Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
under/over on catches. 30.
He didn't miss that many college games: played in 13, 13 and 14. He missed his whole junior year after re-injuring his meniscus. That knee has continually given him problems. Maybe the last surgery finally fixed it? Maybe not. Also, it makes perfect sense that his production seemed low. Washington moved him to CB in 2014. He learned a new position. So as a sophomore at age 19 he played CB, had 400 yards and 7 TDs from scrimmage, had 2 kick return TDs and led the NCAA in kick return yards. Now fully moved to offense, he loses a year with a knee injury. Comes back as a senior with 1200 and 9 from scrimmage and another KR TD.BoltBacker said:Well of course his health was a concerns coming out of college were real, I coulda told ya that when I was in the womb I tell ya! He had more than 500 yards in a season once in his time at the University of Washington. But if you dig deep, and ya I mean deep, into the beta max tapes of his junior high stuff(when he was healthy of course) you'll see gold! Pure gold, Jerry!
I absolutely agree.Last year we saw the hurt version of Ross, but still think we could see healthy big play John Ross in the NFL at some point.
(snip)Houshmandzadeh, an 11-year NFL vet who spent the bulk of his career in Cincinnati. Specifically, Houshmandzadeh wants to iron out Ross' route-running while improving his footwork. "You get to this level, everybody can run," he said. "Your technique and ability to separate has to come to the forefront because you can’t beat everybody with speed."
Because his 2nd year of college he spent partially playing DB but he showed playmaking ability. A 19 year old scoring 7 TDs in the Pac 12 is an impressive season. He lost his 3rd year to injury and then had a big 4th year. When he was given the opportunities, he played very well.I absolutely agree.
Last year we saw the hurt version of Ross. But in his entire college career at the U. of Washington we only saw him play well as a WR one year.
Outside of Michael Thomas, it's also speculative to say any WR taken from 2015-18 will have a more productive career than Torrey Smith.Either way, any notion that he's much more talented and will have a much more productive career that Torrey Smith seems entirely speculative to me, even if someone uses and the asterisk "if healthy" to ignore his health problems in the past. This is what Mayock said before the draft, "There are some teams that have pushed him either down their boards or off their boards because of injuries. He's had surgery on his shoulder, he's had surgery on both knees, and he's got a small frame. So the durability is a big issue with him right now." I believe this was written while Ross was unable to stay healthy through the pre-draft process after the only truly healthy season in college football. While I don't subscribe to the idea that all small guys are going to get injured in the NFL I will say that if you are a small guy that can't stay healthy in college football I have a hard time believing you're body will hold up better being battered by bigger, faster, and better players in the NFL.
Yeah, I know he played 13 games in 2013(16 catches for 201 yards) and 13 games in 2014(17 catches for 371 yards) but I'm not sure if playing in games is the same thing as staying healthy. For instance I've read that he tore the meniscus in his right knee in the 3rd game of the season in 2014. On one hand that goes toward explaining the anemic production that year, but it's still a guy getting injured. I certainly wouldn't call that a healthy year. He has been quoted as saying the injury to his right knee in 2014 contributed to tearing the ACL and meniscus in his left knee in 2015 because he didn't fully trust his right knee.Also, Ross has had those injuries but you are wrong saying 2016 was his only healthy year of football. He played in 13 games in 2013 and 2014.
A) His 2013 season he was an 18 year old true freshman. Even getting on the field at that point is an accomplishment few WRs do.Yeah, I know he played 13 games in 2013(16 catches for 201 yards) and 13 games in 2014(17 catches for 371 yards) but I'm not sure if playing in games is the same thing as staying healthy. For instance I've read that he tore the meniscus in his right knee in the 3rd game of the season in 2014. On one hand that goes toward explaining the anemic production that year, but it's still a guy getting injured. I certainly wouldn't call that a healthy year. He has been quoted as saying the injury to his right knee in 2014 contributed to tearing the ACL and meniscus in his left knee in 2015 because he didn't fully trust his right knee.
By my count Ross had one healthy and productive year as a WR at the University of Washington. We can disagree if you don't see it the same way. And if you really want to split hairs after that 2016 season he had labrum surgery so was that season even REALLY healthy season?
Just as a recap:
2017 a few healthy scratches were the highlight of his season
2016 had a great year, but had to have labrum surgery after the season
2015 blew out his left knee, missed the entire year
2014 had a significant injury to his right knee that required surgery after the season but played through the pain for 17 catches/371 yards
2013 appears to have been healthy, 16 catches/201 yards
The last time Ross was truly healthy for a football season was back when Peyton Manning was passing for 5000+ yards. That seems like awhile ago to me. I'm not rooting against the guy but it's certainly worth noting that the reason most people even know about him is because of his 40 yard dash at the combine breaking Chris Johnson's record. And even then...... he pulled a calf muscle.
OK, so maybe it's speculative to say any WR taken from 2015-2018 will have a more productive career than Torrey Smith(other than Michael Thomas). But I would say that Ross is much less likely to do it than guys like Amari Cooper, Stefan Diggs, and Sterling Sheppard. There's speculative and then there's SPECULATIVE.
And I get he played some DB in college, I guess I just don't put nearly as much weight in his interception returns for TD's in college as an indicator that he'll have success as a WR in the NFL. Yeah, I do focus mostly on his catches and yards and receiving TD's.I get there are all those injuries and it’s good reason to be skeptical of Ross but don’t try to bag on his play on college. How many players have recorded a KR TD, rushing TD, receiving TD and interception in the same year?
I am not saying him playing DB means he will make a good receiver. I am justifying why his reception totals were low. He wasn't getting a lot of receptions that year because he spent the off season converting to CB and played a lot at CB during the year. Also, I do think kick return skills are a plus for a player. It just helps show an extra level of athleticism.And I get he played some DB in college, I guess I just don't put nearly as much weight in his interception returns for TD's in college as an indicator that he'll have success as a WR in the NFL. Yeah, I do focus mostly on his catches and yards and receiving TD's.
Some good insight here. While the injurys are alarming, I at least know the kid has the fire- he concealed an injury so he could get on the field last year. Maybe not the best move but at least I know he wants to be there. He’s working to get better. There’s at least a little hope. I’ll write off an unfortunate rookie year, and I’ll be tentatively excited if he gets through the summer healthy and can build some rapport with dalton/the team.I am not saying him playing DB means he will make a good receiver. I am justifying why his reception totals were low. He wasn't getting a lot of receptions that year because he spent the off season converting to CB and played a lot at CB during the year. Also, I do think kick return skills are a plus for a player. It just helps show an extra level of athleticism.
What is more impressive is what he was doing for his age. If we are going to say 600 yards and 6 TDs from scrimmage by age 19 is a negative for Ross, then what do we make of a player like Ridley that by the age of 20 had 0 yards? Ridley never touched the college field before the age of 20. Michael Thomas had 3 receptions by the time he was 20. My reason for liking what Ross can do is that he was able to go from 18 years old, right out of high school and compete with 20-21-22 year olds in a power football conference. That is a really positive sign because in football years, the difference between 18 and 20 is massive.
At this point I'd be happy if he was half of Reek.Well, he’s fully healthy now and participating in offseason training so let’s see what this kid can do in the NFL in 2018. I do have skin in the game with him in my Dyno league and hoping he can become what I envisioned. I think he can be better than tyreek hill.
I've heard Tyler Boyd is pushing for Lafell's starting spot, and Lafell maybe is on the bubble. Might be something to also watch.I'm an unabashed optimist about all things Bengals, so take this with a major grain of salt...John Ross is generating a lot of buzz. The Bengals liked him enough to take him 9th overall and it sounds like he's basically meeting those type of lofty expectations so far at camp. He's finally healthy, has his confidence back, and even put on 5 or 10 pounds of muscle.
Obviously still a lot of obstacles to making any real fantasy impact. AJ Green, Tyler Eifert, and the running backs are going to get a lot of targets. Tyler Boyd is going to get some in the slot. There might not be enough volume for Ross to be anything better than a fantasy WR5 or so. But he is still going off the board in best ball drafts in the WR7 or WR8 range, so he's a nice value right now. And very much worth keeping an eye on in the preseason because there's still a chance he ends up being a very good player.
Oh yeah? I have been taking him super late in every Best Ball. I really liked him at college as well- no reason he can't be a Desean Jackson if he is healthy.I've heard Tyler Boyd is pushing for Lafell's starting spot, and Lafell maybe is on the bubble. Might be something to also watch.
Been hearing great things about Ross. Liked him coming out of college.
Considering his stat line was 0 targets, 0 receptions, 0 receiving yards, 1 carry, 12 yards, 1 fumble lost and 0 TDs....I would agree there is nowhere but up. I'd say if he never even touches the ball this year, it would be an improvement from last season.Run It Up said:So for a dude who had an unavoidable fumble on his only touch, Ross seems to get an outrageous amount of hate.
I'm buying low atm, dude has nowhere to go but up.
Pretty much him and Boyd make up the relevant WRs now after AJ Green. Ross almost assured a starting spot as the #2 WR on the outside. Boyd in the slot. I will reiterate my thoughts from a few posts above: he has will fuller/tyreek hill (year 1) type upside this year, and sky is the limit in subsequent seasons.And just like that Lafell is gone.
I don't think both of those bolded statements can be correctLike Dan Hindery, I am also an "unabashed optimist on all things Bengals" but I gotta pump the brakes a little when it comes to evaluating fantasy potential.
The Bengals are not going to transform into a fantasy points juggernaut overnight and probably never under our current head coach. I am not slamming Marvin Lewis, but merely pointing out that in his gut he is still a ball control/defensive focused coach. It bothers him if Andy Dalton puts the ball in the air 40 times in a game... EVEN IF the result was a win.
The Bengals will have a lot of fantasy relevant players this year. Green Is a perennial contender for fantasy WR1 status and Mixon could surge to RB1 status. Don't forget Gio Bernard though... there is no reason to suspect he will lose any of his 105 rushes or 60 targets, and lots of reason to think both will increase. Behind the same line as Mixon last year he had a much better YPC, and no that was not all the product of garbage time or 3rd & long hand offs. Then you have the possibility of a healthy Eifert and his role as TD magnet, and a 2d round WR entering that magic 3rd year in Tyler Boyd, plus rookie Auden Tate has been making wow catches the routine in camp and Josh Malone has gotten good press as well.
Bottom line, though, is that there are just not enough fantasy points in the Bengals offense to support more than 3-4 legitimate fantasy starters. Assuming Green & Mixon fill two of those slots, you are left with Bernard's ability to at least maintains his RB27 finish in PPR last year, and a healthy Eifert's ability to finish as a top 8 TE (and even if he is not healthy, Tyler Kroft was still able to be the TE14 last year despite limited playing the first few weeks). Even if Ross is locked in as the #2 wr, his ceiling has to be that of Marvin Jones' performance in 2015. (65/816/4) Like Jones, that ceiling is not just a single season phenomenon. Someone ahead of him at the chow line has to lose their slot for him to move up, so that puts a damper on long term/dynasty value.
A true Bengals homer, I took John Ross at pick 1.8 last year, but then when I looked at all the relevant factors, I decided to move him after week 2. In the best and luckiest trade I have ever made in fantasy, I traded Ross plus my 2019 1st (late) for Alvin Kamara (the player picked at 1.7 who I had really wanted. Maybe I am still trying to justify my decision to give up a Bengal, but I think that as long as AJ, Andy & Marvin Lewis are in Cincy, for the next few years Ross' ceiling is capped at about WR24.
Now, off topic, the fantasy player that is being ignored despite all the great news out of Bengal camp is Andy Dalton. I have seen him ranked as low as QB24 in redraft. Wow. Just Wow. There is no safer QB2 available, and this year the stars are in line (revamped O-line, 14 one oclock games, surrounded by talent) for him to party likes its 2015 again when he was QB5 for fantasy.
I still don't think it's there yet. I got him a month ago and it only cost me Eifert and a few bottom roster guys like Patterson.Wondering where this puts his dynasty stock. He was a late first in leagues last year, i can't imagine his price has gone up from there. But is he back to that level? Early second?
Forgive me, but I was not counting the QB position (Dalton) in my list of 3-4 for discussion of targets/points available.I don't think both of those bolded statements can be correct
I think if Dalton has a 2015 year then the volume is certainly there for another option in the passing game.Forgive me, but I was not counting the QB position (Dalton) in my list of 3-4 for discussion of targets/points available.
In 2015 you had Green, Gio, and Eifert as fantasy starters plus Jones if you start 3 wr.
This year, if Dalton has a 2015 year, it will be Green and Mixon to start then Gio, Eifert/kroft for the third position and the 4th will max out with Jones type #s as I said.
Wondering where this puts his dynasty stock. He was a late first in leagues last year, i can't imagine his price has gone up from there. But is he back to that level? Early second?
Yeah I guess that answers that question. I don't know what kind of receiver you can get with a late second that has higher upside.Tried to trade him for 2.1 in a 14 teamer and got declined. he offered a late 2nd, and I'd rather keep him in that case.
correct me if I'm wrong, but 2017 didnt produce any top rookie wrs, but what is a realistic expectation for rookies these days? 2017 RBs spoiled us- going to be a lot of disappointed people in 2018. crazy to see the trends and how fickle fantasy folks can beYeah I guess that answers that question. I don't know what kind of receiver you can get with a late second that has higher upside.
Bengals WR John Ross opened the team's scrimmage as the No. 2 receiver on Saturday.
In their first "mock game" since releasing Brandon LaFell, the Bengals lined up Ross on the opposite sideline of A.J. Green. Tyler Boyd opened as the team's starting slot receiver. The No. 9 overall pick just last year, Ross will undoubtedly have all the opportunity in the world to flourish as long as he remains healthy. Josh Malone is also a player worth monitoring for Cincinnati if either Ross or Boyd fail to contribute early.
Related: Bengals
Source: James Rapien on Twitter
Aug 4 - 1:28 PM
ESPN's Katherine Terrell reports John Ross has had a "good" training camp.
Ross has been running as the No. 2 receiver. He had a disappointing preseason opener, corralling just 1-of-5 targets for 20 yards. His next chance comes against the Cowboys on Saturday night. Ross has blamed his awful rookie season on being unhealthy from the get go. He has said his body is finally right for 2018. Although it's only his second year, it's looking like a make-or-break campaign for the oft-injured speedster.
Source: Katherine Terrell on Twitter
Aug 16 - 1:35 PM
John Ross caught 2-of-4 targets for 66 yards and one touchdown in the Bengals’ third preseason game against the Bills.
Ross smoked Vontae Davis for a 57-yard touchdown on the Bengals’ first pass of the game. The pass was well underthrown by Andy Dalton, and Ross had to stop and wait for it. However, he was able to beat a couple of tackle attempts to dance into the end zone. The big play will certainly put Ross on fantasy radars late in drafts. We want to see more before overreacting, but Ross has obvious big-play ability that made him a 2017 first-rounder. There are worse late-round fliers.
Aug 26 - 6:45 PM
I know that Indy looks like a juicy matchup but I don't think I can start him week 1 even with my limited options at WR (my main two WR's are Sanders and Baldwin)He is a tempting start for Week 1 going against Indy. I can only start 3 WRs and also have Julio Jones, Josh Gordon, Marquise Goodwin and Kenny Stills. Going to be tough pulling the trigger on him but I feel like he probably goes off against a crappy defense and becomes the Week 1 waiver wire darling in leagues where he went undrafted.
That was sexy AFLast round of my redraft league and $1 in auction league.
Bumping so people see his 57 yard TD in todays game where he clowned the entire defense