Would you want your team to cheat like the Pats (1 Viewer)

[PMENFAN]

With the scandal the rings are IMO meaningless. So why have them?

What should they do with the rings? Who do you think should get them? I hope you don't say the Rams, Panthers and Eagles.......

No, I actually think those games should be wiped off the record, as the results cannot be validated, due to unfair competitive practices on the part of the higher scoring participant. I don't think the other teams participating should be awarded the rings either, as they didn't win either. I just think the league should swallow the pill and say the results of those games are invalid, and that there was no SB winner those years.

Glad you had something to add... So are you arguing that the Patriots won those games fairly? Because they've already admitted to cheating, I think it's hard to claim those games were won fairly. I'm not saying their opponents should get credit for the win. I just don't think the Pats should.

Let's extned this. Jimmy Johnson has admitted he used the same tactic. Steve Young acknowledged on MNF in a conversation w/ Bill Parcells that the 49ers would regularly "have trouble" with their headsets, forcing the other team to forego theirs, while they ran their scripted plays. Bill Belichick was the DC in NY for the Giants two wins. And we have the Denver Salary Cap issue. That's foughly 15 of the last 25 Superbowls. I don't feel like finding out when SF won their first. Let's also not forget Pittsburghs team doctor and his involvement with steroids. Every team has a scandal.But, I know your point. Only the Pats should give up their ring, because only they got caught red handed. Everybody cheats to some extent. Half of the game is figuring out what is coming next. And, often it's done by signal interception. If you can't deal with that, I suggest another hobby. They did it, they got caught, they paid the penalty, just as the Broncos did. But, you say that the rings mean nothing. Obviously you know they do, otherwise you wouldn't be advocating their surrendering them.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Everybody cheats to some extent.

 

[twitch]

Everybody cheats to some extent.

There are few people in professional football as respected as the Rooneys and Bill Cowher. A fact that as a fan would make me proud. Im sure youre aware of what theyve had to say on the subject. And I understand their comments can be taken as a bit 'political'. But Mr. Rooney in particular understands what it's like to have the finger pointed in his direction over similar issues. He doesnt live in a glass house, nor does he throw stones. Which is why he's so respected. He also probably understands there's a great deal about pro sports, football in particular, that most people dont need to really know. Or would ever understand. Just keep his perspective in mind.

 

[Da Guru]

Is there a need to ask a Detroit Lion fan this question?

 

[twitch]

Is there a need to ask a Detroit Lion fan this question?

Brady went to Michigan. Youre bound to be biased. Its funny how the fans of the "Goliaths" are now the "davids" of these kinds of discussions. And this side needs any slant it can get.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Pats were probably hoping to save yesterday's cheating for the superbowl. Found themselves behind by 14 in the 3rd quarter and had to dig it out.

Kind of embarassing that the Pats could not beat the Ravens straight up and had to resort to trick plays and cheating!

 

[Niles Standish]

Pats were probably hoping to save yesterday's cheating for the superbowl. Found themselves behind by 14 in the 3rd quarter and had to dig it out.

Kind of embarassing that the Pats could not beat the Ravens straight up and had to resort to trick plays and cheating!

It's embarrassing to resort to trick plays? You mean the Edelman pass? I think you're in the vast vast minority there. Like less than 1%.

 

[devouredbychaos]

Pats were probably hoping to save yesterday's cheating for the superbowl. Found themselves behind by 14 in the 3rd quarter and had to dig it out.

Kind of embarassing that the Pats could not beat the Ravens straight up and had to resort to trick plays and cheating!

Only a salty jealous whiner like you would bump a 7yr old post. Even the NFL said it was legal. Get over it.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Pats were probably hoping to save yesterday's cheating for the superbowl. Found themselves behind by 14 in the 3rd quarter and had to dig it out.

Kind of embarassing that the Pats could not beat the Ravens straight up and had to resort to trick plays and cheating!

It's embarrassing to resort to trick plays? You mean the Edelman pass? I think you're in the vast vast minority there. Like less than 1%.

i am sure he is talking the the weird formation with the rb declaring intelligible.

 

[HughHoney]

Pats were probably hoping to save yesterday's cheating for the superbowl. Found themselves behind by 14 in the 3rd quarter and had to dig it out.

Kind of embarassing that the Pats could not beat the Ravens straight up and had to resort to trick plays and cheating!

It's embarrassing to resort to trick plays? You mean the Edelman pass? I think you're in the vast vast minority there. Like less than 1%.

He's talking about the unorthodox formations and I agree. They got caught during spygate so now they're resorting to gimmick formations instead of lining up and trying to beat their opponents. Would expect nothing less outta BB.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Pats were probably hoping to save yesterday's cheating for the superbowl. Found themselves behind by 14 in the 3rd quarter and had to dig it out.

Kind of embarassing that the Pats could not beat the Ravens straight up and had to resort to trick plays and cheating!

what happened to the shark pool?

oh, that's right --- no change, whatsoever

 

[Niles Standish]

Pats were probably hoping to save yesterday's cheating for the superbowl. Found themselves behind by 14 in the 3rd quarter and had to dig it out.

Kind of embarassing that the Pats could not beat the Ravens straight up and had to resort to trick plays and cheating!

It's embarrassing to resort to trick plays? You mean the Edelman pass? I think you're in the vast vast minority there. Like less than 1%.

i am sure he is talking the the weird formation with the rb declaring intelligible.

Maybe, but that's what I'd imagine he was calling cheating. You're probably right. The and threw me off, that sounds like he means multiple things. Not a single thing.

 

[Jercules]

Pats were probably hoping to save yesterday's cheating for the superbowl. Found themselves behind by 14 in the 3rd quarter and had to dig it out.

Kind of embarassing that the Pats could not beat the Ravens straight up and had to resort to trick plays and cheating!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNGZo5gn_tc

 

[theplayer11]

Pats were probably hoping to save yesterday's cheating for the superbowl. Found themselves behind by 14 in the 3rd quarter and had to dig it out.

Kind of embarassing that the Pats could not beat the Ravens straight up and had to resort to trick plays and cheating!

It's embarrassing to resort to trick plays? You mean the Edelman pass? I think you're in the vast vast minority there. Like less than 1%.

He's talking about the unorthodox formations and I agree. They got caught during spygate so now they're resorting to gimmick formations instead of lining up and trying to beat their opponents. Would expect nothing less outta BB.

what a foolish comment. Gimmick formations? Give me a break..so much jealousy here. Football is all about formations and trying to "deceive" your opponent. Some coaches like Belichick are ahead of the curve and that pisses some fans of I guess.

 

[theplayer11]

Pats were probably hoping to save yesterday's cheating for the superbowl. Found themselves behind by 14 in the 3rd quarter and had to dig it out.

Kind of embarassing that the Pats could not beat the Ravens straight up and had to resort to trick plays and cheating!

and another jealous fan..I love it. NFL has already stated that what they did was totally legal, but feel free to call it cheating if it makes you feel better.

 

[jonessed]

The referees made a mistake yesterday by not giving the Ravens proper notice and the Patriots designed the play to exploit that likelihood. It wasn't cheating.

This is obviously nothing like the seriousness of Spygate.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Yes.

 

[HughHoney]

Yes I would want them to cheat like the Pats. And then I'd call anybody who thinks my team cheated trolls.

 

[Jercules]

The referees made a mistake yesterday by not giving the Ravens proper notice and the Patriots designed the play to exploit that likelihood. It wasn't cheating.

This is obviously nothing like the seriousness of Spygate.

This was a meaningless tactic that had barely any impact on the game. It's every bit as serious as 'spygate'!

 

[JIslander]

The referees made a mistake yesterday by not giving the Ravens proper notice and the Patriots designed the play to exploit that likelihood. It wasn't cheating.

This is obviously nothing like the seriousness of Spygate.

This was a meaningless tactic that had barely any impact on the game. It's every bit as serious as 'spygate'!

Not according to Brady in his presser. It was an important "weapon"

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

your mom's an important "weapon"

 

[JIslander]

your mom's an important "weapon"

better go finish your homework

 

[devouredbychaos]

The referees made a mistake yesterday by not giving the Ravens proper notice and the Patriots designed the play to exploit that likelihood. It wasn't cheating.

This is obviously nothing like the seriousness of Spygate.

This was a meaningless tactic that had barely any impact on the game. It's every bit as serious as 'spygate'!

Not according to Brady in his presser. It was an important "weapon"

God I love seeing how jealous and salty you are. Love it!

 

[JIslander]

Um. I didn't say it. Giselle's boyfriend did.

 

[Jercules]

The referees made a mistake yesterday by not giving the Ravens proper notice and the Patriots designed the play to exploit that likelihood. It wasn't cheating.

This is obviously nothing like the seriousness of Spygate.

This was a meaningless tactic that had barely any impact on the game. It's every bit as serious as 'spygate'!

Not according to Brady in his presser. It was an important "weapon"

I stand corrected sir! It was much more serious than 'spygate'!

 

[atcdav]

I dont understand this topic. Is it in reference to Harbaugh crying because his defense was outsmarted? Belechick hasn't dont anything most other teams havent dont accept get caught because a disgruntled coach sad something. Belechick will be remembered as one of the greats,

Oh, not a Pats fan BTW

 

[JohnnyU]

I dont understand this topic. Is it in reference to Harbaugh crying because his defense was outsmarted? Belechick hasn't dont anything most other teams havent dont accept get caught because a disgruntled coach sad something. Belechick will be remembered as one of the greats,

Oh, not a Pats fan BTW

Belichick will be considered....

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Pats were probably hoping to save yesterday's cheating for the superbowl. Found themselves behind by 14 in the 3rd quarter and had to dig it out.

Kind of embarassing that the Pats could not beat the Ravens straight up and had to resort to trick plays and cheating!

It's embarrassing to resort to trick plays? You mean the Edelman pass? I think you're in the vast vast minority there. Like less than 1%.

He's talking about the unorthodox formations and I agree. They got caught during spygate so now they're resorting to gimmick formations instead of lining up and trying to beat their opponents. Would expect nothing less outta BB.

Wait you mean this...

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/10/harbaugh-says-belichicks-formations-clearly-deception-brady-says-figure-it-out/

... is a thing?

The strategy in question involved Bill Belichick’s offense employing four offensive linemen instead of the standard five on a number of plays midway through the third quarter. Running back Shane Vereen lined up off the right side of the formation, and he declared himself an ineligible receiver. In essence, Vereen had become the fifth lineman, though with considerably different duties.

Referee Bill Vinovich announced to the stadium that Vereen was ineligible, yet the Ravens employed at least one defender to cover him as he sprinted backward from the line of scrimmage after the snap. Michael Hoomanwanui was left open on the other side of the field, and he picked up a 16-yard reception. Two plays later, Hoomanawanui declared himself ineligible. Brady connected with Julian Edelman for a gain of 11. And once more, Vereen declared himself ineligible, with Vinovich actually announcing that the Ravens should not cover No. 34. The Ravens, however, did cover No. 34, which allowed Brady to connect with Hoomanwanui for another 14 yards.

In the middle of that sequence, the Ravens were penalized for having too many men on the field, as the team was clearly confused by the strategy that few football viewers had ever seen before. And it was after that 14-yard gain by Hoomanwanui that Harbaugh lost his composure and drew a 5-yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Two plays later, Brady threw a touchdown to Rob Gronkowski, cutting the Ravens’ lead to 28-21. The Patriots went on to win 35-31.

After the season-ending loss, Harbaugh said he believes the NFL will investigate the strategy used by Belichick and how the on-field officials handled it.

“Yeah, a substitution type of trick,” Harbaugh said. “Normally, you get an opportunity to, [the officials will] give you a chance to make the proper substitutions and things like that. It’s not something that anybody’s ever done before. So maybe the league will look at that type of thing and I’m sure that they’ll make some adjustments and things like that.”

Harbaugh continued: “We wanted an opportunity to be able to ID who the eligible players were, because what they were doing was they would announce the ineligible player and then Tom would take them to the line right away and snap the ball before we had a chance to even figure out who was lined up where. And that was the deception part of it, and it was clearly deception.”

Harbaugh said the officials told him after the fact that they would give him the proper time to make substitutions, but Brady’s offense never again pulled the move.

“They probably should have [given us that opportunity to substitute] during that series, but they probably didn’t understand what was happening,” Harbaugh asserted. “That’s why I had to go take a penalty to get their attention so that they would understand what was going on. Because they didn’t understand what was going on. And they said that was the right thing, that they would give us a chance to ID the eligible receivers so that we could actually get them covered. That’s why guys were open, because we couldn’t ID where the eligible receivers were at.”

Harbaugh reiterated: “Nobody’s ever seen that before.”

I have to tell you, I appreciate this. I think I may actually thank the lord for Belichick.

This means football is alive. I love it.

Yes there was a time that any player could play any position. This almost belongs under the Death of Football thread, as in coaches like Harbaugh are trying to kill the actual original game and replace it with something that looks more like human ping pong.

I have news for you, the game is a regulated form of rugby.

 

[parrot]

What's with Terrell Suggs rushing the quarterback all the time? Isn't he a LINEBACKER and expected to back the line? Yet here he comes rushing up on the quarterback! It's almost as if they don't want the offense to know where the rush is coming from and to confuse them about how they should block. It seems really deceptive.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I dont understand this topic. Is it in reference to Harbaugh crying because his defense was outsmarted?

Pretty much what I was going to say.

 

[Freelove]

In a vacuum, I could almost dislike the Pats more just for Brady's snide comments about "doing their homework."

But since they were directed at a Harbaugh, I'm inclined to give him a pass, and maybe even a little extra GOAT cred.

 

[Deamon]

I don't get all this talk about how they suck without cheating. No one will say they cheated this year, and they are favourites to go to the superbowl again.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I doubt we see that formation again for many years. Essentially it is the Patriots agreeing to play their 10 against your 11, and leaving a wide open avenue towards their Q.B. since the lineman (in this case Vereen), split so wide, cannot move pre-snap absent an illegal motion penalty. Now the fact that the Ravens put a man over the ineligible receiver to not take the advantage is on them. The fact that they were confused as to who was eligible and did not cover him is, again, on them.

Were I the Head Coach of their next opponent I would have my quality control coach review old Nick Saben tapes for the next possible trick.

 

[Bossman]

" ... And once more, Vereen declared himself ineligible, with Vinovich (ref.) actually announcing that the Ravens "should not cover No. 34". The Ravens, however, did cover No. 34, which allowed Brady to connect with Hoomanwanui for another 14 yards."

The refs went out of their way to help the Ravens on the 3rd instance .. and the Ravens still screwed it up.

 

[lod01]

Neutral observer here. Not a fan of either team (rooting for Indy next week) but Harbug II is just showing his ### like his brother. Dude, you got your cone kicked. Take it like a man. You were outcoached, not cheated in any way.

 

[Doug B]

FWIW, Tony Dungy was on Dan Patrick this morning saying that Belichik's "ineligible RB" strategy would be outlawed this offseason. I wish Dan has asked him for a confidence factor or something. But Dungy was adamant that the Competition Committee would pretty much summarily put this to bed this spring. I wonder who Dungy talked to?

Anyway ... I am a little surprised this strategy hadn't been tried with some frequency (if not often) over the years.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I don't get all this talk about how they suck without cheating. No one will say they cheated this year, and they are favourites to go to the superbowl again.

you don't get internet trolling?

it's pretty common

unfortunately, on this particular board it crosses over to spamming

I feel like those camels in the geico ad, or progressive,or w/e it is

it's not even wednesday

 

[Shutout]

FWIW, Tony Dungy was on Dan Patrick this morning saying that Belichik's "ineligible RB" strategy would be outlawed this offseason. I wish Dan has asked him for a confidence factor or something. But Dungy was adamant that the Competition Committee would pretty much summarily put this to bed this spring. I wonder who Dungy talked to?

Anyway ... I am a little surprised this strategy hadn't been tried with some frequency (if not often) over the years.

Just my knee-jerk reaction, but I would guess nobody tries it because doing so would line your QB up to get killed if the defense is well coached and understands it.

On any of those plays, the Pats are playing short-handed on the line against the defense. If the Ravens had understood that in any way at all, they could have sent a defender in to get the QB AND doubled up another receiver because no matter where Vareen or the TE lined up, they can tell by formation which side they could get help on defensively.

 

[the moops]

Can an inelligible receiver catch a lateral pass? If so, seems like they could have run a Vereen screen if the Ravens decided to leave him alone.

 

[Doug B]

Just my knee-jerk reaction, but I would guess nobody tries it because doing so would line your QB up to get killed if the defense is well coached and understands it.

On any of those plays, the Pats are playing short-handed on the line against the defense. If the Ravens had understood that in any way at all, they could have sent a defender in to get the QB AND doubled up another receiver because no matter where Vareen or the TE lined up, they can tell by formation which side they could get help on defensively.

Maybe going forward ... it'll die a natural death like the Wildcat or something.

But I don't think any defense, any team, any coach over the last 30 years would've played that any differently than the Ravens did yesterday Probably wouldn't have worked all game long had the Patriots continued it, though.

 

[JIslander]

Two things about what Dungy said:

1) Vereen not notifying he was ineligble until he lined up vs. Before going into huddle

2) Vereeen becoming "ineligible" and "eligible" while staying in game.

#1 - that's pushing the sportsmanship part IMO. Play doesn't work so well I suppose if Vereen informs when he should.

#2 - refs blew no penalty on that

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Can an inelligible receiver catch a lateral pass? If so, seems like they could have run a Vereen screen if the Ravens decided to leave him alone.

yeah, and I think that's part of what made that effective is this isn't unusual usage for vereen -- they would normally split him wide, or in the slot, and normally use him on screens.

 

[Anarchy99]

Can an inelligible receiver catch a lateral pass? If so, seems like they could have run a Vereen screen if the Ravens decided to leave him alone.

yeah, and I think that's part of what made that effective is this isn't unusual usage for vereen -- they would normally split him wide, or in the slot, and normally use him on screens.

You can lateral or hand the ball off to whomever you want, even a lineman. I am not sure on the eligibility rules, but I believe 5 players are eligible to catch a forward pass. Not sure who is eligible to throw one, so it may not even be against the rules to have had Vereen go back to catch the lateral and then have him throw a forward pass.

At some point some team will hand off the ball to a pulling guard and act like the RB has it. Only a matter of time.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Next week I expect them to have a 6th lineman report as eligible and to send him in motion on a hard count, drawing the defense off-sides.

 

[FWmaker]

Next week I expect them to have a 6th lineman report as eligible and to send him in motion on a hard count, drawing the defense off-sides.

LOL at DW!!!!

 

[Dizzy]

What's with Terrell Suggs rushing the quarterback all the time? Isn't he a LINEBACKER and expected to back the line? Yet here he comes rushing up on the quarterback! It's almost as if they don't want the offense to know where the rush is coming from and to confuse them about how they should block. It seems really deceptive.

I agree, that's just plain dirty!

signed,

Steelers Fan

 

[The Great Snook]

I couldn't find an acceptable answer to the poll as all the options clearly had an anti-NE bias. Personally, I am more than fine with the way everything has turned out. All of the "spygate" crying is just sour grapes by fans of losing teams. There are more than a couple of teams that have far more serious cheating going on, let's call them "roid-teams" then anything that has ever been rumored to have happened in NE. To the best of my knowledge no one has been able to show that the supposed cheating of "spy-gate" ever amounted to a competitive advantage in a game.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

What's with Terrell Suggs rushing the quarterback all the time? Isn't he a LINEBACKER and expected to back the line? Yet here he comes rushing up on the quarterback! It's almost as if they don't want the offense to know where the rush is coming from and to confuse them about how they should block. It seems really deceptive.

I missed that one

glad somebody quoted it

 

[lod01]

Next thing you know, Harbug II will want the Patriots to tell him what play they are running. It's sooooo unfair that you are doing something legal, according to the rules, but aren't telling me in time for me to figure out what I should do.

This whole thing is so comical.

 

[parrot]

Next thing you know, Harbug II will want the Patriots to tell him what play they are running. It's sooooo unfair that you are doing something legal, according to the rules, but aren't telling me in time for me to figure out what I should do.

This whole thing is so comical.

In Harbaugh's defense the league really should look at giving coaches some kind of mechanism whereby they could stop the game prior to the snap without penalty if they saw something they didn't like. Maybe even let them do it like three times per half or something.