has a rep equal to or above Segovia. The only thing that Segovia has that McLaughlin doesn't is an older, European credibility, which has zero to do with music.



THAT'S IT, UH -- I'M THROUGH WITH YOU!!! BE GONE!!!!
Okay.You got me.

I'll let you in on my thinking here:

McLaughlin would have been ranked in the Top-2 . . . if it had been anybody else that had drafted him . . .
I SAID GOOD DAY, SIR!!!
 
:D

Right on queue.

Uncle. since you're here:

Once you blessed Art Tatum, I knew what direction you were going in and immediately thought of some virtuosos. How would you have ranked the following (not specifically, just "highly", "well", "mediocre", "low", etc. will suffice)?



Andrés Segovia VERY HIGH

Ella Fitzgerald MID

John Coltrane HIGH

Duke Ellington LOW (A decent musician, but not one of the greats. As a group, his orchestra would have been ranked pretty well. Would have REALLY liked to see him chosen in the composer category).
:yes: And yet you disrespect McLaughlin?!?! McLaughlin has done far more forms of music than Segovia, has worked with more far reaching musicians, and has a rep equal to or above Segovia. The only thing that Segovia has that McLaughlin doesn't is an older, European credibility, which has zero to do with music.



THAT'S IT, UH -- I'M THROUGH WITH YOU!!! BE GONE!!!!
Okay.You got me.

I'll let you in on my thinking here:

McLaughlin would have been ranked in the Top-2 . . . if it had been anybody else that had drafted him . . .
I SAID GOOD DAY, SIR!!!
:angry:
 
If these rankings were for the organizations and not the people themselves, the International Committee of the Red Cross and UNICEF probably take the top two spots.In evaluating Dunant, though, I had to factor in that his largest contribution was the germination of an idea. His book inspired and led to the ICRC, but through a committee he did not chair, and would be removed from in less than four years. I cannot give him full credit for the first Geneva Convention either, at least in my estimation. Those factors caused me to discount him somewhat.The biggest factors, however, are the nine individuals in front of him.
The ideas and theories are the heart and soul of something actually happening. If not for the idea, there is no accomplishment. If not for the idea, there is no success. The idea is the launching pad that generates greatness.
 
Orange Crush said:
And I'm a little surprised Blackstone is getting 2nd tier treatment from the lawyer. Maybe familiarity breeds contempt?
:angry:I know right? My evil lawyer plan is getting foiled!
 
Humanitarian - Martyr - Saint rankings (continued)

20. Warren Buffett

19. John The Baptist

18. Maurice Pate

17. St. Nicholas

16. Andrei Sakharov

xx. Oskar Schindler (UNRANKED)

14. St Francis of Assisi

13. Helen Keller

12. St Peter

11. Eleanor Roosevelt

10. Henry Dunant

9. Simon Wiesenthal

8. Martin Luther King

7. William Wilberforce

6. Desmond Tutu

5. Mother Teresa

4. Joan of Arc

3. Jonas Salk

Tier 1

2. Humanitarian Florence Nightingale

Humanitarian

(John Maddens Lunchbox 11.13/213th pick - 7th of category) post #4149

Wiki bio

"The Lady of the Lamp

Florence Nightingale is the founder of modern nursing. She transformed nursing into a respectable profession and set the standards for clean, safe hospitals in the world. Florence is honored as the first great nurse of the world. Her picture hangs on the wall in many hospitals.

Florence went to the Institute of Deaconesses in Kaiserswerth, Germany, to learn about nursing. At this time, nurses learned through experience, not through training. Florence treated sick people, distributed medicine, and assisted during operations.

In 1854, England entered the Crimean War. Florence and a team of 38 nurses went to the Crimea (near Turkey) to help the wounded soldiers. The military hospitals were dirty and run down. Florence made sanitary improvements which helped bring the death rate down from 40% to 2%.

Florence was kind and gentle with the soldiers. She would talk with them and comfort them as she made her rounds. This gave the soldiers hope. When Florence made her rounds at night, she carried a lamp with her to light her way and became known as "The Lady with the Lamp."

During Florence's time, the hospitals were overcrowded, poorly run, and disease infested. They were doing more harm than good. Florence thought hospitals should help patients, not hurt them. This was a revolutionary idea at the time.

Florence wrote Notes on Hospitals explaining how to make improvements to hospitals. She believed hospitals needed better ventilation, more windows, improved drainage, and less cramped conditions. With Florence's guidance, hospitals became clean and sanitary places where lives were saved, not lost.

Florence also became an expert on designing hospitals. Foreign rulers sought her advice when building their hospitals. Soon, hospitals throughout the world were being built according to her ideas.

Today, we still see how Florence has improved hospitals. The flowers, recreation rooms, and bright wards are an influence of Florence's work.

Florence thought nurses should learn through both experience and training. In 1860, Florence opened the first training school for nurses. It was called the Nightingale Training School, and the nurses were called Nightingale Nurses. Today, the Nightingale Nurses carry on Florence's work of caring for the sick and the poor.

Florence created high standards for the nursing profession. These standards helped transform nursing into the respectable profession we know today. Florence's writings continue to provide excellent resources for nurses and health care providers. Her book, Notes on Nursing, spells out the principles of nursing.

The founder of nursing. Nufced.

The bio for the number one Humanitarian is ridicuously long. It is also worthwhile to read about one of the finest men to ever walk the face of this planet.

1. Albert Schweitzer

Humanitarian

(thatguy 6.06/106th pick - 4th of category) post #2592

Albert Schweitzer (14 January 1875 – 4 September 1965) was a German theologian, musician, philosopher, and physician. He was born in Kaysersberg in the province of Elsass-Lothringen (Alsace-Lorraine) of the German Empire. Schweitzer challenged both the secular view of Jesus as depicted by historical-critical methodology current at his time in certain academic circles, as well the traditional Christian view, depicting a Jesus Christ who expected and predicted the imminent end of the world. He received the 1952 Nobel Peace Prize in 1953 for his philosophy of "Reverence for Life", expressed in many ways, but most famously in founding and sustaining the Albert Schweitzer Hospital in Lambaréné, now in Gabon, west central Africa (then French Equatorial Africa). As a music scholar and organist, he studied the music of German composer Johann Sebastian Bach and influenced the Organ reform movement (Orgelbewegung).

Schweitzer's passionate quest was to discover a universal ethical philosophy, anchored in a universal reality, and make it directly available to all of humanity. This is reflected in some of his sayings, such as:

"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."

"I don't know what your destiny will be, but one thing I do know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who have sought and found how to serve."

Medicine

At the age of 30, in 1905, he answered the call of "The Society Of The Evangelist Missions of Paris" who were looking for a Medical Doctor. However, the committee of this (Roman Catholic) French Missionary Society was not ready to accept his offer, considering that his Lutheran theology was "incorrect". He could easily have obtained a place in a German Evangelical mission, but wished to follow the original call despite the doctrinal difficulties. Amid a hail of protests from his friends, family and colleagues, he resigned his post and re-entered the University as a student in a punishing seven-year course towards the degree of a Doctorate in Medicine, a subject in which he had little knowledge or previous aptitude. He planned to spread the Gospel by the example of his Christian labor of healing, rather than through the verbal process of preaching, and believed that this service should be acceptable within any branch of Christian teaching.

Even in his study of medicine, and through his clinical course, Schweitzer pursued the ideal of the philosopher-scientist. By extreme application and hard work he completed his studies successfully at the end of 1911. His medical degree dissertation was another work on the historical Jesus, The Psychiatric Study of Jesus. In June 1912 he married Helene Bresslau, daughter of the Jewish pan-Germanist historian Harry Bresslau.

In 1912, now armed with a medical degree, Schweitzer made a definite proposal to go as a medical doctor to work at his own expense in the Paris Missionary Society's mission at Lambaréné on the Ogooué river, in what is now the Gabon, in Africa (then a French colony). He refused to attend a committee to inquire into his doctrine, but met each committee member personally and was at last accepted. By concerts and other fund-raising he was ready to equip a small hospital, taking satisfaction that Bach himself had assisted in the enterprise. In Spring 1913 he and his wife set off to establish a hospital near an already existing mission post. The site was nearly 200 miles (14 days by raft) upstream from the mouth of the Ogooé at Port Gentil (Cape Lopez) (and so accessible to external communications), but downstream of most tributaries, so that internal communications within Gabon converged towards Lambaréné.

In the first nine months he and his wife had about 2,000 patients to examine, some traveling many days and hundreds of kilometers to reach him. In addition to injuries he was often treating severe sandflea and crawcraw sores (washing with mercuric chloride), framboesia (using arseno-benzol injections), tropical eating sores (cleaning and potassium permanganate), heart disease (treated with digitalin), tropical dysentery (emetine (syrup of ipecac) and arseno-benzol), tropical malaria (quinine and Arrhenal (arsenic)), sleeping sickness, treated at that time with atoxyl, leprosy (chaulmoogra oil), fevers, strangulated hernias (surgery), necrosis, abdominal tumours and chronic constipation and nicotine poisoning, while also attempting to deal with deliberate poisonings, fetishism and fear of cannibalism among the Mbahouin.

Frau Schweitzer was anesthetist for surgical operations, using chloroform and omnipon, a synthesized morphine derivative. After briefly occupying a shed formerly used as a chicken hut, in autumn 1913 they built their first hospital of corrugated iron, with two 13-foot rooms (consulting room and operating theatre) and with a dispensary and sterilizing room in spaces below the broad eaves. The waiting room and dormitory (42 by 20 feet), were built like native huts, of unhewn logs, along a 30-yard path leading from the hospital to the landing-place. The Schweitzers had their own bungalow, and employed as their assistant Joseph, a French-speaking Galoa (Mpongwe) who first came as a patient.

When World War I broke out in summer of 1914, Schweitzer and his wife, Germans in a French colony, were put under supervision at Lambaréné (where work continued) by the French military. In 1917, exhausted by over four years' work and by tropical anaemia, they were taken to Bordeaux and interned first in Garaison, and then from March 1918 in Saint-Rémy-de-Provence. In July 1918, after having been transferred via Switzerland to his home in the Alsace, he was a free man again. At this time Schweitzer, born a German citizen, obtained French nationality. Then, working as medical assistant and assistant-pastor in Strasbourg, he advanced his project on The Philosophy of Civilization, which had occupied his mind since 1900. By 1920, his health recovering, he was giving organ recitals and doing other fund-raising work to repay borrowings and raise funds for returning to Gabon. In 1922 he delivered the Dale Memorial Lectures in Oxford University, and from these in the following year appeared Volumes I and II of his great work, The Decay and Restoration of Civilization and Civilization and Ethics. The two remaining volumes, on The World-View of Reverence for Life and a fourth on the Civilized State, were never completed.

In 1924 he returned without his wife but with an Oxford undergraduate, Noel Gillespie, as assistant. Everything was heavily decayed and building and doctoring progressed together for months. He now had salvarsan for treating syphilitic ulcers and framboesia. Additional medical staff, nurse (Miss) Kottmann and Dr. Victor Nessmann, joined him in 1924, and Dr. Mark Lauterberg in 1925; the growing hospital was manned by native orderlies. Later Dr. Trensz replaced Nessmann, and Martha Lauterberg and Hans Muggenstorm joined them. Joseph also returned. In 1925-6 new hospital buildings were constructed, and also a ward for white patients, so that the site became like a village. The onset of famine and a dysentery epidemic created fresh problems. Much of the building work was carried out with the help of local people and patients. Drug advances for sleeping sickness included Germanin and tryparsamide. Dr. Trensz conducted experiments showing that the non-amoebic strain of dysentery was caused by a paracholera vibrion (facultative anaerobic bacteria). With the new hospital built and the medical team established, Schweitzer returned to Europe in 1927, this time leaving a functioning hospital at work.

He was there again from 1929-1932. Gradually his opinions and concepts became acknowledged, not only in Europe, but also worldwide. There was a further period of work in 1935. In January 1937 he returned again to Lambaréné, and continued working there throughout the Second War.

Missionary Work in Africa

Schweitzer considered his work as a medical missionary in Africa to be his response to Jesus' call to become "fishers of men" but also as a small recompense for the historic guilt of European colonizers:

"Who can describe the injustice and cruelties that in the course of centuries they [the coloured peoples] have suffered at the hands of Europeans? … If a record could be compiled of all that has happened between the white and the coloured races, it would make a book containing numbers of pages which the reader would have to turn over unread because their contents would be too horrible.

Rather than being a supporter of colonialism, Schweitzer was one of its harshest critics. In a sermon that he preached on 6 January 1905, before he had told anyone of his plans to dedicate the rest of his life to work as a doctor in Africa, he said:

"Our culture divides people into two classes: civilized men, a title bestowed on the persons who do the classifying; and others, who have only the human form, who may perish or go to the dogs for all the "civilized men" care.

"Oh, this "noble" culture of ours! It speaks so piously of human dignity and human rights and then disregards this dignity and these rights of countless millions and treads them underfoot, only because they live overseas or because their skins are of different color or because they cannot help themselves. This culture does not know how hollow and miserable and full of glib talk it is, how common it looks to those who follow it across the seas and see what it has done there, and this culture has no right to speak of personal dignity and human rights…

"I will not enumerate all the crimes that have been committed under the pretext of justice. People robbed native inhabitants of their land, made slaves of them, let loose the scum of mankind upon them. Think of the atrocities that were perpetrated upon people made subservient to us, how systematically we have ruined them with our alcoholic "gifts", and everything else we have done…We decimate them, and then, by the stroke of a pen, we take their land so they have nothing left at all…

"If all this oppression and all this sin and shame are perpetrated under the eye of the German God, or the American God, or the British God, and if our states do not feel obliged first to lay aside their claim to be "Christian" — then the name of Jesus is blasphemed and made a mockery. And the Christianity of our states is blasphemed and made a mockery before those poor people. The name of Jesus has become a curse, and our Christianity — yours and mine — has become a falsehood and a disgrace, if the crimes are not atoned for in the very place where they were instigated. For every person who committed an atrocity in Jesus' name, someone must step in to help in Jesus' name; for every person who robbed, someone must bring a replacement; for everyone who cursed, someone must bless.

"And now, when you speak about missions, let this be your message: We must make atonement for all the ter­rible crimes we read of in the newspapers. We must make atonement for the still worse ones, which we do not read about in the papers, crimes that are shrouded in the silence of the jungle night…"

Schweitzer was nonetheless still sometimes accused of being paternalistic or colonialist in his attitude towards Africans, and in some ways his views did differ from many liberals of the 1960s. For instance, he thought Gabonese independence came too early, without adequate education or accommodation to local circumstances. Edgar Berman quotes Schweitzer speaking these lines in 1960:

"No society can go from the primeval directly to an industrial state without losing the leavening that time and an agricultural period allow."

####has quoted Schweitzer as saying: "The African is indeed my brother but my junior brother," which #### criticized him for, though #### seems to acknowledge that Schweitzer's use of the word "brother" at all was, for a European of the early 20th century, an unusual expression of human solidarity between whites and blacks. Later in his life, Schweitzer was quoted as saying: "The time for speaking of older and younger brothers has passed."

Philosophy

Reverence for Life

The keynote of Schweitzer's personal philosophy (which he considered to be his greatest contribution to mankind) was the idea of Reverence for Life ("Ehrfurcht vor dem Leben"). He thought that Western civilization was decaying because it had abandoned affirmation of (and respect for) life as its ethical foundation.

In the Preface to Civilization and Ethics (1923) he presents the view that Western philosophy from Descartes to Kant had set out to define the objective, material world in the expectation that humanity would be found to have a special significance and value within it. But no proof of this was found, and as a result the rationalist life-affirmation of the Age of Enlightenment began to evaporate. So a split occurred between this materialist world-view, as knowledge, and the life-view, understood as will or volition, and expressed in the pessimist philosophies from Schopenhauer onward. Scientific materialism (exemplified in the arguments of #### and Darwin) revealed an objective world-process which was devoid of ethics, entirely an expression of the will-to-live.

Schweitzer stated that mankind must accept this reality that the objective material world is ethically neutral. Therefore it was necessary for Mankind to affirm a new Enlightenment by the rebirth of spiritual rationalism, by giving priority to volition, to ethical will as life-view, in order to define and build the structures of civilization. Mankind must choose to create the moral structures of civilization: the world-view must derive from the life-view, not vice-versa. Because the world is an expression of will-to-life, respect for life has to become the highest principle.

Implications

In a similar exaltation of life to that of ####, Schweitzer followed the same line as that of Leo Tolstoy. He wrote: "True philosophy must start from the most immediate and comprehensive fact of consciousness, and this may be formulated as follows: 'I am life which wills to live, and I exist in the midst of life which wills to live'."

Life and love in his view are based on, and follow out of the same principle: respect for every manifestation of life, and a personal, spiritual relationship towards the universe. Ethics, according to Schweitzer, consists in the compulsion to show toward the will-to-live of each and every being the same reverence as one does to one's own. Circumstances where we apparently fail to satisfy this compulsion should not lead us to defeatism, since the will-to-live renews itself again and again, as an outcome of an evolutionary necessity and a phenomenon with a spiritual dimension.

However, as Schweitzer himself pointed out, it is neither impossible nor difficult to spend one's life and not follow it: the history of world philosophies and religions shows many instances of denial of the principle of reverence for life. He points[citation needed] to the prevailing philosophy in the European Middle Ages, and the Indian Brahminic philosophy as examples. Nevertheless, he contends that this kind of attitude lacks genuineness.

The will to live is naturally both parasitic and antagonistic towards other forms of life. Only in the thinking being has the will to live become conscious of other wills to live, and desirous of solidarity with it. This solidarity, however, cannot be brought about, because human life does not escape the puzzling and horrible circumstance that it must live at the cost of other life. But as an ethical being one strives to escape whenever possible from this necessity, and to put a stop to this disunion of the Will to live, so far as it is within one's power.

Schweitzer advocated the concept of reverence for life widely throughout his entire life. The historical Enlightenment waned and corrupted itself, Schweitzer held, because it has not been well enough grounded in thought, but compulsively followed the ethical will-to-live. Hence, he looked forward to a renewed and more profound Renaissance and Enlightenment, "in the course of which humanity will discover that the ethical impulse is the highest truth and the highest purposiveness..." Albert Schweitzer nourished hope in a humankind that is more profoundly aware of its position in the Universe. His optimism was based in "belief in truth". He persistently emphasized the necessity to think, rather than merely acting on basis of passing impulses or by following the most widespread opinions, common among those found ignoring the conflationary elements so apparent in religious identity.

Respect for life, resulting from contemplation on one's own conscious will to live, leads the individual to live in the service of other people and of every living creature. Schweitzer was much respected for putting his theory into practice in his own life.

Nobel Peace Prize and Other Honors

The Nobel Peace Prize of 1952 was awarded to Dr Albert Schweitzer. His "The Problem of Peace" lecture is considered one of the best speeches ever given. From 1952 until his death he worked against nuclear tests and nuclear weapons with Albert Einstein and ####. In 1957 and 1958 he broadcast four speeches over Radio Oslo which were published in Peace or Atomic War. In 1957, Schweitzer was one of the founders of The Committee for a Sane Nuclear Policy. On 23 April 1957, Dr. Schweitzer made his "Declaration of Conscience" speech, it was broadcast to the world over Radio Oslo, pleading for the abolition of nuclear weapons. He ended his speech, saying:

"The end of further experiments with atom bombs would be like the early sunrays of hope which suffering humanity is longing for."

In 1955 he was made an honorary member of the Order of Merit by #### of the United Kingdom. He was also a chevalier of the Military and Hospitaller Order of #### of Jerusalem. Schweitzer died on 4 September 1965 at his beloved hospital in Lambaréné, Gabon. His grave, on the banks of the Ogowe River, is marked by a cross he made himself.

The Albert Schweitzer Fellowship sends third-year medical students to spend three months working as Fellows at the Albert Schweitzer Hospital in Lambaréné, Gabon on clinical rotations.

Sayings

* "Do something wonderful, people may imitate it."

* "Therefore search and see if there is not some place where you may invest your humanity."

* "There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."

* "Constant kindness can accomplish much. As the sun makes ice melt, kindness causes misunderstanding, mistrust and hostility to evaporate."

* "A man is truly ethical only when he obeys the compulsion to help all life which he is able to assist, and shrinks from injuring anything that lives."

* "Example is not the main thing in influencing others. It is the only thing."

Congrats to all. Really great picks in this category, it has been a pleasure.

:angry:

 
Mario Kart said:
BobbyLayne said:
If these rankings were for the organizations and not the people themselves, the International Committee of the Red Cross and UNICEF probably take the top two spots.In evaluating Dunant, though, I had to factor in that his largest contribution was the germination of an idea. His book inspired and led to the ICRC, but through a committee he did not chair, and would be removed from in less than four years. I cannot give him full credit for the first Geneva Convention either, at least in my estimation. Those factors caused me to discount him somewhat.The biggest factors, however, are the nine individuals in front of him.
The ideas and theories are the heart and soul of something actually happening. If not for the idea, there is no accomplishment. If not for the idea, there is no success. The idea is the launching pad that generates greatness.
I agree 100%. That is why I ranked him as highly as I did.
 
Great job on your rankings and writeups BL. You clearly did your homework and put a helluva lot of thought into each ranking. And I'm not just saying that because you ranked Albert #1, but it does help. Seriously, awesome awesome job. :angry:

 
I really did not think Mother Theresa would do that well.
It was a tough call putting her that high; I've read all of Hitchens attacks, and he makes some good points.It was, in my mind, the absolute highest place I could have put her.We can discuss further if anyone feels it is necessary, but I share the feelings of many here that she is vastly overrated.That said, I gave her a boost for being an icon, and she is arguably the biggest celebrity Humanitarian of all-time.I'll hold off on saying more until I see if folks really think it warrants a full debate.
 
I really did not think Mother Theresa would do that well.
:thumbup: It should have been #1 for this reason alone.
:) That made my day when I clicked on that a few days ago.

:wall:

I also took into consideration that it is probably she will be steamrolled into sainthood in my lifetime. I probably gave more credit to the Martyr/Saint aspect of these rankings than most non-believers would. I know it may not make sense to some, but I believe that heroic and symbolic figures are an important inspiration to make all of us want to be a better person. It's better those heroes and symbols have a basis in truth, but...when the legend becomes fact, print the legend.

:)

Mother Teresa, the deeper you dig, is a somewhat disappointing symbol. A lot of folks are able to look beyond that or ignore it. Honestly, I wish I could as well. The truth isn't always enjoyable.

 
I really did not think Mother Theresa would do that well.
It was a tough call putting her that high; I've read all of Hitchens attacks, and he makes some good points.It was, in my mind, the absolute highest place I could have put her.We can discuss further if anyone feels it is necessary, but I share the feelings of many here that she is vastly overrated.That said, I gave her a boost for being an icon, and she is arguably the biggest celebrity Humanitarian of all-time.I'll hold off on saying more until I see if folks really think it warrants a full debate.
honestly, I think you over-valued humanitarians vs. saints/martyrs... :sadbanana:but to be fair, so did almost every single other person in the draft...
 
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Humanitarian - Martyr - Saint rankings

xx. Oskar Schindler (UNRANKED)

19. Warren Buffett

18. John The Baptist

17. Maurice Pate

16. St. Nicholas

15. Andrei Sakharov

14. St Francis of Assisi

13. Helen Keller

12. St Peter

11. Eleanor Roosevelt

10. Henry Dunant

9. Simon Wiesenthal

8. Martin Luther King

7. William Wilberforce

6. Desmond Tutu

5. Mother Teresa

4. Joan of Arc

3. Jonas Salk

2. Florence Nightingale

1. Albert Schweitzer

 
Humanitarian - Martyr - Saint rankings

xx. Oskar Schindler (UNRANKED)

19. Warren Buffett

18. John The Baptist

17. Maurice Pate

16. St. Nicholas

15. Andrei Sakharov

14. St Francis of Assisi

13. Helen Keller

12. St Peter

11. Eleanor Roosevelt

10. Henry Dunant

9. Simon Wiesenthal

8. Martin Luther King

7. William Wilberforce

6. Desmond Tutu

5. Mother Teresa

4. Joan of Arc

3. Jonas Salk

2. Florence Nightingale

1. Albert Schweitzer
There really are only 3 martyrs on the list, those in bold and John the Baptist might not technically be a martyr. There's a big difference between a saint and a martyr and certainly a humanitarian.Salk was a scientist who found a preventative for a very serious disease, but as important as he was, he wasn't really a "humanitarian", at least by my definition. I'll accept Nurse Nightengale and Dr. Schweitzer ahead of the Maid of Orleans, but just barely. Vive le France!

 
Going into the last category, Usual21 and Herbert the Hippo are tied for last place! :lmao:
Where am I?Hoping for 10th...
Without accounting for the humanitarian/saint/martyr rankings (since Schindler's spot hasn't been figured out yet), here's what I've got:Doug B - 272Arsenal of Doom - 254FUBAR – 238BobbyLayne - 235Thorn - 234Mad Sweeney - 230Thatguy - 217Andy Dufresne - 213Yankee23Fan – 208John Madden's Lunchbox - 201Abrantes - 198Mario Kart - 195Acer FC – 191DC Thunder - 183Higgins - 172Larry Boy - 169Mister CIA – 164Big Rocks - 153Herbert The Hippo - 144Usual21 - 135Wait - I'm lazy and didn't tally in the scientist rankings either. :popcorn:
 
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Here's what I've got (up to date as of right now):

Rk Team JudgeRkSum Points Value

1 DougB 142 299 74

2 Arsenal of Doom 169 272 34

3 BobbyLayne 185 256 45

4 thatguy 188 253 42

5 Mad Sweeney 190 251 29

6 FUBAR 192 249 16

7 Thorn 195 246 18

8 Acer FC 207 234 25

9 JM's Lunchbox 211 230 -6

10 Yankee23fan 217 224 22

11 Abrantes 220 221 5

12 Andy Dufresne 221 220 -1

13 Mario Kart 232 209 -16

14 DC Thunder 233 208 -13

15 higgins 244 197 -22

16 Mister CIA 256 185 -40

17 Big Rocks 258 183 -38

18 Larry Boy 263 178 -34

19 Usual21 285 156 -66

20 Herbert the Hippo 285 156 -73

 
Intellectual is tough. The top 10 are haunting me. Maybe I should just post my 20-11 now so that I can be attacked unmercilessly while writing 10-1......

 
Mother Teresa, the deeper you dig, is a somewhat disappointing symbol. A lot of folks are able to look beyond that or ignore it. Honestly, I wish I could as well. The truth isn't always enjoyable.
Yet she's 5th? :lmao:
I did a poor job of articulating that; I just wanted to add that nearly everybody in the category was disappointing at some level. Nearly all had flaws and were very human. A lot of times when you dig deeper you find disappointing facts that don't quite match the legend or the myth. Mother Teresa is hardly alone in that aspect.She was also harder to judge because we don't have a long perspective on her yet; history and remembrance evolve over time. She may fade from our estimation, or she may rise even higher. Only time will tell.
 
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Here's what I've got (up to date as of right now):Rk Team JudgeRkSum Points Value1 DougB 142 299 742 Arsenal of Doom 169 272 343 BobbyLayne 185 256 454 thatguy 188 253 425 Mad Sweeney 190 251 296 FUBAR 192 249 167 Thorn 195 246 188 Acer FC 207 234 259 JM's Lunchbox 211 230 -610 Yankee23fan 217 224 2211 Abrantes 220 221 512 Andy Dufresne 221 220 -113 Mario Kart 232 209 -1614 DC Thunder 233 208 -1315 higgins 244 197 -2216 Mister CIA 256 185 -4017 Big Rocks 258 183 -3818 Larry Boy 263 178 -3419 Usual21 285 156 -6620 Herbert the Hippo 285 156 -73
Well, I'm glad to see I'm not in danger of relegation to The Huddle, although if I'd gotten a fair assessment of Mao and a couple of other unconventional placments, I'd move up a spot or two. :lmao:
 
Here's what I've got (up to date as of right now):Rk Team JudgeRkSum Points Value1 DougB 142 299 742 Arsenal of Doom 169 272 343 BobbyLayne 185 256 454 thatguy 188 253 425 Mad Sweeney 190 251 296 FUBAR 192 249 167 Thorn 195 246 188 Acer FC 207 234 259 JM's Lunchbox 211 230 -610 Yankee23fan 217 224 2211 Abrantes 220 221 512 Andy Dufresne 221 220 -113 Mario Kart 232 209 -1614 DC Thunder 233 208 -1315 higgins 244 197 -2216 Mister CIA 256 185 -4017 Big Rocks 258 183 -3818 Larry Boy 263 178 -3419 Usual21 285 156 -6620 Herbert the Hippo 285 156 -73
Well, I'm glad to see I'm not in danger of relegation to The Huddle, although if I'd gotten a fair assessment of Mao and a couple of other unconventional placments, I'd move up a spot or two. :lmao:
I was chasing Doug for a minute there, then I took it on the chin in Humanitarian and Rebel categories.
 
BL, you did a fantastic job, and not just because you agreed with me about Salk. Your writeups have been terrific.

And now you've given me a big dilemma, which I'm sure was your intention. What to do about Oskar Schindler and Raoul Wallenberg? I've given this a lot of thought.

My first problem is, while I commend BL's effort, I have some disagreements with this rankings, and this is what's giving me a headache. With Galileo and Arsenal's two picks, it was relatively easy, because I generally knew where in the field of 20 they belonged, and you'll notice neither drafter disagreed with me. But in this case, I think:

1. Simon Weisenthal is far too high. I don't really even consider him a humanitarian, more like a policeman. In fact, an unfriendly biography I have browsed called Nazi Hunter doesn't make him out to be too nice a guy at all; an egotist who took way too much credit for the Eichmann kidnapping which was undeserved. People have an image of this nice old man (played by Lawrence Olivier in The Boys From Brazil) hunting down evil, and it's not so cut and dried. I don't want Oskar Schindler, a true humanitarian, to be placed below Weisenthal.

2. Eleanor Roosevelt is too low. BL correctly points out her personal humanitarian efforts, but he doesn't mention what a huge inspiration she was to millions of others. For a period of 30 years she was the world's most admired woman. I don't want Schindler to be above Eleanor.

So my dilemma. Oskar Schindler is, in many ways one of the greatest humanitarians who ever lived, simply because he wasn't a great man to begin with. He was not some brilliant scientist like Schweitzer or Salk with a view towards helping mankind, nor was he a visionary like Gandhi or MLK who desired to change the world. Nor was Schindler an especially religious person like so many of the people on the list, who's belief in the Lord gave them strength to do what they knew to be right. Schindler was none of these; he was just an average joe who wanted to get rich. And almost by accident, he found himself connected to a situation that to him was morally unacceptable. When it would have been no trouble at all to look the other way, he didn't.

As an analogy, (though it doesn't fit, nothing would EVER fit.) I offer this story that my grandfather told me a few years back. He was a Jew who spent the war years in Los Angeles, and worked for Lockheed as one of their purchasing VPs. Prior to the war one of his employees had been a Japanese-American accountant. This man approached my grandfather in the spring of 1942, begging for his help. He and his whole family were being sent to an internment camp, and he was hoping my grandfather might try to intercede on his behalf. My grandfather refused; "I just didn't want to get involved," he told me. "It probably wouldn't have done any good anyhow, and if it had gotten around that I was a *** lover, who knows? Maybe I would have lost my job." I've never forgotten this story, and while it makes me judge my grandfather harshly, I often wonder how much courage I would have had.

Oskar Schindler, in a much more perilous situation, chose to intercede. Is he as important a humanitarian as Eleanor Roosevelt? No. But I'm going to put him above her anyhow, because I simply can't place him any lower. Schindler gets the spot of #10; everone else moves down one slot. I'm not in love with this solution, but it's the best I can come up with.

And this brings us back to Raoul Wallenberg, which I promised to correct today. While Schindler saved 1,000 lives, Wallenberg saved 100,000. Sheer numbers aren't everything, but this has to be given due consideration. Were I ranking them, I would have to rank Wallenberg above Schindler for this reason alone. So I am moving Wallenberg up in the Wildcards to share in the #8 spot, which will give him 13 points overall.

I hope everyone considers these rankings to be fair; anyhow, they're the best I can do.

Finally, Orange Crush has urged me, because I raised a couple of people up in my WC rankings, to lower a few others, just to keep things even. I've thought about this, and decided against it. I see no reason to punish drafters simply because I wasn't fair to other drafters. My Wildcard rankings weren't even to begin with, though they are much more so than in the G.A.D., where I was pretty wild. It will have to be uneven for everyone.

 
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since the final judge lists should prolly be in today & voting wont start til next wk, ive decided to keep the fires burning by doing a round-by-round recap over the wkend. i will listen by PM to any advocacy in what might be drafters' last chance to get attention drawn to their pix, but i'll warn you - i havent changed my mind about anything since '95. nufced

 
I anticipate having my entire rankings up in about 30 minutes. I have the write ups pretty much done - got nothing done in the office today - but I keep switching a few people around. A lot.

 
since the final judge lists should prolly be in today & voting wont start til next wk, ive decided to keep the fires burning by doing a round-by-round recap over the wkend. i will listen by PM to any advocacy in what might be drafters' last chance to get attention drawn to their pix, but i'll warn you - i havent changed my mind about anything since '95. nufced
That's great, WP! I really enjoyed reading this in the G.A.D. and look forward to it again. Don't worry, I'll let you know when you're wrong and you can correct it :lmao:
 
here is the adjusted scientist list:1. Isaac Newton2. Albert Einstein3. Galileo Galilei4. Charles Darwin5. James Maxwell6. Niels Bohr7. Louis Pasteur8. Michael Faraday9. Andreas Vesalius10. Leonhard Euler11. Alhazen12. Euclid13. Alexander Fleming14. Antoine-Laurent de Lavoisier 15. Francis Crick16. Johann Carl Gauss17. Muhammad ibn Musa Khwarizmi 18. Dmitri Mendeleev19. Archimedes20. Hippocrates
Needs more LINUS PAULING. He'd go no lower than 13 on that list.
 
Wikkid Writeups: :lmao:

Yankee Rankings: :lmao:

Really wanted a y-word for rankings to keep the alliteration thing going, but no luck.

 
BL, you did a fantastic job, and not just because you agreed with me about Salk. Your writeups have been terrific.

And now you've given me a big dilemma, which I'm sure was your intention. What to do about Oskar Schindler and Raoul Wallenberg? I've given this a lot of thought.

My first problem is, while I commend BL's effort, I have some disagreements with this rankings, and this is what's giving me a headache. With Galileo and Arsenal's two picks, it was relatively easy, because I generally knew where in the field of 20 they belonged, and you'll notice neither drafter disagreed with me. But in this case, I think:

1. Simon Weisenthal is far too high. I don't really even consider him a humanitarian, more like a policeman. In fact, an unfriendly biography I have browsed called Nazi Hunter doesn't make him out to be too nice a guy at all; an egotist who took way too much credit for the Eichmann kidnapping which was undeserved. People have an image of this nice old man (played by Lawrence Olivier in The Boys From Brazil) hunting down evil, and it's not so cut and dried. I don't want Oskar Schindler, a true humanitarian, to be placed below Weisenthal.

2. Eleanor Roosevelt is too low. BL correctly points out her personal humanitarian efforts, but he doesn't mention what a huge inspiration she was to millions of others. For a period of 30 years she was the world's most admired woman. I don't want Schindler to be above Eleanor.

So my dilemma. Oskar Schindler is, in many ways one of the greatest humanitarians who ever lived, simply because he wasn't a great man to begin with. He was not some brilliant scientist like Schweitzer or Salk with a view towards helping mankind, nor was he a visionary like Gandhi or MLK who desired to change the world. Nor was Schindler an especially religious person like so many of the people on the list, who's belief in the Lord gave them strength to do what they knew to be right. Schindler was none of these; he was just an average joe who wanted to get rich. And almost by accident, he found himself connected to a situation that to him was morally unacceptable. When it would have been no trouble at all to look the other way, he didn't.

As an analogy, (though it doesn't fit, nothing would EVER fit.) I offer this story that my grandfather told me a few years back. He was a Jew who spent the war years in Los Angeles, and worked for Lockheed as one of their purchasing VPs. Prior to the war one of his employees had been a Japanese-American accountant. This man approached my grandfather in the spring of 1942, begging for his help. He and his whole family were being sent to an internment camp, and he was hoping my grandfather might try to intercede on his behalf. My grandfather refused; "I just didn't want to get involved," he told me. "It probably wouldn't have done any good anyhow, and if it had gotten around that I was a *** lover, who knows? Maybe I would have lost my job." I've never forgotten this story, and while it makes me judge my grandfather harshly, I often wonder how much courage I would have had.

Oskar Schindler, in a much more perilous situation, chose to intercede. Is he as important a humanitarian as Eleanor Roosevelt? No. But I'm going to put him above her anyhow, because I simply can't place him any lower. Schindler gets the spot of #10; everone else moves down one slot. I'm not in love with this solution, but it's the best I can come up with.

And this brings us back to Raoul Wallenberg, which I promised to correct today. While Schindler saved 1,000 lives, Wallenberg saved 100,000. Sheer numbers aren't everything, but this has to be given due consideration. Were I ranking them, I would have to rank Wallenberg above Schindler for this reason alone. So I am moving Wallenberg up in the Wildcards to share in the #8 spot, which will give him 13 points overall.

I hope everyone considers these rankings to be fair; anyhow, they're the best I can do.

Finally, Orange Crush has urged me, because I raised a couple of people up in my WC rankings, to lower a few others, just to keep things even. I've thought about this, and decided against it. I see no reason to punish drafters simply because I wasn't fair to other drafters. My Wildcard rankings weren't even to begin with, though they are much more so than in the G.A.D., where I was pretty wild. It will have to be uneven for everyone.
:thumbup:
 
here is the adjusted scientist list:1. Isaac Newton2. Albert Einstein3. Galileo Galilei4. Charles Darwin5. James Maxwell6. Niels Bohr7. Louis Pasteur8. Michael Faraday9. Andreas Vesalius10. Leonhard Euler11. Alhazen12. Euclid13. Alexander Fleming14. Antoine-Laurent de Lavoisier 15. Francis Crick16. Johann Carl Gauss17. Muhammad ibn Musa Khwarizmi 18. Dmitri Mendeleev19. Archimedes20. Hippocrates
Needs more LINUS PAULING. He'd go no lower than 13 on that list.
I thought about taking him as a Wild Card, but I kept thinking he'd been taken. Guess he wasn't... Too bad, he should have been.
 
BL, you did a fantastic job, and not just because you agreed with me about Salk. Your writeups have been terrific.

And now you've given me a big dilemma, which I'm sure was your intention...
:thumbup:
[Newman's Apartment](Elaine and Kramer still sit on the couch, awaiting Newman's arbitration.)

NEWMAN: Well, you've both presented very convincing arguments. On the one hand, Elaine, your promise was given in haste. But was it not still a promise? Hmm?

(Kramer looks at Elaine, thinking his arguments have put him one up.)

NEWMAN: And, Kramer, you did provide a service in exchange for compensation. But, does the fee, once paid, not entitle the buyer to some assurance Of reliability? Hmm? Huh? Ahh. These were not easy questions to answer. Not for any man...

(Kramer leans forward to receive the result. Elaine looks as attentive as she can while only being able to look upwards.)

NEWMAN: ...But I have made a decision. (revelatory) We will cut the bike down the middle, and give half to each of you.

ELAINE: (shout) What?! This is your solution?! To ruin the bike?!

(Newman's face drops at her negative reaction. Kramer looks across at the bike, looking worried.)

ELAINE: Alright, fine. Fine. Go ahead. (standing) Cut the stupid thing in half.

KRAMER: No, no, no. Give it to her. I'd rather it belonged to another than see it destroyed. Newman, give it to her, I beg you.

ELAINE: Yeah, yeah, y-yeah.

NEWMAN: Not so fast, Elaine! Only the bike's true owner would rather give it away than see it come to harm. Kramer, the bike is yours!

ELAINE: What?!

KRAMER: Sweet justice. Newman, you are wise.

(Kramer picks up the bike and climbs aboard.)

ELAINE: (frustration) But this isn't fair! Lookit, my neck is still hurting me, and now you have the bike?!

KRAMER: Well, tell it to the judge, honey. I'm going for a ride.

(Kramer opens the door and rides clumsily out, ringing the bell as he goes.)

:lol:

 
BL, you did a fantastic job, and not just because you agreed with me about Salk. Your writeups have been terrific.

And now you've given me a big dilemma, which I'm sure was your intention...
:thumbup:
[Newman's Apartment](Elaine and Kramer still sit on the couch, awaiting Newman's arbitration.)

NEWMAN: Well, you've both presented very convincing arguments. On the one hand, Elaine, your promise was given in haste. But was it not still a promise? Hmm?

(Kramer looks at Elaine, thinking his arguments have put him one up.)

NEWMAN: And, Kramer, you did provide a service in exchange for compensation. But, does the fee, once paid, not entitle the buyer to some assurance Of reliability? Hmm? Huh? Ahh. These were not easy questions to answer. Not for any man...

(Kramer leans forward to receive the result. Elaine looks as attentive as she can while only being able to look upwards.)

NEWMAN: ...But I have made a decision. (revelatory) We will cut the bike down the middle, and give half to each of you.

ELAINE: (shout) What?! This is your solution?! To ruin the bike?!

(Newman's face drops at her negative reaction. Kramer looks across at the bike, looking worried.)

ELAINE: Alright, fine. Fine. Go ahead. (standing) Cut the stupid thing in half.

KRAMER: No, no, no. Give it to her. I'd rather it belonged to another than see it destroyed. Newman, give it to her, I beg you.

ELAINE: Yeah, yeah, y-yeah.

NEWMAN: Not so fast, Elaine! Only the bike's true owner would rather give it away than see it come to harm. Kramer, the bike is yours!

ELAINE: What?!

KRAMER: Sweet justice. Newman, you are wise.

(Kramer picks up the bike and climbs aboard.)

ELAINE: (frustration) But this isn't fair! Lookit, my neck is still hurting me, and now you have the bike?!

KRAMER: Well, tell it to the judge, honey. I'm going for a ride.

(Kramer opens the door and rides clumsily out, ringing the bell as he goes.)

:lol:
:lol:
 
BL, it looks like those 3 extra points I get for Wallenberg put you and me in a tie for 3rd at the moment.

 
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BL, it looks like those 3 extra points I get for Wallenberg put you and me in a tie for 3rd at the moment.
Don't we have to add 11 points for Schindler to his score, as well?OK, I am leaving for several hours, will return early this evening. If Yankee is done by then, I will rank Adam Smith and we will have our final rankings. I'll be able to set up a playoff schedule for next week as well.Also, Larry Boy will be able to give his Judge rankings (I just can't wait for this!)
 
BL, it looks like those 3 extra points I get for Wallenberg put you and me in a tie for 3rd at the moment.
Don't we have to add 11 points for Schindler to his score, as well?OK, I am leaving for several hours, will return early this evening. If Yankee is done by then, I will rank Adam Smith and we will have our final rankings. I'll be able to set up a playoff schedule for next week as well.Also, Larry Boy will be able to give his Judge rankings (I just can't wait for this!)
Touche.
 

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