WR Kyle Williams, NE (1 Viewer)

[Anarchy99]

You will get no disagreements about their past history with WRs because it is a train wreck but you are now blaming the Vrabel regime for the mistakes of BB...sure Wolf is still around but right now I am giving the full benefit of doubt to Vrabel, Cowden and Stretch (all three who Wolf has said has helped him understand the process this offseason) until I see otherwise....your plan is very generic with no names but who exactly would you have realistically brought in that was available...would you have taken McMillan instead of Campbell? If so, who would you have brought in at LT? Would you have tried to overwhelm DKM with a over-the-top contract and given Seattle your #2 instead of signing Milton Williams and drafting Henderson? If Williams is a bust and Diggs ends up being damaged goods and we are in the same spot next year after FA and the draft I'll be the first to take a shot at them but for this offseason they spent a ton of $ and unfortunately WR was a very weak group in free agency and they chose to use draft capital elsewhere and while it wouldn't bother me to have taken another WR I don't have an issue at all with how they used their picks...this was not going to be a quick rebuild but overall I think they have dramatically changed the roster after a few years of inept roster construction.

There really isn't much point to hashing out the same discussions across a half dozen threads. I am not saying the current plan at WR won't work. They haven't even practiced yet. So I am not "blaming" Vrabel for anything at this point. All I said was what I probably would have preferred. Maybe they got a steal in Diggs, Williams turns into a legit WR, and one of the leftovers clicks. That would be nice. But we can't judge this combination of coaches and receivers favorably or unfavorably until they actually play.

We don't have enough info to know who was available for trade and who wasn't (ie, if players completely refused to come to NE, so be it). But I would rather they ponied up for one of the other bigger name guys that was traded than have used the 4th or 5th round pick. I don't have an exact name for you, but IMO, with more weapons THIS YEAR they could get a better read on Maye and see what pieces they could have to address this year. I think it will be harder to tell with an older player recovering from a serious injury and a rookie. Put another way, there are already multiple disappointments at WR . . . would hate to be in this spot AGAIN next year.

We won't know how the draft will turn out for years, so call me a little more skeptical over the praise and adulation they have gotten for this draft. Downstream, they might hit on 3 guys . . . maybe. That's how drafts ultimately work. No teams hit on a bevy of picks in the same draft. We can discuss that later on when we get that far.

 

[JohnnyU]

You will get no disagreements about their past history with WRs because it is a train wreck but you are now blaming the Vrabel regime for the mistakes of BB...sure Wolf is still around but right now I am giving the full benefit of doubt to Vrabel, Cowden and Stretch (all three who Wolf has said has helped him understand the process this offseason) until I see otherwise....your plan is very generic with no names but who exactly would you have realistically brought in that was available...would you have taken McMillan instead of Campbell? If so, who would you have brought in at LT? Would you have tried to overwhelm DKM with a over-the-top contract and given Seattle your #2 instead of signing Milton Williams and drafting Henderson? If Williams is a bust and Diggs ends up being damaged goods and we are in the same spot next year after FA and the draft I'll be the first to take a shot at them but for this offseason they spent a ton of $ and unfortunately WR was a very weak group in free agency and they chose to use draft capital elsewhere and while it wouldn't bother me to have taken another WR I don't have an issue at all with how they used their picks...this was not going to be a quick rebuild but overall I think they have dramatically changed the roster after a few years of inept roster construction.

There really isn't much point to hashing out the same discussions across a half dozen threads. I am not saying the current plan at WR won't work. They haven't even practiced yet. So I am not "blaming" Vrabel for anything at this point. All I said was what I probably would have preferred. Maybe they got a steal in Diggs, Williams turns into a legit WR, and one of the leftovers clicks. That would be nice. But we can't judge this combination of coaches and receivers favorably or unfavorably until they actually play.

We don't have enough info to know who was available for trade and who wasn't (ie, if players completely refused to come to NE, so be it). But I would rather they ponied up for one of the other bigger name guys that was traded than have used the 4th or 5th round pick. I don't have an exact name for you, but IMO, with more weapons THIS YEAR they could get a better read on Maye and see what pieces they could have to address this year. I think it will be harder to tell with an older player recovering from a serious injury and a rookie. Put another way, there are already multiple disappointments at WR . . . would hate to be in this spot AGAIN next year.

We won't know how the draft will turn out for years, so call me a little more skeptical over the praise and adulation they have gotten for this draft. Downstream, they might hit on 3 guys . . . maybe. That's how drafts ultimately work. No teams hit on a bevy of picks in the same draft. We can discuss that later on when we get that far.

Dallas hit on a bevy of picks in the Hershel Walker trade.

 

[Faust]

@32BeatWriters
“Kyle Williams made his presence felt during practice, and seemed especially involved running routes outside the numbers. His highlight play came on a deep out when he created significant separation and caught a pass from Maye. Later on in practice he had the same success on a similar route…”

https://x.com/32beatwriters/status/1924950609788338400?s=61

 

[ffmail4me]

I'm all aboard in my best ball leagues, love pairing him up with Maye.

 

[Faust]

Mike Reiss
Two videos that capture a big part of what OTAs are about — players fine-tuning their craft, with third-round WR Kyle Williams.

On the first, he is successfully mirrored by Ja’Lynn Polk.

On the second, he adjusts, and is praised by WRs coach Todd Downing for doing so.

https://x.com/mikereiss/status/1924898763245510748?s=61

 

[Faust]

@SavageSports_
Drake Maye and Kyle Williams already building rapport??

Per: @ByMarkDaniels

“In the Patriots’ final 11-on-11 series, Williams was on the field with Maye, again. The young quarterback didn’t shy away from throwing to the rookie. This time, Maye took a deep shot down the left sideline. Williams blew by a Patriots cornerback and caught a tough, contested catch with rookie safety Craig Woodson in tight coverage.

Williams finished the play by getting both feet in bounds near the sideline. Players applauded the rookie – and it was a moment that’ll only build more confidence for Maye.”

LFG.

https://x.com/savagesports_/status/1925575501780783330?s=61

 

[TripItUp]

We're going to see his ADP continue to rise. I like his value in best balls.

 

[Anarchy99]

We're going to see his ADP continue to rise. I like his value in best balls.

Here are how every rookie WR has done with Josh McDaniels as a HC or OC. I only am including guys that saw the field. I probably missed a couple of 7th round picks, UDFAs, or guys that landed on the practice squad and did not get called up.

Player, Year, Team, Targets, Receptions, Yardage, TD
Bam Childress, 2005, NE, 4-3-32-0
Chad Jackson, 2006, NE, 19-13-152-0
Eddie Royal, 2009, DEN, 79-37-345-0
Demaryius Thomas, 2010, DEN, 39-22-283-3
Eric Decker, 2010, DEN, 8-6-108-1
Austin Pettis, 2011, STL, 48-27-256-0
Greg Salas, 2011, STL, 38-27-264-0
Aaron Dobson, 2013, NE, 72-37-519-4
Kenbrell Thompkins, 2013, NE, 69-32-466-4
Josh Boyce, 2013, NE, 19-9-121-0
Chris Harper, 2015, NE, 3-1-6-0
Malcolm Mitchell, 2016, NE, 48-32-401-4
Riley McCaren, 2018, NE, 1-0-0-0
Jakobi Meyers, 2019, NE, 41-26-359-0
N'Keal Harry, 2019, NE, 24-12-105-2
Gunner Olszewski, 2019, NE, 4-2-34-0
Isaiah Zuber, 2020, NE, 2-2-29-0
DJ Turner, 2021, LV, 1-0-0-0
Tre Tucker, 2023, LV 34-19-331-2

That's basically 20 years worth of data. Maybe this year will be different with Williams. However, the talent evaluators that provided intel used to pick guys like Polk, Thornton, Baker, and Harry are still there. McDaniels' system is said to be extremely complex and hard for rookies to pick up. I would probably pass on Williams if his stock goes up (TBH, I will probably pass on Williams this year). FantasyPros has him with an ADP of 160 / WR 64 in best ball leagues.

I don't know if established WR do better in McDaniels' system or if he prefers guys with experience (or a little bit of both). The last we saw of McDaniels in NE, Kendrick Bourne ended the season ranked WR32 in PPR leagues in 2021. He's the only one left from when McDaniels was there before. His ADP in best ball leagues is 452 overall and WR 164. He's essentially free. Bourne was thought to be a potential roster cut at the start of free agency to make room for the new guys, save some $$$, and move on from guys from prior regimes. Yet he's still on the roster. Maybe he won't make the final roster, but the closer we get to opening day, we should know what his status and role should be. I could see Bourne putting up Meyers-like numbers (probably with fewer receptions), especially if Williams takes the path of other rookies under JMD.

The overall point being that I don't trust WIlliams to do much, and I would rather take a dart throw in the final round (or off of waivers) than have to invest a much earlier pick on Williams. This is not a knock on WIlliams . . . it's more of a breakdown illustrating underwhelming results under McDaniels. (We also don't know how well Maye will do under McDaniels, so that's a double unknown for me.)

 

[TripItUp]

Here are how every rookie WR has done with Josh McDaniels as a HC or OC. I only am including guys that saw the field. I probably missed a couple of 7th round picks, UDFAs, or guys that landed on the practice squad and did not get called up.

You made a similar call on Rhamondre his rookie year, and were dead wrong.

winning FF often entails identifying the exceptions to "the rule."

I'm not planting my flag here, but I'm certainly not ruling out a strong rookie year either.

 

[Anarchy99]

We're going to see his ADP continue to rise. I like his value in best balls.

You made a similar call on Rhamondre his rookie year, and were dead wrong.

winning FF often entails identifying the exceptions to "the rule."

I'm not planting my flag here, but I'm certainly not ruling out a strong rookie year either.

What are you talking about? My call on RS has been right every season. Rookie year: BB doesn't trust rookies, wouldn't win the starting job. Second year: take him over Harris, the value will be tremendous as Harris is often hurt and Stevenson would be a Top 10 RB with a RB 40 price tag. 2023: avoid RS, as people would be paying for his stats from the prior season and he wouldn't catch 70 balls again (and the offense was suspect) . . . RS would be drafted as a Top 10 back and would struggle to be in the Top 25. Last year: RS would be a pass for me on a bad offense, had some injuries, wouldn't go back to 70 receptions, and his performance had started slipping. Let me know where I was wrong on Rhamondre.

 

[Faust]

Evan Lazar
Highlight of the day for the #Patriots offense was Kyle Williams beating CB Miles Battle on a go ball with a nice adjustment to catch the ball over the shoulder.

Williams’s separation has flashed in the two practices media has attended.

https://x.com/ezlazar/status/1927786578501386515?s=61

 

[Faust]

First look at Drake Maye throwing deep ball to Patriots rookie WR Kyle Williams

 

[Faust]

@32BeatWriters
"WR Kyle Williams had the play of the day in Wednesday's practice, hauling in a bomb from backup QB Josh Dobbs on a go route. Williams beat the corner clean at the line of scrimmage, stacked the defender, and made a nice adjustment to catch the ball over his shoulder. Williams is a speed receiver in non-contact practices, so we'll see what it looks like in pads, but his ability to separate on the outside has flashed."

https://x.com/32beatwriters/status/1928144855202451963?s=61

 

[Faust]

Carlos A. Lopez
#Patriots rookie WR Kyle Williams will most likely be their X receiver and provide the offense much needed speed.

I have high hopes for him

( @PatriotsCLNS)

https://x.com/lostalkspats/status/1929905882139373615?s=61

 

[Faust]

Zareh Kantzabedian
On Kyle Williams

“2025 outlook: The guess here is he’ll (Williams) be the team’s No. 4 wide receiver, eventually settling into a role behind Demario Douglas, Stefon Diggs and Mack Hollins or Kayshon Boutte.”

https://x.com/zkantzff/status/1930301369199800398?s=61

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Zareh Kantzabedian
On Kyle Williams

“2025 outlook: The guess here is he’ll (Williams) be the team’s No. 4 wide receiver, eventually settling into a role behind Demario Douglas, Stefon Diggs and Mack Hollins or Kayshon Boutte.”

https://x.com/zkantzff/status/1930301369199800398?s=61

So is he the X receiver or is he the #4 WR? Those seem sort of different.

 

[Soulfly3]

#4 WR

ok.

 

[Anarchy99]

Zareh Kantzabedian
On Kyle Williams

“2025 outlook: The guess here is he’ll (Williams) be the team’s No. 4 wide receiver, eventually settling into a role behind Demario Douglas, Stefon Diggs and Mack Hollins or Kayshon Boutte.”

https://x.com/zkantzff/status/1930301369199800398?s=61

So is he the X receiver or is he the #4 WR? Those seem sort of different.

At this point it is literally impossible to tell. In OTA's, many guys haven't been participating. Reports that Williams or Chism looking good don't tell the whole story. Chism had a day where he caught every pass thrown his way . . . but that was playing with the backup offense against the backup defense (which was mostly the 3rd of 4th team defense). Williams has been reported to have made some nice catches, but that was with every guy ahead of him on the sideline (and often against their #8 CB for training camp. Playing in shorts and shells with no contact allowed, no tackling allowed, and no contact on the QB really isn't football.

#4 WR

ok.

Why is the Williams being the 4th WR so laughable. Going back as far as they tracked snap counts, here's how much rookies have played under McDaniels:

Aaron Dobson - 547 snaps
Malcolm Mitchell - 538
Jakobi Meyers - 416
Tre Turner - 334
N'Keal Harry - 220
Josh Boyd - 179

McDaniels has shown a tendency to play guys with experience over rookies or guys early in their careers. Maybe that will change with Williams, but I don't think it's a crazy notion that Williams may not be as involved as some folks expect him to be.

 

[Boston]

Zareh Kantzabedian
On Kyle Williams

“2025 outlook: The guess here is he’ll (Williams) be the team’s No. 4 wide receiver, eventually settling into a role behind Demario Douglas, Stefon Diggs and Mack Hollins or Kayshon Boutte.”

https://x.com/zkantzff/status/1930301369199800398?s=61

So is he the X receiver or is he the #4 WR? Those seem sort of different.

At this point it is literally impossible to tell. In OTA's, many guys haven't been participating. Reports that Williams or Chism looking good don't tell the whole story. Chism had a day where he caught every pass thrown his way . . . but that was playing with the backup offense against the backup defense (which was mostly the 3rd of 4th team defense). Williams has been reported to have made some nice catches, but that was with every guy ahead of him on the sideline (and often against their #8 CB for training camp. Playing in shorts and shells with no contact allowed, no tackling allowed, and no contact on the QB really isn't football.

#4 WR

ok.

Why is the Williams being the 4th WR so laughable. Going back as far as they tracked snap counts, here's how much rookies have played under McDaniels:

Aaron Dobson - 547 snaps
Malcolm Mitchell - 538
Jakobi Meyers - 416
Tre Turner - 334
N'Keal Harry - 220
Josh Boyd - 179

McDaniels has shown a tendency to play guys with experience over rookies or guys early in their careers. Maybe that will change with Williams, but I don't think it's a crazy notion that Williams may not be as involved as some folks expect him to be.

Since Polk, Baker, Boutte and Pop have not played for McDaniels (and are either going into their second or third year) I don't think the experience part matters like it may have in the past outside of Diggs and Hollins who are legit veterans.

 

[Anarchy99]

Zareh Kantzabedian
On Kyle Williams

“2025 outlook: The guess here is he’ll (Williams) be the team’s No. 4 wide receiver, eventually settling into a role behind Demario Douglas, Stefon Diggs and Mack Hollins or Kayshon Boutte.”

https://x.com/zkantzff/status/1930301369199800398?s=61

So is he the X receiver or is he the #4 WR? Those seem sort of different.

At this point it is literally impossible to tell. In OTA's, many guys haven't been participating. Reports that Williams or Chism looking good don't tell the whole story. Chism had a day where he caught every pass thrown his way . . . but that was playing with the backup offense against the backup defense (which was mostly the 3rd of 4th team defense). Williams has been reported to have made some nice catches, but that was with every guy ahead of him on the sideline (and often against their #8 CB for training camp. Playing in shorts and shells with no contact allowed, no tackling allowed, and no contact on the QB really isn't football.

#4 WR

ok.

Why is the Williams being the 4th WR so laughable. Going back as far as they tracked snap counts, here's how much rookies have played under McDaniels:

Aaron Dobson - 547 snaps
Malcolm Mitchell - 538
Jakobi Meyers - 416
Tre Turner - 334
N'Keal Harry - 220
Josh Boyd - 179

McDaniels has shown a tendency to play guys with experience over rookies or guys early in their careers. Maybe that will change with Williams, but I don't think it's a crazy notion that Williams may not be as involved as some folks expect him to be.

Since Polk, Baker, Boutte and Pop have not played for McDaniels (and are either going into their second or third year) I don't think the experience part matters outside of Diggs and Hollins who are legit veterans.

But Bourne has, and somehow no one ever mentions him. I can see them rolling out Diggs, Hollins, and Bourne a lot and also running a lot of 2 TE sets or 2 RB sets. Meaning the young guys take a back seat until they learn the system (or are off the team). They have way more WR than they can roster, and some of the young guys will not be on the main roster.

 

[Boston]

Zareh Kantzabedian
On Kyle Williams

“2025 outlook: The guess here is he’ll (Williams) be the team’s No. 4 wide receiver, eventually settling into a role behind Demario Douglas, Stefon Diggs and Mack Hollins or Kayshon Boutte.”

https://x.com/zkantzff/status/1930301369199800398?s=61

So is he the X receiver or is he the #4 WR? Those seem sort of different.

At this point it is literally impossible to tell. In OTA's, many guys haven't been participating. Reports that Williams or Chism looking good don't tell the whole story. Chism had a day where he caught every pass thrown his way . . . but that was playing with the backup offense against the backup defense (which was mostly the 3rd of 4th team defense). Williams has been reported to have made some nice catches, but that was with every guy ahead of him on the sideline (and often against their #8 CB for training camp. Playing in shorts and shells with no contact allowed, no tackling allowed, and no contact on the QB really isn't football.

#4 WR

ok.

Why is the Williams being the 4th WR so laughable. Going back as far as they tracked snap counts, here's how much rookies have played under McDaniels:

Aaron Dobson - 547 snaps
Malcolm Mitchell - 538
Jakobi Meyers - 416
Tre Turner - 334
N'Keal Harry - 220
Josh Boyd - 179

McDaniels has shown a tendency to play guys with experience over rookies or guys early in their careers. Maybe that will change with Williams, but I don't think it's a crazy notion that Williams may not be as involved as some folks expect him to be.

Since Polk, Baker, Boutte and Pop have not played for McDaniels (and are either going into their second or third year) I don't think the experience part matters outside of Diggs and Hollins who are legit veterans.

But Bourne has, and somehow no one ever mentions him. I can see them rolling out Diggs, Hollins, and Bourne a lot and also running a lot of 2 TE sets or 2 RB sets. Meaning the young guys take a back seat until they learn the system (or are off the team). They have way more WR than they can roster, and some of the young guys will not be on the main roster.

Agreed...and I do keep forgetting about him...probably because I would much rather have (more like hoping) the youngsters take a step forward then an average Bourne who I don't see lasting more than one more season with them...that being said he definitely has an advantage having played under McDaniels.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

#4 WR

ok.

helpful reply

How’s Josh Gordon doing?

 

[menobrown]

Why is the Williams being the 4th WR so laughable

It's been my expectation for him this upcoming season, at least to start the year with a chance to rise up.

 

[Anarchy99]

Here's where rookie WRs ranked in terms of # of targets under McDaniels.

Chad Jackson, 2006, NE - 5th in WR targets, 9th overall in targets
Eddie Royal, 2009, DEN - 3rd / 3rd
Demaryius Thomas, 2010, DEN - 4th / 6th
Eric Decker, 2010, DEN - 5th / 9th
Austin Pettis, 2011, STL - 4th / 6th
Greg Salas, 2011, STL - 5th / 7th
Aaron Dobson, 2013, NE - 3rd / 3rd (Gronk injured)
Kenbrell Thompkins, 2013, NE - T4th / T4th (Gronk injured)
Josh Boyce, 2013, NE - 5th / 9th (Gronk injured)
Malcolm Mitchell, 2016, NE - 3rd / 5th (Gronk injured)
Jakobi Meyers, 2019, NE - 4th / 5th (Gronk DNP)
N'Keal Harry, 2019, NE - 6th / 9th (Gronk DNP)
Tre Tucker, 2023, LV - 4th / 6th

As of now, I could see a scenario where the target ranking would be Diggs-Douglas-Bourne-Hollins-Williams then everyone else (health issues not withstanding). Maybe Williams could move up to 4th if they don't target Hollins a ton. But I can also see where Henry and at least one RB sees more targets. Hard to know what to expect until we see which WRs they keep on the roster to start the season (and if Diggs is a go Week 1).

 

[greenmountaingoat]

#ruining the hang

 

[greenmountaingoat]

He'll probably be bagging groceries in 4 months, just like all Patriots receivers since the beginning of time.

 

[Soulfly3]

We'll watch the season unfold to see why he isn't their #4 WR. I'd argue he's already their #1 w the way Diggs currently acts, but let's give him a soft #2

 

[Skipdog77]

We'll watch the season unfold to see why he isn't their #4 WR. I'd argue he's already their #1 w the way Diggs currently acts, but let's give him a soft #2

? Some soluble fiber will help firm that up.

 

[Faust]

@32BeatWriters
“The play of the day came from Kyle Williams. The wide receiver caught a 40-yard touchdown pass from Dobbs during the first 11-on-11 period. Williams blew through the Patriots secondary and split safeties Dell Pettus and Marcus Epps en route to catching the ball and running in the end zone.”

https://x.com/32beatwriters/status/1932199417697997168?s=61

 

[Soulfly3]

Ya but McDaniels has a history of not using his scrub, borderline CFL talent level rookie WRs !!!!!

He'll for sure keep Williams buried cuz the data says so

Look at that list of WRs and having the audacity to compare Kyle with them... Goodness me. He's better than of all them one-handed.

 

[Anarchy99]

@32BeatWriters
“The play of the day came from Kyle Williams. The wide receiver caught a 40-yard touchdown pass from Dobbs during the first 11-on-11 period. Williams blew through the Patriots secondary and split safeties Dell Pettus and Marcus Epps en route to catching the ball and running in the end zone.”

https://x.com/32beatwriters/status/1932199417697997168?s=61

Backup QB, playing with the two’s, against the two’s, in pads. These plays of the day blurbs don’t really tell much about what goes on in practice each day.

FWIW, Curran said tonight the starters are looking like Diggs, Douglas, and Bourne. He also said Williams will at some point get in the mix later in the season and they’ll see how that goes.

 

[Boston]

Still early but the reports on Williams have been positive so far...I fully expect him to be involved as he brings a different dynamic to the WR unit and if they can develop him it is a big plus for the future...now whether his involvement will translate to fantasy success is still very much TBD but I think you will see him early.

 

[efactor]

Still early but the reports on Williams have been positive so far...I fully expect him to be involved as he brings a different dynamic to the WR unit and if they can develop him it is a big plus for the future...now whether his involvement will translate to fantasy success is still very much TBD but I think you will see him early.

Hey, don’t come into this thread and start talking sense

The Williams will fail because recent other WRs drafted by the Patriots have failed is lame and tiresome. Williams is not Polk, Harry or Thorton.

 

[Boston]

Still early but the reports on Williams have been positive so far...I fully expect him to be involved as he brings a different dynamic to the WR unit and if they can develop him it is a big plus for the future...now whether his involvement will translate to fantasy success is still very much TBD but I think you will see him early.

Hey, don’t come into this thread and start talking sense

The Williams will fail because recent other WRs drafted by the Patriots have failed is lame and tiresome. Williams is not Polk, Harry or Thorton.

There is no doubt the curse of the drafted Patriot WR is a powerful force of darkness...overall I really don't care about past history since Vrabel took over...I will let the results of his regime speak for themself...right now I really trust him and the coaching staff and feel this franchise is moving in the right direction and putting the trash of Mayo's year and BB's/Jor-Don's BF last one or two behind them...now McDaniels is the OC and his system has been difficult for rookies in the past but outside of Bourne all the other WRs are seeing it for the first time as well...I am confident Williams contributes this year just not sure what that will mean from a stats side of things right now.

 

[Anarchy99]

Outside of Bourne all the other WRs are seeing it for the first time as well.

Hollins had a solid season when he played for McDaniels in LV in a supporting role. He put up 57-590-4 on 97 targets with another 40 yards rushing. That wass his most productive seasson by far.

I forget where I saw some talk about Bourne . . . was probably a podcast. McDaniels liked him as he could play the X, Y, and Z, could line up in the backfield, go in motion, run the ball some, and set up mismatches. I know the talk this off-season has been about Diggs, Douglas, and Williams, But the last time Hollins played for JMD he had 630 YFS and the last time Bourne played with JMD he had 925 YFS.

IMO, people WANT NE to use Diggs, Douglas, and Williams. Maybe they will use those guys a lot, but I still think the guys that JMD liked and used before will be guys that he will use again.

 

[Boston]

Outside of Bourne all the other WRs are seeing it for the first time as well.

Hollins had a solid season when he played for McDaniels in LV in a supporting role. He put up 57-590-4 on 97 targets with another 40 yards rushing. That wass his most productive seasson by far.

I forget where I saw some talk about Bourne . . . was probably a podcast. McDaniels liked him as he could play the X, Y, and Z, could line up in the backfield, go in motion, run the ball some, and set up mismatches. I know the talk this off-season has been about Diggs, Douglas, and Williams, But the last time Hollins played for JMD he had 630 YFS and the last time Bourne played with JMD he had 925 YFS.

IMO, people WANT NE to use Diggs, Douglas, and Williams. Maybe they will use those guys a lot, but I still think the guys that JMD liked and used before will be guys that he will use again.

You are discounting talent here...if Williams is the real deal he will play...if he isn't he won't...he is not sitting for average WRs like Hollins and Bourne if he is legit...still too early to really know if he is or isn't...can only go by what we see now and make guesses...the good news is he appears to be looking good...the bad news is it is still smoke and mirrors until the pads go on.

 

[Anarchy99]

You are discounting talent here...if Williams is the real deal he will play...if he isn't he won't...he is not sitting for average WRs like Hollins and Bourne if he is legit...still too early to really know if he is or isn't...can only go by what we see now and make guesses...the good news is he appears to be looking good...the bad news is it is still smoke and mirrors until the pads go on.

I guess the debate would become which is more valuable . . . talent or productivity? In Williams' case, no one at this point has any idea what he can and can't do (or what he will or won't be able to do in the future). What any of us on the boards think won't change the opinions of the coaches on the actual team, so anything posted here is just a healthy debate.

When the talk turned to WRs last night on TV, Curran mentioned that NE would have a respectable group of starting WR starters to kick off the season in Diggs (if he can go), Douglas, and Bourne. When Williams' name came up, he said they will have to figure out what he could do and how to use him, and that at some point later in the season they will give him some run to see what he could do, if he could contribute, and hopefully figure some things out by then. He also mentioned that he made some nice catches in shorts at OTA's, but that's not exactly the same as actual plays in games. Curran also said that the team hopes he can contribute something this season, but they have longer term aspirations that he will turn into something as he learns along the way. FWIW, there was no mention of Polk, Boutte, Baker, or Chism at all when Curran discussed who the main guys would be.

Again, I'm right there with you . . . we don't know what Williams will turn into. Just because other guys didn't contribute immediately in NE or with JMD before doesn't mean Williams can't, just like the fact that rookie WRs on other teams that made big contributions in Year 1 doesn't mean that someone in NE will step in and do that either. Every player and situation is different.

The one thing I would say that NE really hasn't done enough in terms of WRs over the years is they never really invested heavy in the draft or in free agency. Two of their most productive guys at WR were acquired by trade (Welker and Moss). Drafting and developing WRs hasn't exactly been their strong suit.

Again, with the caveat that anything is possible with Williams, I looked up the results for all WRs drafted over the last 5 seasons. I set a baseline of averaging 600 receiving yards in a season (which shouldn't be that huge a hurdle to get to). It was a basic exercise . . . rookies needed to have 600 yards last year, second year guys needed 1,200 total receiving yards, third year guys 1,800 total receiving yards, etc. There were 32 WR that had averaged 600 receiving yards a year, and 26 (81%) of them were drafted earlier than Williams was (69th overall). I get it, football is played on a field not a calculator. IMO, it's still pretty telling that 4 out of 5 guys that only averaged 600 yards a season were taken earlier in the draft. Yup, I get it, there also were guys drafted later than Williams, and some notable guys have been productive. If NE was great at finding productive mid- to late-round WR, then that might not make a difference. But since they haven't been great at that, I think they should have been trying to draft guys earlier than they have over the years.

Bottom line (at least for me), the daily blurbs from minicamp that PLAYER X made a nice catch over a practice squad defender or a guy that is predominantly a special teamer doesn't really mean a while lot or tell me much. Like you said, there will be a lot more to learn about WIlliams, and it likely may not reveal itself until September, or December, or next year.

 

[Boston]

You are discounting talent here...if Williams is the real deal he will play...if he isn't he won't...he is not sitting for average WRs like Hollins and Bourne if he is legit...still too early to really know if he is or isn't...can only go by what we see now and make guesses...the good news is he appears to be looking good...the bad news is it is still smoke and mirrors until the pads go on.

I guess the debate would become which is more valuable . . . talent or productivity? In Williams' case, no one at this point has any idea what he can and can't do (or what he will or won't be able to do in the future). What any of us on the boards think won't change the opinions of the coaches on the actual team, so anything posted here is just a healthy debate.

When the talk turned to WRs last night on TV, Curran mentioned that NE would have a respectable group of starting WR starters to kick off the season in Diggs (if he can go), Douglas, and Bourne. When Williams' name came up, he said they will have to figure out what he could do and how to use him, and that at some point later in the season they will give him some run to see what he could do, if he could contribute, and hopefully figure some things out by then. He also mentioned that he made some nice catches in shorts at OTA's, but that's not exactly the same as actual plays in games. Curran also said that the team hopes he can contribute something this season, but they have longer term aspirations that he will turn into something as he learns along the way. FWIW, there was no mention of Polk, Boutte, Baker, or Chism at all when Curran discussed who the main guys would be.

Again, I'm right there with you . . . we don't know what Williams will turn into. Just because other guys didn't contribute immediately in NE or with JMD before doesn't mean Williams can't, just like the fact that rookie WRs on other teams that made big contributions in Year 1 doesn't mean that someone in NE will step in and do that either. Every player and situation is different.

The one thing I would say that NE really hasn't done enough in terms of WRs over the years is they never really invested heavy in the draft or in free agency. Two of their most productive guys at WR were acquired by trade (Welker and Moss). Drafting and developing WRs hasn't exactly been their strong suit.

Again, with the caveat that anything is possible with Williams, I looked up the results for all WRs drafted over the last 5 seasons. I set a baseline of averaging 600 receiving yards in a season (which shouldn't be that huge a hurdle to get to). It was a basic exercise . . . rookies needed to have 600 yards last year, second year guys needed 1,200 total receiving yards, third year guys 1,800 total receiving yards, etc. There were 32 WR that had averaged 600 receiving yards a year, and 26 (81%) of them were drafted earlier than Williams was (69th overall). I get it, football is played on a field not a calculator. IMO, it's still pretty telling that 4 out of 5 guys that only averaged 600 yards a season were taken earlier in the draft. Yup, I get it, there also were guys drafted later than Williams, and some notable guys have been productive. If NE was great at finding productive mid- to late-round WR, then that might not make a difference. But since they haven't been great at that, I think they should have been trying to draft guys earlier than they have over the years.

Bottom line (at least for me), the daily blurbs from minicamp that PLAYER X made a nice catch over a practice squad defender or a guy that is predominantly a special teamer doesn't really mean a while lot or tell me much. Like you said, there will be a lot more to learn about WIlliams, and it likely may not reveal itself until September, or December, or next year.

All this being said I fully expect the Pats to invest pretty heavily in the WR position next offseason be it with a #1 or #2 draft pick and/or free agency (I would guess at least 1 new TE will be added as well)...this unit should be better than last year but it is still very much a work in progress...I don't think it's difficult to see a scenario where Williams is the only one from this group still on the team for the 2027 season...Diggs, Bourne and Hollins are bridge guys...who knows what is going on with Polk, Boutte, Baker and Chism (I do have my fingers crossed on Chism as I think most Patriot fans do) and Pop is kind of the wildcard...he can be productive but I don't think you can be a legit contender with him as a #1 or #2...for this year I'll just take solid/decent which would be a huge upgrade over the past few years and help with Maye's development.