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2021 Cleveland Browns -


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1 hour ago, The_Man said:

Ravens fan here, I actually thought the Browns showed some promising signs but the game just got away from them. OBJ dropping that first down conversion led to a 10-point (or more) swing and then the 99-yard drive put the game into trash time. Once they abandoned Chubb, it was over.

But I was very impressed with both running backs. For the entire first half, if the Ravens DL didn't stuff the play at the line, they were immediately into the secondary. The Ravens' LBs weren't making any plays on the RBs. It felt really strange how much they forced the ball to OBJ, they were much more successful doing literally anything else.

Also the Run D shut down the Ravens running attack big time. Maybe they were overloading the box and daring Baltimore to beat them throwing the ball - which they did, but it's a sensible strategy. This was the offense that shattered a 40-year old rushing record by averaging 200+ ypg last year and they didn't crack 100 until the end. Special teams were a disaster in every phase. 

Depending on the spread, I might actually beat on Cleveland this week. I think it was a growing pains game and that the Browns are better than they showed.

Thanks for your pity but I'll have none of it :D

Your team beat us in every phase of the game and pretty soundly. Your boys look like they didn't lose a step from last year.

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14 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

There a reason we aren't talking to Eric Reid right now? Asking for a friend

There's a reason we traded for Ronnie Harrison and I think we saw it yesterday. Only question is whether we'll see more of him Thursday or not til week 3.

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22 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

There's a reason we traded for Ronnie Harrison and I think we saw it yesterday. Only question is whether we'll see more of him Thursday or not til week 3.

From what I saw yesterday, we have room for both and any friends they might have.

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10 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

From what I saw yesterday, we have room for both and any friends they might have.

Don't disagree, especially cause we lost Jacob Phillips for a long time too. May not be worth it til the long week on the other side though. 

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Cutting the kicker after getting crushed in Week 1 seems like a move bad teams make. I mean, yeah, you can’t have kickers missing field goals and extra points, but when you lose by 32 points, sacrificing the kicker seems awfully hollow. It’s not like he missed a 35 point field goal.

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21 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

I disagree. This is a great opportunity to see how they all bounce back through some adversity. This is reality in the NFL. How will you react to some things beyond your control going sideways? 

Short weeks lack time to recover from normal wear and tear let alone injuries.  

If we had a standard NFL rookie/mini/training camp and preseason we could have had a 'feel' heading into that first game.  

Historically short weeks are the worst games of the week and that is due to fatigue, bumps/bruises/injuries.

Its a bad game to evaluate where the team is and its not just about the Browns, we might look good at some area that is beat up or we might look bad for the same reason providing a 'false positive/negative'.

Former Miami MLB Zach Thomas said that defenses tend to be healthy and have 'tighter' fits in run defenses because guys are healthy and in position for the first five weeks but that once bumps and bruises pile up those 'tight fits' get loose because one guy is a step slower, and then another guy, etc.  

Short weeks are not good to evaluate where a team is.

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59 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Short weeks are not good to evaluate where a team is.

Maybe not but as a friend of mine likes to say, "it might not be the day you want but it's the day you got." I'll be evaluating them.

11 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

Cutting the kicker after getting crushed in Week 1 seems like a move bad teams make. I mean, yeah, you can’t have kickers missing field goals and extra points, but when you lose by 32 points, sacrificing the kicker seems awfully hollow. It’s not like he missed a 35 point field goal.

Plenty of spots to point the finger but I won't lose sleep about cutting Seibert. Just like I won't when they cut Parky. We haven't had a dependable kicker in years. 31 other teams seem to have figured it out at that position (except maybe the Titans). I feel like we can figure this out with the horsepower in the front office but it seems elusive to the Browns. Kinda like winning.

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Just now, beer 30 said:
1 hour ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Short weeks are not good to evaluate where a team is.

Maybe not but as a friend of mine likes to say, "it might not be the day you want but it's the day you got." I'll be evaluating them.

Short weeks are the worst games of the week for good reason. 

Belichick said he doesn't know what sort of a team he has until the 5th game and he said that well before COVID.

Over reactions are based on evaluations with bad data.

What sort of conclusions do you expect from evaluating the game this week that you don't already know or suspect?  OBJ/Baker chemistry issue?  LBers/DBs/overall D suspect?  O-Line with rookies and injuries ain't looking good?  Clock ticking on rookie HC?  Should he be calling plays?  I can already see the sports headlines.

I'm not thinking we'll see groundbreaking concrete analysis based off short week early in the season but people will definitely be evaluating and drawing conclusions.

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Just now, Bracie Smathers said:

Short weeks are the worst games of the week for good reason. 

Belichick said he doesn't know what sort of a team he has until the 5th game and he said that well before COVID.

Over reactions are based on evaluations with bad data.

What sort of conclusions do you expect from evaluating the game this week that you don't already know or suspect?  OBJ/Baker chemistry issue?  LBers/DBs/overall D suspect?  O-Line with rookies and injuries ain't looking good?  Clock ticking on rookie HC?  Should he be calling plays?  I can already see the sports headlines.

I'm not thinking we'll see groundbreaking concrete analysis based off short week early in the season but people will definitely be evaluating and drawing conclusions.

Beckham to remove his head from his ###. A more decisive Baker. Rhythm. A forceful defensive front. Assertiveness in the secondary; not playing on your heels. 

I agree that early conclusions about one's team cannot be drawn until at least sometime in October, but what happens Thursday is a part of that puzzle.

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2 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Beckham to remove his head from his ###. A more decisive Baker. Rhythm. A forceful defensive front. Assertiveness in the secondary; not playing on your heels. 

I agree that early conclusions about one's team cannot be drawn until at least sometime in October, but what happens Thursday is a part of that puzzle.

Then we agree unless you are just dying to disagree in which case why?

 

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16 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Short weeks are the worst games of the week for good reason. 

Belichick said he doesn't know what sort of a team he has until the 5th game and he said that well before COVID.

Over reactions are based on evaluations with bad data.

What sort of conclusions do you expect from evaluating the game this week that you don't already know or suspect?  OBJ/Baker chemistry issue?  LBers/DBs/overall D suspect?  O-Line with rookies and injuries ain't looking good?  Clock ticking on rookie HC?  Should he be calling plays?  I can already see the sports headlines.

I'm not thinking we'll see groundbreaking concrete analysis based off short week early in the season but people will definitely be evaluating and drawing conclusions.

Progress on fixing all the things you mentioned. I'm not making a "sit Baker for Keenum" or "trade Beckham" decision off this game but I need to see improvement on all those fronts to at least have some confidence in this team going forward. I don't think that's too much to ask, short week or not. 31 other teams have to do the same thing this year. I want to see them get better and get competitive.

That doesn't exactly translate to them winning the game either although it sure would be nice to see a victory on Thursday night. I need to see progress and addressing the issues we saw in game 1. We've all seen losing at a level unprecedented in the NFL throughout our fandom. I'd like to see them get the running game going, stick with it and dominate on both lines. That alone would be an improvement over Sunday and open up a lot of possibilities.

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Just now, Judge Smails said:

What a massive disappointment this team is.  Team tanked for years, hoarded 1st rounders, loaded up on both sides of the ball, bring in Landry and OBJ, talks of 12-4 last year, laid an egg, now embarrassed in week 1.  They need to make Chubb their Henry.  

Dorsey acquired a collection of talent; he didn't build a team. Putting that puzzle together is going to take more time than most have the patience for.

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Running game is what we thought it could be.

Defense didn't have a bounce-back game.  Two data points, giving up 68 points in first two games.  Just bad.

OBJ isn't dead.  Rookie TE is impressing.  Rookie OLT very-impressive.  

Kick coverage is a problem.  Myles is awesome.  

WFT got 8 sacks against banged-up Philly O-Line in their opener.  Chase Young, Ryan Kerrigan, and Montez Sweat their first round draft pick from last year are going to be a good test.  

Hopefully the extra time to heal will be enough to get Olivier Vernon and Adrian Clayborn, and Greedy back because that defense can't be giving up 30 burgers every week.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/18/2020 at 9:39 AM, Bracie Smathers said:

Running game is what we thought it could be.  - Did fine against a D-line that had an injury to a major player but our run game is legit built on strength of best tandem RBs in the NFL, a very-good O-Line, a solid scheme and commitment, and one of the best O-Line coaches.

Defense didn't have a bounce-back game.  Two data points, giving up 68 points in first two games.  Just bad. - Faced Haskins who helped a great deal but it was a bounce, probably a dead cat bounce but a bounce.  This week is a real test and Dak is scary-mobile.

OBJ isn't dead.  Rookie TE is impressing.  Rookie OLT very-impressive.  - OBJ is fine but the scheme is set up for run.  Rookie TE got his first score, nice.  Rookie OT had a bad quarter but Baker didn't do him any favors either.

Kick coverage is a problem.  Myles is awesome.  - Kick coverage 'may' have improved.  Myles is super-duper awesome.

WFT got 8 sacks against banged-up Philly O-Line in their opener.  Chase Young, Ryan Kerrigan, and Montez Sweat their first round draft pick from last year are going to be a good test.  - WFT has a legit pass rush and they got to Baker.  Sweat is coming on, pick him up if available in IDP leagues.

Hopefully the extra time to heal will be enough to get Olivier Vernon and Adrian Clayborn, and Greedy back because that defense can't be giving up 30 burgers every week. - Oliver hasn't done anything this year.  Clayborn got a pressure and is a great pick-up.  Greedy has been a disappointment.  Hopefully he can get back and contribute.

First game Lamar Jackson mobile QB tore our secondary apart.  Burrows a mobile QB did the same.  Haskins was terrible.  Dak ripped Seattle apart with his arm and legs.  Hopefully Myles can grab a shirt     tail - VIDEO  🎥

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DT Sheldon Richardson has looked great so-far this year.  Ogun has looked much better as well but just saw this from PFF about our rookie 3rd round draft pick DT:

Quote

The Browns look like they got one of the steals of the draft in third-round defensive tackle Jordan Elliott. His 77.0 overall grade is the highest of any rookie with at least 50 snaps — don’t be surprised to see his snap counts rise as the season wears on after playing only 82 through three games.

I haven't noticed him but our run-D is pretty good this year.  We'll get a big time test with Zeke Sunday but has anyone noticed the rookie 3rd round DT Jordan Elliot?  PFF seems to like him and say he is playing better than any rookie with 50 snaps.  Highest of ANY ROOKIE.  

Anyone have a take on the kid?

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21 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

DT Sheldon Richardson has looked great so-far this year.  Ogun has looked much better as well but just saw this from PFF about our rookie 3rd round draft pick DT:

I haven't noticed him but our run-D is pretty good this year.  We'll get a big time test with Zeke Sunday but has anyone noticed the rookie 3rd round DT Jordan Elliot?  PFF seems to like him and say he is playing better than any rookie with 50 snaps.  Highest of ANY ROOKIE.  

Anyone have a take on the kid?

Like you, haven't noticed him. Will be looking for #61 on the field Sunday though. Our DL has been quietly getting the job done the last few weeks. A couple of splash plays but no 5 sack games. They should have the last two weeks so I've been more focused on the OL than the DL but I think that flips this week.

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Well played, well coached game. No one should have thought the defense was going to keep them in a game so no surprise from that side of the ball although our DL is above average with Myles back. One thing to remember when everyone is complaining about all the DL on the team, remember how gassed our guys looked at the end of the game. That's why you need a bunch.

Offense clicked on all cylinders. Aside form a couple of errant throws from Baker, not sure they could have played a much better game. Finally, hat tip to coach and his staff, players bought in, coach isn't calling dumb#### plays, amazing what happens when competency enters the equation.

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On 9/14/2020 at 12:22 PM, The_Man said:

Ravens fan here, I actually thought the Browns showed some promising signs but the game just got away from them. OBJ dropping that first down conversion led to a 10-point (or more) swing and then the 99-yard drive put the game into trash time. Once they abandoned Chubb, it was over.

But I was very impressed with both running backs. For the entire first half, if the Ravens DL didn't stuff the play at the line, they were immediately into the secondary. The Ravens' LBs weren't making any plays on the RBs. It felt really strange how much they forced the ball to OBJ, they were much more successful doing literally anything else.

Also the Run D shut down the Ravens running attack big time. Maybe they were overloading the box and daring Baltimore to beat them throwing the ball - which they did, but it's a sensible strategy. This was the offense that shattered a 40-year old rushing record by averaging 200+ ypg last year and they didn't crack 100 until the end. Special teams were a disaster in every phase. 

Depending on the spread, I might actually beat on Cleveland this week. I think it was a growing pains game and that the Browns are better than they showed.

Told you they were good. Except that pass D is a disaster - how could they not give Earl Thomas a one-year make-good deal that would let him try to get revenge on the Ravens? Hope Chubb is better soon. The NFL is way more fun to watch when he's in it

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1 hour ago, The_Man said:

Told you they were good. Except that pass D is a disaster - how could they not give Earl Thomas a one-year make-good deal that would let him try to get revenge on the Ravens? Hope Chubb is better soon. The NFL is way more fun to watch when he's in it

Culture matters and the Browns have not yet established one. I'm not going to bang the table for any volatile asset until sometime after that happens. 

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I'd like to ask a question without getting too many howls and hisses and again it's just a question...what would happen if the Browns traded for someone else's QB?

What if Cleveland for example could trade for DeShaun Watson? What would a better QB do for the Browns because I think they would instantly become a playoff team. Like it or not they have to beat Baltimore and Pittsburgh in order to get to where they want to go. Lamar Jackson has cemented the Ravens for the next 5 years and beyond let's say, might be a decade who knows? What is Cleveland going to do to counterpunch? Continue to develop Mayfield or try and hide him or not expose his limits with a power running game(a very good one I might add). 

This is one of the more reasonable fan bases that I have long identified with because of the misery of the last 2 decades in Miami. Do you understand why I am asking? Cleveland has a really good team in most areas and I just wonder if the ceiling is the QB at this point. 

Edited by Ministry of Pain
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5 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

I'd like to ask a question without getting too many howls and hisses and again it's just a question...what would happen if the Browns traded for someone else's QB?

What if Cleveland for example could trade for DeShaun Watson? What would a better QB do for the Browns because I think they would instantly become a playoff team. Like it or not they have to beat Baltimore and Pittsburgh in order to get to where they want to go. Lamar Jackson has cemented the Ravens for the next 5 years and beyond let's say, might be a decade who knows? What is Cleveland going to do to counterpunch? Continue to develop Mayfield or try and hide him or not expose his limits with a power running game(a very good one I might add). 

This is one of the more reasonable fan bases that I have long identified with because of the misery of the last 2 decades in Miami. Do you understand why I am asking? Cleveland has a really good team in most areas and I just wonder if the ceiling is the QB at this point. 

Its not 'totally' unreasonable but its not going to happen, neither is us picking up a 7-time Pro Bowl safety who is sitting out their for only $1 million minimal cap hit.  

DeSaun's salary makes the cap hit untenable for Houston and a cap-killer for any team in-need.

Browns 'can win' with Baker.  

This week Mayfield faces a new test with Indy's defense.

------------------------------------------

Zach Hicks@ZachHicks2

The Colts defense under Matt Eberflus has now held an opponent under 15 points 12 times since 2018. That’s 31% of the games he has coached over that time span. If the defense keeps this play up all year, he’s on track for a Head Coaching gig soon

-----------------------------------------

The week after he faces Pittsburgh's - D.  

Ask again in two weeks and we 'should' know more at that time.

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21 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

What if Cleveland for example could trade for DeShaun Watson? What would a better QB do for the Browns because I think they would instantly become a playoff team. Like it or not they have to beat Baltimore and Pittsburgh in order to get to where they want to go. Lamar Jackson has cemented the Ravens for the next 5 years and beyond let's say, might be a decade who knows? What is Cleveland going to do to counterpunch? Continue to develop Mayfield or try and hide him or not expose his limits with a power running game(a very good one I might add). 

@Bracie Smathers brings logic and reason to these discussions...I don't. Lets assume the numbers align to make it possible.

I guess my question would be why? Lemme explain...Baker is on his 4th? HC and 3rd? offensive scheme in his short 3 year career. Absolutely no continuity so do we even really know what his ceiling is? Remember his rookie year setting the NFL on fire, coming back to the league his sophomore season and here we are in 2020 with some kinda hybrid so far. Right now, with the currently constructed team (run heavy w/play action) you need a game manager. Baker is more than capable to do this and while he is doing this, continue to open up the playbook and allow him to do more. You saw this last week against Dallas. The browns used 4 RB's, none over 100 yards and amassed 300+ yards on the ground. You involved all of your big name receivers (Laundry, OBJ, Hooper) and Mayfield had an even 100 QB rating.

I get that we have an above average WR corp but I don't see the need to make a change at QB in order to make the playoffs. I think we make the playoffs as is (assuming no major injuries and Chubb is major but we're deep at the position). I hate that the world looks at the NFL from a fantasy perspective rather than a win the game perspective. The Browns have instituted a system that is based on a run heavy scheme. This requires the entire offense to buy in and understand their role. WR's need to block downfield, the OL needs to trap, pull and get downfield in order to have success and they are! Why rock the bhote and bring in a QB that will arguably put up better passing stats but be forced to have to carry more of the load? What do you gain by bringing in DeShaun Watson that you are not getting from Mayfield right now? Little more mobility in the pocket? Maybe a better deep ball? Neither are setting me on fire to move off Mayfield.

Now, as the esteemed Mr. Smathers pointed out, we have some real challenges coming up in the next two weeks. I expect both games to be competitive and can see a path to victory...and defeat... for the Browns. Personally i think we split, losing to Indy and beating the Stillers. Let's revisit this after these next two games and see where we are at.

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my two cents, they are going to load up the defense next off season.  
 

the offense will be good enough to win if they can get the defense up to par.  

 

so far the defense has at least been getting take aways.  let's see if they can keep that up.

Edited by amnesiac
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2 hours ago, amnesiac said:

my two cents, they are going to load up the defense next off season.  
 

the offense will be good enough to win if they can get the defense up to par.  

 

so far the defense has at least been getting take aways.  let's see if they can keep that up.

:yes:

This year was always about figuring out if Baker is the guy. Needed to give him the resources to prove it, so we came into the year intentionally thin on defense. Then suffered injuries where we couldn't. 

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to 2021 Cleveland Browns -

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