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Yellow Board Guys (1 Viewer)

The yellow board did seem more civil, do you post less now because it doesn't seem worth it?

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Drugrunner's Alias

Footballguy
Outside of bashing the bejesus out of Jets94, did the Yellow board seem more civil?I know that I post alot less analysis and comments now days, and in a way I could make a case that it just hasn't seem worth it to get into detail.I remember hugely insightful conversations with the likes of cracker, ham, MoP, even Jets. I just don't feel the same way as much anymore. Unless it is a dynasty style thread, I find myself not making the same effort I used to.Is this true, or is it as Shick! says, just fond remembrance?Is the bashing now really any less than the pile on Jets94? :rotflmao:This Poll brought to you by the good people at Bueno

See what happens when other mesage boards go premium service?I've been here since Cheatsheets.com.  Maybe I do remember the "old days" a bit fondly, but I've noticed something about my habits here:1.  I rarely finish reading a thread because they all break down into name calling.2.  I don't post as much as I used to, mainly because a lot of the time, someone else has already made my point.3.  I find it harder and harder to separate the wheat from the chaff.  Pollution by dilution would describe the boards some days.Frankly I blame the Huddle :half-joke: When the Huddle message boards went pay, this Board exploded as those who woud not pay went elsewhere.I too would like to see a return to the days when there were just a few thousand of us registered and the board was mainly VBD geeks, and we actually argued statistics without getting ridiculed.  I haven't seen a good discussion of standard deviation yet this year!  Frankly though, that isn't going to happen.I personally think Joe made a mistake when he left his highest cost item (the message boards) out of the premium service.  It sounds like now, maybe he's beginning to rethink that decision.  Personally, I hope he is.Something for you post-padders and flamers to consider.....Edited to add a thought:  I wonder how many of the original 1500 or so (old board numbers) are still here, and if they are, how many have stopped posting with the frequency they did in the past.
 
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If it weren't for the different software, I'd swear I was at FFtoday. :DThat said, I am not without the occasional indulgence in quick and pointless remarks berating others for lacking even second grade spelling and grammar. But, come on folks! then/thanto/tooDillion? Fischer? :hot: :rotflmao:

 
honestly, i think more kids and teens are discovering these boards which might be why a lot of people are acting like them. think about, how many people had no clue air fryar was a kid? my 2 sons didnt understand ff until i showed one of them how to play on a yahoo league last year. after that, he wants to help me with my money leagues (and of course i say yes). therefore he looks at this site just like i do. while i dont see anything wrong with kids playing ff and coming to this site for information, i do agree though that all the childish bickering is getting out of hand

 
Come on, Jets94 had some great stuff - and obviously way too much time on his hands.We bashed Jets94 because he was such a blind hopeless homer (and he deserved it).Wasn't he going to college? Anyone know if he flunked out because he spent too much time on Fantasy Football analyses?

 
If it weren't for the different software, I'd swear I was at FFtoday. :DThat said, I am not without the occasional indulgence in quick and pointless remarks berating others for lacking even second grade spelling and grammar. But, come on folks! then/thanto/tooDillion? Fischer? :hot: :rotflmao:
Topes, as long as my signature disclaimer takes me out of it, I'll agree with you :rotflmao:
 
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If it weren't for the different software, I'd swear I was at FFtoday. :DThat said, I am not without the occasional indulgence in quick and pointless remarks berating others for lacking even second grade spelling and grammar. But, come on folks! then/thanto/tooDillion? Fischer? :hot: :rotflmao:
Occasional? You know, I don't think you know the meaning of that word!
 
Come on, Jets94 had some great stuff - and obviously way too much time on his hands.We bashed Jets94 because he was such a blind hopeless homer (and he deserved it).Wasn't he going to college? Anyone know if he flunked out because he spent too much time on Fantasy Football analyses?
LOL,Rumor has it he is doing just fine at a certain school once known for its fabulous football program but now beholden to an old, outdated coaching institution by the name of JoePa.You realize of course that Jets94=Chase Stuart, a fellow staff member, right?Cheers
 
Yeah, I post (even) less that I used to. I'm not sure it has anything to do with the board itself, though.I think there's an 'active lifespan' of about a year around here. After that, you've already seen all of the arguments, and you're ready to start conversing in shorthand, so to speak.To put it another way, there's no point in having an argument about a player if it's the same argument you had about a different player last year, especially if you're arguing with somebody that's new and fresh and needs to have everything explained at great length.It's possible there's less civility around here than before, but I wouldn't guarantee it. There were plenty of jerks around back then, too...

 
the difference is the yellow board Shark Pool was more informative than this one, more real news/content. as for the FFA, its the same as ever. Probably one of the best message boards on the net for simple entertainment value, daily.Since I spend most of my time in the FFA and just kind of glance through most of the Shark pool threads (hint- the bulk of what you see you can find on the newsblogger) it doesn't really affect me if people are more "mouthy" now. If I made my FF decisions based on the Shark Pool, I'd be the lowest scoring team in my league.

 
I've been coming to this site since the “yellow days” and pre-pay and have to agree that the content and useful information has dwindled significantly this year. There is still useful information but you have to filter through a lot of hotheaded remarks and childish retorts in order to decipher the information. Having said that, I rarely posted before and continue this trend in the “blue days”, not because I have no opinion but because I feel that they are like a-holes, everybody has one.

 
Come on, Jets94 had some great stuff - and obviously way too much time on his hands.We bashed Jets94 because he was such a blind hopeless homer (and he deserved it).Wasn't he going to college? Anyone know if he flunked out because he spent too much time on Fantasy Football analyses?
LOL,Rumor has it he is doing just fine at a certain school once known for its fabulous football program but now beholden to an old, outdated coaching institution by the name of JoePa.You realize of course that Jets94=Chase Stuart, a fellow staff member, right?Cheers
Yep, for awhile there, Chase still = Jets, and he still went off half cocked.Unfortunately, Chase has settled down, and the magic is gone (Most likely sessions with Joe behind the tool shed) :rotflmao: I miss Jets.
 
i dont know how many or even where people have come from but the researcher that i am i limit my stat analysis and conversation to this site only. i hear about rotoworld, fftoday, huddle, and some others but i never go to those places. sure, making the boards a "members only" courtesy might take our the riff raff but what happens when those same riff raff pay to be members???? i agree with the general setiment though that the free for all as been highly exaggerated compared to the old board and at times the shark pool as well but i dont think going pay will resolve this matter. on a side note i have not seen some member names from Ole Yeller on the new Big Blue so i have no idea where they are, but it would be nice to know where people found out about this place. dont know if Joe might need to make another "Must Read" thread explaining the rules but the riff raff wont go away easily. i post more now but i have different motivations for doing so.

 
I would have to agree with most of the main points here. I find myself lurking a lot more than posting these days (and even a lot less of that). As soon as I get into a post that reduces itself to namecalling and bashing, I click to a different thread. It used to be that if I clicked in 10 threads, I would find something useful in 8-9 of them. Now it is maybe 1-2 out of 10. Less value = less ROI = less time spent here as I can make better use of my limited resources elsewhere.I never thought I would say this but I do find myself looking at the names attached to the threads when determining if I should even open them. If I remember the name as an old school message boarder, I am much more apt to read the thread. There is a lot to be said about all the additional services being provided by this site, and there is a lot of great content to be found here. Unfortunately, some of the aspects of the site have suffered with the diversification and growth.

 
Jets did deserve it, although now that he's gone legit he's done a great job of calling it like it is without homerism.I do post less in the Shark Pool because of the flames (ironic I know) but post more in the FFA and more overall.I'd say that there are new people here who see the kind of conversations that go on in the FFA and think it translates just as well in the SP. :no: However, part of my posting less in the Shark Pool is because a lot of good topical threads on the old board with the mods have now been replaced by articles. People talk about the articles in general, but for the most part you don't have the same quality discussions that were there before the articles came out.With that said, most of my legitimate postings in the Shark Pool occur preseason discussing drafting theories player analysis, and dynamic vbd. During the season there's not much to say. I don't ask others how to run my team, and really don't care about others' teams.Once we're in the offseason I'll talk about salary cap issues, another favorite topic of mine. Right now there's just not much to say.There's only so much I can take of people saying how they called their shot on certain players, what they need on Monday night, are trades collusion, and inane polls.Also it's like anything else when something is small and becomes big. On the yellow board we were a tight knit group as there was so few of us for most of the time there. This created more of a sense of togetherness of us against the world and getting the edge in fantasy football. As the group has grown, the tight knit group sees people they've known get flamed, so they'll flame back on the new guy.Also, so many of the older posters get tired of noobs not reading simple instructions and posting topics in the right forum. Many people don't know that originally the old board only had one forum, and eventually it had to be split. Essentially the entire board debated this process. We decided that it was in the best interest of the board to split everything up since good topics were being buried within 20 minutes. So when the old timers see crap put in the Shark Pool, we know how quickly good topics can be lost amoung the morass of crap. The fact that many people new to these boards don't appreciate this makes me feel that the new people don't care.Also, when questions are asked by a noob and I answer, very rarely will I get a thanks. Common courtesy is all I ask. This lack of it makes me less inclined to answer questions.So that's my reason.

 
If I post less frequently than I once did, it's not really because I "don't think it's worth it any more." It's more that my interest in FF and football in general is always competing with my interests in lots of other things. Sometimes that interest in football and sports-related hoo-ha dominates, sometimes it wanes, sometimes it flat out disappears from the picture. It's probably a cyclical thing, but I haven't bothered to chart it to find out. (And I'm counting on somebody to have the decency to step in and put a bullet in my head if I ever demonstrate a willingness to record my leisure time on a pie chart.)Right now, I'm feeling sort of ambivalent about the FF world. Running the teams is still fun, but community-wise, really, we can only re-invent the wheel so many times. How many years can you discuss, "Can Stud WR Theory Work?" without some creeping cynicism? There's a sort of Groundhog Day effect that renders a lot of the things that once fascinated me more or less impotent.The player discussions stay fresh, and NFL draft season ALWAYS gets my juices going. But most of the rest of it, I could take or leave, and more and more I find myself opting for the latter.On the other hand, these new smilies are boss! :nerd: :reg: :bag:

 
i dont know how many or even where people have come from but the researcher that i am i limit my stat analysis and conversation to this site only. i hear about rotoworld, fftoday, huddle, and some others but i never go to those places. sure, making the boards a "members only" courtesy might take our the riff raff but what happens when those same riff raff pay to be members????

i agree with the general setiment though that the free for all as been highly exaggerated compared to the old board and at times the shark pool as well but i dont think going pay will resolve this matter.

on a side note i have not seen some member names from Ole Yeller on the new Big Blue so i have no idea where they are, but it would be nice to know where people found out about this place. dont know if Joe might need to make another "Must Read" thread explaining the rules but the riff raff wont go away easily. i post more now but i have different motivations for doing so.
i am a riff raff paying member.you'll never get rid of me.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

 
I would have to agree with most of the main points here. I find myself lurking a lot more than posting these days (and even a lot less of that). As soon as I get into a post that reduces itself to namecalling and bashing, I click to a different thread. It used to be that if I clicked in 10 threads, I would find something useful in 8-9 of them. Now it is maybe 1-2 out of 10. Less value = less ROI = less time spent here as I can make better use of my limited resources elsewhere.I never thought I would say this but I do find myself looking at the names attached to the threads when determining if I should even open them. If I remember the name as an old school message boarder, I am much more apt to read the thread. There is a lot to be said about all the additional services being provided by this site, and there is a lot of great content to be found here. Unfortunately, some of the aspects of the site have suffered with the diversification and growth.
Thanks Zaphod. I'm honored.When do I get to move up in the Pyramid? :angry:
 
Even on the yellow board, the talk was significantly less interesting once the season rolled around. Factor in the news blogger, where anyone can access any scoop, and there simply is more information at everyone's fingertips. There are far fewer scoops/insider insights. The big recent scoop of Domanick Davis was nearly as much of a scoop to me because I live in Houston. I am much more interested in this board in March-August. At this point, many people have too much emotionally invested in either players they have/ players they missed to have an interesting conversation.

 
The quality of info posted on this board seems to be way down. Some people who actually had some inside info from people they knew from some NFL organization have left.There are still a lot of good posts made, there are also a lot more worthless ones from all the folks trying to raise their post totals.

 
With that said, most of my legitimate postings in the Shark Pool occur preseason discussing drafting theories player analysis, and dynamic vbd. During the season there's not much to say. I don't ask others how to run my team, and really don't care about others' teams.
Amen.
 
I do not post very much at all anymore. I read alot, but like someone said earlier, alot of the information and analysis is contained in the subscriber material and the analysis in the Shark Pool can sometimes be lacking comparitively. Anyway, because newbies are probably reading this, I'll ask for them...What is VBD? :rotflmao:

 
I am much more interested in this board in March-August. At this point, many people have too much emotionally invested in either players they have/ players they missed to have an interesting conversation.
Very good point.You see that every year though.
 
I'm still here! It seems about the same to me ... maybe a few more meaningless posts. I remember quite a few threads that would turn into pissing contests! How about all the "I've got a lower FBGs number" garbage posts last year? Now no one seems to care about that.Best to all.P.S. Different name (CalculatedRisk in the old old days, then CDMChampion last year)

 
I would have to agree with most of the main points here. I find myself lurking a lot more than posting these days (and even a lot less of that). As soon as I get into a post that reduces itself to namecalling and bashing, I click to a different thread. It used to be that if I clicked in 10 threads, I would find something useful in 8-9 of them. Now it is maybe 1-2 out of 10. Less value = less ROI = less time spent here as I can make better use of my limited resources elsewhere.I never thought I would say this but I do find myself looking at the names attached to the threads when determining if I should even open them. If I remember the name as an old school message boarder, I am much more apt to read the thread. There is a lot to be said about all the additional services being provided by this site, and there is a lot of great content to be found here. Unfortunately, some of the aspects of the site have suffered with the diversification and growth.
Thanks Zaphod. I'm honored.When do I get to move up in the Pyramid? :angry:
As soon as your check clears ;)
 
The popularity of fantasy football is probably to blame as well.Many people are into the NFL because of fantasy football. So you'll see Dennis Erickson or Mike Tice called a moron for using a RBBC however effective it is. I know I've seen threads calling for Jim Haslett's head because he didn't call hardly and running plays, when the team was getting blown out and the run was completely ineffective. I've been using this site since cheatsheets.net but did not feel the need to post. Now I find myself dumbfounded sometimes by the things people post, so much that I actually post more now.And can people stop calling me a guppy at the drop of a hat. Different league have different rules, drafting a QB in the first round does not = guppy, neither does playing the wrong matchup.

 
I have been coming here for a few years. I have never been a big poster to begin with simply because you can only say so many things so many ways. Usually when i see something I find interesting my point of view has already been expressed. How somebody feels about me and my opinion when I have and probably never will have any personal contact with the disgreeing party doesn't concern me at all. I still find this site very useful and the boards are a lot of fun but it's all been said and done so I wind up just reading about it. Pretty much why I don't post much.But some of you are pretty funny and I find myself laughing a lot. I think those who feel they get "flamed" need to just laugh a bit and check the next post. You'll get the answers you're looking for. :football:

 
For me, it has come down to the most vocal posters are always pimping "their" guys. They will not admit failure on a player drafted in the fourth round. They skewer a poster with "inside info" for having the audacity to post contrary to their player.

We, myself included, have moved from analyzing players in an impartial manner to flaming people who disagree. I mean, really, why are we so heated over Onterrio Smith vs. Moe and Dom. Davis vs. Hollings vs. RBBC? It is not as though passion on one side will make it happen.

I guess the part that I dislike with the most is the flaming of posters who have good, reliable info. That info is something we take for granted instead of taking advantage of the info before it is made known publicly.

But, I enjoy the board for thought-provoking material. That is why I am a proud, happy, subscriber.

 
For newbies, VBD is a style of drafting. It stands for Voraciously based drafting. You want a team that is voracious. Main Entry: vo·ra·cious Pronunciation: vo-'rA-sh&s, v&-Function: adjectiveEtymology: Latin vorac-, vorax, from vorare to devour; akin to Old English Acweorran to guzzle, Latin gurges whirlpool, Greek bibrOskein to devourDate: 16351 : having a huge appetite : RAVENOUS2 : excessively eager : INSATIABLE <a voracious reader>- vo·ra·cious·ly adverb- vo·ra·cious·ness nounIf you draft a team of hungry and excessively eager players there is no doubt you will rule all of Yahoo.Good Luck.

 
For me, it has come down to the most vocal posters are always pimping "their" guys. They will not admit failure on a player drafted in the fourth round. They skewer a poster with "inside info" for having the audacity to post contrary to their player.

We, myself included, have moved from analyzing players in an impartial manner to flaming people who disagree. I mean, really, why are we so heated over Onterrio Smith vs. Moe and Dom. Davis vs. Hollings vs. RBBC? It is not as though passion on one side will make it happen.

I guess the part that I dislike with the most is the flaming of posters who have good, reliable info. That info is something we take for granted instead of taking advantage of the info before it is made known publicly.

But, I enjoy the board for thought-provoking material. That is why I am a proud, happy, subscriber.
Just to let it be known, that my 4th round pick of Antowain Smith in the Survivor II draft sucked.As did my 8th round pick of Larry Johnson.

:thumbdown:

 
For newbies, VBD is a style of drafting. It stands for Voraciously based drafting. You want a team that is voracious. Main Entry: vo·ra·cious Pronunciation: vo-'rA-sh&s, v&-Function: adjectiveEtymology: Latin vorac-, vorax, from vorare to devour; akin to Old English Acweorran to guzzle, Latin gurges whirlpool, Greek bibrOskein to devourDate: 16351 : having a huge appetite : RAVENOUS2 : excessively eager : INSATIABLE <a voracious reader>- vo·ra·cious·ly adverb- vo·ra·cious·ness nounIf you draft a team of hungry and excessively eager players there is no doubt you will rule all of Yahoo.Good Luck.
and the night at the improv begins. :wall:
 
I am much more interested in this board in March-August. At this point, many people have too much emotionally invested in either players they have/ players they missed to have an interesting conversation.
:thumbup: MBC (message board credibility, i.e. someone who articulates their thought, idea or info without trying to prove that they have a bigger johnson than the next guy) actually means something to me and i respect opinions from those guys over the pissing contests that occur frequently (see any o smith thread)...having said that though, i do enjoy reading threads in the shark pool about WDIS, or should i start so-in-so eventhough he's on a bye...it's kinda, like, watching a train wreck that's about to happen...
 
The popularity of fantasy football is probably to blame as well.
I think this is a big part of it. Years ago I'd mention that I played fantasy football and people would ask what it was. Now I mention it and they ask who I've got, how I'm doing, etc... It used to be somewhat mystic now it's mainstream.
 
:thumbup: MBC (message board credibility, i.e. someone who articulates their thought, idea or info without trying to prove that they have a bigger johnson than the next guy) actually means something to me and i respect opinions from those guys over the pissing contests that occur frequently (see any o smith thread)...having said that though, i do enjoy reading threads in the shark pool about WDIS, or should i start so-in-so eventhough he's on a bye...it's kinda, like, watching a train wreck that's about to happen...
lmao @ MBC.was that Zaphod who did that post a few months back? :thumbup:
 
I have to agree with some of the earlier sentiments. I've been an avid fan of VBD for many years, including the "Yellow Board" era. Most of my posts are made June-September during player discussion or various types of drafting techniques.The value I get out of this site is some of the stats and other information, that I don't always have the time to track down. Ken and Doug have really done a great job in getting information and posting stats on various questions. That's value-add if you ask me.Of all the posts this year that I've followed, I think the most influential was posted in August regarding the thought process on ZVBD and the similarities and contrasts to dynamic VBD and other drafting techniques.Great discussion!By nature, I like to lurk... maybe that's why all the women stop walking around my neighborhood.... :rotflmao:

 
This is the only FF board I read or post in, but I do participate in other message board communities unrelated to football. What's happened/happening here is not unique, nor is it nearly as bad as in other message board communities. Some other boards (like those of the EZ Board Splinterverse, loosely born from the CBS series "Survivor") have documented their histories in codices, pinpointing the beginnings of their own downward spiral in the fossilized flames of Yesterday's posts.If there's a rule for message boards (IMO), its: What once was small, insular and focused will either, a) die out, or, b) evolve/grow (and lose its focus). Sorry, there is no "Option C" of remaining the same. A shark not in motion is a dead shark, to paraphrase Woody Allen.The best you can hope for, message-board-wise, is to maintain a certain level of intelligent, On Topic debate amid a growing din of knee-jerkers and flame-throwers. It's a battle I see FBG winning.I can attest that the quality of content on this board is as good as I've found anywhere on the 'net, and I strive to make my own posts here worthy of inclusion...or funny enough to bother wasting the precious bandwidth. We're all here because of our commonality: we all enjoy professional football enough to participate in an ancillary game built around it. Chances are we've all met with both successes and failures along the way. Hopefully, you and your leaguemates enjoy friendly banter around the (real or virtual) watercooler, and everyone enjoys themselves, win or lose. This board is just an extension (and, for some, an enhancement) of that experience. I would be disappointed if all the smacktalk disappeared from here, since that's much of what I enjoy about team sports, games in general...and message boards.It's a game, folks. Have fun or take up knitting. :football:

 
I think the difference is that there are a lot more Jets94-like posts...And the board is responding in kind...

 
For newbies, VBD is a style of drafting. It stands for Voraciously based drafting. You want a team that is voracious. Main Entry: vo·ra·cious Pronunciation: vo-'rA-sh&s, v&-Function: adjectiveEtymology: Latin vorac-, vorax, from vorare to devour; akin to Old English Acweorran to guzzle, Latin gurges whirlpool, Greek bibrOskein to devourDate: 16351 : having a huge appetite : RAVENOUS2 : excessively eager : INSATIABLE <a voracious reader>- vo·ra·cious·ly adverb- vo·ra·cious·ness nounIf you draft a team of hungry and excessively eager players there is no doubt you will rule all of Yahoo.Good Luck.
and the night at the improv begins. :wall:
Easy SandBagger. Another reason I come to this board is a good laugh. Many of the posters have a very good sense of humor and I get a kick out of reading their input. Yes, it may have nothing to do with fantasy football, but I would venture that fun is part of the overall experience... so relax a little. Oh Crap that is two posts this afternoon. I have to go do something more constructive.
 
Come on, Jets94 had some great stuff - and obviously way too much time on his hands.We bashed Jets94 because he was such a blind hopeless homer (and he deserved it).Wasn't he going to college? Anyone know if he flunked out because he spent too much time on Fantasy Football analyses?
LOL,Rumor has it he is doing just fine at a certain school once known for its fabulous football program but now beholden to an old, outdated coaching institution by the name of JoePa.You realize of course that Jets94=Chase Stuart, a fellow staff member, right?Cheers
Yes, I do, and I know that he did start college at Penn State - just wondered whether he quit to make his fortune playing in money leagues, flunked out, or succeeded in spite of his addiction! (and homerism)
 
I think I post jsut as much as I did on the Yellow board, and my trend was and still is to stick to the FFA during the offseason and the SP for the season, but I agree with many things posted here.1) A lot of the terrific content that came out of the yellow boards threads are incorporated into the pay info and articles2) I do mostly only look and read threads started or commented upon by certain posters that have been around and whose opinion I respect. Call it board cred, call it yello bias, whatever. 3) I do think a lot of these threads needlessly devolve into namecalling and chest thumping. I remember it happenign around this time of the year on the yellow boards as well, and I can't say I'm totally above the fray, but there seems to be a lot more fluff being discussed and a lot less substance. I remember well the time when fishing was an artform rather than the norm. STC

 
For newbies, VBD is a style of drafting. It stands for Voraciously based drafting. You want a team that is voracious. Main Entry: vo·ra·cious Pronunciation: vo-'rA-sh&s, v&-Function: adjectiveEtymology: Latin vorac-, vorax, from vorare to devour; akin to Old English Acweorran to guzzle, Latin gurges whirlpool, Greek bibrOskein to devourDate: 16351 : having a huge appetite : RAVENOUS2 : excessively eager : INSATIABLE <a voracious reader>- vo·ra·cious·ly adverb- vo·ra·cious·ness nounIf you draft a team of hungry and excessively eager players there is no doubt you will rule all of Yahoo.Good Luck.
Who's Hungry? Brian Urlacher, of course. :ph34r:
 
:thumbup: MBC (message board credibility, i.e. someone who articulates their thought, idea or info without trying to prove that they have a bigger johnson than the next guy) actually means something to me and i respect opinions from those guys over the pissing contests that occur frequently (see any o smith thread)...having said that though, i do enjoy reading threads in the shark pool about WDIS, or should i start so-in-so eventhough he's on a bye...it's kinda, like, watching a train wreck that's about to happen...
lmao @ MBC.was that Zaphod who did that post a few months back? :thumbup:
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: LOFLYeah, that was me...although I didn't factor in the 'bigger johnson' criteria in rev 1.0
 
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