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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (3 Viewers)

GroveDiesel said:
OC Zed said:
Shutout said:
OC Zed said:
Shutout said:
Cost was high but I like it
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I hate giving up next year's #1. That could very easily be another top 10 pick next year.

:wall:
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True but think about if this guy IS the next Julio jones type wr. This team might not be picking top ten for a while.
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Atlanta was a playoff ready team when they made that leap to get Julio Jones. You can't say that about Buffalo right now.
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Why not? The defense started the year with a million injuries last year and there were a ton of injuries to guys like Spiller, Goodwin, Stevie and Manuel. And they lost quite a few close games.

The defense should still be great despite the loss of Petine and Byrd and the offense should be much improved just because of lack of injuries and adding Watkins.

Yeah, I'm a total homer right now, but seriously, this team had a LOT of bad breaks last year.
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You're a Bills fan counting on few injuries? :unsure:

;)

Code: 
Let's hope...
 
So have we traded Stevie away for a bag of chips yet?

I don't love getting a WR in Round 1 particularly when that means Stevie gets pushed out without anything of value in return.

 
Shutout said:
humpback said:
Shutout said:
OC Zed said:
Shutout said:
Cost was high but I like it
Click to expand...
I hate giving up next year's #1. That could very easily be another top 10 pick next year.

:wall:
Click to expand...
True but think about if this guy IS the next Julio jones type wr. This team might not be picking top ten for a while.
Click to expand...
The problem is he pretty much has to be for that price, and they might be picking top 10 (or middle of the pack) even if he is.
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Gotta start somewhere guys and Watkins has been so highly regarded, why not? Who else would you pick and say "this is the turning point".
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It's not the player, it's the price. That's a ton to give up for a team that isn't exactly 1 player away from a championship.

 
Bills are trying to make the playoffs. I don't mind them taking an aggressive approach for a change. Hopefully it pays off and helps Manuel become the long-term answer they really need him to be.

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Bills are trying to make the playoffs. I don't mind them taking an aggressive approach for a change. Hopefully it pays off and helps Manuel become the long-term answer they really need him to be.
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If they are serious about the playoffs, keep Stevie on the roster and go 3-wide with Watkins, Woods and Stevie in the slot with CJ in the backfield. Put all of your best chips on the table.

 
Hopefully Buffalo can grab one of the 3 OTs left that I think can be an instant starter at RT in the 2nd round tomorrow. If not, I hope they go OG or TE.

 
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000348499/article/bills-gm-doug-whaley-weve-got-to-win-now?campaign=Twitter_atl

Bills GM Doug Whaley: 'We've got to win now'

While the crowd at Radio City Music Hall was hooting with surprise over Blake Bortles going to theJacksonville Jaguars with the third overall pick, Buffalo Bills general manager Doug Whaley was putting the finishing touches on the gutsiest move of the first round.

The Bills coveted Clemson wide receiver Sammy Watkins. Whaley offered the Cleveland Browns an offer they couldn't refuse: The No. 9 overall pick plus a first- and fourth-round picks in 2015 for the right to move up five spots.

The Bills got their man, giving the team a truly elite wide receiver ... if Watkins pans out. It's a high risk/high reward move Whaley felt the organization needed to make.

"We've got to win," Whaley told Peter King of TheMMQB.com. "We've got to win now. Fourteen years of not making the playoffs. Fourteen years. The people here deserve so much more. We need to give them more. We need to give them a winning team. We need to do it for the people of this region, and we need to do it for Mr. Wilson.

"I understand how big the deal is. I'm a competitor. I like our odds. I like our chances. The information we had made the decision for us. The player made the decision. I think I made the best decision for the Buffalo Bills. I can live with that, however it turns out."

The logic is both admirable and understandable -- and Whaley clearly is aware of the stakes. TheBills have been trapped in a funk for too long. Whaley is betting on Watkins being the type of star who can change everything.
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OC Zed said:
So have we traded Stevie away for a bag of chips yet?

I don't love getting a WR in Round 1 particularly when that means Stevie gets pushed out without anything of value in return.
Click to expand...
What I don't understand - unless he's some kind of malcontent - why do they need to move Johnson? Wouldn't a Watkins, Woods and Johnson in the slot trio be better than a Watkins, Williams and Woods in the slot trio? With Goodwin rotating in as a deep threat.

As a Jets' fan, I hope they trade away Johnson cheaply - but it would be a bad football move imo.

 
I'd rather see us keep Johnson and just switch over to some kind of spread offense. If you're going to invest this many picks in the WR position, you might as well build your offense accordingly.

Then again, letting good players walk out the door or trading them away for a sandwich is kind of the Bills' shtick, so they'll probably do that here.

 
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Bills got the biggest playmaker from this draft and didn't have to give-up any picks this year.

The cost isn't known now but I don't think Buffalo gave up a top-ten pick in 2015. Probably mid-teens to twenties and I love Watkins.

No doubt in my mind that Buffalo has improved themselves moreso than anyone else in the AFCE because Sammy is going to start from day-one and make an immediate impact and you haven't given up any picks and still have two more days of picks to add to the roster.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
OC Zed said:
So have we traded Stevie away for a bag of chips yet?

I don't love getting a WR in Round 1 particularly when that means Stevie gets pushed out without anything of value in return.
Click to expand...
What I don't understand - unless he's some kind of malcontent - why do they need to move Johnson? Wouldn't a Watkins, Woods and Johnson in the slot trio be better than a Watkins, Williams and Woods in the slot trio? With Goodwin rotating in as a deep threat.

As a Jets' fan, I hope they trade away Johnson cheaply - but it would be a bad football move imo.
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I think it's a combination of Stevie being a bit of a screwball and his ballooning cap number in 2015 (not 2014). But, ya, they're not going to get what he's actually worth for him in a trade.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I'd rather see us keep Johnson and just switch over to some kind of spread offense. If you're going to invest this many picks in the WR position, you might as well build your offense accordingly.

Then again, letting good players walk out the door or trading them away for a sandwich is kind of the Bills' shtick, so they'll probably do that here.
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I bet they trade Stevie to Seattle for a fifth round pick and he goes on to put up 1,000 yards & 7 TDs in each of the next couple seasons.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Bills got the biggest playmaker from this draft and didn't have to give-up any picks this year.

The cost isn't known now but I don't think Buffalo gave up a top-ten pick in 2015. Probably mid-teens to twenties and I love Watkins.

No doubt in my mind that Buffalo has improved themselves moreso than anyone else in the AFCE because Sammy is going to start from day-one and make an immediate impact and you haven't given up any picks and still have two more days of picks to add to the roster.
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It's been ages since the Bills have finished in the mid-teens, never mind twenties. Sure, maybe this is the year, but fans have been saying that for as long as I can remember. If they dump Stevie, I don't think Watkins is going to be much of an upgrade to the W/L (next season).

 
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OC Zed said:
Dr. Octopus said:
OC Zed said:
So have we traded Stevie away for a bag of chips yet?

I don't love getting a WR in Round 1 particularly when that means Stevie gets pushed out without anything of value in return.
Click to expand...
What I don't understand - unless he's some kind of malcontent - why do they need to move Johnson? Wouldn't a Watkins, Woods and Johnson in the slot trio be better than a Watkins, Williams and Woods in the slot trio? With Goodwin rotating in as a deep threat.

As a Jets' fan, I hope they trade away Johnson cheaply - but it would be a bad football move imo.
Click to expand...
I think it's a combination of Stevie being a bit of a screwball and his ballooning cap number in 2015 (not 2014). But, ya, they're not going to get what he's actually worth for him in a trade.
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$8M this year aand rises next year.

Stevie is a good #2 WR and I do think he's worth more than what Buffalo is likely to get in a trade. But let's be honest, he has been hurt a ton over the last 3 years and has single-handedly cost them quite a few games with huge drops or penalties in key situations. So many horrible drops that would have either sealed the game or given them the lead/win.

I've enjoyed the Stevie era. He's been amusing for the most part and has been a bright spot for a while over a dark period in Bills history. I'm just not sure he is worth it anymore.

That being said, it would not surprise me at all if Buffalo goes to battle with him this year anyway and moves either him, Williams or both after this year. Watkins, Johnson and Woods starting with Williams or Goodwin coming in for certain packages looks mighty tasty. Just not sure this staff likes Stevie a lot.

 
Rotoworld:

WGR 550 Buffalo expects the Bills to "do what they can" to try and trade Stevie Johnson.
Following the pick of Sammy Watkins at No. 4 overall last night, the Bills now have a glut of receivers. Johnson is due a $3.65 million salary and had a bit of a rocky relationship with the new coaching staff last season. With Watkins in the fold, we'd expect he and Mike Williams to handle outside duties with Robert Woods working mostly in the slot. Marquise Goodwin will be the situational deep threat. The Bills are likely looking for a mid- to late-round pick for Johnson.

Source: WGR 550 Buffalo
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not sure why Jacksonville didn't take the deal to move down to #9 with the Bills. Could have gotten Bortles there and a future 1st. Team needs those extra picks.

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Bills rated Watkins as the #1 overall player in this draft. Ahead of Clowney.

So, is giving up #9 and next year's 1st a bad move to get the #1 overall player (on your board)? Seems more reasonable. Hope they are right on him.

good stuff in here:

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/05/09/inside-draft-room-buffalo-made-trade-land-sammy-watkins/
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Schefter tweeted earlier today that a handful of teams also had Watkins as the #1 player overall.

Whaley and the Bills had better be right. If they are and Watkins is a game changer like Green, Julio, Gordon, Calvin and Dez, then the trade is worth it. But if they're wrong, it's a huge bust of a pick. Definitely a high risk move. Trading away picks increases risk because it concentrates the risk over a smaller number of gambles. But sometimes it's worth gambling if the upside on a specific player is high enough.

The Browns made a somewhat similar trade a few years ago with the Falcons and Atlanta picked Julio Jones. Does anyone think Atlanta regrets that trade?

 
GroveDiesel said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Bills rated Watkins as the #1 overall player in this draft. Ahead of Clowney.

So, is giving up #9 and next year's 1st a bad move to get the #1 overall player (on your board)? Seems more reasonable. Hope they are right on him.

good stuff in here:

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/05/09/inside-draft-room-buffalo-made-trade-land-sammy-watkins/
Click to expand...
Schefter tweeted earlier today that a handful of teams also had Watkins as the #1 player overall.

Whaley and the Bills had better be right. If they are and Watkins is a game changer like Green, Julio, Gordon, Calvin and Dez, then the trade is worth it. But if they're wrong, it's a huge bust of a pick. Definitely a high risk move. Trading away picks increases risk because it concentrates the risk over a smaller number of gambles. But sometimes it's worth gambling if the upside on a specific player is high enough.

The Browns made a somewhat similar trade a few years ago with the Falcons and Atlanta picked Julio Jones. Does anyone think Atlanta regrets that trade?
Click to expand...
Atlanta is a little frayed around the edges on the OL and D side of the ball in a couple of spots - those extra picks could have filled some of these issues. I don't think they have real regrets and have moved on to what it is.

 
GroveDiesel said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Bills rated Watkins as the #1 overall player in this draft. Ahead of Clowney.

So, is giving up #9 and next year's 1st a bad move to get the #1 overall player (on your board)? Seems more reasonable. Hope they are right on him.

good stuff in here:

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/05/09/inside-draft-room-buffalo-made-trade-land-sammy-watkins/
Click to expand...
Schefter tweeted earlier today that a handful of teams also had Watkins as the #1 player overall.

Whaley and the Bills had better be right. If they are and Watkins is a game changer like Green, Julio, Gordon, Calvin and Dez, then the trade is worth it. But if they're wrong, it's a huge bust of a pick. Definitely a high risk move. Trading away picks increases risk because it concentrates the risk over a smaller number of gambles. But sometimes it's worth gambling if the upside on a specific player is high enough.

The Browns made a somewhat similar trade a few years ago with the Falcons and Atlanta picked Julio Jones. Does anyone think Atlanta regrets that trade?
Click to expand...
The situations are very different though.

 
humpback said:
Shutout said:
humpback said:
Shutout said:
OC Zed said:
Shutout said:
Cost was high but I like it
Click to expand...
I hate giving up next year's #1. That could very easily be another top 10 pick next year.

:wall:
Click to expand...
True but think about if this guy IS the next Julio jones type wr. This team might not be picking top ten for a while.
Click to expand...
The problem is he pretty much has to be for that price, and they might be picking top 10 (or middle of the pack) even if he is.
Click to expand...
Gotta start somewhere guys and Watkins has been so highly regarded, why not? Who else would you pick and say "this is the turning point".
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It's not the player, it's the price. That's a ton to give up for a team that isn't exactly 1 player away from a championship.
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Yeah, like I said, like it but it was a high price. I get that. But any team in the position of picking where they have been isn't 1 player away. I guess I just don't mind them trying, given where they have been for so long.

 
humpback said:
Bracie Smathers said:
Bills got the biggest playmaker from this draft and didn't have to give-up any picks this year.

The cost isn't known now but I don't think Buffalo gave up a top-ten pick in 2015. Probably mid-teens to twenties and I love Watkins.

No doubt in my mind that Buffalo has improved themselves moreso than anyone else in the AFCE because Sammy is going to start from day-one and make an immediate impact and you haven't given up any picks and still have two more days of picks to add to the roster.
Click to expand...
It's been ages since the Bills have finished in the mid-teens, never mind twenties. Sure, maybe this is the year, but fans have been saying that for as long as I can remember. If they dump Stevie, I don't think Watkins is going to be much of an upgrade to the W/L (next season).
Click to expand...
Not saying the Bills are playoff-bound next year, but they finished 6-10 last year with UDFAs starting a bunch of games at QB and their best offensive weapon gimpy all season. It's not unreasonable to think that they can improve their record by at least a couple of games.

 
I get why people think the Bills are so far away from competing. And maybe they are. If they are, I think it would simply be because it's a QB driven league and Manuel ends up a bust.

But there are serious reasons why they could be a better team than people think. There defense has a ton of talent and, at least at this point, they're all healthy. They played over the first quarter of the season last year with their #1-3 CBs missing. They had to move Aaron Williams from Safety back to CB it was so bad which made things even worse because Byrd missed so much time. Even when Gilmore got back he was pretty useless all year without the full use of his hand. With Gilmore and McKelvin at 100% and a very good Robey as the nickel CB, that's a HUGE defensive improvement. Byrd is a big loss, but Aaron Williams can output 85% of that production and they have enough options that SS should see an upgrade as well. And Brandon Spikes will make a huge difference in the run D.

On offense, Spiller's lingering leg injuries really derailed the whole offense. It was obvious he had no burst all year. Couldn't get outside and couldn't hit the hole inside fast enough to get to the second level. His health should immediately improve the offense.

The Bills lost several close games last year where their injuries absolutely cost them a game. The secondary problems cost them wins against New England, the Jets and Cleveland at the very least.

I think there's at least some reason to believe that the Bills weren't as bad as their record last year

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
not sure why Jacksonville didn't take the deal to move down to #9 with the Bills. Could have gotten Bortles there and a future 1st. Team needs those extra picks.
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This time last year, fans of a certain team were arguing that if you think a particular guy is a franchise QB, you just draft him and don't worry about trying to get cute and maximize value. I forget which team that was, but I definitely remember hearing that argument.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
not sure why Jacksonville didn't take the deal to move down to #9 with the Bills. Could have gotten Bortles there and a future 1st. Team needs those extra picks.
Click to expand...
This time last year, fans of a certain team were arguing that if you think a particular guy is a franchise QB, you just draft him and don't worry about trying to get cute and maximize value. I forget which team that was, but I definitely remember hearing that argument.
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Didn't that same team trade back like 10 picks and then take a QB? ;)
 
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IvanKaramazov said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
not sure why Jacksonville didn't take the deal to move down to #9 with the Bills. Could have gotten Bortles there and a future 1st. Team needs those extra picks.
Click to expand...
This time last year, fans of a certain team were arguing that if you think a particular guy is a franchise QB, you just draft him and don't worry about trying to get cute and maximize value. I forget which team that was, but I definitely remember hearing that argument.
Click to expand...
I think that team was able to pick up their best LB by trading back, and they still got the QB they liked.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
humpback said:
Bracie Smathers said:
Bills got the biggest playmaker from this draft and didn't have to give-up any picks this year.

The cost isn't known now but I don't think Buffalo gave up a top-ten pick in 2015. Probably mid-teens to twenties and I love Watkins.

No doubt in my mind that Buffalo has improved themselves moreso than anyone else in the AFCE because Sammy is going to start from day-one and make an immediate impact and you haven't given up any picks and still have two more days of picks to add to the roster.
Click to expand...
It's been ages since the Bills have finished in the mid-teens, never mind twenties. Sure, maybe this is the year, but fans have been saying that for as long as I can remember. If they dump Stevie, I don't think Watkins is going to be much of an upgrade to the W/L (next season).
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Not saying the Bills are playoff-bound next year, but they finished 6-10 last year with UDFAs starting a bunch of games at QB and their best offensive weapon gimpy all season. It's not unreasonable to think that they can improve their record by at least a couple of games.
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You could have cut-and-pasted this post every year over the last decade. ;)

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's also not unreasonable to think that they won't improve much. One of those UDFA's at QB played just as well if not better than their 1st round pick, other teams in the division had injuries as well, and they lost a stud safety. Watkins is nice, but the other teams in their division also made improvements in the offseason.

Put it this way- I'd bet on the Bills finishing in the top half of the draft again next year, and I'm guessing Vegas will agree. Doesn't mean it's a guarantee obviously, but I think the pick is much more likely to end up in the top half than the bottom. I think it's highly unlikely to be in the 20's.

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
not sure why Jacksonville didn't take the deal to move down to #9 with the Bills. Could have gotten Bortles there and a future 1st. Team needs those extra picks.
Click to expand...
This time last year, fans of a certain team were arguing that if you think a particular guy is a franchise QB, you just draft him and don't worry about trying to get cute and maximize value. I forget which team that was, but I definitely remember hearing that argument.
Click to expand...
I think that team was able to pick up their best LB by trading back, and they still got the QB they liked.
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:bag:

 
The more I think about it the more I like it. I thought "why waste a first and a fourth next year when there will be talent on the board at 9 and the Bills have a decent receiving core now?" But then I actually started thinking about the Bills WRs.

Stevie is a 80/1000/8 guy when healthy but he's not 100% healthy very often.

Mike Williams, more of a jump ball WR who spent most of last year on IR and has tons of off field/character concerns.

Robert Woods, I think it's too early to tell.

Goodwin is development/project player.

It's not Carolina's WR situation but there's a lots of question marks and I don't think any of these guys are true number ones.

 
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