World's Greatest Draft (1 Viewer)

[Abrantes]

Although Tim instructed the judges not to rank their own picks, I didn't realize it was this big of a serious business thing. I actually thought it was pretty funny when I read it, and I'm sure most of the draft already knew Yankee would place Smith at #1 if it was up to him. Really don't see the reason for this much animosity. At the end of the day, Adam Smith's ranking was/is up to Tim anyway, and he likely knew where Yankee would've placed him, whether he put it down in writing or not.

Do any of you seriously believe there were bad intentions behind what Tim or Yankee did? I can't see it.

 

[HERBERT THE HIPPO]

Final Overall Rankings (until some Judge decides to change it)Rk Team JudgeRkSum Points Value1 DougB 151 311 772 Arsenal of Doom 176 286 363 BobbyLayne 185 277 484 thatguy 188 274 445 Mad Sweeney 201 261 226 FUBAR 202 260 237 Thorn 207 255 248 Yankee23fan 218 244 229 Acer FC 221 241 1610 Abrantes 224 238 811 John Madden's Lunchbox 224 238 -312 Andy Dufresne 229 233 113 Mario Kart 235 227 -1314 DC Thunder 248 214 -1515 higgins 260 202 -2416 Big Rocks 265 197 -2617 Mister CIA 276 186 -4518 Larry Boy 281 181 -4119 Usual21 304 158 -7720 Herbert the Hippo 305 157 -73

So I finished in last by 1 point..........

 

[BobbyLayne]

Yankee23Fan - the stunt you pulled today is the epitome of cheesy, selfish behavior. For what? To get a couple points in a meaningless internet contest? So you could finish barely 8th or solidly 8th?

You're a piece of work, man.

Um, ok. There was no evil intent in it.Look, why don't we make this simple. Rank Smith 20th. I really don't care - I know tim gets to place him wherever he wants. Had I not put Smith on that list, the rest of the list would have been exactly the same it is now and tim could insert him anywhere. If it really is felt that I did something bad here on purpose - which I didn't - then drop him off the list and give him a 20.

Of course, it won't matter at this point if I tell you that I had no idea what the rankings of the teams were when I did this, nor do I really care where I rank overall because I except to be in the teens. Not only that, but I took the 20 names and had no idea who had who except for my Smith.

But again, this is really such a waste of an argument. Drop him to 20. Freud moves up one as a result. Of course, it doesn't matter, I guess, that the guy I took over for would have made Smith #1 as well.

I was perfectly willing to let it go. You're the one who came in here and started Hipling. 5 out of 6 posts? Feeling just a tad guilty about the b.s. move you pulled? Sleep well tonight, my friend.

Your Intellectuals rankings stand as is; I'm done discussing this subject with you.

Let the playoffs begin.

I was responding to post as I got caught up in the thread since I was 3 pages behind. Seriously, WTF?

Locke 5th, that's WTF.

 

[thatguy]

Although Tim instructed the judges not to rank their own picks, I didn't realize it was this big of a serious business thing. I actually thought it was pretty funny when I read it, and I'm sure most of the draft already knew Yankee would place Smith at #1 if it was up to him. Really don't see the reason for this much animosity. At the end of the day, Adam Smith's ranking was/is up to Tim anyway, and he likely knew where Yankee would've placed him, whether he put it down in writing or not.



Do any of you seriously believe there were bad intentions behind what Tim or Yankee did? I can't see it.

Nope. I think both had good intentions. ELE.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

19. Garry Kasparaov

18. Umberto Eco

17. Frederick Douglass

16. Hammurabi

15. Justinian

14. Leon Trotsky

13. Thomas Jefferson

12. Pythagorus of Samos

11. William Blackstone

10. Sigmund Freud

9. Carl von Clausewitz

8. Thomas Malthus

7. Francis Bacon

6. Carl Jung

5. Thucydides

4. John Locke

3. Thomas Hobbes -

2. Niccolo Machiavelli

1. John Maynard Keynes

Here's the list without any mention of Smith. Go ahead and rank him like I didn't mention him. People will still be upset with Freud. I got that. I expected more attacks on Jefferson and Trotsky, and there haven't been any. But, now, this is my ranking - where does my guy go.

 

[AcerFC]

I'll take 9th when 4 or 5 of my picks were ranked 18th. I'm just going off my head and don't know if it was really 4 or 5 but feels like that

 

[Abrantes]

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Yankee23Fan - the stunt you pulled today is the epitome of cheesy, selfish behavior. For what? To get a couple points in a meaningless internet contest? So you could finish barely 8th or solidly 8th?

You're a piece of work, man.

Um, ok. There was no evil intent in it.Look, why don't we make this simple. Rank Smith 20th. I really don't care - I know tim gets to place him wherever he wants. Had I not put Smith on that list, the rest of the list would have been exactly the same it is now and tim could insert him anywhere. If it really is felt that I did something bad here on purpose - which I didn't - then drop him off the list and give him a 20.

Of course, it won't matter at this point if I tell you that I had no idea what the rankings of the teams were when I did this, nor do I really care where I rank overall because I except to be in the teens. Not only that, but I took the 20 names and had no idea who had who except for my Smith.

But again, this is really such a waste of an argument. Drop him to 20. Freud moves up one as a result. Of course, it doesn't matter, I guess, that the guy I took over for would have made Smith #1 as well.

I was perfectly willing to let it go. You're the one who came in here and started Hipling. 5 out of 6 posts? Feeling just a tad guilty about the b.s. move you pulled? Sleep well tonight, my friend.

Your Intellectuals rankings stand as is; I'm done discussing this subject with you.

Let the playoffs begin.

I was responding to post as I got caught up in the thread since I was 3 pages behind. Seriously, WTF?

Locke 5th, that's WTF.

You want him 3rd, I have him 5th - all this is over two spots, especially when I agree that everyone in the top 5 could be a number 1? Without my guy in the rankings, Locke is 4. So that's one spot. Let tim rank him from there.Again - I'm getting the vitriol here. I'm really not.

 

[AcerFC]

Yankee can you make Jefferson higher. I think he was great

 

[krista4]

Although Tim instructed the judges not to rank their own picks, I didn't realize it was this big of a serious business thing. I actually thought it was pretty funny when I read it, and I'm sure most of the draft already knew Yankee would place Smith at #1 if it was up to him. Really don't see the reason for this much animosity. At the end of the day, Adam Smith's ranking was/is up to Tim anyway, and he likely knew where Yankee would've placed him, whether he put it down in writing or not.

Do any of you seriously believe there were bad intentions behind what Tim or Yankee did? I can't see it.

I didn't like tim's suggestion of having Yankee move Freud, but I don't think anyone was acting with malice. I assumed Yankee was just funnin'/pushing his guys like everyone else.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Yankee can you make Jefferson higher. I think he was great

 

[BobbyLayne]

Final Overall Rankings (until some Judge decides to change it)Rk Team JudgeRkSum Points Value1 DougB 151 311 772 Arsenal of Doom 176 286 363 BobbyLayne 185 277 484 thatguy 188 274 445 Mad Sweeney 201 261 226 FUBAR 202 260 237 Thorn 207 255 248 Yankee23fan 218 244 229 Acer FC 221 241 1610 Abrantes 224 238 811 John Madden's Lunchbox 224 238 -312 Andy Dufresne 229 233 113 Mario Kart 235 227 -1314 DC Thunder 248 214 -1515 higgins 260 202 -2416 Big Rocks 265 197 -2617 Mister CIA 276 186 -4518 Larry Boy 281 181 -4119 Usual21 304 158 -7720 Herbert the Hippo 305 157 -73

So I finished in last by 1 point..........

Maybe you should have stuck with Flysack as your intellectual and Secretariat as your athlete?

 

[krista4]

Final Overall Rankings (until some Judge decides to change it)Rk Team JudgeRkSum Points Value1 DougB 151 311 772 Arsenal of Doom 176 286 363 BobbyLayne 185 277 484 thatguy 188 274 445 Mad Sweeney 201 261 226 FUBAR 202 260 237 Thorn 207 255 248 Yankee23fan 218 244 229 Acer FC 221 241 1610 Abrantes 224 238 811 John Madden's Lunchbox 224 238 -312 Andy Dufresne 229 233 113 Mario Kart 235 227 -1314 DC Thunder 248 214 -1515 higgins 260 202 -2416 Big Rocks 265 197 -2617 Mister CIA 276 186 -4518 Larry Boy 281 181 -4119 Usual21 304 158 -7720 Herbert the Hippo 305 157 -73

So I finished in last by 1 point..........

Maybe you should have stuck with Flysack as your intellectual and Secretariat as your athlete?

We should find out where they would have ranked.I think HTH will do well in the popular vote. People like him.

 

[wikkidpissah]

19. Garry Kasparaov

18. Umberto Eco

17. Frederick Douglass

16. Hammurabi

15. Justinian

14. Leon Trotsky

13. Thomas Jefferson

12. Pythagorus of Samos

11. William Blackstone

10. Sigmund Freud

9. Carl von Clausewitz

8. Thomas Malthus

7. Francis Bacon

6. Carl Jung

5. Thucydides

4. John Locke

3. Thomas Hobbes -

2. Niccolo Machiavelli

1. John Maynard Keynes

Here's the list without any mention of Smith. Go ahead and rank him like I didn't mention him. People will still be upset with Freud. I got that. I expected more attacks on Jefferson and Trotsky, and there haven't been any. But, now, this is my ranking - where does my guy go.

i dont know if this is a registration of surprise that left-leaners didnt jump on these rankings or not. as the senior pinko on the board, i have to say that your ranking of Jefferson (who would have been Top 5 in my rating of this category - which i thought would include more of the polymaths) was no surprise & Trotsky would rate higher as a rebel than an intellect, so his position is not the object of permanent revulsion on my part.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Great job on your rankings and writeups BL. You clearly did your homework and put a helluva lot of thought into each ranking. And I'm not just saying that because you ranked Albert #1, but it does help. Seriously, awesome awesome job.

Thanks (and ditto to Abrantes or anybody else I missed - just getting caught up with the thread).Sorry it was spread out so far apart; my intent was to do it over an hour or two, but bit of a crazy workday.

Enjoyed this very much; learned a lot. Some I thought I was familiar with but learned a lot more about. A couple like St Francis I knew nothing about.

I've always read a lot of books on the New Deal and FDR, but I think next I'm going to look for one or two on Eleanor. I think I bumped her up from around 14th-15th to 10th-11th, and timschochet still thought she was low. I can't see her above the three abolitionist/civil right/apartheid group, but he's made me curious to learn more.

Anybody else adding to their reading list based on things you learned in this draft or the last?

 

[wikkidpissah]

have you read "Heisenberg's War", BL? if that period is a source of interest, i highly recommend it.

as for reading, i've already blown the dust off my Thucydides (does that sound dirty?), so must be excused if i call anyone a Thracian Dog in the next coupla wks.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Maybe you should have stuck with Flysack as your intellectual and Secretariat as your athlete?

We should find out where they would have ranked.I think HTH will do well in the popular vote. People like him.

Sheesh, I don't want to encourage more whining but this is NOT the 20th worst team in the draft:

Herbert The HippoLeader Jawalhawal NehruMilitary Bernard Law MontgomeryScientist ArchimedesInventor Nikola TeslaDiscoverer/Explorer William DampierHumanitarian/Saint/Martyr Eleanor RooseveltNovelist/short story Giovanni BoccaccioPlaywright/Poet DanteVillain Idi AminAthlete Tiger WoodsComposer Franz SchubertMuscian/ Performer Art TatumPainter Diego VelazquezArtist/ Non Painter Andrea Palladio Philosopher SocratesReligious Figure MosesCelebrity Anna Nicole SmithIntellectual Umberto EcoRebel NzinghaWildcard JudasWildcard Walt DisneyWildcard Lucky Luciano

OK, there are weak picks in there, just like any team - but what killed him was he got dumped on with what should have been good-to-great picks: Amin 15th, Archimedes 19th, Socrates 19th, Velazquez 17th, Woods 20th. Even Palladio at 8th; he should be above all the film directors.I know its a deep, deep draft, but I think if anyone is going to surprise in the first round or two it could be him.

 

[Ozymandias]

I've been away all day, so I haven't had time to reads through the posts, so my comments might have been made by others. But Weisenthal is not worthy of such a high ranking, any more than a good prosecutor would be. He helped bring people to justice, but did not do great humanitarian work.

Second, Albert Schweitzer was much questioned towards the end of his life. His hospital was apparently run down, and basic hygiene was not being followed. He also had a little of the "white man's burden", colonial mentality. Not that he wasn't a great man, but that I question him being #1.

 

[BobbyLayne]

have you read "Heisenberg's War", BL? if that period is a source of interest, i highly recommend it.

as for reading, i've already blown the dust off my Thucydides (does that sound dirty?), so must be excused if i call anyone a Thracian Dog in the next coupla wks.

Nope, but I just popped it into my Amazon cart. Looks like a good one.Read a lot of WWII stuff growing up, but last decade my non-fiction readling lists have been mostly ACW plus French or Russian histories. But during the G.A.D. I read The Greatest Battle: Stalin, Hitler, and the Desperate Struggle for Moscow That Changed the Course of World War II by Andrew Nagorski. During this draft have been re-reading RF3R.

I guess the '39-'45 trend will continue, thanks.

 

[AcerFC]

Tim

I think it is obvious that Yankees main goal in his rankings were to mock this daft.

My reccomendation is to drop him as a judge and replace him with wikkidpissah.

(this has nothing to do with Jefferson being top 5 in pissahs rankings)

This is a joke. Don't want to rattle any feathers.

 

[shining path]

In Yankee's defense, he had Smith at 2 and Keynes at 1. I suggested that he move Smith up to 1 and drop Keynes some. I'm under the impression that Smith was Yankee's own pick, but I didn't realize it at the time.

For those who really want Freud to be at the top, both Yankee and I used alot more than "influential" in our rankings.

 

[krista4]

Maybe you should have stuck with Flysack as your intellectual and Secretariat as your athlete?

We should find out where they would have ranked.I think HTH will do well in the popular vote. People like him.

Sheesh, I don't want to encourage more whining but this is NOT the 20th worst team in the draft:

Herbert The HippoLeader Jawalhawal NehruMilitary Bernard Law MontgomeryScientist ArchimedesInventor Nikola TeslaDiscoverer/Explorer William DampierHumanitarian/Saint/Martyr Eleanor RooseveltNovelist/short story Giovanni BoccaccioPlaywright/Poet DanteVillain Idi AminAthlete Tiger WoodsComposer Franz SchubertMuscian/ Performer Art TatumPainter Diego VelazquezArtist/ Non Painter Andrea Palladio Philosopher SocratesReligious Figure MosesCelebrity Anna Nicole SmithIntellectual Umberto EcoRebel NzinghaWildcard JudasWildcard Walt DisneyWildcard Lucky Luciano

OK, there are weak picks in there, just like any team - but what killed him was he got dumped on with what should have been good-to-great picks: Amin 15th, Archimedes 19th, Socrates 19th, Velazquez 17th, Woods 20th. Even Palladio at 8th; he should be above all the film directors.I know its a deep, deep draft, but I think if anyone is going to surprise in the first round or two it could be him.

Wow, I hadn't looked at his team, but you're right. Some of those are unreasonably low.

 

[shining path]

Man, some of the personal attacks on Yankee are way out of line. He volunteered to do an extensive writeup, and now he's being accused of only doing it to pimp his own guy?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Great job on your rankings and writeups BL. You clearly did your homework and put a helluva lot of thought into each ranking. And I'm not just saying that because you ranked Albert #1, but it does help. Seriously, awesome awesome job.

Thanks (and ditto to Abrantes or anybody else I missed - just getting caught up with the thread).Sorry it was spread out so far apart; my intent was to do it over an hour or two, but bit of a crazy workday.

Enjoyed this very much; learned a lot. Some I thought I was familiar with but learned a lot more about. A couple like St Francis I knew nothing about.

I've always read a lot of books on the New Deal and FDR, but I think next I'm going to look for one or two on Eleanor. I think I bumped her up from around 14th-15th to 10th-11th, and timschochet still thought she was low. I can't see her above the three abolitionist/civil right/apartheid group, but he's made me curious to learn more.

Anybody else adding to their reading list based on things you learned in this draft or the last?

If it's ok for me to answer you, I had my wife grab me The Screwtape Letters.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I've been away all day, so I haven't had time to reads through the posts, so my comments might have been made by others. But Weisenthal is not worthy of such a high ranking, any more than a good prosecutor would be. He helped bring people to justice, but did not do great humanitarian work.

Thanks for the input, Ozy. I guess in retrospect that is the one I botched the worst. I think I had him around 14th-17th on a lot of my lists (must have been at least 10 iterations). I'm re-reading William Shire's Rise and Fall, and last night we got into a mini-discussion about how much of the Holocaust is taught or emphasized in school. Guess I overthought it.

Second, Albert Schweitzer was much questioned towards the end of his life. His hospital was apparently run down, and basic hygiene was not being followed. He also had a little of the "white man's burden", colonial mentality. Not that he wasn't a great man, but that I question him being #1.

I respect your opinion, but I took this into consideration, and it still didn't move him off the top spot. Who goes there? Seriously. Maybe the Lady of the Lamp - but it's a reach IMO.I don't want to turn this into a diatribe, but I did a ton of research for this, and I uncovered serious warts, scandals, myths and legend on nearly everyone in the top ten. I had to weigh each of them and determine if the new-to-me info changed their ranking at all.

I did my best, but I'm sure it's not perfect.

 

[larry_boy_44]

a few things:

1. in part because of the first draft, and in part because its my first real chance since and I'm bored with Hitchhiker's Guide, it gets worse as it goes along (or it seems that way)... I'm going book-shopping tomorrow... any suggestions?

2. If you all have any input on the judges rankings, feel free to shoot me a PM (I'm gonna clear out my PM box some right now)...

3. I plan to have the judges rankings and write ups up by Monday morning...

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I've been away all day, so I haven't had time to reads through the posts, so my comments might have been made by others. But Weisenthal is not worthy of such a high ranking, any more than a good prosecutor would be. He helped bring people to justice, but did not do great humanitarian work.

Thanks for the input, Ozy. I guess in retrospect that is the one I botched the worst. I think I had him around 14th-17th on a lot of my lists (must have been at least 10 iterations). I'm re-reading William Shire's Rise and Fall, and last night we got into a mini-discussion about how much of the Holocaust is taught or emphasized in school. Guess I overthought it.

Second, Albert Schweitzer was much questioned towards the end of his life. His hospital was apparently run down, and basic hygiene was not being followed. He also had a little of the "white man's burden", colonial mentality. Not that he wasn't a great man, but that I question him being #1.

I respect your opinion, but I took this into consideration, and it still didn't move him off the top spot. Who goes there? Seriously. Maybe the Lady of the Lamp - but it's a reach IMO.I don't want to turn this into a diatribe, but I did a ton of research for this, and I uncovered serious warts, scandals, myths and legend on nearly everyone in the top ten. I had to weigh each of them and determine if the new-to-me info changed their ranking at all.

I did my best, but I'm sure it's not perfect.

I thought your rankings were pretty good. It's a hard category given that there are three distinct types of people in it that have to be meshed together.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Great job on your rankings and writeups BL. You clearly did your homework and put a helluva lot of thought into each ranking. And I'm not just saying that because you ranked Albert #1, but it does help. Seriously, awesome awesome job.

Thanks (and ditto to Abrantes or anybody else I missed - just getting caught up with the thread).Sorry it was spread out so far apart; my intent was to do it over an hour or two, but bit of a crazy workday.

Enjoyed this very much; learned a lot. Some I thought I was familiar with but learned a lot more about. A couple like St Francis I knew nothing about.

I've always read a lot of books on the New Deal and FDR, but I think next I'm going to look for one or two on Eleanor. I think I bumped her up from around 14th-15th to 10th-11th, and timschochet still thought she was low. I can't see her above the three abolitionist/civil right/apartheid group, but he's made me curious to learn more.

Anybody else adding to their reading list based on things you learned in this draft or the last?

If it's ok for me to answer you, I had my wife grab me The Screwtape Letters.

I read Screwtape in high school...It drags at the end, but otherwise is very, very good...

 

[shining path]

a few things:

1. in part because of the first draft, and in part because its my first real chance since and I'm bored with Hitchhiker's Guide, it gets worse as it goes along (or it seems that way)... I'm going book-shopping tomorrow... any suggestions?

Neal Stephenson's Quicksilver

 

[BobbyLayne]

Great job on your rankings and writeups BL. You clearly did your homework and put a helluva lot of thought into each ranking. And I'm not just saying that because you ranked Albert #1, but it does help. Seriously, awesome awesome job.

Thanks (and ditto to Abrantes or anybody else I missed - just getting caught up with the thread).Sorry it was spread out so far apart; my intent was to do it over an hour or two, but bit of a crazy workday.

Enjoyed this very much; learned a lot. Some I thought I was familiar with but learned a lot more about. A couple like St Francis I knew nothing about.

I've always read a lot of books on the New Deal and FDR, but I think next I'm going to look for one or two on Eleanor. I think I bumped her up from around 14th-15th to 10th-11th, and timschochet still thought she was low. I can't see her above the three abolitionist/civil right/apartheid group, but he's made me curious to learn more.

Anybody else adding to their reading list based on things you learned in this draft or the last?

If it's ok for me to answer you, I had my wife grab me The Screwtape Letters.

I'm a bit of tea kettle; I make a loud whistling noise, blow off some steam, but if you turn the heat down, I stop boiling.

OK, not sure that analogy works perfectly...



I haven't read Screwtape in probably 30-35 years. IIRC it doesn't end well for Wormwood...

 

[Yankee23Fan]

19. Garry Kasparaov

18. Umberto Eco

17. Frederick Douglass

16. Hammurabi

15. Justinian

14. Leon Trotsky

13. Thomas Jefferson

12. Pythagorus of Samos

11. William Blackstone

10. Sigmund Freud

9. Carl von Clausewitz

8. Thomas Malthus

7. Francis Bacon

6. Carl Jung

5. Thucydides

4. John Locke

3. Thomas Hobbes -

2. Niccolo Machiavelli

1. John Maynard Keynes

Here's the list without any mention of Smith. Go ahead and rank him like I didn't mention him. People will still be upset with Freud. I got that. I expected more attacks on Jefferson and Trotsky, and there haven't been any. But, now, this is my ranking - where does my guy go.

i dont know if this is a registration of surprise that left-leaners didnt jump on these rankings or not. as the senior pinko on the board, i have to say that your ranking of Jefferson (who would have been Top 5 in my rating of this category - which i thought would include more of the polymaths) was no surprise & Trotsky would rate higher as a rebel than an intellect, so his position is not the object of permanent revulsion on my part.

I don't see how Jefferson comes close to the top guys - and include Freud there as well. His most important work, the Declaration of Independence wasn't his sole work. As a political philosopher he doesn't compare to Adams let alone anyone on this list. He was a solid statesman if we had the category. But his best work outside of the DoI was his service as President, which doesn't help here, leader of a political party, where Madison did all the heavy lifting, and in founding the University of Virginia, which was not an intellectual act.

 

[wikkidpissah]

have you read "Heisenberg's War", BL? if that period is a source of interest, i highly recommend it.

as for reading, i've already blown the dust off my Thucydides (does that sound dirty?), so must be excused if i call anyone a Thracian Dog in the next coupla wks.

Nope, but I just popped it into my Amazon cart. Looks like a good one.Read a lot of WWII stuff growing up, but last decade my non-fiction readling lists have been mostly ACW plus French or Russian histories. But during the G.A.D. I read The Greatest Battle: Stalin, Hitler, and the Desperate Struggle for Moscow That Changed the Course of World War II by Andrew Nagorski. During this draft have been re-reading RF3R.

I guess the '39-'45 trend will continue, thanks.

i'm gonna hafta revisit Spirer too - it's been 40 yrs since 9th grade.the lack of gravitas at the top of the Intellectual cat (mostly due to their usurption by other classifications) has me thinking that, maybe towards the end of summer, we should have a "Great Minds" draft. i mean, any draft which leaves Heraclitus, Epictetus, Roger Bacon, Leibniz, Payne, Linnaeus (to name a few) out really hasnt done its job

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I haven't read Screwtape in probably 30-35 years. IIRC it doesn't end well for Wormwood...

I was actually surprised that I didn't read it. In high school I was the that read all the books assigned and then got my own as well because they were the books you had to read. I even went out of my way to read Shakespeare.

 

[krista4]

a few things:

1. in part because of the first draft, and in part because its my first real chance since and I'm bored with Hitchhiker's Guide, it gets worse as it goes along (or it seems that way)... I'm going book-shopping tomorrow... any suggestions?

2. If you all have any input on the judges rankings, feel free to shoot me a PM (I'm gonna clear out my PM box some right now)...

3. I plan to have the judges rankings and write ups up by Monday morning...

Larry, I asked my boyfriend for some recommendations based on what I told him you liked, but wanting to expand your horizons a little bit. Here's what he recommends (I realize you might have read some of this already):James M. Cain books

Lolita, by your guy Vladimir Nabokov. Hey, you chose him, so maybe you would be interested in reading one, and this is perfectly accessible.

Ernest Hemingway short stories

Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse Five

Raymond Chandler, The Big Sleep or The Long Goodbye

My suggestions:

The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde

Edgar Allan Poe short stories

Homer

 

[higgins]

have you read "Heisenberg's War", BL? if that period is a source of interest, i highly recommend it.as for reading, i've already blown the dust off my Thucydides (does that sound dirty?), so must be excused if i call anyone a Thracian Dog in the next coupla wks.

 

[Thorn]

Wow. I am heading out for a few adult beverages but I wanted to give my thoughts.

1. I think it's sort of poor form/unfunny to rank your own guy as #1. I wish Yankee had thought about the possible/probable reactions a bit more before doing it. I believe he was just havin fun and didn't have malice though. In the end we have the popular vote, and it is, after all, a mental exercise on a message board.

2. I get Tim's dilemma if he feels that way about Freud. It wasn't really a good or just compromise, but I understand him feeling trapped for a place to put him. Similar to #1, not a great idea but I can't imagine it was done with malice aforethought (just a lack of thorough aforethought).

3. Tim and others thinking Freud needs to be so high really are off base. Frankly, I think Tim owes a consistency explanation to thatguy. Nostradamus gets no love because his ideas turned out wrong, but Frued deserves #2 for being wrong? No way.

Ok, I'm off

 

[BobbyLayne]

I've been away all day, so I haven't had time to reads through the posts, so my comments might have been made by others. But Weisenthal is not worthy of such a high ranking, any more than a good prosecutor would be. He helped bring people to justice, but did not do great humanitarian work.

Thanks for the input, Ozy. I guess in retrospect that is the one I botched the worst. I think I had him around 14th-17th on a lot of my lists (must have been at least 10 iterations). I'm re-reading William Shire's Rise and Fall, and last night we got into a mini-discussion about how much of the Holocaust is taught or emphasized in school. Guess I overthought it.

Second, Albert Schweitzer was much questioned towards the end of his life. His hospital was apparently run down, and basic hygiene was not being followed. He also had a little of the "white man's burden", colonial mentality. Not that he wasn't a great man, but that I question him being #1.

I respect your opinion, but I took this into consideration, and it still didn't move him off the top spot. Who goes there? Seriously. Maybe the Lady of the Lamp - but it's a reach IMO.I don't want to turn this into a diatribe, but I did a ton of research for this, and I uncovered serious warts, scandals, myths and legend on nearly everyone in the top ten. I had to weigh each of them and determine if the new-to-me info changed their ranking at all.

I did my best, but I'm sure it's not perfect.

I thought your rankings were pretty good. It's a hard category given that there are three distinct types of people in it that have to be meshed together.

Thanks.Not including Oskar, I had 8 clergy, a nun or saints, plus Swietzer (physician-theologian) v. 10 who were basically secular humanitarians (including 1 dissident I shoe-horned into martyr - I thought THAT would be the one I got criticized over). I don't think it was straight alternating, but I was conscious of trying to balance religious and non-religious.

The other thing that probably influenced me too much with respect to Wiesenthal is I work for a Jewish-owned firm; out of our 11 officers, I am one of three gentiles. I'm probably over-sensitized about all things Holocaust.

This research exercise got me thinking a lot about how difficult the historians job really can be when you know 'too much' about a person. Does a relatively minor ***** in the armor, a slip late in an accomplished life, or revelations that their good works are in fact less than perfect - does something like that negate all the good works that came before it?

Great people in history are still human beings with flaws just like us.

 

[flysack]

3. Tim and others thinking Freud needs to be so high really are off base. Frankly, I think Tim owes a consistency explanation to thatguy. Nostradamus gets no love because his ideas turned out wrong, but Frued deserves #2 for being wrong? No way.Ok, I'm off

Freud is the foundation of a lot of further ideas and thought.Nostradamus is the foundation for tarot card readers on Hollywood Blvd.

 

[Mario Kart]

Freud is the foundation of a lot of further ideas and thought.

And Princip is the foundation for WWI and the rise of Hitler.

 

[Abrantes]

Freud is the foundation of a lot of further ideas and thought.

And Princip is the foundation for WWI and the rise of Hitler.

And Asimov wrote Foundation.

 

[Uncle Humuna]

Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse Five

I was going to suggest 'Breakfast of Champions'.Great book for promoting outside of the box thinking . . .

 

[wikkidpissah]

Freud is the foundation of a lot of further ideas and thought.

And Princip is the foundation for WWI and the rise of Hitler.

And Asimov wrote Foundation.

And Buffett & Ford endowed foundations

 

[BobbyLayne]

Freud is the foundation of a lot of further ideas and thought.

And Princip is the foundation for WWI and the rise of Hitler.

And Asimov wrote Foundation.

And Buffett & Ford endowed foundations

And Warren Buffett's favorite book is Art of War by Sun TzuThree Degrees of separation to Mario Kart!

I win! I win!

 

[wikkidpissah]

Freud is the foundation of a lot of further ideas and thought.

And Princip is the foundation for WWI and the rise of Hitler.

And Asimov wrote Foundation.

And Buffett & Ford endowed foundations

And Warren Buffett's favorite book is Art of War by Sun TzuThree Degrees of separation to Mario Kart!

I win! I win!

too bad Hoffa wasn't picked - he's buried in a foundation.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse Five

I was going to suggest 'Breakfast of Champions'.Great book for promoting outside of the box thinking . . .

I've started (and have) Slaughterhouse Five...read like half of it... and just... didn't finish it... it wasn't that I didn't like it, I just... like I said, have a hard time sticking to reading...

 

[Mario Kart]

And Princip is the foundation for WWI and the rise of Hitler.

And Asimov wrote Foundation.

And Buffett & Ford endowed foundations

And Warren Buffett's favorite book is Art of War by Sun TzuThree Degrees of separation to Mario Kart!

I win! I win!

too bad Hoffa wasn't picked - he's buried in a foundation.

I WIN, I WIN... I picked Hoffa in the American draft.

 

[thatguy]

Congrats to Doug B. I'm pretty stoked to be in the four spot, although I doubt I'll make it out of the first round due to my mystery stalker ballot box stuffer.

 

[Thorn]

3. Tim and others thinking Freud needs to be so high really are off base. Frankly, I think Tim owes a consistency explanation to thatguy. Nostradamus gets no love because his ideas turned out wrong, but Frued deserves #2 for being wrong? No way.Ok, I'm off

Freud is the foundation of a lot of further ideas and thought.Nostradamus is the foundation for tarot card readers on Hollywood Blvd.

The point is, both of them turned out to be wrong. Why should one enjoy more credit?

 

[timschochet]

3. Tim and others thinking Freud needs to be so high really are off base. Frankly, I think Tim owes a consistency explanation to thatguy. Nostradamus gets no love because his ideas turned out wrong, but Frued deserves #2 for being wrong? No way.

Ok, I'm off

Freud is the foundation of a lot of further ideas and thought.Nostradamus is the foundation for tarot card readers on Hollywood Blvd.

The point is, both of them turned out to be wrong. Why should one enjoy more credit?

When I have to start explaining why Sigmund Freud and Nostradamus are not comparable, that's when I know this draft is just about over.

 

[Mario Kart]

Both volumes are completely edited. Just have to write the intro and fill an index and then upload them. If I am lucky, I can have them completed by dinner time Saturday night. I have been editing the 2nd volume all day today and now I am tired.

As of right now the volumes are ~850 pages in 6x9 page layout and the smallest margins possible. Also with 9-pt font.