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WR Kevin White, NO (1 Viewer)

Xue said:
White fans continue to lie to themselves.  Most of what you posted is false.

For a 215-lb WR to run a 4.35, he should have been wide open more often against Big 12 DBs, but he wasn't.  A 185-lb Tyler Locket running a 4.40, was much better at getting deep in the same conference.  DeVante Parker with his 4.45 speed was also much better.  White's own WVU teammate Mario Alford ran a similar 40 but was much better at making plays downfield.  If Kevin White is much better at separation then why did it not show up on film?  Because he isn't better at it.

Sorry, but "excellent" is not what White's routes were.  He wasn't anywhere close to Cooper and Lockett.

White is not a "high pointer".  What he does is win contested catches. Two different things.  This is what high pointing is.

http://i.imgur.com/NAv0FkV.gif

I've never seen White do that.

What's piss poor is White fans continue to be blinded by the numbers.  He is farther from Julio than you think.
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White fans?  A lot of people had him ahead of Cooper last year.  That's not just a few White fans.  No one said he was Julio.  He had similar Measurables and a better final college season than Julio.  Doesn't mean he's Julio.  You're using subjective information to make a point while his "fans"  are using what's measurable.   That's fine that you believe that.  You could be right.  But to write it off as only "White fans lying to themselves and being blinded" by believing in the guy is incorrect.   He was going in the top 10,  regardless.   It's not just a few fans who seen him as something special. 

 
Xue said:
White fans continue to lie to themselves.  Most of what you posted is false.

For a 215-lb WR to run a 4.35, he should have been wide open more often against Big 12 DBs, but he wasn't.  A 185-lb Tyler Locket running a 4.40, was much better at getting deep in the same conference.  DeVante Parker with his 4.45 speed was also much better.  White's own WVU teammate Mario Alford ran a similar 40 but was much better at making plays downfield.  If Kevin White is much better at separation then why did it not show up on film?  Because he isn't better at it.

Sorry, but "excellent" is not what White's routes were.  He wasn't anywhere close to Cooper and Lockett.

White is not a "high pointer".  What he does is win contested catches. Two different things.  This is what high pointing is.

http://i.imgur.com/NAv0FkV.gif

I've never seen White do that.

What's piss poor is White fans continue to be blinded by the numbers.  He is farther from Julio than you think.
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I'm not a White fan.  I just call it like I see it.  I've discussed several drawbacks of White's on several different posts here.  I also never compared White to Julio.  You are stuck in a corner comparing White to Patterson, which is pretty asinine.  But keep ####### that chicken.

I see that for some reason you are caught up on 40 speed as a reflection of "gaining separation."  Are you aware that a bomb ### 40 time doesn't mean squat when it comes to gaining separation?  Take all of your Darrius Heyward-Bay Analysis and eat it.  White caught over 100 balls in college, was all of that because he won contested catches?  

It's fairly obvious you don't watch tape.  I mean, if you say you do - then really it boils down to two things: 1) You are stupid and can't translate tape for effective scouting or 2) You are a liar.  All you do is look at 40 times for your "scouting."  Good work.

Your call bud, stupid or a liar?

 
EBF said:
In 2014 White ranked 5th in the NCAA in receiving yards and tied for 6th in 25+ yard catches. White had 109 catches and 15 gains of 25+ yards. Lockett had 106 catches and 13 gains of 25+ yards. Statistically, White was more effective at generating big plays than Lockett. Parker's numbers probably would've been off the charts because he had 12 catches of 25+ on just 43 grabs, but he missed about half the season.

White may not be tremendous out of breaks, but he is quite agile from side-to-side. I think he has a much different movement style than Cordarrelle Patterson. I think he moves pretty well. He's almost too pigeon-toed/bow-legged for his own good, but it seems to work for him. I think he will be good in the NFL. You can nitpick anyone if you really want to. Nobody is perfect. Even Calvin Johnson wasn't perfect. Does White have enough good qualities to be a perennial 1,000 yard guy in the NFL? Yes, I think he has a good chance.
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It's not just resulting numbers. It's the process, White had to make contested catches downfield. Lockett was burning DBs.

I don't have an issue with Whites movement skills.  He simply wasn't the same athlete without the ball than he was with the ball.  I'm not sure how many times I have to say it.  That is the very reason he is like Patterson.  He sparingly was able to translate his athletic abilities to route running.

He can be a 1,000 yard guy, I just don't see the ceiling everyone else does.  Calvin Johnson is on his own planet in terms of talent.  A guy with his measurables wasn't destined to fail.

 
-CE- said:
I'm not a White fan.  I just call it like I see it.  I've discussed several drawbacks of White's on several different posts here.  I also never compared White to Julio.  You are stuck in a corner comparing White to Patterson, which is pretty asinine.  But keep ####### that chicken.

I see that for some reason you are caught up on 40 speed as a reflection of "gaining separation."  Are you aware that a bomb ### 40 time doesn't mean squat when it comes to gaining separation?  Take all of your Darrius Heyward-Bay Analysis and eat it.  White caught over 100 balls in college, was all of that because he won contested catches?  

It's fairly obvious you don't watch tape.  I mean, if you say you do - then really it boils down to two things: 1) You are stupid and can't translate tape for effective scouting or 2) You are a liar.  All you do is look at 40 times for your "scouting."  Good work.

Your call bud, stupid or a liar?
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LOL.  I've already stated why I compared White to Patterson.  You must not be able to read.  Because you don't even refute it in this post.  Because you can't find evidence to refute it.

What's his total receptions have to do with separation and deep plays?  I said he made deep plays by winning contested catches more than by being wide open.  He couldn't even get open against TCU CB Kevin White who ran a 4.63.  I never said he won contested catches on all of his receptions.  You're just throwing out a strawman argument.  Again, read what I actually wrote.

I watch plenty of tape especially of White.  As far as I know, I'm the only person who has pointed out that White had a better release from the left side than he did from the right side of the formation.  https://twitter.com/lifesyourcup/status/564282547555688448  You can see this vs Texas A&M. On a related note, DeVante Parker is better from the left side as well.

 
flapgreen said:
White fans?  A lot of people had him ahead of Cooper last year.  That's not just a few White fans.  No one said he was Julio.  He had similar Measurables and a better final college season than Julio.  Doesn't mean he's Julio.  You're using subjective information to make a point while his "fans"  are using what's measurable.   That's fine that you believe that.  You could be right.  But to write it off as only "White fans lying to themselves and being blinded" by believing in the guy is incorrect.   He was going in the top 10,  regardless.   It's not just a few fans who seen him as something special. 
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Tavon Austin went top 10 and seen as special as well.  So was Ted Ginn.

flapgreen said:
He's nothing like Patterson.  You lost your credibility with that comparison. 
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Until you can refute the reason I compared him to Patterson, the comparison stands.  That is if you can even remember the reason.

 
Is Loggains going to be a good enough Coordinator that this even matters?  Is he a Fox disciple?  If so couldn't this be a run first team that follows that up with more running and only features 1 WR (Jeffrey)?

As a White owner in dynasty I have a vested interest.

 
steelers1080 said:
Is Loggains going to be a good enough Coordinator that this even matters?  Is he a Fox disciple?  If so couldn't this be a run first team that follows that up with more running and only features 1 WR (Jeffrey)?

As a White owner in dynasty I have a vested interest.
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I can't see this team being a run heavy team. Langford is better as a spread/receiving back. Jeffery is a high end talent and White a mid first round pick. Cutler is a capable starting QB. I know a lot of people hate on him but he's not the worst option in the NFL right now. 

I don't think the new OC got the job because of "his" offensive scheme. Which is important because I don't think he will feel the need to shoe horn a system onto an ill fitting personnel group. 

Edit: I don't actually know much about this OC right now so my post was just speculation. I will try to read up on him and revise this post as needed.

Per Wiki:

Tennessee Titans (2008–2009)
Offensive quality control coordinator

Tennessee Titans (2010–2012)
Quarterbacks coach

Tennessee Titans (2012–2013)
Offensive coordinator

Cleveland Browns (2014)
Quarterbacks coach

Chicago Bears (2015)
Quarterbacks coach

Chicago Bears (2016–present)
Offensive coordinator

In 2013 he was an OC for the Titans. He ranked (Link) higher in rush attempts then he did in pass attempts. Mike Munchak was the HC and I'm guessing was the primary play caller and/or in charge of the offensive scheme and setup. Loggains is a former QB and has worked a lot as a QB coach. I don't know if that means anything but I thought I would share that info. 

 
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I agree that they definitely have more talent at WR than at RB, just dubious about Fox's ability to utilize that talent.  Never thought he was a great coach. 

 
Xue said:
LOL.  I've already stated why I compared White to Patterson.  You must not be able to read.  Because you don't even refute it in this post.  Because you can't find evidence to refute it.

What's his total receptions have to do with separation and deep plays?  I said he made deep plays by winning contested catches more than by being wide open.  He couldn't even get open against TCU CB Kevin White who ran a 4.63.  I never said he won contested catches on all of his receptions.  You're just throwing out a strawman argument.  Again, read what I actually wrote.

I watch plenty of tape especially of White.  As far as I know, I'm the only person who has pointed out that White had a better release from the left side than he did from the right side of the formation.  https://twitter.com/lifesyourcup/status/564282547555688448  You can see this vs Texas A&M. On a related note, DeVante Parker is better from the left side as well.
Click to expand...
You incorrectly stated that you compare Patterson to White because they are both poor route runners, I'm telling you that you are wrong.  White is not a poor route runner.   Patterson is, was and will always be a poor route runner.  White improved dramatically from his junior to senior season.  You also go on to state that White's only redeeming quality is that he wins 50-50 balls/contested catches.  But he had 100+ receptions in his final year in college.  Did he really just come down with all of those catches because of 50-50 balls?  (Hint: the answer is no.)

You also mention something about being better after the catch than before it.  He's got sub-4.4 wheels, threw up 23 reps on the bench press, tested great in the 3 cone - so he's fast, agile and strong.  Any game tape you watch of him seems that he draws at least 2 pass interference calls - that's him setting the defender up and being too physical for the DB to handle.  He catches with his hands.

If you want to make some point about Cooper being a better technician, that's fine, I'll give you that.  But to say White grades out to Patterson is just moronic.  One is a guy who was always a kick returner - the other is a guy that caught 109 balls in his final year in college. 

You have zero credibility on the topic.

 
-CE- said:
You incorrectly stated that you compare Patterson to White because they are both poor route runners, I'm telling you that you are wrong.  White is not a poor route runner.   Patterson is, was and will always be a poor route runner.  White improved dramatically from his junior to senior season.  You also go on to state that White's only redeeming quality is that he wins 50-50 balls/contested catches.  But he had 100+ receptions in his final year in college.  Did he really just come down with all of those catches because of 50-50 balls?  (Hint: the answer is no.)

You also mention something about being better after the catch than before it.  He's got sub-4.4 wheels, threw up 23 reps on the bench press, tested great in the 3 cone - so he's fast, agile and strong.  Any game tape you watch of him seems that he draws at least 2 pass interference calls - that's him setting the defender up and being too physical for the DB to handle.  He catches with his hands.

If you want to make some point about Cooper being a better technician, that's fine, I'll give you that.  But to say White grades out to Patterson is just moronic.  One is a guy who was always a kick returner - the other is a guy that caught 109 balls in his final year in college. 

You have zero credibility on the topic.
Click to expand...
It's funny how you don't touch on the last paragraph of my post.  Probably because it would give me credibility.  Yet here you are telling me I have no credibility simply because you disagree with me.

You still can't read because you still can't type the exact words I used to make the comparison.  And I have nothing to argue against you in this post because you didn't argue the comparison I made.  You just produced another strawman.

Never said White's only redeeming quality is contested catches.  Again you can't read.  Or you can, you just choose to ignore what I actually wrote, because you still can't refute it.

 
Xue said:
It's funny how you don't touch on the last paragraph of my post.  Probably because it would give me credibility.  Yet here you are telling me I have no credibility simply because you disagree with me.

You still can't read because you still can't type the exact words I used to make the comparison.  And I have nothing to argue against you in this post because you didn't argue the comparison I made.  You just produced another strawman.

Never said White's only redeeming quality is contested catches.  Again you can't read.  Or you can, you just choose to ignore what I actually wrote, because you still can't refute it.
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You keep using this word, but these are the actual things you have said, so no, you are not using that word correctly.

 
-CE- said:
Feel free to copy and paste to your hearts content.  

Or maybe next time just don't do ######ed things like suggest White is comparable to Patterson.
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I see that you can't do it. Because if you were to do it, your arguments would be destroyed. 

Next time actually watch tape before calling someone out to save from looking like an ###. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I know White has not played a down yet and expectations may be a little high for him but I think a comparison to Patterson is just ridiculous.  White seems to be a more complete WR.  At his current ADP I think White is an absolute steal right now.

 
Why don't both you tools go start a thread that you guys can just post hump each other in so the rest of us can stop sifting through your trash in this thread.  Thanks.

 
Here's some more fuel for the White/Patterson comparisons, since they're so much alike. 

Alabama highlights.  https://youtu.be/2v3XHYdTMoY

White caught nine passes for 143 yards and a touchdown vs. the Tide. He had seven catches for 129 yards and a touchdown during West Virginia's 45-37 loss to Texas A&M in the Liberty Bowl.

Don't forget about the guy.  He's special. With the Alshon situation not going great at the moment,  White could end up being huge.  

 
Hawkeye21 said:
I know White has not played a down yet and expectations may be a little high for him but I think a comparison to Patterson is just ridiculous.  White seems to be a more complete WR.  At his current ADP I think White is an absolute steal right now.
Click to expand...
I don't know what his current adp is right now but it's only going to go up. 

 
flapgreen said:
Here's some more fuel for the White/Patterson comparisons, since they're so much alike. 

Alabama highlights.  https://youtu.be/2v3XHYdTMoY

White caught nine passes for 143 yards and a touchdown vs. the Tide. He had seven catches for 129 yards and a touchdown during West Virginia's 45-37 loss to Texas A&M in the Liberty Bowl.

Don't forget about the guy.  He's special. With the Alshon situation not going great at the moment,  White could end up being huge.  
Click to expand...
What happened against Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas, Kansas State, and Iowa State?

 
 

ESPN Bears reporter Jeff Dickerson said Kevin White has looked "strong and fast" at OTAs.
Dickerson admitted he's only attended three OTAs—practice has been open to the media once a week—but that's all White needed to make a lasting impression. The 2015 first-round pick is making up for lost time after sitting out his rookie campaign with a stress fracture in his shin. Dickerson called the possibility of pairing White with franchise-tagged WR Alshon Jeffery "exciting" and we'd have to agree with that assessment. A healthy White could be a boon to Jay Cutler's fantasy value as well.

 
 
Source: ESPN.com 
Jun 13 - 8:27 AM


 
Per the Chicago Sun Times' Adam Jahns, Kevin White "looked like a work in progress" at OTAs and minicamp.
It's to be expected with the spring work being White's first football action since this time last year. According to Jahns, White dropped too many passes, but appeared to settle down more in minicamp when Alshon Jeffery showed up to the team. White will be one of the more fun players to track this summer and preseason after seeing no game action as last year's No. 7 overall pick. Jun 17 - 9:46 AM
 
Don't have the gumption to skim 14 pages.... but as a huge Bears fan who watched plenty of White in college.... I am beyond skeptical.  Seems like a physical freak who I wouldn't be shocked to see turn into a complete bust.  Would actually be more surprised if he actually pans out.  I honestly don't think there'll be any in-between.  Maybe I'm being a negative Nancy but I'm crossing my fingers.   I don't own the guy in any dynasty leagues and am not going out of my way to take him in any redrafts.  Will I be pumped if he's a beast?  Absolutely.  Will I be shocked if he does absolutely nothing?  Not really.

 
Good news White owners! Looks like he might not have to face top corners or double coverage until he is 27! 

Getty Images

When Bears receiver Alshon Jeffery signed his one-year, $14.6 million franchise tender, he was reportedly a near certainty to play this season on that contract. But that might not be so certain after all.

Jeffery and the Bears have continued to talk about a long-term contract, and it’s possible a deal will get done before the July 15 deadline, Jeremy Fowler of ESPN reports.

When franchise players do sign long-term deals, it usually happens right before the deadline. So in the case of Jeffery, it will probably be another three weeks before a deal gets done.

The 26-year-old Jeffery was limited by injuries to just nine games last season, but when he played he played well, catching 54 passes for 807 yards.

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
You don't think those numbers are possible? 
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I hope so...and I hope it's just the beginning ...

I just thought it was funny that the way the stats are listed "(85/1000/6) " it comes up as

a Link as a phone number and a pop-up on my screen wants to know if I want to Cancel or Call.

I think if your drafting early this year (late July, early August) you can grab him in the 7th rd...Late August the secret

will be out and he'll be going in the 5th.

 
I think those numbers are reasonable. Given the history of the #2 in Chi town and that Jeffery always seems to get hurt.

 
tangfoot said:
2013 - 16 games

2014 - 16 games
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To be fair, he said "seems".  Jeffrey had probably 6 games each season that he was listed as doubtful or questionable so you can't feel confident starting him.  And if he's that hurt, he's probably not going full strength and White could take advantage.

 
WheelsUp said:
I think those numbers are reasonable. Given the history of the #2 in Chi town and that Jeffery always seems to get hurt.
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last year the #2 wide receiver in Chicago got 28/464/1

White sure should be a huge upgrade, and the Bears did just lose Bennett.  Jeffery and Marshall made a very good combo, but I'm not overpaying for White with the expectation that he becomes Brandon Marshall (though it does seem possible).

 
85/1000/6 for the 24 year old rookie? When you are done sipping that KoolAid pass it over to the Eddie Lacy thread please. Thanks in advance.

 
I expect 65/900/7.  Could be more. 

I like his situation:

1) QB who likes to sling the ball.  White reminds me of Marshall in many ways and Cutler and Marshall had a good connection. If Cutler throws 25 TDs and 3600 yards, even if Alshon get 1200 and 10 TDs, there are still 15 TDs and 2400 yards to distribute. The Bears do not have a TE or a RB who will demand a ton of targets or TDs.  None of the other WRs are impressive.  I see him as a rock solid WR2 with a QB who likes to throw a lot and has been successful.

2. He gets separation off the line of scrimmage and runs good routes.

3. He can high point the ball and competes for the ball. While he needs to improve his catching, he has the ability to do so.

4. He is great after the catch.

5. He shows ability to go up and get the ball in the EZ.

6. He is a big target.

 
FUBAR said:
last year the #2 wide receiver in Chicago got 28/464/1

White sure should be a huge upgrade, and the Bears did just lose Bennett.  Jeffery and Marshall made a very good combo, but I'm not overpaying for White with the expectation that he becomes Brandon Marshall (though it does seem possible).
Click to expand...
dont forget all of Fortes targets as well

 
az_prof said:
I expect 65/900/7.  Could be more. 

I like his situation:

1) QB who likes to sling the ball.  White reminds me of Marshall in many ways and Cutler and Marshall had a good connection. If Cutler throws 25 TDs and 3600 yards, even if Alshon get 1200 and 10 TDs, there are still 15 TDs and 2400 yards to distribute. The Bears do not have a TE or a RB who will demand a ton of targets or TDs.  None of the other WRs are impressive.  I see him as a rock solid WR2 with a QB who likes to throw a lot and has been successful.

2. He gets separation off the line of scrimmage and runs good routes.

3. He can high point the ball and competes for the ball. While he needs to improve his catching, he has the ability to do so.

4. He is great after the catch.

5. He shows ability to go up and get the ball in the EZ.

6. He is a big target.
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if there's one person who comes to mind when asked about successful quarterbacks, it's Jay Cutler.  ;)  

 
FUBAR said:
if there's one person who comes to mind when asked about successful quarterbacks, it's Jay Cutler.  ;)  
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ha! I know he has not been successful in NFL but he is typically a productive fantasy QB--at least 8-12.  So I like White's situation with a productive fantasy QB and a team with only 1 other receiver who is clearly going to get a ton of looks.  He should be the clear #2 in terms of targets.

 
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