Mario Kart
Footballguy
hardly. I have no idea where you are getting this from anything I have said. But, to each his own. Think what you want.
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World's Greatest Draft (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
hardly. I have no idea where you are getting this from anything I have said. But, to each his own. Think what you want.
Abrantes
Footballguy
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
I'm not saying either we're good or we're evil to try and simplify things...I'm saying you can't say that we have no good in order to justify the ignoring of almost everything modern in this draft... and then use how great the modern world is to justify all our villains coming from the last 100 years...
I'm not even saying there is anything wrong with downplaying the importance of modern greats, that's human nature... We always think the past is better even when its impossible for it to have been...
I'm saying that claiming that our evil is the most evil because of how good we are makes no sense when we turn around and act like we don't have any good...
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Hey, let's talk about how great my team is. It's made from bits of real Fathers, so you know it's good. Plus, I haven't killed millions of people recently, nor in the distant or recent past.
Leader - Constantine - The Father of the Byzantine Empire
Military - Charles "The Hammer" Martel - The Father of the Father of the Father of Europe
Scientist - Alhazen, The first modern scientist and Father of the Scientific Method
Novelist/short story - Cervantes - The Father of the modern novel
Playwright/Poet - William Shakespeare - The Godfather of Western Literature
Painter - Vincent Van Gogh - The Father of BobbyLayne, and the greatest, most influential painter in history
Rebel - Martin Luther - The Father of the Reformation
Leader - Constantine - The Father of the Byzantine Empire
Military - Charles "The Hammer" Martel - The Father of the Father of the Father of Europe
Scientist - Alhazen, The first modern scientist and Father of the Scientific Method
Novelist/short story - Cervantes - The Father of the modern novel
Playwright/Poet - William Shakespeare - The Godfather of Western Literature
Painter - Vincent Van Gogh - The Father of BobbyLayne, and the greatest, most influential painter in history
Rebel - Martin Luther - The Father of the Reformation
Orange Crush
Footballguy
No way. All those guys will say either that the girls are too skinny and must be a lowly serf, or that you're a sinner and must be put to death.
flysack
Footballguy
No offense big guy. I think it's mainly from the Sun Tzu screamfest. Perhaps I was unfair in singling you out. I apologize. MUA?hardly. I have no idea where you are getting this from anything I have said. But, to each his own. Think what you want.
flysack
Footballguy
AOD, I really like your team. You and MadSweeney are going to be tough to beat.
timschochet
Footballguy
Even if Van Gogh is not as influential on others in the art world (according to Bobby), he's certainly the most influential man who ever lived for those who choose to slice off part of their own ears.
GTBilly
Footballguy
What I was saying is don't be fooled by the gap or how much society has evolved. I do not think today's villain's are nearly as bad as people think I believe it is the context they are in so what you are saying is what I said or was getting at.
GTBilly
Footballguy
You have no villain, we cannot discuss your team until then.
timschochet
Footballguy
Martin Luther, who made my ancestors live in ghettos and wear yellow stars, would make a fine villain as far as I'm concerned.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
really?you honestly think that Martin Luther is one of the 20 most villainous people ever just because he hated Jews?
Over people who actually wiped out civilizations and races?
Really?
wearing a yellow star is WAY better than being dead...
and that isn't even taking into account all the good that Martin Luther did...
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GTBilly
Footballguy
How bout this ASSIGN a villain and we can talk of your team. I do think Martin is a wee bit o a stretch at top 20 villain's.(I would seriously suggest you DO NOT move him to villain)
timschochet
Footballguy
It's not my team.
timschochet
Footballguy
Actually no. In fact, he's not the worst anti-Semite even in the age in which he lived. I was just looking on that list for who I could consider villainous.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
So, who's pick is it? I was looking but not sure if Usual21 was the last pick or not due to what Tim was trying to figure out.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
but in the scope of human history, disliking and even hating a group of people for their race or religion really isn't that villainous...It isn't good, but simply disliking/hating and even to a point persecuting/making life difficult for a group isn't that bad in comparison...
GTBilly
Footballguy
Smart ### you know what I meant.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
So much for my satirical attempt to change the subject.
thatguy
Footballguy
Two of my picks, Tolstoy and Schweitzer, lived in the 1900's. That's more than a quarter of my team so far, and we're picking people from as far back as 1000 BC. Just sayin'.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
I bet there are a lot of 9th graders in the U.S. who consider Cervantes villainous.
krista4
Footballguy
I was in Cambodia in July, and you notice something amazing there--you rarely see someone older than 50 or so. Almost an entire generation was wiped out, either killed by the Khmer Rouge or having died from the ensuing famine. 60% of Cambodia's population is 18 or younger. It's insane and horribly sad. Pol Pot was a more than worthy choice and good value at this point.
timschochet
Footballguy
Look, given the nature of some of the bad guys who SHOULD be chosen, I don't really think Luther belongs on the list. But that doesn't mean he's a good guy. He didn't just "dislike" the Jews or "even to a point persecuting/making life difficult" for them. Let's be clear: what he did is set in motion a German anti-Semitism based, not on religious anti-Semitism, but on nationalistic anti-Semitism. Without Luther, there is no Hitler. Luther is also arguably the man most responsible for the Thirty Years War, which devestated Central Europe and set back European civilization by centuries.
krista4
Footballguy
Just made it through that four pages of villain discussion. 
I recommended this in the movies thread, but wanted to mention here that there is a fascinating documentary about the S-21 called "S-21: The Khmer Rouge Killing Machine". I don't know if this was in the write-up above, but of the 17,000 or so prisoners at Tuol Sleng, there are only 12 known survivors. This documentary reunites two of the survivors with some of their former captors there. It's not easy to watch this movie but is an amazing account of what happened at the prison from the people who were there. A little more info about the film: S-21.
I recommended this in the movies thread, but wanted to mention here that there is a fascinating documentary about the S-21 called "S-21: The Khmer Rouge Killing Machine". I don't know if this was in the write-up above, but of the 17,000 or so prisoners at Tuol Sleng, there are only 12 known survivors. This documentary reunites two of the survivors with some of their former captors there. It's not easy to watch this movie but is an amazing account of what happened at the prison from the people who were there. A little more info about the film: S-21.
Fennis
Footballguy
Not sure which I want to ask more:1) Why were you in Cambodia?
2) Why were you in Cambodia in July?
timschochet
Footballguy
Maybe we shouldn't have made villains a category....anybody reading this who doesn't know what's going on here has to think we've all gone nuts.
krista4
Footballguy
Cambodia is by far my favorite place I've ever been.
As for July, I don't know if you're referring to the fact it would be hot or that it was the rainy season. As for the temperature, yeah, it was miserable, but it's not like it's ever pleasant there. Even in their "cool season", highs are around 85 degrees. As for the rain, we were very lucky--no monsoons. To answer the question, though, had to go in July because of an obligation one of my traveling companions had in Singapore in mid-July.
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thatguy
Footballguy
Exactly. For instance, a man that many will argue is our greatest philosopher made a philosophical argument for when and why it is moral for men to take part in sexual relations with young boys. This man was Plato.
Fennis
Footballguy
Well c'mon play tourist board of Cambodia. Why was it your favorite place? And I was asking the July question due to rainy season.Cambodia is by far my favorite place I've ever been.
timschochet
Footballguy
krista4
Footballguy
BTW, I edited above because I realized I didn't answer your question.Well c'mon play tourist board of Cambodia. Why was it your favorite place? And I was asking the July question due to rainy season.Cambodia is by far my favorite place I've ever been.
As for why, it's hard to describe. There are the obvious answers, like the sheer beauty of the places such as the Angkor temples--Angkor Wat and the other 100 or so (my favorite is Bayon)--and Tonle Sap. There is the food, which is among the best (and yes, cheapest) I've ever had. But even more than that, there is something about the people--you read about Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, and the incredible suffering the people have endured, and yet they are kind and happy and beautiful. Again I don't know how to describe it.As an example, our guide there was in his early 40s, did not begin school until he was 13 years old because no one was allowed to go to school while the Khmer Rouge were in power. He initially had eight brothers and sisters, but lost one to being killed by the Khmer Rouge and two to famine. He told us that during the famine they would eat anything they could find--spiders, crickets, leaves, anything. And yet, after this beginning to his life, he was incredibly positive and didn't complain--in fact, he said of his lost siblings, "Is OK, we still have five." That wasn't said in a flippant or unkind way, but in an accepting, making the best of life way. He has used the money from being a tour guide (one of the best-paying jobs available) to do two things: (1) a well project in which he builds wells for safe drinking water (the vast majority of Cambodians do not have access to clean water, with 74% of Cambodian deaths estimated to be attributable to water-borne illnesses), and (2) built a small school/dormitory where about 15 children from his village are brought to "the city" (Siem Reap) to continue their education, since education outside the city ends at 6th grade. One day I asked if we could forgo a couple of temples and see the school instead. I can't describe adequately how wonderful these kids (12-19 years old) were, and I generally don't like kids! It just really touched me in a way I haven't been touched by anywhere else I've visited. Beautiful people, beautiful country, often heartbreakingly sad.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
do you consider all people who were racist the same way or is hating Jews worse than hating other ethnicities/cultures/religions?Just curious...
Fennis
Footballguy
Wow. Incredible story about the guide. Thanks. It does sound like a unique and amazing experience.BTW, I edited above because I realized I didn't answer your question.Well c'mon play tourist board of Cambodia. Why was it your favorite place? And I was asking the July question due to rainy season.Cambodia is by far my favorite place I've ever been.
As an example, our guide there was in his early 40s, did not begin school until he was 13 years old because no one was allowed to go to school while the Khmer Rouge were in power. He initially had eight brothers and sisters, but lost one to being killed by the Khmer Rouge and two to famine. He told us that during the famine they would eat anything they could find--spiders, crickets, leaves, anything. And yet, after this beginning to his life, he was incredibly positive and didn't complain--in fact, he said of his lost siblings, "Is OK, we still have five." That wasn't said in a flippant or unkind way, but in an accepting, making the best of life way. He has used the money from being a tour guide (one of the best-paying jobs available) to do two things: (1) a well project in which he builds wells for safe drinking water (the vast majority of Cambodians do not have access to clean water, with 74% of Cambodian deaths estimated to be attributable to water-borne illnesses), and (2) built a small school/dormitory where about 15 children from his village are brought to "the city" (Siem Reap) to continue their education, since education outside the city ends at 6th grade. One day I asked if we could forgo a couple of temples and see the school instead. I can't describe adequately how wonderful these kids (12-19 years old) were, and I generally don't like kids! It just really touched me in a way I haven't been touched by anywhere else I've visited. Beautiful people, beautiful country, often heartbreakingly sad.
krista4
Footballguy
So I decided to do a little WGD travelogue for my current trip. Actually I was just going to take a few pictures of Bernini statues for Larry, since he chose him but didn't really know his work, but then realized I had pictures already that also fit the draft.
So, from Istanbul:
For Arsenal of Doom: Column of Constantine, constructed on the orders of the Roman emperor Constantine the Great in 330 AD.
For FUBAR: Although Muhammad is obviously a huge part of life in Istanbul, you aren't allowed to take pictures of most of the stuff associated with him. So I give you instead a picture of a portion of Topkapi Palace, which houses his cloak, his sword, one tooth, a hair of his beard, his battle sabres, an autographed letter and other relics which are known as the Sacred Trusts.
From Rome so far:
For Larry: the three fountains in Piazza Navona, all by Bernini.
Also for Larry: the tomb of Raphael, located in the Pantheon.
More to come!
So, from Istanbul:
For Arsenal of Doom: Column of Constantine, constructed on the orders of the Roman emperor Constantine the Great in 330 AD.
For FUBAR: Although Muhammad is obviously a huge part of life in Istanbul, you aren't allowed to take pictures of most of the stuff associated with him. So I give you instead a picture of a portion of Topkapi Palace, which houses his cloak, his sword, one tooth, a hair of his beard, his battle sabres, an autographed letter and other relics which are known as the Sacred Trusts.
From Rome so far:
For Larry: the three fountains in Piazza Navona, all by Bernini.
Also for Larry: the tomb of Raphael, located in the Pantheon.
More to come!
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
cool stuff...
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Sorry. I didn't check to see if anyone was in here and I logged off to think. 8.5: Elvis Aaron Presley - Celebrity
I reserve the right to change his category to "performer".
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flysack
Footballguy
Billy, you seem like a good bloke and I like you, but you need to learn the wonders of punctuation. Hell, at this point I'd take a comma splice and be happy. Reading your posts feels like running with scissors. Secondly, I do think the ideology of National Socialism, combined with Hitler's need to create an extremely fast and efficient war machine, demanded a scapegoat and thus led to genocide.
Genocides don't happen too often. Did the ancients attempt genocide? I'm referring to the attempt to systematically wipe out an entire group of people (whether they are nationally or ethnically defined).
The oldest one that comes to mind is the U.S. attempt to wipe out the Native Americans.
Edit: after that, almost all of them occur in the 19th century, and mostly 20 century.
- Australia's treatment of the aborigines has been classified as attempted genocide.
- XXXXX's attempt to wipe out the Serbs
- The current atrocity in Darfur
- Hitler's treatment of the Jews
It's possible I'm glossing over history or don't know the ancients well enough.
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Mario Kart
Footballguy
I'll be home near 3:00 central time today. Just letting you all know. Still give me my hour if my pick comes up in the 1:30 - 2:00 range though.
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flysack
Footballguy
For what it's worth, I had Elvis ranked as my #1 celebrity. To this day, some 30 years after his death, people still say they see him alive. People dress up like him everywhere. There's an entire industry built around imitating this man. You see him in football stadiums. Wackos like Jerry Glanville purchased season tickets for Elvis at Falcons games (true story). People see him in cookies and try to sell it on ebay. It's insane. He's practically a god.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
So, basically nothing got done because everyone is arguing over who is the #2 villain after my guy? Ok.....
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Villain is a highly competitive category. If we'd had a World's Greatest B-hole, however, it might have been even more competitive. (this is brought to you by the letter A, which is banned in that context).
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John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
did thatguy PM his pick to anyone?
We'll probably have to wait a coupel of hours if he didn't.
Also is Usual21 on autoskip???
We'll probably have to wait a coupel of hours if he didn't.
Also is Usual21 on autoskip???
the moops
Footballguy
But he is "merely" an American celebrity.IMO, this is going to be a very tough category because of that fact.I think the greatest celebrities are going to be tough to assign to that category, because they will already be near the top of other categories (performer, athlete, politician, etc). I think Ali is the best example of that. He would be a top celebrity (perhaps the top), but he is also a top athlete.
timschochet
Footballguy
The more I think about this question, Larry, the more offensive I find it. Are you really expecting me to tell you that hating Jews is worse than hating other people? I happen to know a lot about the terrible mistreatment of Jews in Europe throughout the centuries because it involves my ancestry and it's something I've read a lot about. All racism is abhorrent. If my answer to your question was yes, that would make me racist as well. My answer is no.
timschochet
Footballguy
Executive decision. There are a few well known international business moguls, but in general I figured it would be a repetition of the American draft. Plus, just too many categories.
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