WR Brandin Cooks, Free Agent (3 Viewers)

[satch]

Again, I don't like these assumptions. Kraft doesn't strike me as a guy who meddles and BB doesn't strike me as a guy who would like his owner getting in the middle of things. If we're making assumptions, the one I feel is most likely is that BB has earned the right to make whatever trades he wants and doesn't consult with anyone he doesn't consider an expert.

If you don't like to make assumptions, why are you assuming Kraft's interest in his own team has to be in a meddlesome fashion? I agree that Kraft has likely given Belichick the green light generally speaking, but that doesn't mean Kraft isn't interested in, excited about, and in the know regarding what's going on with his team. Belichick is probably pretty excited about what Cooks brings to the Patriots and more than happy to discuss it with the guy writing his checks. I imagine their discussions about the Cooks trade revolved not around consulting with, or getting Krafts approval, but rather about Belichick telling Kraft how much he's going to bring to the team.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Kraft doesn't strike me as a guy who meddles and BB doesn't strike me as a guy who would like his owner getting in the middle of things.

There's a major difference between meddling and giving approval for trading away a first round pick while taking on a significant contract.
I'm not saying read too much into what Kraft says at all, but I do believe he was part of the process when Belichick was looking into acquiring Cooks.

 

[satch]

There's a major difference between meddling and giving approval for trading away a first round pick while taking on a significant contract.
I'm not saying read too much into what Kraft says at all, but I do believe he was part of the process when Belichick was looking into acquiring Cooks.

Exactly. I think Kraft and Belichick have a shared mutual respect for each other. Kraft doesn't meddle, but Belichick respects him enough, and owes it to him, to keep him in the loop and discuss potential major moves with him. At some point, Kraft has to "sign off" on a deal like that, and those discussions with Belichick likely led to Krafts comments about Cooks. 

The specific mention of "Randy Moss" is unimportant. But I do think the overall level of excitement about Cooks, and mentioning him in the company of great Pats WRs of the past is relatively significant when attempting to project Cooks fantasy prospects in the Pats offense.

 

[FF Ninja]

If you don't like to make assumptions, why are you assuming Kraft's interest in his own team has to be in a meddlesome fashion? I agree that Kraft has likely given Belichick the green light generally speaking, but that doesn't mean Kraft isn't interested in, excited about, and in the know regarding what's going on with his team. Belichick is probably pretty excited about what Cooks brings to the Patriots and more than happy to discuss it with the guy writing his checks. I imagine their discussions about the Cooks trade revolved not around getting Krafts approval, but rather about how much he's going to bring to the team, leading to Krafts excitement.

Maybe meddle wasn't the right word. I basically just don't think he requires a lot of BB as far as information and I don't think BB spends a lot of time chatting about his decisions to anyone that isn't an adviser of sorts (trusted scout, salary cap-ologist, etc.).

But whatever. I don't know why I'm in here (yes, I do - it's my ADD plus the fact there are very few active threads). I don't want Cooks and won't have him in any leagues. You guys can high five each other about meaningless owner soundbites all you want. I'll back out and watch Cooks underperform his ADP from afar. But you've been warned. 

 

[FF Ninja]

There's a major difference between meddling and giving approval for trading away a first round pick while taking on a significant contract.
I'm not saying read too much into what Kraft says at all, but I do believe he was part of the process when Belichick was looking into acquiring Cooks.

Didn't see this one before my other post, but I don't think BB has to ask approval to trade a late 1st and I believe Cooks is on a rookie contract so it's not actually that significant. I'm guessing 2 mil for this year?

 

[satch]

You guys can high five each other about meaningless owner soundbites all you want. 

God fobid fantasy football be fun.

 

[FF Ninja]

God fobid fantasy football be fun.

If that's the part you find to be fun, we enjoy very different aspects about this game.

 

[satch]

If that's the part you find to be fun, we enjoy very different aspects about this game.

Fortunately, I allow myself to enjoy multiple aspects of FF rather than limit myself to just one. And yes, that includes sifting through and trying to decipher offseason chatter, rumors, and coach-speak. Not sure why someone who doesn't enjoy doung so would be posting on a fantasy football message board in the middle of June about a player they've already concluded will not be on any if their teams.

 

[FF Ninja]

Fortunately, I allow myself to enjoy multiple aspects of FF rather than limit myself to just one. And yes, that includes sifting through and trying to decipher offseason chatter, rumors, and coach-speak. Not sure why someone who doesn't enjoy doung so would be posting on a fantasy football message board in the middle of June about a player they've already concluded will not be on any if their teams.

ADD. I have it in spades. I bounce around from one thing to another at work and when I get bored I pop in here. I try to stick to topics that interest me, but when no interesting topics are active I'll hop in a popular thread to see what the fuss is about. Kept seeing this one bumped so I eventually clicked.

Sifting through offseason news is like homework for me. Nobody knows if it means anything right now, so I don't see any reason to get excited about any of it. It's worse than getting excited about a hometown team going 4-0 in the preseason. 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Maybe meddle wasn't the right word. I basically just don't think he requires a lot of BB as far as information and I don't think BB spends a lot of time chatting about his decisions to anyone that isn't an adviser of sorts (trusted scout, salary cap-ologist, etc.).

But whatever. I don't know why I'm in here (yes, I do - it's my ADD plus the fact there are very few active threads). I don't want Cooks and won't have him in any leagues. You guys can high five each other about meaningless owner soundbites all you want. I'll back out and watch Cooks underperform his ADP from afar. But you've been warned. 

Glad that you aren't interested in assumptions.  There are certainly no assumptions embedded in your viewpoint.

 

[FF Ninja]

Glad that you aren't interested in assumptions.  There are certainly no assumptions embedded in your viewpoint.

 C'mon. You have to see what I'm saying here. I'd rather assume an "ownerspeak" blurb (worth less than a "coachspeak" blurb, which we all recognize is pretty worthless) means nothing than to assume it actually has some weight to it. I get that people have a strong need to seek out confirmation bias, but this is taking it too far. But clearly people in this thread are solely looking for an echo chamber, so have at it. I'll gladly stand aside and let you guys hype him up so I can get a real WR1 at a WR2 price.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Didn't see this one before my other post, but I don't think BB has to ask approval to trade a late 1st and I believe Cooks is on a rookie contract so it's not actually that significant. I'm guessing 2 mil for this year?

The 5th year option (which they immediately picked up) is fairly significant (I think like $8.5MM) - and I am pretty sure owners generally sign off on deals like this even if it's a mere formality.

For the record I own Cooks in two leagues, but I do agree with you for the most part. I have concerns about "too many mouths to feed" - but at the same time I think he's a tremendous talent and I'm too afraid that if I move him he'll reach his upside. I expect him to be fairly inconsistent from week to week, but since I have solid teams in both those leagues I can likely survive his "down" weeks. 

 

[Tau837]

Man, it is really the dead part of the offseason... 

 

[Ilov80s]

Man, it is really the dead part of the offseason... 

Seriously. This conversation on speculating how involved an owner might be is the low point of the offseason.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

 C'mon. You have to see what I'm saying here. I'd rather assume an "ownerspeak" blurb (worth less than a "coachspeak" blurb, which we all recognize is pretty worthless) means nothing than to assume it actually has some weight to it. I get that people have a strong need to seek out confirmation bias, but this is taking it too far. But clearly people in this thread are solely looking for an echo chamber, so have at it. I'll gladly stand aside and let you guys hype him up so I can get a real WR1 at a WR2 price.

I'm not hyping him up.  You must be confusing me with someone else.

And I do get what you're saying.  But I also think it is important to be intellectually honest.  You are making assumptions too - it might be worth clinically assessing those assumptions and how reasonable they are.

 

[Bayhawks]

Those of you mocking Robert Krafts opinion are missing a key point. His opinion is essentially Bill Belichicks opinion. Kraft comparing Cooks potential impact to that of Randy Moss is likely coming directly from conversations with Bill Belichick during the Cooks trade discussions. 

Is this the same BB who drafted Aaron Dobson?  And signed Ochocinco?  And Brandon Lloyd?  

If we're gonna link Kraft to BB with regards to Cooks, isn't it fair to also link him to the MANY swings-and-misses BB has had at WR?

 

[satch]

Is this the same BB who drafted Aaron Dobson?  And signed Ochocinco?  And Brandon Lloyd?  

If we're gonna link Kraft to BB with regards to Cooks, isn't it fair to also link him to the MANY swings-and-misses BB has had at WR?

I read your post a few times but honestly don't understand your point. What do any of those players have to do with Cooks? And what's the significance of linking them to Kraft?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

12 team ppr QB - 2 RB - 3 WR - TE - FL

Team A gave up Anderson, Robby NYJ WR; Hopkins, DeAndre HOU WR

Team B gave up Adams, Davante GBP WR; Hill, Tyreek KCC WR

 

[FF Ninja]

I'm not hyping him up.  You must be confusing me with someone else.

And I do get what you're saying.  But I also think it is important to be intellectually honest.  You are making assumptions too - it might be worth clinically assessing those assumptions and how reasonable they are.

By piling on and attempting to talk down the voice of reason (person saying ownerspeak is worthless) you are clearly in the pro-hype camp.

Yes, I'm assuming that one of two things are true... (1) this is nothing more than a meaningless vote of confidence in his coach's latest acquisition and/or (2) Kraft, like most of the other owners, is generally clueless when it comes to field personnel, but that seems a much safer assumption than that Kraft is actually echoing what BB told him. And I'm basing this on the fact that I've never once in my life heard a useful blurb from an owner. So I ask you, when was the last time you heard something useful from an owner? Now you tell me how reasonable the two assumptions made in this silly debate are.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

By piling on and attempting to talk down the voice of reason (person saying ownerspeak is worthless) you are clearly in the pro-hype camp.

Yes, I'm assuming that one of two things are true... (1) this is nothing more than a meaningless vote of confidence in his coach's latest acquisition and/or (2) Kraft, like most of the other owners, is generally clueless when it comes to field personnel, but that seems a much safer assumption than that Kraft is actually echoing what BB told him. And I'm basing this on the fact that I've never once in my life heard a useful blurb from an owner. So I ask you, when was the last time you heard something useful from an owner? Now you tell me how reasonable the two assumptions made in this silly debate are.

Another assumption.  I don't own Cooks.  I have no dog in this fight.   I agree with you that listening to Kraft's owner-speak words is likely useless.  But I'm making a bunch of assumptions when I lean on that view.  Which is ok.  

Rather than criticizing "the use of assumptions" you could have just pointed out how ridiculous the assumptions were. (Which you did now......after I called you on it)

Edit to add:  I wasn't "piling on."  But I apologize for creating that perception.  (And for what I typed here before editing)

 

[FF Ninja]

Another assumption.  I don't own Cooks.  I have no dog in this fight.   I agree with you that listening to Kraft's owner-speak words is likely useless.  But I'm making a bunch of assumptions when I lean on that view.  Which is ok.  

Rather than criticizing "the use of assumptions" you could have just pointed out how ridiculous the assumptions were. (Which you did now......after I called you on it)

I pointed out how ridiculous they were earlier, too. 

I didn't say you owned Cooks. I said you were arguing with the only rational take on this silly debate. So whether you were a witting participant or not, by arguing against the one guy advising against reading into a useless blurb, you are by default pouring gas on the hype fire. No assumptions there.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I pointed out how ridiculous they were earlier, too. 

I didn't say you owned Cooks. I said you were arguing with the only rational take on this silly debate. So whether you were a witting participant or not, by arguing against the one guy advising against reading into a useless blurb, you are by default pouring gas on the hype fire. No assumptions there.

You said I was in the pro-hype camp.  I'm not.  Period.  

1.  I agreed with your take on Cooks

2.  I'm not pouring gas on the hype fire, regardless of how you perceive it.

3.  You refuse to be even remotely self-reflective.

4.  Again, apologies if my words came across as piling on.   

The debate that isnt being had here, which affects Cooks but maybe belongs in another thread, is whether or not Edelman will continue to see the same volume of targets as in the past.  The last 2 seasons when Gronk has been healthy (a rare occurrence, admittedly), Edelman hasn't been a target hog.  I'll look up the stats and post later (on a train now), but last offseason when I debated acquiring Edelman my recollection is that his usage was much  lower with Gronk healthy.

Why are we assuming Edelman keeps getting a boatload of targets?

(note:  even if Edelman's usage drops, I'm still not sure Cooks gets those targets either......)

 

[FF Ninja]

You said I was in the pro-hype camp.  I'm not.  Period.  

1.  I agreed with your take on Cooks

2.  I'm not pouring gas on the hype fire, regardless of how you perceive it.

3.  You refuse to be even remotely self-reflective.

4.  Again, apologies if my words came across as piling on.   

The debate that isnt being had here, which affects Cooks but maybe belongs in another thread, is whether or not Edelman will continue to see the same volume of targets as in the past.  The last 2 seasons when Gronk has been healthy (a rare occurrence, admittedly), Edelman hasn't been a target hog.  I'll look up the stats and post later (on a train now), but last offseason when I debated acquiring Edelman my recollection is that his usage was much  lower with Gronk healthy.

Why are we assuming Edelman keeps getting a boatload of targets?

(note:  even if Edelman's usage drops, I'm still not sure Cooks gets those targets either......)

This did not sound like you were agreeing: "Glad that you aren't interested in assumptions.  There are certainly no assumptions embedded in your viewpoint."

What would you like me to reflect upon? It didn't escape me that I was assuming Kraft was much like the other owners. I was aiming for reasonable assumptions vs. leaps of faith assumptions.

As for Edelman, it does belong here since it impacts Cooks. It looks like Gronk only played a full slate of snaps in 5 games last year (weeks 5, 6, 7, 8, 10). Edelman had 44 targets in those 5 games. He averaged almost 2 targets per game more in the other 11 games. So yeah, Gronk hurts Edelman's targets. When Gronk is healthy, he's the best player on the field so he'll hurt anyone's targets. Edelman has steady hands and fits Brady's game well. I still think he'll get at least 8 targets a game with Cooks in town and a healthy Gronk. This relates to my next point*, but I think Cooks helps Edelman in that he'll no longer face the other team's CB1. I'm guessing (or assuming ) teams will be more willing to give up underneath passes to Edelman than large chunks to Cooks. I'm not specifically targeting Edelman this year, but I certainly won't let him escape cheaply in my PPR auction leagues.

*The narrative (not by you, going off on a tangent here) that I find most fun is that "Hogan caught deep passes, so Cooks can do it, too." But Hogan played 832 offensive snaps and received targets on less than 7% of those snaps. Hogan was an afterthought for defenses. Cooks isn't sneaking up on anyone and will probably be game planned against. A quick youtube search for 2016 Hogan highlights will yield some nice combinations of busted coverage or poor single coverage.

 

[abbottjamesr]

You said I was in the pro-hype camp.  I'm not.  Period.  

1.  I agreed with your take on Cooks

2.  I'm not pouring gas on the hype fire, regardless of how you perceive it.

3.  You refuse to be even remotely self-reflective.

4.  Again, apologies if my words came across as piling on.   

The debate that isnt being had here, which affects Cooks but maybe belongs in another thread, is whether or not Edelman will continue to see the same volume of targets as in the past.  The last 2 seasons when Gronk has been healthy (a rare occurrence, admittedly), Edelman hasn't been a target hog.  I'll look up the stats and post later (on a train now), but last offseason when I debated acquiring Edelman my recollection is that his usage was much  lower with Gronk healthy.

Why are we assuming Edelman keeps getting a boatload of targets?

(note:  even if Edelman's usage drops, I'm still not sure Cooks gets those targets either......)

I looked it up and Edelman averages about 9 targets per game over the last three years when Gronk plays.  That's 150+ over 16 games which seems right.  I don't see Edelman's targets dropping much if at all from that.  He and Cooks are not competing for the same spot. 

I think that people are assuming Cooks' TD share stays the same as in NO and it is skewing his draft position to high.  When Gronk is healthy no player on the Pats has scored more than 7 TD's in a season (2014 and 2015) and in 2015 it was Edelman.  I wouldn't be surprised if Cooks got 120 targets this season, but I think its wrong to project more than 6-7 TDs which caps his upside to WR2 in my opinion.  I have him ranked around WR24 on my chart.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I pointed out how ridiculous they were earlier, too. 

I didn't say you owned Cooks. I said you were arguing with the only rational take on this silly debate. So whether you were a witting participant or not, by arguing against the one guy advising against reading into a useless blurb, you are by default pouring gas on the hype fire. No assumptions there.

There was only really one person who was trying to pump up Cooks based on Kraft's statement (and even he only used it to support a previous point he made) - after that the conversation progressed more towards Kraft's involvement/knowledge during the process of the Cooks acquisition. 

No sane person is going to think Cooks will put up Randy Moss in NE numbers based on a throw away statement by the team's owner. At best it speaks to the level of commitment the offense will gear towards Cooks, but even that wouldn't mean all that much in June even if the words came direct from Billy Boy's mouth.

 

[BigTex]

I looked it up and Edelman averages about 9 targets per game over the last three years when Gronk plays.  That's 150+ over 16 games which seems right.  I don't see Edelman's targets dropping much if at all from that.  He and Cooks are not competing for the same spot. 

I think that people are assuming Cooks' TD share stays the same as in NO and it is skewing his draft position to high.  When Gronk is healthy no player on the Pats has scored more than 7 TD's in a season (2014 and 2015) and in 2015 it was Edelman.  I wouldn't be surprised if Cooks got 120 targets this season, but I think its wrong to project more than 6-7 TDs which caps his upside to WR2 in my opinion.  I have him ranked around WR24 on my chart.

Cooks has finished in the top 12 the last two seasons averaging 82 catches 1090 yards and 8 TDs. I think it's wrong you have him ranked #24. Please post the 23 WRs who you have ranked higher than him.

Tex

 

[abbottjamesr]

Cooks has finished in the top 12 the last two seasons averaging 82 catches 1090 yards and 8 TDs. I think it's wrong you have him ranked #24. Please post the 23 WRs who you have ranked higher than him.

Tex

Non-PPR 9.3 PPG    77-1075-6  To be fair he is tied with Landry, Crabtree, and Marshall so he could be WR21 and only .2 ppg seperate him from WR14.  I guess the point is why pay Cooks ADP when I can get the same production much later with more upside.   With regard to his last two seasons, NO threw 120 more passes last year and 40 more in 2015 than NE.  Cooks was also the second and first receiving options on NO and will likely be the third option in NE.

Brown
Nelson
OBJ
J Jones
Green
Evans
Hilton
M Thomas
A Cooper
D Baldwin
D Thomas
D Bryant
K Allen
T Pryor
D Hopkins
Robinson
D Adams
A Jeffery
M Jones
T Williams
J Landry
M Crabtree
B Marshall
B Cooks

 

[BigTex]

Non-PPR 9.3 PPG    77-1075-6  To be fair he is tied with Landry, Crabtree, and Marshall so he could be WR21 and only .2 ppg seperate him from WR14.  I guess the point is why pay Cooks ADP when I can get the same production much later with more upside.   With regard to his last two seasons, NO threw 120 more passes last year and 40 more in 2015 than NE.  Cooks was also the second and first receiving options on NO and will likely be the third option in NE.

Brown
Nelson
OBJ
J Jones
Green
Evans
Hilton
M Thomas
A Cooper
D Baldwin
D Thomas
D Bryant
K Allen
T Pryor
D Hopkins
Robinson
D Adams
A Jeffery
M Jones
T Williams
J Landry
M Crabtree
B Marshall
B Cooks

There's no way I'd take many of those guys before Cooks I think you're reaching very hard on your ranking.

Cooks ADP is around the 11th to 12th WR of the board 24th overall which puts him round 2 of startup drafts. According to your ranking you would put him at the end of round 4 to beginning of round 5 which means you have at least 50 players ranked higher than Cooks. Lol, even if you hate Cooks and can't stand NE that's a hard pill to swallow.

I'll take the over 1,200 yds 10 TDs.

Good luck though.

Tex

 

[abbottjamesr]

There's no way I'd take many of those guys before Cooks I think you're reaching very hard on your ranking.

Cooks ADP is around the 11th to 12th WR of the board which puts him round 2 of startup drafts. According to your ranking you would put him at the end of round 4 to beginning of round 5. Lol, even if you hate Cooks and can't stand NE that's a hard pill to swallow.

I'll take the over 1,200 yds 10 TDs.

Good luck though.

Tex

Maybe we are looking at different types of leagues.  In redraft Non-PPR the early 4th round sounds about right.  

I don't think your projection for yards is unreasonable, but 10 TDs would be unprecedented for some one not named Gronk.  Since 2010 no player has scored more than 9 receiving TDs on the Pats other than Gronk.  The one player who scored 9 was Welker and he was in the Edelman role.  

It is probably going to take an injury to Gronk and/or Edelman for Cooks to break 7 TDs.  I don't want my 2nd or 3rd round pick to need injuries to be a value.  

BTW I don't hate NE or Cooks.  He is just one of those guys that I probably wont own this year as the price is too high.

Good luck to you too.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

It is probably going to take an injury to Gronk and/or Edelman for Cooks to break 7 TDs.  I don't want my 2nd or 3rd round pick to need injuries to be a value.  

Edelman and Gronk have never played 16 games together, nd in all but one season of them playing together one of them has missed at least half the season or longer.

 

[abbottjamesr]

Edelman and Gronk have never played 16 games together, nd in all but one season of them playing together one of them has missed at least half the season or longer.

They have played 9, 9, 14 games together over the last three seasons.  I don't want to wait to see upside till week 10 or later.

 

[Anarchy99]

They have played 9, 9, 14 games together over the last three seasons.  I don't want to wait to see upside till week 10 or later.

NE didn't blow a first round pick in trade and make Cooks their highest paid receiver (at least for next year) to be an after thought. I have given my perspective on this situation throughout this thread, so I am not going to rehash everything all over again. IMO, people are looking at things the wrong way. Don't look to add Cooks as a piece to what they already have. People should be looking at cooks as someone at the top of the food chain, not someone added to be on the bottom of the food chain.

Look at Moss and Welker as examples. They came in to NE and became cornerstones of the offense. I suspect that is what will happen with Cooks. Cooks was not just an add-on like Lloyd, Hogan, or LaFell. I expect Cooks to be a fixture on offense, not just a piece, a role player, or someone way down the line in terms of QB reads or targets.

 

[abbottjamesr]

NE didn't blow a first round pick in trade and make Cooks their highest paid receiver (at least for next year) to be an after thought. I have given my perspective on this situation throughout this thread, so I am not going to rehash everything all over again. IMO, people are looking at things the wrong way. Don't look to add Cooks as a piece to what they already have. People should be looking at cooks as someone at the top of the food chain, not someone added to be on the bottom of the food chain.

Look at Moss and Welker as examples. They came in to NE and became cornerstones of the offense. I suspect that is what will happen with Cooks. Cooks was not just an add-on like Lloyd, Hogan, or LaFell. I expect Cooks to be a fixture on offense, not just a piece, a role player, or someone way down the line in terms of QB reads or targets.

I have read most of your analysis from this summer and I agreed with almost all of it.  You were saying exactly what I have been saying, that you shouldn't expect Cooks to take over the roles played by Edelman and Gronk (see your posts on page 36 of this thread).  You were projecting 80ish receptions and I have 77 above, and for him to have added value one or both of JE and RG would need miss time.

If I put my self in NE shoes and look at my roster after 2016 I would see a weakness at WR and want to address it.  They have virtually nothing after JE.  They don't have a good track record of drafting WR's, but have done well in acquiring talent from others (see R. Moss and B Lafell).  Why not trade their late first for a known quantity that has played well at the pro level?  Its certainly less risky than taking a second round WR prospect in the draft.  They have an aging QB and need to keep winning now.  They don't have time to develop a WR.  The move make perfect sense and doesn't indicate that Cooks will be the #1 or that they are going to change their system to work around him.

 

[Bayhawks]

I read your post a few times but honestly don't understand your point. What do any of those players have to do with Cooks? And what's the significance of linking them to Kraft?

They have about as much to do with Cooks as Moss does; which is the fact that they play(ed) WR in the NFL & have been traded for, or signed in FA, by NE.

YOU tied Kraft to Belicheck (their opinions, at least) as some kind of support for the other posters "Kraft thinks Cooks is best WR since Moss, so that means something."  But if Krafts opinion is BB's opinion, as you posted, it was also   Krafts opinion to draft Dobson, sign Ochocinco, & sign Lloyd.  BB, and by extension (according to you), Kraft don't have a perfect track record with WRs.

 

[Tau837]

If I put my self in NE shoes and look at my roster after 2016 I would see a weakness at WR and want to address it.  They have virtually nothing after JE.  They don't have a good track record of drafting WR's, but have done well in acquiring talent from others (see R. Moss and B Lafell).  Why not trade their late first for a known quantity that has played well at the pro level?  Its certainly less risky than taking a second round WR prospect in the draft.  They have an aging QB and need to keep winning now.  They don't have time to develop a WR.  The move make perfect sense and doesn't indicate that Cooks will be the #1 or that they are going to change their system to work around him.

 

 

[Dope]

If he's a smart businessman, that's all he's got to do*. And from the looks of it, that's all he's doing, however, are you trying to tell me that he gets down into the nitty gritty of these decisions? I've seen nothing to indicate that he's involved in personnel decisions.

*I think it is working better than the Jerry Jones method.

This asterisk thing* is good shtick.

*Seriously, done right it could have real legs.

 

[FF Ninja]

This asterisk thing* is good shtick.

*Seriously, done right it could have real legs.

Haha, not intended as shtick. I don't know if I'm using it right, but basically I use it to make a point that I'd normally make in parentheses but that might take away from the topic at hand if mentioned in-line.

 

[Ilov80s]

I don't have a real take here yet as this entire Patriots offense is difficult to sparse out. However, my initial thought is not to over think this. We have a high scoring offense and a young WR that elite athleticism, great college production, young breakout age and two years of strong NFL production. For redraft and dynasty, Cooks seems like a winner. 

 

[LBH]

It's hard to predict the production of Cooks for obvious reasons. New team means learning a new system and getting on the same page as Brady. The amount of established targets already in place further clouds the picture. The investment the patriots made in him and his undeniable talent make me believe he will be a good fantasy player this year. I agree with others who have said he may not be very consistent week to week but should have some blow up games. I think he will end up being a top 15 WR. 

 

[TripItUp]

There are other receivers at Cooks' ADP that I'd rather have.

 

[barackdhouse]

I can't figure out what to think of this guy now that he is in NE. I think the preponderance of evidence says that he will be valuable in FF, probably as a high end to midrange WR2. Probably a true boom and bust guy with a good but not great floor. 

However, looking at this from a different perspective, maybe this is going to be one of the fantasy stories of the year. One of the ones where the community at large didn't see something that was about to happen. There are always a handful of those every year. Instead of thinking about Cooks (for a quick moment), think about this NE offense. Is anyone going to be able to stop them? Can they average 40 a game? Can Brady throw 50 tds? Do they have a tendency to put the hammer down? Were they nearly unstoppable before Cooks came to town? Will their new backfield be perhaps the best they've had? I mean I kind of have to think they are going to crush it. Like usual but maybe just something like 2007. I really don't think it's crazy to peg Brady for 50 tds. Obviously the under is likely the winner. Conventional wisdom says under. Same with whether NE offense goes nuclear. But if it does, and we know it can, why couldn't Cooks explode as a high end WR1? Would 15 tds be so many? If Brady throws 50? 

Well that all implies sustained health for the whole offense. Very unlikely. But if Cooks stays healthy and others don't, that would help his targets, no? 

Anyway I know the odds are against it, but I do see the very real possibility Brady goes nuclear. I know also that it could be Gronk that goes closer to Randy Moss 2007 levels than Cooks, but I feel like I should try and buy "low" if possible.  

 

[Ilov80s]

There are other receivers at Cooks' ADP that I'd rather have.

Such as? I am often picking in a spot where Cooks is a player I am considering, but like everyone here I am hesitant. 

 

[DropKick]

Opinions are all over the board on Cooks.  Even though most players going to NE is considered ideal, Cooks came from a high powered offense so the move is lateral; possibly even backward.  Try to use the past to predict the future?  Moss and Welker blossomed;  Numerous rookies and veterans (notably Chad Johnson) failed.  Of course, Cooks is not over the hill or unproven.   Frightened by the unpredictable game plan?  Gronk is oft injured.  Can Edelman sustain almost 10 targets a game?  Few receivers put up numbers week in and week out.  I'd much rather see him in NE than some other situations with spotty QB play. 

Cooks is young, has the physical tools and in a top offense. I think success or failure will ultimately depend on Cooks' head.  Can he learn and thrive in that offense?  Can he be on the same page with Brady?  If so, look out.  If not, I think I missed the opportunity to sell him high.

 

[need2know]

I think when gronk gets his annual injury he is a strong wr1.  With edleman and gronk playing he's still a borderline wr1 but more of a wr2.  He's gonna have some huge weeks no matter what.  If you can somehow get him as your second wr you will be happy. Someone will draft him too high in redraft

 

[Milkman]

Still high on him. He has 21 TD's in basically 2.5 years. 

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Signing Hogan....and Hogan's success....demonstrate the value placed on acquiring long ball talent.  Unlike Ocho Cinqo and other "lets get this guy" experiments, Cooks doesn't need to learn the route tree to be successful.  He's not Moss, but I see production from Cooks more similar to Moss output than to Hogan output.

55 / 900 / 8 expectation 40 / 600 / 5 floor 65 / 1100 / 10 ceiling.

 

[DawnBTVS]

I think a lot of people are riding the Cook hype train looking at New England as virtually a 3 man offense, which is a dangerous way to view it.

• Rob Gronkowski, when healthy, is obviously Brady's top playmaker and impacts everything they do.
  
• Julian Edelman is Brady's go to, aka Troy Brown/Deion Branch, and will get at least 80 catches if healthy throughout the year.
  
• Chris Hogan and Malcolm Mitchell will get their slices of the pie. Hogan probably won't match last year's totals but I do see him potentially having close to the same YPR due to the sheer amount of weapons. Mitchell earned Brady's trust as a rookie, very hard to do, and should see his numbers go up some though. Danny Amendola is the odd man looking out in the WR picture but is a capable return man and will provide depth if any injuries hit. I know McDaniels has liked Amendola since his time as OC in St. Louis in 2011 so I expect Amendola to be around his usual 200-250 yards by the end of the year.
  
• Dwayne Allen is a very sneaky, under the radar acquisition and will also allow for 2 TE flexibility. He may not quite be Martellus Bennett but he'll have some down the field impact.
  
• The RB group is more athletic and has several legit receiving weapons between James White, Dion Lewis (if he sticks on the roster), and newly acquired Rex Burkhead who can also split out as a receiver.
  

If everything breaks right, I can see Cooks having an impact on the lower end of the Randy Moss scale but that requires injuries which would only allow defenses to further focus on shutting him down.

I don't think Cooks is gonna disappoint to the tune of like a 48-627-4 line or anything but I see his ceiling being around a 75-1065-8 type line.

 

[Anarchy99]

I still say Edelman-Gronk-Cooks split 350 targets. Hogan and Mitchell split 100 targets. RB's split 100 targets. Amendola becomes an afterthought. Scraps for the roll players (and I include Allen in that). NE almost never has a year where everyone stays healthy, so we can reconfigure once people start getting hurt. I still see Cooks in the 85-1200-8 range.

 

[TripItUp]

Such as? I am often picking in a spot where Cooks is a player I am considering, but like everyone here I am hesitant. 

I am more down on Cooks than most.

WRs at or below his ADP I'd rather have include the following:

Adams

Hopkins

Pryor

Watkins

and in PPR I'd consider Tate, Diggs and Snead over him as well.

needless to say Cooks won't be on many of my squads.

 

[Anarchy99]

Wait . . . Did I just see Watkins mentioned? Seriously? He's less risky than Cooks? Oft injured playing on a run first team with Taylor? Get out of town.