Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
Clever.
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Cleveland Browns (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
- Start date
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
Look at his "confident" picks, Wade could use some bonus points.No trolling needed either. *bonus points* for Wade.
Angry Beavers
Footballguy
Hillis already ruled out for Sunday!!!
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Dawson's FG was more inside the uprights than Karlis' kick in the '87 Championship Game. 
Not Sure
Footballguy
I thought this was interesting:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Aqijpn.KvKLLdHHHMG4xPXhDubYF?slug=ms-silver_colt_mccoy_browns_brian_daboll_112411
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Aqijpn.KvKLLdHHHMG4xPXhDubYF?slug=ms-silver_colt_mccoy_browns_brian_daboll_112411
NJDawgPound
Footballguy
Wow. I liked Daboll for a brief period when he was getting blood out of a stone with last year's offense, but overall, it was like Maurice Carthon all over again with the offense. He just wasn't a likable guy, but I don't need to like the offensive coordinator, or even the head coach as long as the team wins. But now this makes me HATE him. I understand riding a young guy's rear end to toughen him up, but this crap is way over the line. I'm pulling for Colt. He's got the it factor. If only he had an arm on him.
Jury's still out for me on Colt though.
eric rymer
Footballguy
agreed. i'm for a little tough love but dude is an ### clown
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Not Sure
Footballguy
I agree as well.
nxmehta
Footballguy
What I want to know is, how the #### are we hearing about this from a Yahoo reporter in November 2011? Where the #### was the Cleveland media for the last year? No one noticed Daboll taking a #### on McCoy? Or they just chose not to report it?I hate this style of "coaching", it's obscene. Someone should try to coach up one of Daboll's kids like this and we'll see how big bad Brian takes it. Anyone can be a bully. Not a lot of people can coach, and Daboll obviously couldn't.'Not Sure said:
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Dought Man
Footballguy
Hillis coming back to save the season.. 
NJDawgPound
Footballguy
Hey if Hillis comes back with his head firmly removed from his keester and is a good teammate, tough, and productive, I'm willing to give him another shot at a reasonable amount. As Grossi said on Cleveland.com I think the loss of Eric Steinbach was devastating to the running game. We'll hopefully have him back next year.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
I guess.So I guess we played better? That's good.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
I think Hillis reminded everyone that he is the best RB on the roster by a wide margin.
NJDawgPound
Footballguy
It's a different team with Hillis in the lineup. He did well; as he gets his strength back I would think he'll be breaking some of those tackles like last year.
I'd like to put the crap from earlier in the year behind us and see us give him a second chance. IF he cut out the prima donna stuff for good.
I'd like to put the crap from earlier in the year behind us and see us give him a second chance. IF he cut out the prima donna stuff for good.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
I see enough positives for now. Let's face it, we need the best draft pick possible at this point to get the playmaker we want. Last year we were just good enough to miss out on them and that's why we traded down. If we were 7-4 right now we wouldn't be a SB contender anyways.
The Bengals are doing exactly what many of us thought the Browns would be doing this year. I think the Bengals are barely better than us, evident by the games and how they were won/lost. We've pissed a few other games away as well. These young players have to learn how to win together.
And Cribbs is starting to annoy me with his comments. Shut up and return something.
The Bengals are doing exactly what many of us thought the Browns would be doing this year. I think the Bengals are barely better than us, evident by the games and how they were won/lost. We've pissed a few other games away as well. These young players have to learn how to win together.
And Cribbs is starting to annoy me with his comments. Shut up and return something.
NJDawgPound
Footballguy
I've completely lost confidence in this regime. I think Holmgren has shown anything but leadership, and if he was going to use Mangini as a sacrificial lamb, he should have just fired him when he came in and maybe we'd be a year ahead of where we are now. Shurmur has proven to be garbage.
The only one I have a modicum of faith in is **** Jauron. Heckert has been okay but would a couple of free agents have killed us?
That said, we're picking 4th as of right now, and then probably 20-25 with Atlanta's pick.
If it were up to me I'd work something out with Hillis and give him a do-over, draft Justin Blackmon with the #4, and see if we can get back up somehow to get Robert Griffin III. I am usually a build from the trenches out kinda guy but I think getting Steinbach back will help. And a year's experience for the D will help as well.
We need playmakers.
And we need an offensive coordinator. Shurmur is in over his head.
I'm fed up and frustrated. AGAIN.
The only one I have a modicum of faith in is **** Jauron. Heckert has been okay but would a couple of free agents have killed us?
That said, we're picking 4th as of right now, and then probably 20-25 with Atlanta's pick.
If it were up to me I'd work something out with Hillis and give him a do-over, draft Justin Blackmon with the #4, and see if we can get back up somehow to get Robert Griffin III. I am usually a build from the trenches out kinda guy but I think getting Steinbach back will help. And a year's experience for the D will help as well.
We need playmakers.
And we need an offensive coordinator. Shurmur is in over his head.
I'm fed up and frustrated. AGAIN.
NJDawgPound
Footballguy
Blackmon and Little would be a similar combo as Fitz and Boldin were in AZ I think.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'd be willing to move on from Colt for RG3, and only RG3. There are no other upgrades in this draft. Potentially significant ones anyway. If RG3 goes before us, or if we decide to pass on RG3 in favor of staying with Colt we need Richardson or Blackmon. The hard part will be figuring out who will be available. If Blackmon won't be there then we should let Hillis walk, pick Richardson, and target Kendall Wright. If Blackmon is going to be there we should re-sign Hillis and pick Blackmon. I'm very apprehensive about fixing WR in free agency, so Blackmon or Wright are essential. If he falls into the late teens/20's Michael Floyd is an option too.
If we do go with RG3 then get his college teammate (or Floyd) too.
I have players I like/dislike too but as long as we end up with one of those combos I'll be satisfied.
All that rant said, I have 0 faith in Shurmer, and see no reason for that to change. So all of this is moot. I just want us to become more entertaining if we're going to lose. Too much to ask?
If we do go with RG3 then get his college teammate (or Floyd) too.
I have players I like/dislike too but as long as we end up with one of those combos I'll be satisfied.
All that rant said, I have 0 faith in Shurmer, and see no reason for that to change. So all of this is moot. I just want us to become more entertaining if we're going to lose. Too much to ask?
Fensalk
Footballguy
The Browns will have a very tough schedule in 2012. The Browns draw the NFC East and AFC West. They've got away games at the Giants, Cowboys, Raiders, and Chargers. That's probably 4 losses right there. 4 more losses to the Steelers and Ravens as well. Probably at least 1 Bengal loss. They are also drawing the Eagles, Redskins, Broncos and Chiefs at home and the Colts away. Undetermined is whether they get a home game vs the Bills or Dolphins (they will draw whichever one of them finishes last in the AFC East, both are 5-9).Looking at that schedule, I'd say they win 5 games in 2012.5 wins will be BengalsChiefs@ColtsBills/DolphinsRedskins?11 losses will be
Cowboys@Giants@Chargers@Raiders@SteelersSteelers@RavensRavens@BengalsEaglesBroncosThey could just as easily lose the Bengal game, the Redskin game, the Dolphins game, and wind up with 2 wins.
Fensalk
Footballguy
The Steelers incidentally are going to have a tough schedule. They also travel to the Cowboys, Giants, Raiders, and Chargers. The Ravens get ALL 4 of those opponents at home. The Steelers also look like they will lose 1 home game because that game is going to be played in London in 2012.
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NJDawgPound
Footballguy
Wow, that's a tough schedule.
If Manning is back, the only win I'm counting on is the one at home vs. the Bills or the Dolphins.
I want the franchise QB now. Give me Griffin III and either Alshon Jeffrey or Michael Floyd and I'm thrilled. I love Blackmon too, but don't know how realistic it would be getting Griffin AND one of these other guys. Resign Hillis and a Sproles-type and this offense takes off.
Thanks for the effort and heart Colt, but it's not gonna happen here.
If Manning is back, the only win I'm counting on is the one at home vs. the Bills or the Dolphins.
I want the franchise QB now. Give me Griffin III and either Alshon Jeffrey or Michael Floyd and I'm thrilled. I love Blackmon too, but don't know how realistic it would be getting Griffin AND one of these other guys. Resign Hillis and a Sproles-type and this offense takes off.
Thanks for the effort and heart Colt, but it's not gonna happen here.
Fensalk
Footballguy
Here's my question about the Browns. They don't have a franchise QB. They probably don't even have a game manager. Yet they have 496 passing attempts to only 375 rushing attempts. I can't think of one successful head coach that would be throwing this much without a QB. Even Holmgren was run-first with Alexander in Seattle in Hasselbeck's early years. Seattle's 2005 super bowl team was run-first. 519 rushing attempts to 474 passing attempts.
NJDawgPound
Footballguy
I think losing Steinbach killed us. I think with a healthy Steinbach, even Ogbonnaya could have been an 1100 yard or so back.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Todd McShay's Top 5...
1. Colts - Andrew Luck, QB Stanford
2. Rams - Matt Kalil, OT USC
3. Vikings - Morris Claiborne, CB LSU
4. Browns - Trent Richardson, RB Alabama
5. Jaguars - Quinton Coples, DE North Carolina
On Richardson...
"Richardson is a more complete back than former Crimson Tide teammate Mark Ingram, the No. 28 pick to New Orleans in 2011. Richardson has a rare combination of size, speed, power, agility, burst and versatility, and is the rare exception to the don't-take-an-RB-in-the-top-10 rule."
1. Colts - Andrew Luck, QB Stanford
2. Rams - Matt Kalil, OT USC
3. Vikings - Morris Claiborne, CB LSU
4. Browns - Trent Richardson, RB Alabama
5. Jaguars - Quinton Coples, DE North Carolina
On Richardson...
"Richardson is a more complete back than former Crimson Tide teammate Mark Ingram, the No. 28 pick to New Orleans in 2011. Richardson has a rare combination of size, speed, power, agility, burst and versatility, and is the rare exception to the don't-take-an-RB-in-the-top-10 rule."
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
They're averaging 3.6/carry which is good for 31st in the league. You know about the injuries. It's a lot easier to be run first when the run is actually working. Also, Seattle's 2005 team was usually playing with a lead. That said, I hate that I keep seeing Richardson projected as the Browns pick. You don't build around RBs anymore. Jacksonville has the league's leading rusher and it's gotten them 4 wins. The Browns have to get a QB that can take them somewhere.
Fensalk
Footballguy
**** Vermiel took the Chiefs job and the first thing he did was look around, notice he didn't have a franchise QB, trade for Priest Holmes and run the ball down everyone's throat. They were like that from 2001-2006. How has the league changed since 2006?
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Bobcat10
Footballguy
Barkley now as well.Certainly we're going to be in position to take "playmakers" in this draft. Whether we do or not is another question. I hate to say it...but maybe another trade down is going to be a good play in this draft. It's loaded at WR. I'm not talking about trading into the 20's like last year...but maybe somewhere in the top 15 (assuming we have the 4th or 5th pick). The Atlanta pick is going to be value to us wherever it ends up...mid 20s is fine. Once we lost out on AJ and Peterson last year we made the right move IMO.Really disappointed in Shurmur. Still fine with ****, Holmgren, and Heckert. Questioning whether this is the last straw for Lerner. I mean, if this bombs out again over the next few years...what other options does he have besides selling the team? How could he make another "splash" like he did with Holmgren (and even Mangini if you think of it that way)? I'm also still not totally sold that Holmgren is done on the sidelines...as crazy as that may seem...or maybe not so crazy.
Fensalk
Footballguy
The one thing Lerner has never tried is hiring a head coach that is a proven winner in the NFL. None of the coaches since the return in 99...Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, nor Pat Shurmur, have that credential. That's why I wanted Schottenheimer back when Lerner chose Mangini. I was hoping when Holmgren came in here that he'd coach the team, maybe not for a long time but enough to get the franchise to learn how to win again.Even Holmgren, in his current capacity as team president, is a rookie.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Well Randy wasn't responsible for all of those listed...just to be fair. I'm not sure how Schotty would have worked either...but you have a point. He actually did it right this time, hire a football person to hire the football people...but Holmgren seems to have dropped the ball with regards to the HC. I still don't understand why he didn't offer someone like Gruden the world to come here. Maybe it was never in the cards...I know he likes being in the booth...but I really would have liked to been a fly on the wall during that (or those) conversation(s)...I do think they happened.
nxmehta
Footballguy
Actually, you're right... and think about how many championships they won in that span. DOMINANT.'Fensalk said:
In the last 20 years, how many teams have won a Super Bowl without a Pro Bowl type QB? I count Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson. Still want to go ahead with the "build around an RB" plan?
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nxmehta
Footballguy
I think you're right here. If the Browns are not enamored with a QB at the top of the draft (with Barkley out now, it'd have to be RG3), then we are moving down. I suppose there's a remote chance we could get a DE like Couples. Heckert has said before that he believes that there are a few positions that you have to get high in the first... DE, OT, CB, and QB. QB and DE I could see, but we are good at CB and LT, so I think trading down is likely and prudent.If we could end up with three firsts or maybe 2 firsts and 2 seconds, we'd have a MAJOR influx of talent. Couple that with 1-2 big name free agents (which is sounds like Heckert is open to next year), a full offseason of preparation under the same system, and we might start to turn the corner.
NJDawgPound
Footballguy
Dear Santa,
I have been a good boy this year. I would like the following for Christmas:
-An offensive coordinator as my head coach is in over his head handling head coaching duties and playcalling.
-The Steelers to be one and done in the playoffs because of the injury to Big Ben that we caused.
-A new Special Teams Coordinator. Boy do I miss Brad Seely.
-Robert Griffin III. I know he's a spread QB, but he's accurate, clutch, and actually has an NFL caliber arm. His intangibles are off the chart.
-**** Jauron to have a productive offseason with this defense and continue to build around D'Qwell, Ward, Haden, Taylor, and Sheard.
-A healthy Eric Steinbach back.
-Not to create another need by letting Hillis walk.
-The Browns, from ballboy to Holmgren and Lerner, to learn from the McCoy debacle and immediately operate on and off the field with class. We still are the butt of staph infection jokes.
-Someone unexpected to step up and be a playmaker next year.
Thank you,
NJDawgPound
I have been a good boy this year. I would like the following for Christmas:
-An offensive coordinator as my head coach is in over his head handling head coaching duties and playcalling.
-The Steelers to be one and done in the playoffs because of the injury to Big Ben that we caused.
-A new Special Teams Coordinator. Boy do I miss Brad Seely.
-Robert Griffin III. I know he's a spread QB, but he's accurate, clutch, and actually has an NFL caliber arm. His intangibles are off the chart.
-**** Jauron to have a productive offseason with this defense and continue to build around D'Qwell, Ward, Haden, Taylor, and Sheard.
-A healthy Eric Steinbach back.
-Not to create another need by letting Hillis walk.
-The Browns, from ballboy to Holmgren and Lerner, to learn from the McCoy debacle and immediately operate on and off the field with class. We still are the butt of staph infection jokes.
-Someone unexpected to step up and be a playmaker next year.
Thank you,
NJDawgPound
Fallerjw
Footballguy
This has been a pretty frustrating year, but I do see some potential. The Browns have two losses by 3 points and another by only 1 point. Defense has kept the team in most games this year (they lost 4 games where the opposing team scored less than 21 points). There is no doubt that the offense needs some help (they scored more than 20 points exactly 1 time so far this year).
Here's my take on where they stand by unit:
Offense
1. OL - Assuming Steinbach comes back healthy, the line should be much better next year. They need to get a good RT, and then have a competition for RG. The OL should be solid in 2012.
2. WR - If Little can cut back on drops, he looks like a capable #2. Norwood seems like a decent slot guy. MoMass and Cribbs are OK as #4 and #5 WRs. The big hole is #1 WR. They need a playmaker at this position in the worst way. I think Blackmon would be a great fit, but a FA like DeSean Jackson or Dwayne Bowe might fit nice also.
3. RB - My opinion is that they Browns should sign Hillis. If they had a decent passing game and the line was improved, the running game would take care of itself. I think they also have Brandon Jackson on IR, plus Ogbonaya and Hardesty. IMO, this is one of the last positions they should address, unless they can go back to resign Vickers and have the Marecic pick back.
4. TE - I think the TE group is adequate. No big playmakers, but not a pressing need.
5. QB - Probably the most controversial position on the team. My preference would be to allow McCoy 1 more year with an improved OL and WRs. Give him a couple of weapons and see if he would succeed. If I take this route I draft a QB like Kellen Moore in round 4 to learn behind him. If through the process of scouting, the team thinks RGIII is a franchise QB, then they should take him early and build around him.
Defense
1. DL - Possibly the strongest unit on the team. If they can pick up a solid right DE, they will be very, very good.
2. LB - Signing DQ should be a priority this offseason. He needs to stay in the middle of the defense. Also, keep Gocong where he is. Fill the third spot with somebody other than Fujita or Maiava. Get a playmaker at this spot and the front 7 looks really strong.
3. DB - Haden and Ward are entrenched, but the other 2 spots are wide open. I'm not sure Skrine or Patterson are ready to be a #2, but both seem fine for a nickel or dime role. The second safety position needs addressed as well.
Priority:
1. #1 WR - the WRs have been a joke for a few years, and it's time for a change
2. RT - Pashos is not cutting it
3. #2 CB - Haden is good, but can only cover 1 side
4. WLB - Time to end the Fujita experiment and get a playmaker
5. RDE - Putting somebody opposite Sheard would make a great DL
6. Safety - would be nice, but not as pressing as the other issues
7. QB - would like to see a young developmental QB with potential
Here's my take on where they stand by unit:
Offense
1. OL - Assuming Steinbach comes back healthy, the line should be much better next year. They need to get a good RT, and then have a competition for RG. The OL should be solid in 2012.
2. WR - If Little can cut back on drops, he looks like a capable #2. Norwood seems like a decent slot guy. MoMass and Cribbs are OK as #4 and #5 WRs. The big hole is #1 WR. They need a playmaker at this position in the worst way. I think Blackmon would be a great fit, but a FA like DeSean Jackson or Dwayne Bowe might fit nice also.
3. RB - My opinion is that they Browns should sign Hillis. If they had a decent passing game and the line was improved, the running game would take care of itself. I think they also have Brandon Jackson on IR, plus Ogbonaya and Hardesty. IMO, this is one of the last positions they should address, unless they can go back to resign Vickers and have the Marecic pick back.
4. TE - I think the TE group is adequate. No big playmakers, but not a pressing need.
5. QB - Probably the most controversial position on the team. My preference would be to allow McCoy 1 more year with an improved OL and WRs. Give him a couple of weapons and see if he would succeed. If I take this route I draft a QB like Kellen Moore in round 4 to learn behind him. If through the process of scouting, the team thinks RGIII is a franchise QB, then they should take him early and build around him.
Defense
1. DL - Possibly the strongest unit on the team. If they can pick up a solid right DE, they will be very, very good.
2. LB - Signing DQ should be a priority this offseason. He needs to stay in the middle of the defense. Also, keep Gocong where he is. Fill the third spot with somebody other than Fujita or Maiava. Get a playmaker at this spot and the front 7 looks really strong.
3. DB - Haden and Ward are entrenched, but the other 2 spots are wide open. I'm not sure Skrine or Patterson are ready to be a #2, but both seem fine for a nickel or dime role. The second safety position needs addressed as well.
Priority:
1. #1 WR - the WRs have been a joke for a few years, and it's time for a change
2. RT - Pashos is not cutting it
3. #2 CB - Haden is good, but can only cover 1 side
4. WLB - Time to end the Fujita experiment and get a playmaker
5. RDE - Putting somebody opposite Sheard would make a great DL
6. Safety - would be nice, but not as pressing as the other issues
7. QB - would like to see a young developmental QB with potential
Fensalk
Footballguy
That's a straw man argument. I didn't say you'd be winning championships playing that style. But it wins. The Chiefs had little in the passing game and no defense, and still won a lot just by running the ball. It works like this:Actually, you're right... and think about how many championships they won in that span. DOMINANT.
1. You want a franchise QB to open up your offense.
2. If you don't have a franchise QB, you better run the football.
The Browns are doing it wrong by passing a ton when they don't have a franchise QB.
PizzaDeliveryGuy
extra sausage
Do you honestly think that Pittsburgh is good because of their OLine? A good QB can make a decent line look great, that doesn't happen the other way around.
Fensalk
Footballguy
No but their defensive line is ridiculous.
Fensalk
Footballguy
What I heard lately...
The Browns have two scenarios for the 2012 NFL draft:
1. The Rams secure the #1 pick with a loss and a Colts with over the Jaguars in week 17. The Rams are interested in trading the pick but not too far down. The Browns have a lot to offer with two #1 picks this year. Talks would heat up between the two teams. The Rams are not interested in trading Bradford and not interested in drafting Luck. The Browns are definitely interested in trading up and drafting Luck. Expect the Browns to send their first round choice in 2011 and 2012, plus a second or third round choice.
2. The Colts secure the #1 pick and the Rams have the #2 pick. The Colts will select Luck. The Rams do not want to draft Griff either and will try to trade the pick. The Browns do NOT have much interest in Griff. They feel he's not a great fit for their offense. The Browns highly valued Matt Barkley, who now is staying at USC. In this scenario, the Browns make no trades and select RB Trent Richardson. The Browns have pretty much made up their mind about Peyton Hillis. He wants too much money, is injury-prone, and is a poor fit for the offense they want to run. They want a back that has speed and can run to the outside and get yards after the catch. Hillis is gone unless he lowers his contract demands. Richardson is an excellent fit for the Browns offense.
The Browns have two scenarios for the 2012 NFL draft:
1. The Rams secure the #1 pick with a loss and a Colts with over the Jaguars in week 17. The Rams are interested in trading the pick but not too far down. The Browns have a lot to offer with two #1 picks this year. Talks would heat up between the two teams. The Rams are not interested in trading Bradford and not interested in drafting Luck. The Browns are definitely interested in trading up and drafting Luck. Expect the Browns to send their first round choice in 2011 and 2012, plus a second or third round choice.
2. The Colts secure the #1 pick and the Rams have the #2 pick. The Colts will select Luck. The Rams do not want to draft Griff either and will try to trade the pick. The Browns do NOT have much interest in Griff. They feel he's not a great fit for their offense. The Browns highly valued Matt Barkley, who now is staying at USC. In this scenario, the Browns make no trades and select RB Trent Richardson. The Browns have pretty much made up their mind about Peyton Hillis. He wants too much money, is injury-prone, and is a poor fit for the offense they want to run. They want a back that has speed and can run to the outside and get yards after the catch. Hillis is gone unless he lowers his contract demands. Richardson is an excellent fit for the Browns offense.
Fallerjw
Footballguy
Please, please, please, please, please don't draft Richardson with the first pick in round 1. They are going to release Hillis, to prove a point, and to open up a hole that they have to spend a top draft pick on. I hate that idea. Work out your differences for the good of the team, and to try to stop the cycle of losing.
Fallerjw
Footballguy
I think it's pretty tough to have five 4-12 seasons then a championship. Is there an example of this model that you could point out?I don't want to just win, I want to win championships. Would you rather have 5 4-12 seasons then a championship, or 5 12-4 seasons but no championship? I'd take the former'Fensalk said:
