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**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****


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I absolutely love our draft...

even without having too much knowledge on Kirksey, I give us a SOLID A

Addressed many needs, got solid players, a face of the franchise, excitement and shored up the D and o-line... oh, and many ppl's sleeper in West.

If Gordon plays this season, I give us a full blown A+

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Can't imagine why any Browns fan would care.

You can't imagine why Browns fans care that the team gets dragged through the mud and laughed at every possible chance the media gets to do it??

If that happened for a couple days in some of the other cities the Earth would explode.

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Can't imagine why any Browns fan would care.

You can't imagine why Browns fans care that the team gets dragged through the mud and laughed at every possible chance the media gets to do it??

If that happened for a couple days in some of the other cities the Earth would explode.

Every team in every sport everywhere on earth has had negative personnel analysis printed about them. I can't recall a single retraction being printed, ever, nor a single uprising of fans demanding a retraction. Mostly, if things turn out great, fans are just happy, drunk, and way too busy rubbing it in other fans' faces.

Maybe your experience is otherwise. But I'm a lot more interested in how these guys turn out, and how the Gordon thing progresses, and the future of the team than I am in what Sportsline does about it.

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Can't imagine why any Browns fan would care.

You can't imagine why Browns fans care that the team gets dragged through the mud and laughed at every possible chance the media gets to do it??

If that happened for a couple days in some of the other cities the Earth would explode.

Every team in every sport everywhere on earth has had negative personnel analysis printed about them. I can't recall a single retraction being printed, ever, nor a single uprising of fans demanding a retraction. Mostly, if things turn out great, fans are just happy, drunk, and way too busy rubbing it in other fans' faces.

Maybe your experience is otherwise. But I'm a lot more interested in how these guys turn out, and how the Gordon thing progresses, and the future of the team than I am in what Sportsline does about it.

You definitely missed my point. And I don't really care to go any further with it anyway.

Moving on.

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Let's just say for a split second that the whole story is bogus and Gordon isn't suspended.............I wonder if sportsline will change all their grades of C and comments of "what are they thinking, why not a WR????", and al the people calling Farmer an idiot for not drafting for need at WR will change their tune and say they were wrong.

I doubt it.

I would, in a heartbeat. It would change my whole outlook on the first two days of the draft. Given all the media coverage out there though, I think there's a zero percent chance that is the case.

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Depends how you have your players ranked.

If you have two guys equal, sure, take the WR over the RB or LB

This is all I was saying Ghost. That there WERE great receivers on the board for some of those picks. And that is why I don't get it. It's almost kind of funny, so many were touting the top pick being a WR, it was our big need of the draft. Now some (most/all?) of these same folks are saying they are happy we didn't "reach" in the draft. To be honest, to me, it reeks of desperation trying to justify the picks.

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Depends how you have your players ranked.

If you have two guys equal, sure, take the WR over the RB or LB

This is all I was saying Ghost. That there WERE great receivers on the board for some of those picks. And that is why I don't get it. It's almost kind of funny, so many were touting the top pick being a WR, it was our big need of the draft. Now some (most/all?) of these same folks are saying they are happy we didn't "reach" in the draft. To be honest, to me, it reeks of desperation trying to justify the picks.

Or maybe they didn't rank their players the same as you.

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Look even before all this arguably CLE still needed another WR.

Even if Gordon plays... Say they cut Little (they should please), the Browns have:

Hawkins

Benjamin - injured

Johnson - injured

Cooper

Burleson - injured

I guess if Gordon's out then Little (ack) stays.

They should be drafting WRs anyway.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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Someone mentioned this before and got laughed at (probably justifiably so. Cant remember if I mentioned it myself here or not)..................but I say we offer up a pick for Blackmon. Our 7th. F it.

On the off chance, like 1 in a million, these two idiots stay clean, we are stacked at WR from 2015 till 202?

If Blackmon never plays again, so be it. 7th rounder, yippee

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Manziel is an AWFUL pick for the Browns. Its stunning just how awful that is.

Manziel is a scrawny QB who LOVES to scramble and run with the football. You absolutely cannot put a QB like that in a division with the Steelers and Ravens because they will literally kill him. I look at the Ravens and Steelers drafts and they went 4 for 4 picking pass rushers in the first two rounds. They are going to bury Manziel in a heap somewhere behind the line of scrimmage and he will be carted off on a stretcher. Mark my words.

Manziel might be a franchise QB, but he does not belong in the AFC North. Awful pick for Cleveland. Bridgewater would have been a better fit since he doesn't run as much as a Manziel.

I also don't get taking a CB2 with the 9 pick. The AFC North doesn't have high powered pass offenses with multiple threats that warrant a high pick on a CB2. The opportunity cost was enormous as they had to pass on picking blue chip stud pass rushing LB Khalil Mack to do it. Who would you rather have? Khalil Mack and a CB2 in round 3, or Gilbert and Kirksey? Obviously the former. Yes they got two first rounders now in 2015 but drafting Mack is more appealing.

The way the Browns conducted their draft makes me think Pettine / Farmer do not know their division very well.

Radio City Music Hall was right when they shouted "Cleveland Sucks!"

Edited by Riversco
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Wait wait wait..............we should draft our players based on the division we play in? For realz??

Laugh about it if you want. If you think teams don't factor their most direct path to the playoffs and the only teams they are guaranteed to play 2x a year as part of their draft process. You are crazy.

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Wait wait wait..............we should draft our players based on the division we play in? For realz??

Not sure if serious but yes. The Chargers took a CB in round 1 which makes sense for them because they are trying to beat the high powered pass attack of the Broncos to win the AFC west. But I don't get the Browns going CB2 at 1.09 when the passing attacks in the AFC North aren't that imposing.

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Wait wait wait..............we should draft our players based on the division we play in? For realz??

Laugh about it if you want. If you think teams don't factor their most direct path to the playoffs and the only teams they are guaranteed to play 2x a year as part of their draft process. You are crazy.

Then I guess I am crazy. I suppose I always though that teams just tried to draft the best players they could to try to become the best team they could.

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I absolutely love our draft...

even without having too much knowledge on Kirksey, I give us a SOLID A

Addressed many needs, got solid players, a face of the franchise, excitement and shored up the D and o-line... oh, and many ppl's sleeper in West.

If Gordon plays this season, I give us a full blown A+

Hey Soul

imo Its already an A+ (or closest thing)

Im probably one of a select few who would have just as soon seen the Browns take an elite TE (but yeah I do like Johnny Foosball too)

But The Coaching staff cant really make a Gordon replacement available in the draft.

Would you really make the choice to burn a top pick which goes against your Staffs BPA?

Basically I like the premise of evaluating some Vet's (if needed) or taking a chance on a player in the later rnds although 1st yr WR's don't always produce.

All in all If we factor in such things as injury risk (etc.), I believe the Browns made some wise choices.

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Wait wait wait..............we should draft our players based on the division we play in? For realz??

Laugh about it if you want. If you think teams don't factor their most direct path to the playoffs and the only teams they are guaranteed to play 2x a year as part of their draft process. You are crazy.

Then I guess I am crazy. I suppose I always though that teams just tried to draft the best players they could to try to become the best team they could.

I'm with GG, here.

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I absolutely love our draft...

even without having too much knowledge on Kirksey, I give us a SOLID A

Addressed many needs, got solid players, a face of the franchise, excitement and shored up the D and o-line... oh, and many ppl's sleeper in West.

If Gordon plays this season, I give us a full blown A+

If Manziel pans out, A+. Best draft I can remember & I'm 57 years old!

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Especially considering those other teams in the division change all the time also.

Yeesh. I know fans and media talk about it, but if a GM is changing his whole draft board to take players he think are best to go against a couple teams, then a MAJOR ouch.

I would much rather have my division rivals think they need to draft to try and beat us............not the other way around.

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I absolutely love our draft...

even without having too much knowledge on Kirksey, I give us a SOLID A

Addressed many needs, got solid players, a face of the franchise, excitement and shored up the D and o-line... oh, and many ppl's sleeper in West.

If Gordon plays this season, I give us a full blown A+

If Manziel pans out, A+. Best draft I can remember & I'm 57 years old!

Manziel will be on IR after playing 4 games vs the Ravens and Steelers pass rush.

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Wait wait wait..............we should draft our players based on the division we play in? For realz??

Laugh about it if you want. If you think teams don't factor their most direct path to the playoffs and the only teams they are guaranteed to play 2x a year as part of their draft process. You are crazy.

Then I guess I am crazy. I suppose I always though that teams just tried to draft the best players they could to try to become the best team they could.

I'm with GG, here.

Browns gave up 30 points per game in going 0-7 to close.

I would have liked to see Watkins + Gordon together too, but they hired Pettine and defense is probably the place to start.

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Especially considering those other teams in the division change all the time also.

Yeesh. I know fans and media talk about it, but if a GM is changing his whole draft board to take players he think are best to go against a couple teams, then a MAJOR ouch.

I would much rather have my division rivals think they need to draft to try and beat us............not the other way around.

You're making up an argument nobody has mentioned. Nobody said teams change their entire board for it. It's a factor.
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Took West from under BAL's nose.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/05/cleveland_browns_trade_up_to_b.html

...Sensing other clubs might snatch West late in the third round, the Browns traded up with the San Francisco 49ers to take the prolific small-school halfback with the 94th overall pick Friday night. They sent the Niners a fourth and sixth-round choice to complete the deal.

The compact runner with a thick frame that reminds some of Washington’s Alfred Morris, served as the Browns’ most intriguing selection on the draft’s second day...

...The 5-foot-9 225-pounder was on the Ravens’ radar, meeting with them at the NFL Scouting Combine and their Baltimore-area prospects day, according to the Baltimore Sun.

"We liked Terrence," Ravens general manager Ozzie Newsome told the Sun. "Now, we just have to face him twice a year."

Baltimore held the 99th pick and, according to the newspaper, West was under consideration. The Ravens ranked 30th in rushing last season and Rice managed just 660 yards. He's also dealing with legal issues stemming from assault charges in February.

As the third round unfurled, Browns general manager Ray Farmer believed he needed to act if he wanted to land West. He packaged the Nos. 106 and 180 picks, leaving the Browns with just two picks on Saturday (127, 218).

“We had an inkling that other teams were going to try to circle the wagons on (West) when it got to the compensatory picks,” Farmer said. “And, so we felt that we needed to jump back in before he disappeared.”

...West was the sixth running back taken in the draft. Had the Browns not traded up he might have played for his beloved Ravens.

Kinda sad that the Ravens RB was caught on film beating unconcious a woman who would become his wife. Ray is not facing a suspension by the National Football League yet our WR might because he 'reportedly' failed a test screening a natural plant that should be legal and is becoming legal in many states.

Something is very wrong with the rules of the NFL and they should be changed.

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Especially considering those other teams in the division change all the time also.

Yeesh. I know fans and media talk about it, but if a GM is changing his whole draft board to take players he think are best to go against a couple teams, then a MAJOR ouch.

I would much rather have my division rivals think they need to draft to try and beat us............not the other way around.

You're making up an argument nobody has mentioned. Nobody said teams change their entire board for it. It's a factor.

I would hope my GM doesn't factor it in at all.

Would rather my GM make the other teams think they need to change their boards to face US.

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I absolutely love our draft...

even without having too much knowledge on Kirksey, I give us a SOLID A

Addressed many needs, got solid players, a face of the franchise, excitement and shored up the D and o-line... oh, and many ppl's sleeper in West.

If Gordon plays this season, I give us a full blown A+

If Manziel pans out, A+. Best draft I can remember & I'm 57 years old!

Manziel will be on IR after playing 4 games vs the Ravens and Steelers pass rush.

That's why we fortified the OL.

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Manziel is an AWFUL pick for the Browns. Its stunning just how awful that is.

Manziel is a scrawny QB who LOVES to scramble and run with the football. You absolutely cannot put a QB like that in a division with the Steelers and Ravens because they will literally kill him. I look at the Ravens and Steelers drafts and they went 4 for 4 picking pass rushers in the first two rounds. They are going to bury Manziel in a heap somewhere behind the line of scrimmage and he will be carted off on a stretcher. Mark my words.

Manziel might be a franchise QB, but he does not belong in the AFC North. Awful pick for Cleveland. Bridgewater would have been a better fit since he doesn't run as much as a Manziel.

I also don't get taking a CB2 with the 9 pick. The AFC North doesn't have high powered pass offenses with multiple threats that warrant a high pick on a CB2. The opportunity cost was enormous as they had to pass on picking blue chip stud pass rushing LB Khalil Mack to do it. Who would you rather have? Khalil Mack and a CB2 in round 3, or Gilbert and Kirksey? Obviously the former. Yes they got two first rounders now in 2015 but drafting Mack is more appealing.

The way the Browns conducted their draft makes me think Pettine / Farmer do not know their division very well.

Radio City Music Hall was right when they shouted "Cleveland Sucks!"

The Browns got burned on pass defense by teams without high powered passing attacks.

Pettine wants another press CB so he can play his defense which means pressuring the QB, and gasp not giving up so many passing TD's because their CB2 wasn't good enough.

Manziel may be good he may be horrible here, we will see.

Professional personnel people think he will work with Shanahan's offense, their opinion is different than yours.

I'm going to go with they know a little bit more about what they want to do and what they think Manziel can do than someone who is not

employed by an NFL team making personnel decisions.

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Wait wait wait..............we should draft our players based on the division we play in? For realz??

Not sure if serious but yes. The Chargers took a CB in round 1 which makes sense for them because they are trying to beat the high powered pass attack of the Broncos to win the AFC west. But I don't get the Browns going CB2 at 1.09 when the passing attacks in the AFC North aren't that imposing.

Let's try it this way.

Who do the Seahawks have in their division that has a high powered passing attack?

What is the Seahawks blueprint for a team that won the Superbowl?

Here I'll help you.

No one in their division has a high powered passing attack.

The Seahawks blueprint is a great defense with great CB's and Safeties that lets them play man coverage so they can attack the QB because shockingly the NFL has gravitated to be more passing oriented.

Even more shockingly the Seahawks had no 1,000 yard receivers.

They relied on defense and running the ball.

What did the Browns address so far in this draft and free agency?

I guess they are crazy for trying to do something that a team just won the Superbowl doing.

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Thinking about Stevie Johnson, I'm wondering if we knew he was available but Pettine didn't like what he saw in Buffalo last year. I know one Bills fan referred to him as "lazy" in the draft thread.

Heard he's making or scheduled to make something like $8 million per year and that the Buffalo coaches felt he is 'kinda-flaky' whatever that means. They drafted guys last year who looked promising and then made that strong-move up to land Watkins and turned around and dealt him away as soon as they could for not very much in exchange so they seemed eager to move-on from him.

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I absolutely love our draft...

even without having too much knowledge on Kirksey, I give us a SOLID A

Addressed many needs, got solid players, a face of the franchise, excitement and shored up the D and o-line... oh, and many ppl's sleeper in West.

If Gordon plays this season, I give us a full blown A+

If Manziel pans out, A+. Best draft I can remember & I'm 57 years old!

Manziel will be on IR after playing 4 games vs the Ravens and Steelers pass rush.

The Ravens were 16th in the NFL in sacks and the Steelers were 25th.

Awesome of you to not know those statistics and just state an opinion based off of I don't know what.

Cincinnati was 10th and you mention Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

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Wait wait wait..............we should draft our players based on the division we play in? For realz??

Not sure if serious but yes. The Chargers took a CB in round 1 which makes sense for them because they are trying to beat the high powered pass attack of the Broncos to win the AFC west. But I don't get the Browns going CB2 at 1.09 when the passing attacks in the AFC North aren't that imposing.

Let's try it this way.

Who do the Seahawks have in their division that has a high powered passing attack?

What is the Seahawks blueprint for a team that won the Superbowl?

Here I'll help you.

No one in their division has a high powered passing attack.

The Seahawks blueprint is a great defense with great CB's and Safeties that lets them play man coverage so they can attack the QB because shockingly the NFL has gravitated to be more passing oriented.

Even more shockingly the Seahawks had no 1,000 yard receivers.

They relied on defense and running the ball.

What did the Browns address so far in this draft and free agency?

I guess they are crazy for trying to do something that a team just won the Superbowl doing.

That sounds like being too smart by half.

If you want to attack the QB, drafting Khalil Mack at 1.04 is a vastly superior strategy instead of taking a CB2 at 1.09.

Its not like they either pick a CB2 at 1.09 or nothing. They can find a CB2 in round 2 or 3. But you have Mack sitting right in your lap and you pass on it.

Edited by Riversco
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Thinking about Stevie Johnson, I'm wondering if we knew he was available but Pettine didn't like what he saw in Buffalo last year. I know one Bills fan referred to him as "lazy" in the draft thread.

Heard he's making or scheduled to make something like $8 million per year and that the Buffalo coaches felt he is 'kinda-flaky' whatever that means. They drafted guys last year who looked promising and then made that strong-move up to land Watkins and turned around and dealt him away as soon as they could for not very much in exchange so they seemed eager to move-on from him.

Johnson admitted to not being in shape last year. Bryant and Ellington are still on the board.

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Wait wait wait..............we should draft our players based on the division we play in? For realz??

Not sure if serious but yes. The Chargers took a CB in round 1 which makes sense for them because they are trying to beat the high powered pass attack of the Broncos to win the AFC west. But I don't get the Browns going CB2 at 1.09 when the passing attacks in the AFC North aren't that imposing.

Let's try it this way.

Who do the Seahawks have in their division that has a high powered passing attack?

What is the Seahawks blueprint for a team that won the Superbowl?

Here I'll help you.

No one in their division has a high powered passing attack.

The Seahawks blueprint is a great defense with great CB's and Safeties that lets them play man coverage so they can attack the QB because shockingly the NFL has gravitated to be more passing oriented.

Even more shockingly the Seahawks had no 1,000 yard receivers.

They relied on defense and running the ball.

What did the Browns address so far in this draft and free agency?

I guess they are crazy for trying to do something that a team just won the Superbowl doing.

That sounds like being too smart by half.

If you want to attack the QB, drafting Khalil Mack at 1.04 is a vastly superior strategy instead of taking a CB2 at 1.09.

Its not like they either pick a CB2 at 1.09 or nothing. They can find a CB2 in round 2 or 3. But you have Mack sitting right in your lap and you pass on it.

Gilbert was THE press corner that Pettine wanted for his defense.

The only reason that Gilbert was knocked was his run defense, which Pettine already acknowledged and said that he would not be put in a position where he has to play run D, he is meant to be a press corner and if that is the man to allow our corners to play 1 on 1 and have extra rushers I am all for it.

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i seem to recall hearing that bryant has greg little hands and hasn't been the most motivated guy...not really sad we missed out on him

look at heyward-bey: a SUPERSTAR in many areas of the game, seemingly a better attitude than bryant showed in college...yet that one problem means he cannot play WR in the NFL

Edited by Josh the FunkDOC
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Oooh laa laaa, Peirre Desir. Lol.

I like him and I think its a heck of a value this late in the 4th round.

Two-tall cornerbacks.

One thing is that trade that went down with Buffalo and Philly where the Eagles dished RB Bryce Brown to Buffalo for a conditional 2015 4th round pick.

Terrence West looks fine but I'm always a bit leery of small-school RBs so I would have preffered to make that trade and keep our picks this year and take at least one WR. That way we get a RB and at least one WR.

I like the players we've added but not taking any WRs is either a Wile-E Coyote super genius plan to address the WR position tha we are not clued-into or an oafish Black Night-like confidence whistling past the graveyard saying everything is fine with the house buring down around us.

-------------------------------

Assuming Josh does get suspended.

For the sake of discussion lets say they have a plan in place and its something like this.

Their has already been at least 15 or so WRs drafted meaning that NFL rosters are overflowing with wideouts that they will either cut or trade away cheaply.

If a perrenial thousand yard WR like Stevie Johnson goes for a conditional 3rd next year then their are probably lots of 'serviceable' starting caliber WRs who are or will be available on the cheap and don't forget about free agents. Without a doubt, Cleveland will be thee destination for any free agent wide receivers this year due to perceived need and ofcourse Johnny Football who should drawn-em-in like moths to a flame.

We only have one pick left so lets face reality.

We're NOT getting any WR help in this draft other than a late round flyer IF we pick one with our final selection of this draft so their has to be a plan of some kind so that is all I got.

Anyone have a different take?

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Love this draft they've had. Think they took some outstanding players in key positions of need.

Gordon thing ####### pisses me off though. Even more so seeing him parade all over ESPN the past couple months acting like all is well. And makes a giant hole at WR for probably a year.

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Grossie likes two-tall corners.

======================

Tony Grossi@TonyGrossi7 mins

Pleased to see #Browns draft 2 CBs over 6 feet -- Justin Gilbert and Pierre Desir.

======================

So does incarcerated Bob but he seems a bit confused on his hieght. Desir is 6'1, our tallest cornerback and one of the taller ones in the division if not the tallest.

====================

Incarcerated Bob IBN@incarceratedbob · 1m

Browns have some serious corners now.. Pettine is from the Rex school of "Never have enough corners"

Incarcerated Bob IBN@incarceratedbob · 4s

Browns stole #CB @pierre_desir he's a 2nd rd pick if he's 4-5 inches taller.. stereotype of size in draft

=====================

Add this personal story article from BR. Lengthy, make that very-lengthy story that talks of Peirre fleeing Hati and being a teenage father. This draft has a lot of immature undrerclassmen so its good to see Peirre isn't an immature kid, he's a responbible young man.

Way to long to cut so here's the link and headline but its a long article, point being he's been through a lot and he's stepped-up and taken personal responsibility.

Good young man here.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2048118-for-nfl-prospect-pierre-desir-its-always-been-fatherhood-then-football


For NFL Prospect Pierre Desir, It's Always Been Fatherhood, Then Football By Jeff Pearlman, Special to Bleacher Report

May 5, 2014

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Have to try and balance out the positive talk on the Desir pick, not all positive.

============================================

Matt Miller@nfldraftscout · 2h

Asked a scout why Pierre Desir is falling. Said they questioned footwork and long speed. Wasn't a priority player for them.

---------------------------------------

But many do like adding two-tall corners and are gerally high on the mid-round selections we've made.

=======================

Kenny Roda@TheKennyRoda40 mins

The other thing that stands out 2 me with both CB's Gilbert/Desir is that their arm length is 33 inches & both have 35inch verticals #Browns

Glenn Moore@GlennMooreCLE41 mins

The #Browns, arguably, have drafted the best small college CB (Desir) and best small college RB (West).

Dane Brugler@dpbrugler49 mins

#Browns have now drafted 2 non-FBS prospects who test off the charts with determination, attitude and perseverance. CB Desir and RB West

Michael Tanier@MikeTanier53 mins

This is a great #Browns draft if viewed entirely in isolation. Which is how they appear to have chosen to view everything.

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.-------------------------------

Assuming Josh does get suspended.

For the sake of discussion lets say they have a plan in place and its something like this.

Their has already been at least 15 or so WRs drafted meaning that NFL rosters are overflowing with wideouts that they will either cut or trade away cheaply.

If a perrenial thousand yard WR like Stevie Johnson goes for a conditional 3rd next year then their are probably lots of 'serviceable' starting caliber WRs who are or will be available on the cheap ...

Ahem....

Dawg Pound Nation@DawgPoundNews24 mins

Hearing the #Browns have inquired about WR's Michael Crabtree and Roddy White and trade availability.

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