LittlePhatty
Footballguy
They need get another decent WR on the team.
You know they are desperate when you see 5'9"/245lb Tolbert lined up wide left.
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QB Cam Newton, CAR (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter rickyg
- Start date
You know they are desperate when you see 5'9"/245lb Tolbert lined up wide left.
The Commish
Footballguy
I think the WRs have progressed to "mediocre" from crap. Still way too many drops. There were 3-4 right on the numbers last night that were dropped. If Cam were any better a QB they'd have caught those balls.
NCCommish
Footballguy
The interesting thing is Ginn has less drops than Smitty. That one hurt a bit because it looked like a deep strike touchdown.
The Commish
Footballguy
I know he's worn his helmet like that since college, but I've always wondered how the hell Smitty can see through his face mask. It's almost like his head is too big to fit in the helmet
NCCommish
Footballguy
I know he's worn his helmet like that since college, but I've always wondered how the hell Smitty can see through his face mask. It's almost like his head is too big to fit in the helmet
Concept Coop
Footballguy
This has been a fun few weeks, as a fan of the kid. I was starting to worry early in the season, but he's answered a lot of questions. He'll have to more to answer when the going gets tougher, but, again, it's been fun.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Same argument used against Michael Vick in Atlanta. People were also blaming his left-handed spiral.Over the second half of last year and this year, it's also clear that he gets the fact that he doesn't have to win the game on every play. Doing a much better job checking down and taking underneath. If I'm not mistaken it was this thread where it was suggested that he doesn't make players around him better because he throws the ball too hard or something crazy like that. I'm waiting for the comment that Manning/Brady suck because they aren't getting 75 a game with their legs.Yes. They finally are using him correctly. The beginning of the season was ugly because they took away his ability to strike fear in defenses with his legs. That can really open up the passing game and it has for them.Cam discussion has become laughable at this point....let's go back to the coaching staff. I'm not sure I've seen a staff grow as quickly and obviously as this one has. They are doing a good job in their calling now and it's made all the difference. It's amazing what one can accomplish when they use their tools the right way. Hopefully, they keep it up. There's a direct correlation between their approach and this team's success.I think that most of us fans are considering a staff change as a given. I've been shocked before, but this would be high on the list of shockers if Rivera and his staff hang around.He never went anywhereThe offensive play calling's been terrible all year. Only dopes read into him putting a towel on his head etc. As was said in the other thread, he'll be fine. ETA: And the play calling was affecting the running game as well. If this staff is kept, there are going to be a lot of upset fans. The only one worth keeping is the DC and even then arguments can be made against that.
Last night should be the norm for him
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I still take Cam, but I have been very high on Cam at every stage, as a fantasy player. Luck is safer and likely has a higher market value right now. But Cam has already shown that he has elite fantasy upside, something we can only project in the future for Luck. I feel like Luck can (and is) be one of the best real life QBs in the NFL, and never match what Cam did as a rookie, fantasy wise.
Woogie Lee
Footballguy
don't forget about LaFell's drops as well. He dropped a 20 yard strike that him between the 1's right around the 15 yard line. One of the worst drops I've ever seen.
The Commish
Footballguy
Same argument used against Michael Vick in Atlanta. People were also blaming his left-handed spiral.Over the second half of last year and this year, it's also clear that he gets the fact that he doesn't have to win the game on every play. Doing a much better job checking down and taking underneath. If I'm not mistaken it was this thread where it was suggested that he doesn't make players around him better because he throws the ball too hard or something crazy like that. I'm waiting for the comment that Manning/Brady suck because they aren't getting 75 a game with their legs.Yes. They finally are using him correctly. The beginning of the season was ugly because they took away his ability to strike fear in defenses with his legs. That can really open up the passing game and it has for them.Cam discussion has become laughable at this point....let's go back to the coaching staff. I'm not sure I've seen a staff grow as quickly and obviously as this one has. They are doing a good job in their calling now and it's made all the difference. It's amazing what one can accomplish when they use their tools the right way. Hopefully, they keep it up. There's a direct correlation between their approach and this team's success.I think that most of us fans are considering a staff change as a given. I've been shocked before, but this would be high on the list of shockers if Rivera and his staff hang around.He never went anywhere
Last night should be the norm for him
I don't doubt it. Weird thing to me was no one complained about Favre breaking WR fingers.
The Commish
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
Luck is really good there is no doubt. I think he had more time under center in college than Cam and it definitely showed. He was more mature than Cam when he came out. I think Cam is catching up on that score and I think Cam is physically just a marvel. That is really hard question as I think they are pretty equal in the long run.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Fantasy - Newton
real life - Luck
real life - Luck
MAC_32
Footballguy
Luck is my QB in every league but one, couldn't get him in the rook draft in that one - I was able to trade up for RG3 though.Luck is really good there is no doubt. I think he had more time under center in college than Cam and it definitely showed. He was more mature than Cam when he came out. I think Cam is catching up on that score and I think Cam is physically just a marvel. That is really hard question as I think they are pretty equal in the long run.
I'm the minority, but I think his fantasy ceiling is higher than anyone's.
pantherclub
Footballguy
For the love of God please keep us postedLuck is my QB in every league but one, couldn't get him in the rook draft in that one - I was able to trade up for RG3 though.Luck is really good there is no doubt. I think he had more time under center in college than Cam and it definitely showed. He was more mature than Cam when he came out. I think Cam is catching up on that score and I think Cam is physically just a marvel. That is really hard question as I think they are pretty equal in the long run.
I'm the minority, but I think his fantasy ceiling is higher than anyone's.
MAC_32
Footballguy
For the love of God please keep us postedLuck is my QB in every league but one, couldn't get him in the rook draft in that one - I was able to trade up for RG3 though.Luck is really good there is no doubt. I think he had more time under center in college than Cam and it definitely showed. He was more mature than Cam when he came out. I think Cam is catching up on that score and I think Cam is physically just a marvel. That is really hard question as I think they are pretty equal in the long run.
I'm the minority, but I think his fantasy ceiling is higher than anyone's.
NCCommish
Footballguy
I wouldn't agree with that last sentence but hard to go wrong with him on your team. RG3 I think I would skip. I see too much Vick in him. By that I mean a smaller guy who is going to get hurt because he can't absorb the kinds of hits linebackers lay on running QBs. This is one of Cams advantages. He is as big as the guys hitting him and can take a bit more of it. I wish he would learn to slide feet first though.Luck is my QB in every league but one, couldn't get him in the rook draft in that one - I was able to trade up for RG3 though.Luck is really good there is no doubt. I think he had more time under center in college than Cam and it definitely showed. He was more mature than Cam when he came out. I think Cam is catching up on that score and I think Cam is physically just a marvel. That is really hard question as I think they are pretty equal in the long run.
I'm the minority, but I think his fantasy ceiling is higher than anyone's.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Luck's athletic traits are very similar to Cam, he is every bit as capable of piling up those rushing totals as Cam. He just doesn't rely on them as much because he is a better passing QB.I wouldn't agree with that last sentence but hard to go wrong with him on your team. RG3 I think I would skip. I see too much Vick in him. By that I mean a smaller guy who is going to get hurt because he can't absorb the kinds of hits linebackers lay on running QBs. This is one of Cams advantages. He is as big as the guys hitting him and can take a bit more of it. I wish he would learn to slide feet first though.Luck is my QB in every league but one, couldn't get him in the rook draft in that one - I was able to trade up for RG3 though.Luck is really good there is no doubt. I think he had more time under center in college than Cam and it definitely showed. He was more mature than Cam when he came out. I think Cam is catching up on that score and I think Cam is physically just a marvel. That is really hard question as I think they are pretty equal in the long run.
I'm the minority, but I think his fantasy ceiling is higher than anyone's.
RG3's ahead of Vick in several areas, but unfortunately they share one trait - protecting himself outside of the pocket. It was back again last week. Old habits die hard. I've been trying to flip him to the Wilson owner, but to no avail. I think Wilson's being slept on the most among this group because his run game and defense are so strong he doesn't have to dot the boxscore every week to win. He showed last year he's capable of being an elite QB though.
Woogie Lee
Footballguy
Does he rely on them or just take advantage of the situation?Luck's athletic traits are very similar to Cam, he is every bit as capable of piling up those rushing totals as Cam. He just doesn't rely on them as much because he is a better passing QB.I wouldn't agree with that last sentence but hard to go wrong with him on your team. RG3 I think I would skip. I see too much Vick in him. By that I mean a smaller guy who is going to get hurt because he can't absorb the kinds of hits linebackers lay on running QBs. This is one of Cams advantages. He is as big as the guys hitting him and can take a bit more of it. I wish he would learn to slide feet first though.Luck is my QB in every league but one, couldn't get him in the rook draft in that one - I was able to trade up for RG3 though.Luck is really good there is no doubt. I think he had more time under center in college than Cam and it definitely showed. He was more mature than Cam when he came out. I think Cam is catching up on that score and I think Cam is physically just a marvel. That is really hard question as I think they are pretty equal in the long run.
I'm the minority, but I think his fantasy ceiling is higher than anyone's.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Does he rely on them or just take advantage of the situation?Luck's athletic traits are very similar to Cam, he is every bit as capable of piling up those rushing totals as Cam. He just doesn't rely on them as much because he is a better passing QB.I wouldn't agree with that last sentence but hard to go wrong with him on your team. RG3 I think I would skip. I see too much Vick in him. By that I mean a smaller guy who is going to get hurt because he can't absorb the kinds of hits linebackers lay on running QBs. This is one of Cams advantages. He is as big as the guys hitting him and can take a bit more of it. I wish he would learn to slide feet first though.Luck is my QB in every league but one, couldn't get him in the rook draft in that one - I was able to trade up for RG3 though.Luck is really good there is no doubt. I think he had more time under center in college than Cam and it definitely showed. He was more mature than Cam when he came out. I think Cam is catching up on that score and I think Cam is physically just a marvel. That is really hard question as I think they are pretty equal in the long run.
I'm the minority, but I think his fantasy ceiling is higher than anyone's.
The Commish
Footballguy
Funny....I was thinking the same thing about your post he replied to. I don't think Luck would be as successful in Carolina and Cam and I don't think Cam would be as successful in Indy as Luck. There's a reason the offenses are run the way they are for each.Does he rely on them or just take advantage of the situation?Luck's athletic traits are very similar to Cam, he is every bit as capable of piling up those rushing totals as Cam. He just doesn't rely on them as much because he is a better passing QB.I wouldn't agree with that last sentence but hard to go wrong with him on your team. RG3 I think I would skip. I see too much Vick in him. By that I mean a smaller guy who is going to get hurt because he can't absorb the kinds of hits linebackers lay on running QBs. This is one of Cams advantages. He is as big as the guys hitting him and can take a bit more of it. I wish he would learn to slide feet first though.Luck is my QB in every league but one, couldn't get him in the rook draft in that one - I was able to trade up for RG3 though.Luck is really good there is no doubt. I think he had more time under center in college than Cam and it definitely showed. He was more mature than Cam when he came out. I think Cam is catching up on that score and I think Cam is physically just a marvel. That is really hard question as I think they are pretty equal in the long run.
I'm the minority, but I think his fantasy ceiling is higher than anyone's.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Luck would be successful anywhere.Funny....I was thinking the same thing about your post he replied to. I don't think Luck would be as successful in Carolina and Cam and I don't think Cam would be as successful in Indy as Luck. There's a reason the offenses are run the way they are for each.Does he rely on them or just take advantage of the situation?Luck's athletic traits are very similar to Cam, he is every bit as capable of piling up those rushing totals as Cam. He just doesn't rely on them as much because he is a better passing QB.I wouldn't agree with that last sentence but hard to go wrong with him on your team. RG3 I think I would skip. I see too much Vick in him. By that I mean a smaller guy who is going to get hurt because he can't absorb the kinds of hits linebackers lay on running QBs. This is one of Cams advantages. He is as big as the guys hitting him and can take a bit more of it. I wish he would learn to slide feet first though.Luck is my QB in every league but one, couldn't get him in the rook draft in that one - I was able to trade up for RG3 though.Luck is really good there is no doubt. I think he had more time under center in college than Cam and it definitely showed. He was more mature than Cam when he came out. I think Cam is catching up on that score and I think Cam is physically just a marvel. That is really hard question as I think they are pretty equal in the long run.
I'm the minority, but I think his fantasy ceiling is higher than anyone's.
NCCommish
Footballguy
This I do agree with.Luck would be successful anywhere.Funny....I was thinking the same thing about your post he replied to. I don't think Luck would be as successful in Carolina and Cam and I don't think Cam would be as successful in Indy as Luck. There's a reason the offenses are run the way they are for each.Does he rely on them or just take advantage of the situation?Luck's athletic traits are very similar to Cam, he is every bit as capable of piling up those rushing totals as Cam. He just doesn't rely on them as much because he is a better passing QB.I wouldn't agree with that last sentence but hard to go wrong with him on your team. RG3 I think I would skip. I see too much Vick in him. By that I mean a smaller guy who is going to get hurt because he can't absorb the kinds of hits linebackers lay on running QBs. This is one of Cams advantages. He is as big as the guys hitting him and can take a bit more of it. I wish he would learn to slide feet first though.Luck is my QB in every league but one, couldn't get him in the rook draft in that one - I was able to trade up for RG3 though.Luck is really good there is no doubt. I think he had more time under center in college than Cam and it definitely showed. He was more mature than Cam when he came out. I think Cam is catching up on that score and I think Cam is physically just a marvel. That is really hard question as I think they are pretty equal in the long run.
I'm the minority, but I think his fantasy ceiling is higher than anyone's.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Concept Coop
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
I didn't say he wouldn't be successful...I said he wouldn't be as successful.Luck would be successful anywhere.Funny....I was thinking the same thing about your post he replied to. I don't think Luck would be as successful in Carolina and Cam and I don't think Cam would be as successful in Indy as Luck. There's a reason the offenses are run the way they are for each.Does he rely on them or just take advantage of the situation?Luck's athletic traits are very similar to Cam, he is every bit as capable of piling up those rushing totals as Cam. He just doesn't rely on them as much because he is a better passing QB.I wouldn't agree with that last sentence but hard to go wrong with him on your team. RG3 I think I would skip. I see too much Vick in him. By that I mean a smaller guy who is going to get hurt because he can't absorb the kinds of hits linebackers lay on running QBs. This is one of Cams advantages. He is as big as the guys hitting him and can take a bit more of it. I wish he would learn to slide feet first though.Luck is my QB in every league but one, couldn't get him in the rook draft in that one - I was able to trade up for RG3 though.Luck is really good there is no doubt. I think he had more time under center in college than Cam and it definitely showed. He was more mature than Cam when he came out. I think Cam is catching up on that score and I think Cam is physically just a marvel. That is really hard question as I think they are pretty equal in the long run.
I'm the minority, but I think his fantasy ceiling is higher than anyone's.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Luck is sneaky fast, but he isn't the threat to run that Cam is. He has nowhere near the power, and I doubt he'd hold up as well.
MAC_32
Footballguy
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/1081/luck-runs-like-a-linebacker
If I didn't have to leave the office right now I'm sure I could find dozens more like this.
JustinHawkins
Footballguy
Yep. He's special. Came in very immature, and people must find it easy to hate on him, but the signs of maturity are there. And he's getting better. Panthers need to surround him with better WRs though. So many pitiful drops that hit LaFell and Ginn right in the hands if not numbers on their chest.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Don't bother; I can find the hyperbole myself.
SI.Com: "Cam Newton, Auburn's Mack Truck of a QB..."
Mack Trucks > Smaller trucks > Tigers > Lions > really fast scooters > German Shepherds > linebackers: Proof
I don't really want to make this into a Cam vs. Luck thread, since I love both, but here are their combine numbers.
40 yard dash: 4.59 seconds vs 4.67
Vertical jump: 35 inches vs 36
Broad jump: 126 inches vs 124
3 cone drill: 6.92 seconds vs 6.80
20 yard shuttle: 4.18 seconds vs 4.28
The first column is Cam, the second is Luck. Overall, they are very similar as athletes. Obviously, Cam has run it much more so far in their careers. But Luck is a very good runner. When he runs, he picks up first downs at a great rate. On his career, 8.88 percent of rushes have resulted in a TD. For comparison, Cam's rate is 8.25 percent. ESPN QBR's isn't a perfect stat but last year, Luck had a rush EPA of 18.3. Cam's was 20.1 (his rookie year was 19.7). Just because Luck doesn't run that much doesn't mean he's not a very good runner.
pantherclub
Footballguy
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Newton is fine as long as everything is going well. If things are not going his way get ready for the pouting to begin. 
pantherclub
Footballguy
lolololololololololNewton is fine as long as everything is going well. If things are not going his way get ready for the pouting to begin.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Do you think Luck is the running threat that Cam is? If so, that's fine, and we can agree not to. But countering my statement without taking a stance is a bit of a strawman.
Luck is a great athlete for a QB, and can run the ball. Newton is simply on another level. Those stats are pointless, IMO, when the usage is so different.
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JustinHawkins
Footballguy
Sounds like you should invest in Kleenex since your favorite team's #1 WR is HarvinImTheScientist said:Newton is fine as long as everything is going well. If things are not going his way get ready for the pouting to begin.
⚡DEADHEAD⚡
Footballguy
Both are great physical talents. Maybe Cam gets the edge but really you're talking the difference between an A and an A+. On the mental side - maturity and being a student of the game - Cam gets a C (and that's an improvement given that he was a D) and Luck gets another A.
I don't know of another quarterback that, when entering the league, I'd bet money on entering the HOF some day. Peyton may have been the last one.
I don't know of another quarterback that, when entering the league, I'd bet money on entering the HOF some day. Peyton may have been the last one.
The Commish
Footballguy
NFL Matchup will have a segment on Cam / Panthers on their show tomorrow...can't wait for this thread to be bumped after the airing 
MAC_32
Footballguy
Carolina is doomed anyway, picked them in survivor so them imploding Sunday will be my karma.NFL Matchup will have a segment on Cam / Panthers on their show tomorrow...can't wait for this thread to be bumped after the airing
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