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Cleveland Browns (13 Viewers)

I think all 3 AFC North teams made the kind of good, sensible pick that has led to so much success over the last decade or so.

The Ravens loved Mosely - said he was about their 10th ranked player overall. Maybe they would have been tempted to take the Notre Dame OL Zack Martin if he hadn't gone to Dallas right in front of them, but it's now clear they liked Mosely way way more than someone like Ha-Ha Clinton Dix. Safety is much more a position of need so some fans are frustrated with the pick, but to me it's vintage Ozzie. You objectively rank your board - then when the time comes, if one guy is available who you have ranked much higher than anyone else, you simply take that guy. I know they like Mosely as 3-down LB. Brown's role might be as nickel LB for another couple of years until Smith moves on.

Don't know much about Shazier. But he seems to inject some much needed speed into that aging unit. Guys like Farrior and Foote had gotten painfully old and slow for Pittsburgh in recent years.

I think the Dennard pick was very good for Cincy. Kind of reminded me of the Ravens - you just wait until your turn, and then you take whoever the best player is that's left on your board. Still kind of weird to use words like "smart" and "steady" with the Bengals, but there it is. I think their defense could be really, really good this year. Dre Kirkpatrick looked good at the end of last year - he and Dennard could give them a strong CB duo and let Marvin get very creative with the rest of the D.
I love that Zack Martin pick by the Boys and I think he would have been the Ravens pick but I like C.J. too.

Shazier is really athletic, the upside is huge if he hits. I think Pittsburgh and Baltimore will be comparing/contrasting those two for awhile and I'm sure the fans of both teams will turn that into a rivalry of sorts.

Dennard for Cincy is interesting. They are already loaded at CB with, Leon Hall, Pacman Jones, Terrence Newman, first round pick a few years ago in Dre Patrick. I thought they were already set so adding another first round pick seems a bit over-the-top where the law of diminising returns would have to kick-in somewhere but he's a good solid player that is for sure.

I guess the Browns had the advantage in the first round due to having the highest pick and having an extra first round pick.

I have already come around on Justin Gilbert, he is thee-guy Pettine wanted/needed to get. I am sold on him and think he'll be a solid player. Manziel has a shot but the real kicker is that extra first round pick so the Browns keep pace with the rest of AFCN by landing Justin Gilbert. Factor in any upside of Manziel but even if he doesn't work out that extra first round draft pick gives the Browns long-term upside.

 
I have already come around on Justin Gilbert, he is thee-guy Pettine wanted/needed to get. I am sold on him and think he'll be a solid player. Manziel has a shot but the real kicker is that extra first round pick so the Browns keep pace with the rest of AFCN by landing Justin Gilbert. Factor in any upside of Manziel but even if he doesn't work out that extra first round draft pick gives the Browns long-term upside.
Took you long enough. :wink:

 
I have already come around on Justin Gilbert, he is thee-guy Pettine wanted/needed to get. I am sold on him and think he'll be a solid player. Manziel has a shot but the real kicker is that extra first round pick so the Browns keep pace with the rest of AFCN by landing Justin Gilbert. Factor in any upside of Manziel but even if he doesn't work out that extra first round draft pick gives the Browns long-term upside.
Took you long enough. :wink:
I was up late last night pouring over everthing on him and Manziel. Gilbert is honestly thee-guy that Pettine wanted and needed for his defense to hit. Also Ray Famer was literally bouncing up on his heels when he was interviewed and started talking about, Joe Haden, Donte Whitner, and Justin Gilbert. He has this HUGE SMILE and started to literally bounce up-and-down but caught himself and said something like, OHMYGOD I've got to stop thinking about those three together.

It was like he was back in his playing days putting on his pre-game game-face.

Pettine sold me and its because he started out by clearly saying Gilbert has issues with the run game wrapping up on tackles but that won't be his role in this system. He said he won't be asked to come-up in a pseudo-LB role. He has a clear plan for him. Took my thunder away. I have nothing to poke holes in him. He's perfect for this system and I can't wait to see him starting next to Haden this year.

Oh and don't forget, Joe Haden did NOT start his first game as a rookie cornerback but neither did Hanford Dixson so I don't anticipate Justin Gilbert to start right out of the gate.

Oh Johnny Manziel won't start that first game in Pittsburgh either. That ain't gonna happen IMHO.

Look for the BYE in week 4. What looked like a bad placement for a BYE probably will work out as a pretty good timeline of when to expect Manziel to get his first start.

 
Wow, time for a SOBER reflection of things.

1- The trade down from 4 was brilliant to get not only a 2015 1st, but from a team that has an excellent chance of sucking this year. But even if the pick is pick 25, I call that a win

2- The trade up from 9 to 8 was weird, but they gave a 5th this year............which is equal to the 4th they also got next year when initially trading down. So in total, pick 4 for pick 8 and a 2015 1st as far as value goes. Can't complain

3- picking Gilbert............he wasn't on my radar of picks at 4, but I have been talking about trading down for a while, and really thought we would. Was looking at Evans ideally, but I am happy to get the guy I think is the best Corner coming out this year, plus it was a huge position of need. I don't like to draft for need, and I don't really think we did, but it's nice when that top talented guy does fill a huge need.

4- Drafting Johnny. I didn't like this for a few reasons. One, we traded up and gave a 3rd. We actually gave a higher 3rd to move up from 26 to 22 than the Saints did to move up from 27 to 20. Then obviously, I didn't want Johnny. I REALLY like him and am a fan, love watching him play...........I just don't think he will be a good NFL quarterback. No choice but to root for him at this point. Although according to MAC that probably means I like the pick, and that I am insane based on the definition of insanity that isn't the actual definition of insanity. It's Webster's dictionary, not Einstein's dictionary.

5- Overall, I think there were 5 total trades and we were part of three of them. Incredible. That alone I think shows that Farmer is a guy these other teams feel will be very approachable for trades and is an easy guy to work with for the rest of this draft, and in the future. I have told some people this before, but when I did a startup for one of my dynasty drafts I made sure to pull two trades off right away, even if they were small and fairly insignificant, just to show that I am willing to make deals and work them out quickly. Got a TOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNN of offers the rest of the draft because of that.........Not saying Farmer was doing this at all, cause he wasn't, but making a few moves does show at the very least that he is approachable and teams won't hesitate to run a trade offer/idea by him.

6- I have heard some people say that Farmer will be judged on how Johnny pans out. That is just false, and unfair. No GM can be judged on ONE guy unless they make a huge move mortgaging the future (like the RG3 trade). We gave picks 26 and 87(??) for him. That is a big investment, but it is not remotely close to "mortgaging the future".

If I have to grade things I guess I give it a B. I like Gilbert, I don't like the Johnny pick, and I loved the trade to get a 2015 1st from a very mediocre team. That and we still have a lot of picks so that is just a interim report card.

As for pick 35, Lee would be cool, lot of other guys I would be happy with also. And I HOPE we trade up once more using a 3rd and 4th to get into the 2nd if some of the guys I am looking at slip. If not, just draft who falls to ya I guess. I don't want to trade any picks for anymore 2015 picks. I won't be upset about it, but we already have the extra 1st and 4th.

 
Cowherd reporting 1200 season tickets sold overnight. :)

Buzz is fun.
for those saying manziel is just a media thing

it is a fan thing...
And those things always help to win games.....just like Courtney Brown; Tim Couch; Colt McCoy; Brady Quinn; Brandon Weeden; Charlie Frye etc etc
i didn't say that

it is just that i am hearing a lot of browns fans bashing the media over making a big deal about manziel...the media is following the fans

 
Browns now have the most exciting QB in the NFL (hope he plays up to snuff)

and the most exciting young WR in the league.

NFL fudged it when they gave the Browns only ONE "primetime" slot.
I agree. I'm sure they are kicking themselves for only one Johnny Football prime time game. Of course if they manage to win some games, there's always the flex scheduling later in the season.

 
Wow, time for a SOBER reflection of things.

1- The trade down from 4 was brilliant to get not only a 2015 1st, but from a team that has an excellent chance of sucking this year. But even if the pick is pick 25, I call that a win

2- The trade up from 9 to 8 was weird, but they gave a 5th this year............which is equal to the 4th they also got next year when initially trading down. So in total, pick 4 for pick 8 and a 2015 1st as far as value goes. Can't complain

3- picking Gilbert............he wasn't on my radar of picks at 4, but I have been talking about trading down for a while, and really thought we would. Was looking at Evans ideally, but I am happy to get the guy I think is the best Corner coming out this year, plus it was a huge position of need. I don't like to draft for need, and I don't really think we did, but it's nice when that top talented guy does fill a huge need.

4- Drafting Johnny. I didn't like this for a few reasons. One, we traded up and gave a 3rd. We actually gave a higher 3rd to move up from 26 to 22 than the Saints did to move up from 27 to 20. Then obviously, I didn't want Johnny. I REALLY like him and am a fan, love watching him play...........I just don't think he will be a good NFL quarterback. No choice but to root for him at this point. Although according to MAC that probably means I like the pick, and that I am insane based on the definition of insanity that isn't the actual definition of insanity. It's Webster's dictionary, not Einstein's dictionary.

5- Overall, I think there were 5 total trades and we were part of three of them. Incredible. That alone I think shows that Farmer is a guy these other teams feel will be very approachable for trades and is an easy guy to work with for the rest of this draft, and in the future. I have told some people this before, but when I did a startup for one of my dynasty drafts I made sure to pull two trades off right away, even if they were small and fairly insignificant, just to show that I am willing to make deals and work them out quickly. Got a TOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNN of offers the rest of the draft because of that.........Not saying Farmer was doing this at all, cause he wasn't, but making a few moves does show at the very least that he is approachable and teams won't hesitate to run a trade offer/idea by him.

6- I have heard some people say that Farmer will be judged on how Johnny pans out. That is just false, and unfair. No GM can be judged on ONE guy unless they make a huge move mortgaging the future (like the RG3 trade). We gave picks 26 and 87(??) for him. That is a big investment, but it is not remotely close to "mortgaging the future".

If I have to grade things I guess I give it a B. I like Gilbert, I don't like the Johnny pick, and I loved the trade to get a 2015 1st from a very mediocre team. That and we still have a lot of picks so that is just a interim report card.

As for pick 35, Lee would be cool, lot of other guys I would be happy with also. And I HOPE we trade up once more using a 3rd and 4th to get into the 2nd if some of the guys I am looking at slip. If not, just draft who falls to ya I guess. I don't want to trade any picks for anymore 2015 picks. I won't be upset about it, but we already have the extra 1st and 4th.
i don't think it is fair, but i think it may be true..

 
Not a rumor but a 'trade-prediction' that involves us going after a RB.

Don't like this prediction and don't think it will happen but Rosenthal is predicting this one so here it is:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000348578/article/trade-predictions-for-2014-nfl-draft-weekend?campaign=Twitter_atl

Trade predictions for 2014 NFL Draft weekend
LaMichael James goes to Cleveland for a sixth-round pickThis is a trade that won't exactly shake the firmament of the league, but it makes a lot of sense for both sides. James wants out of San Francisco and the 49ers have a surplus of running backs. The Browns still need running back depth after Ben Tate, and James would add an intriguing big-play threat for offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan to use in an offense that suddenly looks dynamic.

-- Gregg Rosenthal
 
really if Manziel flames out, he should do it relatively quickly.

so instead of 2-3 years, it should only cost them a few games.

yes, i'm starting the rationalization process.
if they judge him after a few games they are idiots
i meant he will get injured and be done.
that is possible i suppose

even if the frame is an issue, though, it is far more likely to be a series of nagging injuries than one catastrophic one. The dude can take a hit, the concern is can he take all of them.

 
Not a rumor but a 'trade-prediction' that involves us going after a RB.

Don't like this prediction and don't think it will happen but Rosenthal is predicting this one so here it is:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000348578/article/trade-predictions-for-2014-nfl-draft-weekend?campaign=Twitter_atl

Trade predictions for 2014 NFL Draft weekend
LaMichael James goes to Cleveland for a sixth-round pickThis is a trade that won't exactly shake the firmament of the league, but it makes a lot of sense for both sides. James wants out of San Francisco and the 49ers have a surplus of running backs. The Browns still need running back depth after Ben Tate, and James would add an intriguing big-play threat for offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan to use in an offense that suddenly looks dynamic.

-- Gregg Rosenthal
Dion Lewis is basically the same type of player as James - and probably better.

 
really if Manziel flames out, he should do it relatively quickly.

so instead of 2-3 years, it should only cost them a few games.

yes, i'm starting the rationalization process.
I think if he fails his arc will be similar to Vince Young. Make enough wow plays to win some games and look good enough you can't go away from his potential. But if he doesn't become competent at the art of QB then the good defenses eventually expose those weaknesses.

 
Josh Gordon wants us to draft WR Marques Lee from USC in the 2nd round.

Maybe. After all he wanted us to draft QB Johnny Manziel in the first round and got his wish there and he's still on the board and their are ony two teams picking in front of us so... :shrug:

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/5572/gordon-lee-would-be-a-great-addition

Gordon: Lee would be a great additionMay, 9, 2014May 9 3:33 PM ET
By ESPN.com staff | ESPN.com

After the Cleveland Browns drafted the quarterback he wanted, Josh Gordon let it be known Friday which receiver he would like to see his team draft in the second round.
“We have a lot of wide receivers right now on our team that we just picked up on, but I’m actually a fan of Marqise Lee,” Gorrdon said on “SVP & Russillo” on ESPN Radio. “I don’t believe he got picked yet. That would be a great addition. I know we have an early second-round pick. We’ll see.”

The Browns have the third pick in the second round, and some mock drafts have the Browns taking the wide receiver out of USC at that position. It would present a strong receiving tandem for Cleveland as Gordon is coming off a 1,646-yard season last year.

Gordon let it be known behind the scenes before the draft that he wanted the Browns to take Johnny Manziel in the first round, and that happened with the 22nd pick.

“I think I was just a big fan of his overall game, his prowess on it,” Gordon said. “His outlook on it. His fire and ambition and will to win was greater than I think any other prospect in the draft.

“Despite all the mixed reviews and the media downsizing him, his perseverance seemed to be a lot greater than that. I saw something a lot deeper than just his talent that could take us to the next level.”
 
really if Manziel flames out, he should do it relatively quickly.

so instead of 2-3 years, it should only cost them a few games.

yes, i'm starting the rationalization process.
if they judge him after a few games they are idiots
i meant he will get injured and be done.
that is possible i supposeeven if the frame is an issue, though, it is far more likely to be a series of nagging injuries than one catastrophic one. The dude can take a hit, the concern is can he take all of them.
you could be right. imo, the first time he scrambles and is smashed by a DE he didn't see coming, there's going to be a snowball effect.

i've heard some scouts are very concerned about him getting the ball out quickly, and his elusiveness will only help him so much at this level.

 
really if Manziel flames out, he should do it relatively quickly.

so instead of 2-3 years, it should only cost them a few games.

yes, i'm starting the rationalization process.
I think if he fails his arc will be similar to Vince Young. Make enough wow plays to win some games and look good enough you can't go away from his potential. But if he doesn't become competent at the art of QB then the good defenses eventually expose those weaknesses.
ultimately, i think Young failed because he was a head case. i get the impression that Manziel is a strong kid, psychologically.

i am concerned about his physical and mental abilities.

 
So this news couldn't come out about 22 hours ago? We probably draft Watkins if it did.

Hopefully he appeals and somehow gets out of it.....................idiot.

On the bright side (if there is one) we will never have to pay him a ton for a long term deal. Who on Earth would?

 
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Who knows what truth there actually is with this, and what the Browns know about it.

But hypothetically if they did just find out about it (which I doubt) I would be fine with Farmer dealing up to 33 to take his top WR. Shouldn't cost much since Houston likely isn't looking at WR, and they only would have to sweat out one pick for whoever they want next.

Not sure what it would actually cost, but if it's anything remotely close to the value chart I would be 100% on board.

Again, this is under the assumption Gordon truly is out and they truly did not know about it till today.

Otherwise, no need to make a move

 
WR becomes a priority, probably for both 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Oh and did anyone see this?

The first page of the New England Patriots scouting report on Johnny Manziel was leaked.

https://twitter.com/NFL_RealUpdates/status/464824276449632256/photo/1

Dov Kleiman‏@NFL_RealUpdates4h

The #Patriots leaked internal scouting report on former Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel who was drafted by the #Browns - pic.twitter.com/6CInTE0LA1

The attached photo-copy PDF file is small but I downloaded it and blew it up to see and this is what it says:

================================================================================

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS COLLEGE SCOUTING REPORT

NAME - Manziel, Johnny

MAJOR FACTORS

Personal/Behavior 4 Note (Has arrest, big time maintenance will be needed on and off the field)

Athletic Ability 8

Strength & Explosion 6

Competes 8

Toughs 8

Mental/Learning 5

Injury/Durability 1 Note (Banged up Lt. knee vs. MSUN but returned the next series)

Player Summary

UNDERCLASSMAN REPORT: Manziel is a RS-So. That has been a 2-yr. starter at QB for TXAM; 2012 Heisman winner that has a unique skill set and rare production. Size and bulk-deficient, an outstanding athlete with gd. Arm strength, gd. Accuracy, outstanding play speed/quickness, and rare mobility for the position. Toughness and competes are outstanding, undersized and unconventional but clutch, can take big hits, and performs in big games. In the run game, has outstanding make-miss ability and balance to keep plays alive, but playground play style, small frame, and ball security are big issues; constantly carries ball unprotected in one hand, but only one fumble (MSUN) this season. Dangerous as a scrambler, numerous big plays on the ground. In the passing game, Rt.-phanded QB with gd. Arm strength and a very quick release; ball placement at chin in the pocket, high release point, only (2) batted balls in exposures. Footworkd in short and intermediate is gd. & balanced, but leaves feet and snaps hips/upper body through when throwing deep. When having to really rip it into tight spaces, won’t always set feet and will jump off back foot, will spray ball high at times. Overall, has gd. Accuracy, gd. Deep ball ability, flashes touch underneath but is a risk-taker that will trust his arm and force throws. So much production is outside the pocket; arm strength and accuracy is consistent on the move, eyes, constantly downfield. Gets VG protection but has a VG feel for pressure; first instinct is to ball out of pockect backwards and find room while WR’s uncover. Rarely works through full-field progression, usually gets to the 3rd option and takes off; rarely hit’s the check down, wants the big play. Will make a couple of bone-headed decisions every game, but also makes several game-changing, explosive plays in every exposure.

PLAYER FUTURE

In the NFL, a starting QB for a handful of teams in Year1; obviously, won’t fit every club’s offense and traits for the position are highly questionable, but some club will take a chance early on his athleticism, speed, and playmaking ability. Relative to RG3, Manziel is more elusive, not quite as top-end fast; Griffin threw a better deep ball coming out, more consistent mechanics, strong arm, but Manzeil is more accurate in the short and inermediate, better ball security, quicker release. For the NEP, lacks the size and traits we look for, buut has starter-level arm strength, accuracy, and competes; clean up the decision-making and develop him in the pocket, the only major negative is size. Different than any guy we have had, but an upgrade over Tebow, higher ceiling than Hoyer with a stronger arm. Gd. #2 in Year 1 that could back up Tom and develop into a starter.

STRONG POINTS - Production, playmaker, arm strength, accuracy, mobility, elusiveness, competes

WEAK POINTS - Size, ball security, manipulating DS with eyes, risk-taker

CHARACTER -

JL 8/1 - INCIDENT: Arrested 6/29/12 for disorderly conduct (eventually dismissed), failure to identify, and posseion of a fake ID (dimissed). On 7/5/13, pled guilty to the misdemeanor charge of failing to properly identify himself (showed a fake Louisiana ID with a 1990 birth date) after a fight in College Station; reports say he didn’t’ start the fight but was trying to break it up. Paid a $2,000 fine, $232 in court costs, and serve 2 days in jail but received credit for time served after being jailed when initially arrested. On 8/6, he went before a 3-person discipline panel at TXAM that put oh “Conduct Probation” for a semester (Fall 2012) and suspended for the season; he successfully appealed the decision (after Sumlin & Kingsbury went to bat for him) and got the punishment reduced to standard probation, allowing him to play. Comes from a big-money family (oil money) in east TX but played HS ball outside of San Antonio. Source at Manning Camp that knows

 
So this news couldn't come out about 22 hours ago? We probably draft Watkins if it did.

Hopefully he appeals and somehow gets out of it.....................idiot.

On the bright side (if there is one) we will never have to pay him a ton for a long term deal. Who on Earth would?
good point about the time - horrible for Cleveland fans.

 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

... Reached by phone Friday afternoon, Gordon told ESPN: “That’s something you’re going to have to talk to [agent] Drew Rosenhaus about. I really don’t know anything about it.”

Asked about an appeal, Gordon said, “I’m going to have to find out about that later. You need to call Drew,” before hanging up.

Rosenhaus declined comment but said the information was “not true.”
 
@mikefreemanNFL: Source confirms to me ESPN report Josh Gordon faces suspension and source says chances of reduced penalty "not all that great."

 
I don't have time to read the thread since last night but my thoughts:

I don't care if Manzel generates media at all. That doesn't win games.

I don't care if the fans get excited and he sells tickets. I'm not the owner and make nothing off those tickets. I want players that help us win. I don't think he's it.

I think he'll generate excitement for the six games he plays before he tries one of his cute little jump passes and gets planted six feet under by an NFL linebacker and is out for the rest of the season. He's to small for his style of play in the NFL.

 
@mikefreemanNFL: Source confirms to me ESPN report Josh Gordon faces suspension and source says chances of reduced penalty "not all that great."
If the Browns have known about the situation for 2 weeks and didn't take a WR yet either they think he isn't going to be suspended or they have some other drafting plan in place.

I guess we will find out soon.

 
@mikefreemanNFL: Source confirms to me ESPN report Josh Gordon faces suspension and source says chances of reduced penalty "not all that great."
If the Browns have known about the situation for 2 weeks and didn't take a WR yet either they think he isn't going to be suspended or they have some other drafting plan in place.

I guess we will find out soon.
I definitely like how they didn't just draft Watkins as a reaction to the news.

Sorta shows Farmer thinks ahead and doesn't base his drafts 100% on the current season

 
They must feel good about getting an NFL starting WR in the 2nd round.

Either that or they think this year is Greg Little's year.
For sure...how could you not in this draft? The Bills paid an insane price to move up for the #1 guy on most boards.

Anyone have two 2nds? Would drop back a bit for some extra ammo if we have similar ratings on a bunch of these WRs.

 
They must feel good about getting an NFL starting WR in the 2nd round.

Either that or they think this year is Greg Little's year.
For sure...how could you not in this draft? The Bills paid an insane price to move up for the #1 guy on most boards.

Anyone have two 2nds? Would drop back a bit for some extra ammo if we have similar ratings on a bunch of these WRs.
I could see us drop back like 7-8 spots, then move up from our 3rd and end up with a couple mid 2nds.

But I sorta prefer to just sit at 35 and take Lee.

 

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