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**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****


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So on a lighter note, Rizzo got arrested for domestic violence on Friday. Well done Riz!

Apparently he was reaaaaaaallly upset over that loss.

Sad thought, I actually like the Really Big Show, mostly just for when they bring Windy on.

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You can all doubt me, but I nailed the Browns' last 2 first rounders (TRich and Mingo)... I am good friends with someone who works within the Browns organization, though he is not directly involved in the draft process.

I can tell you that with their first pick they are looking heavily at Kouandjio, Matthews (if he somehow fell) and Clinton-Dix... NOT a QB (from his info at this moment)

Edited by Soulfly3
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You can all doubt me, but I nailed the Browns' last 2 first rounders (TRich and Mingo)... I am good friends with someone who works within the Browns organization, though he is not directly involved in the draft process.

I can tell you that with their first pick they are looking heavily at Kouandjio, Matthews (if he somehow fell) and Clinton-Dix... NOT a QB (from his info at this moment)

I definitely understand drafting an OT, but I doubt Matthews will be there and there are a lot of good OT prospects that should fall to the Browns' second pick in the 1st...Kouandijo, Lewan, or Antonio Richardson should be there. Clinton-Dix is good, but with guys like Joyner and Loston around in the 2nd...do you think there's a great advantage in taking Clinton-Dix in the 1st? I guess that if they passed over a QB, that would mean they see Hoyer as a long-term solution...which strikes me as kind of short-sighted, but who knows? Browns definitely need to address issues on their o-line and with their safeties, but I would think a potential franchise QB would trump all that.

Did your friend happen to mention why they wouldn't be looking at a QB in the 1st?

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So on a lighter note, Rizzo got arrested for domestic violence on Friday. Well done Riz!

Apparently he was reaaaaaaallly upset over that loss.

Sad thought, I actually like the Really Big Show, mostly just for when they bring Windy on.

What loss?

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You can all doubt me, but I nailed the Browns' last 2 first rounders (TRich and Mingo)... I am good friends with someone who works within the Browns organization, though he is not directly involved in the draft process.

I can tell you that with their first pick they are looking heavily at Kouandjio, Matthews (if he somehow fell) and Clinton-Dix... NOT a QB (from his info at this moment)

I definitely understand drafting an OT, but I doubt Matthews will be there and there are a lot of good OT prospects that should fall to the Browns' second pick in the 1st...Kouandijo, Lewan, or Antonio Richardson should be there. Clinton-Dix is good, but with guys like Joyner and Loston around in the 2nd...do you think there's a great advantage in taking Clinton-Dix in the 1st? I guess that if they passed over a QB, that would mean they see Hoyer as a long-term solution...which strikes me as kind of short-sighted, but who knows? Browns definitely need to address issues on their o-line and with their safeties, but I would think a potential franchise QB would trump all that.

Did your friend happen to mention why they wouldn't be looking at a QB in the 1st?

I assume they're putting a lot of stock into Hoyer (I didnt actually ask him directly, but I should)... I personally agree that they need to beast up the o-line and secondary, o-line especially... and by the sounds of it, the Browns brass does as well.

I imagine theyd still aim for a qb at some point, but imo, none of them scream "draft me early" this year... theyre all fairly closely bunched.

As a Browns fan, Im MORE than willing to hold out a year to see if Hoyer can answer our prayers... it's not like we arent accustomed to waiting. Hoyer, a shored up o-line and secondary could really see us make a playoff push

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Any sense in why the Browns let Rainey go?

Just curious about that.

McGahee seems like a total drain on the offense.

Also:

- any thoughts on Fozzy Whitaker next week if McGahee's ruled out?

Rainey works well in TB because he's behind one of the best o-lines in the NFL. He's got some talent, but he's of a similar mold to Ogbonnaya and Whittaker in what he could do for the Browns offense and just isn't the same kind of RB as McGahee...Browns weren't going to waive the vet they just signed. I think if you took Fozzy Whittaker and threw him behind the TB o-line, he'd look pretty impressive, too.

EDIT: As for Whittaker, no...Ogbonnaya is the only Browns RB that is fantasy relevant, and that's only if you're in a PPR league.

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You can all doubt me, but I nailed the Browns' last 2 first rounders (TRich and Mingo)... I am good friends with someone who works within the Browns organization, though he is not directly involved in the draft process.

I can tell you that with their first pick they are looking heavily at Kouandjio, Matthews (if he somehow fell) and Clinton-Dix... NOT a QB (from his info at this moment)

They much prefer Schwartz at RG, so I could see Kojo. Clinton-Dix would puzzle me though, despite Lombardi and his love of all things Alabama...and Haha being a hell of a player. Gipson has been alright enough at FS and I think we're looking to re-sign Ward. If we brought in Clinton-Dix it'd be to take Gipson's spot though, which would be an upgrade, and Gipson is a free agent after 2014, so I guess there's that. Still, the secondary as a whole has played pretty well since Skrine's disaster first two games. Why devote a key draft resource to an area of the team that's already strong while we have other issues?

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You can all doubt me, but I nailed the Browns' last 2 first rounders (TRich and Mingo)... I am good friends with someone who works within the Browns organization, though he is not directly involved in the draft process.

I can tell you that with their first pick they are looking heavily at Kouandjio, Matthews (if he somehow fell) and Clinton-Dix... NOT a QB (from his info at this moment)

I definitely understand drafting an OT, but I doubt Matthews will be there and there are a lot of good OT prospects that should fall to the Browns' second pick in the 1st...Kouandijo, Lewan, or Antonio Richardson should be there. Clinton-Dix is good, but with guys like Joyner and Loston around in the 2nd...do you think there's a great advantage in taking Clinton-Dix in the 1st? I guess that if they passed over a QB, that would mean they see Hoyer as a long-term solution...which strikes me as kind of short-sighted, but who knows? Browns definitely need to address issues on their o-line and with their safeties, but I would think a potential franchise QB would trump all that.

Did your friend happen to mention why they wouldn't be looking at a QB in the 1st?

I assume they're putting a lot of stock into Hoyer (I didnt actually ask him directly, but I should)... I personally agree that they need to beast up the o-line and secondary, o-line especially... and by the sounds of it, the Browns brass does as well.

I imagine theyd still aim for a qb at some point, but imo, none of them scream "draft me early" this year... theyre all fairly closely bunched.

As a Browns fan, Im MORE than willing to hold out a year to see if Hoyer can answer our prayers... it's not like we arent accustomed to waiting. Hoyer, a shored up o-line and secondary could really see us make a playoff push

We've gone down the path of guys like Hoyer forever and a day. I liked what I saw, but I also didn't see enough to say - ok, he's our guy for 2014, build around him. If we're going into this year with Hoyer then the going rate for Bridgewater is too high and none of the other options are 'the guy.' That said, it would follow the narrative I wrote a couple months ago - these guys want Mett and his price just fell as his ACL tore. Draft him round 3 and if Hoyer flames out get him ready after the bye. Pair him with Kojo, Clinton-Dix, and a guy like Allen Robinson early round 2.

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Any sense in why the Browns let Rainey go?

Just curious about that.

McGahee seems like a total drain on the offense.

Also:

- any thoughts on Fozzy Whitaker next week if McGahee's ruled out?

Rainey wasn't here for long at all. Better question would be to Pittsburgh and Baltimore, they both had long looks at him and said no thanks. McGahee's role is to wear down the defensive front, shorten the game, and get whatever yards he can - he's done that job just fine, but I don't think Rainey or any of the others would have. No McGahee would just mean more passing.

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If I was a betting man, at this point I see the Browns taking Kouandjio. Massive upgrade and a monster of a player. Clinton-Dix, as you said would be slightly puzzling, but it surely means someone is on their way out... and you nailed the guy, MAC32.

It's a passing league now... so having a decent secondary isnt enough if you want to go deep.. you need a solid - excellent one. C-Dix would make our secondary just that.

if we could somehow nail both, we'd be laughing... but if Im on the clock and need to take one, I go Kouandjio

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You can all doubt me, but I nailed the Browns' last 2 first rounders (TRich and Mingo)... I am good friends with someone who works within the Browns organization, though he is not directly involved in the draft process.

I can tell you that with their first pick they are looking heavily at Kouandjio, Matthews (if he somehow fell) and Clinton-Dix... NOT a QB (from his info at this moment)

I don't think the Browns are painted into a corner where they 'have' to take a QB if they aren't sold on any of the prospects next year. Hate to say it but Mary Kay came up with a stat that surprised me. She said that Jason Cambell has not had a game with a quarterback passer rating under 105 in the three games where he was healthy including yesterday's game against the Pats.

Per the Browns going Clinton-Dix with their top pick.

TJ Ward is playing lights-out. He was ranked as one of, if not thee highest rated safeties in pass protection by PFF. He is in his contract year and our new FO does the analytic thingy with veteran contracts but right now it seems that TJ should get paid. He's young enough.

This morning Tony Grossi was on the Big Show and he said that TJ is playing great. Defensive Coordinator Ray Horton named Tashon Gibson as his defensive MVP and Grossi claims that the team loves injured safety Josh Aubry and are high on him for next year.

I don't know how letting a very-good starting SS like TJ Ward go and blowing our first round pick on a rookie helps to add talent to a team so I'm opposed to any move like that which wastes an opportunity to add talent but is nothing but wheel spinning.

Link to the audio:

http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=70&c=2191&f=2190883

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You can all doubt me, but I nailed the Browns' last 2 first rounders (TRich and Mingo)... I am good friends with someone who works within the Browns organization, though he is not directly involved in the draft process.

I can tell you that with their first pick they are looking heavily at Kouandjio, Matthews (if he somehow fell) and Clinton-Dix... NOT a QB (from his info at this moment)

I don't think the Browns are painted into a corner where they 'have' to take a QB if they aren't sold on any of the prospects next year. Hate to say it but Mary Kay came up with a stat that surprised me. She said that Jason Cambell has not had a game with a quarterback passer rating under 105 in the three games where he was healthy including yesterday's game against the Pats.

Per the Browns going Clinton-Dix with their top pick.

TJ Ward is playing lights-out. He was ranked as one of, if not thee highest rated safeties in pass protection by PFF. He is in his contract year and our new FO does the analytic thingy with veteran contracts but right now it seems that TJ should get paid. He's young enough.

This morning Tony Grossi was on the Big Show and he said that TJ is playing great. Defensive Coordinator Ray Horton named Tashon Gibson as his defensive MVP and Grossi claims that the team loves injured safety Josh Aubry and are high on him for next year.

I don't know how letting a very-good starting SS like TJ Ward go and blowing our first round pick on a rookie helps to add talent to a team so I'm opposed to any move like that which wastes an opportunity to add talent but is nothing but wheel spinning.

Link to the audio:

http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=70&c=2191&f=2190883

Haha and TJ don't play the same position. TJ is more of an in the box type, Haha isn't as strong vs. the run - more of a sideline to sideline type.

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You can all doubt me, but I nailed the Browns' last 2 first rounders (TRich and Mingo)... I am good friends with someone who works within the Browns organization, though he is not directly involved in the draft process.

I can tell you that with their first pick they are looking heavily at Kouandjio, Matthews (if he somehow fell) and Clinton-Dix... NOT a QB (from his info at this moment)

I don't think the Browns are painted into a corner where they 'have' to take a QB if they aren't sold on any of the prospects next year. Hate to say it but Mary Kay came up with a stat that surprised me. She said that Jason Cambell has not had a game with a quarterback passer rating under 105 in the three games where he was healthy including yesterday's game against the Pats.

Per the Browns going Clinton-Dix with their top pick.

TJ Ward is playing lights-out. He was ranked as one of, if not thee highest rated safeties in pass protection by PFF. He is in his contract year and our new FO does the analytic thingy with veteran contracts but right now it seems that TJ should get paid. He's young enough.

This morning Tony Grossi was on the Big Show and he said that TJ is playing great. Defensive Coordinator Ray Horton named Tashon Gibson as his defensive MVP and Grossi claims that the team loves injured safety Josh Aubry and are high on him for next year.

I don't know how letting a very-good starting SS like TJ Ward go and blowing our first round pick on a rookie helps to add talent to a team so I'm opposed to any move like that which wastes an opportunity to add talent but is nothing but wheel spinning.

Link to the audio:

http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=70&c=2191&f=2190883

Haha and TJ don't play the same position. TJ is more of an in the box type, Haha isn't as strong vs. the run - more of a sideline to sideline type.

Well, let me ask you directly.

Would you want the Browns to let TJ walk and then turn around to use their top pick on a safety?

Or would you prefer they re-sign TJ to free up that first round pick to add talent at another position?

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You can all doubt me, but I nailed the Browns' last 2 first rounders (TRich and Mingo)... I am good friends with someone who works within the Browns organization, though he is not directly involved in the draft process.

I can tell you that with their first pick they are looking heavily at Kouandjio, Matthews (if he somehow fell) and Clinton-Dix... NOT a QB (from his info at this moment)

I don't think the Browns are painted into a corner where they 'have' to take a QB if they aren't sold on any of the prospects next year. Hate to say it but Mary Kay came up with a stat that surprised me. She said that Jason Cambell has not had a game with a quarterback passer rating under 105 in the three games where he was healthy including yesterday's game against the Pats.

Per the Browns going Clinton-Dix with their top pick.

TJ Ward is playing lights-out. He was ranked as one of, if not thee highest rated safeties in pass protection by PFF. He is in his contract year and our new FO does the analytic thingy with veteran contracts but right now it seems that TJ should get paid. He's young enough.

This morning Tony Grossi was on the Big Show and he said that TJ is playing great. Defensive Coordinator Ray Horton named Tashon Gibson as his defensive MVP and Grossi claims that the team loves injured safety Josh Aubry and are high on him for next year.

I don't know how letting a very-good starting SS like TJ Ward go and blowing our first round pick on a rookie helps to add talent to a team so I'm opposed to any move like that which wastes an opportunity to add talent but is nothing but wheel spinning.

Link to the audio:

http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=70&c=2191&f=2190883

Haha and TJ don't play the same position. TJ is more of an in the box type, Haha isn't as strong vs. the run - more of a sideline to sideline type.

Well, let me ask you directly.

Would you want the Browns to let TJ walk and then turn around to use their top pick on a safety?

Or would you prefer they re-sign TJ to free up that first round pick to add talent at another position?

I don't think the answer to the two questions are necessarily tied together.

I don't want to over pay to keep Ward. He has value, but I don't think he's one of the best safeties in the league. He's a thumper, but he's also had problems staying on the field and I think a lot of that stems from his playing style. If his asking price is too high, let him walk, and look to bring him back if no one else signs off on his demands. If we don't re-sign him we need to look for a band aid in free agency and draft a replacement, doesn't necessarily have to be an early round pick though.

If we really do like Clinton-Dix then pick him with plans on letting Gipson walk when his contract expires after next year. We have short term depth and a long term starter. Not with our #1 though, that's a Colts #1 quality pick. Clinton-Dix is a starter, but he's not a star and he doesn't play a premium position. If he doesn't fall then so be it - onto plan B.

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Do they have to let Ward be the one to walk?

Again, Im in the kojo camp

TJ is in his contract year so they have to make a decision one way or another.

They don't have to let him walk but why on earth would they use a top-ten pick on a safety with, TJ Ward as one of the highest rated strong safeties in the NFL, Tashon Gibson who Ray Horton claimed was his defensive MVP, and Josh Aubry who the team reportedly is very-high according to Tony Grossi in the intereview he did a few hours ago that i linked.

Per Kojo, he would be a right tackle, hmmn.

I think it would be wise to address RT with a pick but I think if the FO like one of the QBs or if some WR who could come-in and start immediately then I'd prefer to go QB obviously or WR over RT. I know this last year that RT were taken unusually high but it was a down year overall on talent and no QBs were deemed worthy of high selections and those RTs were taken with the thought they had the talent to eventually slide to the blind-side.

I don't know enough about 'Kujo' but it seems overpaying for either a safety or a RT with the top pick just on the surface, my opinion.

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Analyzing this year's WR class is going to yield a wide range of results. The only real consensus is it being deep. However, how big of a gap is there between the top 3 and tier 2? Tier 2 is strong, a lot stronger than previous years, but is it strong enough to justify passing on the top 3 in favor of other positions? As long as we get a top 50 WR I don't think there's a single wide receiver that will cause me to scratch my head. Whether we pick Sammy or Marqise early, Evans or Robinson a bit later, or a guy like Abbrederis or Beckham day 2 - there's starter quality value all over the place. If we pick another position and push WR to early day 2 I take no issue.

I take issue with the below though.


They don't have to let him walk but why on earth would they use a top-ten pick on a safety with, TJ Ward as one of the highest rated strong safeties in the NFL, Tashon Gibson who Ray Horton claimed was his defensive MVP, and Josh Aubry who the team reportedly is very-high according to Tony Grossi in the intereview he did a few hours ago that i linked.


Gipson has over achieved expectations, that's for sure. The Browns like what they saw in Aubry. Neither of those are reasons to pass on a starting caliber player at the same position. Cleveland has a decision to make on Gipson after 2014, re-sign or let him walk. I don't think it's unfair to say he is not in the teams plans beyond next year. he could force their hand next year, but wait and see before going down that road and make another plan now. And I don't think that plan should be a guy they liked in camp and special teams, but otherwise haven't seen much of. I'm not saying go get Clinton-Dix, I'm saying I won't throw my arms up in the air if they do because the strategy makes sense.

By the way, Kojo, beast. Total beast. I'm with you on not wanting to overpay for a tackle, but...he's a beast. Get him started at RT and maybe he takes over at LT whenever Thomas' days are over. One of these years we'll get burned not having a backup for him, so if we have the chance to get one...

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The way I see it, there's a lot of optimism going on about Hoyer with a very limited body of work to look at. Jason Campbell has also been really impressive in the games he's played this season, but the defense has failed to protect the lead he gave them and he comes away with a heartbreaker loss instead of the win he earned. Hoyer looked impressive against one of the easiest teams to beat up on (MIN), but he still threw 3 picks in that game...and then played well against a CIN defense that has been pretty inconsistent all year. If the Browns defense had been able to hold it together to get wins against KC and NE, do you think we'd be talking about Campbell as an answer at QB? I realize Hoyer is 4 years younger, but it seems like a lot of trust to pass over drafting a QB. I like the idea of Mettenberger in the 3rd, especially if they really do go with Hoyer all year and just give Mett a year to sit on the bench and learn the offense...no forcing him into service with high expectations.

I thought Hoyer looked good too, and the offense seemed to click around him when he started, but I also think that the offense was built well enough to do something this year and that the major problem was Weeden constantly turning the ball over and killing drives.

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oh, and btw, this draft was generally panned as a mediocre to sub-standard draft by most people in the know.

so i'm not understanding how they were supposed to vastly improve the team in one off-season.

IMO, you address your deficiencies.

At least I heard Kruger's name called today (for the first time all season). Of course, the DBs, sans Haden, blow chunks.

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video quality was bad on my phone.

but he does look like he's got a quick release.

i feel like the Browns really need a good possession receiver/move the chains/good hands guy if they roll with someone like Carr or Hoyer.

They need a WR2...period. I'm tired of seeing Little drop passes.

second first round pick, mike Evans or Allen Robinson.

Evans will be gone by the time the Browns 2nd pick is on the clock.

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I see some sites mocking Bortles or Carr to the Browns, please no.

Get a tackle so Schwartz can move in to right guard, and address the secondary in the 1st round.

Take the best avilable receiver in the 2nd round.

I would be seriously tempted to take Watkins at WR with the1st pick then, try to move back up to get Kojo to play RT.

Risky but I'd be doing cartwheels if we got out of the 1st round with those 2 picks.

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I see some sites mocking Bortles or Carr to the Browns, please no.

Get a tackle so Schwartz can move in to right guard, and address the secondary in the 1st round.

Take the best avilable receiver in the 2nd round.

I would be seriously tempted to take Watkins at WR with the1st pick then, try to move back up to get Kojo to play RT.

Risky but I'd be doing cartwheels if we got out of the 1st round with those 2 picks.

So you want Clev heading into next season with the same QBs?
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video quality was bad on my phone.

but he does look like he's got a quick release.

i feel like the Browns really need a good possession receiver/move the chains/good hands guy if they roll with someone like Carr or Hoyer.

They need a WR2...period. I'm tired of seeing Little drop passes.

second first round pick, mike Evans or Allen Robinson.

Evans will be gone by the time the Browns 2nd pick is on the clock.

I expect teams to over react when he runs a questionable 40 time.

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I see some sites mocking Bortles or Carr to the Browns, please no.

Get a tackle so Schwartz can move in to right guard, and address the secondary in the 1st round.

Take the best avilable receiver in the 2nd round.

I would be seriously tempted to take Watkins at WR with the1st pick then, try to move back up to get Kojo to play RT.

Risky but I'd be doing cartwheels if we got out of the 1st round with those 2 picks.

So you want Clev heading into next season with the same QBs?

No, get a QB most likely with one of the 3rd round picks or the 2nd round pick depending on what happens in round 1 trying to go Watkins/Kojo in round 1.

Mettenberger may drop to round 3.

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I see some sites mocking Bortles or Carr to the Browns, please no.

Get a tackle so Schwartz can move in to right guard, and address the secondary in the 1st round.

Take the best avilable receiver in the 2nd round.

I would be seriously tempted to take Watkins at WR with the1st pick then, try to move back up to get Kojo to play RT.

Risky but I'd be doing cartwheels if we got out of the 1st round with those 2 picks.

So you want Clev heading into next season with the same QBs?

No, get a QB most likely with one of the 3rd round picks or the 2nd round pick depending on what happens in round 1 trying to go Watkins/Kojo in round 1.

Mettenberger may drop to round 3.

I'm only behind this strategy if we have a specific target (and a plan B) in place. We've ####ed up team building since Couch flamed out because we continue taking this approach instead of just seeing the guy and going and getting him.

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I see some sites mocking Bortles or Carr to the Browns, please no.

Get a tackle so Schwartz can move in to right guard, and address the secondary in the 1st round.

Take the best avilable receiver in the 2nd round.

I would be seriously tempted to take Watkins at WR with the1st pick then, try to move back up to get Kojo to play RT.

Risky but I'd be doing cartwheels if we got out of the 1st round with those 2 picks.

So you want Clev heading into next season with the same QBs?

No, get a QB most likely with one of the 3rd round picks or the 2nd round pick depending on what happens in round 1 trying to go Watkins/Kojo in round 1.

Mettenberger may drop to round 3.

I'm only behind this strategy if we have a specific target (and a plan B) in place. We've ####ed up team building since Couch flamed out because we continue taking this approach instead of just seeing the guy and going and getting him.

Pretty sure we went and got Weeden at number 22 and that didn't work out too well.

Seeing the guy and going to get him isn't any guarantee that he will work out.

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I see some sites mocking Bortles or Carr to the Browns, please no.

Get a tackle so Schwartz can move in to right guard, and address the secondary in the 1st round.

Take the best avilable receiver in the 2nd round.

I would be seriously tempted to take Watkins at WR with the1st pick then, try to move back up to get Kojo to play RT.

Risky but I'd be doing cartwheels if we got out of the 1st round with those 2 picks.

So you want Clev heading into next season with the same QBs?

No, get a QB most likely with one of the 3rd round picks or the 2nd round pick depending on what happens in round 1 trying to go Watkins/Kojo in round 1.

Mettenberger may drop to round 3.

I'm only behind this strategy if we have a specific target (and a plan B) in place. We've ####ed up team building since Couch flamed out because we continue taking this approach instead of just seeing the guy and going and getting him.

Pretty sure we went and got Weeden at number 22 and that didn't work out too well.

Seeing the guy and going to get him isn't any guarantee that he will work out.

No. We wanted Kendall Wright at 22 and Weeden with pick 37. We didn't make a plan B for Wright and panic picked Weeden after Wright went off the board two picks prior.

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Right now we're in the 5 spot for the 2014 draft. With a huge stroke of luck we could move up to 3.

Any chance we try to jump up and get Bridgewater (assuming he comes out)?

No.

The reason is the Texans have a firm grip on the first pick and Bridgewater goes there.

------

Notes on yesterday's game.

- Rookie OG Garrett Gilkey go a shot to start and was playing at right guard over Shuan Lavauo and he looked 'decent'. Its possible he becomes the starting RG next year.

- Rookie CB Leon McFadden was getting lots of playing time due to CB Joe Haden aggrivating his hip injury. McFadden gave up receptions but he showed some burst and broke up a pass or two. He still looks lost out there but he has the athletic talent to play if he develops. Right now he can't realistically be projected as a starter next year but they should keep him and allow him to develop because he's got some skill.

- QB Jason Cambell is nothing other than a veteran backup QB who can fill-in for a game or two but he folds under pressure of being 'thee-guy'

- RB Edwain Baker actually looks like a starting NFL RB. He may have played himself into a long-look next year.

===========================

- Hearing that both SS TJ Ward AND OC Alex Mack will probably walk if they get big free agent offers so that opens up two more holes on a team that needs every bit of talent it can muster

- The 2014 draft looks deep at WR. I don't think we use a first round pick on a WR

- The 2014 draft also looks deep at RB, looks like we can land a good one after the second round.

- Don't forget about free agent OT Chris Faulk from LSU. He was projected as a possible 'first-round' draft pick prior to injurying his knee. He had off-season surgery and it seems like the team could have landed a gem for next year. His surgery went well.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2013/8/14/4622752/more-surgery-for-browns-rb-montario-hardesty-ot-chris-faulk

... Chudzinski also revealed that undrafted rookie free agent offensive tackle Chris Faulk had arthroscopic surgery on his right knee Monday. Faulk has missed all of the offseason programs and training camp. Unlike Hardesty, Faulk is a fairly obvious candidate to land on injured reserve so the team can stash him away for a season while he gets ready to compete in training camp in 2014.

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video quality was bad on my phone.

but he does look like he's got a quick release.

i feel like the Browns really need a good possession receiver/move the chains/good hands guy if they roll with someone like Carr or Hoyer.

They need a WR2...period. I'm tired of seeing Little drop passes.

second first round pick, mike Evans or Allen Robinson.

Evans will be gone by the time the Browns 2nd pick is on the clock.

I expect teams to over react when he runs a questionable 40 time.

what are you expecting? i think most are expecting something like a 4.55 (anything faster would be gravy and cause his stock to rise from the mid-first). now, if he runs a ponderous, lineman-like 4.7 (i think the NO rookie LT ran a 4.7 this year?), that is different.

didn't you suggest three WRs could go in the top five (i think watkins might be the only top 10 WR, i could see two, doubtful three going in the top 10, don't see any way three WRs go in the top five overall picks, between the QBs, clowney and matthews ticketed for three or more of those picks) in the other thread? if so, hard to see how evans would be around in the mid-twenties (depending on where IND finishes).

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I don't care what he runs, game tape doesn't lie.

Just because I think he is a top five player doesn't mean he will be a top five pick.

This is an incredible wr class. Elite and deep.

oh i agree that there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with his game, field speed. but you seemed to have something in mind when you alluded to this... "I expect teams to over react when he runs a questionable 40 time."

what questionable time are you expecting, such that teams will over react to it?

i also agree that it looks like a strong and deep class. i interpreted what you said in the other thread as three WRs could go in top five picks (see below), but maybe that isn't what you meant, in which case, again, we agree.

Quez, on 22 Dec 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:snapback.png

I really could see 3 WRs going in the top 10. They are sexy picks and It is a pretty big need for several of the teams expected to be drafting near the top. Most people think the top 3 guys would have all been the best WR in 2013.⁴

"more like top five, this wr class is both top heavy and deep. Last year was just deep."

anyways, if teams "over react" to a hypothetical perceived slow time that drops him to the neighborhood of the IND pick, it sounds like he won't be going anywhere near the top 10. and if he does go in or around the top 10, that means by definition they won't have taken a big issue with his time. one of these could be plausible, but hard to reconcile how both could?

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Teams over reacting to a sub optimal 40 would not be a new thing. Further we get from actual football the dumber decision maker's get.

agree, so what kind of sub-optimal 40 are you expecting?

and it sounds like you don't see three WRs going in the top five (in which case, again, agree).

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I don't know. We'll find put in February.

I wouldn't rule out point two either.

gotcha, you seemed to have something in mind (40 time-wise*) to think he would drop based on a disappointing time, which you didn't phrase like a maybe, but guess not (therefore no basis to think he will drop - you could wait until february to suggest it... if it is even relevant any longer).

i would. almost no chance of three top five WRs (phrased in a qualified manner and i suppose that isn't ruling it out, but unlikely enough to approach virtually no chance for practical purposes).

again, if he goes in the top five, he won't be around for the IND pick. if he is around for the IND pick, that means he went nowhere near a top five pick (unless you improbably think three WRs OTHER THAN EVANS could go in the top five?).

* for the record, i think he clocks a 4.55, in line with expectations, and is long gone by the IND pick (hard to see the jets passing on him if watkins is gone already). BTW, the majority of possible draft disussion material falls into the category of we will know more in february (should we answer ALL speculative draft questions/observations that way, including your own?), but that doesn't stop us from talking about it in the interim (or speculating evans will be around for the IND pick on the basis of a perceived slow time, albeit one that can't be characterized in any way).

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If they want him and project him as a top 15 pick then they can either use the Indy pick and other assets to trade or use ours to trade back and accumulate more assets.

obviously, but than it would be more accurate, instead of saying that Evans would be there with the IND pick like above, to say that they would need to package it with something else. the point made above specifically referred to him falling to the IND pick (I can only respond to what you said, not what you didn't say), because of teams over reacting to a hypothetical slow 40 time (remember?). the subject of dropping from 1.5 to 1.15 wasn't broached.

again, it isn't possible to simultaneously view him as a top 25 prospect (which you seemed to imply with the speculative "predicted"/implied expectation of a sub-optimal 40 time leading to speculation this would cause teams to over react leading to speculation he would be around with the IND pick - but than not wanting to speculate on what that sub-optimal 40 time would be... though this was the basis of your point in the first place?) and a top five prospect (three top five WRs). you can be right about one of those points, but not both.

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I said or. There are also other very good wr options. I don't think playing 900 what if games is productive. Neither is this convo. I like him. A lot. I think NFL teams will over react to a less than dsireable 40. Given the wr depth he may become a bargain. He may not. All it tales is one team.

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I said or. There are also other very good wr options. I don't think playing 900 what if games is productive. Neither is this convo. I like him. A lot. I think NFL teams will over react to a less than dsireable 40. Given the wr depth he may become a bargain. He may not. All it tales is one team.

that is clear. he may be a bargain. he may not. and maybe you think he is top 25. or top 5. or top 15. thanks for clarifying and nailing down those points on where you stand.

(it just takes once, not 900 times to say where you think he goes, based on the hypothetical, speculative, what if-based [[you seem to be far more comfortable with it when you do it]] sub-optimal 40 time... you can also say, wait until the combine, which you did, but that undermines and self-refutes the whole premise of an expected sub-optimal 40 time).

tabled until the combine.

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The club hasn't gotten blown out of any games this year, they got raped in New England, they've had to start 3 different quarterbacks. This isn't the 1999 starting from scratch with zero talent club.

Priority-1 seems to be to re-sign C Alex Mack in the off-season. Priority-2 resign SS TJ Ward. Draft the franchise QB if they feel one is avaiable.

We've got a solid, young core of players to turn things around quickly if we keep the core together and get that quarterback.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/28/five-browns-voted-to-pro-bowl/

Five Browns voted to Pro Bowl
Posted by Mike Wilkening on December 28, 2013, 12:28 AM EST

On Sunday, the Browns’ 2013 campaign concludes without a playoff berth for the 11th consecutive season.

However, those who believe Cleveland could soon have better days ahead can look to the Pro Bowl roster for reassurance.

Five Browns are slated to play in Hawaii in January: left tackle Joe Thomas, center Alex Mack, wide receiver Josh Gordon, tight end Jordan Cameron and cornerback Joe Haden.

For Thomas, it’s his 7th Pro Bowl nod. Mack, who’s a free agent at season’s end, has been selected to the Pro Bowl for the second time. Meanwhile, Gordon, Cameron and Haden are all slated to make their first appearances in the NFL’s all-star game.

Only Kansas City (eight players), San Francisco (eight) and Seattle (six) have more Pro Bowlers than Cleveland.

With two first-round picks in the 2014 NFL Draft, the Browns are poised to continue adding talented players to an already solid core. Now, it comes down to whether they can find a solution at quarterback, a position they have struggled to fill since returning to the NFL in 1999.

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