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WR Stefon Diggs, NE (5 Viewers)

I'm still not buying everything on Diggs. Beat guys said he looked great running on the sidelines. But that's not football. He still hasn't passed a physical, he hasn't been activated, and NE could still pull the rug out from under him if they wanted. From what I could tell, they would only have paid him $4M if they wanted to run him out of town. Not saying that's where we are headed. but that is an outcome still on the table. How he is actually doing in his recovery is pure guesswork. There's a huge difference in running on the sideline and planting, cutting, and getting hit by a Mack truck. The return timetable has ranged from no delays or setbacks and active Week 1 . . . to potentially going on short-term IR or PUP and missing the first 4 weeks of the season. The boat episode may be gone but not forgotten. Ignoring all of that, my key things to consider are a soon to be 32-year-old WR returning from a serious knee injury on an offense that couldn't get out of its own way the past two seasons. I also am concerned the Pats have new faces on offense, but it remains to be seen if they actually got much better. And the McDaniel's system without Brady has been . . . not great. It's ranked in the 20s on average in points and yards without TB12. That's how things look through my lens, but others may see things differently.
I'm with you at this stage. Everyone looks good running in a straight line - until they are in a game and need to make movements at 100%.

There was a lot of talk about him missing the first 4 games and being on PUP. Right now that has died down a bit so I'm looking to maybe move him in a package deal. Obviously I can't move him straight up for a younger WR so one must be creative. I'm trying to capitalize on no negative news right now.

I believe in the talent, I just don't believe in him for the first 4-6 weeks. Even if he plays he's still coming off a serious knee injury that often takes half to a full season to get right. Yes they play but they aren't 100% yet. He is also turning 32 this fall.

If I could wait to capitalize after a good game or two I might be waiting 4-8 weeks. At that point would I get anymore than I would now?

The only hope is he plays week 1 and balls out right at the start of the season. Otherwise he will be forgotten and his value will continue to tank.
 
And the McDaniel's system without Brady has been . . . not great.
I wonder just how much of everything was because of Brady. Everyone around him seems to fall apart when he's gone.

McDaniels is a good OC (but not a good HC)...while you have to give a good amount of credit to Brady (actually a lot of credit) the work he did with Cam for that one year and Mac in his rookie year was excellent...he absolutely got the most out of both of them and the subpar talent BB saddled him with those years...I fully expect a dramatic upgrade in coaching for the Pats this year as they go from Mayo/Van Pelt to Vrabel/McDaniels.
 
And the McDaniel's system without Brady has been . . . not great.
I wonder just how much of everything was because of Brady. Everyone around him seems to fall apart when he's gone.

McDaniels is a good OC (but not a good HC)...while you have to give a good amount of credit to Brady (actually a lot of credit) the work he did with Cam for that one year and Mac in his rookie year was excellent...he absolutely got the most out of both of them and the subpar talent BB saddled him with those years...I fully expect a dramatic upgrade in coaching for the Pats this year as they go from Mayo/Van Pelt to Vrabel/McDaniels.
I’ll give you that the coaching staff is a huge upgrade, but I’m not sure the talent level offensively is anywhere near what it was in the Brady era. It’s a lot closer to the Rams than it was with either the Broncos or Raiders when McDaniels was with those teams. His time in NE without Brady produced a mixed bag of results. Not sure how we ended up here, as this is a Diggs thread. On that front, it’s really difficult what to expect out of Diggs given a lot of moving parts and issues.
 
And the McDaniel's system without Brady has been . . . not great.
I wonder just how much of everything was because of Brady. Everyone around him seems to fall apart when he's gone.

McDaniels is a good OC (but not a good HC)...while you have to give a good amount of credit to Brady (actually a lot of credit) the work he did with Cam for that one year and Mac in his rookie year was excellent...he absolutely got the most out of both of them and the subpar talent BB saddled him with those years...I fully expect a dramatic upgrade in coaching for the Pats this year as they go from Mayo/Van Pelt to Vrabel/McDaniels.
I’ll give you that the coaching staff is a huge upgrade, but I’m not sure the talent level offensively is anywhere near what it was in the Brady era. It’s a lot closer to the Rams than it was with either the Broncos or Raiders when McDaniels was with those teams. His time in NE without Brady produced a mixed bag of results. Not sure how we ended up here, as this is a Diggs thread. On that front, it’s really difficult what to expect out of Diggs given a lot of moving parts and issues.

No one thinks the talent level is close to the Brady era and not sure why that comparison would even be on the table...for those that are realistic it is very easy to see the talent-level (at least on paper) has been upgraded in a big way from the ditch BB left them in and the organization continued with last year...that doesn't mean this team is gonna win 11 games but it should mean they play competent football and will be competitive on a weekly basis and hopefully be in that 8 win ballpark...this is year 1 of a total rebuild and because there are still plenty of holes (especially at WR) someone like Diggs has a great opportunity to be very productive in the short-term...the x-factor as we all know is his injury which good or bad no one fully knows...all we do know is it appears it is heading in the direction but the good news is camp is starting so we can go from speculation to real info in the next month or so.
 
For those that are realistic it is very easy to see the talent-level (at least on paper) has been upgraded in a big way from the ditch BB left them in and the organization continued with last year.
The "on paper" part is where this gets hard to decipher. NE offensive rookies and players that other teams didn't want and the teams they were on cut them or opted not to re-sign them. But does that make them upgrades? They have some new parts on the OL . . . either rookies or retreads. Better? Who knows? Their WR room was deplorable and they added Diggs, Williams, and Hollins. Better? Who knows? It would hard for them to be worse, so "probably" is the right answer but the bar was terribly low.

They added Henderson . . . but does adding what likely will be a RB to a RBBC situation move the needle much? Who knows? Are any of the countless picks they made on offense in recent years going to play any better? Who knows? So no . . . I am not going to say that the "talent-level (on offense) has been upgraded in a big way" without any push back. Could they be? Sure. Will they be? Maybe. Is there a chance they are just as non-productive? Absolutely.

What I see is a few different players with a different coaching staff. But even that is getting overlooked. Their on their 7th OL coach in as many seasons. Their on their 4th OC in as many seasons. Their on their 6th WR coach in as many seasons. They haven't named a RB coach yet, but that guy will by their 5th one in 6 years. They've had a different QB coach in 6 consecutive seasons and a different TE coach the past 4. So sure, even I will suggest this coaching staff is more seasoned than last year's, but what I'm seeing is a lot of change for change's sake over the year. The staff they compiled all came from recent teams that were terrible and all these guys lost their jobs). It may seem like the Avengers are uniting, but like a lot of the players, they are retreads.

And for all the Patriots fans, I AM NOT saying they will be a dumpster fire again. But I am saying they could be. They also have a chance to turn things around if things play out right and be a wildcard team. But the range on their win total is likely the widest of any team in the NFL. I am expecting them to potentially double their win total, but that has more to do with a cupcake schedule than major talent upgrades.
 
For those that are realistic it is very easy to see the talent-level (at least on paper) has been upgraded in a big way from the ditch BB left them in and the organization continued with last year.
The "on paper" part is where this gets hard to decipher. NE offensive rookies and players that other teams didn't want and the teams they were on cut them or opted not to re-sign them. But does that make them upgrades? They have some new parts on the OL . . . either rookies or retreads. Better? Who knows? Their WR room was deplorable and they added Diggs, Williams, and Hollins. Better? Who knows? It would hard for them to be worse, so "probably" is the right answer but the bar was terribly low.

They added Henderson . . . but does adding what likely will be a RB to a RBBC situation move the needle much? Who knows? Are any of the countless picks they made on offense in recent years going to play any better? Who knows? So no . . . I am not going to say that the "talent-level (on offense) has been upgraded in a big way" without any push back. Could they be? Sure. Will they be? Maybe. Is there a chance they are just as non-productive? Absolutely.

What I see is a few different players with a different coaching staff. But even that is getting overlooked. Their on their 7th OL coach in as many seasons. Their on their 4th OC in as many seasons. Their on their 6th WR coach in as many seasons. They haven't named a RB coach yet, but that guy will by their 5th one in 6 years. They've had a different QB coach in 6 consecutive seasons and a different TE coach the past 4. So sure, even I will suggest this coaching staff is more seasoned than last year's, but what I'm seeing is a lot of change for change's sake over the year. The staff they compiled all came from recent teams that were terrible and all these guys lost their jobs). It may seem like the Avengers are uniting, but like a lot of the players, they are retreads.

And for all the Patriots fans, I AM NOT saying they will be a dumpster fire again. But I am saying they could be. They also have a chance to turn things around if things play out right and be a wildcard team. But the range on their win total is likely the widest of any team in the NFL. I am expecting them to potentially double their win total, but that has more to do with a cupcake schedule than major talent upgrades.

You are doing your best Felger impression...obviously everything is on paper but I feel 99.9% confident it will be better than last year and the year before because those rosters were ugly...my guess is the D takes the bigger jump this year because they invested more on that side of the ball...there is a chance that side of the ball could take a pretty big leap...on offense there is still a good amount of long-term work to be done (and I expect it to be a point of focus this off-season) but with the addition of McDaniels, Maye having a year under his belt and the additions of Henderson, Diggs, Williams, Moses, Campbell, Bradbury and Wilson I expect them to at least be competent which they weren't the past two years...I do agree their range of wins is wide and one of the reasons I am not focusing on that right now...I am more concerned with Vrabel changing the culture, Maye continuing on a positive path, the rookie class being legit, Milton Williams being the real deal and a player like Keion White becoming legit...if most of that happens they will win some games this year but I am more concerned that it happens and next offseason they are poised to become a legit playoff team regardless of the schedule.
 
Rhamondre Stevenson = pretty good

Rhamondre + Henderson = Good/Great (If Henderson even remotely lives up to his hype) Upgrade

Bourne + Boutte + Baker + Douglas + Polk + Osborn = :sick:

Bourne + Diggs + Douglas + Williams + Hollis + Baker/Polk = :ponder: Upgrade

I'd say it is safe to say the Pats offense will be better this year, barring a Maye meltdown.
 
They added Henderson . . . but does adding what likely will be a RB to a RBBC situation move the needle much?
Absolutely agree there's no way of knowing. But like every team, there's expectation whenever there's promise at QB. Henderson I like, Stevenson was benched last year for repeatedly putting the ball on the ground. Has a big contract, one I've read they could work out of. New regime, I think they ask him to take a pay cut. There's rumor, w/o much substance that McLauren could end up here. TE Henry I think could be excellent value late.
 
They added Henderson . . . but does adding what likely will be a RB to a RBBC situation move the needle much?
Absolutely agree there's no way of knowing. But like every team, there's expectation whenever there's promise at QB. Henderson I like, Stevenson was benched last year for repeatedly putting the ball on the ground. Has a big contract, one I've read they could work out of. New regime, I think they ask him to take a pay cut. There's rumor, w/o much substance that McLauren could end up here. TE Henry I think could be excellent value late.
I haven’t done a deep dive on NE projections yet, but everything needs to be evaluated in context. The offense will be better if only because it would be really difficult to get worse. Last year, if they had 10-20% additional points and total yards of offense, they still would have been a Bottom 10 offense. Most of the issues stemmed from their OL play being horrible. They didn’t have great pieces, had a lot of injuries, and didn’t have a lot of continuity from week to week.

They did what they always do. They added rookies and cast off free agents that are aging with injury concerns. That’s been the road map for years. I don’t want to be dismissive or stubborn, but that plan hasn’t worked great so far. I’ll give them a chance and will help for the best, but the offense will improve based on how well the line plays.

As far as Stevenson goes, he did have ball control issues, that’s true. But he had the most hits in the backfield of any RB in the league, and IIRC, his average point of contact was behind the LOS. Bottom line, that wasn’t in him. Put another way, if that happens with Henderson, he won’t do any better. Rhamondre was a McDaniels pick, so he should have a lot longer leash than if he was a choice of a different regime. If healthy and he gets blocking, there’s nothing bad about Stephenson. Sure, Henderson could have a lot to offer. But as a rookie, he may not have a ton of impact to the overall offense.
 
Albert Breer reports Diggs is trending toward being ready Week 1

https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nfl...ending-towards-being-ready-for-week-1/720361/

It feels to me like the Pink Coke thing had people bailing too much on him. We currently have Diggs as our WR32 on Footballguys rankings. I see him more in the 40's in other places.
I'm ok with your ranking trending up from the median now that the news cycle is over....we just have to each decide if we take any action when he gets his second foxboro strike...because the pink bag was "strike one".
 
Albert Breer reports Diggs is trending toward being ready Week 1

https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nfl...ending-towards-being-ready-for-week-1/720361/

It feels to me like the Pink Coke thing had people bailing too much on him. We currently have Diggs as our WR32 on Footballguys rankings. I see him more in the 40's in other places.
I received a few lowball offers for him in the one league I have a share. He’s worth more to me as a BYE week filler than the future 4th would help.

I agree with FBG rankings. The “Benadryl incident” has people overcorrecting.
 
Albert Breer reports Diggs is trending toward being ready Week 1

https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nfl...ending-towards-being-ready-for-week-1/720361/

It feels to me like the Pink Coke thing had people bailing too much on him. We currently have Diggs as our WR32 on Footballguys rankings. I see him more in the 40's in other places.
I'm ok with your ranking trending up from the median now that the news cycle is over....we just have to each decide if we take any action when he gets his second foxboro strike...because the pink bag was "strike one".

For sure. Anytime you're getting a player with this much talent in the WR30+ range, there are risks one has to be able to tolerate.

I'm not certain there will be more "strikes". But I also would not be surprised if there are. For me, though, I'm saying "if/when", not just "when". It becomes at some point defining exactly what's a "strike". And lots of that of course has to do with how productive Diggs is on the field. Will be interesting.
 
I haven’t done a deep dive on NE projections yet, but everything needs to be evaluated in context. The offense will be better if only because it would be really difficult to get worse. ... Most of the issues stemmed from their OL play being horrible. They didn’t have great pieces, had a lot of injuries, and didn’t have a lot of continuity from week to week. They did what they always do. They added rookies and cast off free agents that are aging with injury concerns. ... I’ll give them a chance and will [hope] for the best, but the offense will improve based on how well the line plays.

As far as Stevenson goes, he did have ball control issues, that’s true. But he had the most hits in the backfield of any RB in the league, and IIRC, his average point of contact was behind the LOS. Bottom line, that wasn’t [on] him. Put another way, if that happens with Henderson, he won’t do any better. Rhamondre was a McDaniels pick, so he should have a lot longer leash than if he was a choice of a different regime. If healthy and he gets blocking, there’s nothing bad about Stephenson. Sure, Henderson could have a lot to offer. But as a rookie, he may not have a ton of impact to the overall offense.
I agree with a lot of your points & that video with Diggs on a yacht serves as a distraction, I suppose. It's just me but he doesn't appear to be under the influence of anything. So then it's whether he openly traffics illicit drugs? Hot Sauce says Diggs was "caught" but of course can't elaborate on what he actually did... so frequently the truth has more to do with what isn't reported, what isn't said, what isn't shown.

Diggs & the three women for that matter, are all aware of the presence of whoever was videoing them. It's broad daylight & in very close proximity. Or, are we to entertain that the cameraphone was concealed, this person is perhaps an enemy of Diggs or a complete stranger & it's all just happenstance? Yeah, the problem with any such premise is that this same person remains unknown. Or, do we know? How is it that he or she is now not in the spotlight? I couldn't even find which platform it initially went viral on. But again, that's just me, is it known who made public this video? Are the two one and the same?

Have these women been identified & asked what Diggs passed them? Was anyone in the video asked whether they knew the person behind the cameraphone? Just way too many holes in the "story". Every offseason we're inundated with baseless rumors & stories that prove to be non-stories. Unless there's more that's known, that's where I'm filing this one.

Regarding Stevenson, what you said does resinate with me, I've said pretty much the same thing about Najee Harris. Point taken, Stevenson's performance isn't entirely of his own doing. But much of it is, apart from ball security there's the fact that he wasn't in top condition. It's being reported as a positive, that he's come to camp in better shape. That is positive, but dropping flab that he shouldn't have been carrying in the 1st place isn't the same as adding meat to the bone! I've also read that Gibson looked the part when given the opportunity.

Not every draft pick & acquisition is going to work out but I love teams that add & New England did very well. Could be a complete mirage, as you suggest. McDaniels is back but he isn't the HC nor the GM, but may well have factored in determining that RB was indeed a priority. You may want to determine to what extent the favorable coach-speak is linked to that contract. Stevenson is primarily a banger & those guys tend to wear down. Big SEC 'back with a lot tread left when he came out. Not a ball-carrier I'm targeting.
 
It becomes at some point defining exactly what's a "strike"
Strike = whatever he gets caught doing in public, on camera, without plausible deniability, etc.

One man’s opinion.

Strike=something Vrabel believes is counter to the culture he is trying to build after this franchise was run into the ground.

IMO they really need Diggs to be productive for one year…Pats had holes throughout the roster and WR was one they were only able to do some patchwork with…I fully expect this position to be one of their main priorities next off-season…if they get lucky and both Williams and Chism hit it could be a little less of a priority but even in a best-case scenario I don ‘t see them not pursuing a legit #1.
 

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