WR Sammy Watkins, BAL (2 Viewers)

[Anarchy99]

Wouldn't your time be better spent hyping Boyce or Dobson?

Would not hype Boyce. At this point, hard to hype Dobson. So no.

I'm sure you can come up with some other New England players to build up, rather than denigrating your divisional opponents in threads that were started over a year ago

I made TWO comments about the Bills . . . one that they overpaid for Clay . . . and the other that the Bills plan on having a conservative, run-centric offense and suddenly I am a Bills hater?

I also don't see myself as overly building up New England players, as I am usually just as hard on them. The comments I remember making on them the past couple of years was thinking Edelman would not do as well as Welker, Amendola would probably do ok, Dobson did decent when he was on the field, and Gronk would start really slow coming off of injury last year.

The fact of the matter is, coming off of last season the Patriots are effectively a 13-3 team and the Bills an 8-8 team (IMO, no way the Bills win in NE in Week 17 if the game mattered to NE). For now, on paper, the Bills appear to have gotten better while the Pats seem to have gotten worse. But it is still 5 months until the season starts and there will still be a lot of roster moves for all teams. It remains to be seen how much the Bills closed the gap given that the Pats had a 5 game advantage based on how the team performed last year.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Coach Rex Ryan confirmed Sammy Watkins (hip) will be "full-go" for training camp.
Watkins is expected to be limited during OTAs after undergoing February hip surgery. His status for the start of camp was never in doubt. Despite dealing with multiple injuries, Watkins started all 16 games as a rookie.

Source: buffalobills.com
Apr 15 - 5:39 PM

 

[jaybny2]

confusion happens when bumping a thread from last pre-season.

 

[Faust]

Re-drafting the 2014 wide receiver class

Excerpt:

Sammy Watkins, Buffalo BillsThe No. 4 overall pick in the 2014 NFL Draft is an especially challenging evaluation for two reasons: He entered the season with a painful rib injury, played through a groin pull at midseason and was hampered by a torn hip labrum throughout December. Along the way, shoddy quarterbacks EJ Manuel and Kyle Orton struggled mightily with ball placement, contributing to Watkins' low catch percentage.

In contrast to Evans, Watkins spent his rookie season taking on No. 1 corners and double teams. Between injuries, he showed the ability to get open with ease on shorter and intermediate routes, as defensive backs were forced to respect his deep speed on potential shot plays. At peak form, he can blow past corners in and out of breaks and create separation early in his routes. If not for errant passing, he would have blown past the 1,000-yard mark as a rookie.

The former Clemson star was as billed after the catch, showing dynamic acceleration and lower-body explosion to shed tackles and run away from defenders in the open field. With a running back's build, Watkins excels at the end-arounds, bubble screens, swing passes, slants, crossers and go routes typical of a "Z" receiver. If he's going to graduate to a bonafide No. 1, go-to threat, he must expand his route tree.

The Question: Can he win contested catches with regularity?

New coach Rex Ryan recently hyped Watkins as a "one in every 10-year player that comes down the road." For all of that obvious promise, Watkins encountered the doldrums in the second half of his rookie season, struggling to get open and make plays. He doesn't have the catch radius of Evans, Beckham or Kelvin Benjamin, which makes it harder for him to bail out scattershot quarterbacks. DeAndre Hopkins played that role at Clemson, precluding Watkins from running the sideline and pylon routes that he still needs to master if he's truly going to become "Larry Fitzgerald-like" in the NFL.

Comparison: Pierre Garcon turned superhero

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Re-drafting the 2014 wide receiver class

Excerpt:

Sammy Watkins, Buffalo BillsHe entered the season with a painful rib injury, played through a groin pull at midseason and was hampered by a torn hip labrum throughout December.

That scares the heck out of me. I'm really hoping these sorts of things don't nag him this year.

 

[amicsta]

Crabtree was able to find success in the Roman offense with sub-par qb play (if consider just kaep the passer) until his injuries caught up with him, and Sammy is much more talented I would say. If Watkins situation suppresses his value i think hes a good scoop right now.

 

[tdmills]

Crabtree was able to find success in the Roman offense with sub-par qb play (if consider just kaep the passer) until his injuries caught up with him, and Sammy is much more talented I would say. If Watkins situation suppresses his value i think hes a good scoop right now.

This is the most optimistic view.

His ADP is 16...that's not suppressed value, it's inflated.

 

[amicsta]

Crabtree was able to find success in the Roman offense with sub-par qb play (if consider just kaep the passer) until his injuries caught up with him, and Sammy is much more talented I would say. If Watkins situation suppresses his value i think hes a good scoop right now.

This is the most optimistic view.

His ADP is 16...that's not suppressed value, it's inflated.

I agree for now, but we still have plenty of time to see people talk up his situation and his ADP fall down. I also think in dynasty some ppl are quick to sour on situation especially after Evans was better as a rook.

 

[tdmills]

Crabtree was able to find success in the Roman offense with sub-par qb play (if consider just kaep the passer) until his injuries caught up with him, and Sammy is much more talented I would say. If Watkins situation suppresses his value i think hes a good scoop right now.

This is the most optimistic view.

His ADP is 16...that's not suppressed value, it's inflated.

I agree for now, but we still have plenty of time to see people talk up his situation and his ADP fall down. I also think in dynasty some ppl are quick to sour on situation especially after Evans was better as a rook.

At what point is his ADP a scoop for you?

 

[amicsta]

Crabtree was able to find success in the Roman offense with sub-par qb play (if consider just kaep the passer) until his injuries caught up with him, and Sammy is much more talented I would say. If Watkins situation suppresses his value i think hes a good scoop right now.

This is the most optimistic view.

His ADP is 16...that's not suppressed value, it's inflated.

I agree for now, but we still have plenty of time to see people talk up his situation and his ADP fall down. I also think in dynasty some ppl are quick to sour on situation especially after Evans was better as a rook.

At what point is his ADP a scoop for you?

I'd say if he fell to WR20 he's a target for me, so 4 spots. I think it's doable, but I never like to underestimate the public's ability to overrate young guys so it may never happen.

TBH in MFL10's hes WR17 right now, and I only have an issue with Jordan Matthews and Golden Tate being behind him.

 

[tdmills]

Crabtree was able to find success in the Roman offense with sub-par qb play (if consider just kaep the passer) until his injuries caught up with him, and Sammy is much more talented I would say. If Watkins situation suppresses his value i think hes a good scoop right now.

This is the most optimistic view.

His ADP is 16...that's not suppressed value, it's inflated.

I agree for now, but we still have plenty of time to see people talk up his situation and his ADP fall down. I also think in dynasty some ppl are quick to sour on situation especially after Evans was better as a rook.

At what point is his ADP a scoop for you?

I'd say if he fell to WR20 he's a target for me, so 4 spots. I think it's doable, but I never like to underestimate the public's ability to overrate young guys so it may never happen.

TBH in MFL10's hes WR17 right now, and I only have an issue with Jordan Matthews and Golden Tate being behind him.

I'm quoting dynasty overall #'s.

MFL is redraft

He is WR12 in dynasty ADP right now.

 

[amicsta]

Crabtree was able to find success in the Roman offense with sub-par qb play (if consider just kaep the passer) until his injuries caught up with him, and Sammy is much more talented I would say. If Watkins situation suppresses his value i think hes a good scoop right now.

This is the most optimistic view.

His ADP is 16...that's not suppressed value, it's inflated.

I agree for now, but we still have plenty of time to see people talk up his situation and his ADP fall down. I also think in dynasty some ppl are quick to sour on situation especially after Evans was better as a rook.

At what point is his ADP a scoop for you?

I'd say if he fell to WR20 he's a target for me, so 4 spots. I think it's doable, but I never like to underestimate the public's ability to overrate young guys so it may never happen.

TBH in MFL10's hes WR17 right now, and I only have an issue with Jordan Matthews and Golden Tate being behind him.

I'm quoting dynasty overall #'s.

MFL is redraft

He is WR12 in dynasty ADP right now.

Well in dynasty I can see him just about going anywhere. He's young and talented, thats pretty much where young and talented guys go

 

[tdmills]

Crabtree was able to find success in the Roman offense with sub-par qb play (if consider just kaep the passer) until his injuries caught up with him, and Sammy is much more talented I would say. If Watkins situation suppresses his value i think hes a good scoop right now.

This is the most optimistic view.

His ADP is 16...that's not suppressed value, it's inflated.

I agree for now, but we still have plenty of time to see people talk up his situation and his ADP fall down. I also think in dynasty some ppl are quick to sour on situation especially after Evans was better as a rook.

At what point is his ADP a scoop for you?

I'd say if he fell to WR20 he's a target for me, so 4 spots. I think it's doable, but I never like to underestimate the public's ability to overrate young guys so it may never happen.

TBH in MFL10's hes WR17 right now, and I only have an issue with Jordan Matthews and Golden Tate being behind him.

I'm quoting dynasty overall #'s.

MFL is redraft

He is WR12 in dynasty ADP right now.

Well in dynasty I can see him just about going anywhere. He's young and talented, thats pretty much where young and talented guys go

I disagree on how talented he is(if you look back in this thread) but that's fine. Year one, I was correct.

 

[amicsta]

Crabtree was able to find success in the Roman offense with sub-par qb play (if consider just kaep the passer) until his injuries caught up with him, and Sammy is much more talented I would say. If Watkins situation suppresses his value i think hes a good scoop right now.

This is the most optimistic view.

His ADP is 16...that's not suppressed value, it's inflated.

I agree for now, but we still have plenty of time to see people talk up his situation and his ADP fall down. I also think in dynasty some ppl are quick to sour on situation especially after Evans was better as a rook.

At what point is his ADP a scoop for you?

I'd say if he fell to WR20 he's a target for me, so 4 spots. I think it's doable, but I never like to underestimate the public's ability to overrate young guys so it may never happen.

TBH in MFL10's hes WR17 right now, and I only have an issue with Jordan Matthews and Golden Tate being behind him.

I'm quoting dynasty overall #'s.

MFL is redraft

He is WR12 in dynasty ADP right now.

Well in dynasty I can see him just about going anywhere. He's young and talented, thats pretty much where young and talented guys go

I disagree on how talented he is(if you look back in this thread) but that's fine. Year one, I was correct.

I had Evans over him, but I still think he's really good. I'm sure this is repetitive, but I haven't looked back at the thread: 65/982/6 is absolutely exceptional for a rookie. Only 19 WR in the last 45 years have done 60/900/5 as a rookie.

 

[georg013]

Just how talented is Watkins?

 

[msommer]

I disagree on how talented he is(if you look back in this thread) but that's fine. Year one, I was correct.

So a top 15/20 finish among all rookies the past 20 years is bad.

Ok.

:slowlybacksaway:

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I disagree on how talented he is(if you look back in this thread) but that's fine. Year one, I was correct.

So a top 15/20 finish among all rookies the past 20 years is bad.Ok.

:slowlybacksaway:

Yup. While playing through multiple injuries, with QBs who repeatedly missed him open on intermediate and deep routes. Clearly Watkins lacks talent.

 

[deancheated]

Just how talented is Watkins?

Go watch the last college game he played. Answer is very

 

[georg013]

Just how talented is Watkins?

Go watch the last college game he played. Answer is very

Apparently there are some who believe he is overrated. I am not one of them but I am curous to know where his value *should* be.

 

[tdmills]

Crabtree was able to find success in the Roman offense with sub-par qb play (if consider just kaep the passer) until his injuries caught up with him, and Sammy is much more talented I would say. If Watkins situation suppresses his value i think hes a good scoop right now.

This is the most optimistic view.

His ADP is 16...that's not suppressed value, it's inflated.

I agree for now, but we still have plenty of time to see people talk up his situation and his ADP fall down. I also think in dynasty some ppl are quick to sour on situation especially after Evans was better as a rook.

At what point is his ADP a scoop for you?

I'd say if he fell to WR20 he's a target for me, so 4 spots. I think it's doable, but I never like to underestimate the public's ability to overrate young guys so it may never happen.

TBH in MFL10's hes WR17 right now, and I only have an issue with Jordan Matthews and Golden Tate being behind him.

I'm quoting dynasty overall #'s.

MFL is redraft

He is WR12 in dynasty ADP right now.

Well in dynasty I can see him just about going anywhere. He's young and talented, thats pretty much where young and talented guys go

I disagree on how talented he is(if you look back in this thread) but that's fine. Year one, I was correct.

I had Evans over him, but I still think he's really good. I'm sure this is repetitive, but I haven't looked back at the thread: 65/982/6 is absolutely exceptional for a rookie. Only 19 WR in the last 45 years have done 60/900/5 as a rookie.

I don't think Watkins can ever be elite(top 5-7) at the WR position. I still think he's a good player(WR2 for his career probably), just not elite(which OBJ/Evans showed).

 

[tdmills]

I disagree on how talented he is(if you look back in this thread) but that's fine. Year one, I was correct.

So a top 15/20 finish among all rookies the past 20 years is bad.

Ok.

:slowlybacksaway:

How many targets do each of them have?

Don't believe me that Watkins is overrated...check out Matt Harmon's Reception Perception http://www.thebackyardbanter.com/reception-perception-sammy-watkins-and-cordarrelle-patterson.html

 

[tdmills]

Just how talented is Watkins?

Go watch the last college game he played. Answer is very

You mean the game when two of Ohio State's DB's didn't play? (Including Courtney Roby)

 

[tdmills]

Just how talented is Watkins?

Go watch the last college game he played. Answer is very

Apparently there are some who believe he is overrated. I am not one of them but I am curous to know where his value *should* be.

ADP 20-25

 

[amicsta]

I disagree on how talented he is(if you look back in this thread) but that's fine. Year one, I was correct.

So a top 15/20 finish among all rookies the past 20 years is bad.

Ok.

:slowlybacksaway:

How many targets do each of them have?

Don't believe me that Watkins is overrated...check out Matt Harmon's Reception Perception http://www.thebackyardbanter.com/reception-perception-sammy-watkins-and-cordarrelle-patterson.html

The differences between Watkins and Patterson are, to me, more important than the similarities. Watkins was Buffalo's number 1 WR and drew top coverage as a rookie. The same could not be said for Patterson. And, of course, the raw statistics are heavily in Watkins favor.

 

[tdmills]

I disagree on how talented he is(if you look back in this thread) but that's fine. Year one, I was correct.

So a top 15/20 finish among all rookies the past 20 years is bad.

Ok.

:slowlybacksaway:

How many targets do each of them have?

Don't believe me that Watkins is overrated...check out Matt Harmon's Reception Perception http://www.thebackyardbanter.com/reception-perception-sammy-watkins-and-cordarrelle-patterson.html

The differences between Watkins and Patterson are, to me, more important than the similarities. Watkins was Buffalo's number 1 WR and drew top coverage as a rookie. The same could not be said for Patterson. And, of course, the raw statistics are heavily in Watkins favor.

He didn't do well versus coverage or run as good of routes, as most thought in year one. That was my biggest take away.

 

[Faust]

Where Does Sammy Watkins' Rookie Season Rank Historically?

 

[amicsta]

I disagree on how talented he is(if you look back in this thread) but that's fine. Year one, I was correct.

So a top 15/20 finish among all rookies the past 20 years is bad.

Ok.

:slowlybacksaway:

How many targets do each of them have?

Don't believe me that Watkins is overrated...check out Matt Harmon's Reception Perception http://www.thebackyardbanter.com/reception-perception-sammy-watkins-and-cordarrelle-patterson.html

The differences between Watkins and Patterson are, to me, more important than the similarities. Watkins was Buffalo's number 1 WR and drew top coverage as a rookie. The same could not be said for Patterson. And, of course, the raw statistics are heavily in Watkins favor.

He didn't do well versus coverage or run as good of routes, as most thought in year one. That was my biggest take away.

I always find stuff like that interesting, because I feel like if people studied Watkins as a prospect, they would have already known that haha. The guy ran a pretty limited route tree at Clemson. I just think that the production is pretty elite. Only 14 receivers since the merger have recorded 60/900/5 with 14 YPR (or better) as rookies:

ODB

Evans

Watkins

Keenan Allen

A.J. Green

Mike Williams (Tampa)

Dwayne Bowe

Marques Colston

Michael Clayton

Kevin Johnson

Randy Moss

Joey Galloway

Bill Brooks

Chris Collinsworth

Most of those guys have had really good NFL career. I definitely understand the point though about being not "super elite". Like I said, I was much more in favor of Evans last offseason. But a low end WR1 career is still well within reach and would still be quite valuable considering his age.

 

[tdmills]

I disagree on how talented he is(if you look back in this thread) but that's fine. Year one, I was correct.

So a top 15/20 finish among all rookies the past 20 years is bad.

Ok.

:slowlybacksaway:

How many targets do each of them have?

Don't believe me that Watkins is overrated...check out Matt Harmon's Reception Perception http://www.thebackyardbanter.com/reception-perception-sammy-watkins-and-cordarrelle-patterson.html

The differences between Watkins and Patterson are, to me, more important than the similarities. Watkins was Buffalo's number 1 WR and drew top coverage as a rookie. The same could not be said for Patterson. And, of course, the raw statistics are heavily in Watkins favor.

He didn't do well versus coverage or run as good of routes, as most thought in year one. That was my biggest take away.

I always find stuff like that interesting, because I feel like if people studied Watkins as a prospect, they would have already known that haha. The guy ran a pretty limited route tree at Clemson. I just think that the production is pretty elite. Only 14 receivers since the merger have recorded 60/900/5 with 14 YPR (or better) as rookies:

ODB

Evans

Watkins

Keenan Allen

A.J. Green

Mike Williams (Tampa)

Dwayne Bowe

Marques Colston

Michael Clayton

Kevin Johnson

Randy Moss

Joey Galloway

Bill Brooks

Chris Collinsworth

Most of those guys have had really good NFL career. I definitely understand the point though about being not "super elite". Like I said, I was much more in favor of Evans last offseason. But a low end WR1 career is still well within reach and would still be quite valuable considering his age.

I think we're in more agreement than the rest in this thread.

For fun, lets see how each of these players did in Fantasy points per target(PPR).

ODB=2.25

Evans=2.00

Watkins=1.55

Keenan Allen=2.12

A.J. Green=1.84

Mike Williams (Tampa)= 1.76

Dwayne Bowe= 1.71

Marques Colston=1.92

Michael Clayton= 1.97

Kevin Johnson= 1.55

Randy Moss= 2.43

Can't find the targets for the players below(old guys)

Joey Galloway

Bill Brooks

Chris Collinsworth

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

Stats can be important, but context matters. Watkins is the real deal, and points per target is of mediocre use in evaluating him considering his significant -EV situation as a rookie.

 

[GroveDiesel]

According to FootballOutsiders, Sammy Watkins had the 2nd highest percentage of uncatchable balls thrown his way last year at 34.4%.

Making it obvious that the problem was awful quarterbacking and not somehow Watkins's fault, Robert Woods was also in the top 10 for that category.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

According to FootballOutsiders, Sammy Watkins had the 2nd highest percentage of uncatchable balls thrown his way last year at 34.4%.

Making it obvious that the problem was awful quarterbacking and not somehow Watkins's fault, Robert Woods was also in the top 10 for that category.

Great example of stats reinforcing what the eyes see.Challenge: will it be any better this year?

 

[OC Zed]

According to FootballOutsiders, Sammy Watkins had the 2nd highest percentage of uncatchable balls thrown his way last year at 34.4%.

Making it obvious that the problem was awful quarterbacking and not somehow Watkins's fault, Robert Woods was also in the top 10 for that category.

Great example of stats reinforcing what the eyes see.Challenge: will it be any better this year?

Probably so... If Manuel is as inaccurate as he was last year, then Cassel will almost certainly be the starter.

 

[GroveDiesel]

According to FootballOutsiders, Sammy Watkins had the 2nd highest percentage of uncatchable balls thrown his way last year at 34.4%.

Making it obvious that the problem was awful quarterbacking and not somehow Watkins's fault, Robert Woods was also in the top 10 for that category.

Great example of stats reinforcing what the eyes see.Challenge: will it be any better this year?

Probably so... If Manuel is as inaccurate as he was last year, then Cassel will almost certainly be the starter.

I would agree. The amazing thing is just how awful Orton really was too. The guys at FO straight up said it was astonishing at how Orton was just as inaccurate as Manuel was.

It's crazy to see where the team is today compared to 4 months ago when they were planning on going into 2015 with Marrone coaching and Orton at QB still.

 

[jurb26]

According to FootballOutsiders, Sammy Watkins had the 2nd highest percentage of uncatchable balls thrown his way last year at 34.4%.

Making it obvious that the problem was awful quarterbacking and not somehow Watkins's fault, Robert Woods was also in the top 10 for that category.

Great example of stats reinforcing what the eyes see.Challenge: will it be any better this year?

Probably so... If Manuel is as inaccurate as he was last year, then Cassel will almost certainly be the starter.

Yeah but Cassel sucks too.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

According to FootballOutsiders, Sammy Watkins had the 2nd highest percentage of uncatchable balls thrown his way last year at 34.4%.

Making it obvious that the problem was awful quarterbacking and not somehow Watkins's fault, Robert Woods was also in the top 10 for that category.

Great example of stats reinforcing what the eyes see.Challenge: will it be any better this year?

Probably so... If Manuel is as inaccurate as he was last year, then Cassel will almost certainly be the starter.

I would agree. The amazing thing is just how awful Orton really was too. The guys at FO straight up said it was astonishing at how Orton was just as inaccurate as Manuel was.It's crazy to see where the team is today compared to 4 months ago when they were planning on going into 2015 with Marrone coaching and Orton at QB still.

Why do you see Cassell as an upgrade over Orton?

 

[GroveDiesel]

According to FootballOutsiders, Sammy Watkins had the 2nd highest percentage of uncatchable balls thrown his way last year at 34.4%.

Making it obvious that the problem was awful quarterbacking and not somehow Watkins's fault, Robert Woods was also in the top 10 for that category.

Great example of stats reinforcing what the eyes see.Challenge: will it be any better this year?

Probably so... If Manuel is as inaccurate as he was last year, then Cassel will almost certainly be the starter.

I would agree. The amazing thing is just how awful Orton really was too. The guys at FO straight up said it was astonishing at how Orton was just as inaccurate as Manuel was.It's crazy to see where the team is today compared to 4 months ago when they were planning on going into 2015 with Marrone coaching and Orton at QB still.

Why do you see Cassell as an upgrade over Orton?

I haven't watched enough of Cassell to say for sure, but I find it very difficult to believe that he'll throw nearly as many uncatchable balls as Orton did last year.

Honestly, just the fact that Cassell is on board now and has an entire off season to work with his teammates is a huge advantage over Orton being signed a week before the season started.

 

[Anarchy99]

According to FootballOutsiders, Sammy Watkins had the 2nd highest percentage of uncatchable balls thrown his way last year at 34.4%.

Making it obvious that the problem was awful quarterbacking and not somehow Watkins's fault, Robert Woods was also in the top 10 for that category.

Great example of stats reinforcing what the eyes see.Challenge: will it be any better this year?

Probably so... If Manuel is as inaccurate as he was last year, then Cassel will almost certainly be the starter.

I would agree. The amazing thing is just how awful Orton really was too. The guys at FO straight up said it was astonishing at how Orton was just as inaccurate as Manuel was.It's crazy to see where the team is today compared to 4 months ago when they were planning on going into 2015 with Marrone coaching and Orton at QB still.

Why do you see Cassell as an upgrade over Orton?

I haven't watched enough of Cassell to say for sure, but I find it very difficult to believe that he'll throw nearly as many uncatchable balls as Orton did last year.

Honestly, just the fact that Cassell is on board now and has an entire off season to work with his teammates is a huge advantage over Orton being signed a week before the season started.

After his one year starting with the Pats, compared to league average, Cassel's completion rate has been -5.9%, -2.6%, -0.6%, -2.8%, -1%, and -4.9%.

 

[GroveDiesel]

According to FootballOutsiders, Sammy Watkins had the 2nd highest percentage of uncatchable balls thrown his way last year at 34.4%.

Making it obvious that the problem was awful quarterbacking and not somehow Watkins's fault, Robert Woods was also in the top 10 for that category.

Great example of stats reinforcing what the eyes see.Challenge: will it be any better this year?

Probably so... If Manuel is as inaccurate as he was last year, then Cassel will almost certainly be the starter.

I would agree. The amazing thing is just how awful Orton really was too. The guys at FO straight up said it was astonishing at how Orton was just as inaccurate as Manuel was.It's crazy to see where the team is today compared to 4 months ago when they were planning on going into 2015 with Marrone coaching and Orton at QB still.

Why do you see Cassell as an upgrade over Orton?

I haven't watched enough of Cassell to say for sure, but I find it very difficult to believe that he'll throw nearly as many uncatchable balls as Orton did last year.Honestly, just the fact that Cassell is on board now and has an entire off season to work with his teammates is a huge advantage over Orton being signed a week before the season started.

After his one year starting with the Pats, compared to league average, Cassel's completion rate has been -5.9%, -2.6%, -0.6%, -2.8%, -1%, and -4.9%.

What's his accuracy rate?

 

[shader]

According to FootballOutsiders, Sammy Watkins had the 2nd highest percentage of uncatchable balls thrown his way last year at 34.4%.

Making it obvious that the problem was awful quarterbacking and not somehow Watkins's fault, Robert Woods was also in the top 10 for that category.

Great example of stats reinforcing what the eyes see.Challenge: will it be any better this year?

Probably so... If Manuel is as inaccurate as he was last year, then Cassel will almost certainly be the starter.

I would agree. The amazing thing is just how awful Orton really was too. The guys at FO straight up said it was astonishing at how Orton was just as inaccurate as Manuel was.

It's crazy to see where the team is today compared to 4 months ago when they were planning on going into 2015 with Marrone coaching and Orton at QB still.

Orton to Cassell is a very slight upgrade.

 

[humpback]

I would agree. The amazing thing is just how awful Orton really was too. The guys at FO straight up said it was astonishing at how Orton was just as inaccurate as Manuel was.

It's crazy to see where the team is today compared to 4 months ago when they were planning on going into 2015 with Marrone coaching and Orton at QB still.

Link?

 

[GroveDiesel]

I would agree. The amazing thing is just how awful Orton really was too. The guys at FO straight up said it was astonishing at how Orton was just as inaccurate as Manuel was.

It's crazy to see where the team is today compared to 4 months ago when they were planning on going into 2015 with Marrone coaching and Orton at QB still.

Link?

I'm trying to find the other interaction that had more detail, but here's some of it:https://mobile.twitter.com/FO_ScottKacsmar/status/596080535849586688

I did mis-remember exactly who said what though. Kacsmar is from FO and he pointed out that Watkins and Woods were both in the top 10 for uncatchable ball percentage. It was Chris Wesseling from NFL.com that comments that he couldn't believe just how bad Orton was when he went back and looked at all of Watkins's targets.

 

[humpback]

I would agree. The amazing thing is just how awful Orton really was too. The guys at FO straight up said it was astonishing at how Orton was just as inaccurate as Manuel was.

It's crazy to see where the team is today compared to 4 months ago when they were planning on going into 2015 with Marrone coaching and Orton at QB still.

Link?

I'm trying to find the other interaction that had more detail, but here's some of it:https://mobile.twitter.com/FO_ScottKacsmar/status/596080535849586688

I did mis-remember exactly who said what though. Kacsmar is from FO and he pointed out that Watkins and Woods were both in the top 10 for uncatchable ball percentage. It was Chris Wesseling from NFL.com that comments that he couldn't believe just how bad Orton was when he went back and looked at all of Watkins's targets.

What about the comparison to EJ?

 

[GroveDiesel]

I would agree. The amazing thing is just how awful Orton really was too. The guys at FO straight up said it was astonishing at how Orton was just as inaccurate as Manuel was.

It's crazy to see where the team is today compared to 4 months ago when they were planning on going into 2015 with Marrone coaching and Orton at QB still.

Link?

I'm trying to find the other interaction that had more detail, but here's some of it:https://mobile.twitter.com/FO_ScottKacsmar/status/596080535849586688I did mis-remember exactly who said what though. Kacsmar is from FO and he pointed out that Watkins and Woods were both in the top 10 for uncatchable ball percentage. It was Chris Wesseling from NFL.com that comments that he couldn't believe just how bad Orton was when he went back and looked at all of Watkins's targets.

What about the comparison to EJ?

That was the other Twitter interaction. I can't find where I found it down the Twitter rabbit hole, sorry.

But with Manuel only playing 4 games and both Watkins and Woods being in the top 10 of that stat, it stands to reason that Orton was as bad as Manuel.

 

[humpback]

I would agree. The amazing thing is just how awful Orton really was too. The guys at FO straight up said it was astonishing at how Orton was just as inaccurate as Manuel was.

It's crazy to see where the team is today compared to 4 months ago when they were planning on going into 2015 with Marrone coaching and Orton at QB still.

Link?

I'm trying to find the other interaction that had more detail, but here's some of it:https://mobile.twitter.com/FO_ScottKacsmar/status/596080535849586688I did mis-remember exactly who said what though. Kacsmar is from FO and he pointed out that Watkins and Woods were both in the top 10 for uncatchable ball percentage. It was Chris Wesseling from NFL.com that comments that he couldn't believe just how bad Orton was when he went back and looked at all of Watkins's targets.

What about the comparison to EJ?

That was the other Twitter interaction. I can't find where I found it down the Twitter rabbit hole, sorry.But with Manuel only playing 4 games and both Watkins and Woods being in the top 10 of that stat, it stands to reason that Orton was as bad as Manuel.

Eh, I disagree. Orton's completion rate was 6.2% higher than EJ's, so IMO it stands to reason that he wasn't as bad as EJ.

In any event, Cassel is basically an Orton clone, so I wouldn't expect much to change there.

 

[georg013]

Trade Watkins.

 

[matuski]

Trade Watkins.

Andre Johnson has a new team, why not Sammy?

 

[OC Zed]

More on Bills QB play last year affecting Watkins:

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2015/5/9/8577029/bills-qbs-were-really-awful-throwing-to-sammy-watkins

 

[Faust]

How will Amari Cooper stack up against Sammy Watkins?

 

[Faust]

Sammy Watkins waits on Bills' sidelines, rehabbing hip

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Sammy Watkins' target count is expected to drop this season.

Watkins' 128 targets last year tied for 21st in the league and led the Bills. But now there's more talent on offense (Percy Harvin, Charles Clay, LeSean McCoy) and coach Rex Ryan will feature a run-based offense. In six years under Ryan, the Jets ranked 4th, 5th, 6th, 16th, 2nd and 1st in team rushing attempts.

Source: WGR 550 Buffalo
Jun 9 - 8:47 AM