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WR Sammy Watkins, BAL (2 Viewers)

Raider Nation said:
Very nice bounce-back effort today..... finally!
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Yep, but proceed with caution for next week. He was lumbering the last 5 minutes with what I am guessing is that hip that was bugging him all week. Was not in the game for some crucial plays at the end and had to check himself out late in the game.

 
Carter_Can_Fly said:
Raider Nation said:
Very nice bounce-back effort today..... finally!
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Yep, but proceed with caution for next week. He was lumbering the last 5 minutes with what I am guessing is that hip that was bugging him all week. Was not in the game for some crucial plays at the end and had to check himself out late in the game.
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He was laboring for sure.... was definitely gutting something out. Looked like he took a shot to the back on the crossing route where he almost scored.

 
Yeah I saw that too. I hope he plays because my only option next week is Anquan Boldin vs Seattle right now and I don't think I can play him.

 
Rotowolrd:

Sammy Watkins caught seven passes for 127 yards in Sunday's Week 14 loss at Denver.

Watkins' day started off in nightmare fashion as Bradley Roby stripped him for a lost fumble on his first catch. But the rookie picked himself up and showed he still has some juice left in his rookie year, going over 100 yards for the first time since Week 8. Event though a lot of that damage was done in garbage time, it's good to see Watkins beating 1-on-1 coverage and making the plays we know he's capable of. He'll be a WR3 in another tough matchup against the Packers in Week 15.

Dec 7 - 8:16 PM
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I'm hoping someone can save me the trouble of going back and watching the game again. Did Sammy burn Talib all day, or was someone else covering him? Woods only had 3 for 36, so I'm hopeful Talib was on him. The reason I'm wondering is because I'm staring at a matchup with the A.J. Green owner in week 16, when Denver is at the Bengals. I need Talib to be on top of his game.

 
I see some nice garbage time points coming for Sammy since the bills could be down 130 points by half time ;)

 
Raider Nation said:
I'm hoping someone can save me the trouble of going back and watching the game again. Did Sammy burn Talib all day, or was someone else covering him? Woods only had 3 for 36, so I'm hopeful Talib was on him. The reason I'm wondering is because I'm staring at a matchup with the A.J. Green owner in week 16, when Denver is at the Bengals. I need Talib to be on top of his game.
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Saw time against both Roby and Talib. According to PFF, caught 6 of 6 targets against Roby for 113 yards, but only 1 of 4 targets against Talib for 14 yards.

 
Is this raiders pass d actually one of the best, or is it more an illusion from teams pounding the run against them and generally being way up in blowouts?

 
acjohnson83 said:
Is this raiders pass d actually one of the best, or is it more an illusion from teams pounding the run against them and generally being way up in blowouts?
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Nobody is afraid to throw against us. I'm starting Sammy with confidence ... (and because I don't have a better option).

:scared:

 
good talent, wrong team , with a bad QB , and no decent QB on the horizon..

Watkins is going to be wallowing in the mire for years to come, especially with Revis in the division.

bad pick by the bills,especially with trading up to get him.. :toilet:

 
Sammy is sitting on 925 yards. You gotta figure they'd like to get him 1,000 with really nothing else to play for.

Either that or I'm trying to talk myself into starting him again.

 
Rotoworld:

Sammy Watkins - WR - Bills

Sammy Watkins caught 3-of-5 targets for 57 yards Week 17 against the Patriots.

Watkins hit the rookie wall hard in the second half of the season, but finished with a touchdown or 100 yards receiving in two of his last four games. Watkins finishes his rookie season with 65 catches for 982 yards and six touchdowns. One of the most talented receivers in what will turn out to be the best receiver class in the history of the NFL, Watkins' 2015 success hinges on how the Bills address their quarterback situation this offseason.

Dec 28 - 3:48 PM
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Milkman said:
Ok I took a look at a few numbers. Here is a list of players I calculated their 5 year peaks. I used PPR scoring 1PPR 6 pt per TD 1 point every 10 yards receiving.

1. 6'0 Harrison - 21.44

2. 6'3 TO - 20.31

*3. 6'5 Megatron - 19.72

4. 6'2 Rice - 19.34

**5. 6'3 A. Johnson - 19.00

6. 6'0 Holt - 18.76

7. 6'4 Moss - 18.63

8. 6'3 Cater - 18.12

9. 6'3 Fitz - 17.78

10 6'4 Marshall - 17.56

11. 5'9 Welker - 17.53

12. 6'2 Irvin - 17.32

13. 5'9 Smith - 17.15

14. 6'1 White - 17.05

15. 6'1 Rison - 16.94

16. 6'0 Brown - 16.57

17. 6'0 Wayne - 16.33

18. 6'0 Ward - 16.00

19. 5'10 Mason - 15.44

20. 6'0 Bruce - 15.05

21. 6'0 Fryar - 14.56

***22. 6'3 Lofton - 14.37

23. 5'11 Ellard - 14.25

24. 6'2 Reed 14.12

* Calvin Johnson may not have peaked yet.

** I took out AJ's 2011 where he missed 9 games

*** I took out Lofton's 82 season where he missed 6 games.

A couple of things to note here. First I probably missed somebody so if you can think of a player that would fit in this top 24 that I don't have in here please mention it and we can put him in here.

Second there are 13 WR on this list under 6'2. However, there is only 10 under 6'1. Watkins is under 6'1. Also if you notice the top 10 is dominated by BIG WR with 8 out of the 10. Third I think this shows how much of an anomaly Harrison really is. I mean I don't think anybody has him as their #1 WR of all time. He played with the GOAT QB and it shows. Harrison is still good I'm not going to argue that. He is def not the GOAT WR though. He is the only finesse receiver that I can see that was an elite red zone target. His stats at the very least are questionable.

Another thing to keep in mind is there are 6 young elite WR in the league that are 6'2 and above that have a great shot at breaking into this top 24. Dez, D. Thomas, Green, Jones, Gordon, Jeffery. 10 of the bottom 12 wr on this list are 6'2 or smaller. Guess who these BIG WR are going to bump off this list in the next 10 years. It seems, at least at this point, to be a trend.

Of all the small WR on this list it looks to me like being a tough strong wr like Steve Smith matters. Is Watkins that kind of WR? He came into the combine at a great weight and he has some tape showing him trucking over defenders. I think it's def possible. He does not have elite speed or size but his speed is great and his size for a small wr is good. Looking at these stats we need to ask ourselves if we think he is tough enough to be elite.

In closing it's obvious that size does in fact matter. In ten years I would estimate that 15-16 of the WR in the top 24 ff performers will in fact be 6'2 or taller with 9 of the top ten being 6'2 or bigger.
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Beckham is 5-11, 198.

Your thoughts, Milkman?

 
Rex Ryan with Greg Roman running the offense eh? That flushing sound was Watkins' value going down the commode...

 
Just one interesting note for Watkins owners: despite the screen being where Watkins did the most damage in college, the Bills threw just 4 screens to Sammy all year. Seems like gross negligence by the previous coaching regime.

 
fruity pebbles said:
starks said:
Rex Ryan with Greg Roman running the offense eh? That flushing sound was Watkins' value going down the commode...
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starks said:
Rex Ryan with Greg Roman running the offense eh? That flushing sound was Watkins' value going down the commode...
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Anquan Boldin disagrees
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Crabtree won't, no super studs in San Fran but that was a pretty deep group of receivers and not much came out of it. Maybe it's on Kaep but I would rather have him over EJ Manuel. As a SW owner I hope you are right but I feel like he is 2-3 years away given all the variables. Not what dynasty owners want to hear.

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
fruity pebbles said:
starks said:
Rex Ryan with Greg Roman running the offense eh? That flushing sound was Watkins' value going down the commode...
Click to expand...
starks said:
Rex Ryan with Greg Roman running the offense eh? That flushing sound was Watkins' value going down the commode...
Click to expand...
Anquan Boldin disagrees
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We're you envisioning Anquan Boldin numbers when you drafted Watkins at 1.01 or traded a ransom for him?
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Yeah, I'd say 85 catches 1200 yards is pretty good, especially at 33 years old

 
starks said:
fruity pebbles said:
starks said:
Rex Ryan with Greg Roman running the offense eh? That flushing sound was Watkins' value going down the commode...
Click to expand...
starks said:
Rex Ryan with Greg Roman running the offense eh? That flushing sound was Watkins' value going down the commode...
Click to expand...
Anquan Boldin disagrees
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Crabtree won't, no super studs in San Fran but that was a pretty deep group of receivers and not much came out of it. Maybe it's on Kaep but I would rather have him over EJ Manuel. As a SW owner I hope you are right but I feel like he is 2-3 years away given all the variables. Not what dynasty owners want to hear.
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Crabs had 85 catches and 1100 yards before tearing his achilles. Roman uses his WRs, now his tight end is another story.

 
fruity pebbles said:
ConnSKINS26 said:
fruity pebbles said:
starks said:
Rex Ryan with Greg Roman running the offense eh? That flushing sound was Watkins' value going down the commode...
Click to expand...
starks said:
Rex Ryan with Greg Roman running the offense eh? That flushing sound was Watkins' value going down the commode...
Click to expand...
Anquan Boldin disagrees
Click to expand...
We're you envisioning Anquan Boldin numbers when you drafted Watkins at 1.01 or traded a ransom for him?
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Yeah, I'd say 85 catches 1200 yards is pretty good, especially at 33 years old
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I think most Watkins owners have their sights set a little higher than the #19 WR overall (#24 WR in PPG).

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
fruity pebbles said:
ConnSKINS26 said:
fruity pebbles said:
starks said:
Rex Ryan with Greg Roman running the offense eh? That flushing sound was Watkins' value going down the commode...
Click to expand...
starks said:
Rex Ryan with Greg Roman running the offense eh? That flushing sound was Watkins' value going down the commode...
Click to expand...
Anquan Boldin disagrees
Click to expand...
We're you envisioning Anquan Boldin numbers when you drafted Watkins at 1.01 or traded a ransom for him?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'd say 85 catches 1200 yards is pretty good, especially at 33 years old
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I think most Watkins owners have their sights set a little higher than the #19 WR overall (#24 WR in PPG).
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I'd be pretty happy with 85 and 1200. That was also Boldins best season since 2005. Can Watkins outperform a 33 year old Boldin?

 
Didn't Ryan's son play with Watkins? I don't think Rex will have any problems realizing that Watkins is his bread & butter playmaker at WR. The problem for Watkins remains the fact that the QB position is still one of the biggest weaknesses for this team.

 
Should I sell Watkins now? This news scares me. 85/1200 is totally unacceptable. Nothing at all like the 130/2300 OBJ is going to put up next season.

 
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Rotoworld:

Coach Rex Ryan said the Percy Harvin signing was intended to "take a little pressure off Sammy Watkins."

"You might recall last year Sammy got doubled almost every snap," Ryan said. "You roll your coverage to him and all that. With a guy like Percy Harvin that's now going to be difficult to do." Watkins will remain the No. 1 target ahead of Harvin, Charles Clay and Robert Woods, but the Bills will ideally be among the league's most run-heavy offenses while trying to hide Matt Cassel/E.J. Manuel. Watkins profiles as a WR2 type in fantasy despite unique talent.

Related: Percy Harvin

Source: buffalobills.com
Mar 23 - 8:28 AM
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Rotoworld:

Sammy Watkins' hip injury was diagnosed as a "slight tear in his labrum."

Watkins' injury occurred late last season, and he underwent surgery "around Super Bowl time." Per the Buffalo News' Vic Carucci, Watkins won't participate much -- if at all -- during post-draft Organized Team Activities, but is fully expected to return by training camp. Watkins generally goes in the fourth and fifth rounds of My Fantasy League Draft-Only leagues (MFL10s).

Source: Vic Carucci on Twitter

Apr 3 - 2:55 PM
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ESPN's Josina Anderson reports Sammy Watkins underwent offseason hip surgery.

Watkins injured his hip in Week 13 and was limited in practice the following week before missing just eight snaps the rest of the season. More than likely, it was a minor scope for Watkins, but any lower-body issue for a receiver is cause for some concern. Watkins should be fine for a mostly-normal offseason program, though the Bills may hold their No. 1 receiver back a bit until training camp.

Source: Josina Anderson on Twitter

Apr 3 - 11:15 AM
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Just some food for thought...

-Andre Johnson rookie year: 66 catches, 976 yards and 4 tds

-Sammy Watkins rookie year: 65 catches, 982 yards and 6 td's

 
werdnoynek said:
Carter_Can_Fly said:
Just some food for thought...

-Andre Johnson rookie year: 66 catches, 976 yards and 4 tds

-Sammy Watkins rookie year: 65 catches, 982 yards and 6 td's
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AJ had Carr throwing him the ball too. This comparison is getting better.
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That fact by itself should prove to everyone Watkins is not where AJ was. Orton would have boosted Aj's production by 30 catches, 250 yards and 3 Tds easily.

 
Shutout said:
werdnoynek said:
Carter_Can_Fly said:
Just some food for thought...

-Andre Johnson rookie year: 66 catches, 976 yards and 4 tds

-Sammy Watkins rookie year: 65 catches, 982 yards and 6 td's
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AJ had Carr throwing him the ball too. This comparison is getting better.
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That fact by itself should prove to everyone Watkins is not where AJ was. Orton would have boosted Aj's production by 30 catches, 250 yards and 3 Tds easily.
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What formula are you using to arrive at these numbers? Or are they just random speculation? Should we tack on extra yards for the fact that Watkins faced Revis or the games that he played hurt? How about the games that Watkins had to play with EJ Manuel? Or should we just look at the numbers for what they are and accept that neither WR had an all-pro throwing to him.

 
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I haven't read a single post out of 28 pages, so I am probably going to post what others likely may have. I would suggest pumping the breaks on the AJ/Watkins comparisons (at least as the way shape up now).

For starters, the Bills are coached by a run first, predominantly conservative coach in Rex Ryan that loves to run the ball. In his time in NY, the Jets ranked:

Passing Attempts: 27, 29, 25, 17, 22, 32 (An average ranking of 25th)

Rushing Attempts: 4, 5 ,6 16, 2, 1 (An average ranking of 5th)

Greg Roman is now the Bills OC . . . . and he is also someone that loves to run the football. In his time as OC in SF, the 49ers ranked:

Passing Attempts: 29, 32, 31, 31 (An average ranking of 31st)

Rushing Attempts: 9, 3, 7, 3 (An average ranking of (5th)

If Cassel ends up as the starter, he also has a history of playing on more run centric teams. His teams' rankings when he was the majority shareholder as starter:

Passing Attempts: 12, 18, 29, 26, 29, 20 (An average ranking of 22nd)

Rushing Attempts: 4, 15, 1, 5, 5, 18 (An average ranking of 8th)

Also needed to be mentioned is that there are suddenly a lot of mouths to feed in BUF (with a smaller piece of pie to cut up in terms of passing/receiving production). Watkins will have plenty of guys to fight with for targets between Harvin, Clay, McCoy, Jackson, and Woods.

I would not be shocked if Watkins' numbers took a hit from last year. Andre Johnson put up 79-1142-6 his second year. Johnson became a fantasy factor when he started seeing 170-180 targets (which I don't see Watkins getting anytime soon). Johnson's numbers took off when Gary Kubiak opened up the offense. In Johnson's best 5 seasons, HOU ranked in the Top 10 in passing attempts in 4 of them.

Add everything up, and I don't see Watkins really breaking out anytime soon, as I would suspect the Bills will rank Bottom 5 in the league in passing attempts (with so-so QB play and a lot of guys sharing the receiving workload).

 
David,

I originally posted this prior to last year and I said that Watkins reminds me a lot of AJ in terms of his game and the type of player he will be in the NFL. There is a definite hold on his ceiling at the present time given the situation he is in. I do however believe he is going to be an elite WR in the NFL and it is just a matter of when.

 
Carter_Can_Fly said:
David,

I originally posted this prior to last year and I said that Watkins reminds me a lot of AJ in terms of his game and the type of player he will be in the NFL. There is a definite hold on his ceiling at the present time given the situation he is in. I do however believe he is going to be an elite WR in the NFL and it is just a matter of when.
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I agree that Watkins should be in line for a solid career. However, as the Bills are constituted, I don't see his present environment all that conducive to his short term growth and development. As with Andre Johnson, coaches, coordinators, schemes, and teammates change over time (and in Johnson's case for the better).

For Watkins' sake, I hope the powers that be are not so rigid that they will run their system no matter what and make the players fit their scheme. One would hope that they would adapt and play to the strengths of the talent and personnel on their team. However, at this point, I am leery as to home much the Bills' brass and coaches will reinvent themselves to accommodate a transcendent talent like Watkins. They certainly have not stopped this offseason preaching they will be playing smash mouth, ground and pound football with a stout defense. Hopefully they will open things up more given the talent they now have at the skill positions (assuming they have a QB rostered that can get them the ball consistently).

 
Anarchy99 said:
msommer said:
Wouldn't your time be better spent hyping Boyce or Dobson?
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Would not hype Boyce. At this point, hard to hype Dobson. So no.
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I'm sure you can come up with some other New England players to build up, rather than denigrating your divisional opponents in threads that were started over a year ago

 
msommer said:
Anarchy99 said:
msommer said:
Wouldn't your time be better spent hyping Boyce or Dobson?
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Would not hype Boyce. At this point, hard to hype Dobson. So no.
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I'm sure you can come up with some other New England players to build up, rather than denigrating your divisional opponents in threads that were started over a year ago
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:shrug: I'm a Bills fan, but I think it's fair to question what Sammy's upside is if the QB play doesn't improve or if Rex /Roman call very conservative games.

 
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