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Housing While Black (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Fennis
- Start date
T
The Ghost of Common
Guest
Sharpton already weighed in on this. He couldn't wait even a full day.
Fennis
Footballguy
I havent seen or heard anything, but why shouldn't Sharpton express his opinion?
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KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
Okay let's do this.The police get a B&E call. What should they do when they arrive on the scene and find people inside the house?
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Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
Glad you posted, was interested in your perspective.
Fennis
Footballguy
how is he wasting your time?
DevilsTrifecta
Footballguy
Determine if there is a threat and then if not behave rationally.
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
Why wouldn't he? He's a complete opportunist.
T
The Ghost of Common
Guest
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
When there is a reported (potential) burglary, how are the police supposed to respond other than asking the guy in the (supposedly) burgled house for ID?
Witz
Footballguy
Based on what is being reported - this is what happened:
- Gates came home from a trip and was unable to get into his front door.
- Gates tried to gain access to the backdoor and was not successful.
- Gates with the assistance of his driver push open front door
- Neighbor (Lucia Whalen) notices two men pushing their way into a house and calls the police
- Police arrive after Gates is already inside.
- Police call for Gates to step outside and identify himself
- Gates does not do this and yells, 'Is it because I am a black man in America?'
- Police enter house
- Police ask for identification and Gates refuses initially saying 'Do you know who I am? You believe white women over black men. This is racial profiling'
- Gates finally produces a Harvard id card and police place a call with the Harvard police
- Gates continues to act out loudly
- Gates is arrested by the police
If I am missing anything above, please fill in the blanks for me. Of the events that occurred, please tell me where this was racism? Gates had just returned from a long trip to China and was probably tired, coupled with the fact that he couldn't get into his house and you could understand why he would be frustrated. Add on the fact that police have shown up to your house questioning you, you can see how he was going to react.
Again - I can't see how the police did anything other than by the book. Gates has said on his numerous interviews that he could not have been yelling because he was sick, but more than one neighbor has confirmed he was yelling. He was probably caught up in the moment with all of the items mentioned above and honestly probably doesn't remember all of his actions.
Thoughts?
- Gates came home from a trip and was unable to get into his front door.
- Gates tried to gain access to the backdoor and was not successful.
- Gates with the assistance of his driver push open front door
- Neighbor (Lucia Whalen) notices two men pushing their way into a house and calls the police
- Police arrive after Gates is already inside.
- Police call for Gates to step outside and identify himself
- Gates does not do this and yells, 'Is it because I am a black man in America?'
- Police enter house
- Police ask for identification and Gates refuses initially saying 'Do you know who I am? You believe white women over black men. This is racial profiling'
- Gates finally produces a Harvard id card and police place a call with the Harvard police
- Gates continues to act out loudly
- Gates is arrested by the police
If I am missing anything above, please fill in the blanks for me. Of the events that occurred, please tell me where this was racism? Gates had just returned from a long trip to China and was probably tired, coupled with the fact that he couldn't get into his house and you could understand why he would be frustrated. Add on the fact that police have shown up to your house questioning you, you can see how he was going to react.
Again - I can't see how the police did anything other than by the book. Gates has said on his numerous interviews that he could not have been yelling because he was sick, but more than one neighbor has confirmed he was yelling. He was probably caught up in the moment with all of the items mentioned above and honestly probably doesn't remember all of his actions.
Thoughts?
Fennis
Footballguy
And when it turns out the upset homeowner lives in the home?
encaitar
Footballguy
You mean ask the man to prove he lives there and if he freaks out then arrest him? Seems to be what the police did in this situation.
No doubt Tom.If he lived there, why wouldn't I be fine with it?
T
The Ghost of Common
Guest
In case anyones interested in the Officer's perspective:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_...er_in_gate.html
Sergeant James Crowley, the Cambridge police officer who arrested Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. last week and touched off a firestorm of controversy, said today he would not agree to Gates's demand for an apology.
Crowley also said the arrest was not racially motivated. "I am not a racist," he said in an interview this evening in his hometown of Natick.
Crowley arrested Gates, a leading authority on African-American history, last Thursday during the investigation of a report of a break-in at Gates's home in Cambridge. The arrest happened just after Gates arrived home from the filming of a PBS documentary in China. His front door was stuck shut, and his taxi driver helped him pry it open.
According to the subsequent police report, a woman called to report two black men trying to force their way into a house. Crowley said in the report that Gates became disruptive and was arrested for disorderly conduct, but Gates has denied that he was disorderly.
Authorities abruptly dropped the charges Tuesday, but Gates today threatened a lawsuit and said Crowley should apologize to him. Gates also told his daughter in an interview posted on the Daily Beast website that he believed the officer had stereotyped, or racially profiled, him.
The incident made headlines around the country and even provoked a comment tonight from President Barack Obama, the nation's first black president. He criticized the Cambridge police in a news conference, saying they had acted "stupidly" in arresting Gates. Cambridge officials couldn't immediately be reached for comment. Crowley said he had no comment on the president's remarks.
A father of three who coaches youth basketball and plays on a local softball team, Crowley declined to comment in the afternoon, but spoke to a Globe reporter this evening.
Earlier today, a Cambridge police union expressed "full and unqualified support" for Crowley.
"Sergeant Crowley is a highly respected veteran supervisor with a distinguished record in the Cambridge Police Department," said the statement issued by the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, which represents 50 sergeants and lieutenants. "His actions at the scene of this matter were consistent with his training, with the informed policies and practices of the Department, and with applicable legal standards."
But the chairman of Harvard's Department of African and African American Studies released a letter to Gates, saying that his colleagues were "outraged" by the arrest.
"As your friend, co-author, co-teacher, and colleague, I can say honestly that in the many contexts in which I have seen you over many years, I have never known you to exhibit tumultuous or disorderly conduct," Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham wrote. "Racial profiling by the police has long been a subject of discussion by academics, lawyers, and ordinary citizens, and sensitivity sessions have clearly not yielded a transformed police force."
One of Crowley's neighbors, Ed Shagory, a retired attorney, said he has been friends with Crowley and his family for more than 17 years.
He said he was upset about the criticism levied against his friend, whom he supports in the dispute. "I think the world of him and his family," Shagory said.
He said he was disturbed by the intense worldwide, often sensational, media coverage on the case. His daughter, serving in Iraq, even read about the news, Shagory said.
"I think it should have been over and done with yesterday,'' he said, referring to the decision by the department to drop all charges. He also questioned Gates's announcement that his altercation with Crowley had inspired him to make a television documentary about racial profiling.
"I think the idea of him already planning a documentary is very premature, and a very unnecessary thing to say before all the facts are even in," Shagory said.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_...er_in_gate.html
Sergeant James Crowley, the Cambridge police officer who arrested Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. last week and touched off a firestorm of controversy, said today he would not agree to Gates's demand for an apology.
Crowley also said the arrest was not racially motivated. "I am not a racist," he said in an interview this evening in his hometown of Natick.
Crowley arrested Gates, a leading authority on African-American history, last Thursday during the investigation of a report of a break-in at Gates's home in Cambridge. The arrest happened just after Gates arrived home from the filming of a PBS documentary in China. His front door was stuck shut, and his taxi driver helped him pry it open.
According to the subsequent police report, a woman called to report two black men trying to force their way into a house. Crowley said in the report that Gates became disruptive and was arrested for disorderly conduct, but Gates has denied that he was disorderly.
Authorities abruptly dropped the charges Tuesday, but Gates today threatened a lawsuit and said Crowley should apologize to him. Gates also told his daughter in an interview posted on the Daily Beast website that he believed the officer had stereotyped, or racially profiled, him.
The incident made headlines around the country and even provoked a comment tonight from President Barack Obama, the nation's first black president. He criticized the Cambridge police in a news conference, saying they had acted "stupidly" in arresting Gates. Cambridge officials couldn't immediately be reached for comment. Crowley said he had no comment on the president's remarks.
A father of three who coaches youth basketball and plays on a local softball team, Crowley declined to comment in the afternoon, but spoke to a Globe reporter this evening.
Earlier today, a Cambridge police union expressed "full and unqualified support" for Crowley.
"Sergeant Crowley is a highly respected veteran supervisor with a distinguished record in the Cambridge Police Department," said the statement issued by the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, which represents 50 sergeants and lieutenants. "His actions at the scene of this matter were consistent with his training, with the informed policies and practices of the Department, and with applicable legal standards."
But the chairman of Harvard's Department of African and African American Studies released a letter to Gates, saying that his colleagues were "outraged" by the arrest.
"As your friend, co-author, co-teacher, and colleague, I can say honestly that in the many contexts in which I have seen you over many years, I have never known you to exhibit tumultuous or disorderly conduct," Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham wrote. "Racial profiling by the police has long been a subject of discussion by academics, lawyers, and ordinary citizens, and sensitivity sessions have clearly not yielded a transformed police force."
One of Crowley's neighbors, Ed Shagory, a retired attorney, said he has been friends with Crowley and his family for more than 17 years.
He said he was upset about the criticism levied against his friend, whom he supports in the dispute. "I think the world of him and his family," Shagory said.
He said he was disturbed by the intense worldwide, often sensational, media coverage on the case. His daughter, serving in Iraq, even read about the news, Shagory said.
"I think it should have been over and done with yesterday,'' he said, referring to the decision by the department to drop all charges. He also questioned Gates's announcement that his altercation with Crowley had inspired him to make a television documentary about racial profiling.
"I think the idea of him already planning a documentary is very premature, and a very unnecessary thing to say before all the facts are even in," Shagory said.
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Pat Patriot
Footballguy
I love how Obama prefaces his comments with, "I dont know all of the facts." and then goes on to say, "It is obvious that the Cambridge police acted stupidly." Way to tell everyone you are uninformed about the issue and then proceed to give an uninformed opinion. About par for the course I would say.
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
Ideally the homeowner simply provides ID, then goes about his day.In this case, the homeowner yelled and ranted, initially refusing to provide ID. That seems like a dumb move.
T
The Ghost of Common
Guest
Im trying to find the article. I saw the story on the news and eyewitnesses were talking about how Gates was making a scene from start to finish here, yelling out things about discrimination from the get go. I'll keep digging, I guess I imagined this - it was a television news segment but there's got to be a transcript somewhere...
snitwitch
Footballguy
If this is how this went down, the cops had every right to arrest him.
Fennis
Footballguy
He provided his ID. Then he was arrested for "yelling and ranting"
Witz
Footballguy
Devils - Your mind is already made up on this so why even talk through it. Show me one new story that said the police acted irrationally? Both the police accounts and neighbor accounts have stated Gates was the one acting irrationally.
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
This is consistent with how Obama handles most topics.
That sounds about right.
T
The Ghost of Common
Guest
Not a huge Obama guy, but not a basher either by any means.Bringing it up in the press conference was the worst move. It just gives more fodder to the race baiters and previously persecuted to continue to feel it is ok to live their lives so contentiously around the issue of race, instead of trying to make progress.I don't like it one bit.
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
He provided his ID after lengthy yelling and repeated pleas by the officer. Then Gates yelled, whined and screamed some more before he got arrested. I think you're intentionally distorting the facts.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
How, specifically, should they accomplish this?Should the people they find inside be asked to come outside? Should the police be allowed to search the house to secure the area first?
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Ignoramus
Footballguy
If this is how this went down, what criminal act was committed here?
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
Yep. Particularly if he hasn't learned the facts in advance.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
This isn't the point. Why was the phone call made in the first place? If Gates were white and wearing a suit with suitcase in hand (and a white limo driver) do you think it would have gone down the same way?
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Racial profiling? They didnt stop a random black guy driving or wandering around a rich neighborhood. The report was of 2 black men breaking into a house. The responded to the call and found a black man in the house and confronted him. How is that profiling him?The Ghost of Common said:
T
The Ghost of Common
Guest
Which would be shame on the neighbor for racial profiling, not the cop. She called the cops on suspcision of a B and E. Cops were performing a seemingly routine investigation based on that call.Why does the race issue fall on the cops lap and not the racial profiling neighbor?urbanhack said:
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DevilsTrifecta
Footballguy
You're right my mind is already made up so I'll stop talking about it. I've just seen firsthand cops treating my black/hispanic friends differently than my white friends that I have a bad taste in my mouth to begin with on stories like these. So I guess I have a pre-existing mindset when it comes to stuff like this.Witz said:
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
I'm guessing becauseA) his home had been broken into beforeurbanhack said:
B) his neighbor, aware of this, saw some people pushing in the door to gain access and called 911
CRAZY I know.
Witz
Footballguy
It is the point, so I'm not sure why you are ignoring it. Gates tried to gain access to the front door, than the back door and than pushed the front door in. By Gates own account, this is what he did. A neighbor witnessed this and called the police. Skin color has nothing to do if someone witnesses someone trying to gain access to a house and than forcing their way in.urbanhack said:
T
The Ghost of Common
Guest
If someone was seen "shouldering" your front and back doors trying to repeatedly gain access to your house without a key, would you want your neighbor to call the police regardless of whether it was a black man or 40 year old white female?
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
I'm not saying it does. I'm saying the circumstances and the entire incident is really unfortunate. I've read a few of his books and have seen him on TV quite a bit. I never got the impression he was a hot head.
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
Precisely.I would add -- why doesn't Gates know his neighbor? Not sure where he lives in Cambridge, so it's possible that his neighborhood is quite urban. But generally speaking, if he's in an area with houses, you would think his neighbor might recognize him.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
FYI, it was noon.
Witz
Footballguy
Wait, what? How is calling the police because you saw someone break into a house (and yes - Gates pushed his door open forceably with the use of a key - i.e. breaking and entering) racial profiling?
encaitar
Footballguy
Ah, got the AM and PM mixed up. Still, I would welcome my neighbors to call in any attempted break in of my house whether it were a gang of black men or a couple of 40 year old white men in suits.
T
The Ghost of Common
Guest
I don't think he is either. He just got off of a day long flight from China and couldn't get into his house. He was probably crabby as all hell to start off with. I know I would have been after that kind of travel.Get all the way home, all you want to do is lie down, and you lost your housekey. Now you have to deal with a friggin police officer whom are disliked by most of the general public to begin with for the way they can act.I dunno, I don't think he's a race baiter or bad guy, but I can easily see how he would start getting upset a lot quicker than usual.
Witz
Footballguy
You are probably right (about him not normally being a hot head). It was probably the combination of a long flight and the inability to get into your house that caused him to be upset. Trust me - we have all been there after a long day.
Ignoramus
Footballguy
Not so much. She thought someone was breaking in so she called the cops. She didn't walk in to the house and have the guy tell her it was his house.
T
The Ghost of Common
Guest
would I want my neighbors to call the cops if they saw someone "shouldering" my front door regardless of what they looked like? Yes.Are there people who would probably only make that call if it was 2 black men and not a 40 year old female or something? Absolutely.That's all I'm saying. If there's ANY case for racial profiling (and I don't feel that there is), it's on the neighbor.
Boston
Footballguy
I would add -- why doesn't Gates know his neighbor? Not sure where he lives in Cambridge, so it's possible that his neighborhood is quite urban. But generally speaking, if he's in an area with houses, you would think his neighbor might recognize him.
Cambridge is very thickly settled (as well as somewhat transient). It would not be uncommon for someone to not know someone who lives pretty close to him/her.
Cambridge is very thickly settled (as well as somewhat transient). It would not be uncommon for someone to not know someone who lives pretty close to him/her.
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Not meaning to hijack but I'm black, live in a upper middle class neighborhood and got pulled over making a right turn out my sub. Cop saw me pull out my driveway onto the street and make the right turn. Cop pulls me over, approaches my car and the first question he asks is, "Can I see proof of income?" I said 
I'm still pissed just thinking about it.
I'm still pissed just thinking about it.
T
The Ghost of Common
Guest
Hmm so am I...and I've run into many similar issues.I've also grown up in more liberal areas of the country. 9 times out of 10, I find as long as I am polite, respectful and have all of the papers you're supposed to have in your vehicle, a police officer will treat you with respect.The 1 out of 10 that want to bust your balls could be racist, or they could be just like any of the other ######## cops that are out there giving everyone a hard time for no other reason than being on a powertrip.ETA: Everyone's experiences are different though, I realize that.Not meaning to hijack but I'm black, live in a upper middle class neighborhood and got pulled over making a right turn out my sub. Cop saw me pull out my driveway onto the street and make the right turn. Cop pulls me over, approaches my car and the first question he asks is, "Can I see proof of income?" I said
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KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
This is an interest fact pattern, although not very relevant.Not meaning to hijack but I'm black, live in a upper middle class neighborhood and got pulled over making a right turn out my sub. Cop saw me pull out my driveway onto the street and make the right turn. Cop pulls me over, approaches my car and the first question he asks is, "Can I see proof of income?" I said
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