Yet another Pitt Bull attack (2 Viewers)

[Chaos Commish]

FTR I agree with the fact that there is a Pit Bull problem, but I am still waiting to hear a legitimate solution conversation.

Ok, here's a legitimate conversation. I don't have a problem with making Pit Bull owners strictly liable for damages. If their dogs never bite anyone and are the sweet, well behaved dogs that posters have said they can be, there's no problem. If they eat a little kid, the owners are liable.

I'm pretty sure the last two death by dog maulings in this country were at the hands of a cute furry Shepherd/Lab mix with no sign of Pitty and a Rhodesian Ridgeback. That was a month or so ago, so maybe I missed something, but either way, your legitimate conversation isn't legitimate when your approach is breed specific. I'd rather be attacked by a pitty than a dozen other breeds.

So your first attempt at legit discussion is rejected for common sense and you roll eyes. I thought I was obviously referencing this comment by someone who asked for legitimate solutions.

After Pitbulls all gone we can televise the elections for the next official breed of dumb###es. We'll make millions.

You said you'd rather be attacked by a pit bull than 12 other breeds. That kind of invalidates any other argument you may have.

Your ignorance is understandable and common but still ignorance. Chaka's point is the fools will pick another breed. Pit Bulls are so overhyped in regards to their physical abilities that it's a little funny to people who've been around many other bully breeds and guardian dogs. I know a Boz Shepherd protecting a flock of milk goats outside of SLO, Ca that has killed two pit bulls in the same night two different times. One time the owner said the fight lasted all of two minutes and both little pitties were dead.I'm not numbering these, but these are all breeds far nastier than little pitties that are already on the drug dealer radar:

Boz

Kangal

Presa

Tosa

Fila

Dogo

Ovchartka

 

[TexanFan02]

FTR I agree with the fact that there is a Pit Bull problem, but I am still waiting to hear a legitimate solution conversation.

Ok, here's a legitimate conversation. I don't have a problem with making Pit Bull owners strictly liable for damages. If their dogs never bite anyone and are the sweet, well behaved dogs that posters have said they can be, there's no problem. If they eat a little kid, the owners are liable.

I'm pretty sure the last two death by dog maulings in this country were at the hands of a cute furry Shepherd/Lab mix with no sign of Pitty and a Rhodesian Ridgeback. That was a month or so ago, so maybe I missed something, but either way, your legitimate conversation isn't legitimate when your approach is breed specific. I'd rather be attacked by a pitty than a dozen other breeds.

So your first attempt at legit discussion is rejected for common sense and you roll eyes. I thought I was obviously referencing this comment by someone who asked for legitimate solutions.

After Pitbulls all gone we can televise the elections for the next official breed of dumb###es. We'll make millions.

You said you'd rather be attacked by a pit bull than 12 other breeds. That kind of invalidates any other argument you may have.

Your ignorance is understandable and common but still ignorance. Chaka's point is the fools will pick another breed. Pit Bulls are so overhyped in regards to their physical abilities that it's a little funny to people who've been around many other bully breeds and guardian dogs. I know a Boz Shepherd protecting a flock of milk goats outside of SLO, Ca that has killed two pit bulls in the same night two different times. One time the owner said the fight lasted all of two minutes and both little pitties were dead.I'm not numbering these, but these are all breeds far nastier than little pitties that are already on the drug dealer radar:

Boz

Kangal

Presa

Tosa

Fila

Dogo

Ovchartka

I've never even heard of those dogs, so they must not be killing babies and old people enough to get on the news.

 

[Chaos Commish]

FTR I agree with the fact that there is a Pit Bull problem, but I am still waiting to hear a legitimate solution conversation.

Ok, here's a legitimate conversation. I don't have a problem with making Pit Bull owners strictly liable for damages. If their dogs never bite anyone and are the sweet, well behaved dogs that posters have said they can be, there's no problem. If they eat a little kid, the owners are liable.

I'm pretty sure the last two death by dog maulings in this country were at the hands of a cute furry Shepherd/Lab mix with no sign of Pitty and a Rhodesian Ridgeback. That was a month or so ago, so maybe I missed something, but either way, your legitimate conversation isn't legitimate when your approach is breed specific. I'd rather be attacked by a pitty than a dozen other breeds.

So your first attempt at legit discussion is rejected for common sense and you roll eyes. I thought I was obviously referencing this comment by someone who asked for legitimate solutions.

After Pitbulls all gone we can televise the elections for the next official breed of dumb###es. We'll make millions.

You said you'd rather be attacked by a pit bull than 12 other breeds. That kind of invalidates any other argument you may have.

Your ignorance is understandable and common but still ignorance. Chaka's point is the fools will pick another breed. Pit Bulls are so overhyped in regards to their physical abilities that it's a little funny to people who've been around many other bully breeds and guardian dogs. I know a Boz Shepherd protecting a flock of milk goats outside of SLO, Ca that has killed two pit bulls in the same night two different times. One time the owner said the fight lasted all of two minutes and both little pitties were dead.I'm not numbering these, but these are all breeds far nastier than little pitties that are already on the drug dealer radar:

Boz

Kangal

Presa

Tosa

Fila

Dogo

Kutta

Spanish Mastiff

Bull Mastiff

Mastiff

Ovchartka

Kuvasz

Sarplaninac

These are huge dogs with the same catch dog genetics as little pitties or they're livestock guardians known for killing wolves, humans, anything that threatens the flock.

Rotties and American Bulldogs are bigger, more powerful, hit harder, maul as aggressively and hang just as tough as pitties.

You'd have a better chance with a pit than a determined Akbash or Anatolian or that matter. Then there's a whole world of pit and staffy mixes out there where the other gene pool was added for more aggressiveness or size.

 

[Chaka]

FTR I agree with the fact that there is a Pit Bull problem, but I am still waiting to hear a legitimate solution conversation.

Ok, here's a legitimate conversation. I don't have a problem with making Pit Bull owners strictly liable for damages. If their dogs never bite anyone and are the sweet, well behaved dogs that posters have said they can be, there's no problem. If they eat a little kid, the owners are liable.

I'm pretty sure the last two death by dog maulings in this country were at the hands of a cute furry Shepherd/Lab mix with no sign of Pitty and a Rhodesian Ridgeback. That was a month or so ago, so maybe I missed something, but either way, your legitimate conversation isn't legitimate when your approach is breed specific. I'd rather be attacked by a pitty than a dozen other breeds.

So your first attempt at legit discussion is rejected for common sense and you roll eyes. I thought I was obviously referencing this comment by someone who asked for legitimate solutions.

After Pitbulls all gone we can televise the elections for the next official breed of dumb###es. We'll make millions.

You said you'd rather be attacked by a pit bull than 12 other breeds. That kind of invalidates any other argument you may have.

Your ignorance is understandable and common but still ignorance. Chaka's point is the fools will pick another breed. Pit Bulls are so overhyped in regards to their physical abilities that it's a little funny to people who've been around many other bully breeds and guardian dogs. I know a Boz Shepherd protecting a flock of milk goats outside of SLO, Ca that has killed two pit bulls in the same night two different times. One time the owner said the fight lasted all of two minutes and both little pitties were dead.I'm not numbering these, but these are all breeds far nastier than little pitties that are already on the drug dealer radar:

Boz

Kangal

Presa

Tosa

Fila

Dogo

Ovchartka

I've never even heard of those dogs, so they must not be killing babies and old people enough to get on the news.

Keep getting rid of the 'dangerous breeds' and eventually you will have heard of all of them.

 

[Chaos Commish]

FTR I agree with the fact that there is a Pit Bull problem, but I am still waiting to hear a legitimate solution conversation.

Ok, here's a legitimate conversation. I don't have a problem with making Pit Bull owners strictly liable for damages. If their dogs never bite anyone and are the sweet, well behaved dogs that posters have said they can be, there's no problem. If they eat a little kid, the owners are liable.

I'm pretty sure the last two death by dog maulings in this country were at the hands of a cute furry Shepherd/Lab mix with no sign of Pitty and a Rhodesian Ridgeback. That was a month or so ago, so maybe I missed something, but either way, your legitimate conversation isn't legitimate when your approach is breed specific. I'd rather be attacked by a pitty than a dozen other breeds.

So your first attempt at legit discussion is rejected for common sense and you roll eyes. I thought I was obviously referencing this comment by someone who asked for legitimate solutions.

After Pitbulls all gone we can televise the elections for the next official breed of dumb###es. We'll make millions.

You said you'd rather be attacked by a pit bull than 12 other breeds. That kind of invalidates any other argument you may have.

Your ignorance is understandable and common but still ignorance. Chaka's point is the fools will pick another breed. Pit Bulls are so overhyped in regards to their physical abilities that it's a little funny to people who've been around many other bully breeds and guardian dogs. I know a Boz Shepherd protecting a flock of milk goats outside of SLO, Ca that has killed two pit bulls in the same night two different times. One time the owner said the fight lasted all of two minutes and both little pitties were dead.I'm not numbering these, but these are all breeds far nastier than little pitties that are already on the drug dealer radar:

Boz

Kangal

Presa

Tosa

Fila

Dogo

Ovchartka

I've never even heard of those dogs, so they must not be killing babies and old people enough to get on the news.

Thanks for admitting ignorance. Now consider Chaka's point. The fools will pick another breed.Practically every Presa, Dogo, Am Bulldog and bulldog mix attack is reported as a pitty.

The biggest problem with the pit bull issue is not the breed but the population. Thus you were ignorant of more dangerous dogs. They are not as popular. You cannot ban them all. They will just make beasts from the boar dog mongrels in Australia. Hah. Those guys make fun of Pitties that try to tangle with some of their larger creations.

The conversation cannot be breed specific. If that's the only discussion you can have, it's fear mongering. Quit worrying about pit bulls and start worrying about the lab that just killed a kid, and the amazing population of pitties in this country. If we had as many German Shepherds, they'd lead the way in maulings. We once did and they once did.

 

[Clinton]

I'm not numbering these, but these are all breeds far nastier than little pitties that are already on the drug dealer radar:

Boz

Kangal

Presa

Tosa

Fila

Dogo

Kutta

Spanish Mastiff

Bull Mastiff

Mastiff

Ovchartka

Kuvasz

Sarplaninac

These are huge dogs with the same catch dog genetics as little pitties or they're livestock guardians known for killing wolves, humans, anything that threatens the flock.

This happened just last week...Baby's first birthday party turns to tragedy when he is killed by family's mastiff dog

A baby boy has died after he was attacked by his family’s mastiff dog during his first birthday party. A day after turning one, Jeremiah Eshew-Shahan was at his grandmother’s house in Las Vegas when he crawled over to the dog – a mastiff-rhodesian mix weighing about 120 pounds – and started to pet him. The dog then attacked the baby, sinking his teeth into Jeremiah’s head and shaking him. The boy’s distraught father, Chris Shahan, believes Jeremiah, who was just learning to walk, tried to grab the dog’s fur to stand up when the animal turned vicious.

 

[beavers]

Friends in the neighborhood rescued a pit that was chained to a tree for a year. My daughter and I won't be visiting any time soon. The pit bit my friend in the ###. Mike Vick started eradicating pits... Maybe Marcus will finish the job.

 

[Charlie Frown]

FTR I agree with the fact that there is a Pit Bull problem, but I am still waiting to hear a legitimate solution conversation.

Ok, here's a legitimate conversation. I don't have a problem with making Pit Bull owners strictly liable for damages. If their dogs never bite anyone and are the sweet, well behaved dogs that posters have said they can be, there's no problem. If they eat a little kid, the owners are liable.

I'm pretty sure the last two death by dog maulings in this country were at the hands of a cute furry Shepherd/Lab mix with no sign of Pitty and a Rhodesian Ridgeback. That was a month or so ago, so maybe I missed something, but either way, your legitimate conversation isn't legitimate when your approach is breed specific. I'd rather be attacked by a pitty than a dozen other breeds.

All at once? Who gets to pick the 12 breeds?

 

[Charlie Frown]

Kinda blown away that a person could actually advocate genocide against a certain breed of dog. Some of you guys would have made great Aryans.

"We brought them into this world, we can take them out!"Actually is considered 'genocide' or just extinction? I don't think you can commit genocide against an animal. Not sure though.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

 

[Chaka]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

Do you honestly not understand the differences between the animals you are comparing? You cannot domesticate any of the animal species you listed. Even the vast majority of domestication attempts for chimps fail.

 

[-jb-]

BozKangalPresaTosaFilaDogoKuttaSpanish MastiffBull MastiffMastiffOvchartkaKuvaszSarplaninac

holy crap those things are huge

 

[TexanFan02]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

Do you honestly not understand the differences between the animals you are comparing? You cannot domesticate any of the animal species you listed. Even the vast majority of domestication attempts for chimps fail.

Seems like you can't reliably domesticate Pits either. There's always that urge to kill just waiting to come out.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

Do you honestly not understand the differences between the animals you are comparing? You cannot domesticate any of the animal species you listed. Even the vast majority of domestication attempts for chimps fail.

Seems like you can't reliably domesticate Pits either. There's always that urge to kill just waiting to come out.

oh snap

 

[Chaka]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

Do you honestly not understand the differences between the animals you are comparing? You cannot domesticate any of the animal species you listed. Even the vast majority of domestication attempts for chimps fail.

Seems like you can't reliably domesticate Pits either. There's always that urge to kill just waiting to come out.

I expected a response like this but you would be wrong about that too, you know that but you won't admit it so I won't try too hard to get you to.

 

[flapgreen]

Of all things, I was on the way home driving home from work today and saw a guy walking a Pit. Fat dude had on a pair of shorts, a winder breaker jacket, and no shirt.

 

[modogg]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

Jaguars, Cheetahs, and Lynx's = yesChimpanzees - no, but would consider Gorillas because they are cuterand lions, don't be silly. They are dangerous

 

[TexanFan02]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

Jaguars, Cheetahs, and Lynx's = yesChimpanzees - no, but would consider Gorillas because they are cuterand lions, don't be silly. They are dangerous

 

[TexanFan02]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

Do you honestly not understand the differences between the animals you are comparing? You cannot domesticate any of the animal species you listed. Even the vast majority of domestication attempts for chimps fail.

Seems like you can't reliably domesticate Pits either. There's always that urge to kill just waiting to come out.

I expected a response like this but you would be wrong about that too, you know that but you won't admit it so I won't try too hard to get you to.

Keep being wrong. It's cute.

 

[Charlie Frown]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

I would rather face any of these over a Chimp. Everything else will just eat you. I have seen what chimps can do. They will #### you up and make you wish you were just dead.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

I would rather face any of these over a Chimp. Everything else will just eat you. I have seen what chimps can do. They will #### you up and make you wish you were just dead.

I think a solid argument can be made that a lynx is far less dangerous than a pitbull. A north american Lynx weighs about 20 pounds.

 

[Chairshot]

Are owners of any breed currently not liable if there dog injures or kills someone? I am asking because I don't know. Why wouldn't tougher laws or stiffer penalties include all dogs?

In many, many municipalities there are no laws that hold owners responsible if their dog hurts or kills someone. That's why we have these conversations over pit bull bans. Most communities don't have any dangerous dog laws to speak of - or if they do, it's little more than a slap on the wrist.

 

[Chairshot]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

Get back to me when someone spends 200 years breeding and domesticating any of these animals, like we have with dogs and cats. Then we can compare apples to apples.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

Get back to me when someone spends 200 years breeding and domesticating any of these animals, like we have with dogs and cats. Then we can compare apples to apples.

A: No. Nobody would be okay with those animals.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

Get back to me when someone spends 200 years breeding and domesticating any of these animals, like we have with dogs and cats. Then we can compare apples to apples.

Since pit bulls haven't been around for 200 years, is that why there are so many attacks?

 

[Chairshot]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

Get back to me when someone spends 200 years breeding and domesticating any of these animals, like we have with dogs and cats. Then we can compare apples to apples.

Since pit bulls haven't been around for 200 years, is that why there are so many attacks?

You can trace the history of pit bulls and other Mastiff type dogs back to before the founding of the United States.All domesticated animals started out as wild animals. Attempting to use the argument (if you can even call it that) about lions, chimps, etc displays a tragic level of ignorance.Pit bulls, like any other dog, have been bred down over hundreds of years to be domesticated. No matter what you think of pit bulls in particular, domesticated dogs are nothing like wild animals.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

Get back to me when someone spends 200 years breeding and domesticating any of these animals, like we have with dogs and cats. Then we can compare apples to apples.

Since pit bulls haven't been around for 200 years, is that why there are so many attacks?

You can trace the history of pit bulls and other Mastiff type dogs back to before the founding of the United States.All domesticated animals started out as wild animals. Attempting to use the argument (if you can even call it that) about lions, chimps, etc displays a tragic level of ignorance.Pit bulls, like any other dog, have been bred down over hundreds of years to be domesticated. No matter what you think of pit bulls in particular, domesticated dogs are nothing like wild animals.

Just out of curiosity, what were pit bulls bred for say 175 years ago when bear and bull baiting became illegal and when Pit Bull terriers first became a breed?It would appear to me that you and I have different definitions of "hundreds of years" and "to be domesticated" but to each his own I guess.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I am sure this has been covered, but would the pit bull supporters in this thread support legal ownership of pet lions? Jaguars? Lynx? Cheetahs? Chimpanzees?

Get back to me when someone spends 200 years breeding and domesticating any of these animals, like we have with dogs and cats. Then we can compare apples to apples.

Since pit bulls haven't been around for 200 years, is that why there are so many attacks?

You can trace the history of pit bulls and other Mastiff type dogs back to before the founding of the United States.All domesticated animals started out as wild animals. Attempting to use the argument (if you can even call it that) about lions, chimps, etc displays a tragic level of ignorance.Pit bulls, like any other dog, have been bred down over hundreds of years to be domesticated. No matter what you think of pit bulls in particular, domesticated dogs are nothing like wild animals.

Domestication hasnt taken hold of the Pitbull as much as anyone would like. Similar attempts have been made to fully domesticate other breeds of animals with very similar results.

 

[Chairshot]

Domestication hasnt taken hold of the Pitbull as much as anyone would like. Similar attempts have been made to fully domesticate other breeds of animals with very similar results.

Mine can sit, stay, shake hands, play fetch and a whole bunch of other cool stuff. They also lick peoples faces. They feel pretty domesticated to me.If a person can't see the difference between any domesticated dog and a lion, I'm not sure what to tell them.

 

[Chairshot]

Just out of curiosity, what were pit bulls bred for say 175 years ago when bear and bull baiting became illegal and when Pit Bull terriers first became a breed?It would appear to me that you and I have different definitions of "hundreds of years" and "to be domesticated" but to each his own I guess.

I'm not sure I totally understand your question because it seems like it's worded pretty poorly. I'm guessing you are asking what pit bulls have been used for in the past and I'm guessing the answer you are looking for is dog fighting.What a dog is used for is different than what traits it's bred for. Pit bulls have traditionally been bred to be strong, fearless, obedient, loyal and intelligent. They have not been bred for aggression towards humans. In fact, when these dogs were being bred for fighting, any that showed signs of human aggression were culled. They wanted big, strong dogs that would have strong loyalty and obedience, so they would do exactly what they were told to do - in that case fighting. No one was trying to bred a vicious killer that would have the tendency to turn on their owners. That would make zero sense for the owner to breed for.Those traits carry over in good ways. Loyalty, obedience and intelligence are traits an owner would want in any dog. What you have now is many people breeding them badly and then treating them badly. That's a recipe for disaster for any big, strong dog.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Domestication hasnt taken hold of the Pitbull as much as anyone would like. Similar attempts have been made to fully domesticate other breeds of animals with very similar results.

Mine can sit, stay, shake hands, play fetch and a whole bunch of other cool stuff. They also lick peoples faces. They feel pretty domesticated to me.If a person can't see the difference between any domesticated dog and a lion, I'm not sure what to tell them.

Yours is an anecdote. Ive been around pitbulls quite a bit. None of them have ever been problematic. That's my anecdotal evidence.But go ahead and google "pit bull attack" every day. Its appalling. Same as the statistical number of attacks and severity of those attacks.And I am sure there have been plenty of lion and bear owners that never had any issues whatsoever.

 

[steelerfan1]

have owned the breed since 92 with no problems, but people with either love the breed or hate the breed. not much of an in between.

the breed itself was around for years and rarely anything was heard about them until the 80's when they were introduced to millions on tv as the toughest dog ever.

that in turn put them in the hands of tons of people who shouldn't have them and we now have what we have now.

like many say here, if/when the breed is gone, there will be another 1 to come along and we will then be complaining about that type, and so on, and so on.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Just out of curiosity, what were pit bulls bred for say 175 years ago when bear and bull baiting became illegal and when Pit Bull terriers first became a breed?It would appear to me that you and I have different definitions of "hundreds of years" and "to be domesticated" but to each his own I guess.

I'm not sure I totally understand your question because it seems like it's worded pretty poorly. I'm guessing you are asking what pit bulls have been used for in the past and I'm guessing the answer you are looking for is dog fighting.What a dog is used for is different than what traits it's bred for. Pit bulls have traditionally been bred to be strong, fearless, obedient, loyal and intelligent. They have not been bred for aggression towards humans. In fact, when these dogs were being bred for fighting, any that showed signs of human aggression were culled. They wanted big, strong dogs that would have strong loyalty and obedience, so they would do exactly what they were told to do - in that case fighting. No one was trying to bred a vicious killer that would have the tendency to turn on their owners. That would make zero sense for the owner to breed for.Those traits carry over in good ways. Loyalty, obedience and intelligence are traits an owner would want in any dog. What you have now is many people breeding them badly and then treating them badly. That's a recipe for disaster for any big, strong dog.

After bull baiting fell out of favor they decided to cross breed the dogs with terriers to make them more aggressive. Rat baiting was one of the reasons for this. Pit bulls were very effective because they could crush, shake, kill and move on to a new rat very quickly. Obviously dog fighting became very popular as well. If owners and only the owners were the only things ever attacked by pit bulls I don't think anybody would care much. So who cares if they don't attack their owners because they are loyal? They obviously have zero issues attacking other things or other people or innocent children. Their breeding to bite, crush, and shake believe it or not has a pretty bad effect on small children. But go on believing that pit bulls have been bred for hundreds of years to be domesticated dogs. This is a false belief since it has only been since around 1835 and the breed was specifically bred to be killing machines. But hey, who cares about that because your dog is great. I have zero doubts that you spent a lot of effort training your dog and are a great owner. You probably dont need to carry a break stick.Doesn't change the fact that your conclusions about the breed are dead wrong. I don't support eradication of the breed, but I definitely support strict laws regarding them.

 

[Chairshot]

Domestication hasnt taken hold of the Pitbull as much as anyone would like. Similar attempts have been made to fully domesticate other breeds of animals with very similar results.

Mine can sit, stay, shake hands, play fetch and a whole bunch of other cool stuff. They also lick peoples faces. They feel pretty domesticated to me.If a person can't see the difference between any domesticated dog and a lion, I'm not sure what to tell them.

Yours is an anecdote. Ive been around pitbulls quite a bit. None of them have ever been problematic. That's my anecdotal evidence.But go ahead and google "pit bull attack" every day. Its appalling. Same as the statistical number of attacks and severity of those attacks.And I am sure there have been plenty of lion and bear owners that never had any issues whatsoever.

Trust me, I've done lots and lots of research on the subject. I've educated myself as best as I can. There is no doubt that when a pit bull attacks the damage can be severe. But pit bulls are hardly alone in being a large, strong dog.There is plenty of evidence that the temperament of pit bulls as a breed is as good or better than many popular breeds, perhaps that's been brought up in this thread before, I haven't read every post. I agree that my experiences are anecdotal, but if this breed were truly inherently dangerous, we would have far, far more pit bull attacks. There are millions upon millions of pit bulls out there yet the bite and even the death statistics are miniscule. Logic dictates that if the breed were really dangerous at it's core then the number of attacks would be far higher than it is. The statistical number of attacks really don't take into account how many pit bulls there are out there. The data also can't tell us if a dog is being accurately identified as a pit bull (which, by the way, isn't even truly a breed of dog, but that's a whole different issue). Additionally, the data doesn't take into account the countless dog bites that aren't reported. There is also a complete lack of statistical data that shows that removing pit bulls from an town or city makes the city any safer. While I don't ignore the bite data that is out there, it has to be taken with a huge grain of salt as it's very far from complete.

 

[parasaurolophus]

http://dogbitelaw.com/images/pdf/Dog_Attacks_1982-2006_Clifton.pdf

Not sure if this has been posted in here or not. Pretty eye opening data.

 

[Chairshot]

Just out of curiosity, what were pit bulls bred for say 175 years ago when bear and bull baiting became illegal and when Pit Bull terriers first became a breed?It would appear to me that you and I have different definitions of "hundreds of years" and "to be domesticated" but to each his own I guess.

I'm not sure I totally understand your question because it seems like it's worded pretty poorly. I'm guessing you are asking what pit bulls have been used for in the past and I'm guessing the answer you are looking for is dog fighting.What a dog is used for is different than what traits it's bred for. Pit bulls have traditionally been bred to be strong, fearless, obedient, loyal and intelligent. They have not been bred for aggression towards humans. In fact, when these dogs were being bred for fighting, any that showed signs of human aggression were culled. They wanted big, strong dogs that would have strong loyalty and obedience, so they would do exactly what they were told to do - in that case fighting. No one was trying to bred a vicious killer that would have the tendency to turn on their owners. That would make zero sense for the owner to breed for.Those traits carry over in good ways. Loyalty, obedience and intelligence are traits an owner would want in any dog. What you have now is many people breeding them badly and then treating them badly. That's a recipe for disaster for any big, strong dog.

After bull baiting fell out of favor they decided to cross breed the dogs with terriers to make them more aggressive. Rat baiting was one of the reasons for this. Pit bulls were very effective because they could crush, shake, kill and move on to a new rat very quickly. Obviously dog fighting became very popular as well. If owners and only the owners were the only things ever attacked by pit bulls I don't think anybody would care much. So who cares if they don't attack their owners because they are loyal? They obviously have zero issues attacking other things or other people or innocent children. Their breeding to bite, crush, and shake believe it or not has a pretty bad effect on small children. But go on believing that pit bulls have been bred for hundreds of years to be domesticated dogs. This is a false belief since it has only been since around 1835 and the breed was specifically bred to be killing machines. But hey, who cares about that because your dog is great. I have zero doubts that you spent a lot of effort training your dog and are a great owner. You probably dont need to carry a break stick.Doesn't change the fact that your conclusions about the breed are dead wrong. I don't support eradication of the breed, but I definitely support strict laws regarding them.

You are kinda all over the place here, so I'm not sure where to start. You are obviously passionate about the subject, which I can appreciate.We are definitely dealing with a disconnect when it comes to the word domesticate. So, I'll try to avoid using it. I guess I don't understand why you bring up ratting dogs. Some dogs were bred to rat, sure, but so were countless other dogs. The pit bull you see today bears little resemblance to the ratting dogs of the past.We can argue how far back breeding of pit bulls go but it would probably be to little avail. The bottom line is that at no point were these dogs bred to attack humans. Never. There are dogs breeds that have been bred to be willing to do that (German Shepherds, for instance). Pit bulls aren't one of them. Generally speaking, pit bulls make really horrible guard dogs.Pit bulls are currently one of the most over bred and neglected breeds out there. Shelters are over run with them. Millions are laid down every year. No other breed is facing that kind of neglect. If you had the same number of Dobermans out there, treated the same, you would have the same issues. It's largely a numbers game.No one wants kids to get hurt, least of all me. But if you were to wipe every last pit bull off the face of the earth, kids would still get hurt by dogs. Because there is no shortage of big, strong dogs and there is no shortage of idiot owners.

 

[Chairshot]

http://dogbitelaw.com/images/pdf/Dog_Attacks_1982-2006_Clifton.pdfNot sure if this has been posted in here or not. Pretty eye opening data.

This is the type of stuff I'm talking about. Could we get more unscientific in data collection then by going by newspaper reports?I'm familiar with Merritt Clifton's work. He's an anti-pit bull guy. His magazine, Animal People, isn't exactly hard hitting journalism.The data really lacks context because we have no idea what the dog population make up is. How many dogs are out there? 100 million? 200? Stuff like this report doesn't advance the conversation, it only clouds the issue.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

This is the type of stuff I'm talking about. Could we get more unscientific in data collection then by going by newspaper reports?

Its hard to look past the military's resolution on pittbulls.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Just out of curiosity, what were pit bulls bred for say 175 years ago when bear and bull baiting became illegal and when Pit Bull terriers first became a breed?It would appear to me that you and I have different definitions of "hundreds of years" and "to be domesticated" but to each his own I guess.

I'm not sure I totally understand your question because it seems like it's worded pretty poorly. I'm guessing you are asking what pit bulls have been used for in the past and I'm guessing the answer you are looking for is dog fighting.What a dog is used for is different than what traits it's bred for. Pit bulls have traditionally been bred to be strong, fearless, obedient, loyal and intelligent. They have not been bred for aggression towards humans. In fact, when these dogs were being bred for fighting, any that showed signs of human aggression were culled. They wanted big, strong dogs that would have strong loyalty and obedience, so they would do exactly what they were told to do - in that case fighting. No one was trying to bred a vicious killer that would have the tendency to turn on their owners. That would make zero sense for the owner to breed for.Those traits carry over in good ways. Loyalty, obedience and intelligence are traits an owner would want in any dog. What you have now is many people breeding them badly and then treating them badly. That's a recipe for disaster for any big, strong dog.

After bull baiting fell out of favor they decided to cross breed the dogs with terriers to make them more aggressive. Rat baiting was one of the reasons for this. Pit bulls were very effective because they could crush, shake, kill and move on to a new rat very quickly. Obviously dog fighting became very popular as well. If owners and only the owners were the only things ever attacked by pit bulls I don't think anybody would care much. So who cares if they don't attack their owners because they are loyal? They obviously have zero issues attacking other things or other people or innocent children. Their breeding to bite, crush, and shake believe it or not has a pretty bad effect on small children. But go on believing that pit bulls have been bred for hundreds of years to be domesticated dogs. This is a false belief since it has only been since around 1835 and the breed was specifically bred to be killing machines. But hey, who cares about that because your dog is great. I have zero doubts that you spent a lot of effort training your dog and are a great owner. You probably dont need to carry a break stick.Doesn't change the fact that your conclusions about the breed are dead wrong. I don't support eradication of the breed, but I definitely support strict laws regarding them.

You are kinda all over the place here, so I'm not sure where to start. You are obviously passionate about the subject, which I can appreciate.We are definitely dealing with a disconnect when it comes to the word domesticate. So, I'll try to avoid using it. I guess I don't understand why you bring up ratting dogs. Some dogs were bred to rat, sure, but so were countless other dogs. The pit bull you see today bears little resemblance to the ratting dogs of the past.We can argue how far back breeding of pit bulls go but it would probably be to little avail. The bottom line is that at no point were these dogs bred to attack humans. Never. There are dogs breeds that have been bred to be willing to do that (German Shepherds, for instance). Pit bulls aren't one of them. Generally speaking, pit bulls make really horrible guard dogs.Pit bulls are currently one of the most over bred and neglected breeds out there. Shelters are over run with them. Millions are laid down every year. No other breed is facing that kind of neglect. If you had the same number of Dobermans out there, treated the same, you would have the same issues. It's largely a numbers game.No one wants kids to get hurt, least of all me. But if you were to wipe every last pit bull off the face of the earth, kids would still get hurt by dogs. Because there is no shortage of big, strong dogs and there is no shortage of idiot owners.

I agree they weren't bred to attack humans. My point is that they were bred to kill. So when they do attack humans, it is terrible. I also agree with you that eradicating them isnt the right thing to do. What I would love is for owners of dangerous dogs (obviously not just pits) to be held to a higher standard than other dog owners. I think there needs to be an acknowledgment from all that they are in fact dangerous and that extra precautions need to be taken. One of my best friends had a pit bull. He used to tell me all the time how harmless it was. So lovable, cute, loyal etc. It always made me nervous though and I never felt he took the proper precautions. He was so determined that everybody else was just wrong about the breed and he knew better. Well one day at the dog park the pit was attacked by a terrier mix. The pit whirled on the thing and went to town on it. The owner of the terrier stepped in to try and separate them and my friend's dog went to town on her. First off I really felt for him because this was a situation that was not caused by his dog at all. It was attacked by an unleashed dog at the dog park. I despise people that don't put their dogs on a leash in public. Any dog. I dont care what people say about how well behaved their dog is. If a deer jumps out of the bushes right in front of the dog you simply have no idea exactly how it will act. But to the point, if my friend had treated his dog as having the potential to inflict this kind of damage he would not have been letting his 10 year old son hold the leash at the dog park and it would have been a much shorter leash and a harness on the dog. I firmly believe that this situation would not have happened had he not been so stubborn about insisting that his dog was harmless. I have been a vegetarian for 17 years and would never support killing animals. So please don't think I believe that at all.

 

[Chaka]

This is the type of stuff I'm talking about. Could we get more unscientific in data collection then by going by newspaper reports?

Its hard to look past the military's resolution on pittbulls.

The military resolution was to curtail dog fighting rings.

 

[steelerfan1]

Its hard to look past the military's resolution on pittbulls.

The military resolution was to curtail dog fighting rings.

and to think these dogs used to be part of our military and now they can't even be kept on bases.shows what a bunch of morons can accomplish given a few decades.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Yeah we know that moron Mike Vick helped ruin the breed.

Guess he got his because he died just before Christmas.

 

[Ketamine Dreams]

My link

 

[TexanFan02]

My link

But... But... They're sweet, lovable dogs? How could this happen?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I`ll take my chances with a pitbull over an ashole human with a gun any day

 

[GTBilly]

Please stop calling the Pitt a large breed.

 

[[icon]]

How DARE you walk your dog on public streets....

 

[Mister CIA]

My link

But... But... They're sweet, lovable dogs? How could this happen?

Maybe because people such as yourself frame this as a dog problem, when in fact it's a people problem. Keep on Whiffin.

 

[flapgreen]

I realize it's unrealistic and ridiculous to call for elimination of the entire, but if it was possible, I'd be the fist in line to vote.

 

[Mister CIA]

How DARE you walk your dog on public streets....

Thought grenades, incoming!!

Sawyer said the pit bull was involved in several other incidents with animals in the past. Following Saturday’s attack, it was set to be quarantined for 10 days.

A pitbull, like the one in this file photo, will be euthanized after a Saturday attack.