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WR Josh Gordon, KC (2 Viewers)

smbkrypt24 said:
I am an owner (lover) not a hater, but when i watched his 55 yarder he did look hobbled.  This is concerning to me as he has had hamstring issues for awhile now this year.
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Hobbled or not he flattened Eddie Jackson on his way to a 55 yard gain on a crossing route. The TD would have been nicer, but it was still nice.

 
Chaka said:
Awfully quiet in here I would have thought his performance would generate at least a little discussion.

I see it as another step forward. Anyone have a different opinion?
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Transition time for JG thread.

Similar to the Mark Ingram thread a few seasons back... there's that period when player opinion moves from "he stinks, he stinks" to "he starts, he starts"

Haters can't hate and JG optimists are holding their breath that the time has arrived.

 
Dizzy said:
Transition time for JG thread.

Similar to the Mark Ingram thread a few seasons back... there's that period when player opinion moves from "he stinks, he stinks" to "he starts, he starts"

Haters can't hate and JG optimists are holding their breath that the time has arrived.
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I haven't read this thread, so I don't know what hating has gone on, but that seems a poor analogy to me.

There was a time when Ingram's adjustment to the NFL was in question. He didn't seem able to make the leap. The talent was not obvious.

With Gordon the talent IS obvious. Always has been. Surely noone questions that. What I think folks are waiting for is for that talent to be delivered on the field consistently and not obscured by outside factors.

 
Truebluey said:
I haven't read this thread, so I don't know what hating has gone on, but that seems a poor analogy to me.

There was a time when Ingram's adjustment to the NFL was in question. He didn't seem able to make the leap. The talent was not obvious.

With Gordon the talent IS obvious. Always has been. Surely noone questions that. What I think folks are waiting for is for that talent to be delivered on the field consistently and not obscured by outside factors.
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People forget how freaky an athlete he is.  Some people have never seen him play consistently.  i think it is a great place for him to land.  It is going to be fun watching Brady throw to him. 

 
Chaka said:
Awfully quiet in here I would have thought his performance would generate at least a little discussion.

I see it as another step forward. Anyone have a different opinion?
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Hairy Snowman said:
The haters are hiding.  They liked when they could take shots at him.  Now that he is starting to post 100 yard games - silence. 
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Started him this week over Burton and it cost me two wins.  I broke the first rule of owning Josh Gordon, don't take him off your bench.  Same issue this week is staring me in the face...Richard/Thompson/Sutton/Burton/Gordon.

 
BassNBrew said:
Started him this week over Burton and it cost me two wins.  I broke the first rule of owning Josh Gordon, don't take him off your bench.  Same issue this week is staring me in the face...Richard/Thompson/Sutton/Burton/Gordon.
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Well it's sad and all that you lost your game solely and exclusively because of Josh Gordon but, seeing what we are seeing develop here are you really not going to start him because of it?

Pretty much every week some scrub is going to outperform a highly regarded player. Are you going to start an all scrub team?

 
BassNBrew said:
Started him this week over Burton and it cost me two wins.  I broke the first rule of owning Josh Gordon, don't take him off your bench.  Same issue this week is staring me in the face...Richard/Thompson/Sutton/Burton/Gordon.
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:lol:

 
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Chaka said:
Well it's sad and all that you lost your game solely and exclusively because of Josh Gordon but, seeing what we are seeing develop here are you really not going to start him because of it?

Pretty much every week some scrub is going to outperform a highly regarded player. Are you going to start an all scrub team?
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It's early in the week and only MT's rankings...

16. Richard

31. Boyd

74. Burton

84. Thompson

85. Gordon

108 Sutton

Seems like the scrub may be Gordon.

I have to pick two from this group.  I would love for him to be a no-brainer must start, however experts are saying that's not the case.  Maybe Dodds will give Gordon some more love than MT did.

 
BassNBrew said:
Started him this week over Burton and it cost me two wins.  I broke the first rule of owning Josh Gordon, don't take him off your bench.  Same issue this week is staring me in the face...Richard/Thompson/Sutton/Burton/Gordon.
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Yeah, because Burton has gone off for 30+ points before.... 

Generally, I would take 4 catches for 100 yards.  I would prefer the TD.  

Sorry you made the call.  Seemed like a good one to me considering the Pats are usually good against TEs.

 
Hairy Snowman said:
Yeah, because Burton has gone off for 30+ points before.... 

Generally, I would take 4 catches for 100 yards.  I would prefer the TD.  

Sorry you made the call.  Seemed like a good one to me considering the Pats are usually good against TEs.
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I realize I'm cherry picking on Burton.

Really my point is that some people have Gordon as a must/auto start and at least one expert has him as a wdis candidate at best.

 
BassNBrew said:
I realize I'm cherry picking on Burton.

Really my point is that some people have Gordon as a must/auto start and at least one expert has him as a wdis candidate at best.
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He played on 95% of the offensive snaps last week.  He averages 25 yards a catch.  He has averaged 8 targets a game the past 2 games.  He has Tom Brady as his QB.  He keeps getting better every week.   

I can understand the excitement because we have a chance to see him reach his potential.  The ceiling appears relatively astronomical. 

If he starts to string 100 yard games together, then I may join the auto start people. 

Look at the upcoming schedule (sans week 17) - @BUF, GB, @TEN, BYE, @NYJ, MIN, @MIA, @PIT, BUF.

I am probably playing him in the bolded games.  Maybe even the tougher matchups.  Can you understand, just looking at it rationally.  

He has evolved into a majority good play with a high ceiling. 

ETA: The only reservation on the Buffalo games it that they may be huge blowouts which is a bad script.  But who is going to run the ball for the Pats right now?  I think short passes ARE the Pats running game for a while...

 
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BassNBrew said:
I realize I'm cherry picking on Burton.

Really my point is that some people have Gordon as a must/auto start and at least one expert has him as a wdis candidate at best.
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My advice would be... do what you want, 'cause you'll do it anyway.

I don't know Burton... is he one of these FF "experts"?

 
Bazinga! said:
He put up low end ppr wr2 numbers.  Some of you are a bit too excited all things considered.  He is still a major knucklehead risk and low end wr2 numbers isn't much reward for the risk you all are taking.  Trade him now.  There are more cool aid drinkers out there now than there has been in years.  Trade him, get your value and move on from the risk.

Oh ya, lol at the people saying the haters are hiding.  From what?  14  ppr points from your high risk low reward wr that you have wasted a roster spot on for years? lol.  I acknowledge he has the talent to improve his numbers, but we haven't seen wr1 results for a very very long time.   Some of you are hoping his numbers improve while risking that his value goes to zero after his next knucklehead move.  Bad decision and has been for years.

but ya, I'm just a hater ?
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There's not a lot of risk.  He's a WR3.  If you're starting him, it's over guys like Demaryius Thomas or Alshon Jeffery, not OBJ or Hopkins.

 
davearm said:
There's not a lot of risk.  He's a WR3.  If you're starting him, it's over guys like Demaryius Thomas or Alshon Jeffery, not OBJ or Hopkins.
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Trudat.  For me the risk to acquire him in my dyno was I traded Alex Collins for him immediately after he was traded to the pats.  Collins is a split time back with fumbling issues, little to no involvement in the pass game  and a head coach who likes his backup rb better.  

Gordon’s upside as he held with Brady is monstrous.  Week 7 was just a taste.  

I sat guys like dede Westbrook, Keelan Cole, Josh Doctson, to play Gordon.  Where is the risk?

 
Ya we should all trade a potential WR1 in his athletic prime who hasn't failed a drug test in years for a late first so we can draft next year's Rashad Penny or DJ Moore. No thanks, I'll keep the bird in the hand. In addition, the point of fantasy football for most of us is to have fun and it's been really fun these past years holding him in dyno watching 2014 highlights and waiting for his time to come around again. That $300 Josh Gordon will win me this year is just a bonus. 

 
Bazinga! said:
He put up low end ppr wr2 numbers.  Some of you are a bit too excited all things considered.  He is still a major knucklehead risk and low end wr2 numbers isn't much reward for the risk you all are taking.  Trade him now.  There are more cool aid drinkers out there now than there has been in years.  Trade him, get your value and move on from the risk.

Oh ya, lol at the people saying the haters are hiding.  From what?  14  ppr points from your high risk low reward wr that you have wasted a roster spot on for years? lol.  I acknowledge he has the talent to improve his numbers, but we haven't seen wr1 results for a very very long time.   Some of you are hoping watching his numbers improve while risking that his value goes to zero after his next knucklehead move.  Bad decision and has been for years.

but ya, I'm just a hater ?
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Bazinga! said:
He put up low end ppr wr2 numbers.  Some of you are a bit too excited all things considered.  He is still a major knucklehead risk and low end wr2 numbers isn't much reward for the risk you all are taking.  Trade him now.  There are more cool aid drinkers out there now than there has been in years.  Trade him, get your value and move on from the risk.

Oh ya, lol at the people saying the haters are hiding.  From what?  14  ppr points from your high risk low reward wr that you have wasted a roster spot on for years? lol.  I acknowledge he has the talent to improve his numbers, but we haven't seen wr1 results for a very very long time.   Some of you are hoping his numbers improve while risking that his value goes to zero after his next knucklehead move.  Bad decision and has been for years.

but ya, I'm just a hater ?
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It must be getting harder and harder to come up with this shtick. Do you at least believe it before you start typing?

 
Sebowski said:
What does anything have to do with anything in this thread? 
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I know it's been a long time, a really, really, really looooooooooooooong time so we're all a little rusty but we actually have real honest-to-goodness football to talk about as it relates to Josh Gordon. It's crazy I know but we have an opportunity here and I think we should embrace it while it lasts.

"While it lasts", incidentally, is perhaps the last bastion of anti-Gordon rhetoric guys like @Bazinga! have left...at the moment.

So let's talk some football!!!

 
Chaka said:
I know it's been a long time, a really, really, really looooooooooooooong time so we're all a little rusty but we actually have real honest-to-goodness football to talk about as it relates to Josh Gordon. It's crazy I know but we have an opportunity here and I think we should embrace it while it lasts.

"While it lasts", incidentally, is perhaps the last bastion of anti-Gordon rhetoric guys like @Bazinga! have left...at the moment.

So let's talk some football!!!
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It’s funny I could deal with all the non sense in this thread when he wasn’t playing cuz that’s all there was to talk about.  Now he’s playing and all this nonsense in insufferable 

 
Chaka said:
I know it's been a long time, a really, really, really looooooooooooooong time so we're all a little rusty but we actually have real honest-to-goodness football to talk about as it relates to Josh Gordon. It's crazy I know but we have an opportunity here and I think we should embrace it while it lasts.

"While it lasts", incidentally, is perhaps the last bastion of anti-Gordon rhetoric guys like @Bazinga! have left...at the moment.

So let's talk some football!!!
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Why have Edelman, Hogan, and White out produced Gordon over the last 2 games (and Gronk in the game he played)?  Can we expect him to move up from 5th in the pecking order?

OK...I know you won't like that question so I'll give you one you will like.

How much does Michel's injury increase Gordon's value?

 
BassNBrew said:
Why have Edelman, Hogan, and White out produced Gordon over the last 2 games (and Gronk in the game he played)?  Can we expect him to move up from 5th in the pecking order?

OK...I know you won't like that question so I'll give you one you will like.

How much does Michel's injury increase Gordon's value?
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Oof. Hogan hasn't. Edelman got two TDs, good on him, but has the same number of catches for 50 fewer yards. Good for Gronk being Gronk. The fact that Gordon is matching/exceeding all of these vested Brady favorites after only five weeks is also something to consider.

And White? Really? Is he related to Burton? Talk about White in the Michel thread.

Look, no one is saying Gordon is going to be the clear #1 WR for New England, or in fantasy in general. I have stated repeatedly that with New England nothing is that cut and dried. 

But in five weeks Gordon has done nothing but look better every week and his PT, opps and production reflect that. Is it really hard to admit that he is looking better every week.

 
Chaka said:
Oof. Hogan hasn't. Edelman got two TDs, good on him, but has the same number of catches for 50 fewer yards. Good for Gronk being Gronk. The fact that Gordon is matching/exceeding all of these vested Brady favorites after only five weeks is also something to consider.

And White? Really? Is he related to Burton? Talk about White in the Michel thread.

Look, no one is saying Gordon is going to be the clear #1 WR for New England, or in fantasy in general. I have stated repeatedly that with New England nothing is that cut and dried. 

But in five weeks Gordon has done nothing but look better every week and his PT, opps and production reflect that. Is it really hard to admit that he is looking better every week.
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No, this whole thing is a mess, actually. Go with New England and mouths to feed if you need floor. Go with JG if you need ceiling or drafted him. This is his best situation, football-wise. Adjust fantasy expectations accordingly, which would seem to trend up. Brady and Belichick are on his side right now. That's pretty compelling evidence and a fallacy, too, actually, but that's what you've got. Love the expectations and root for losing to statistics but winning the game, son.  

 
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BassNBrew said:
Why have Edelman, Hogan, and White out produced Gordon over the last 2 games (and Gronk in the game he played)?  Can we expect him to move up from 5th in the pecking order?

OK...I know you won't like that question so I'll give you one you will like.

How much does Michel's injury increase Gordon's value?
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I don't think anybody expected Gordon to overtake Gronk in pecking order......but Gordon has more targets and yardage than both Edelman and Hogan over the past two weeks and more fantasy points than Hogan over the past two weeks.  Playing time is not even close between Gordon and Hogan over past two weeks.  I think it's reasonable to state he already is ahead of Hogan in pecking order.  Edelman will always get the dink/dunk stats in the NE offense, but rarely will blow up fantasy wise.

Michel's injury is hard to say as I don't watch a lot of NE football.  In one aspect, James White will probably keep the linebackers busy shadowing White and open up the middle.  I would imagine that favors Edeleman.  Not sure how play/action with Michel v. White will help against the safeties, which is what benefits Gordon.

 
chad in Indy said:
I don't think anybody expected Gordon to overtake Gronk in pecking order......but Gordon has more targets and yardage than both Edelman and Hogan over the past two weeks and more fantasy points than Hogan over the past two weeks.  Playing time is not even close between Gordon and Hogan over past two weeks.  I think it's reasonable to state he already is ahead of Hogan in pecking order.  Edelman will always get the dink/dunk stats in the NE offense, but rarely will blow up fantasy wise.

Michel's injury is hard to say as I don't watch a lot of NE football.  In one aspect, James White will probably keep the linebackers busy shadowing White and open up the middle.  I would imagine that favors Edeleman.  Not sure how play/action with Michel v. White will help against the safeties, which is what benefits Gordon.
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I think Michel's injury is a positive for him.  A less effective run game may send some more targets his direction.

 
BassNBrew said:
I think Michel's injury is a positive for him.  A less effective run game may send some more targets his direction.
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I love that notion but it also looks like it will mean more dump offs to White/Edelman.

I hope they eventually work Gordon into the short crossing route passing game but I am bearish on that actually happening. I think that will limit Gordon's target ceiling most weeks so we have to hope for high efficiency on 5-7 targets/week (on average). Which seems entirely plausible.

 
Gordon's hamstring is what concerns me most. It really did look like he pulled up around the 7 yard line on that big gainer last week.

 
Chaka said:
Gordon's hamstring is what concerns me most. It really did look like he pulled up around the 7 yard line on that big gainer last week.
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Here is film on the catches.  It didn't look that way to me.  On the 55 yard play, it looked like he ran over the first guy and then just got caught around the 5.  I think he ran out of gas a little bit, but I did not think he pulled up lame at all.  At least that is my opinion.  Film is below. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyQUOdoXDC8

ETA - watched it several times over.  At the 15 yard line, he may have pulled up with something on his right side.  It is very hard to tell.  He may also have just been gassed.  He was definitely trying to use his body to push a little extra out.  

 
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Chaka said:
Gordon's hamstring is what concerns me most. It really did look like he pulled up around the 7 yard line on that big gainer last week.
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Just want to add - if you watch the video he jumps right up after the pass and celebrates.  Not sure that is the case if he pulled something.

 
I had my whole NEP family (I'm a Jets fan) chanting JG10 on his way to the end zone last week and he got brought down. We all laughed in a family moment. It was nice to transcend hate and root for a transcendent talent for once, but he got brought down. I'm not making that story up. 

JG10!

Link NSFW (Thursday's Ian Curtis)

 
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He'll be healthy soon enough. Old JG definitely takes that to the house, and new JG will too. 

Week by week I'm more and more impressed. Fantasy wise not great that he isn't the centerpiece, but he will be. It's coming. BB knkws he doesn't have to force it. Easily unbeaten since he arrived

 
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