Would you want your team to cheat like the Pats (1 Viewer)

[JIslander]

yeah, BB should keep exploiting it before competition committee puts an end to it next year. It would be fun to see Indy or Seattle plaster Brady once with it in place however...

 

[Anarchy99]

I don't get why people are even remotely offended by NOT playing a lineman at a lineman spot. The rules have been the same since the dawn of time. NE did not break any rules (in this case), and they did exactly what they were supposed to by telling the refs. From people that I heard from that were at the game, they announced it on the P.A. system and even the fans knew what the Patriots had done. If the Ravens got confused, they could have called time out. Not sure why the NFL would change anything (or what they could possibly change for that matter).

 

[JIslander]

I don't get why people are even remotely offended by NOT playing a lineman at a lineman spot. The rules have been the same since the dawn of time. NE did not break any rules (in this case), and they did exactly what they were supposed to by telling the refs. From people that I heard from that were at the game, they announced it on the P.A. system and even the fans knew what the Patriots had done. If the Ravens got confused, they could have called time out. Not sure why the NFL would change anything (or what they could possibly change for that matter).

What Dungy said (and I don't know, wasn't at the game) was Vereen didnt claim ineligible until he was up at the line.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I don't get why people are even remotely offended by NOT playing a lineman at a lineman spot. The rules have been the same since the dawn of time. NE did not break any rules (in this case), and they did exactly what they were supposed to by telling the refs. From people that I heard from that were at the game, they announced it on the P.A. system and even the fans knew what the Patriots had done. If the Ravens got confused, they could have called time out. Not sure why the NFL would change anything (or what they could possibly change for that matter).

What Dungy said (and I don't know, wasn't at the game) was Vereen didnt claim ineligible until he was up at the line.

you can watch the clips to see how it all went down

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I don't get why people are even remotely offended by NOT playing a lineman at a lineman spot. The rules have been the same since the dawn of time. NE did not break any rules (in this case), and they did exactly what they were supposed to by telling the refs. From people that I heard from that were at the game, they announced it on the P.A. system and even the fans knew what the Patriots had done. If the Ravens got confused, they could have called time out. Not sure why the NFL would change anything (or what they could possibly change for that matter).

nobody's even remotely offended by it --- it's the pats, so it's just an opportunity for more nonsense trolling like you've seen a thousand other times

much of it probably under your watch, as I think you were probably staff in '07

of course, it'll be a very sad time when people stop talking about us......

 

[JIslander]

I don't get why people are even remotely offended by NOT playing a lineman at a lineman spot. The rules have been the same since the dawn of time. NE did not break any rules (in this case), and they did exactly what they were supposed to by telling the refs. From people that I heard from that were at the game, they announced it on the P.A. system and even the fans knew what the Patriots had done. If the Ravens got confused, they could have called time out. Not sure why the NFL would change anything (or what they could possibly change for that matter).

nobody's even remotely offended by it --- it's the pats, so it's just an opportunity for more nonsense trolling like you've seen a thousand other times

much of it probably under your watch, as I think you were probably staff in '07

of course, it'll be a very sad time when people stop talking about us......

I could care less how they lineup, but its the typical "playing within the rules to game the system" of BB ...I trust Dungy has a legit idea as to why this will be adjusted in the off-season.

 

[JohnnyU]

I don't get why people are even remotely offended by NOT playing a lineman at a lineman spot. The rules have been the same since the dawn of time. NE did not break any rules (in this case), and they did exactly what they were supposed to by telling the refs. From people that I heard from that were at the game, they announced it on the P.A. system and even the fans knew what the Patriots had done. If the Ravens got confused, they could have called time out. Not sure why the NFL would change anything (or what they could possibly change for that matter).

nobody's even remotely offended by it --- it's the pats, so it's just an opportunity for more nonsense trolling like you've seen a thousand other times

much of it probably under your watch, as I think you were probably staff in '07

of course, it'll be a very sad time when people stop talking about us......

I could care less how they lineup, but its the typical "playing within the rules to game the system" of BB ...I trust Dungy has a legit idea as to why this will be adjusted in the off-season.

Isn't it "couldn't care less"

 

[JohnnyU]

I don't get why people are even remotely offended by NOT playing a lineman at a lineman spot. The rules have been the same since the dawn of time. NE did not break any rules (in this case), and they did exactly what they were supposed to by telling the refs. From people that I heard from that were at the game, they announced it on the P.A. system and even the fans knew what the Patriots had done. If the Ravens got confused, they could have called time out. Not sure why the NFL would change anything (or what they could possibly change for that matter).

nobody's even remotely offended by it --- it's the pats, so it's just an opportunity for more nonsense trolling like you've seen a thousand other times

much of it probably under your watch, as I think you were probably staff in '07

of course, it'll be a very sad time when people stop talking about us......

The refs are probably not happy about being showed up and will take it out on Belichick this weekend.

 

[Anarchy99]

How were the refs showed up? The Pats did what they were supposed to by stating who was eligible to the refs. The refs did what they were supposed to by announcing it to the entire stadium. The only ones that look bad are the Ravens, who have egg on their face and could not figure out what was happening.

 

[JIslander]

How were the refs showed up? The Pats did what they were supposed to by stating who was eligible to the refs. The refs did what they were supposed to by announcing it to the entire stadium. The only ones that look bad are the Ravens, who have egg on their face and could not figure out what was happening.

From what I heard, its not all that crystal clear.

 

[Anarchy99]

Link?

 

[JIslander]

Go listen to Tony Dungy on Dan Patrick pod cast.

Of course he says it was "brilliant" --(how can a fellow retired coach disparage BB?) -yet, he pretty much said notification of ineligiblity wasn't until Vereen went to line--and then he stayed in the game and was "eligible" for next play/series. Refs should have penalized that. Meanwhile ..50+ yards were gained.

 

[ratbast]

Pats haters are getting old and tired. This thread represents a turning point (2008?). The debates are old. The Ravens game scandal is a reach that has been debunked everywhere on the web.

Go pound sand losers!

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Go listen to Tony Dungy on Dan Patrick pod cast.

Of course he says it was "brilliant" --(how can a fellow retired coach disparage BB?) -yet, he pretty much said notification of ineligiblity wasn't until Vereen went to line--and then he stayed in the game and was "eligible" for next play/series. Refs should have penalized that. Meanwhile ..50+ yards were gained.

“The whole issue with Baltimore is they felt they weren’t given enough time [to match up],” Blandino told King. “We will review the three plays, but it appears from a mechanical standpoint that the announcement was made properly, the defense was notified, and the proper mechanics were executed.’

looking fwd to next week's board spamming troll

 

[ShamrockPride]

Think about things for a moment-if you could guarantee your team could repeat the success of the Patriots from the past several seasons (3 championships), but it meant your team would deal with the fallout they're currently going through, would you take the rings?

I think the reason the Patriots are having to deal with this (other than the fact that Belicheat is an ###).... is because they WON 3 championships.If the Cardinals were in the same situation... who would care?

If the Cardinals suddenly won three Super Bowls, people would care if they had cheated their way to those wins.

Yeah, Belichick didn't strike anyone as a great coach until he started winning championships. Now we find out just how he did it, so is anyone really regarding him as a genius anymore?In answer to the question, no. Integrity of your reputation and the game must be of greater importance than winning. To use a golf analogy, say you shoot your lowest round ever while taking a couple mulligans and use the old foot-wedge to get out of the woods. Your score even breaks the golf course record so you get some notoriety with it too. Each and everytime someone pats you on the back congratulating you, you think back to that extra shot or two (mulligans) or that birdie you made only because you kicked your ball out of the woods. Kind of hard to look yourself in the mirror and say 'I'm a champion' without a sense of revulsion.

When people remember the Patriots dynasty 20-30 years from now, what will be remembered? Will your kids fully understand the cheating or will they simply recall New England having a fantastic dynasty?Years from now, the cheating won't be remembered so clearly-but everyone will still remember the rings.

Lol, pretty wishful thinking there. That kind of scandal will never be forgotten. Historic penalty. And especially if no rings are won afterwards. It would be magnified even more. You don't attach the ___-gate ending onto something that will be forgotten down the line.

 

[ghostguy123]

The Pats got caught. Other teams didnt.

I would happily take titles and some controversy over it, jesus yes.

 

[jonessed]

Next thing you know, Harbug II will want the Patriots to tell him what play they are running. It's sooooo unfair that you are doing something legal, according to the rules, but aren't telling me in time for me to figure out what I should do.

This whole thing is so comical.

Maybe he should videotape the practices so he knows in advance.

 

[JIslander]

Go listen to Tony Dungy on Dan Patrick pod cast.

Of course he says it was "brilliant" --(how can a fellow retired coach disparage BB?) -yet, he pretty much said notification of ineligiblity wasn't until Vereen went to line--and then he stayed in the game and was "eligible" for next play/series. Refs should have penalized that. Meanwhile ..50+ yards were gained.

“The whole issue with Baltimore is they felt they weren’t given enough time [to match up],” Blandino told King. “We will review the three plays, but it appears from a mechanical standpoint that the announcement was made properly, the defense was notified, and the proper mechanics were executed.’

looking fwd to next week's board spamming troll

spamming troll? just say you think Dungy is misinformed. You don't always have to respond like an ###.

 

[Tanner9919]

as much as I dislike the Pats , this wasn't cheating..was it working in the 'gray area'? perhaps..Ravens had chances to win the game, you can't blow two 14 pt leads and then cry about some whacky play..

Ravens needed to hang on and win that game.

not sure why they took that Pats defensive holding penalty on that last drive, giving Ravnes1st a 5 instead of 2nd and 1 at midfield. you need to score a TD, the 4 yard difference there is/was huge,IMO..

and they probably shouldn't have settled for a late game FG , try for the TD..going up 3 against Brady with

time on the clock is always a bad idea..you have to go for 7 there..

Colts have ZERO, none,nada, zippo chance against the Patriots..

oh,I love how Goodell made the effort to go to the game, after last week's announcement of no evidence that any NFL rep saw the Rice tape..

Kraft, his best friend/biggest backer, and the PR machine, told him it's probably not so good to sit with Kraft in the warm booth upstairs, so he 'elected' to be in the stands like the 'common folk'.

nice..

yeah my bromance with Kraft isn't what it appears, we're not that close that I can sit in the luxury boxes with him..



what a put on.

 

[FlapJacks]

FWIW, Tony Dungy was on Dan Patrick this morning saying that Belichik's "ineligible RB" strategy would be outlawed this offseason. I wish Dan has asked him for a confidence factor or something. But Dungy was adamant that the Competition Committee would pretty much summarily put this to bed this spring. I wonder who Dungy talked to?

Anyway ... I am a little surprised this strategy hadn't been tried with some frequency (if not often) over the years.

these guys would outlaw the fake FG and onsides kick if somebody had just invented them

what a bunch of dumb #######s

 

[FlapJacks]

Next thing you know, Harbug II will want the Patriots to tell him what play they are running. It's sooooo unfair that you are doing something legal, according to the rules, but aren't telling me in time for me to figure out what I should do.

This whole thing is so comical.

In Harbaugh's defense the league really should look at giving coaches some kind of mechanism whereby they could stop the game prior to the snap without penalty if they saw something they didn't like. Maybe even let them do it like three times per half or something.

 

[devouredbychaos]

Go listen to Tony Dungy on Dan Patrick pod cast.

Of course he says it was "brilliant" --(how can a fellow retired coach disparage BB?) -yet, he pretty much said notification of ineligiblity wasn't until Vereen went to line--and then he stayed in the game and was "eligible" for next play/series. Refs should have penalized that. Meanwhile ..50+ yards were gained.

The whole issue with Baltimore is they felt they werent given enough time [to match up], Blandino told King. We will review the three plays, but it appears from a mechanical standpoint that the announcement was made properly, the defense was notified, and the proper mechanics were executed.

looking fwd to next week's board spamming troll

spamming troll? just say you think Dungy is misinformed. You don't always have to respond like an ###.

And you don't always have to act like a humongous salty #####.. It certainly brings the lulz though

 

[Raider Nation]

Bob Kravitz @bkravitz · 1d 1 day ago

Breaking: A league source tells me the NFL is investigating the possibility the Patriots deflated footballs Sunday night. More to come.

Bob Kravitz @bkravitz · 1d 1 day ago

Told if a league investigation confirms deflated footballs it will result in lost draft picks. Stay tuned.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

while you're at it, investigate indy's deflated hopes and dreams

 

[Raider Nation]

http://picload.org/image/ccwpcgp/1-20-20151-08-58am.jpg

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

somebody needs to 'shop a pic of that dude raising a barn

 

[tombonneau]

Great job by Kravitz spinning a story. I'm sure there was a ball that a ref thought felt off - likely the delay to start second half - which triggered some automatic review procedure in the league and that's all this is. But makes for great Twitter click bait.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Can't wait for the first Super Bowl NE td being followed by the player squeezing the ball like there's not enough air in it.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I'm guessing gronk's first td celebration will be pumping up a football with an imaginary bike pump

 

[Bad_Mo]

How did Saints fans vote?

What about Packers fans?

...and, ah...oh...just EVERY other team in the league?!

 

[JohnnyU]

I'm guessing gronk's first td celebration will be pumping up a football with an imaginary bike pump

That Seattle defense will be ready for the gronkster.

 

[Bad_Mo]

I'm guessing gronk's first td celebration will be pumping up a football with an imaginary bike pump

That Seattle defense will be ready for the gronkster.

I would love nothing better than The Gronk steamrolling Sherman en route to a TD, leaving The Sherm battered, bruised and writhing in pain in his wake.

 

[TDorBust]

How did Saints fans vote?

What about Packers fans?

...and, ah...oh...just EVERY other team in the league?!

Can you specify what the Packers have done to cheat? I guess I don't exactly understand the question/sarcastic remarks?

 

[Braktastic]

If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying.

 

[Deamon]

How did Saints fans vote?

What about Packers fans?

...and, ah...oh...just EVERY other team in the league?!

Can you specify what the Packers have done to cheat? I guess I don't exactly understand the question/sarcastic remarks?

Rodgers admitted to pushing the limits of the football weight, and purposely over inflating the balls past what the league allows, to see if the refs would take some air out of it.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying.

If you are cheating, you've already lost.

 

[amnesiac]

If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying.

If you are cheating, you've already lost.

if you're not taking head shots at your opponent, why bother?

 

[Jercules]

I'm guessing gronk's first td celebration will be pumping up a football with an imaginary bike pump

That Seattle defense will be ready for the gronkster.

Of course, they didn't shoot up all that... <ahem>... Adderall... for nothing!

 

[Eminence]

^^^

 

[Freelove]

At least, if nothing else, this will end the Tom Brady GOAT talk in a lot of the media once and for all.

Like it or not, that's an imaginary, PR-driven accolade, and Tom has moved from being in the Sandy Koufax, Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove tier of QB's to a permanent place as the Gaylord Perry with this most recent black eye.



Pity. I thought he was building a good case. But when so much of your case is winning, and you weren't able to get there within the scope of the rules, you're gonna lose traction with the guys who write America's opinions.

 

[FUBAR]

I'm guessing gronk's first td celebration will be pumping up a football with an imaginary bike pump

That Seattle defense will be ready for the gronkster.

Yeah, they might limit him to 2 touchdowns.

 

[Capella]

http://picload.org/image/ccwpcgp/1-20-20151-08-58am.jpg

Sbnation has been doing these all year. Whoever came up with that picture is a genius.

 

[Anarchy99]

All this gets me back to what I have posted at various points in some of these threads. AND I AM NOT CONDONING THEIR BEHAVIOR.

But it seems to me that BB not only has no problem pushing the envelope, but he doesn't care what people think and if they get caught.

If I were to guess, I suspect NE pushed the outside limit of the rules, fair play, good sportsmanship, or whatever you want to call it (cheating). They probably do it in 100 different ways. So no one thing would probably lead people to think that it gave them a big advantage but all 100 might.

Part of the problem with all this is that the NFL rules, operations manuals, or outlined disciplinary measures don't spell out what the penalties would be if caught. The only listing for using under or over inflated balls calls for a $25,000 fine and additional penalty if necessary.

Compare that to driving infractions. You get so many points on your license, the fines are spelled out, and you can serve jail time. It's clear, concise, and spelled out. Same thing with the law. The crimes are described and the penalties are depicted (with ranges). "You do the crime, you serve the time."

Football doesn't have defined boundaries, so someone like BB is going to feed and feast on that. So much of the rulebook is gray that most of it is not black or white. If people want to call for a stiff penalty for BB and the Pats, (fine, lost picks, suspension) so be it. To some it will be justified, to others it would be ludicrous to impose strict sanctions. Is it BB's fault the rules are vague or the penalties not enumerated?

Which brings us full circle. Would you want your team to have a coach that will do just about anything to win?

 

[Raider Nation]

Great job by Kravitz spinning a story. I'm sure there was a ball that a ref thought felt off - likely the delay to start second half - which triggered some automatic review procedure in the league and that's all this is. But makes for great Twitter click bait.

Good call. Can't believe how quickly this story went away.

 

[Road Warriors]

Superbowl referees to use new hand signals to help Seahawks defense overcome Patriots cheating schemes...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-to-assist-seahawks-in-iding-pats-ineligible-receiver-sets/ar-AA8Kcb4

Woulda been nice if this had been in place for the Patriots-Ravens game!

Yeah, telling the defense, "Hey, don't cover that guy over there" wasn't enough. Maybe they should have the Pats tell the defense what play they're running, so they can prepare adequately for it.

 

[beef]

Whole lot of jealous fans from loser teams in this thread.

 

[Madden Curse]

All this gets me back to what I have posted at various points in some of these threads. AND I AM NOT CONDONING THEIR BEHAVIOR.

But it seems to me that BB not only has no problem pushing the envelope, but he doesn't care what people think and if they get caught.

If I were to guess, I suspect NE pushed the outside limit of the rules, fair play, good sportsmanship, or whatever you want to call it (cheating). They probably do it in 100 different ways. So no one thing would probably lead people to think that it gave them a big advantage but all 100 might.

Part of the problem with all this is that the NFL rules, operations manuals, or outlined disciplinary measures don't spell out what the penalties would be if caught. The only listing for using under or over inflated balls calls for a $25,000 fine and additional penalty if necessary.

Compare that to driving infractions. You get so many points on your license, the fines are spelled out, and you can serve jail time. It's clear, concise, and spelled out. Same thing with the law. The crimes are described and the penalties are depicted (with ranges). "You do the crime, you serve the time."

Football doesn't have defined boundaries, so someone like BB is going to feed and feast on that. So much of the rulebook is gray that most of it is not black or white. If people want to call for a stiff penalty for BB and the Pats, (fine, lost picks, suspension) so be it. To some it will be justified, to others it would be ludicrous to impose strict sanctions. Is it BB's fault the rules are vague or the penalties not enumerated?

Which brings us full circle. Would you want your team to have a coach that will do just about anything to win?

You had me until the last line. The question is not that nefarious. The question, based on what you wrote (virtually all of which I agree with) is:

"Would you want your team to have a coach with a fluent understanding of ALL the rules, no matter how minor or obscure? And assuming you do, would you want that coach to exploit all the rules' inconsistencies and gray areas to benefit his team, no matter how minor or unproven the effect of this exploitation?"

I would.

 

[ghostguy123]

Hmm, will I take the Brown's history or several titles and a few scandals??

Stupid question.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

#### NO.

You can keep the cr@p that is the Patriots in New England.

Ill-gotten gains. Any schmucks can cheat and steal.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

the Broncos cheated the salary cap during their super bowl years.......people forget things over time