Bull Dozier
Footballguy
Sports games are my primary play now, especially NBA2K14. Is the difference in the sports game enough to upgrade?
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xbox one vs ps4 (1 Viewer)
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cstu
Footballguy
I also think Kinect Sports Rivals in April could be a system seller. As much as you hate Kinect, it looks like a major improvement over Kinect Sports and should appeal to a lot of people.
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jwb
Footballguy
I dunno - so far, I'm really liking the Kinect/voice control stuff. To give an example, you can call an audible / timeouts / challenges in madden instantly. It's kind of cool / more immersive. So is navigating around the console interface - it works much better than I thought it would.
Now, is being able to do that in one game worth $100? No. But look at it over the life of the console, and game designers having that option for certain gaming aspects - it becomes a much more compelling feature.
I was an xbox guy last generation, and the extra Benjamin didn't sway me one bit.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
That really should have been a launch title. Obviously I hate Kinect, but if you're going to bundle it with your system and charge an extra $100 for it, it would have been good business sense to feature at least one launch game that made meaningful use of Kinect. I know development takes time and can be unpredictable, but it's easier to market this console if you can point to a game or two that relies heavily on Kinect and wouldn't be possible on Playstation.
Again, I say that as somebody who despises Kinect, but I wasn't the target audience for this machine.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I think it's clear that MS gave up on a lot of things that would have made the launch a lot better in exchange for launching earlier. Maybe they saw what a headstart could do last gen and got scared, but this thing probably should have launched holiday 2015 alongside Titanfall/Kinect Rivals as launch titles and all the missing/broken interface features already packed in.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I'm sure for some people it's great. I'd wager that for the vast majority of gamers, yelling at their tv is not really a feature that they are all that excited about.
And I still don't think it's a feature that is selling systems by and large, especially when it places a $100 premium on that system. For a whole lot of teens, college students, young adults and non-gamer parents buying a system for little Johnnie, $100 IS a big deal, especially when the benefit of spending that extra $100 doesn't seem all that important.
jwb
Footballguy
For the bolded, I somewhat disagree. Because we really haven't seen what's coming up. Now that developers have this thing that's there on every system, I think we're going to start to see features beyond the somewhat "feels like it was thrown in" jumping and yelling. Like I mentioned, playing Madden and being able to say (not yell) "audible" and then pick an audible is actually pretty cool. You really have to try it to see what I mean, but it definitely adds to the game. I suspect we're going to see things like that taken to the next level, across all genres.
I think people who dismiss Kinect as some unwanted thing are going to be disappointed later when a game comes out with a really clever, cool use for it. As to the money, I agree I'm looking at the $100 from a "40's / no kids" perch, but even so, I just don't see that huge a difference between $400 and $500 when you're talking about a 5+ year item.
Bogeys
Footballguy
But will the multi-platform developers really (on any sort of large scale) do this? It can't be used on the PS4, so it seems to me it will be more like the last gen when the PS3 was more powerful but harder to work with programming wise so the companies went with the lowest common denominator for the most part.
The $100 wouldn't be a big deal if the xbox could meaningfully distinguish itself from the PS4. The problem is that the PS4 is equal or superior to the xbox in the ways that most consumers care about AND it's $100 more - hard to justify that. Given the apparently poor live interface, no HBO Go access (yet), and no must have exclusives (yet), the XB1 would actually currently be a downgrade from my 360 in terms of what I'm using the console for.
cstu
Footballguy
The $100 is a problem when the reason it's $100 more is mostly because of a Kinect feature that has no must-have game for it yet. People that need to have Gears/Halo/Titanfall/etc. will pay the extra money but for most people the PS4 will be the smarter decision. However, MS included the Kinect on every system for a reason and if there is a Kinect game that is a big hit then systems will fly off the shelves. I think Kinect Sports could be that game since it will appeal to mainstream gamers and kids.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I could be wrong, but I bet Kinect Sports will not be a system seller. They're trying so hard to replicate what the Wii had with Wii Sports but that was a completely different animal IMO. Tons and tons of basically non-gamers were convinced to drop $200 due to the Wii Sports craze. I'd bet that a substantial number of them either never bought a single game more or went and bought the Wii balance board thingy and that was it.
That same crowd has moved on to casual games on phones and tablets. No way will they spend $500 on a console. Casual gamers are going to play almost exclusively on phones and tablets. Consoles will be for serious gamers and my guess is a very small percentage will choose a system based on a gimmicky thing like Kinect Sports.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Microsoft should have learned from the last-gen that price is a huge factor in the purchasing decision. It was incredibly arrogant and foolish of them to price this at $500.
cstu
Footballguy
I don't think it will be a system seller the way Wii Sports was for the Wii, but they need a game that will give casual gamers a reason to buy an X1 over a PS3. That doesn't exist right now.
Phones and tablets are one thing, but they don't allow to play with friends. The price will put off some, but others will think $500 is worth it to have something to play with friends when they come over.
What the $100 gap is attributable to is irrelevant. If XB1 launched with critically acclaimed Gears and Halo 5 titles, it'd be worth the extra money for a lot of people (regardless of whether the technical reason for the increase was the kinect). But when your product is more expensive, the burden is on you to show some decent reason why and MS hasn't done that.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I don't think casual gamers are worried about playing video games with friends when they come over.
The XB1 does have some nice features, I just don't think most people are going to see any of them being worth a price premium. So far that seems like it's been the case. Of course, gaming exclusives are the one thing that can make a huge difference. Titanfall may be that game. We'll see.
But my guess is that, so far, most XB1 owners either had a 360 exclusively before and have bought into tthe MS ecosystem or they own both an XB1 and a PS4.
I would bet that there are more PS4 owners that either switched from the 360 or owned both before and just have a PS4 now.
The XB1 does have some nice features, I just don't think most people are going to see any of them being worth a price premium. So far that seems like it's been the case. Of course, gaming exclusives are the one thing that can make a huge difference. Titanfall may be that game. We'll see.
But my guess is that, so far, most XB1 owners either had a 360 exclusively before and have bought into tthe MS ecosystem or they own both an XB1 and a PS4.
I would bet that there are more PS4 owners that either switched from the 360 or owned both before and just have a PS4 now.
OC Zed
Footballguy
It's too early to say as NBA2k14 is the only decent sports game out on the new systems so far (I'm not counting Madden which sucks in general and the new generation Madden was reviewed as a step back from current gen). I'd wait to see how The Show is and maybe even until fall to see if Madden has its act together on the new systems yet.
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
This guy is %100 correct. It is not that the xbone is horrible it's just that it doesn't do many things better (and quite a few things worse) than PS4 that would justify paying more for it.
cstu
Footballguy
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
The thing is PS4 HAS voice controls. I used them....for a day. They work reasonably well but not well enough for me to care or to keep using them which I think is the point. Voice control is a feature the some people won't use even if it were free and MS bet people would pay 100 bucks for it.
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Frank Drebin
Footballguy
What was the Wii, $300? That's a heck of a lot closer to what a non-gamer would be willing to pay than the XB1.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Yeah, on a system that was $200 and that many of them regretted buying. My parents and half their friends bought a Wii. I can promise you that none of them will be buying another gaming console. They're all content to play games on their phones and iPads and play actual board or card games when they go to each others houses.
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
You are right and a LOT of people including MS bet bank on that trend. Look back to last year there was an article every day about the demise of console gaming and how casual gaming was going to cause both xbone and PS4 to tank.
I don't have the answer to this one. I thought there was no chance of this gen console tanking because hardcore gamers want Destiny not flappy bird, but the disappearance of the casual console gamer is a mystery to me.
Wii U and Kinect seemed sure bets, was the Wii just a really successful fad?
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
Good point, but isn't the Wii U at least close to that price point? I know it is now but I can't remember how much they were going for at launch.
cstu
Footballguy
There's certainly a huge fad factor that the Wii had going for it but the Kinect holds a lot of potential. The Wii U has failed so far due to lack of games - seriously, outside of Mario 3D World what else is there?
The Wii was cheap and included the Sports game. Motion control was pretty novel 8 years ago, but it is pretty meh after a while. A lot of Wii spent most of their life collecting dust.
People aren't going to be dropping $560 to play party games on occasion.
Pretty much that. Also something to play new first party games with your old Gamecube controller.
jwb
Footballguy
as someone who thinks the Kinect has excellent potential and will eventually be worth the money, I do agree with the above.
Frank Drebin
Footballguy
It is, but it just doesn't have that killer app factor that the original Wii had. Not to mention, I think there is a huge contingent of parents out there who don't even realize that that the WiiU is a whole new system...they just think it's an accessory for the Wii.
The bolded is the part everyone seems to forget. The Wii had its killer app included in the box.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
The casual motion gaming craze was a fad and it has passed. If MS was banking on people spending $500 for a party game 7 years too late then they're going to be disappointed.
There's a lot of potential for the Kinect to make things better/easier. The problem is that there isn't a person in the MS office that has a care in the world about actual ease of use. I've harped on this for a while, but if we could do things like invite people to the game/party by voice without ever going into a menu that would be a huge boon. That would actually solve a very common annoyance (trying to navigate through menus to invite people to a game while playing MP, where you can't pause), but they're more interested in cool technology than actually making that technology useful.
The auto sign-in via Kinect is a perfect example. The camera can recognize you and sign you in automatically! How cool is that?! Except, in order to show that off, we're going to remove the option to just have your console sign-in for you every time it boots up, which is significantly more convenient because it means you can walk away and do other stuff while the console boots and it will still sign in for you. So not only is this new method not really that useful, it's actually less convenient than the thing we ripped away from you. But hey, it's cool!
Of course, this extends well beyond just Kinect and you have to wonder if anyone in that office has ever actually used an Xbox. For instance, how the heck did removing the battery indicator ever get approved? Was there no one in the office that said "hey guys, people probably want to know how much battery life their controller has"? Was there not also someone there to say that people would want party chat on by default. I mean, did everyone sit down and say "I really like how I have to press an extra button to chat now"?
Same thing with the friends list. "Check out all this cool new stuff and all these new animations we added!" Did no one in the office actually use it in a real world setting? Yes, that new stuff is cool, but not so cool that we want the stuff that we ACTUALLY USE on a regular basis buried 5 extra button clicks and 10 seconds of loading behind it.
It's all just so...dumb. I feel like I run into something new every day. Today I went into upload studio to combine a few clips together. They have a whole interface built for doing exactly that. Except, in order to do so you have to combine EXACTLY five clips together. Not two, three, four, or six. Five. Exactly. LOL, who the heck came up with that and how the heck did it get approved? Is there no one in the entire Xbox office that thought "ya know, maybe sometimes people will only want to combine two clips together, or three clips together, or some number of clips not equal to EXACTLY five".
It just blows my mind.
There's a lot of potential for the Kinect to make things better/easier. The problem is that there isn't a person in the MS office that has a care in the world about actual ease of use. I've harped on this for a while, but if we could do things like invite people to the game/party by voice without ever going into a menu that would be a huge boon. That would actually solve a very common annoyance (trying to navigate through menus to invite people to a game while playing MP, where you can't pause), but they're more interested in cool technology than actually making that technology useful.
The auto sign-in via Kinect is a perfect example. The camera can recognize you and sign you in automatically! How cool is that?! Except, in order to show that off, we're going to remove the option to just have your console sign-in for you every time it boots up, which is significantly more convenient because it means you can walk away and do other stuff while the console boots and it will still sign in for you. So not only is this new method not really that useful, it's actually less convenient than the thing we ripped away from you. But hey, it's cool!
Of course, this extends well beyond just Kinect and you have to wonder if anyone in that office has ever actually used an Xbox. For instance, how the heck did removing the battery indicator ever get approved? Was there no one in the office that said "hey guys, people probably want to know how much battery life their controller has"? Was there not also someone there to say that people would want party chat on by default. I mean, did everyone sit down and say "I really like how I have to press an extra button to chat now"?
Same thing with the friends list. "Check out all this cool new stuff and all these new animations we added!" Did no one in the office actually use it in a real world setting? Yes, that new stuff is cool, but not so cool that we want the stuff that we ACTUALLY USE on a regular basis buried 5 extra button clicks and 10 seconds of loading behind it.
It's all just so...dumb. I feel like I run into something new every day. Today I went into upload studio to combine a few clips together. They have a whole interface built for doing exactly that. Except, in order to do so you have to combine EXACTLY five clips together. Not two, three, four, or six. Five. Exactly. LOL, who the heck came up with that and how the heck did it get approved? Is there no one in the entire Xbox office that thought "ya know, maybe sometimes people will only want to combine two clips together, or three clips together, or some number of clips not equal to EXACTLY five".
It just blows my mind.
Fennis
Footballguy
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Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
PS4
Yakuza Restoration 2/22
http://bgr.com/2014/02/20/yakuza-playstation-4-1080p-screenshots/
Basement Crawl 2/24
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/450451/basement-crawl-for-ps4-to-release-february-25/
Daylight 4/8
http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/daylight/news/daylight_to_launch_on_ps4_and_pc_on_april_8.html
Yakuza Restoration 2/22
http://bgr.com/2014/02/20/yakuza-playstation-4-1080p-screenshots/
Basement Crawl 2/24
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/450451/basement-crawl-for-ps4-to-release-february-25/
Daylight 4/8
http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/daylight/news/daylight_to_launch_on_ps4_and_pc_on_april_8.html
jwb
Footballguy
I agree with you on most issues, but I also think almost all of the things you are complaining about will come to pass. Fairly quickly, too.
I'm ok with them releasing it like this. It works well for what it does, and, to me, will clearly get better. I guess I just don't expect a home run right out of the box. I was likely going to buy an Xbox One anyway this year, so why not now, and try out the new features, and maybe have a chance to give feedback, too? I'm still running my 360, and may even still buy some games for it. I see running both for maybe a year or so.
But I rarely complain about the gaming industry anyway. I like games / systems / etc, and think most companies/products do a pretty good job overall. I remember Atari when your character was an arrow or a square. What we have now blows me away enough that the complaints seem trivial.
SlaX
Footballguy
I still don't own a blu-ray player and I've been doing some research into which models are the best blu-ray players. But the Playstation 3 is STILL considered one of the best blu-ray players on the market and I consistently see it in top 5 lists. That's impressive; I'd have thought that after this long, there would be a massive improvement in stand-alone players.
Sorry, I know that wasn't video game related, but I thought it was worth stating.
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Fennis
Footballguy
Titanfall available via pre-purchase and full download prior to launch: https://store.xbox.com/en-US/Xbox-One/Games/Titanfall/8ef9f044-dab7-49f9-9ec6-0aa4c1686efe
Hopefully digital games continue to follow this model. No need to wait for the DL to complete before you can play on launch day.
Hopefully digital games continue to follow this model. No need to wait for the DL to complete before you can play on launch day.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This is a no-brainer. Why should I have to fight with a million other people and limited bandwith on launch day when I could download at night a few days before instead?
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
Sony to reveal their VR headset next month at GDC
http://www.playstationtrophies.org/news/news-12377-PlayStation-4-VR-Headset-to-Debut-at-GDC-.html
http://www.playstationtrophies.org/news/news-12377-PlayStation-4-VR-Headset-to-Debut-at-GDC-.html
Fennis
Footballguy
especially on the PSN network which on the best days is laggy.
This is a no-brainer. Why should I have to fight with a million other people and limited bandwith on launch day when I could download at night a few days before instead?
(Now I'm learning how this thread works.)
Worm
slimy ninja
belljr
Footballguy
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
For that price it better work. I would pay a fair price for a holodeck like experience even if it didn't involve porn.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
My knee jerk reaction is that VR is just the latest fad, following motion control and 3D gaming. I'm not sure they can ever get the price of something like this down far enough to spark widespread sales, which they need to receive developer support.
Frank Drebin
Footballguy
Oops, just kidding everyone!IvanKaramazov said:Fennis said:
This is a no-brainer. Why should I have to fight with a million other people and limited bandwith on launch day when I could download at night a few days before instead?
Fennis
Footballguy
### ####d GameStopOops, just kidding everyone!IvanKaramazov said:Fennis said:
This is a no-brainer. Why should I have to fight with a million other people and limited bandwith on launch day when I could download at night a few days before instead?
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
Keep waiting suckers!### ####d GameStopOops, just kidding everyone!IvanKaramazov said:Fennis said:
This is a no-brainer. Why should I have to fight with a million other people and limited bandwith on launch day when I could download at night a few days before instead?
http://media3.giphy.com/media/11eFSHLGikTK48/200_s.gif
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Is this really that big a threat to brick-and-mortar retailers? Not that many people buy digitally to begin with, and those who do will probably do so regardless of whether early downloads are available or not. Sony and Microsoft need to make this happen.
