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***Official Pro Wrestling Thread*** (14 Viewers)

ShamrockPride said:
The reason why Austin was able to get so insanely over with a limited move set was cause he understood ring psychology as good as anyone ever. Sure the writing helped, but he would be cheered in any era because the guy can just put on an emotionally engaging match. I don't see anybody on the roster today (outside of old school guys like H/Cena/Taker/etc who understands ring psychology. It is a long forgotten part of the profession.
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SlaX said:
Austin was a great wrestler with a wide move set prior to Owen driving him into the mat.  After that, he had to change his wrestling style and that's where everyone gets his "limited move set".  The company as a whole got on a 2 (or so) year run there where they really weren't lighting the world on fire when it comes to work rate.  Austin was leading the whole company with a brawling style.  It worked, because it was getting over in ECW too.   But you're absolutely right about Austin's ring psychology.  He was better than pretty much anyone else on the roster, aside from maybe Taker, once Bret went to WCW and Shawn took off to heal his back.
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Yeah, I agree.  He was capable of being a very good technical wrestler if that's what he wanted to do.  An amazing performer.  In that era he didn't need that, though. I feel like a lot of today's fans would almost rather have the Ringmaster than Stone Cold.  I give HHH a lot of credit for recognizing that and making the NXT brand, which I think caters to this crowd a little more. 

Ring psychology does appear to be a lost art.  A lot of guys really capable of putting on great matches, but very few good at actually doing the things that draw money.  Part of that is the writing, but I think it goes deeper than that. 

 
Having watched Matanza Cueto take out 8 wrestlers last week during Aztec Warfare 2 and pretty much destroy Pentagon Jr last night, is he becoming a division killer?

 
Tom Servo said:
Having watched Matanza Cueto take out 8 wrestlers last week during Aztec Warfare 2 and pretty much destroy Pentagon Jr last night, is he becoming a division killer?
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Really, really bad booking move to feed Pentagon to him right away. He's the most over babyface in Lucha Underground (whether he is one or not is up to interpretation) and unless they plan on Pentagon getting redemption later on, they should have saved this one and built it up more.

I would have had him kill Puma because...

Ricochet (the guy that plays Puma) is rumored to be leaving Lucha Underground after Season 2.
 
ShamrockPride said:
The reason why Austin was able to get so insanely over with a limited move set was cause he understood ring psychology as good as anyone ever. Sure the writing helped, but he would be cheered in any era because the guy can just put on an emotionally engaging match. I don't see anybody on the roster today (outside of old school guys like H/Cena/Taker/etc who understands ring psychology. It is a long forgotten part of the profession.
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I agree with most of this, ring psychology is arguably the most important thing in wrestling, especially to someone like me, but the bolded is kind of silly. HHH and Taker are/were good at ring psychology, not great. Its no coincidence that both their best matches were with Shawn Michaels, who would be on the Mount Rushmore of ring psychology. I think the Mount Rushmore is...Michaels, Bret Hart, Flair and I guess Austin, although it drops off after the first 3, and guys like Steamboat, Pillman, Benoit, Guerrero and Angle could all be in the conversation. 

Cena is a trainwreck at this though. He is the king of the "the first 20 minutes of this match didn't matter, I'm perfectly fine and here's my finisher." He's almost devoid of ring psychology, which is why all his best matches, are matches that he loses, because those are the ones that actually tell a story. 

There are plenty of great ring psychologists among the newer class of wrestlers. Sami Zayn is an expert at this, as is Kevin Owens. Ambrose and Rollins are both solid here as well. Sasha Banks and Bayley are excellent at it, and had it on display more in their feud, than in any other feud in the past year.

 
travdogg said:
I agree with most of this, ring psychology is arguably the most important thing in wrestling, especially to someone like me, but the bolded is kind of silly. HHH and Taker are/were good at ring psychology, not great. Its no coincidence that both their best matches were with Shawn Michaels, who would be on the Mount Rushmore of ring psychology. I think the Mount Rushmore is...Michaels, Bret Hart, Flair and I guess Austin, although it drops off after the first 3, and guys like Steamboat, Pillman, Benoit, Guerrero and Angle could all be in the conversation. 
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Other guys that I'd consider for that list:  Arn Anderson, Jake Roberts, Chris Jericho, William Regal, Fit Finlay, and CM Punk.

 
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GoFishTN said:
Scuttlebutt is WWE has designed a new Women's Championship belt and will be ditching the Diva's branding (for the division) on the RAW after WM.
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Thank god.  I wonder if this means Charlotte drops the title.  I would think dropping that abomination in the trash is best suited for a babyface. 

 
Jeremy said:
Thank god.  I wonder if this means Charlotte drops the title.  I would think dropping that abomination in the trash is best suited for a babyface. 
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I can see Sasha walking away with the title on Sunday.  She has a little more charisma and personality than Charlotte imo

 
Peak said:
I can see Sasha walking away with the title on Sunday.  She has a little more charisma and personality than Charlotte imo
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That's what I'm thinking.  She's got the kind of attitude to pull it off.  Kinda of like when the Rock dumped the Cena spinning belt for the current one. 

 
I think Charlotte walks out with the title. She comes out with a new unrecognized belt on Raw that they blur out. :excited:  But seriously, glad they're ditching the whole divas crap.

Sasha win will be more meaningful in a 1-on-1 with Charlotte IMO

 
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Craig_MiamiFL said:
I think Charlotte walks out with the title. She comes out with a new unrecognized belt on Raw that they blur out. :excited:  But seriously, glad they're ditching the whole divas crap.

Sasha win will be more meaningful in a 1-on-1 with Charlotte IMO
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Exactly what I was thinking. 

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
I think Charlotte walks out with the title. She comes out with a new unrecognized belt on Raw that they blur out. :excited:  But seriously, glad they're ditching the whole divas crap.

Sasha win will be more meaningful in a 1-on-1 with Charlotte IMO
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I don't see Charolotte retaining.  I agree with the odds makers; I'll be shocked if it's not Sasha.  Charlotte's been cemented as a heel, and they can't possibly pull the "she and her daddy cheated!" angle again at Mania.  It also makes more sense to debut the new belt with a new champ, imo.  

I like all 3, but that's how I see it going down at least. 

 
SlaX said:
Baby steps.  

Today's equivalent should have been this:  Roman Reigns joins New Day (back when they were hated).  "New Day Sucks! New Day Sucks!"   Allow Reigns to build into a character.   And I stress the word character because as of right now, he has none.  He is bland and boring and the WWUniverse doesn't care about him.  Turning him heel isn't going to change that, because then all he will be is a heel with no character.  ... Build him up with New Day and let him find himself, allow the crowd to organically care about him.  And just when he's starting to get over... BOOM!  Roman Reigns destroys New Day and becomes the Authority's Champion.  

They could've done all this while he was still in The Shield, but Roman never found himself.  The only way he gets over right now as a heel is with a mouthpiece - enter Paul Heyman.  But is that enough?  Paul Heyman couldn't get Curtis Axel over.  Remember when he managed Curtis?   I don't think that running Reigns as an ###-kicking robot is enough to get him over, but that's what they're doing - well, he playing a robot would probably be an improvement.
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Very good call.  Reigns can surely be a silent killer plot tool, but I'm not sure he's cut out to be more than that.  Maybe he's just a Kane?  To your point on Rocky: I think The Rock was always The Rock, to be cliche.  Handle Roman as well as possible and I'm still not sure what he is.  He has no charisma - and I'm not sure you can teach that.  

 
Reigns the cocky arrogant heel will be over. And if you have any doubt that he would be (which I don't unless he's scripted word for word), put Eva Marie with him :lol:

There's zero chance face Reigns gets over anytime soon. As bad as I will always #### on WWE's current lack of booking & storylines, I can't see them passing up this opportunity no later than next week's Raw.

 
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Reactions: RBM
I hope they never flip Reigns. He's the next Cena. Kids need someone to latch onto long-term. Mine like Roman, and they are confused about why anyone would boo him...and you know what, Roman is a good dude. Go back and watch the WWE24 from last year. That's the guy I want my kids cheering for.

 
JB Breakfast Club said:
I hope they never flip Reigns. He's the next Cena. Kids need someone to latch onto long-term. Mine like Roman, and they are confused about why anyone would boo him...and you know what, Roman is a good dude. Go back and watch the WWE24 from last year. That's the guy I want my kids cheering for.
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Isn't he just a generic face, though?  Wouldn't they follow the next guy they put in that role? I just think there has to be someone better up for the task, who can also appeal to kids.

 
JB Breakfast Club said:
I hope they never flip Reigns. He's the next Cena. Kids need someone to latch onto long-term. Mine like Roman, and they are confused about why anyone would boo him...and you know what, Roman is a good dude. Go back and watch the WWE24 from last year. That's the guy I want my kids cheering for.
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Except, and I'm certainly not a Cena fan, Cena can talk for 10+ minutes and sound convincing doing it. A top guy has to do that, or have someone who does it for him(ala Heyman with Brock, or Paul Bearer with Taker) Reigns can't even remotely do that. In what ways is he even similar to Cena? 

Kids are pretty fickle, I mean by definition they pretty much have to be, because they are learning more day-to-day than adults are, and that level of learning comes with wildly switching interests and opinions.  My point being that, I don't necessarily think they need someone to latch onto long term. Even if they did, why should it be Reigns? Again, I pretty much loathe the Cena character, but I understand why people like him, and he's obviously an excellent ambassador for them, but he's also worked pretty hard to be that. What has Reigns done? Being a good dude isn't something special, its the expectation.

I feel like that long term replacement for Cena in that regard was going to be Daniel Bryan, and he would have been perfect because he's one of the only people to ever unite both the adults and kids to like him. Looking over the roster, I think Ambrose has shown some signs he could be that guy. Sami Zayn has been that guy on NXT for 2 years, and by all accounts, is pretty much the nicest dude there is.

I'm childless myself, but I'm confused why he's "the guy I want my kids cheering for" as you said. I mean, why? What quality does that character have that makes him seem a a good role model? I'm not trying to start an argument by means, I'm just genuinely wondering, because I feel the character has come off as a whiner and a crybaby whenever things don't go his way, and that doesn't seem role model like to me. Contrast that to even someone like Ambrose, who was beaten by HHH on a technicality, but didn't whine or complain, or attack him after a match, but just accepted it and moved onto the next thing.  

 
travdogg said:
I'm childless myself, but I'm confused why he's "the guy I want my kids cheering for" as you said. I mean, why? What quality does that character have that makes him seem a a good role model? I'm not trying to start an argument by means, I'm just genuinely wondering, because I feel the character has come off as a whiner and a crybaby whenever things don't go his way, and that doesn't seem role model like to me. Contrast that to even someone like Ambrose, who was beaten by HHH on a technicality, but didn't whine or complain, or attack him after a match, but just accepted it and moved onto the next thing.  
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Have you watched the 24 special?  He is all about family. When he settles in and can be himself, I am very confident he will be the guy cheering up cancer kids, etc. Consider where Cena was in his third year...a rapping doufos. I really think Reigns is a 15 year investment, and it'd be very short sighted to turn him to cater to smarks. 

 
Concept Coop said:
I don't see Charolotte retaining.  I agree with the odds makers; I'll be shocked if it's not Sasha.  Charlotte's been cemented as a heel, and they can't possibly pull the "she and her daddy cheated!" angle again at Mania.  It also makes more sense to debut the new belt with a new champ, imo.  

I like all 3, but that's how I see it going down at least. 
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I also don't see Charlotte retaining. If it means anything - and by that I mean nothing - Sasha Banks' Instagram account has taken a slightly different tone. One of her pictures was of her posing in front of Jerruh World in a kind of "I can't believe I'm in WM" kind of thing. Others have been less of her fans in her gear and more of herself and the lead-up to WM.

That said, since we're talking WWE here, I'm guessing Sasha pins Becky to win the title so we get this 3-woman cluster of foxes going for a while longer.

 
Tom Servo said:
I also don't see Charlotte retaining. If it means anything - and by that I mean nothing - Sasha Banks' Instagram account has taken a slightly different tone. One of her pictures was of her posing in front of Jerruh World in a kind of "I can't believe I'm in WM" kind of thing. Others have been less of her fans in her gear and more of herself and the lead-up to WM.

That said, since we're talking WWE here, I'm guessing Sasha pins Becky to win the title so we get this 3-woman cluster of foxes going for a while longer.
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Then do we get Bailey on Mon. nights RAW?

 
Predictions for NXT Takeover-Dallas:


 


Matches


Predictions


1


Austin Aries vs. Baron Corbin


Corbin goes over in a good match. He then cuts a heel promo about  how he is at the front of the line over "those little Indy guys". We get Aries v. Corbin for a while as Aries finally gets his win at the next Takeover.


2


The Revival (Scott Dawson and Dash Wilder) (c) vs. American Alpha (Jason Jordan and Chad Gable)


Could be the match of the night, which is stupid to say with what is to follow. American Alpha go over as we need Face Tag Champs. They defend against all of the Heel Teams while Enzo and Cass move up to the Main Roster.


3


Sami Zayn vs. Shinsuke Nakamura


I don't care who wins this match, I just can't wait to see Nakamura outside of You Tube clips. Of course, easily could be match of the night.


4


Bayley (c) vs. Asuka


I think one of the singles champions lose, either Bailey or Balor. And I think whoever loses, ends up on RAW the next night. I predict it's Bailey. If the rumors are true about the new belt, you could get Stephanie presenting the winner from WM with the new belt "with your new belt, we have a new challenger...." Oh yeah, good choice for match of the night.


5


Finn Bálor (c) vs. Samoa Joe


Finn needs to lose soon, but I don't think it's tonight, and I don't think it's to Joe. Best case is we get Gallows and Anderson coming out to help Finn and we get a Heel/Face flop with Joe the defeated sympathetic Face who gets his final revenge at the next Takeover as Balor Club heads to the main roster. Like the others, solid match of the night choice. 



Without the Seth Rollins moment at last year's WM, I think the NXT show would have been better than it's big brother show. This year, I'm almost sure the NXT show will be better. In half the time.

 
Bogart said:
Predictions for NXT Takeover-Dallas:


 


Matches


Predictions


1


Austin Aries vs. Baron Corbin


Corbin goes over in a good match. He then cuts a heel promo about  how he is at the front of the line over "those little Indy guys". We get Aries v. Corbin for a while as Aries finally gets his win at the next Takeover.


2


The Revival (Scott Dawson and Dash Wilder) (c) vs. American Alpha (Jason Jordan and Chad Gable)


Could be the match of the night, which is stupid to say with what is to follow. American Alpha go over as we need Face Tag Champs. They defend against all of the Heel Teams while Enzo and Cass move up to the Main Roster.


3


Sami Zayn vs. Shinsuke Nakamura


I don't care who wins this match, I just can't wait to see Nakamura outside of You Tube clips. Of course, easily could be match of the night.


4


Bayley (c) vs. Asuka


I think one of the singles champions lose, either Bailey or Balor. And I think whoever loses, ends up on RAW the next night. I predict it's Bailey. If the rumors are true about the new belt, you could get Stephanie presenting the winner from WM with the new belt "with your new belt, we have a new challenger...." Oh yeah, good choice for match of the night.


5


Finn Bálor (c) vs. Samoa Joe


Finn needs to lose soon, but I don't think it's tonight, and I don't think it's to Joe. Best case is we get Gallows and Anderson coming out to help Finn and we get a Heel/Face flop with Joe the defeated sympathetic Face who gets his final revenge at the next Takeover as Balor Club heads to the main roster. Like the others, solid match of the night choice. 



Without the Seth Rollins moment at last year's WM, I think the NXT show would have been better than it's big brother show. This year, I'm almost sure the NXT show will be better. In half the time.
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Im pretty confident there will be some kind of Rollins moment in the taker/shane match, otherwise why have it?

 
KiddLattimer said:
Im pretty confident there will be some kind of Rollins moment in the taker/shane match, otherwise why have it?
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Word is, HIAC is going on last. If that's the case, I would love to see Shane go over with whatever help needed, then you focus on Taker as the crowd realizes they just saw his last match. The locker room empties, you have a few surprises (HBK, Bret Hart, Kevin Von Erich :homer:) join them as well to see the Deadman off. His last WM moment.

 
Bogart said:
Predictions for NXT Takeover-Dallas:


 


Matches


Predictions


1


Austin Aries vs. Baron Corbin


Corbin goes over in a good match. He then cuts a heel promo about  how he is at the front of the line over "those little Indy guys". We get Aries v. Corbin for a while as Aries finally gets his win at the next Takeover.


2


The Revival (Scott Dawson and Dash Wilder) (c) vs. American Alpha (Jason Jordan and Chad Gable)


Could be the match of the night, which is stupid to say with what is to follow. American Alpha go over as we need Face Tag Champs. They defend against all of the Heel Teams while Enzo and Cass move up to the Main Roster.


3


Sami Zayn vs. Shinsuke Nakamura


I don't care who wins this match, I just can't wait to see Nakamura outside of You Tube clips. Of course, easily could be match of the night.


4


Bayley (c) vs. Asuka


I think one of the singles champions lose, either Bailey or Balor. And I think whoever loses, ends up on RAW the next night. I predict it's Bailey. If the rumors are true about the new belt, you could get Stephanie presenting the winner from WM with the new belt "with your new belt, we have a new challenger...." Oh yeah, good choice for match of the night.


5


Finn Bálor (c) vs. Samoa Joe


Finn needs to lose soon, but I don't think it's tonight, and I don't think it's to Joe. Best case is we get Gallows and Anderson coming out to help Finn and we get a Heel/Face flop with Joe the defeated sympathetic Face who gets his final revenge at the next Takeover as Balor Club heads to the main roster. Like the others, solid match of the night choice. 



Without the Seth Rollins moment at last year's WM, I think the NXT show would have been better than it's big brother show. This year, I'm almost sure the NXT show will be better. In half the time.
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Can't wait for this tonight. I think Revival holds serve tonight but Alpha wins next time out. I think Asuka wins and we get Bailey Monday night. And I think Balor retains and we get Joe Monday night. 

I think Crews is also on the card isn't he?  Feels like he's getting lost in the shuffle now. And when the heck is Itami due back?  Seems like he's been gone forever. 

 
So, still haven't gotten into NXT and such since getting the WWE Network, but I am watching the great throwbacks and the Legends w JBL is FANTASTIC.

Saw the Michael Hayes episode, and he predicted that Roman would be the next superstar of WWE... reading above, seems like he's in a bit of an awkward phase... what's going on?

eta: this wknds PPV will be the first Ive seen in a legit 10+yrs

 
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Nakamura might be my favorite active wrestler.  I'm excited for the NXT stuff, but they never do anything with the Japanese talent on the main roster.  Kind of hoping the contract is short.  

And Nakamura/Zayn is my lean for match of the weekend.  

 
RBM said:
Can't wait for this tonight. I think Revival holds serve tonight but Alpha wins next time out. I think Asuka wins and we get Bailey Monday night. And I think Balor retains and we get Joe Monday night. 

I think Crews is also on the card isn't he?  Feels like he's getting lost in the shuffle now. And when the heck is Itami due back?  Seems like he's been gone forever. 
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You think Bayley gets an instant title (shot) push?  While growing, the division is shallow enough to justify it.  There's also a built in storyline, with Bayley having defeated Sasha twice in a row.

 
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I feel like we're going to get a Shield reunion either in the Title match or the Ambrose match. 

Maybe in the women's title match they'll have Becky win, leading to a beatdown by Charlotte and Sasha and then Bayley comes out of the crowd in street clothes to save Becky. 

 
Concept Coop said:
You think Bayley gets an instant title (shot) push?  While growing, the division is shallow enough to justify it.  There's also a built in storyline, with Bayley having defeated Sasha twice in a row.
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Yeah can definitely see the above scenario kind of play out. Sasha celebrating with her new belt when her old pal comes out to put her on notice. But having her have to go thru Charlotte and Becky first is probably more likely than instant title shot. 

 
Bogart said:
KiddLattimer said:
Im pretty confident there will be some kind of Rollins moment in the taker/shane match, otherwise why have it?
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Word is, HIAC is going on last. If that's the case, I would love to see Shane go over with whatever help needed, then you focus on Taker as the crowd realizes they just saw his last match. The locker room empties, you have a few surprises (HBK, Bret Hart, Kevin Von Erich :homer:) join them as well to see the Deadman off. His last WM moment.
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I still think the Balor Club will make their debut running in to help Shane defeat Taker.  Shane could use them as "his friend's from Japan" where he's been a successful businessman.  It would feel like a new type of invasion angle.

 
RBM said:
Can't wait for this tonight. I think Revival holds serve tonight but Alpha wins next time out. I think Asuka wins and we get Bailey Monday night. And I think Balor retains and we get Joe Monday night. 

I think Crews is also on the card isn't he?  Feels like he's getting lost in the shuffle now. And when the heck is Itami due back?  Seems like he's been gone forever. 
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Crews will take on Elias "Don't Call me Honky Tonk Man" Samson. No way he doesn't go over.

Predictions for tonight:

Corbin, Alpha, Shinsuke (Zayn has nothing left to accomplish and Shinsuke needs a win on his debut), Bayley (let Asuka chase a bit), Joe (hello main roster, Balor Club).

 
You could give Bailey an instant title shot without an instant push. Intro her as the newest challenger to the new belt, she loses, then gets in line behind everyone else.

 
Peak said:
I still think the Balor Club will make their debut running in to help Shane defeat Taker.  Shane could use them as "his friend's from Japan" where he's been a successful businessman.  It would feel like a new type of invasion angle.
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I just don't think you can debut them in the last match at Mania.  The average fan doesn't know who the Bullet Club is.  I could see them doing something in the Battle Royal and building from that.  But I think Shane gets help from a big gun- Rock, Cena, Rollins, HBK, etc.

 
Bogart said:
You could give Bailey an instant title shot without an instant push. Intro her as the newest challenger to the new belt, she loses, then gets in line behind everyone else.
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I could see this.  It would also serve to legitimize Sasha's reign a bit more.  I certainly wouldn't say no to more matches between the two of them.  

 
Which to watch live: WM or Walking Dead finale   :wall:

Wife and daughter wants TWD and they are like just start WM after that is over.  But I just can't see me enjoying a four hour show getting over after midnight. 

I can't remember the last WM I didn't watch live. This is a quandary. 

 
Concept Coop said:
I just don't think you can debut them in the last match at Mania.  The average fan doesn't know who the Bullet Club is.  I could see them doing something in the Battle Royal and building from that.  But I think Shane gets help from a big gun- Rock, Cena, Rollins, HBK, etc.
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Yeah, there are plenty of big name stars we haven't seen in a while that would have a much bigger impact.  You know they've got some surprises in store.  :popcorn:

 
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