Texasmouth
Footballguy
Point is his numbers are inflated by games against garbage schools. The initial post said he DOMINATED the SEC. He did no such thing.
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Zac Stacy Hype Train - Rams (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Maven
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Junior McSpiffy
Footballguy
Then don't just take out the numbers against the cupcakes. Show the remaining numbers.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Uh, no. I said he dominated IN the SEC. I didn't say he "DOMINATED the SEC". He was one of the SEC's leading rushers over the last couple years right? He was in the SEC and he was one of the better RB's in that conference.
Had I used a bunch of capital letters, would you have been able to get my point? Just wondering...
Shanahanigans
Footballguy
Another reason to hate rotoworld:
April 27: "With only Isaiah Pead, Daryl Richardson and Terrance Ganaway in front of him, Stacy is a name to keep an eye on."
June 12: "Isaiah Pead and Zac Stacy are the top candidates for the starting role."
July 5: "We believe Isaiah Pead and Zac Stacy both have better chances to start [over Richardson]."
August 6: "Richardson is now indisputably the Rams back to own. Rookie Zac Stacy was never a realistic option to start."
Really rotoworld? Because a month ago you said Stacy had a better chance to start than Richardson. These guys never eat crow. If I would have listened to them I never would have taken CJ Spiller. You're better off just following the links than listening to rotoworld's worthless analysis.
April 27: "With only Isaiah Pead, Daryl Richardson and Terrance Ganaway in front of him, Stacy is a name to keep an eye on."
June 12: "Isaiah Pead and Zac Stacy are the top candidates for the starting role."
July 5: "We believe Isaiah Pead and Zac Stacy both have better chances to start [over Richardson]."
August 6: "Richardson is now indisputably the Rams back to own. Rookie Zac Stacy was never a realistic option to start."
Really rotoworld? Because a month ago you said Stacy had a better chance to start than Richardson. These guys never eat crow. If I would have listened to them I never would have taken CJ Spiller. You're better off just following the links than listening to rotoworld's worthless analysis.
Shutout
Footballguy
I feel ya man. I quit listening to roto years ago when I bought what they were serving about jamaal Charles. All they ever said was too small, nothing more than a change of pace back, too this, too that.
Nucker101
Footballguy
It's actually kind of funny because of how shameless they are. I feel bad for the people who actually pay for their draft guide. It must change drastically by the day and have a lot of "I told ya so's" in it.
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In 2011, Alabama and Vanderbilt played 4 common opponents in the SEC - Mississippi, Arkansas, Florida, and Tennessee. Vandy went 1-3 against them and Alabama went 4-0. Here are the rushing stats of TRich and Stacy in those games:
TRich: 80-567-5 - 7.1 ypc
Stacy: 60-407-3 - 6.8 ypc
From those teams, Alabama had 1 tackle and 2 guards drafted, two in the 1st round and 1 in the 4th. Vandy had a guard drafted in the 7th. How do you think the stats would have turned out if you put Stacy behind Alabama's OL and TRich behind Vandy's?
BuzzCagney
Footballguy
jurb26
Footballguy
Yup, minor league for the NFL.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Really good post. He avoided LSU and Bama in 2012 as well.
EBF
Footballguy
Take any college team on the planet and you will only find a handful of guys on the roster good enough to be perennial starters in the NFL. There are exceptions like the Ken Dorsey Miami teams, but in general the rule holds true. Beating up on teams full of kids who have no NFL future is not a perfect predictor of a player's NFL chances. That was my point. How many times have we seen guys like Ron Dayne and Tim Tebow who were absolute studs at that level, but couldn't hack it on Sundays?
The way I look at college success is that it's necessary, but not sufficient for a player's NFL chances. If a player wasn't good enough to thrive at that low level, he probably won't be good enough to thrive at the NFL level. However, just because someone did well against amateur players doesn't mean that he has the goods to make the transition. This is why I have a tough time getting excited about arguments that use college statistics to directly compare the NFL outlook for two different players.
Tim Tebow had a higher YPA, more TD passes, fewer INTs, and a higher QB rating than Andrew Luck in college. What does this say about his NFL ability? Absolutely nothing.
Likewise, I don't know how useful it is to compare Zac Stacy's college stats to Trent Richardson's. What works in college doesn't necessarily work in the NFL. Different traits are emphasized and certain weaknesses are punished much more severely, which is how world beaters like Dayne become average players.
The way I look at college success is that it's necessary, but not sufficient for a player's NFL chances. If a player wasn't good enough to thrive at that low level, he probably won't be good enough to thrive at the NFL level. However, just because someone did well against amateur players doesn't mean that he has the goods to make the transition. This is why I have a tough time getting excited about arguments that use college statistics to directly compare the NFL outlook for two different players.
Tim Tebow had a higher YPA, more TD passes, fewer INTs, and a higher QB rating than Andrew Luck in college. What does this say about his NFL ability? Absolutely nothing.
Likewise, I don't know how useful it is to compare Zac Stacy's college stats to Trent Richardson's. What works in college doesn't necessarily work in the NFL. Different traits are emphasized and certain weaknesses are punished much more severely, which is how world beaters like Dayne become average players.
jurb26
Footballguy
jurb26
Footballguy
Yeah, well that is kind of nullified in this case seeing AH, Harvin and the Pouncy twins are all Pro Bowl caliber players. He got to play with 4 guys, all highly drafted and all extremely good at the NFL level on his college team. Hell, not just good at the pro level, Pro Bowlers. Thats almost unheard of. Not too mention the basic gap in talent between most of the other guys that were very good on that team but just not that level of good. There is a reason those UF teams won 2 Nat champs. It wasn't simply Tebow, though that sure is hard for people in Gainsville to comprehend. They also had a pretty stacked D those years. Who exactly was Luck working with in comparison? Tebow is clearly no Ken Dorsey and I don't think those UF teams are compatible to those Mia teams, but still... The gap between them and the general field was pretty wide.
Team ROFLCOPTERS
Footballguy
So far in camp it looks like ZS is now the 4th RB. Ganaway is getting more reps and is doing more with them.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
This hype train is losing steam fast....
Team ROFLCOPTERS
Footballguy
You don't get small info like that from links. They come from beat writer tweets and fan camp reports.
EBF
Footballguy
Pretty much an entire starting lineup of NFL players.
RB Toby Gerhart (Vikings)
RB Stepfan Taylor (Cardinals)
FB Owen Marecic (Browns)
WR Doug Baldwin (Seahawks)
WR Griff Whalen (Colts)
WR Ryan Whalen (Bengals)
TE Coby Fleener (Colts)
TE Levine Toilolo (Falcons)
TE Zach Ertz (Eagles)
TE Konrad Reuland (Jets)
OT Jonathan Martin (Dolphins)
OG David DeCastro (Steelers)
DE Thomas Keiser (Chargers)
DT Sione Fua (Panthers)
LB Shayne Skov (2014 prospect)
CB Richard Sherman (Seahawks)
SS Delano Howell (Colts)
FS Michael Thomas (49ers)
Luck played on some ridiculously stacked teams. The 2010 team that destroyed Virginia Tech in the Orange Bowl was probably the best team in the country.
Moot point really. There are always going to be 1-2 teams out there that have a flukish amount of NFL talent on the roster. Miami was like that a decade ago. You could say that Alabama is like this right now. Doesn't change the fact that even major college football is a very low level compared to the NFL. Take any team from any conference and you will find very few guys capable of holding down a spot on Sundays. Hence why you have to look at a player's collegiate accomplishments with skepticism. Those defenders that Tebow, Crouch, and Luck torched weren't going to make the grade for the NFL.
The fact that Zac Stacy tore up some scrubs from Auburn, LSU, and Georgia doesn't tell us anything about his NFL outlook. The players he faces on Sundays will be better across the board. Some dominant college players have what it takes to make that jump. A lot of them don't. What I don't think you can do is look at a player's college stats in a vacuum, compare him to another collegiate player, and use that as proof that he's better. Tebow had better stats than Luck in a "stronger" SEC conference. What does that matter now?
ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
Which beat writer you getting that from, though? Not saying you're wrong I just haven't seen Jim Thomas mention it. Stacy was given the day off for rest today.
Team ROFLCOPTERS
Footballguy
All of them. On the Rams message board that I follow the admin compiles every camp tweet of the day from various beat writers so we can get various views and opinions. My comment had nothing to do with his day off, although it is odd that he had a day off and spent the entire day being coached. No other back has had a day off but we will see if Fisher decides to start cycling them on an off day.
EBF
Footballguy
The 2010 Stanford team was the best in the country by the end of the year. Solid depth across the board, NFL talent at almost every position, and the best player in the country at the most important position on the field. But go on believing that they would have lost to South Carolina or Georgia. The SEC is the only place where college football is played...according to every SEC fan in the country. This is all you hear about from these people on ESPN, YouTube, Yahoo, etc. It's really tiresome.
My broader point was that both Luck and Tebow played with extremely stacked supporting casts. Almost all of the key players that Luck worked with at FB, RB, TE, and WR are in the NFL now. DeCastro and Martin were very high draft picks. Chase Beeler was an All-American center and all five of the OL starters earned some form of all-conference. Luck's supporting cast was one of the best of any QB in college football and yet there are plenty of QBs who had better college stats.
What is the point of all this? College stats only tell you so much about what a player brings to the table. Friendly schemes and weak opponents make it easy for marginal pro prospects to pad their stats and look like mega stars on paper. So, like I said, the fact that Stacy might have outperformed Richardson in a certain context or that Lacy might have outproduced Richardson at Bama has limited relevance when you're talking about their ability to thrive in the NFL, where every starter on the field is as good as the best guys they'd see in college.
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BuzzCagney
Footballguy
excuse me. i'm looking for the zac stacy hype train. have you seen it?
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
A cursory search of twitter showed a lot of positive reports on Stacy so I looked for the message board you mentioned, and found this history. Pretty much there is no positive news on Ganaway except for the days Stacy was out. There is no reason to think Ganaway is ahead of Stacy. There is positive news on Stacy.
http://www.rams-news.com/twitter-play-by-play-of-rams-practice-august-6-2/
- So… Terrance Ganaway can run some routes and catch some balls.
- Ganaway just broke a long one…he really is a different player when it counts
- Ganaway looks like nothing in drills but you can ability in 11 on 11 #ramscamp
- Running backs hitting the boxing bag,, Ganaway not impressive. Big guy doesn’t hit hard #ramscamp
http://www.rams-news.com/twitter-play-by-play-of-rams-practice-august-5/
- Third-team rep for Terrance Ganaway. Drops an Austin Davis pass in the end zone.
- Ogletree flashed violent hands and sweet slide step, tore up Ganaway in a LB vs RB pass blocking drill
- Zac Stacy met Daren Bates with a huge pop in the same drill. Blew him up.
- Zac Stacy just made some nasty cuts and fooled defenders; made me shout “OH DAMN!”
http://www.rams-news.com/twitter-play-by-play-of-rams-practice-july-31-2/
- Stacy has really flashed today running the ball
- Stacy looks very good on a toss sweep. Ate up the ground fast
- Return practice….Stacy fumbles a punt
- Cunningjam and Stacey both look powerful with the ball in hand
- Zac Stacey running low and behind his pads. Finding ways to untouched in a crowd. Color me impressed.
- Stacy bolts up the middle vs 2nd string for about 30
- Ogletree beats Ganaway on his 3rd rep. Reynolds did fine. Stacy has done well, but at the end of each rep has grabbed some shirt
- Backs vs linebackers in pass protection drill. Pead and Drich hold, Ganaway misses
- Beautiful throw by Davis to Stacy on wheel route in endzone. Dropped
- Backs run through a “slalom” drill…Drich, Stacy and Pead kicked ###
- Stacy has the hands but his route running is really rough…rounding off, not cutting so much as jumping #ramscamp
- Ganaway’s foot speeed not the equal of the rest so far #ramscamp
- Stacy fumbled early but came back with two really nice one cut and go runs #ramscamp
- Zac Stacy is one thick dude. Raw power
- Stacy has a bit of that Gore hide and burst thing when he ruins #ramscamp
- Stacy runs like a bowling ball of knives #sleeper #ramscamp
- Zac stacy has the calves and legs of a power back #ramscamp
Team ROFLCOPTERS
Footballguy
I never said there was not positive news on Stacy. It's camp. there will always be more positive than negative spins. That's not the site I frequent. I follow ramsrule. In regards to Ganaway and Stacy, Stacy started camp getting more work than Ganaway. That has shifted over the last 4 days. Ganaway has gotten more reps each day since Stacy had his issue in the 7 on 7 and 11 on 11 pass pro Friday.
I could care less who wins the battle so long as the Rams are successful. I'm being impartial. It seems you are inventing more positive than there is or turning a blind eye due to having an investment in Stacy.
Edit: That tweet feed is actually one that I use. I also follow reputable fans at the camp that give detailed reports
I could care less who wins the battle so long as the Rams are successful. I'm being impartial. It seems you are inventing more positive than there is or turning a blind eye due to having an investment in Stacy.
Edit: That tweet feed is actually one that I use. I also follow reputable fans at the camp that give detailed reports
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thriftyrocker
Footballguy
I don't have a horse in the race. I didn't invent any information, just provided links to a source you were too lazy to provide.
Team ROFLCOPTERS
Footballguy
It has nothing to do with laziness. You provided a handful of tweets when there is hundreds of tweets, posts, news and notes from columns and fans in attendance I was basing my post off of. I was giving the general sense that Rams fans have been talking about. I'm not giving facts or even giving an analysis of the battle. As you can see in my posts in this thread my aura regarding the battle has slowly changed as I've armed myself with accumulative info. Of course all of this stuff is just media fodder until preseason starts.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
You are not being impartial making up stuff like this-
The statement that you made contradicts everything that has been reported about the situation. Then you go on to say that this information could only be found from tweets and provided ZERO examples to back up your statement.
Then when thrifty (very knowledgeable Rams homer) provides information about the situation, including the supposed information that you based your statement on you say that he is being biased.
Good grief.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
I'm not a Rams homer, I just know how to use Google.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
My bad thrifty I thought you were.
I know Bob has talked about Ganaway and he is certainly in the mix. I have not heard Bob saying that Ganaway is playing ahead of Stacy or anything that ROFLCopters said.
I know Bob has talked about Ganaway and he is certainly in the mix. I have not heard Bob saying that Ganaway is playing ahead of Stacy or anything that ROFLCopters said.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Other Rams fans see the battle being Ganaway vs. Cunningham for a roster spot
http://www.ramsrule.com/herd/read.php?5,371899,371958#msg-371958
Ganaway is going to have to ball his brains out to make this team.
http://www.ramsrule.com/herd/read.php?5,371706,371750#msg-371750
Don't care who wins . . . just want the best one. But it seems like Cunningham is more powerful of the two, with Ganaway a little more nifty for a big guy. I watched all of Ganaway's preseason stuff last year, and it was hard to get a gage, but you could tell he was more shifty than powerful.
http://www.ramsrule.com/herd/read.php?5,371899,371958#msg-371958
Ganaway is going to have to ball his brains out to make this team.
http://www.ramsrule.com/herd/read.php?5,371706,371750#msg-371750
Don't care who wins . . . just want the best one. But it seems like Cunningham is more powerful of the two, with Ganaway a little more nifty for a big guy. I watched all of Ganaway's preseason stuff last year, and it was hard to get a gage, but you could tell he was more shifty than powerful.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Whitney26 has said some good things about Cunningham. He has a shot to make the team.
Thanks for the links btw thrifty. Reading over these the name I see popping up the most is Stedman Bailey.
Pead returned a punt for a TD and sounds like he is getting better at pass protection.
Thanks for the links btw thrifty. Reading over these the name I see popping up the most is Stedman Bailey.
Pead returned a punt for a TD and sounds like he is getting better at pass protection.
Abrantes
Footballguy
Team ROFLCOPTERS
Footballguy
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm curious where the reports are that Stacy is receiving more reps than Ganaway over the last 4 days? If my post came off as me saying that Stacy is going to be the 4th RB then I am sorry. I was merely saying that as we speak Ganaway is getting more reps. Stacy has pretty much got a rotation spot locked up. He was hand picked by Fisher and the Rams traded up to get him.
Personally I think Cunninham is the better back. He and Ganaway are I the same boat. There are no allegiance to either of them
I think many of us have a hard time being objective when we have tied our ship to him in some ways. Most of what we get in camp are positive reports from everyone unless something is disastrous. The only negative we've heard about Stacy is that he's having an occasional lapse in pass pro and his hands. Whether we believe he's been great or poor, we do knows his reps have slowly been going down. That may have more to do with the fact that Richardson and Pead have separated themselves a little bit and are getting more reps. Maybe the remainng reps are going a bit more towards Ganaway and Cunninham because the have a battle to make the team and more info is needed.
When all is said and done following tweets and stuff in camp isn't very academic. There are so many variables. Thursday will give us a better idea of what is going on.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
No worries. Your post did come off as you saying that Stacy IS the 4th RB, because that is exactly what you said. You also said that Ganaway is getting more reps, which is not true.
Thrifty cleared this up because Zac Stacy did not practice on 5 Aug.
So some sort of soreness in his calf, does not sound serious. But that in no way means that Ganaway leaped ahead of him on the depth chart. Which isn't sort of what you said.. it is what you said.
I totally agree with you that we should try to not be biased about these situations. That is an excellent reminder for us all.
For now Richardson is the lead RB. The depth chart they released (to be taken with grain of salt) lists the RB order as Richardson, Pead, Stacy, Ganaway.
As I have already mentioned, and pointed to many statements made by BriSchotty and Fisher, their plan is to have 2 RBs in rotation. One guy is the speed outside RB role and the other guy is the inside pass protection role. They are having Richardson and Pead motion out as WR looking for match ups against LB. I did read one instance of Austin motioning into the backfield (switching with the RB) as well, although they seem to be keeping this part of the offense mostly a secret.
Now I most certainly can and will be wrong. I just hope people can understand the picture I am trying to describe as far as how I think the RB will be used in rotation. I see the 2 distinct roles both getting similar action and I see Richardson competing with Pead for the outside role (player who would trade roles with Austin) and the inside role being between Stacy and Ganaway who are slightly bigger RB.
Cunningham from the little I have read about him seems to be a player more similar to Richardson/Pead than Stacy/Ganaway but I do not know much about him.
Team ROFLCOPTERS
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm sorry about the 4th rb dialogue. I was merely talking about as of the way things are going in camp right now. Nobody believes Stacy will be battling for a roster spot. If I led you or anyone else to believe that I am very sorry. My comment was not based off of Stacy getting the day off either. As I've said a few times, Stacy's workload has been going down since Friday and the extra reps have been going to Ganaway and to a lesser extend Cunninhgham. Perhaps Stacy has been hampered since Friday and ultimately led to a rest day on Tuesday or perhaps the Rams need extra info on the battle for the last Rams spot between Gan and Cun.
Certainly no more than "scouting" by "watching tape" on youtube.It makes my eyes bleed.Boxscore scouting
Agree with everything else in the post but this. The comparison to TRich was in response to the statement that Stacy only played well against inferior teams. That comparison certainly doesn't guarantee success in the NFL nor does it mean he is as good or better than TRich. But it does provide useful information, just like height, weight, 40 times, vertical, and any other measureable. The fact that he performed equally on an inferior team is meaningful.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I don't do that either. Those tapes are manufactured to be bias one way or the other.Certainly no more than "scouting" by "watching tape" on youtube.It makes my eyes bleed.Boxscore scouting
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Not really, if it was meaningful Stacy would have went a lot higher in the draft than he did.Hoosier16 said:
Because everyone taken in the 5th round never becomes a relevant starter.Being taken in the 5th round is another piece of meaningful information and probably the most meaningful piece of information. But it's not the only piece of information.
Xue
Footballguy
Many well-respected amateur scouts use youtube tape. Even Matt Waldman uses TV broadcast game tape. RB is the easiest position to scout because the camera will always be on them on carries and most pass protection plays.Hoosier16 said:Certainly no more than "scouting" by "watching tape" on youtube.MAC_32 said:It makes my eyes bleed.Xue said:Boxscore scouting
CB and Safety are probably the hardest to scout without All-22.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
So... Umm... What's going on here?
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Just found that he was kept out of Game 2 due to general soreness.
It'll be interesting to see if he can earn much play time any time soon.
It'll be interesting to see if he can earn much play time any time soon.
