I'll take R. Higgins over Calvin Johnson. He's the guy who led the other conference in receiving yards last time J. Gordon was relevant for more than a quarter.
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WR Josh Gordon, KC (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
- Start date
pinequick
Footballguy
Not sure what all the hate is about (at least about "being relevant"). In my league, Gordon scored 39 points in 5 games played. Projected to 15 games played, that would have been good enough to be WR23 in my league (1 pt per 10 yds rush/receiving, no PPR)... with probably the worst QB situation in the NFL.
I don't own Gordon, nor really plan to. But you would be an idiot to NOT take a late-round flier if he's available on a guy with that kind of potential. It's a swing-for-the-fences late round pick that can help win you your league. If he flames out, cut him--no harm, no foul. Now if you're planning your 4th-round draft pick around a guy who is this unreliable in his personal life, then you probably need your head examined.
This thread just sounds like it's full of a bunch of butt-hurt folks who have burned early-round picks on this guy in the past. And I would probably be gun-shy, too. But to doubt this guy's talent by comparing him to nobodies is sort of, well... dumb.
I don't own Gordon, nor really plan to. But you would be an idiot to NOT take a late-round flier if he's available on a guy with that kind of potential. It's a swing-for-the-fences late round pick that can help win you your league. If he flames out, cut him--no harm, no foul. Now if you're planning your 4th-round draft pick around a guy who is this unreliable in his personal life, then you probably need your head examined.
This thread just sounds like it's full of a bunch of butt-hurt folks who have burned early-round picks on this guy in the past. And I would probably be gun-shy, too. But to doubt this guy's talent by comparing him to nobodies is sort of, well... dumb.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Yeah but going in to last week he only had 20 points in 4 games which projects to WR 69 over a full season.
pinequick
Footballguy
"Yeah, but take away that 80-yard TD run..." Isn't that always the argument folks use when they want to downgrade somebody? His season is his season--he played 5 games, not 4, not 6.
ETA: Your post may have been in inside joke in this thread--apologies if I missed it. I didn't read the whole thing.
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Sebowski
Footballguy
Yeah just a joke. Shaka spent like 3 pages casually ignoring week 16 by saying going in to last week yadayadayada....
I've owned Gordon in my lone dynasty league since his rookie draft (ugh). I'm a fan. Just trying to keep everyone on the level in here. Cheers.
Chaka
Footballguy
I ignored nothing and I'm pretty sure you know that. The same way we both know @BassNBrew isn't serious about Rashad Higgins.
Week 16 hurt, we all saw it. And there was also a defensible argument to start him for that game because of how he played in the three previous games. As I said above, I am pretty sure you get that.
I presume you made decisions in week 4 of this season based at least somewhat on what happened in week 1-3 and not just what happened in 2016. If not, for example, how long would you have left Todd Gurley on your bench before having enough data to put him in your lineup every week? After all, he was terrible in 2016.
Bottom line is (in my league) Gordon finished as WR#26 over the five games he played. Sorry he didn't play 16 and we cannot judge a larger body of work. But what we do know is he played no football for three seasons and had Kizer as his QB. How many other guys come in after that, and into that, and perform the same or better? What he did was borderline amazing.
Sebowski
Footballguy
He leads the league in most games with multiple TDs from Kizer.
Thanks, I didn't know his first name. The last few weeks of scanning the WR leaders for Gordon has introduced me to a lot of names I didn't know.
If that's your baseline the answer is zero because no one else has been suspended that many times.
If you allow for some leeway and make allowances for guys who got a similar opportunity out of no where over the last few weeks then Damiere Byrd, Josh Bellamy, and Jakeem Grant would also bee borderline amazing.
hoffman0001
Footballguy
Did they find him asleep at an intersection in a car with clouds of smoke coming out yet? Well it's only been 4 days since the season ended. It will happen. Fool me once, same on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me three times and there goes my dynasty roster...
I can't wait to see all the "shocked" posts when he falls off the wagon.
We need a sign 4 vacation days without an incident.....you know why they have those signs right, because eventually they have to change the number to ZERO. And when this happens, bye bye Gordon. If you have him, find a sucker. If you don't stay away.
I can't wait to see all the "shocked" posts when he falls off the wagon.
We need a sign 4 vacation days without an incident.....you know why they have those signs right, because eventually they have to change the number to ZERO. And when this happens, bye bye Gordon. If you have him, find a sucker. If you don't stay away.
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Chaka
Footballguy
I get that point, I think your comps are wrong but I get it. The reality is you're absolutely right, Gordon is a sample set of one. I imagine there are some comps with guys coming off injuries and starting the season on the PUP, or guys who hold out until the, IIRC, week 10 deadline. But nothing quite like Gordon, which is what makes him such a difficult and compelling player.
How do you evaluate a guy like that going into next season? As I mentioned earlier, the further away we are from next season the more likely I would trade him. As the season gets closer, and he hasn't been suspended again, which we're all concerned about, his value increases.
As long as he is on your roster you will worry about the off field stuff. And if he has success on par with 2013? You probably worry even more that success will get into his head and he'll #### up again. Ugh.
That's why this thread is so much fun.
Hope is expensive in this hobby. Gordon has burned people twice now with flameouts in the fantasy semis and finals. I only play re-draft so YMMV, but 95% of us would have been better avoiding Gordon this year. As you mention above, we are in uncharted territory. On paper Gordon should be a first round redraft pick. I suspect his issues will depress his draft stock into the the 30-40 range in early drafts and rising throughout the year.
Chaka
Footballguy
His last two seasons played showed us all who he really is. If Cleveland can sign Cousins or gets lucky and draft a Brady, Wentz type, or traded Gordon to a team with a top quarterback, he has the athletic ability to produce WR1 numbers. Otherwise, he's just a guy. Flex/WR3 type starter.
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Chaka
Footballguy
I am a re-draft guy too and I can't say that he burned me or benefited me. I mentioned earlier in the thread that my flex choice came down to Gordon and Mike Evans. Gordon outperformed Evans three out of five weeks, HOWEVER overall Evans had three more fantasy points over that stretch, and I chose the wrong guy in three of those five games (#coachoftheyear). Effectively it was a push for my team (YMMV).
I couldn't put a first round value on Gordon in redraft at this point. Even assuming he stays out of trouble, we all believe that prospect holds some degree of risk, and the Browns get their shiny rookie QB I am not sure I could put him as a first round pick in redraft. In my league (12 team, 16 roster spots, PPR, super-flex, start 2-4 WR/TEs) I would probably value him as a #1 WR but on average only four WRs are taken in the first round and I couldn't put that kind of value on him just yet.
Again, to me it is amazing that anyone (except @Soulfly3) even thinks of him in those terms but from what I saw in his five games it seems justified.
Plus, don't forget the upside.
I couldn't put a first round value on Gordon in redraft at this point. Even assuming he stays out of trouble, we all believe that prospect holds some degree of risk, and the Browns get their shiny rookie QB I am not sure I could put him as a first round pick in redraft. In my league (12 team, 16 roster spots, PPR, super-flex, start 2-4 WR/TEs) I would probably value him as a #1 WR but on average only four WRs are taken in the first round and I couldn't put that kind of value on him just yet.
Again, to me it is amazing that anyone (except @Soulfly3) even thinks of him in those terms but from what I saw in his five games it seems justified.
Plus, don't forget the upside.
Chaka
Footballguy
Fair point. Over his last 10 games he averaged 8.9 targets, 4.2 catches, 63.8 yards (15.19 ypc) and 0.1 TDs. That projects to 67 catches, 1,021 yards and 1.6 TDs over a 16 game season.
In my league that would yield him ~145 points making him WR #28 between Cooper Cupp (27) and Jermaine Kearse (29).
Would you consider giving him any sort of bump in projections if he gets in a full offseason of OTAs and training camp, even if Kizer remains his QB? Just asking because his per game numbers were slightly better in 2017 than 2014.
Probably a slight bit of a bump. I'm actually hoping he gets traded for picks. Would love to see him with a guy like Cousins, Garappolo or even Flacco.
Chaka
Footballguy
A trade would be nice for dynasty owners to be sure.
Even a slight bump puts him in WR#2 territory in my league, which is definitely not the rarefied air many of us are hoping for but better than a flex option.
I think a trade to the Niners may even make him sniff WR1 numbers. Problem is, with his risk/reward value, Cleveland couldn't expect to get much for him. So he's more valuable to them than he is in a trade.
hoffman0001
Footballguy
No NFL team would give more then maybe a 3rd for him tops given his off-field/suspension history. He is worth more to the Browns then that. You have to remember...those poor Browns fans are holding onto the hope that a player like Gordon can make them competitive. He is not being traded....suspended..probably..traded? Nope
pinequick
Footballguy
Any NFL executive who traded a 3rd-round pick (or a 4th) for Josh Gordon should be fired on the spot. Draft picks are valuable these days, and this guy is COMPLETELY unreliable. He is one bad test or DUI away from a lifetime ban.hoffman0001 said:No NFL team would give more then maybe a 3rd for him tops given his off-field/suspension history. He is worth more to the Browns then that. You have to remember...those poor Browns fans are holding onto the hope that a player like Gordon can make them competitive. He is not being traded....suspended..probably..traded? Nope
I agree--no way Gordon is traded. The Browns wouldn't get anything for him, and his talent makes him worth keeping around. That depresses his potential fantasy value immensely, IMO. Still probably a WR2/Flex guy that you should be able to LATE in your fantasy draft (which makes him a good value). If you can get him late, DRAFT HIM.
Yup. Pretty much echoes what I just posted. Not sure if teams have a way of making trades with stipulations for that kind of things or not. Maybe Gordon for a 2nd in 2018, but if Gordon fails a drug test before next draft, Niners get the Browns second in 2019? Something that lessens the risk for the Gordon recipient. Would love to see him with a good QB though. Probably a pipe dream.hoffman0001 said:No NFL team would give more then maybe a 3rd for him tops given his off-field/suspension history. He is worth more to the Browns then that. You have to remember...those poor Browns fans are holding onto the hope that a player like Gordon can make them competitive. He is not being traded....suspended..probably..traded? Nope
hoffman0001
Footballguy
If only you had been able to see him with Wentz or Watson?
.....poor Brown fans....maybe some day. Will I get my flying car before the Browns are viable? I'd say it's 50/50Both times he joined the team late in the year after a very long layoff. I respectfully don't agree that any player under those circumstances showed what they really are. I mean I feel pretty confident saying if you gave Antonio Brown a 3 year layoff and let him return to Kizer airmailing you errant throws that, as one example, would not be who AB really is.JuniorNB said:
Chaka
Footballguy
Okay, from now on we all take a drink whenever someone says "upside" or when @BassNBrew comments on someone saying "upside".
Did someone say upside?
The upside this week is that Gordon can’t torpedo your team this week.
Chaka
Footballguy
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
At this point if losing Gordon torpedoes your team, your team stunk to begin withChaka said:
@menobrown @Chaka
https://www75.myfantasyleague.com/2017/options?L=16507&O=07&F=0004
Couldn't resist the upside.
PLAYERYTD PTSBYE
Foles, Nick PHI QB-10
Bell, Le'Veon PIT RB-9
Burkhead, Rex NEP RB (Q)-9
Kamara, Alvin NOS RB10.305
Gordon, Josh CLE WR-9
Hogan, Chris NEP WR-9
Hurns, Allen JAC WR0.008
Lee, Marqise JAC WR0.508
Walker, Delanie TEN TE19.408
Lutz, Wil NOS PK7.005
Titans, Tennessee TEN Def4.008
https://www75.myfantasyleague.com/2017/options?L=16507&O=07&F=0004
Couldn't resist the upside.
PLAYERYTD PTSBYE
Foles, Nick PHI QB-10
Bell, Le'Veon PIT RB-9
Burkhead, Rex NEP RB (Q)-9
Kamara, Alvin NOS RB10.305
Gordon, Josh CLE WR-9
Hogan, Chris NEP WR-9
Hurns, Allen JAC WR0.008
Lee, Marqise JAC WR0.508
Walker, Delanie TEN TE19.408
Lutz, Wil NOS PK7.005
Titans, Tennessee TEN Def4.008
That was fast. Sure hope JG does a better job of resisting temptation this next 8-9 months than you.@menobrown @Chaka
https://www75.myfantasyleague.com/2017/options?L=16507&O=07&F=0004
Couldn't resist the upside.
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Chaka
Footballguy
Championship upside.@menobrown @Chaka
https://www75.myfantasyleague.com/2017/options?L=16507&O=07&F=0004
Couldn't resist the upside.
PLAYERYTD PTSBYE
Foles, Nick PHI QB-10
Bell, Le'Veon PIT RB-9
Burkhead, Rex NEP RB (Q)-9
Kamara, Alvin NOS RB10.305
Gordon, Josh CLE WR-9
Hogan, Chris NEP WR-9
Hurns, Allen JAC WR0.008
Lee, Marqise JAC WR0.508
Walker, Delanie TEN TE19.408
Lutz, Wil NOS PK7.005
Titans, Tennessee TEN Def4.008
Championship upside.@menobrown @Chaka
https://www75.myfantasyleague.com/2017/options?L=16507&O=07&F=0004
Couldn't resist the upside.
PLAYERYTD PTSBYE
Foles, Nick PHI QB-10
Bell, Le'Veon PIT RB-9
Burkhead, Rex NEP RB (Q)-9
Kamara, Alvin NOS RB10.305
Gordon, Josh CLE WR-9
Hogan, Chris NEP WR-9
Hurns, Allen JAC WR0.008
Lee, Marqise JAC WR0.508
Walker, Delanie TEN TE19.408
Lutz, Wil NOS PK7.005
Titans, Tennessee TEN Def4.008
Damn this guy is the kiss of death. Added Gordon to my playoff team roster and my first place team fell to 5th and was eliminated from the league.
Chaka
Footballguy
After careful evaluation of your roster I can say with 100% certainty that Josh Gordon is not the reason you fell from first place to fifth place.
Damn this guy is the kiss of death. Added Gordon to my playoff team roster and my first place team fell to 5th and was eliminated from the league.
8 teams. Basically the equivalent of a 32 team league during the regular season. Basically by round 4 you're deciding between Jax WR 2-4, Wright, Clement, etc.
Added Gordon as joke and then faded every player on my roster in fanduel lineups this week and hit for $150 profit.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
PFT initially posted that Gordon would be an RFA. They later changed the article and what they said.
massraider
Footballguy
He's not a RFA, he's a ERFA. That's even better for the Browns.
I wonder if it's worth it for the Browns to throw an extension offer at him. If he's unhappy with his contract, they have all the leverage, they can give him a really team-friendly deal, that puts money in his pocket now.
They have so much cap room, they cannot use it all effectively this offseason. You do a reasonable signing bonus, and have low base salaries and big per game roster bonuses. He screws up, he doesn't get paid.
I mean, if Gordon is playing good soldier now, and is fine with playing out his deal, no reason to, I guess.
But if the Browns like where he is from a stability point, why not lock him up for a bargain?
I wonder if it's worth it for the Browns to throw an extension offer at him. If he's unhappy with his contract, they have all the leverage, they can give him a really team-friendly deal, that puts money in his pocket now.
They have so much cap room, they cannot use it all effectively this offseason. You do a reasonable signing bonus, and have low base salaries and big per game roster bonuses. He screws up, he doesn't get paid.
I mean, if Gordon is playing good soldier now, and is fine with playing out his deal, no reason to, I guess.
But if the Browns like where he is from a stability point, why not lock him up for a bargain?
DallasDMac
Footballguy
foxco
Footballguy
How does he have any leverage? Just curious how this would work as from what I can tell he’s almost gone from the league for good, he’s failed about 57 drug tests and admitted to lying to everyone.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Players with much worse hanging over their heads have signed huge contracts. Someone will be willing to take the chance on signing him. Zero chance he signs a contract where he could end up with nothing.
