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WR Josh Gordon, KC (7 Viewers)

JuniorNB said:
Back when Gordon was good, he succeeded with guys like Brian Hoyer and Brandon Weeden. He used to be a special talent. Drugs, alcohol, and time away obviously made his skills erode. He now needs a good quarterback to keep from getting 2-19-0 games. In 2013, there was no needs for lousy QB excuses. 
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Lol his skills eroded? What made you come to that conclusion? I'd bet at 27 next July he's as skilled as ever. He could also fail a test and be done but skills eroded because of time away and drugs is quite a stretch.

 
Well since Soulfly has tucked his tail and left (and rightfully so), the real Wr. Whisper is stepping in this week and I'm guarandangteeing 100 and a TD this week.  You have the green light to start him with confidence.

 
JuniorNB said:
Back when Gordon was good, he succeeded with guys like Brian Hoyer and Brandon Weeden. He used to be a special talent. Drugs, alcohol, and time away obviously made his skills erode. He now needs a good quarterback to keep from getting 2-19-0 games. In 2013, there was no needs for lousy QB excuses. 
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Okay before I get into all that how about answering my questions.

And the short rebuttal is Brian Hoyer is an order of magnitude  superior to Deshone Kizer.

 
JuniorNB said:
Well, from personal bad scores from my WR3 in the last month, they are not.
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That seems like a narrow metric, but in My League by that standard he was wide receiver number 21 going into last week. I'm surprised that he was that far off in your league to not even be a wide receiver number 36.

 
Chaka said:
That seems like a narrow metric, but in My League by that standard he was wide receiver number 21 going into last week. I'm surprised that he was that far off in your league to not even be a wide receiver number 36.
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Stop it with the "going in to last week". Makes you look foolish. You aren't even fully qualifying it. "Going in to last week" he had like 20pts. That would make him WR117 for weeks 1-15. 

 
Chaka said:
That seems like a narrow metric, but in My League by that standard he was wide receiver number 21 going into last week. I'm surprised that he was that far off in your league to not even be a wide receiver number 36.
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Ended up tied for WR40 with Adam Humpheires in the 3 week playoff stretch.  7 guys on the wire finished in front of him over that time.  If you look at the last two weeks he's WR61, basically tied with Seth Roberts and Michael Campanaro who no one rostered the entire year.

Between this playoff stretch and the one three years ago, we should probably be saying no one has the downside of Josh Gordon.

 
Bazinga! said:
I never typed one word directed at him??????
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True, those words were typed at me. But so were many others and those are the ones that I'll focus on.

Dynasty is a crazy animal, there are a ton of variables that factor into trying to give any sort of an analysis and likely my analysis will not relate to your Dynasty League. 

Roster limits, number of starters at each position, number of keepers, scoring system, is it PPR, is it super Flex, are contracts limited to a certain number of years or do you own the player as long as you keep them on your roster, when do you hold your Dynasty draft Etc. All of that will change the valuation.

When evaluating a guy like Gordon I'll be honest I don't consider his risk for drug suspension even one bit. As I said it's a binary thing it either will happen or it won't happen and I'm not going to speculate on the odds so I choose to not even consider them when evaluating him. Obviously he Bears risk how much no one knows so your feelings and mine are obviously different and therefore the value we place on him reflect that.

I think there'll be a major house cleaning in Cleveland this offseason. Where they decide to go at head coach is an enormous Factor if they pick up a guy like Josh McDaniels I put a much higher value on Gordon then, say if they pick up a guy like John Fox, who will be available. What is almost certain is that new head coach will have a much more talented quarterback to work with than Deshone Kizer. 

With all those variables what I can tell you is that your valuation of 1.10 is easily defensible. However I also wouldn't fault anyone if they went as high as 1.3 because we're still talking about a wide receiver who, in his limited time back still looks like the biggest fastest and strongest guy on the field and he's only 26 years old. He could be a steal at 1.3

 
BassNBrew said:
Ended up tied for WR40 with Adam Humpheires in the 3 week playoff stretch.  7 guys on the wire finished in front of him over that time.  If you look at the last two weeks he's WR61, basically tied with Seth Roberts and Michael Campanaro who no one rostered the entire year.

Between this playoff stretch and the one three years ago, we should probably be saying no one has the downside of Josh Gordon.
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Yup. All true, probably shouldn't have started him. You may want to consider a head coaching change this off season.

 
JuniorNB said:
Check out Deandre Hopkins' numbers with crap QBs like Tom Savage and TJ Yates.  Great receivers create space and can also win 50/50 balls. Gordon was once great. He flashed big-time in 2013.  He was average in 2014 and average again(or maybe below average) this year. Years of alcohol and drugs can effect you physically. He got worse every game. I don't think Kizer did. 
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Gordon has had 35 targets, 14 catches and only one drop.  If Kizer is playing good, how do you account for the other 20 UNCATCHABLE passes??  Kizer wasn't playing good without Gordon.  Why do you think he would suddenly start playing good with Gordon?  I watched 2 of the four Browns games with Gordon and I did not see him struggle to get separation or have any issues with press coverage.  I don't think Gordon was given the shots at 50/50 balls evidenced by the fact that he only had one drop.  I'll be interested to see how he does with a full off-season with the team.  And yes, Hoyer and Weeden were miles ahead of where Kizer is this year.  Kizer seems completely overwhelmed right now.  Jury is out on whether that changes.

 
Would not touch this guy now with a ten foot pole. He has a history of off-field issues and he is going to have a massive amount of free time? HELLO? You cannot trade for this guy unless it's in-season. This is your warning. 

There is like a 90% chance he is suspended by 2018. Mark my words. 

 
Bazinga! said:
1st bolded.  The moderator said "Both of you please keep it to topic and not each other." I never personally attacked you.  I kept it on topic.  I just used your words,with a few changes, to argue my side of the debate.

2nd bolded.  I didn't value him at 1.10, I said between 1.6 and 1.7.  

So based on your answer in a 12 team typical ppr league say 18-22 roster spots, would your trade him if you were offered the 1.5?
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Good question, when is this hypothetical draft? If it's the day after the Browns season ends I probably make that trade because of all the uncertainty around the team (and a long off season of temptation for Gordon). If it's the day after the NFL draft and the Browns have a new #1 pick QB and a new coaching staff that I like and there has been Zero news about Gordon (no news is good news), then I probably don't dish him for the 1.5.

But, as I said, there are so many variables.

 
 Top 5  I'm assuming or delegating this statement to Dynasty value  I would figure first off one may be inclined to believe Antonio Brown ranks higher? Big Ben and all the miraculous playmaking chemistry is near finished The OLine itself could become something less than ideal w but a few pitfalls such as trade(s) and Season-long injury(s) How bad would Team morale be affected by Harrison if he is not asked to drop in coverage but dominate the pass rush. Id mention Julio and tackle depth but Playoffs start soon Other WR's should be expected to sign the best of contracts Assuming Flash is grown Man w strong passion for the game Please list your WR's in Dynasty ranks 1-5

Its almost a shame the way we mistreated Soul :2cents:

 
Soulfly3 said:
In his record setting season, Gordon averaged 18.9YPR.

This season, he averaged 18.6YPR

Food for thought.
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I think you are chewing your food wrong, because he did not average 18.6 yards per reception this season. 

Soulfly3 said:
Defense looks pretty darn good for the future.

And the #1 and #4 picks in the draft.

And Dorsey.

I'm positive right now.
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The Browns will find a way to mess those picks up. If those top QBs are smart, they will publicly say they will not sign with the Browns. 

 
lol, that's what I get for trusting a site that updated his game long, but not his season overall numbers. 

Gordon, if he can stay off the weed, should keep putting up garbage meaningless numbers on the biggest joke in pro sports. 

 
BassNBrew said:
Well since Soulfly has tucked his tail and left (and rightfully so), the real Wr. Whisper is stepping in this week and I'm guarandangteeing 100 and a TD this week.  You have the green light to start him with confidence.
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Well I did my best...and a heck of a lot better than Soulfly.

 
Soulfly3 said:
I bet my house he'd return this season. 

Roof over my head. I win :)  
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No, we all won and got a got an acceptable performance when you disappeared for a week.  Do us a favor and disappear all off season and Gordon might stay clean this summer.

 
What are the Vegas Odds that this guy stays clean this off-season? Like 1000 to 1? I'll take the same bet even at those odds. Stay away people, just stay away. 

 
I'd take the risk on him 10/10. Talent has always been there; he just needed to hit rock bottom to find his purpose and drive. So long as he's in the league, I think he stays clean and on track. 

 
Soulfly3 said:
read thru the thread.

yes. there are literally dozens of people who seemingly would high five if he died of an overdose.
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I don't think people are rooting for it...unfortunately he has historically let people down. It is on him to prove he has changed and being on the field next year will be a big step to earning the public's trust back. I hope he maximizes his potential because he is no doubt a special talent.

 
King of the Jungle said:
I don't think people are rooting for it...unfortunately he has historically let people down. It is on him to prove he has changed and being on the field next year will be a big step to earning the public's trust back. I hope he maximizes his potential because he is no doubt a special talent.
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If he's special, what's R. Higgins???  Uber elite?

 
BassNBrew said:
If he's special, what's R. Higgins???  Uber elite?
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I am simply talking about the guy who lead the league in receiving at one point, walked on the field without having played in forever and flashed that same potential, and has all the physical attributes that most would define as special. None of those previous descriptions relate to Higgins.

 
King of the Jungle said:
I am simply talking about the guy who lead the league in receiving at one point, walked on the field without having played in forever and flashed that same potential, and has all the physical attributes that most would define as special. None of those previous descriptions relate to Higgins.
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I hear you.  I dominated my league this year that gives pts per upside and for flashes of potential.  

 
BassNBrew said:
If he's special, what's R. Higgins???  Uber elite?
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I don't know. Get back to me when R. Higgins* leads the league in... anything at any point in his career.

*The "R" stands for Rashard btw. Just mentioning it because it kind of seems like you don't know.

 
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