Brownsfan07
Footballguy
who do you think is the worst?
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
worst Starting qb today (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Brownsfan07
- Start date
A
awesomeness
Guest
Frye did better in his 2nd year in the league than Croyle did. Hence my vote that Croyle is the worst of that group.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Sure. But you'd be wrong.I'd be thinking Croyle right now.
Last edited by a moderator:
MaddHatter
Footballguy
Grossman shouldn't touch this list, despite how porous he has played, simply because he was the starting QB in a Super Bowl.
One guy that should make this list, IMHO, is Brad Johnson.
One guy that should make this list, IMHO, is Brad Johnson.
oddball
Smart
Grossman shouldn't be on the list because he was a starting QB in a superbowl(and lost), but Johnson should be on the list, despite having been a starting QB in a superbowl, and won!??!!??!!??Brad Johnson career QB rating: 83.1
Rex Grossman career QB rating: 70.9
Last edited by a moderator:
bigmurd
Footballguy
I agree on Grossman, but not Brad Johnson; he is a back-up.And VY on this list is just silly.
TD5150
Footballguy
LBH
Footballguy
:(
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
Mike Pagel 
.....I mean Rex Grossman.
.....I mean Rex Grossman.
Last edited by a moderator:
MaddHatter
Footballguy
2005 to now, right? That is what this poll is about.
TheAristocrat
Footballguy
He started for Carolina in 2001 so Weinke wins, IMO.ETA: But Grossman is in this discussion. He just isn't the absolute worst yet. Room for unimprovement.
Last edited by a moderator:
oddball
Smart
Brad Johnson QB rating:2005: 88.92006: 72.02007: 85.0Rex Grossman QB rating:2005: 59.72006: 73.92007: 66.4Try again...2005 to now, right? That is what this poll is about.
MaddHatter
Footballguy
2007, Brad Johnson completed just 7 of 11 attempts on the whole year. He started zero games. You can throw that one out. 2006, he started 14 games, 9 tds to 15 ints... Vikes went 6-10. In 2005, he started 9 games, threw 12 TDs to 4 ints. Deemed the "stop gap" savior for the Vikes in 2006, only to look worse than someone attempting to use a passer rating from 11 passing attempts.2007, Grossman seen just 8 starts. His passer rating, as quoted, justifies his horrid performance last year. In 2006, he has a passer rating of 73.9 in a year of lopsided confusion. One week he had a 148 rating, one week he had a 1.3. The Bears still go on to the Super Bowl, thanks to the defense and Rex Grossman managing the ball game. His 2005 passer rating, again, like Johnson's from 2007, doesn't matter due to injuries and starting just 1 game.So, Johnson had a average half of a season in 2005 and a terrible 2006. Grossman had an up and down 2006 where he led the Bears to a 13-3 record and Super Bowl, only to follow it up with a terrible 2007.Maybe "someone" else should try again.Brad Johnson QB rating:2005: 88.92006: 72.02007: 85.0Rex Grossman QB rating:2005: 59.72006: 73.92007: 66.4Try again...2005 to now, right? That is what this poll is about.
oddball
Smart
I've been amusing you so far, since you shouldn't have even brought Johnson into the discussion, as he is not a starting QB today. Lets leave it to popular opinion, shall we? Poll coming...2007, Brad Johnson completed just 7 of 11 attempts on the whole year. He started zero games. You can throw that one out. 2006, he started 14 games, 9 tds to 15 ints... Vikes went 6-10. In 2005, he started 9 games, threw 12 TDs to 4 ints. Deemed the "stop gap" savior for the Vikes in 2006, only to look worse than someone attempting to use a passer rating from 11 passing attempts.2007, Grossman seen just 8 starts. His passer rating, as quoted, justifies his horrid performance last year. In 2006, he has a passer rating of 73.9 in a year of lopsided confusion. One week he had a 148 rating, one week he had a 1.3. The Bears still go on to the Super Bowl, thanks to the defense and Rex Grossman managing the ball game. His 2005 passer rating, again, like Johnson's from 2007, doesn't matter due to injuries and starting just 1 game.So, Johnson had a average half of a season in 2005 and a terrible 2006. Grossman had an up and down 2006 where he led the Bears to a 13-3 record and Super Bowl, only to follow it up with a terrible 2007.Maybe "someone" else should try again.Brad Johnson QB rating:2005: 88.92006: 72.02007: 85.0Rex Grossman QB rating:2005: 59.72006: 73.92007: 66.4Try again...2005 to now, right? That is what this poll is about.
MaddHatter
Footballguy
True indeed.I think it would be hard to navigate through some of the bad QB performances (min. 5 starts) and that it would have to be broken down in tiers... ex.)Tier 1Andrew Walterand so onTier 2Rex Grossman and so onetc.
MaddHatter
Footballguy
what starter or former starter is the worst?That is what the poll says guy.I've been amusing you so far, since you shouldn't have even brought Johnson into the discussion, as he is not a starting QB today. Lets leave it to popular opinion, shall we? Poll coming...2007, Brad Johnson completed just 7 of 11 attempts on the whole year. He started zero games. You can throw that one out. 2006, he started 14 games, 9 tds to 15 ints... Vikes went 6-10. In 2005, he started 9 games, threw 12 TDs to 4 ints. Deemed the "stop gap" savior for the Vikes in 2006, only to look worse than someone attempting to use a passer rating from 11 passing attempts.2007, Grossman seen just 8 starts. His passer rating, as quoted, justifies his horrid performance last year. In 2006, he has a passer rating of 73.9 in a year of lopsided confusion. One week he had a 148 rating, one week he had a 1.3. The Bears still go on to the Super Bowl, thanks to the defense and Rex Grossman managing the ball game. His 2005 passer rating, again, like Johnson's from 2007, doesn't matter due to injuries and starting just 1 game.Brad Johnson QB rating:2005: 88.92005 to now, right? That is what this poll is about.
2006: 72.0
2007: 85.0
Rex Grossman QB rating:
2005: 59.7
2006: 73.9
2007: 66.4
Try again...
So, Johnson had a average half of a season in 2005 and a terrible 2006.
Grossman had an up and down 2006 where he led the Bears to a 13-3 record and Super Bowl, only to follow it up with a terrible 2007.
Maybe "someone" else should try again.
So....
I'm wrong, but you think Croyle?Last year, one of those 2 had a QB rating of 69.9, the other had a QB rating of 66.4 Take a guess which is which. One turned it over 9 times in 9 games....one turned it over 10 times in 8 games. One had a completion % of of 56.7, the other had 54.2.Grossman sucked worse in every one of these categories, but I'm wrong and you think it's Croyle?What exactly are we supposed to base this on anyways? From a time frame? All time?
Carr might challenge Grossman for the crown.
oddball
Smart
Fair enough. Honestly, you feel Rex played better overall than Brad? I hope the thread/poll I started brings in some interesting discussion. I didn't watch every single game both played, but it seems to me Rex has been a liability to his team(being benched for poor play) whenever he is under center.what starter or former starter is the worst?That is what the poll says guy.I've been amusing you so far, since you shouldn't have even brought Johnson into the discussion, as he is not a starting QB today. Lets leave it to popular opinion, shall we? Poll coming...2007, Brad Johnson completed just 7 of 11 attempts on the whole year. He started zero games. You can throw that one out. 2006, he started 14 games, 9 tds to 15 ints... Vikes went 6-10. In 2005, he started 9 games, threw 12 TDs to 4 ints. Deemed the "stop gap" savior for the Vikes in 2006, only to look worse than someone attempting to use a passer rating from 11 passing attempts.2007, Grossman seen just 8 starts. His passer rating, as quoted, justifies his horrid performance last year. In 2006, he has a passer rating of 73.9 in a year of lopsided confusion. One week he had a 148 rating, one week he had a 1.3. The Bears still go on to the Super Bowl, thanks to the defense and Rex Grossman managing the ball game. His 2005 passer rating, again, like Johnson's from 2007, doesn't matter due to injuries and starting just 1 game.Brad Johnson QB rating:2005: 88.92005 to now, right? That is what this poll is about.
2006: 72.0
2007: 85.0
Rex Grossman QB rating:
2005: 59.7
2006: 73.9
2007: 66.4
Try again...
So, Johnson had a average half of a season in 2005 and a terrible 2006.
Grossman had an up and down 2006 where he led the Bears to a 13-3 record and Super Bowl, only to follow it up with a terrible 2007.
Maybe "someone" else should try again.
So....
MaddHatter
Footballguy
Dude, if either of us had to choose between the two, we both would be in a pretty crappy situation.At times, Rex played lights out... look at 2006 when by week 5, Grossman was being tabbed as an MVP candidate (you know how ESPN jumps the gun though, as I am not backing up that outrageous claim, just saying what they said).Fair enough. Honestly, you feel Rex played better overall than Brad? I hope the thread/poll I started brings in some interesting discussion. I didn't watch every single game both played, but it seems to me Rex has been a liability to his team(being benched for poor play) whenever he is under center.what starter or former starter is the worst?That is what the poll says guy.I've been amusing you so far, since you shouldn't have even brought Johnson into the discussion, as he is not a starting QB today. Lets leave it to popular opinion, shall we? Poll coming...2007, Brad Johnson completed just 7 of 11 attempts on the whole year. He started zero games. You can throw that one out. 2006, he started 14 games, 9 tds to 15 ints... Vikes went 6-10. In 2005, he started 9 games, threw 12 TDs to 4 ints. Deemed the "stop gap" savior for the Vikes in 2006, only to look worse than someone attempting to use a passer rating from 11 passing attempts.2007, Grossman seen just 8 starts. His passer rating, as quoted, justifies his horrid performance last year. In 2006, he has a passer rating of 73.9 in a year of lopsided confusion. One week he had a 148 rating, one week he had a 1.3. The Bears still go on to the Super Bowl, thanks to the defense and Rex Grossman managing the ball game. His 2005 passer rating, again, like Johnson's from 2007, doesn't matter due to injuries and starting just 1 game.Brad Johnson QB rating:2005: 88.92005 to now, right? That is what this poll is about.
2006: 72.0
2007: 85.0
Rex Grossman QB rating:
2005: 59.7
2006: 73.9
2007: 66.4
Try again...
So, Johnson had a average half of a season in 2005 and a terrible 2006.
Grossman had an up and down 2006 where he led the Bears to a 13-3 record and Super Bowl, only to follow it up with a terrible 2007.
Maybe "someone" else should try again.
So....
Johnson, was somewhat Mr. Dependable on a veteran basis with the Vikes (inconsistent at times, yes, good others, yes).
Overall, in that time period, I would say Rex played better because he reached the Super Bowl. Sure, he had better talent around him obviously, but ironically enough, Rex Grossman (of all QBs) reached the Super Bowl as many times as Dan Marino. Plus Grossman has just as many rings as Marino, Moon, McNabb, and so forth.
The Bears reached the superbowl in spite of Rex. There was a ton of talk about replacing him before they got to the big game.
oddball
Smart
I couldn't agree more!Maybe I'm just going by what is the general consensus in football circles. Like I said, I haven't watched all the games either played. Every time I've watched a bears game in the last couple years, I cringe whenever the offense is on the field.Wow. That is some sound logic right there.
That was my vote. How soon we forget a guy who's sent to the bench by Vinny in his street clothes.
MaddHatter
Footballguy
Well, maybe I should re-edit and put From 2005-til now, "quote" since this is getting miscontrued.Sound logic that you may not agree with but at the end of the day, how can Grossman be considered the worst QB to start a min. of 5 games since 2005? I was just expressing that I would rate Brad Johnson below him. Without going into further detail, it is obvious that guys like Frye, Weinke, Walter, deserve to be even further under the aforementioned Grossman and Johnson.
Is Grossman even the worst starting QB on his own team? I haven't seen anything inspiring about Kyle Orton's play when he's started for the Bears. When Grossman is at his worst, he's downright terrible, but at least once in a while he can actually spark the offense. Orton's been consistently mediocre and the passing game seems a complete afterthought when he's in there.
BTW the correct answer to the question, assuming you're only considering those who've started 5+ games since 2005, is Bruce Gradkowski. Others of note who haven't been mentioned yet include AJ Feeley, Joey Harrington, Cleo Lemon, JP Losman, and Brooks Bollinger.
BTW the correct answer to the question, assuming you're only considering those who've started 5+ games since 2005, is Bruce Gradkowski. Others of note who haven't been mentioned yet include AJ Feeley, Joey Harrington, Cleo Lemon, JP Losman, and Brooks Bollinger.
I know some of these are not good, but Croyle is horrible. I am sure he is a nice guy, but he has poor decision-making skills and his throws are erratic. The Chiefs were 0-6 in games Croyle started last yr.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
And will probably be 0-4 in his starts this year before Thiggyboy takes over.
Two things. First, Croyle had better offensive talent around him. Second, ignoring the stats and just going by what I've seen on the field, Croyle has been much worse than Grossman. At least Grossman presents some semblance of upside.
bcr8f
Footballguy
What no Bears? Outside of McMahon their last good QB was Sid Luckman.I'd say Orton.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
VY has been in the league two years and made it to the probowl one of them. He shouldn't even be on this list.Voted for Croyle. I don't ever see him putting it together either.
dirty_martini
Footballguy
Joey Harrington should be in the discussion ...
Last edited by a moderator:
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I'm not understanding this list...not all of those guys are "starting QBs" today. Seems unfair to include Charlie Frye in that list, for example.
Ding ding - Andre Johnson's YPC jumped 3.1 last season simply because he wasn't forced to work with Carr anymore. Carr was so bad he made the Carolina faithful wistful for the good old days with Weinke, and that is saying something really damning, IMO.BassNBrew said:
Jason Wood
Zoo York
OK...I just read through this entire thread and am mystified that Brad Johnson would be on this list.
He's a CAREER 62% passer and has completed at least 60% of his passes in each of his last THIRTEEN seasons. His adjusted yards per attempt is rock solid and has thrown more TDs than INTs in all but three seasons as a starter. He's also thrown for 60%+ completions, 3,000+ yards and 20+ TD seasons on not one, not two, but three different teams.
He was never the best QB in the league, but he was a highly effective and stable starter for a long time. It's patently absurd to include him in this discussion.
Why no mention of Trent Dilfer? At least a case could be made for him.
He's a CAREER 62% passer and has completed at least 60% of his passes in each of his last THIRTEEN seasons. His adjusted yards per attempt is rock solid and has thrown more TDs than INTs in all but three seasons as a starter. He's also thrown for 60%+ completions, 3,000+ yards and 20+ TD seasons on not one, not two, but three different teams.
He was never the best QB in the league, but he was a highly effective and stable starter for a long time. It's patently absurd to include him in this discussion.
Why no mention of Trent Dilfer? At least a case could be made for him.
you're right, Jason, in that the title of the thread has us all over the place"worst starting QB today"...then,
"worst starter or former starter '05-present"
so, what is it?either way, Trent doesn't qualify for either category....and I find it difficult talking about a guy that has been to a Pro Bowl and won a Super Bowl as "worst"
if we went back over the period Dilfer has been in the league (drafted 1.6 as 2nd QB off the board in '94, behind Heath Schuler), the guy drafted ahead of him qualifies before Dilfer, but neither hold a candle to that POS know as Ryan Leaf...not only for the money, but for the locker room cancer that he was
please...Dilfer is no prize, but to be discussed in these terms, as a 14 yr vet, PBowl and SBowl winner, is a bit ridiculous
Last edited by a moderator:
You can crawdad all you want, it doesn't make you look any smarter. The damage is done, you are dumb on here forever. Believe me, I've been there.2005 to now, right? That is what this poll is about.
49erBamBam52
Footballguy
As far as i can tell, it’s any QB who has started 5 games in the last 3-4 yrs (since '05)the SB win Dilfer had (which he almost singlehandedly ruined if it weren’t for his defense) does not count towards this poll... all that counts is his last 3-4 seasons as a 2nd stringer for Seattle, Cleveland (actually started 11 games there) and SF. He started 6 games for the Niners last year, and had 7 td's 12 ints and a QB rating of 55.1you're right, Jason, in that the title of the thread has us all over the place"worst starting QB today"...then,
"worst starter or former starter '05-present"
so, what is it?
either way, Trent doesn't qualify for either category....and I find it difficult talking about a guy that has been to a Pro Bowl and won a Super Bowl as "worst"
if we went back over the period Dilfer has been in the league (drafted 1.6 as 2nd QB off the board in '94, behind Heath Schuler), the guy drafted ahead of him qualifies before Dilfer, but neither hold a candle to that POS know as Ryan Leaf...not only for the money, but for the locker room cancer that he was
please...Dilfer is no prize, but to be discussed in these terms, as a 14 yr vet, PBowl and SBowl winner, is a bit ridiculous
at Cleveland in his 11 games there he amassed a whopping 11 td's 12 int's and a qb rating of 76.9
in Seattle (2004 so it actually shouldn’t count) he started 2 games had 1 td and 3 int's with a QB rating of 46.1
Heck even in his "famed" SB winning season he started 8 games, played in 11, got 12 td's and 11 int's with a qb rating of 76.6
He definitely belongs on this list... last year with the Niners he couldn’t even hit the side of a barn!!
He is definitely up there.
BAM
morris4903
Footballguy
The worst starting QB to have at least 5 starts since 2005 is probably either Andrew Walter or Charlie Frye.
The worst starting QB that was a regular starter since 2005 to now is either Joey Harrington or David Carr.
The worst starting QB that was a regular starter since 2005 to now is either Joey Harrington or David Carr.
The Man with the Plan
Footballguy
As of today? Brodie Croyle.
The Jacket
Footballguy
The worst QB in the league is the guy who consistently fails to get mentioned in thread such as this: Kellen Clemens.
Croyle, Grossman, Tarvaris Jackson, and quite a few others are close behind.
Croyle, Grossman, Tarvaris Jackson, and quite a few others are close behind.
Last edited by a moderator:
The Jacket
Footballguy
Croyle had Bowe and Gonzalez. And Bowe. And Gonzalez. And that Bowe guy is pretty good.Grossman's OL was far superior, as was his running game - and that says a lot. KC's supporting WRs were the worst in the NFL; at least the guys Chicago released found new homes pretty easily (and will remain on a roster unlike trash such as Samie Parker, who was KC's freaking No. 2 WR last year).SSOG said:
Of course. One's a Chief, the other's not. If Croyle was a Bronco, you'd think he's far superior, "based on what you've seen."SSOG said:
Chicago's running game was far superior to KC's? Admittedly, KC's was brutal- their 3.3 yards per carry ranked 31st in the NFL. The only team that was worse was... Chicago, who posted 3.1 team ypc. In terms of DVOA, the same holds true- KC at 31st, Chicago at 32nd. Croyle was sacked once every 13.2 attempts, while Grossman was sacked once every 9. And Grossman's skill position support is nowhere NEAR the level of Croyle's. Gonzo is better than Desmond Clark, Bowe is better than Berrian, and Samie Parker may be bad, but Muhsin Muhammad is done and Grossman's #3 WR was... Devin Hester. And do I really need to discuss the difference between Larry Johnson (even post-400 carry Johnson) and Cedric Benson?The Jacket said:
Yes, I'm a blind fan who automatically discounts all Chiefs and thinks they're the worst in the league. That's wholly consistent with the fact that I'm ardently arguing with you that all offensive players outside of Croyle in Kansas City are better than their counterparts in Chicag
h no, wait, I get it... I've got this niche bias, where I only hate on players from rival teams whose names begin with a B. First name, of course, because I don't hate on Bowe.Or no, I think all QBs on my team's rivals suck, but their skill position players are better than they really are.Give me a break. 
I still say Bruce Gradkoswki is even worse than Walter or Frye. He must suck if Gruden cut him before Simms, who he hates.
