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"You can’t hit them high no more. You’ve just got to go low.” (1 Viewer)

SaintsInDome2006

Footballguy
Corey White had two roughing penalties in a row against him vs the Bills (led to a TD by the way). Someone told me they may have seen helmet to helmet in a glancing way but the penalties looked absurd, Lewis was in the act of passing both times, all that could be guessed is that White hit him high.

Is this happening a lot?

 

DoubleG

Footballguy
Why again did they lower his suspension?
Good posting. Meriweather is a headhunter, a dirty player and a moron - all rolled into one clueless dope. When he was a Bear (my team) - I couldn't stand him, as he'd rather lay someone out, and cost the team 15 yards then make a good tackle. And most of the time he was making those hits was because he was late getting over. He's a bad safety and a guy that is only looking to hurt people and make highlights.

I've heard several former players say that "back in the day" he would have already had the favor repayed several times. Offensive players don't do that anymore - and the league touts player "safety" out one side of it's mouth, while letting this jerk have a reduced suspension when he is a multi-time offender who has made his intent crystal clear. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

 

mad sweeney

Footballguy
Why again did they lower his suspension?
No idea since he's one of the worst repeat offenders. He got his fine reduced on that big weekend a few seasons ago when a number of players got fined and his was about as cheap a shot as you'll ever see. I think it was Heap being tackles by someone else and BM just ran in and launched head down straight into Heap's face mask. Guy is a walking fine...And he's also right. It's rather absurd that hits like the one on Cobb are legal but so many incidental head hits are flagged and/or fined. Especially since refs seem to err on the side of the receiver on whether they throw a flag, although I do think that they're doing better this season. If I was a defender I'd go low too. If I had to choose between a fine or a QB yelling at me, I'd keep my money. I've hated that you could go low for a long time. I remember about 5 or 6 seasons ago a Seahawk WR, in one of the seasons that they couldn't keep WRs healthy, went up for a ball and the defender dove right at the point where the WR's knee would be when he landed. Instead multi-ligament tear, career over and no flag. And this was before the defenseless receiver flags. I don't want it to happen but I can't fault defenders for trying to avoid flags/fines. A number of people, myself included, foresaw this threat to knees when the defenseless receiver protection went overboard.

 

SaintsInDome2006

Footballguy
Why again did they lower his suspension?
Good posting. Meriweather is a headhunter, a dirty player and a moron - all rolled into one clueless dope. When he was a Bear (my team) - I couldn't stand him, as he'd rather lay someone out, and cost the team 15 yards then make a good tackle. And most of the time he was making those hits was because he was late getting over. He's a bad safety and a guy that is only looking to hurt people and make highlights.

I've heard several former players say that "back in the day" he would have already had the favor repayed several times. Offensive players don't do that anymore - and the league touts player "safety" out one side of it's mouth, while letting this jerk have a reduced suspension when he is a multi-time offender who has made his intent crystal clear. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
In other words no one knows why or how the NFL reaches its suspensions, penalties or fines?

 

chinawildman

Footballguy
Saw a really bad one in the Bengals game where Newman was cutting across the field going for the INT and happened to hit the defender's helmet while he was trying to catch the ball. 15 yards, automatic first down.

That sorta stuff is really ruining the game for me. I think if the rules allow for incidental contact on tangled feet for pass interference, they need to account for incidental contact on "hits to the head". It should be as is in the legal world where intent is weighed heavily in assessing the appropriate penalties.

 

Hoss Style

Footballguy
Why again did they lower his suspension?
Good posting. Meriweather is a headhunter, a dirty player and a moron - all rolled into one clueless dope. When he was a Bear (my team) - I couldn't stand him, as he'd rather lay someone out, and cost the team 15 yards then make a good tackle. And most of the time he was making those hits was because he was late getting over. He's a bad safety and a guy that is only looking to hurt people and make highlights.

I've heard several former players say that "back in the day" he would have already had the favor repayed several times. Offensive players don't do that anymore - and the league touts player "safety" out one side of it's mouth, while letting this jerk have a reduced suspension when he is a multi-time offender who has made his intent crystal clear. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
This is a good point, DoubleG. The problem with letting him "off the hook" with a relatively short suspension is that he is going to keep doing it. He would have been retaliated against back in the day. But since most players are following the rules they've been given, there's no on field consequences for his actions - it falls to the League to do it. By the league letting him get away with this they are actually encouraging other players to police it themselves, leading to more dangerous or illegal plays.

If they want to get rid of dirty play, and they don't want the players to police themselves, then make the punishments worth the crimes. The NFL is dropping the ball on this, imo.

 

Mikey16x

Footballguy
Why again did they lower his suspension?
Good posting. Meriweather is a headhunter, a dirty player and a moron - all rolled into one clueless dope. When he was a Bear (my team) - I couldn't stand him, as he'd rather lay someone out, and cost the team 15 yards then make a good tackle. And most of the time he was making those hits was because he was late getting over. He's a bad safety and a guy that is only looking to hurt people and make highlights.

I've heard several former players say that "back in the day" he would have already had the favor repayed several times. Offensive players don't do that anymore - and the league touts player "safety" out one side of it's mouth, while letting this jerk have a reduced suspension when he is a multi-time offender who has made his intent crystal clear. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
This is a good point, DoubleG. The problem with letting him "off the hook" with a relatively short suspension is that he is going to keep doing it. He would have been retaliated against back in the day. But since most players are following the rules they've been given, there's no on field consequences for his actions - it falls to the League to do it. By the league letting him get away with this they are actually encouraging other players to police it themselves, leading to more dangerous or illegal plays.

If they want to get rid of dirty play, and they don't want the players to police themselves, then make the punishments worth the crimes. The NFL is dropping the ball on this, imo.
Crazy how this guy dodged another bullet. I mean the guy has a youtube video titled "Brandon Meriweather's cheap shots"..

 

Warrior

Footballguy
He's an idiot...

..but he's right.

When a receiver like Calvin Johnson or Brandon Marshall, and you're a below average DB like Meriweather, you have three options.

Option 1) Try a form tackle using your arms and not launching into the WR. This will result in an easy broken tackle for a good WR 100% of the time.

Option 2) Launch yourself at the WR in whatever way will knock him down. If he leans into you and it results in helmet to helmet, so be it.

Option 3) Go for the knees like when Cobb was tackled a few weeks ago. Since Option 1 results in a 50 yard TD for the WR and Option 2 results in a penalty/suspension, Option 3 is your only real choice.

Now why would Gooddell let this happen? Because blown knees and torn ACL's don't result in lawsuits. Concussions do.

 

Warrior

Footballguy
Love Meriweather's retort to Brandon Marshall, by the way.

...Brandon Marshall, who last week suggested that players such as Meriweather should perhaps be "taken out of the game completely" to make the game safer.

"Everybody got their opinion," Meriweather said Monday. "If he feel like, you know, I need to be kicked out of the league, I feel like people who beat their girlfriends should be kicked out of the league, too. You tell me who you'd rather have — somebody who plays aggressive on the field, or somebody who beat up their girlfriend?"
:lol: :thumbup:

Touche. If Meriweather is going to take someone out, he might as well at least be taking out the garbage (Marshall)

 
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DoubleG

Footballguy
Love Meriweather's retort to Brandon Marshall, by the way.

...Brandon Marshall, who last week suggested that players such as Meriweather should perhaps be "taken out of the game completely" to make the game safer.

"Everybody got their opinion," Meriweather said Monday. "If he feel like, you know, I need to be kicked out of the league, I feel like people who beat their girlfriends should be kicked out of the league, too. You tell me who you'd rather have — somebody who plays aggressive on the field, or somebody who beat up their girlfriend?"
:lol: :thumbup:

Touche. If Meriweather is going to take someone out, he might as well at least be taking out the garbage (Marshall)
Good point. Head-hunting should be illegal...unless the defender doesn't like the guy....then it's okay.

And Meriweather's comment is bait and switch: "plays aggressive" <> "only tries to injure opponents". He does the latter, not the former. Hall plays aggressive - Meriweather is just a cheap-shot guy who uses "aggressiveness" as an excuse to do it.

 

msudaisy26

Footballguy
Love Meriweather's retort to Brandon Marshall, by the way.

...Brandon Marshall, who last week suggested that players such as Meriweather should perhaps be "taken out of the game completely" to make the game safer.

"Everybody got their opinion," Meriweather said Monday. "If he feel like, you know, I need to be kicked out of the league, I feel like people who beat their girlfriends should be kicked out of the league, too. You tell me who you'd rather have — somebody who plays aggressive on the field, or somebody who beat up their girlfriend?"
:lol: :thumbup:

Touche. If Meriweather is going to take someone out, he might as well at least be taking out the garbage (Marshall)
Meriweather is an idiot but that is a good response.

 

MoveToSkypager

Footballguy
Love Meriweather's retort to Brandon Marshall, by the way.

...Brandon Marshall, who last week suggested that players such as Meriweather should perhaps be "taken out of the game completely" to make the game safer.

"Everybody got their opinion," Meriweather said Monday. "If he feel like, you know, I need to be kicked out of the league, I feel like people who beat their girlfriends should be kicked out of the league, too. You tell me who you'd rather have — somebody who plays aggressive on the field, or somebody who beat up their girlfriend?"
:lol: :thumbup:

Touche. If Meriweather is going to take someone out, he might as well at least be taking out the garbage (Marshall)
Good point. Head-hunting should be illegal...unless the defender doesn't like the guy....then it's okay.

And Meriweather's comment is bait and switch: "plays aggressive" <> "only tries to injure opponents". He does the latter, not the former. Hall plays aggressive - Meriweather is just a cheap-shot guy who uses "aggressiveness" as an excuse to do it.
You can't expect Meriweather to understand the words he's saying, or anything else.

 

bizkliz

Footballguy
Love Meriweather's retort to Brandon Marshall, by the way.



...Brandon Marshall, who last week suggested that players such as Meriweather should perhaps be "taken out of the game completely" to make the game safer.



"Everybody got their opinion," Meriweather said Monday. "If he feel like, you know, I need to be kicked out of the league, I feel like people who beat their girlfriends should be kicked out of the league, too. You tell me who you'd rather have somebody who plays aggressive on the field, or somebody who beat up their girlfriend?"
:lol: :thumbup:

Touche. If Meriweather is going to take someone out, he might as well at least be taking out the garbage (Marshall)
Agree.

As a husband and father of a daughter, no excuse to hit a woman, most real men already know this.

Granted, it may be apples to oranges, but the likely goal was making Marshall shut his yap. Tough to come back from that one.

-biz-

 

DoubleG

Footballguy
Love Meriweather's retort to Brandon Marshall, by the way.

...Brandon Marshall, who last week suggested that players such as Meriweather should perhaps be "taken out of the game completely" to make the game safer.



"Everybody got their opinion," Meriweather said Monday. "If he feel like, you know, I need to be kicked out of the league, I feel like people who beat their girlfriends should be kicked out of the league, too. You tell me who you'd rather have somebody who plays aggressive on the field, or somebody who beat up their girlfriend?"
:lol: :thumbup:

Touche. If Meriweather is going to take someone out, he might as well at least be taking out the garbage (Marshall)
Agree.

As a husband and father of a daughter, no excuse to hit a woman, most real men already know this.

Granted, it may be apples to oranges, but the likely goal was making Marshall shut his yap. Tough to come back from that one.

-biz-
The only problem is, that it still doesn't justify Meriweather's style of play. Make Marshall shut up? Sure. Everyone else that thinks his primary goal is to injure someone at least once a game? Not so much.

 

KellysHeroes

Footballguy
He's an idiot...

..but he's right.

When a receiver like Calvin Johnson or Brandon Marshall, and you're a below average DB like Meriweather, you have three options.

Option 1) Try a form tackle using your arms and not launching into the WR. This will result in an easy broken tackle for a good WR 100% of the time.

Option 2) Launch yourself at the WR in whatever way will knock him down. If he leans into you and it results in helmet to helmet, so be it.

Option 3) Go for the knees like when Cobb was tackled a few weeks ago. Since Option 1 results in a 50 yard TD for the WR and Option 2 results in a penalty/suspension, Option 3 is your only real choice.

Now why would Gooddell let this happen? Because blown knees and torn ACL's don't result in lawsuits. Concussions do.
I could see this generation of players suing the NFL over increased knee injuries, its clear the rules have been aggressively changed without consideration for the consequences and careers are at an all time risk. Sport analysis and players have predicted that tackle boxes would go down to the kness and the way the NFL are handling the head hits isn't helping. The concusion protocols was a great tool the NFL installed to help prevent further damage to an already injuried player and give the players protection against managements that demand they go in play while concussed. But the the constant flags the defensive players are getting over legal tackles or unintentional head shots is crazy and ruining the game.

 

Hoss Style

Footballguy
Warrior said:
He's an idiot...

..but he's right.

When a receiver like Calvin Johnson or Brandon Marshall, and you're a below average DB like Meriweather, you have three options.

Option 1) Try a form tackle using your arms and not launching into the WR. This will result in an easy broken tackle for a good WR 100% of the time.

Option 2) Launch yourself at the WR in whatever way will knock him down. If he leans into you and it results in helmet to helmet, so be it.

Option 3) Go for the knees like when Cobb was tackled a few weeks ago. Since Option 1 results in a 50 yard TD for the WR and Option 2 results in a penalty/suspension, Option 3 is your only real choice.

Now why would Gooddell let this happen? Because blown knees and torn ACL's don't result in lawsuits. Concussions do.
I agree with this, for the most part. Just because I think Godell should be consistant with his safety rules (and suspensions) doesn't mean I agree with the rules themselves.

 

bcat01

Footballguy
chinawildman said:
Saw a really bad one in the Bengals game where Newman was cutting across the field going for the INT and happened to hit the defender's helmet while he was trying to catch the ball. 15 yards, automatic first down.

That sorta stuff is really ruining the game for me. I think if the rules allow for incidental contact on tangled feet for pass interference, they need to account for incidental contact on "hits to the head". It should be as is in the legal world where intent is weighed heavily in assessing the appropriate penalties.
This was one of the worst calls I've seen all year.

 

jurb26

Footballguy
How about the play last night where a Sea defender, I think Thomas, ran up on a St. L TE and hit him as the TE was trying to pull in a pass. TE dropped the ball and trucked Thomas... Thomas got called for hitting a defenseless receiver! It was priceless. "Defenseless" guy obliterates the DB and the DB gets a penalty!

 

SaintsInDome2006

Footballguy
chinawildman said:
Saw a really bad one in the Bengals game where Newman was cutting across the field going for the INT and happened to hit the defender's helmet while he was trying to catch the ball. 15 yards, automatic first down.

That sorta stuff is really ruining the game for me. I think if the rules allow for incidental contact on tangled feet for pass interference, they need to account for incidental contact on "hits to the head". It should be as is in the legal world where intent is weighed heavily in assessing the appropriate penalties.
This was one of the worst calls I've seen all year.
It's a problem, because it has nothing to do with roughing, skill, personal fouls or anything else illegal or unsportsmanlike, and yet it affects games in a major way.

The competitive balance and trustworthiness of the game itself has been affected.

 
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Sinn Fein

Footballguy
You would think that with a small fraternity of players, they would take better care of this among the players - why all the attempts to injure fellow players?

 

steveski

Footballguy
I've never wished an injury upon anyone, but if I had to, it would be to Meriweather. The guy doesn't deserve to be in the NFL. There's a huge difference between playing aggressive and trying to launch yourself full speed at somebody every time. If he was apologetic, I would feel a little differently. Just stating the fact that he's going to have to target people's knees now is the worst thing he could have ever said. Now if he hurts someone by hitting them low, it will look planned. He's dumb, dirty and just flat out not even that good of a player. I'd hate to see him continue to knock out good, clean players. I don't know a single person who likes him or defends him and I live in the DC area with all Redskins fans.

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
You all have really been sold a new outlook on the NFL and it seems finally Goodell has you all buying into the new system. Before you start hating on me let me explain that I also think according to the current rules that Merriweather is being a total bag o poop on this and maybe Goodell should suspend him another game, I don't like hearing guys threatening to end careers.

You do need to understand though that these guys grew up emulating players that wouldn't last a season in the new NFL. Ronnie Lott was one of the biggest headhunters of all time, a HoF no doubt and one time decided to just cut off the end of his finger and keep playing, try telling that to all these pansies writhing in pain every time they strain a muscle.

The game has been altered or changed, many seem to like it, some of us do not.

Also, in the not too distant future you can expect that all players entering the NFL will be asked or forced to sign a waiver stating they understand the dangers of the game and that they will not sue the NFL after they retire. Sure the NFL is doling out $765M over the next 20 years or roughly $38.25M a year to retired players and I don't think they plan on dishing out a lot more on top for the players that are playing now or future players.

Once a waiver releasing the NFL of any liability towards the players is agreed upon and the league gets this issue put behind them, I think you might eventually see a changing back of the rules to what we have grown up with. I want a DE to just run in with a chainsaw and run right at the QB's head like the Raiders did in the 70s :) That's a little Halloween joke, no reason to stroke out at the keyboard.

Seriously though, there should be something like this in the works so don't be surprised if you hear about it int he not too distant future.

 

VA703

Footballguy
bad choice of words from merriweather but he is 100% correct. if that's what the nfl wants then that's what they'll get.. watch them change the rules after all the blown out knees trying to avoid the suspensions of helmet to helmet

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
bad choice of words from merriweather but he is 100% correct. if that's what the nfl wants then that's what they'll get.. watch them change the rules after all the blown out knees trying to avoid the suspensions of helmet to helmet
What the NFL can do is equip the players with electronic devices from the chest/shoulders down to the thighs under the jersey and pants, when a defender pushes real hard on that part of the body the lights on the outside of the jersey light up and the ball carrier can no longer advance the ball. Fans will have to assume the ball carrier would have been tackled but to prevent any real injuries we will assume the tackle and not put players thru any unnecessary roughness.

I'm sure about half the people in the stands right now would actually prefer this.

 

SaintsInDome2006

Footballguy
bad choice of words from merriweather but he is 100% correct. if that's what the nfl wants then that's what they'll get.. watch them change the rules after all the blown out knees trying to avoid the suspensions of helmet to helmet
What the NFL can do is equip the players with electronic devices from the chest/shoulders down to the thighs under the jersey and pants, when a defender pushes real hard on that part of the body the lights on the outside of the jersey light up and the ball carrier can no longer advance the ball. Fans will have to assume the ball carrier would have been tackled but to prevent any real injuries we will assume the tackle and not put players thru any unnecessary roughness.

I'm sure about half the people in the stands right now would actually prefer this.
Yes, this is the system used in fencing and it's a very popular Olympic sport. On the other hand, maybe the NFL should take note.

 

mad sweeney

Footballguy
How about the play last night where a Sea defender, I think Thomas, ran up on a St. L TE and hit him as the TE was trying to pull in a pass. TE dropped the ball and trucked Thomas... Thomas got called for hitting a defenseless receiver! It was priceless. "Defenseless" guy obliterates the DB and the DB gets a penalty!
That kind of incidental head contact needs to be allowed. Thomas clearly led with his shoulder, didn't follow through with the hit but because their face masks grazed each other (due to the receiver lowering his own shoulder pads), it's a first down. That should never be a penalty on anyone. The second one they flagged Wagner for was a good call.

 

DaveGrumbles

Footballguy
bad choice of words from merriweather but he is 100% correct. if that's what the nfl wants then that's what they'll get.. watch them change the rules after all the blown out knees trying to avoid the suspensions of helmet to helmet
What the NFL can do is equip the players with electronic devices from the chest/shoulders down to the thighs under the jersey and pants, when a defender pushes real hard on that part of the body the lights on the outside of the jersey light up and the ball carrier can no longer advance the ball. Fans will have to assume the ball carrier would have been tackled but to prevent any real injuries we will assume the tackle and not put players thru any unnecessary roughness.

I'm sure about half the people in the stands right now would actually prefer this.
Yes, this is the system used in fencing and it's a very popular Olympic sport. On the other hand, maybe the NFL should take note.
(1) I assume these lights would only be on when someone is carrying a football as normal blocking would make the football field look like a fireworks display.

(2) How does that prevent injury? Most injuries happen to guys when they aren't holding a football.

 

mad sweeney

Footballguy
so is he going to get suspended again after today?
Did he do it again? I know I saw at least 2 bad penalties for head hits that shouldn't be flagged. One in the Chargers game and one in Seattle. Earl Thomas was coming across the middle and was aiming hip high but the receiver ducked his head. Their heads collided pretty mildly about 3 feet above the groud and it was flagged for defenseless receiver. So I guess defenders have to go low enough that a WR can't duck his head low enough, so knees it is...

 

ShamrockPride

Footballguy
Okay fair enough but then I challenge anybody in this thread to explain that ludicrous Roughing the Passer call on that Josh Bush hit to Drew Brees today.

The league says no to hits at the head or knees if it's a QB. That play was neither of them. That play was EXACTLY where the league wants you to hit a player. In the hip/stomach area. Bush did just that....and he gets flagged anyways.

Maybe, just maybe, Meriweather, in some kind of reverse psychological reasoning, has a point.

 
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KellysHeroes

Footballguy
so is he going to get suspended again after today?
Did he do it again? I know I saw at least 2 bad penalties for head hits that shouldn't be flagged. One in the Chargers game and one in Seattle. Earl Thomas was coming across the middle and was aiming hip high but the receiver ducked his head. Their heads collided pretty mildly about 3 feet above the groud and it was flagged for defenseless receiver. So I guess defenders have to go low enough that a WR can't duck his head low enough, so knees it is...
I guess he followed up and hit a couple of players low

 

lod01

Footballguy
Penalty today when a NYJ defender hit Brees above the knees and just below the waist. It's bordering on touch football. A totally legal tackle was a 15 yard penalty.

 

mad sweeney

Footballguy
Okay fair enough but then I challenge anybody in this thread to explain that ludicrous Roughing the Passer call on that Josh Bush hit to Drew Brees today.

The league says no to hits at the head or knees if it's a QB. That play was neither of them. That play was EXACTLY where the league wants you to hit a player. In the hip/stomach area. Bush did just that....and he gets flagged anyways.

Maybe, just maybe, Meriweather, in some kind of reverse psychological reasoning, has a point.
He does have a point, but he's not an innocent clean hitting guy who's been unfairly flagged. He's a habitual offender of the worst kinds of hits that shouldn't be in the league and are being removed. The guy launches himself straight at facemasks with the crown of his helmet.

 

fatness

against the grain
I watched most of the Redskins/Chargers game and thought Merriweather tackled well. I didn't see any head shots.

 

Donnybrook

Footballguy
Michael Griffin was suspended for 1 game for hit on Oakland tight end Michael Rivera.

It was a scary hit but did not look intential. Rivera was falling forward and Griffin delivered the hit around waist level and knocked Riveria' helmet off. Griffin is appealing the suspension.

 
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Houston turmOiler

Footballguy
Michael Griffin was suspended for 1 game for hit on Oakland tight end Michael Riveria.

It was a scary hit but did not look intential. Riveria was falling forward and Griffin delivered the hit around waist level and knocked Riveria' helmet off. Griffin is appealing the suspension.
I agree I thought Griffin had nowhere to go and tried not to hurt him.....Rivera went down low and a collision was inevitable
 

Donnybrook

Footballguy
Michael Griffin was suspended for 1 game for hit on Oakland tight end Michael Riveria.

It was a scary hit but did not look intential. Riveria was falling forward and Griffin delivered the hit around waist level and knocked Riveria' helmet off. Griffin is appealing the suspension.
I agree I thought Griffin had nowhere to go and tried not to hurt him.....Rivera went down low and a collision was inevitable
Agree. I don't understand the suspension. http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/233370791.html

"I'm asking where do you aim low when somebody's going over the middle and he's catching the ball and he's falling at the same time? What do you do? My position and my job as a defensive player is to keep him from catching the ball and I don't know what you're supposed to do," Griffin said after the game.
 

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