bentley
Footballguy
You can say what you like to Debussy,but there's not much of him left to hear.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Updated writeup:
's death the next year, Proust published an article that established him as a
scholar. Proust wrote several more articles on
, and with the help of an English-speaking friend, Marie Nordlinger, and his mother, Proust translated into French
(1904) and
(1906). Reading
's ideas on art helped him form his own ideas and move beyond the problems of Jean Santeuil.
In 1903 Proust's father died. The death of his mother two years later forced Proust into a sanatorium (an institution for rest and recovery), but he stayed less than two months. He emerged once again into society and into print after two years with a series of articles published in Le Figaro during 1907 and 1908. By November 1908 Proust was planning his Contre Sainte-Beuve (published in 1954; On Art and Literature). He finished it during the summer of 1909 and immediately started work on his great novel.
Remembrance of Things Past
Although Proust had by 1909 gathered most of the material that became À la recherche du temps perdu (Remembrance of Things Past), he still felt unable to structure the material. In January 1909 the combination of flavors in a cup of tea and toast brought him sensations that reminded him of his youth in his grandfather's garden. These feelings revealed the hidden self that Proust had spoken of in Contre Sainte-Beuve, and he felt that the process of artistic rebirth was the theme his novel required. In À la recherche du temps perdu Proust was mainly concerned with describing not real life but his narrator Marcel's view of it. Marcel traces his growth through a number of remembered experiences and realizes that these experiences reflect his inner life more truly than does his outer life.
Proust began his novel in 1909 and worked on it until his death. In 1913 he found a publisher who would produce, at the author's expense, the first of three projected volumes Du Côté de chez Swann (Swann's Way). French writer
(1869–1951) in 1916 obtained the rights to publish the rest of the volumes. À l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleur (Within a Budding Grove), originally a chapter title, appeared in 1918 as the second volume and won the Goncourt Prize. As other volumes appeared, Proust expanded his material, adding long sections just before publication. Feeling his end approaching, Proust finished drafting his novel and began revising and correcting proofs. On November 18, 1922, Proust died of bronchitis and pneumonia (diseases of the lungs) contracted after a series of asthma attacks. The final volumes of his novel appeared under the direction of his brother Robert.
When I was in high school, my lit teacher made the offhand remark "My best friends are books". At the time I snickered and thought to myself 'wow that is so sad'. When I was older I came to know exactly what that teacher meant.
Books can show us ourselves, and that introspective process can propel us to exponential personal growth. What higher compliment could we pay a true friend than to say 'I'm a better person for knowing them; they bring out the very best in me'?
Rare is the book that can reproduce that experience, but when it happens, it is unforgettable; if you have experienced it yourself, you know it is an incredible secret joy. I call it a secret joy because you can't go around talking about it, people will think you are crazy as a loon
but there are few things in life more satisfying than a book that nourishes the soul.
Remembrance of Things Past is such a book.
Some selected quotes from his masterpiece:
A cathedral, a wave of a storm, a dancer's leap, never turn out to be as high as we had hoped.
A powerful idea communicates some of its power to the man who contradicts it.
Any mental activity is easy if it need not take reality into account.
As soon as one is unhappy one becomes moral.
Habit is a second nature which prevents us from knowing the first, of which it has neither the cruelties nor the enchantments.
Happiness is beneficial for the body but it is grief that develops the powers of the mind.
In reality, in love there is a permanent suffering which joy neutralizes, renders virtual, delays, but which can at any moment become what it would have become long earlier if one had not obtained what one wanted, atrocious.
It is not because other people are dead that our affection for them grows faint, it is because we ourselves are dying.
It is often hard to bear the tears that we ourselves have caused.
It is seldom indeed that one parts on good terms, because if one were on good terms, one would not part.
It's odd how a person always arouses admiration for his moral qualities among the relatives of another with whom he has sexual relations. Physical love, so unjustifiably decried, makes everyone show, down to the least detail, all he has of goodness and self-sacrifice, so that he shines even in the eyes of those nearest to him.
Less disappointing than life, great works of art do not begin by giving us all their best.
Like many intellectuals, he was incapable of saying a simple thing in a simple way.
Often it is just lack of imagination that keeps a man from suffering very much.
Only through art can we emerge from ourselves and know what another person sees.
Our intonations contain our philosophy of life, what each of us is constantly telling himself about things.
People wish to learn to swim and at the same time to keep one foot on the ground.
The duty and the task of a writer are those of an interpreter.
The features of our face are hardly more than gestures which have become permanent.
The fixity of a habit is generally in direct proportion to its absurdity.
The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeing new landscapes, but in having new eyes, in seeing the universe with the eyes of another, of hundreds of others, in seeing the hundreds of universes that each of them sees.
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes.
The time which we have at our disposal every day is elastic; the passions we feel expand it, those that we inspire contract it, and habit fills up what remains.
The true paradises are the lost paradises.
There is not a woman in the world that possession of whom is as precious as that of the truth which she reveals to us by causing us to suffer.
Those whose suffering is due to love are, as we say of certain invalids, their own physicians.
Time, which changes people, does not alter the image we have retained of them.
We are healed of a suffering only by experiencing it to the full.
We do not succeed in changing things according to our desire, but gradually our desire changes.
We don't receive wisdom; we must discover it for ourselves after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us.
Words do not change their meanings so drastically in the course of centuries as, in our minds, names do in the course of a year or two.
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. We don't receive wisdom; we must discover it for ourselves after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us.– Marcel Proust
The Proust QuestionairreThe questionnaire has its origins in a parlor game popularized (though not devised) by Proust (1871–1922), who believed that, in answering these questions, an individual reveals his or her true nature. Click here to read some responses of noteworthy contemporary figures. The questions:
, and after
Ruskin
Ruskin
Ruskin
Ruskin
Ruskin's The Bible of Amiens
Sesame and Lilies
Ruskin
In 1903 Proust's father died. The death of his mother two years later forced Proust into a sanatorium (an institution for rest and recovery), but he stayed less than two months. He emerged once again into society and into print after two years with a series of articles published in Le Figaro during 1907 and 1908. By November 1908 Proust was planning his Contre Sainte-Beuve (published in 1954; On Art and Literature). He finished it during the summer of 1909 and immediately started work on his great novel.
Remembrance of Things Past
Although Proust had by 1909 gathered most of the material that became À la recherche du temps perdu (Remembrance of Things Past), he still felt unable to structure the material. In January 1909 the combination of flavors in a cup of tea and toast brought him sensations that reminded him of his youth in his grandfather's garden. These feelings revealed the hidden self that Proust had spoken of in Contre Sainte-Beuve, and he felt that the process of artistic rebirth was the theme his novel required. In À la recherche du temps perdu Proust was mainly concerned with describing not real life but his narrator Marcel's view of it. Marcel traces his growth through a number of remembered experiences and realizes that these experiences reflect his inner life more truly than does his outer life.
Proust began his novel in 1909 and worked on it until his death. In 1913 he found a publisher who would produce, at the author's expense, the first of three projected volumes Du Côté de chez Swann (Swann's Way). French writer
André Gide
When I was in high school, my lit teacher made the offhand remark "My best friends are books". At the time I snickered and thought to myself 'wow that is so sad'. When I was older I came to know exactly what that teacher meant.
Books can show us ourselves, and that introspective process can propel us to exponential personal growth. What higher compliment could we pay a true friend than to say 'I'm a better person for knowing them; they bring out the very best in me'?
Rare is the book that can reproduce that experience, but when it happens, it is unforgettable; if you have experienced it yourself, you know it is an incredible secret joy. I call it a secret joy because you can't go around talking about it, people will think you are crazy as a loon
but there are few things in life more satisfying than a book that nourishes the soul.Remembrance of Things Past is such a book.
Some selected quotes from his masterpiece:
A cathedral, a wave of a storm, a dancer's leap, never turn out to be as high as we had hoped.
A powerful idea communicates some of its power to the man who contradicts it.
Any mental activity is easy if it need not take reality into account.
As soon as one is unhappy one becomes moral.
Habit is a second nature which prevents us from knowing the first, of which it has neither the cruelties nor the enchantments.
Happiness is beneficial for the body but it is grief that develops the powers of the mind.
In reality, in love there is a permanent suffering which joy neutralizes, renders virtual, delays, but which can at any moment become what it would have become long earlier if one had not obtained what one wanted, atrocious.
It is not because other people are dead that our affection for them grows faint, it is because we ourselves are dying.
It is often hard to bear the tears that we ourselves have caused.
It is seldom indeed that one parts on good terms, because if one were on good terms, one would not part.
It's odd how a person always arouses admiration for his moral qualities among the relatives of another with whom he has sexual relations. Physical love, so unjustifiably decried, makes everyone show, down to the least detail, all he has of goodness and self-sacrifice, so that he shines even in the eyes of those nearest to him.
Less disappointing than life, great works of art do not begin by giving us all their best.
Like many intellectuals, he was incapable of saying a simple thing in a simple way.
Often it is just lack of imagination that keeps a man from suffering very much.
Only through art can we emerge from ourselves and know what another person sees.
Our intonations contain our philosophy of life, what each of us is constantly telling himself about things.
People wish to learn to swim and at the same time to keep one foot on the ground.
The duty and the task of a writer are those of an interpreter.
The features of our face are hardly more than gestures which have become permanent.
The fixity of a habit is generally in direct proportion to its absurdity.
The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeing new landscapes, but in having new eyes, in seeing the universe with the eyes of another, of hundreds of others, in seeing the hundreds of universes that each of them sees.
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes.
The time which we have at our disposal every day is elastic; the passions we feel expand it, those that we inspire contract it, and habit fills up what remains.
The true paradises are the lost paradises.
There is not a woman in the world that possession of whom is as precious as that of the truth which she reveals to us by causing us to suffer.
Those whose suffering is due to love are, as we say of certain invalids, their own physicians.
Time, which changes people, does not alter the image we have retained of them.
We are healed of a suffering only by experiencing it to the full.
We do not succeed in changing things according to our desire, but gradually our desire changes.
We don't receive wisdom; we must discover it for ourselves after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us.
Words do not change their meanings so drastically in the course of centuries as, in our minds, names do in the course of a year or two.
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. We don't receive wisdom; we must discover it for ourselves after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us.– Marcel Proust
The Proust QuestionairreThe questionnaire has its origins in a parlor game popularized (though not devised) by Proust (1871–1922), who believed that, in answering these questions, an individual reveals his or her true nature. Click here to read some responses of noteworthy contemporary figures. The questions:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Updated writeup:
in Paris in 1861, after many disputes with his father over his desire to dedicate himself to painting. Cezanne's stay in Paris lasted only six months. Though attracted by the more radical art forms in Paris, admiring the innovating works by
,
and
, he destroys many canvases during depressive moments and returns home full of self-doubt. A year spent working with his father, however, convinced him to try a painter's life again. Cezanne's early works were dark and composed of heavy, fluid pigment suggesting the moody, romantic expression of previous generations.
Cezanne returns to Paris suffering a new defeat when failing the entrance exam for the Ecole des Beaux-Arts. Worse, his paintings are rejected by the Salon. Thanks to
, he is introduced to Impressionist painters such as
and
.
1870
At 30, Cezanne changes his style and his habits. He meets Hortense Fiquet who becomes his mistress for many years. The black and morbid atmosphere of his painting gradually changes as he concentrates on landscape subjects. This period is also known as "constructive", characterized by the grouping of parallel, hatched brushstrokes that have the power to build a feeling of mass. After the birth of his son, Cezanne moved with his family to Pontoise, where
lived. For two years the two men spent long periods together.
introduces him to Impressionist painting and his work is finally exhibited together with other Impressionist works in 1874.
's influence is seen through the somewhat lightened palette. Throughout his career, will faithfully keep painting directly from nature. However, Cezanne reacted against the lack of structure in the Impressionist paintings and said that he intended to make Impressionism into "something solid and durable, like the art of the museums". He did innovate beyond Impressionism and is ranked alongside the Post-Impressionist artists
,
and
.
For many years, still-lifes and landscapes were Cezanne's main topics. Composing more than 200 still-life paintings, Cezanne wants to 'conquer Paris with an apple'. 'Apples and Oranges' is one of his most famous still-life compositions. Applying the same methodical analysis to these works as he did with his landscapes, Cezanne records the slightest variations in tone and color observed over long periods as well as the forms from empirical geometry he considered the most frequent in nature - the 'cylinder, sphere and the cone'.
1880
In 1881, Cezanne's brother-in-law bought a house with a view on the Saint-Victoire mountain. He feels this mountain in his compositions is the essence of all that he had felt had eluded the Impressionists - firmness, solidity, permanence.
When in 1886
's publishes
, Cezanne was deeply hurt by the resemblances to the main character, which was a failed artist. This leads to the end of his friendship with
. In the same year, Cezanne reveals the existence of his family to his parents and then marries Hortense. Later that year, Cezanne's father dies, leaving him a comfortable inheritence.
The next few years, Cezanne becomes increasingly isolated from his family in Paris while he stays in Aix. Cutting himself off from the outer world, he lives the life of a recluse.
1890
In his late fifties however, Cezanne's work finally began to attract the attention it deserves. Ambroise Vollard, a renowned art dealer, organises an exhibit of Cezanne's work in Paris in 1895. Appreciation and acceptance of his innovative work follows, and Vollard even buys every painting from Cezanne's studio in 1897. Young artists travel to Aix to see him at work.
End of his life
Cezanne's artistic search leads him to study the same subjects over and over, varying his approach each time. 'The Great Bathers', a monumental piece showing women in a landscape, is a revision of a favourite subject, first explored in 1875.
In later years, Cezanne's health detriorated. On October 22 1906, Cezanne dies of pneumonia.
greatly admired his use of color. He used color with passion and creativity, giving his brush strokes structure, solidity, durability. Pablo Picasso said the following of the artist "My one and only master . . . Cezanne was like the father of us all". Cezanne is therefore often described as the "father of modern art". Unfortunately, Cezanne was the ultimate outsider and misunderstood during most of his life. Success came little and late, although young promising painters came to visit him during his last years.
Early Life and work
Paul Cezanne was born on January 19, 1839, as the son of a wealthy banker in the southern French town of Aix-en-Provence. Cezanne develops artistic interest at an early age and joins his boyhood companion and author
Emile Zola
Early Life and work
Paul Cezanne was born on January 19, 1839, as the son of a wealthy banker in the southern French town of Aix-en-Provence. Cezanne develops artistic interest at an early age and joins his boyhood companion and author
Emile Zola
Eugène Delacroix
Gustave Courbet
Edouard Manet
Cezanne returns to Paris suffering a new defeat when failing the entrance exam for the Ecole des Beaux-Arts. Worse, his paintings are rejected by the Salon. Thanks to
Pissarro
Manet
Degas
1870
At 30, Cezanne changes his style and his habits. He meets Hortense Fiquet who becomes his mistress for many years. The black and morbid atmosphere of his painting gradually changes as he concentrates on landscape subjects. This period is also known as "constructive", characterized by the grouping of parallel, hatched brushstrokes that have the power to build a feeling of mass. After the birth of his son, Cezanne moved with his family to Pontoise, where
Pissarro
Pissarro
Pissarro
Seurat
Van Gogh
Gauguin
For many years, still-lifes and landscapes were Cezanne's main topics. Composing more than 200 still-life paintings, Cezanne wants to 'conquer Paris with an apple'. 'Apples and Oranges' is one of his most famous still-life compositions. Applying the same methodical analysis to these works as he did with his landscapes, Cezanne records the slightest variations in tone and color observed over long periods as well as the forms from empirical geometry he considered the most frequent in nature - the 'cylinder, sphere and the cone'.
1880
In 1881, Cezanne's brother-in-law bought a house with a view on the Saint-Victoire mountain. He feels this mountain in his compositions is the essence of all that he had felt had eluded the Impressionists - firmness, solidity, permanence.
When in 1886
Emile Zola
L'Oeuvre
Zola
The next few years, Cezanne becomes increasingly isolated from his family in Paris while he stays in Aix. Cutting himself off from the outer world, he lives the life of a recluse.
1890
In his late fifties however, Cezanne's work finally began to attract the attention it deserves. Ambroise Vollard, a renowned art dealer, organises an exhibit of Cezanne's work in Paris in 1895. Appreciation and acceptance of his innovative work follows, and Vollard even buys every painting from Cezanne's studio in 1897. Young artists travel to Aix to see him at work.
End of his life
Cezanne's artistic search leads him to study the same subjects over and over, varying his approach each time. 'The Great Bathers', a monumental piece showing women in a landscape, is a revision of a favourite subject, first explored in 1875.
In later years, Cezanne's health detriorated. On October 22 1906, Cezanne dies of pneumonia.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
MFin SOD
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Wow, that's got to be the 27th SOD so far. Someone even tried to claim 1.01 as the SOD (which is of course technically impossible).
dparker713
Footballguy
The setting, or genre, is immaterial to the greatness of the work. I can think of more than a few genre works that stack up against any fiction ever written. They deal with important topics in a new and thought provoking way while engaging the reader.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Updated writeup:
1865
11 a.m. on November 11th
December 7th
For English and French children - truly, all of the E.U. - no date holds greater significance than 1066.
At the start of 1066, England was ruled by Edward the Confessor. By the end of the year, a Norman - William the Conqueror - was king after defeating Edward's successor, Harold, at the Battle of Hastings. With three kings in one year, a legendary battle in October and a Norman in charge of England, it is little wonder that people rarely forget the year 1066. Many historians view 1066 as the end of the Dark Ages, and the birth of the Middle Ages.
William the Conqueror (1027-1087) should strictly be known as William I. William is credited with kick-starting England into the phase known as Medieval England; William was the victor at the Battle of Hastings; he introduced modern castle building techniques into Medieval England and by his death he had financially tied down many people with the Domesday Book.
His father was Robert, Duke of Normandy and his mother was Herleve of Falaise. They never married and William was known as "William the *******" to his enemies - though this was never said to his face when he had grown up.
In 1035, Robert died and as his only surviving heir, William became Duke of Normandy at the age of 8. William's young age and the fact that he was born out of marriage, meant that many lords in Normandy did not approve of him ruling them. In 1040, they tried to kill William. The plan failed but William's guardian - Gilbert of Brionne - was killed.
In 1047, the lords in western Normandy rebelled against William again. They, again, failed but these two incidents taught William to trust no-one. He also became a victim of the violent time he lived in. He believed that if someone betrayed him, then he should show no mercy. If a village or town betrayed him, then he should show no mercy. In 1051, citizens in the town of Alençon, which William was besieging, taunted him about being illegitimate. Once the town had fallen to him, he ordered that those who had abused him should have their hands and feet cut off.
In 1051, William met Edward the Confessor. William claimed that at this meeting, Edward promised him the throne of England on Edward's death. However, there were no proper witnesses to this meeting - only those who wanted to keep on the good side of William.
In 1053, William married Matilda of Flanders. They had nine children, of whom seven survived.
During the next ten years, William had to constantly fight off invaders to his territory. He was always successful and built up a feared and professional army. His army's main power was based on his cavalry - horse borne soldiers. These men were highly trained. They wore chain mail into battle, used a lance, sword or mace to fight with and rode horses that were bred to carry such a weight at speed.
The Normans under William the Conqueror came to govern England following one of the most famous battles in English history: the Battle of Hastings in 1066. William presided over a period of great change and development for the country. The Domesday Book, a great record of English land-holding, was published; the forests were extended; the Exchequer was founded; and a start was made on the Tower of London. In religious affairs, the Gregorian reform movement gathered pace and forced concessions, while the machinery of government developed to support the country while Henry was fighting abroad. Meanwhile, the social landscape altered dramatically, as the Norman aristocracy came to prominence. Many of the nobles struggled to keep a hold on their interests in both Normandy and England, as divided rule meant the threat of conflict.
He increased the function of the traditional English shires (autonomous administrative regions), which he brought under central control; he decreased the power of the earls by restricting them to one shire apiece. All administrative functions of his government remained fixed at specific English towns, except the court itself; they would progressively strengthen, and the English institutions became amongst the most sophisticated in Europe. In 1085, in order to ascertain the extent of his new dominions and to improve taxation, William commissioned all his counselors for the compilation of the Domesday Book, which was published in 1086. The book was a survey of England's productive capacity similar to a modern census.
William also ordered many castles, keeps, and mottes, among them the Tower of London's foundation (the White Tower), to be built throughout England. These ensured effectively that the many rebellions by the English people or his own followers did not succeed.
His conquest also led to French (especially, but not only, the Norman French) replacing English as the language of the ruling classes for nearly 300 years. Furthermore, the original Anglo-Saxon culture of England became mingled with the Norman one; thus the Anglo-Norman culture came into being.
William is said to have eliminated the native aristocracy in as little as four years. Systematically, he despoiled those English aristocrats who either opposed the Normans or who died without issue. Thus, most English estates and titles of nobility were handed to the Norman noblemen. Many English aristocrats fled to Flanders and Scotland; others may have been sold into slavery overseas. Some escaped to join the Byzantine Empire's Varangian Guard, and went on to fight the Normans in Sicily. By 1070, the indigenous nobility had ceased to be an integral part of the English landscape, and by 1086, it maintained control of just 8% of its original land-holdings. However, to the new Norman noblemen, William handed the English parcels of land piecemeal, dispersing these wide. Thus nobody would try conspiring against him without jeopardizing their own estates within the so unstable England. Effectively, this strengthened William's political stand as a monarch.
The medieval chronicler William of Malmesbury says that the king also seized and depopulated many miles of land (36 parishes), turning it into the royal New Forest region to support his enthusiastic enjoyment of hunting. Modern historians, however, have come to the conclusion that the New Forest depopulation was greatly exaggerated. Most of the lands of the New Forest are poor agricultural lands, and archaeological and geographic studies have shown that the New Forest was likely sparsely settled when it was turned into a royal forest.
William's invasion was the last time that England was successfully conquered by a foreign power. Although there would be a number of other attempts over the centuries, the best that could be achieved would be excursions by foreign troops, such as the Raid on the Medway during the Second Anglo-Dutch War, but no actual conquests such as William's. There have however been occasions since that time when foreign rulers have succeeded to the English/British throne, notably the Dutch Stadtholder William III of Orange in 1688 after a successful invasion of England by Dutch troops (see Glorious Revolution) and George of Hanover b. 1660, who acceded by virtue of the exclusion of Roman Catholics from the succession.
As Duke of Normandy and King of England he divided his realm among his sons, but the lands were reunited under his son Henry, and his descendants acquired other territories through marriage or conquest and, at their height, these possessions would be known as the Angevin Empire.
They included many lands in France, such as Normandy and Aquitaine, but the question of jurisdiction over these territories would be the cause of much conflict and bitter rivalry between England and France, which took up much of the Middle Ages, including the Hundred Years War and, some might argue, continued as far as the Battle of Waterloo of 1815.
An example of William's legacy even in modern times can be seen on the Bayeux Memorial, a monument erected by Britain in the Normandy town of Bayeux to those killed in the Battle of Normandy during World War II. A Latin inscription on the memorial reads NOS A GULIELMO VICTI VICTORIS PATRIAM LIBERAVIMUS - freely translated, this reads "We, once conquered by William, have now set free the Conqueror's native land".
The Leader Judge for the World's Greatest Draft has stated:
When most of us were introduced to history ('social studies' in my rural education), we were told it was important to memorize dates. For many, that exercise turned them off, but for better or worse, the American education system ensures that all school children have certain dates etched into their collective memory.1776
1865
11 a.m. on November 11th
December 7th
For English and French children - truly, all of the E.U. - no date holds greater significance than 1066.
At the start of 1066, England was ruled by Edward the Confessor. By the end of the year, a Norman - William the Conqueror - was king after defeating Edward's successor, Harold, at the Battle of Hastings. With three kings in one year, a legendary battle in October and a Norman in charge of England, it is little wonder that people rarely forget the year 1066. Many historians view 1066 as the end of the Dark Ages, and the birth of the Middle Ages.
William the Conqueror (1027-1087) should strictly be known as William I. William is credited with kick-starting England into the phase known as Medieval England; William was the victor at the Battle of Hastings; he introduced modern castle building techniques into Medieval England and by his death he had financially tied down many people with the Domesday Book.
His father was Robert, Duke of Normandy and his mother was Herleve of Falaise. They never married and William was known as "William the *******" to his enemies - though this was never said to his face when he had grown up.
In 1035, Robert died and as his only surviving heir, William became Duke of Normandy at the age of 8. William's young age and the fact that he was born out of marriage, meant that many lords in Normandy did not approve of him ruling them. In 1040, they tried to kill William. The plan failed but William's guardian - Gilbert of Brionne - was killed.
In 1047, the lords in western Normandy rebelled against William again. They, again, failed but these two incidents taught William to trust no-one. He also became a victim of the violent time he lived in. He believed that if someone betrayed him, then he should show no mercy. If a village or town betrayed him, then he should show no mercy. In 1051, citizens in the town of Alençon, which William was besieging, taunted him about being illegitimate. Once the town had fallen to him, he ordered that those who had abused him should have their hands and feet cut off.
In 1051, William met Edward the Confessor. William claimed that at this meeting, Edward promised him the throne of England on Edward's death. However, there were no proper witnesses to this meeting - only those who wanted to keep on the good side of William.
In 1053, William married Matilda of Flanders. They had nine children, of whom seven survived.
During the next ten years, William had to constantly fight off invaders to his territory. He was always successful and built up a feared and professional army. His army's main power was based on his cavalry - horse borne soldiers. These men were highly trained. They wore chain mail into battle, used a lance, sword or mace to fight with and rode horses that were bred to carry such a weight at speed.
The Normans under William the Conqueror came to govern England following one of the most famous battles in English history: the Battle of Hastings in 1066. William presided over a period of great change and development for the country. The Domesday Book, a great record of English land-holding, was published; the forests were extended; the Exchequer was founded; and a start was made on the Tower of London. In religious affairs, the Gregorian reform movement gathered pace and forced concessions, while the machinery of government developed to support the country while Henry was fighting abroad. Meanwhile, the social landscape altered dramatically, as the Norman aristocracy came to prominence. Many of the nobles struggled to keep a hold on their interests in both Normandy and England, as divided rule meant the threat of conflict.
He increased the function of the traditional English shires (autonomous administrative regions), which he brought under central control; he decreased the power of the earls by restricting them to one shire apiece. All administrative functions of his government remained fixed at specific English towns, except the court itself; they would progressively strengthen, and the English institutions became amongst the most sophisticated in Europe. In 1085, in order to ascertain the extent of his new dominions and to improve taxation, William commissioned all his counselors for the compilation of the Domesday Book, which was published in 1086. The book was a survey of England's productive capacity similar to a modern census.
William also ordered many castles, keeps, and mottes, among them the Tower of London's foundation (the White Tower), to be built throughout England. These ensured effectively that the many rebellions by the English people or his own followers did not succeed.
His conquest also led to French (especially, but not only, the Norman French) replacing English as the language of the ruling classes for nearly 300 years. Furthermore, the original Anglo-Saxon culture of England became mingled with the Norman one; thus the Anglo-Norman culture came into being.
William is said to have eliminated the native aristocracy in as little as four years. Systematically, he despoiled those English aristocrats who either opposed the Normans or who died without issue. Thus, most English estates and titles of nobility were handed to the Norman noblemen. Many English aristocrats fled to Flanders and Scotland; others may have been sold into slavery overseas. Some escaped to join the Byzantine Empire's Varangian Guard, and went on to fight the Normans in Sicily. By 1070, the indigenous nobility had ceased to be an integral part of the English landscape, and by 1086, it maintained control of just 8% of its original land-holdings. However, to the new Norman noblemen, William handed the English parcels of land piecemeal, dispersing these wide. Thus nobody would try conspiring against him without jeopardizing their own estates within the so unstable England. Effectively, this strengthened William's political stand as a monarch.
The medieval chronicler William of Malmesbury says that the king also seized and depopulated many miles of land (36 parishes), turning it into the royal New Forest region to support his enthusiastic enjoyment of hunting. Modern historians, however, have come to the conclusion that the New Forest depopulation was greatly exaggerated. Most of the lands of the New Forest are poor agricultural lands, and archaeological and geographic studies have shown that the New Forest was likely sparsely settled when it was turned into a royal forest.
William's invasion was the last time that England was successfully conquered by a foreign power. Although there would be a number of other attempts over the centuries, the best that could be achieved would be excursions by foreign troops, such as the Raid on the Medway during the Second Anglo-Dutch War, but no actual conquests such as William's. There have however been occasions since that time when foreign rulers have succeeded to the English/British throne, notably the Dutch Stadtholder William III of Orange in 1688 after a successful invasion of England by Dutch troops (see Glorious Revolution) and George of Hanover b. 1660, who acceded by virtue of the exclusion of Roman Catholics from the succession.
As Duke of Normandy and King of England he divided his realm among his sons, but the lands were reunited under his son Henry, and his descendants acquired other territories through marriage or conquest and, at their height, these possessions would be known as the Angevin Empire.
They included many lands in France, such as Normandy and Aquitaine, but the question of jurisdiction over these territories would be the cause of much conflict and bitter rivalry between England and France, which took up much of the Middle Ages, including the Hundred Years War and, some might argue, continued as far as the Battle of Waterloo of 1815.
An example of William's legacy even in modern times can be seen on the Bayeux Memorial, a monument erected by Britain in the Normandy town of Bayeux to those killed in the Battle of Normandy during World War II. A Latin inscription on the memorial reads NOS A GULIELMO VICTI VICTORIS PATRIAM LIBERAVIMUS - freely translated, this reads "We, once conquered by William, have now set free the Conqueror's native land".
The Leader Judge for the World's Greatest Draft has stated:
No King of England had a more lasting impact on Western civ than William the Conqueror.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Some things you say are intelligent. Other times you are out in left field. Tolkien = Greatness
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
World's Greatest Draft
Team BobbyLayne through Round Ten
Composer 1.18 Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Philosopher 2.03 Aristotle
Intellectual 3.18 John Locke
Military 4.03 Hannibal
Novelist/short story 5.18 Marcel Proust
Painter 6.03 Paul Cezanne
Playwright/Poet 7.18 Anton Chekhov
Leader 8.03 William the Conqueror
Villain 9.18 Ivan the Terrible
Celebrity 10.03 Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis
Team BobbyLayne through Round Ten
Composer 1.18 Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Philosopher 2.03 Aristotle
Intellectual 3.18 John Locke
Military 4.03 Hannibal
Novelist/short story 5.18 Marcel Proust
Painter 6.03 Paul Cezanne
Playwright/Poet 7.18 Anton Chekhov
Leader 8.03 William the Conqueror
Villain 9.18 Ivan the Terrible
Celebrity 10.03 Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
I wouldn't say this, but Rommel would have won if he had been properly equipped and supported.
Or at least with Southern accents!
Regarding Asimov:Sure he is best known for a specific genre, but the man wrote about nearly everything.
timschochet
Footballguy
Here's the problem with the criticism against Monty- yes, it helps to be better equipped, but you've still got to win the battle. Look at the generals in charge of the Union Army during the first several years of the Civil War, especially MacClellan. Everyone one of them was better equipped and had more troops than the Southern armies they faced but they failed to win battles, mostly due to timidity, partly due to the superior generalship of the opponents. Montgomery faced a great general on the other side. Yes he had more equipment, but he was agressive, and he won.
flysack
Footballguy
For any "genre" fiction to measure up against the great explorations of the human condition, it has to transcend its own genre. Why? Because genre itself is a limiting style. The greatest authors invent their own styles, oftentimes borrowing from numerous genres in the process. Genre, even when done well, is a stencil. You can only explore so much inside its pattern. In order to be great, a genre writer needs to transcend her genre or step out of the limits of the stencil, in order to get at something deeper, more compelling, more substantial. Three of the best genre writers I've read don't match to the top 20 fiction writers of all time. It's not even close. I like genre writing when it's done WELL. I really do. It's easy for the genre defenders to (snobbishly) label me a "snob" and dismiss my opinions. But at least I base my judgments of Tolkien on reading LOTR twice. All too often I hear people trashing Joyce because they read 50 pages of one of his novels and stopped. I can't tell you how hilarious and sad I find that.
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dparker713
Footballguy
Napolean was full of it, he would have lost without great Cavalry and/or Cannons. Its generally accepted that for armies with similar technology, a numbers advantage of 2-1 is close to insurmountable. Now its more complicated than pure numbers when you have armor, artillery, cavalry, etc., but the basic theory is the same. Often times the battle is won well before the battleground is even selected by the engineers, armorsmiths or the number of conscripts. Its one of the reasons Cannae is so spectacular.One of the things about modern warfare is that equipment plays such an important part. Yes, it is true that it played a part in wars of the past, but the difference was not so overwhelming. Napoleon said that the difference between the moral to the material was as four to one. Well, that ratio is about reversed today. To be on the battlefield without tanks, for example, facing an enemy with tanks, is to be doomed to defeat. So the qualities of generalship are likely to be less decisive. BTW, at El Alamein, Montgomery had a a 9-5 advantage in men, a 2-1 advantage in tanks, an 8-5 advantage in anti tank guns, and a 3-5 disadvantage in artillery.I'm as happy as anyone that Rommel lost, but had he been better equipped... well, it's a scary thought.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
You need to stop spot lighting. Seriously.
flysack
Footballguy
I fixed it, but frankly, I'll laugh myself silly if someone took either of those writers.And I didn't come out and type their names. I used initials. If you'd read them, you'd know who I was talking about. If not, you wouldn't.
krista4
Footballguy
While you are laughing yourself silly, I will be gently weeping.
dparker713
Footballguy
There have been patterns in fiction stories in general for as long as they've been told. The forms themselves are not limiting. Tolkien I dont consider wonderful writing (amazing creativity, but not a great writer for me), but how exactly was he constrained by form? I see someone like Dickens more constrained by form in Great Expectations. (Oh and dont look now, but he also wrote a fantasy novel in A Christmas Carol)
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
I think you are underestimating both what can be done in the confines of science fiction, horror, or fantasy novels and what constitutes those genres as well...
Mario Kart
Footballguy
True, they should be in consideration in something like this but I am becoming leery of any spot lighting because my picks are coming up and I do not want anyone to snipe them.I don't think it will get to my pick tonight... so I am going to bed now.
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dparker713
Footballguy
There is just an upper limit of the amount of troops, equipment and technology that even the best generalship can overcome. And since Monty wasnt entirely incompetent in that battle, there was really nothing Rommel could do.
Usual21
Footballguy
10.7 - Fidel Castro - Rebel
Fidel Alejandro Castro Ruz (born August 13, 1926) is a Cuban revolutionary leader who was prime minister of Cuba from February 1959 to December 1976 and then president, premier until his resignation from the office in February 2008.
Castro began his political life with nationalist critiques of Fulgencio Batista, and of United States political and corporate influence in Cuba. He gained an ardent, but limited, following and also drew the attention of the authorities. He eventually led the failed 1953 attack on the Moncada Barracks, after which he was captured, tried, incarcerated and later released. He then traveled to Mexico to organize and train for the invasion of Cuba that took place in December 1956.
Castro came to power as a result of the Cuban revolution that overthrew Fulgencio Batista, and shortly thereafter became Prime Minister of Cuba. In 1965 he became First Secretary of the Communist Party of Cuba and led the transformation of Cuba into a one-party socialist republic. In 1976 he became President of the Council of State as well as of the Council of Ministers. He also held the supreme military rank of Comandante en Jefe ("Commander in Chief") of the Cuban armed forces.
Following intestinal surgery from an undisclosed digestive illness believed to have been diverticulitis, Castro transferred his responsibilities to the First Vice-President, his younger brother Raúl Castro, on July 31, 2006. On February 19, 2008, five days before his mandate was to expire, he announced he would neither seek nor accept a new term as either president or commander-in-chief. On February 24, 2008, the National Assembly elected Raúl Castro to succeed him as the President of Cuba. Fidel Castro remains First Secretary of the Communist Party.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro
Fidel Alejandro Castro Ruz (born August 13, 1926) is a Cuban revolutionary leader who was prime minister of Cuba from February 1959 to December 1976 and then president, premier until his resignation from the office in February 2008.
Castro began his political life with nationalist critiques of Fulgencio Batista, and of United States political and corporate influence in Cuba. He gained an ardent, but limited, following and also drew the attention of the authorities. He eventually led the failed 1953 attack on the Moncada Barracks, after which he was captured, tried, incarcerated and later released. He then traveled to Mexico to organize and train for the invasion of Cuba that took place in December 1956.
Castro came to power as a result of the Cuban revolution that overthrew Fulgencio Batista, and shortly thereafter became Prime Minister of Cuba. In 1965 he became First Secretary of the Communist Party of Cuba and led the transformation of Cuba into a one-party socialist republic. In 1976 he became President of the Council of State as well as of the Council of Ministers. He also held the supreme military rank of Comandante en Jefe ("Commander in Chief") of the Cuban armed forces.
Following intestinal surgery from an undisclosed digestive illness believed to have been diverticulitis, Castro transferred his responsibilities to the First Vice-President, his younger brother Raúl Castro, on July 31, 2006. On February 19, 2008, five days before his mandate was to expire, he announced he would neither seek nor accept a new term as either president or commander-in-chief. On February 24, 2008, the National Assembly elected Raúl Castro to succeed him as the President of Cuba. Fidel Castro remains First Secretary of the Communist Party.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro
SofaKings
Footballguy
Ok, give Montgomery the slight edge at Alamein. Please tell me about his next great victory.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Oh, I definitely think Napoleon was overstating it and I am sure he knew it, but he was making a point. But for other battles, and I agree with you about Cannae; there is also Issus, where Alexander the Great was outnumbered more than 2-1; Alesia, where Caesar was outnumbered about 4-1; Salamis, in which the Greeks were outnumbered about 2-1; Gravelines and the Armada, where the English were outnumbered by about 50%; Napoleon at the Battle of the Pyramids, outnumbered 3-1; Plataea, where the Greeks defeated the Persians (numbers are inconsistent, but maybe 2-1); Marengo, where Napoleon had a disadvantage of 3-2 in men and 4-1 in artillery; etc.Napolean was full of it, he would have lost without great Cavalry and/or Cannons. Its generally accepted that for armies with similar technology, a numbers advantage of 2-1 is close to insurmountable. Now its more complicated than pure numbers when you have armor, artillery, cavalry, etc., but the basic theory is the same. Often times the battle is won well before the battleground is even selected by the engineers, armorsmiths or the number of conscripts. Its one of the reasons Cannae is so spectacular.One of the things about modern warfare is that equipment plays such an important part. Yes, it is true that it played a part in wars of the past, but the difference was not so overwhelming. Napoleon said that the difference between the moral to the material was as four to one. Well, that ratio is about reversed today. To be on the battlefield without tanks, for example, facing an enemy with tanks, is to be doomed to defeat. So the qualities of generalship are likely to be less decisive. BTW, at El Alamein, Montgomery had a a 9-5 advantage in men, a 2-1 advantage in tanks, an 8-5 advantage in anti tank guns, and a 3-5 disadvantage in artillery.
Doug B
Footballguy
Bobby Layne almost blew this one for me 
:
10.12 - Joseph Haydn, Composer
String Quartet in B flat major, Op. 76 No. 4 (Sunrise)
:10.12 - Joseph Haydn, Composer
Among Haydn's more notable works:The music to Das Deutschlandlied (current German national anthem)
String Quartet in B flat major, Op. 76 No. 4 (Sunrise)
flysack
Footballguy
Let's recap our positions:- I said for genre fiction to be good it needs to transcend its own genre.
- You said genre isn't limiting. In your own words, "The setting, or genre, is immaterial to the greatness of the work. I can think of more than a few genre works that stack up against any fiction ever written. "
Part of the problem is I can't list specific examples to demonstrate what I'm talking about. However, my favorite author wrote most of his novels in the Gothic genre. Was he constrained to it? Hardly. He's one of the top 10 novelists ever, IMO, because his genre was merely a stylistic setting (like you said). The reason he's so good is because he explores the human soul with extraordinary depth. This is how he transcends his own genre. The setting is a mere backdrop to his own personal Hamlet production. This is not the case in your "genre works."
This is the crux of my argument. It's also where your argument falls apart. Genre fiction is called "genre fiction" because its setting doesn't recede from the story, instead it dominates it. Hence the term "genre fiction," or your own "genre works."
It's all about quality.
Asmiov is a genre writer. His futurism dominates his work. While arguments have been made that he transcends his genre at times, his overall body of work is indeed dominated by it. This is why I think that he fails to rank in the top 50 novelists of all time. Tolkien does hit the top 50, but only because LOTR transcends its genre in many interesting and creative ways (the pathos of Golem is one). However, he still doesn't rank in the top 20. There's just too many better writers out there.
Just because someone is more popular doesn't mean they're the better writer. Yet, this is what the snobbish anti-snob crowd always argue with their standard of resentment: they argue for poor standards of quality. They love arguing for "accessibility" because they want their fiction spoonfed to them. The idea of working through a piece of complex fiction is abhorrent. They read 20 pages of Joyce and quit and cry that he sucks.
This disturbs me deeply. Why? Because, as I've repeatedly said, the greatest fiction explores the human condition, our heart and soul. These things are enormously complex. So why would you ever demand that their exploration not be equally complex? Yet this is precisely what the "accessibility" crowd demands: the watering down of the human soul.
Great fiction refuses to do this. This is why so much of the best writing comes off as "difficult" or "inaccessible." IT REQUIRES THINKING AND WORK TO GET THROUGH BECAUSE THE EFFING HUMAN SOUL REQUIRES THINKING AND WORK TO UNDERSTAND. I wouldn't want it any other way.
This is the last time I'm addressing this argument in this thread. It's been done over and over and I really don't have anything else to add.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
[13. DC Thunder - turn to pick
14. Thorn - on the deck
15. Yankee23fan - in the hole
16. Acer FC
17. FUBAR
18. Arsenal of Doom
19. Larry Boy 44
20. Mario Kart
14. Thorn - on the deck
15. Yankee23fan - in the hole
16. Acer FC
17. FUBAR
18. Arsenal of Doom
19. Larry Boy 44
20. Mario Kart
timschochet
Footballguy
Flysack, you're both right and wrong here, IMO. Everything you write about genre fiction is true enough, and it basically corresponds with my criticism of these choices being selected. And I agree in general with you about complex fiction.But you ignore the fact that what you call complex fiction can also be pretentious fiction, and that there's a thin line between the two, based upon the reader. Personally, I find Joseph Conrad, for instance, to be complex fiction: not easy to read, but worth it. I find Joyce and Proust (what I've read) to be pretentious fiction.
Now my jab at you and Krista being "literary snobs" is somewhat of a joke, of course, but there is in every joke a small element of truth, and there is here too. Yes, I do prefer accessibility, but not the watering down of the human soul (in itself a pretty pretentious statement, wouldn't you agree?) The best writers who ever existed, IMO, are able to be accessible AND complex. (Shakespeare and Dickens, for example.) That Joyce and Proust and a few others fail the accessibility test does not take them off the top 20 list, but it should place them below authors who have mastered both. I could offer you the ultimate example of this in a slim American novel of which you're well acquainted, but it's author has not been selected.
The Real Hipster Doofus
Footballguy
I'm assuming people either missed this pick or don't know who he is, probably the latter. Excellent pick.
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Ozymandias
Footballguy
I am late in getting back to you on this. It is an outstanding pick, of someone who is virtually unknown to most people. In fact, Tim says that Mohammed was greater than Jesus because Christianity developed because of two people. However, the spread of Islam, which came more by the sword than by the word, was made possible because of Khalid's military prowess. Conquered peoples were often given the option of submitting to Islam, or dying. Guess what they chose? Khalid was an outstanding military leader, innovative in tactics, and relying on surprise and swift movement.
Fennis
Footballguy
There can never be enough jug playing in orchestra! If they only played the washboard too. That was fun.
10.13--Marshall of the Soviet Union Georgi Zhukov--Military
Another fine addition to Team Pinko, Gen. Zhukov was the military leader of the Red Army during The Great Patriotic War against the Nazi invaders of the Motherland, and then led the Red Army throughout the most dangerous days of the Cold War. His innovative battle tactics and adroit political skills resulted in the defense of Moscow (where his logistical feat ot moving millions of men into defensive positions was the major factor in turing back the Nazis at the gates of the city), the defeat and annihaltaion of the German Sixth Army at Stalingrad, victory in the largest tank battle ever fought at Kursk, the lifting of the Siege of Leningrad and the final push through Poland and into Germany, culminating in the capture of Berlin and the link-up with Allied forces and the beginning of the partition of Germany.
Zhukov was awarded many decorations for personal bravery and was a fighting general in every sense of the word. But he was also a loyal Party Member, eventually becoming a full member of the Central Committee and defense minister for a short time. Although closely linked to Comrade Stalin, he nonetheless has never been implicated in any of the excesses of Stalin's rule. He was outspoken to Stalin and it isn't going to far to say that without Zhukov's success in the East, the Normandy Invasion and the rest of WWII in the west would have gone very differently.
So y'all can have your Rommels and Montgomerys, your Hannibals and Caesars. Team Pinko will proudly take Georgy the Victory Bringer as it's military leader!
Another fine addition to Team Pinko, Gen. Zhukov was the military leader of the Red Army during The Great Patriotic War against the Nazi invaders of the Motherland, and then led the Red Army throughout the most dangerous days of the Cold War. His innovative battle tactics and adroit political skills resulted in the defense of Moscow (where his logistical feat ot moving millions of men into defensive positions was the major factor in turing back the Nazis at the gates of the city), the defeat and annihaltaion of the German Sixth Army at Stalingrad, victory in the largest tank battle ever fought at Kursk, the lifting of the Siege of Leningrad and the final push through Poland and into Germany, culminating in the capture of Berlin and the link-up with Allied forces and the beginning of the partition of Germany.
Zhukov was awarded many decorations for personal bravery and was a fighting general in every sense of the word. But he was also a loyal Party Member, eventually becoming a full member of the Central Committee and defense minister for a short time. Although closely linked to Comrade Stalin, he nonetheless has never been implicated in any of the excesses of Stalin's rule. He was outspoken to Stalin and it isn't going to far to say that without Zhukov's success in the East, the Normandy Invasion and the rest of WWII in the west would have gone very differently.
So y'all can have your Rommels and Montgomerys, your Hannibals and Caesars. Team Pinko will proudly take Georgy the Victory Bringer as it's military leader!
dparker713
Footballguy
Genre fiction is called genre fiction because its easier to find books in a library or bookstore when we seperate things into categories. Our society feels a compulsive need to categorize as much as possible. It makes things generally more convenient, but creates some platypuses - things that just dont neatly fit into categories. If Shakespeare didnt have his own section, the Tempest would qualify for a genre work, as would the aforementioned A Christmas Carol. In more modern examples, the setting may be of paramount importance to the story, and I see no reason why this is a bad thing. We are social creatures and an examination of our interactions with our environment, especially in this day and age, are an integral part of the human condition. And part of the point of great fiction is to take something complex and examine it in such a way wherein it is comprehensible. This doesnt mean it needs to be obvious or easy to understand, but it should certainly be more accessible than something like a philosophy treatise. I can write a contract with wherefores and hences and all sorts of legalese - but its possible to make better contracts without leaning on those crutches of pretentiousness, if you truly understand your subject.
Fennis
Footballguy
If I follow the bearded criteria he will be a home run. Castro did lead an important revolution. The man is a survivor. Whatever he did, other dictators should look towards, because how many last as long as he did?
If only FDR had sent him $10, Cuba may have been different.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...er_complete.jpg
The other story is that Castro was turned down in a tryout for the Washington Senators baseball team because his curve wasn't good enough. If he'd been signed to play beisibol, who know whoat would have happened.
Fennis
Footballguy
Very recently I found out that has never been proven. I thought for sure it was real (and honestly I still kinda do)http://www.snopes.com/sports/baseball/castro.asp
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Ozymandias
Footballguy
Obviously the best Soviet Commander to have come out of WW2. He was pivotal in the Battle of Stalingrad, and was responsible for the decision to make the Battle of Kursk an initial defense in depth, to be followed by an attack when the Germans had exhausted themselves. Kursk, even more than Stalingrad, doomed the Germans. However, his role in the actual battle is unclear; some have claimed he arrived late and was just an observer. However, he was responsible for the plan, and probably convinced Stalin. Took the Red Army all the way to Berlin.The Soviets were careless with human life. That's why Stalingrad was such a meat grinder, where it is said that a newly arrived enlisted man had a life expectancy of 24 hours, and an officer, of three days. Zhukov once told XXXXXXXX that his preferred method of clearing a minefield was to run a brigade of troops through it.
P.S. Don't tell me I'm spotlighting. He ain't gonna make my list.
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Mario Kart
Footballguy
Please don't spot light. Anymore.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Please refrain from criticizing. Any more.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
I doubt you can find much criticism by me in the thread. However, I could find much spot lighting, if I were to look, by you and others in the same thread.
Doug B
Footballguy
Throwing out names that you don't think are Top-20 material is still spotlighting. If drafters are going to make mistakes, they should be allowed to make them. Now the drafters that had the spotlit guy on the radar (and there are some, I guarantee) will "know" not to draft him.
Otherwise, each judge could have just submitted Top-20 lists and everyone could have used them as cheatsheets
Otherwise, each judge could have just submitted Top-20 lists and everyone could have used them as cheatsheets
Ozymandias
Footballguy
In retrospect, I think you and Mario have a fair point. So I will apologize. However, while I have nothing but admiration for XXXXXX people skills as an overall commander, and his handling of the prima donnas on his team, as battlefield commander I find him less than compelling. But someone else might have felt differently.Throwing out names that you don't think are Top-20 material is still spotlighting. If drafters are going to make mistakes, they should be allowed to make them. Now the drafters that had the spotlit guy on the radar (and there are some, I guarantee) will "know" not to draft him.Otherwise, each judge could have just submitted Top-20 lists and everyone could have used them as cheatsheets
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Mario Kart
Footballguy
Ozymandias said:In retrospect, I think you and Mario have a fair point. So I will apologize. However, while I have nothing but admiration for (A great pick in this draft) people skills as an overall commander, and his handling of the prima donnas on his team, as battlefield commander I find him less than compelling. But someone else might have felt differently.Doug B said:Throwing out names that you don't think are Top-20 material is still spotlighting. If drafters are going to make mistakes, they should be allowed to make them. Now the drafters that had the spotlit guy on the radar (and there are some, I guarantee) will "know" not to draft him.Otherwise, each judge could have just submitted Top-20 lists and everyone could have used them as cheatsheets
Thorn
Footballguy
Lately my draft strategy has been to pick from a category where I am down to the end of my list. Partly this is like VBD, but partly it's not wanting to do research to come up with 5 more names. Therefore...
10.14 Johann Strauss, II, Composer
10.14 Johann Strauss, II, Composer
At least I've got Berlin beat.PS thanks to Mario for the PM.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
I'd already mentioned him once, he's off the charts, ok?Don't beat a dead horse.Ozymandias said:In retrospect, I think you and Mario have a fair point. So I will apologize. However, while I have nothing but admiration for (A great pick in this draft) people skills as an overall commander, and his handling of the prima donnas on his team, as battlefield commander I find him less than compelling. But someone else might have felt differently.Doug B said:Throwing out names that you don't think are Top-20 material is still spotlighting. If drafters are going to make mistakes, they should be allowed to make them. Now the drafters that had the spotlit guy on the radar (and there are some, I guarantee) will "know" not to draft him.Otherwise, each judge could have just submitted Top-20 lists and everyone could have used them as cheatsheets
Thorn
Footballguy
Doug B said:Throwing out names that you don't think are Top-20 material is still spotlighting. If drafters are going to make mistakes, they should be allowed to make them. Now the drafters that had the spotlit guy on the radar (and there are some, I guarantee) will "know" not to draft him.Otherwise, each judge could have just submitted Top-20 lists and everyone could have used them as cheatsheets
There is such a thing as anti-spotlighting. It's like saying, "whatever you do, don't pick X!" Just sayin.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
15. Yankee23fan - turn to pick
16. Acer FC - on the deck
17. FUBAR - in the hole
18. Arsenal of Doom
19. Larry Boy 44
20. Mario Kart
16. Acer FC - on the deck
17. FUBAR - in the hole
18. Arsenal of Doom
19. Larry Boy 44
20. Mario Kart
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