Mjolnirs
Footballguy
Tim, I may have missed it while skimming through the replies, and if so I apologize, did you address this point?
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World's Greatest Draft (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
I adressed it when I wrote about Judas. Judas didn't leave us any works to judge. If he had, I would have ranked him based on that work, the way I ranked Lao Tzu based on the Tao. Leonidas I bumped up a little based on Ozymandius' analysis.
timschochet
Footballguy
Thank you Big Rocks. Don't forget that you're not to rank Galileo; I'll do that myself.
timschochet
Footballguy
I think there are four scientists that should clearly be at the top of the list. Here they are, in aphabetical order:
Neils Bohr
Charles Darwin
Albert Einstein
Isaac Newton
Neils Bohr
Charles Darwin
Albert Einstein
Isaac Newton
Orange Crush
Footballguy
Inventor Rankings
Factors taken into consideration for judging:
1) The influence on the shape and direction of world history by his invention(s). This is by far the most important factor, as I said early in this thread. So someone who invented something completely by accident, or who gets the credit for an invention even though others significantly contributed to it could still end up with a decent score if his invention changed the course of history. While this is the primary factor, it isn’t the only factor.
2) Overall quantity of achievements, i.e. did he have the ‘inventor’s spirit’ where he couldn’t help but apply science to achieve pragmatic improvements over his entire life, or was he a ‘one hit wonder’?
3) Ingenuity – how ahead of his time was he? Or how close were others to achieving the same ends. It’s important to be first, it’s more impressive to be far ahead of the curve.
4) Level of individual perseverance. Edison said that “Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.” Was the inventor the lone individual who went into his garage with an idea and emerged with a whole invention, or was he one of several people working on the project? Obviously if an invention just isn’t capable of being done solo, that will be taken into account.
I have to admit that this was much harder than I originally thinking. Several of the inventors chosen didnt create their inventions, but made huge improvements to them that made them commercially viable. Do I take points off for not being the creator? I think that is appropriate, but it's the long-lasting influence of their actions that count the most. So therefore, a lot of 'improvers' are going to rank pretty high.
Top Tier –
I think the top four selections do belong in the highest tier of inventors. The problem is that we really don’t know that much about either Gutenberg or Cai Lun. Was the printing press and paper their only inventions? Did they have help with their creations? If I am to downgrade them based on our historical ignorance, is that fair? In the end, I decided I couldn’t downgrade them. Also, I couldn't help but describe someone who I believe to be top tier who went undrafted.
1. Johannes Gutenberg – thatguy - Invented the most historically significant invention, the printing press. Because of this, the Catholic Church’s monopoly on knowledge was broken. Ideas were easy to become widely spread and the accumulation of knowledge became the birth rite of every person who could learn to read. Gutenberg’s invention led directly to the Renaissance, and Western civilization’s great leap forward towards world domination.
2. Cai Lun – Yankee23Fan - Invented a paper making process in 105 A.D. If that had been so easy to do, then you’d think some European would have come up with it before Lun’s process was introduced there over a thousand years later. Paper allowed China to develop their civilization during the first millennia, and later the same to the Arab world as the process slowly made its way West. The only reason Lun isn’t #1 is that there is some concern that the invention wasn’t entirely his.
3. Nikola Tesla – Herbert the Hippo - The epitome of the engineer inventor. Tesla was shockingly ahead of his time in the development of many of his inventions, and the sheer breadth of his work is awesome. He has been described as “the man who shed light over the face of the earth,” “the man who invented the 20th century,” and the victor in the “war of currents.” While I didn’t use it as my only source, everyone should check out Tesla’s wiki page. It’s insanely long (longer even than Bob Dylan’s).
4. Thomas Edison – AcerFC - The light bulb, the phonograph, and over a thousand other invention patents were held by Edison. But perhaps most importantly, Edison invented the first industrial research laboratory. Yes, that means he got a lot of credit for the work of his employees. But there’s no denying that he was the primary instigator for his biggest inventions, and his influence on the world was profound.
Geber, or Jabir Ibn Hayyan - *Undrafted* - A scientist and inventor in the 8th century, known as the Father of Chemistry. Most influential on the world (and probably a few members of this board), Geber invented the process of distillation. He is credited with the invention of over twenty different types of chemical laboratory equipment, such as the alembic and retort, as well as different chemical substances which are still used today. He discovered sulfuric acid, and by distilling it together with various salts, Jabir discovered hydrochloric acid (from salt) and nitric acid (from saltpeter). By combining the two, he invented aqua regia, one of the few substances that can dissolve gold. Besides its obvious applications to gold extraction and purification, this discovery would fuel the dreams and despair of alchemists for the next thousand years. He is also credited with the discovery of citric acid (the sour component of lemons and other unripe fruits), acetic acid (from vinegar), and tartaric acid (from wine-making residues). Jabir applied his chemical knowledge to the improvement of many manufacturing processes, such as making steel and other metals, preventing rust, engraving gold, dyeing and waterproofing cloth, tanning leather, and the chemical analysis of pigments and other substances. He developed the use of manganese dioxide in glassmaking, to counteract the green tinge produced by iron — a process that is still used today. He noted that boiling wine released a flammable vapor, thus paving the way for the discovery of ethanol.
Factors taken into consideration for judging:
1) The influence on the shape and direction of world history by his invention(s). This is by far the most important factor, as I said early in this thread. So someone who invented something completely by accident, or who gets the credit for an invention even though others significantly contributed to it could still end up with a decent score if his invention changed the course of history. While this is the primary factor, it isn’t the only factor.
2) Overall quantity of achievements, i.e. did he have the ‘inventor’s spirit’ where he couldn’t help but apply science to achieve pragmatic improvements over his entire life, or was he a ‘one hit wonder’?
3) Ingenuity – how ahead of his time was he? Or how close were others to achieving the same ends. It’s important to be first, it’s more impressive to be far ahead of the curve.
4) Level of individual perseverance. Edison said that “Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.” Was the inventor the lone individual who went into his garage with an idea and emerged with a whole invention, or was he one of several people working on the project? Obviously if an invention just isn’t capable of being done solo, that will be taken into account.
I have to admit that this was much harder than I originally thinking. Several of the inventors chosen didnt create their inventions, but made huge improvements to them that made them commercially viable. Do I take points off for not being the creator? I think that is appropriate, but it's the long-lasting influence of their actions that count the most. So therefore, a lot of 'improvers' are going to rank pretty high.
Top Tier –
I think the top four selections do belong in the highest tier of inventors. The problem is that we really don’t know that much about either Gutenberg or Cai Lun. Was the printing press and paper their only inventions? Did they have help with their creations? If I am to downgrade them based on our historical ignorance, is that fair? In the end, I decided I couldn’t downgrade them. Also, I couldn't help but describe someone who I believe to be top tier who went undrafted.
1. Johannes Gutenberg – thatguy - Invented the most historically significant invention, the printing press. Because of this, the Catholic Church’s monopoly on knowledge was broken. Ideas were easy to become widely spread and the accumulation of knowledge became the birth rite of every person who could learn to read. Gutenberg’s invention led directly to the Renaissance, and Western civilization’s great leap forward towards world domination.
2. Cai Lun – Yankee23Fan - Invented a paper making process in 105 A.D. If that had been so easy to do, then you’d think some European would have come up with it before Lun’s process was introduced there over a thousand years later. Paper allowed China to develop their civilization during the first millennia, and later the same to the Arab world as the process slowly made its way West. The only reason Lun isn’t #1 is that there is some concern that the invention wasn’t entirely his.
3. Nikola Tesla – Herbert the Hippo - The epitome of the engineer inventor. Tesla was shockingly ahead of his time in the development of many of his inventions, and the sheer breadth of his work is awesome. He has been described as “the man who shed light over the face of the earth,” “the man who invented the 20th century,” and the victor in the “war of currents.” While I didn’t use it as my only source, everyone should check out Tesla’s wiki page. It’s insanely long (longer even than Bob Dylan’s).
4. Thomas Edison – AcerFC - The light bulb, the phonograph, and over a thousand other invention patents were held by Edison. But perhaps most importantly, Edison invented the first industrial research laboratory. Yes, that means he got a lot of credit for the work of his employees. But there’s no denying that he was the primary instigator for his biggest inventions, and his influence on the world was profound.
Geber, or Jabir Ibn Hayyan - *Undrafted* - A scientist and inventor in the 8th century, known as the Father of Chemistry. Most influential on the world (and probably a few members of this board), Geber invented the process of distillation. He is credited with the invention of over twenty different types of chemical laboratory equipment, such as the alembic and retort, as well as different chemical substances which are still used today. He discovered sulfuric acid, and by distilling it together with various salts, Jabir discovered hydrochloric acid (from salt) and nitric acid (from saltpeter). By combining the two, he invented aqua regia, one of the few substances that can dissolve gold. Besides its obvious applications to gold extraction and purification, this discovery would fuel the dreams and despair of alchemists for the next thousand years. He is also credited with the discovery of citric acid (the sour component of lemons and other unripe fruits), acetic acid (from vinegar), and tartaric acid (from wine-making residues). Jabir applied his chemical knowledge to the improvement of many manufacturing processes, such as making steel and other metals, preventing rust, engraving gold, dyeing and waterproofing cloth, tanning leather, and the chemical analysis of pigments and other substances. He developed the use of manganese dioxide in glassmaking, to counteract the green tinge produced by iron — a process that is still used today. He noted that boiling wine released a flammable vapor, thus paving the way for the discovery of ethanol.
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
Orange Crush
Footballguy
Second Tier
5. Alexander Graham Bell – Thorn - Everyone knows Bell is the inventor of the telephone, opening the world up to today’s mass communications. But with the Volta prize money for that invention, he established in Washington, D.C., the Volta Laboratory, where the first successful sound recorder, the Graphophone, was produced. Bell invented the photophone, which transmitted speech by light rays; the audiometer, another invention for the deaf; the induction balance, used to locate metallic objects in the human body; and the flat and the cylindrical wax recorders for phonographs. He investigated the nature and causes of deafness and made an elaborate study of its heredity. Thus Bell receives high marks in all factors.
Leonardo Da Vinci – drafted as Painter - Leonardo's great reputation in science and invention is posthumous, based on the translation and publication of his coded notebooks in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. In his lifetime, in addition to his famous paintings, he was known for his engineering of canal locks, cathedrals, and engines of war. The notebooks reveal Leonardo's correct interpretations of anatomy, explanations of physical concepts such as inertia, and sketches for working parachutes and helicopters, all well in advance of those ideas entering the scientific record.
6. Charles Babbage - DougB - Babbage was a 19th century mathematician and inventor whose calculating machines earned him a top spot in the history of mechanical computing. Babbage's early career was devoted to practical applied science, particularly in manufacturing. But he is most famous for his work on what he called the Difference Engine and, later, the Analytical Engine. Babbage created the first reliable actuarial tables, invented skeleton keys and the locomotive cowcatcher. In 1847 he invented an ophthalmoscope to study the retina, but didn't announce the invention and didn't get any credit for it.
Heron of Alexandria – drafted as Wildcard – The greatest inventor of antiquity. It boggles the mind what the world would have been like had his inventions gained popular use. He invented a steam engine, a windwheel, a “rocket-like” engine, a vending machine, the syringe, the force pump (which was widely used to fight fires), and a water fountain operating on self-contained hydrostatic energy.
7. James Watt – Mad Sweeney - While he didn’t invent the steam engine, his improvements were so dramatic and his version became so widespread that he was often mischaracterized as its inventor. Watt's many mechanical advances earned him several patents, and his engines were used for coal mining, textile manufacturing, transportation and a host of other industrial uses. Watt is also remembered for measuring the power of his steam engine: his test with a strong horse resulted in his determination that a "horsepower" was 550 foot-pounds per second. The unit of power in the metric system is called the watt; one horsepower equals 746 watts. Watt gets the high ranking because his invention was so instrumental in the progression of the industrial revolution.
5. Alexander Graham Bell – Thorn - Everyone knows Bell is the inventor of the telephone, opening the world up to today’s mass communications. But with the Volta prize money for that invention, he established in Washington, D.C., the Volta Laboratory, where the first successful sound recorder, the Graphophone, was produced. Bell invented the photophone, which transmitted speech by light rays; the audiometer, another invention for the deaf; the induction balance, used to locate metallic objects in the human body; and the flat and the cylindrical wax recorders for phonographs. He investigated the nature and causes of deafness and made an elaborate study of its heredity. Thus Bell receives high marks in all factors.
Leonardo Da Vinci – drafted as Painter - Leonardo's great reputation in science and invention is posthumous, based on the translation and publication of his coded notebooks in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. In his lifetime, in addition to his famous paintings, he was known for his engineering of canal locks, cathedrals, and engines of war. The notebooks reveal Leonardo's correct interpretations of anatomy, explanations of physical concepts such as inertia, and sketches for working parachutes and helicopters, all well in advance of those ideas entering the scientific record.
6. Charles Babbage - DougB - Babbage was a 19th century mathematician and inventor whose calculating machines earned him a top spot in the history of mechanical computing. Babbage's early career was devoted to practical applied science, particularly in manufacturing. But he is most famous for his work on what he called the Difference Engine and, later, the Analytical Engine. Babbage created the first reliable actuarial tables, invented skeleton keys and the locomotive cowcatcher. In 1847 he invented an ophthalmoscope to study the retina, but didn't announce the invention and didn't get any credit for it.
Heron of Alexandria – drafted as Wildcard – The greatest inventor of antiquity. It boggles the mind what the world would have been like had his inventions gained popular use. He invented a steam engine, a windwheel, a “rocket-like” engine, a vending machine, the syringe, the force pump (which was widely used to fight fires), and a water fountain operating on self-contained hydrostatic energy.
7. James Watt – Mad Sweeney - While he didn’t invent the steam engine, his improvements were so dramatic and his version became so widespread that he was often mischaracterized as its inventor. Watt's many mechanical advances earned him several patents, and his engines were used for coal mining, textile manufacturing, transportation and a host of other industrial uses. Watt is also remembered for measuring the power of his steam engine: his test with a strong horse resulted in his determination that a "horsepower" was 550 foot-pounds per second. The unit of power in the metric system is called the watt; one horsepower equals 746 watts. Watt gets the high ranking because his invention was so instrumental in the progression of the industrial revolution.
krista4
Footballguy
A perfect top tier.
Orange Crush
Footballguy
Third Tier – these guys are so close that I sometimes thought I should just randomly create their order:
8. Karl Benz – Arsenal of Doom - a German engine designer and automobile engineer, generally regarded as the inventor of the gasoline-powered automobile and pioneering founder of the automobile manufacturer, Mercedes-Benz. Other German contemporaries, Gottlieb Daimler and Wilhelm Maybach working as partners, also worked on similar types of inventions, without knowledge of the work of the other, but Benz patented his work first and, after that, patented all of the processes that made the internal combustion engine feasible for use in automobiles. And our planet has never seen breathable air since.
9. Wilbur Wright – Andy Dufresne - I was tempted to rank him much lower as he shares the invention of the airplane with his brother Orville. I was very curious to see his selection instead of Orville as well since my research for the GAD suggested that Orville was the more technically minded brother who worked much harder in their later years to make improvements to their airplane designs while Wilbur was more engaged with the business side. Nevertheless, overcoming those drawbacks, the impact of flight is so great that Wilbur still gets a top 10 ranking.
10. Isambard Kingdom Brunel – LarryBoy - I had never heard of him before this draft, and yet reading up on him he is considered the greatest engineer in British history. Still, I was very tempted to rank him poorly as a ‘wrong category’ kind of pick since being a great engineer doesn’t necessarily translate to great inventor. However, the only way a lot of the names on this list belong is because their inventions were improvements rather than new creations, and Brunel improved everything that he worked on. All of his many inventions improved transportation, from his rail lines and rail cars, to his bridges and tunnels, to his three transatlantic steamships (the first of their kind). Brunel’s inventions kept England an industrial and global power during his life.
11. Henry Bessemer – higgins - In 1830 Bessemer set up his own business in London for producing art-metals, fusible alloys, and bronze powder. He was a prolific inventor, both before and after his key contribution to the iron and steel industries. He invented machines for composing type and for working graphite for pencils; at age 20 he was an exhibitor at the Royal Academy. In 1854, Bessemer sought an iron tougher than any then available and experimentally fused blister steel with pig iron. Apparently it was during these trials that he noted the effect of air in removing carbon from iron, a process essential for its conversion to steel. In 1855 he successfully produced a low-grade steel from molten pig iron in a side-blown fixed converter without any external source of heat. While others were unable to reproduce his results at first, eventually solutions were found and Bessemer’s process reduced the production price of steel by a factor of 5, dramatically pushing forward the industrial revolution.
12. Samuel Morse – BobbyLayne - The inventor of the telegraph, or was he? His knowledge of electricity was rudimentary as he was actually an artist. But he came up with the idea for a telegraph after a conversation on a trip introduced him to the electromagnet, which he then worked on with a friend for years. He successfully petitioned Congress for a test of his device, and then eventually got a patent and made a mint. So many phases of the telegraph, however, had already been anticipated by other inventors throughout Europe that Morse's originality as the inventor of telegraphy has been questioned; even the Morse code did not differ greatly from earlier codes, including the semaphore.
13. John Ericsson – DCThunder - John Ericsson invented the ship propeller and incorporated the landmark device into his design for the Civil War ironclad the Monitor. In 1826 he moved to London, where he showed the breadth of his engineering genius by developing or improving transmission of power by compressed air, new types of steam boilers, condensers for marine steam engines (so ships could travel farther), placing warship engines below the water line (for protection against shell fire), the steam fire-engine, the design and construction of a steam locomotive (which competed with the historic Rocket, the first steam powered locomotive), an apparatus that made salt from brine, superheated steam engines, the flame or 'caloric' engine. His most enduring invention was the screw propeller, which is still the main form of marine propulsion. Ericsson’s double screw propeller made warships and cargo ships faster because they were no longer dependent on sails. His propeller also became the basis for screw propellers on modern day submarines, and the Wright brothers used his basic idea to design airplane propellers.
8. Karl Benz – Arsenal of Doom - a German engine designer and automobile engineer, generally regarded as the inventor of the gasoline-powered automobile and pioneering founder of the automobile manufacturer, Mercedes-Benz. Other German contemporaries, Gottlieb Daimler and Wilhelm Maybach working as partners, also worked on similar types of inventions, without knowledge of the work of the other, but Benz patented his work first and, after that, patented all of the processes that made the internal combustion engine feasible for use in automobiles. And our planet has never seen breathable air since.
9. Wilbur Wright – Andy Dufresne - I was tempted to rank him much lower as he shares the invention of the airplane with his brother Orville. I was very curious to see his selection instead of Orville as well since my research for the GAD suggested that Orville was the more technically minded brother who worked much harder in their later years to make improvements to their airplane designs while Wilbur was more engaged with the business side. Nevertheless, overcoming those drawbacks, the impact of flight is so great that Wilbur still gets a top 10 ranking.
10. Isambard Kingdom Brunel – LarryBoy - I had never heard of him before this draft, and yet reading up on him he is considered the greatest engineer in British history. Still, I was very tempted to rank him poorly as a ‘wrong category’ kind of pick since being a great engineer doesn’t necessarily translate to great inventor. However, the only way a lot of the names on this list belong is because their inventions were improvements rather than new creations, and Brunel improved everything that he worked on. All of his many inventions improved transportation, from his rail lines and rail cars, to his bridges and tunnels, to his three transatlantic steamships (the first of their kind). Brunel’s inventions kept England an industrial and global power during his life.
11. Henry Bessemer – higgins - In 1830 Bessemer set up his own business in London for producing art-metals, fusible alloys, and bronze powder. He was a prolific inventor, both before and after his key contribution to the iron and steel industries. He invented machines for composing type and for working graphite for pencils; at age 20 he was an exhibitor at the Royal Academy. In 1854, Bessemer sought an iron tougher than any then available and experimentally fused blister steel with pig iron. Apparently it was during these trials that he noted the effect of air in removing carbon from iron, a process essential for its conversion to steel. In 1855 he successfully produced a low-grade steel from molten pig iron in a side-blown fixed converter without any external source of heat. While others were unable to reproduce his results at first, eventually solutions were found and Bessemer’s process reduced the production price of steel by a factor of 5, dramatically pushing forward the industrial revolution.
12. Samuel Morse – BobbyLayne - The inventor of the telegraph, or was he? His knowledge of electricity was rudimentary as he was actually an artist. But he came up with the idea for a telegraph after a conversation on a trip introduced him to the electromagnet, which he then worked on with a friend for years. He successfully petitioned Congress for a test of his device, and then eventually got a patent and made a mint. So many phases of the telegraph, however, had already been anticipated by other inventors throughout Europe that Morse's originality as the inventor of telegraphy has been questioned; even the Morse code did not differ greatly from earlier codes, including the semaphore.
13. John Ericsson – DCThunder - John Ericsson invented the ship propeller and incorporated the landmark device into his design for the Civil War ironclad the Monitor. In 1826 he moved to London, where he showed the breadth of his engineering genius by developing or improving transmission of power by compressed air, new types of steam boilers, condensers for marine steam engines (so ships could travel farther), placing warship engines below the water line (for protection against shell fire), the steam fire-engine, the design and construction of a steam locomotive (which competed with the historic Rocket, the first steam powered locomotive), an apparatus that made salt from brine, superheated steam engines, the flame or 'caloric' engine. His most enduring invention was the screw propeller, which is still the main form of marine propulsion. Ericsson’s double screw propeller made warships and cargo ships faster because they were no longer dependent on sails. His propeller also became the basis for screw propellers on modern day submarines, and the Wright brothers used his basic idea to design airplane propellers.
Orange Crush
Footballguy
Fourth Tier
14. Guglielmo Marconi – MarioKart - Depending on your point of view, Marconi either invented or most popularized wireless telegraphy early in the 20th century. One of the founding fathers of radio communication, Marconi got interested in 1894 in the electromagnetic wave experiments by H. R. Hertz. Working at his father's estate, Marconi devised a working receiver and in 1895 sent and received radio waves over greater and greater distances. When the Italian government showed little interest in his operation, Marconi went to England, where he founded his own wireless telegraph company in 1897. He was awarded a patent for "tuned or syntonic telegraphy" (patent no. 7777) and set about proving that wireless telegraphy could be a benefit to society as well as a profitable enterprise. By 1902 Marconi had established that wireless communication was possible even across the Atlantic Ocean, even though his claim of the first successful transatlantic signal (from England to Newfoundland, December of 1901) was never independently verified. For patents in the U.S., Marconi was in competition with Nikola Tesla, who held the first patents until the United States Patent Office reversed itself in 1904 and gave Marconi credit for the radio. The Supreme Court (much) later reversed this decision, giving Tesla credit for radio’s invention.
15. George Eastman – MisterCIA – Eastman began his career in banking and insurance but turned from this to photography. In 1880 he perfected the dry-plate photographic film and began manufacturing this. He produced a transparent roll film in 1884 and in the same year founded the Eastman Dry Plate and Film Company. In 1888 he introduced the simple hand-held box camera that made popular photography possible. The Kodak camera with a roll of transparent film was cheap enough for all pockets and could be used by a child. It was followed by the Brownie camera, which cost just one dollar. I wish I could rank him higher but next to the above heavyweights, his influence doesn’t measure up.
16. Louis Braille – John Madden’s Lunchbox - Louis Braille was a French musician and educator who developed the raised-point writing system for the blind that bears his name. Braille became blind as a result of an eye injury at the age of three. Despite his impairment, he went to a regular school, then earned acceptance to a state school for the blind. By the time he was 15 years old he had perfected a system of embossed dots that could be used to translate text through the sense of touch. He first published his system in 1829, but it wasn't until the last years of his life that it became accepted. His long-lasting influence was dramatic to those who needed it, but in the overall scheme of things, just not so much.
17. Tim Berners-Lee – Usual21 - Tim Berners-Lee is the primary inventor of the World Wide Web, the system of text links and multimedia capabilities that made the Internet accessible to mass audiences. Lee wrote the original Web software himself in 1990 and made it available on the Internet in 1991. He joined MIT's Laboratory for Computer Science in 1994 and remains a leading authority on Internet issues. I really struggled with this ranking the most. The internet has completely revolutionized the world in just a few short years, after all we’re engaging in this endeavor together because of it, yet in reading up on him it seems that a lot of the software and protocols were already there and he just pieced them together.
18. George Washington Carver – FUBAR - His attempts to find crop alternatives to cotton led him to the peanut; eventually he created more than 325 products from the humble legume, almost all of them completely worthless. Carver obsessed over the peanut as a means to free the South from the backbreaking labor required for harvesting cotton. While he was a prolific inventor, his influence is almost entirely as an example for civil rights and his inventions almost not at all.
14. Guglielmo Marconi – MarioKart - Depending on your point of view, Marconi either invented or most popularized wireless telegraphy early in the 20th century. One of the founding fathers of radio communication, Marconi got interested in 1894 in the electromagnetic wave experiments by H. R. Hertz. Working at his father's estate, Marconi devised a working receiver and in 1895 sent and received radio waves over greater and greater distances. When the Italian government showed little interest in his operation, Marconi went to England, where he founded his own wireless telegraph company in 1897. He was awarded a patent for "tuned or syntonic telegraphy" (patent no. 7777) and set about proving that wireless telegraphy could be a benefit to society as well as a profitable enterprise. By 1902 Marconi had established that wireless communication was possible even across the Atlantic Ocean, even though his claim of the first successful transatlantic signal (from England to Newfoundland, December of 1901) was never independently verified. For patents in the U.S., Marconi was in competition with Nikola Tesla, who held the first patents until the United States Patent Office reversed itself in 1904 and gave Marconi credit for the radio. The Supreme Court (much) later reversed this decision, giving Tesla credit for radio’s invention.
15. George Eastman – MisterCIA – Eastman began his career in banking and insurance but turned from this to photography. In 1880 he perfected the dry-plate photographic film and began manufacturing this. He produced a transparent roll film in 1884 and in the same year founded the Eastman Dry Plate and Film Company. In 1888 he introduced the simple hand-held box camera that made popular photography possible. The Kodak camera with a roll of transparent film was cheap enough for all pockets and could be used by a child. It was followed by the Brownie camera, which cost just one dollar. I wish I could rank him higher but next to the above heavyweights, his influence doesn’t measure up.
16. Louis Braille – John Madden’s Lunchbox - Louis Braille was a French musician and educator who developed the raised-point writing system for the blind that bears his name. Braille became blind as a result of an eye injury at the age of three. Despite his impairment, he went to a regular school, then earned acceptance to a state school for the blind. By the time he was 15 years old he had perfected a system of embossed dots that could be used to translate text through the sense of touch. He first published his system in 1829, but it wasn't until the last years of his life that it became accepted. His long-lasting influence was dramatic to those who needed it, but in the overall scheme of things, just not so much.
17. Tim Berners-Lee – Usual21 - Tim Berners-Lee is the primary inventor of the World Wide Web, the system of text links and multimedia capabilities that made the Internet accessible to mass audiences. Lee wrote the original Web software himself in 1990 and made it available on the Internet in 1991. He joined MIT's Laboratory for Computer Science in 1994 and remains a leading authority on Internet issues. I really struggled with this ranking the most. The internet has completely revolutionized the world in just a few short years, after all we’re engaging in this endeavor together because of it, yet in reading up on him it seems that a lot of the software and protocols were already there and he just pieced them together.
18. George Washington Carver – FUBAR - His attempts to find crop alternatives to cotton led him to the peanut; eventually he created more than 325 products from the humble legume, almost all of them completely worthless. Carver obsessed over the peanut as a means to free the South from the backbreaking labor required for harvesting cotton. While he was a prolific inventor, his influence is almost entirely as an example for civil rights and his inventions almost not at all.
Abrantes
Footballguy
Considered him over Henry, but he's an extremely nebulous figure, and a few of his most crucial texts have been attributed to others publishing under his name, so I couldn't justify taking him. If you consider everything attributed to him to be fact, then he definitely belongs here, though.
Orange Crush
Footballguy
Bottom Tier
19. Joseph Henry – Abrantes – This is the only pick that doesn’t necessarily belong in the category. Henry improved the electromagnet and discovered self-inductance, though Michael Faraday published first and got the credit. It was this invention which led directly to the telegraph, and then other world changing inventions that came afterwards like the But really he’s a scientist, not an inventor. Henry also worked on an electric motor and an electric relay, which allowed the telegraph to work over long distances. Henry is half inventor, half scientist. Hopefully he’ll do better in the voting.
20. Alfred Nobel – Big Rocks – When I posted in my judging criteria in the beginning of the thread that a person who invented something accidentally that still had a big influence could still score well, Nobel was who I had in mind. His assistant invented nitroglycerin. Then Nobel left it overnight where he shouldn’t and the resulting explosion killed five people including his younger brother. There’s no question that dynamite is an incredibly useful device with huge military applications as well as in mining and construction. But in doing these rankings I realized that all of the inventions here are hugely influential, and dynamite ranks rather low among them. Combined with the other factors, Nobel comes in last.
Others who could have been drafted include Alan Turing, Eli Whitney, Yoshiro Nakamatsu, and Louis Daguerre.
19. Joseph Henry – Abrantes – This is the only pick that doesn’t necessarily belong in the category. Henry improved the electromagnet and discovered self-inductance, though Michael Faraday published first and got the credit. It was this invention which led directly to the telegraph, and then other world changing inventions that came afterwards like the But really he’s a scientist, not an inventor. Henry also worked on an electric motor and an electric relay, which allowed the telegraph to work over long distances. Henry is half inventor, half scientist. Hopefully he’ll do better in the voting.
20. Alfred Nobel – Big Rocks – When I posted in my judging criteria in the beginning of the thread that a person who invented something accidentally that still had a big influence could still score well, Nobel was who I had in mind. His assistant invented nitroglycerin. Then Nobel left it overnight where he shouldn’t and the resulting explosion killed five people including his younger brother. There’s no question that dynamite is an incredibly useful device with huge military applications as well as in mining and construction. But in doing these rankings I realized that all of the inventions here are hugely influential, and dynamite ranks rather low among them. Combined with the other factors, Nobel comes in last.
Others who could have been drafted include Alan Turing, Eli Whitney, Yoshiro Nakamatsu, and Louis Daguerre.
Orange Crush
Footballguy
Inventor Rankings (short form):
1 - Johannes Gutenberg - thatguy
2 - Cai Lun - Yankee23fan
3 - Nikola Tesla - Herbert the Hippo
4 - Thomas Edison - Acer FC
5 - Alexander Graham Bell - Thorn
6 - Charles Babbage - Doug B
7 - James Watt - Mad Sweeney
8 - Karl Benz - Arsenal of Doom
9 - Wilbur Wright - Andy Dufresne
10 - Isambard Kingdom Brunel - Larry Boy
11 - Henry Bessemer - higgins
12 - Samuel F.B. Morse - BobbyLayne
13 - John Ericsson - DC Thunder
14 - Guglielmo Marconi - Mario Kart
15 - George Eastman - Mister CIA
16 - Louis Braille - John Madden's Lunchbox
17 - Tim Berners-Lee - Usual21
18 - George Washington Carver - FUBAR
19 - Joseph Henry - Abrantes
20 - Alfred Nobel - Big Rocks
1 - Johannes Gutenberg - thatguy
2 - Cai Lun - Yankee23fan
3 - Nikola Tesla - Herbert the Hippo
4 - Thomas Edison - Acer FC
5 - Alexander Graham Bell - Thorn
6 - Charles Babbage - Doug B
7 - James Watt - Mad Sweeney
8 - Karl Benz - Arsenal of Doom
9 - Wilbur Wright - Andy Dufresne
10 - Isambard Kingdom Brunel - Larry Boy
11 - Henry Bessemer - higgins
12 - Samuel F.B. Morse - BobbyLayne
13 - John Ericsson - DC Thunder
14 - Guglielmo Marconi - Mario Kart
15 - George Eastman - Mister CIA
16 - Louis Braille - John Madden's Lunchbox
17 - Tim Berners-Lee - Usual21
18 - George Washington Carver - FUBAR
19 - Joseph Henry - Abrantes
20 - Alfred Nobel - Big Rocks
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I picked Wilbur over Orville due to this snipped from Wiki:
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I agree with your top 4, but feel like after that you can really throw a dart.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I'd love to argue, but I think this is about right. He's more of an American icon than great worldwide inventor. Curious, where would you have put Eli Whitney who I almost drafted instead?
Orange Crush
Footballguy
Higher than Carver that's for sure. Probably somewhere in the 13 - 15 range.
The Inventor rankings aren't too bad. Ericsson got about the ranking that I expected. And ship propellors are very much an underrated invention. Imagine a paddle-wheel powered aircraft carrier, let alone a submarine.
An interesting point on DaVinci as an "inventor", none of his designs were ever actually made in his time. So is a drawing in a journal or manuscript really an "invention"? It couldn't get a patent because you have to have a working model, at least.
The Discovery Channel is doing a show called "Doing DaVinci" where modern day engineers and machinists and fabricators try to build life size versions of some of his "inventions" to see if they would work. They built that round wooden "tank" with the cannons that point out on all sides the other night, but they used modern metal tubes and welding and composite wood to build the thing. It could never have been done in DaVinci's time, but it did actually work, at least in a Hollywood parking lot.
An interesting point on DaVinci as an "inventor", none of his designs were ever actually made in his time. So is a drawing in a journal or manuscript really an "invention"? It couldn't get a patent because you have to have a working model, at least.
The Discovery Channel is doing a show called "Doing DaVinci" where modern day engineers and machinists and fabricators try to build life size versions of some of his "inventions" to see if they would work. They built that round wooden "tank" with the cannons that point out on all sides the other night, but they used modern metal tubes and welding and composite wood to build the thing. It could never have been done in DaVinci's time, but it did actually work, at least in a Hollywood parking lot.
Orange Crush
Footballguy
None of the inventions in his notebook were built in his day. But he was an accomplished inventor and engineer, and received a good amount of money from the monarchs of the time for his war machines.
Not debating either of those points. My only question is were those drawings "inventions"? I can draw a picture of a rocket ship to Alpha Centuri, that doesn't make it an "invention".And I drafted DaVinci, so I understand his genius in many fields.
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
No problem here. It's a good list and Braille is about fair.Higher if you are blind, for the rest of us, not so much.By the way where would you have ranked Jethro Tull or Otto Rohwedder? (Invented Sliced Bread - Greatest thing invented since Sliced Bread)
FUBAR
Footballguy
Almost as good as the 
Grandpa! (kids in movies)
Doug B
Footballguy
Charles Babbage (11th selected, 6th ranked) and Samuel Morse (17th taken, 12th ranked) were the best values in the Inventor category. I think this has been the most "straightforward" ranking so far ... no huge variations from the draft order.
Drafters did well to nab Cai Lun and Tesla early. I tell you what, before the GAD and this thing, I thought Tesla was a secondary figure in American invention -- a significant figure to be sure, but secondary. I think one of the things that influenced my opinions on Tesla was an article I read a while back harshly panning his ideas about "broadcast power" -- using microwaves to "broadcast" electrical power instead of power lines. Plus I never knew he had credible radio patents before Marconi (I knew Marconi wasn't first, but I thought someone else besides Tesla was first).
Drafters did well to nab Cai Lun and Tesla early. I tell you what, before the GAD and this thing, I thought Tesla was a secondary figure in American invention -- a significant figure to be sure, but secondary. I think one of the things that influenced my opinions on Tesla was an article I read a while back harshly panning his ideas about "broadcast power" -- using microwaves to "broadcast" electrical power instead of power lines. Plus I never knew he had credible radio patents before Marconi (I knew Marconi wasn't first, but I thought someone else besides Tesla was first).
The guy I took in the GAD, Robert Goddard, the inventor of liquid fueled rockets and space flight, also had major radio patents. In fact, he was a radio pioneer even before he got into rocketry.
Doug B
Footballguy
I was able to find the Tesla article I was referring to on the Internet. It really makes him look pretty bad, but apparently Tesla's rep has rebounded in the nineteen years since the article was written:
Ouch.
Orange Crush
Footballguy
Tesla was an eccentric who wasn't well liked. Also, some of his ideas were really out there. So that made it easy for his detractors to deride him and do lasting damage to his reputation. That shouldn't take anything away from the power of his inventions that DID work.
Doug B
Footballguy
No kidding. I never even heard of Tesla until I got to college. And I was always one who voraciously read books about inventors and scientists. I had a great little book when I was a kid that went into great depth for being aimed at (older) elementary school kids. Guys like Humphrey Davy, Faraday, Volta, and many others were spotlighted, and cool home experiments that replicated their simpler work were outlined.But nary a mention of Tesla.Orange Crush said:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I've posted in the thread several times I will present Humanitarian/Martyr/Saint Friday a.m.; sent PM just in case you miss this one as well.We were discussing missing judges before you came in this a.m. and Acer FC volunteered to do Celebrity (scroll up).timschochet said:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
14 point Inventor7 point WCOrange Crush said:
Doug B
Footballguy
I volunteered to do the Celebrity rankings last week
At the time, tim was able to locate Zaxxon, so we assumed all was well.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Ah-hah!Thanks, my bad.I volunteered to do the Celebrity rankings last weekAt the time, tim was able to locate Zaxxon, so we assumed all was well.
timschochet
Footballguy
I have heard from everyone except:
Zaxxon (Celebrities)
Fennis (Rebels)
Shining Path (Intellectuals)
I'm pretty sure we'll at least hear from Fennis by today. In any case, all three have until tommorow morning, and then we'll figure out who's going to take their places. As it stands, Doug B would be the new celebrities judge, while Yankee will handle intellectuals (the villainous ones.)
Zaxxon (Celebrities)
Fennis (Rebels)
Shining Path (Intellectuals)
I'm pretty sure we'll at least hear from Fennis by today. In any case, all three have until tommorow morning, and then we'll figure out who's going to take their places. As it stands, Doug B would be the new celebrities judge, while Yankee will handle intellectuals (the villainous ones.)
rick6668
Footballguy
Think you did a great job. From the criteria you listed, you didn't take into account anything else they did in their lives.This is fine and looks consistant. Just wanted to add some more about Eastman. He was not only an inventor, but a businessman and philanthropist as well.Orange Crush said:
AcerFC
Footballguy
Ill do rebels I guess if no one else steps up.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
16th in the G.A.D., but that was lumped in with Scientist.Orange Crush said:Higher than Carver that's for sure. Probably somewhere in the 13 - 15 range.FUBAR said:Orange Crush said:I'd love to argue, but I think this is about right. He's more of an American icon than great worldwide inventor. Curious, where would you have put Eli Whitney who I almost drafted instead?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Pretty sure Fennis will show up, rankings in hand, very shortly.
AcerFC
Footballguy
Cool, cause I would not have really had an effin clue about it
The Real Hipster Doofus
Footballguy
On to the villian rankings.....
This was a difficult category to rank because of all the different criteria to consider when ranking (ie body count vs. sick and twisted). In the interest of getting these rankings posted I did not include commentary but I will be around to respond to any comments. My 1 and 2 are really 1a and 1b with a large drop off after that. Unlike GTBilly who prefers mainly sick and twisted my criteria is basically the follows:
(this is not an order of how I weighed the criteria just what it was)
1. Body Count
2. How sick and twisted it was (Impalement is MUCH worse than a bullet in the head)
3. How did it impact society?
1. Josef Stalin
2. Adolf Hitler
3. Vlad the Impaler
4. Attila the Hun
5. Pol Pot
6. Heinrich Himmler
7. Torquemada
8. Josef Mengele
9. Lavrenti Beria
10. Ivan the Terrible
11. Osama Bin Ladin
12. Adolf Eichman
13. Slobodan Milosevic
14. Pablo Escobar
15. Idi Amin
16. Ho Chi Minh
17. Saddam Hussein
18. Papa Doc Duvalier
19. Caligula
20. Nero
This was a difficult category to rank because of all the different criteria to consider when ranking (ie body count vs. sick and twisted). In the interest of getting these rankings posted I did not include commentary but I will be around to respond to any comments. My 1 and 2 are really 1a and 1b with a large drop off after that. Unlike GTBilly who prefers mainly sick and twisted my criteria is basically the follows:
(this is not an order of how I weighed the criteria just what it was)
1. Body Count
2. How sick and twisted it was (Impalement is MUCH worse than a bullet in the head)
3. How did it impact society?
1. Josef Stalin
2. Adolf Hitler
3. Vlad the Impaler
4. Attila the Hun
5. Pol Pot
6. Heinrich Himmler
7. Torquemada
8. Josef Mengele
9. Lavrenti Beria
10. Ivan the Terrible
11. Osama Bin Ladin
12. Adolf Eichman
13. Slobodan Milosevic
14. Pablo Escobar
15. Idi Amin
16. Ho Chi Minh
17. Saddam Hussein
18. Papa Doc Duvalier
19. Caligula
20. Nero
timschochet
Footballguy
Please do not forget; if you are a drafter AND a judge, you are not allowed to rank your own pick. TIA.
NCCommish
Footballguy
First off Harrison is probably the second best musician behind Paul. And Ringo is so underrated it isn't even funny. The weak link musically would probably be Lennon unless we look at vocals and writing then he moves up the list. I love Zep but I would place them behind the Beatles in pretty much every category you can name.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Because of him, millions had to flee their home land and become refugees in neighboring lands in an attempt to stay alive. It was a case of "0% chance living here, 20% chance living there" and millions of lives, families, and culture have been displaced due to the rule he had over his people. Body count? Millions, they may not have perished by his hand or rule, but millions along with the world have felt his affects, sadly.Sad human history
FUBAR
Footballguy
IMO, you can go any order in the top 7, although you'll get less gruff with Hitler/Stalin on top. I'll gladly keep Attila at #4
NCCommish
Footballguy
As a judge I knew this would be the case going in. I took a lot of time to get my rankings. I know some peopel think I am contrary to be contrary but I'm not. I have spent most of my life exploring world religions as an admittedly amateur thinker on the subject. I neither expect or require people to accept my ranking cause I say so. I expect a fight. That's part of the fun after all.DCThunder said:The ironic thing about a lot of this judging is we ask guys who are "experts" in their field, like Giggy, to be a judge. He does a lot of work to do write-ups based on the current scholarship in his field, and then people who have had no more than a survey course like "Western Thought 101" where Socrates was emphasized because he died in a romantic fashion, come in and ##### and moan because there guy wasn't ranked higher.Same thing with Uncle H's musician rankings. From many other threads, I consider Uncle H one of the most knowledgeable guys about ALL forms of music on this board. From metal to rock to jazz to swing to pop to classical, he pretty much knows it all. Then he puts up rankings that don't have the "usual suspects" and long time faves of the FFA on top and everyone's panties get in a twist.I expressed my feelings yesterday about the whole idea of judging and the arguments of last night just further illustrate the point. Any rankings that are contrary to the conventional wisdom of the masses of the FFA are derided. At this point, there's nothing to do but enjoy the popcorn and the ride.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
solid list (tho bin Laden would have made top 10 on mine), but Nero @ #20 is disappointing. the emperor's use of tar-coated Christians as tiki torches for events rivals Mengel's experiments & Vlad's St. Bartholomew Day punishments for most venal act of all time.
timschochet
Footballguy
1. Josef Stalin
2. Adolf Hitler
3. Vlad the Impaler
4. Attila the Hun
5. Pol Pot
6. Heinrich Himmler
7. Torquemada
8. Josef Mengele
9. Lavrenti Beria
10. Ivan the Terrible
11. Osama Bin Ladin
12. Adolf Eichman
13. Slobodan Milosevic
14. Pablo Escobar
15. Idi Amin
16. Ho Chi Minh
17. Saddam Hussein
18. Papa Doc Duvalier
19. Caligula
20. Nero
Well, I'm glad you got the first two right. I have always ranked Stalin as slightly worse than Hitler not because of body count, but because, as Hannah Ahrendt has noted, Hitlers main crimes were against outsiders to the state, whereas Stalins main crimes were against members of the state itself. If you were a good aryan citizen of Nazi Germany, you really had nothing to fear from the government so long as you did not challenge it; in fact, prior to 1943 your life was a pretty good one, far better than it had been under Weimar. If you were a good Communist citizen of the Soviet Union in the 1930's, your life was constant fear. Nothing would protect you; no past or current loyalties, no matter how high up you or your friends were, nothing.
So far as the rest of the list goes, I'm still not sure that men like Eichmann, Beria, Himmler, and Mengele deserve greater consideration than heads of state. This is a fascinating and deep question, and I can see many sides to it. I certainly don't want to dismiss these four with the idea that they were carrying out orders- that was the typical defense at Nuremberg. But on the other hand, these guys were not the instigators. It seems to me that despite the difference in body count, a guy like Idi Amin who instigates murder should be given greater consideration than a guy like Himmler who carries it out.
2. Adolf Hitler
3. Vlad the Impaler
4. Attila the Hun
5. Pol Pot
6. Heinrich Himmler
7. Torquemada
8. Josef Mengele
9. Lavrenti Beria
10. Ivan the Terrible
11. Osama Bin Ladin
12. Adolf Eichman
13. Slobodan Milosevic
14. Pablo Escobar
15. Idi Amin
16. Ho Chi Minh
17. Saddam Hussein
18. Papa Doc Duvalier
19. Caligula
20. Nero
Well, I'm glad you got the first two right. I have always ranked Stalin as slightly worse than Hitler not because of body count, but because, as Hannah Ahrendt has noted, Hitlers main crimes were against outsiders to the state, whereas Stalins main crimes were against members of the state itself. If you were a good aryan citizen of Nazi Germany, you really had nothing to fear from the government so long as you did not challenge it; in fact, prior to 1943 your life was a pretty good one, far better than it had been under Weimar. If you were a good Communist citizen of the Soviet Union in the 1930's, your life was constant fear. Nothing would protect you; no past or current loyalties, no matter how high up you or your friends were, nothing.
So far as the rest of the list goes, I'm still not sure that men like Eichmann, Beria, Himmler, and Mengele deserve greater consideration than heads of state. This is a fascinating and deep question, and I can see many sides to it. I certainly don't want to dismiss these four with the idea that they were carrying out orders- that was the typical defense at Nuremberg. But on the other hand, these guys were not the instigators. It seems to me that despite the difference in body count, a guy like Idi Amin who instigates murder should be given greater consideration than a guy like Himmler who carries it out.
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