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QB Tom Brady, TB (4 Viewers)

Sabertooth said:
Phenix said:
Sabertooth said:
dickey moe said:
Sabertooth said:
You don't keep the best player in the NFL on the bench. Period.
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Yes, Adrian Peterson will get plenty of playing time this season.
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Not even the best player in his own division.
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You are right, he is the best player in the NFL.
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He's the best at his position but it is so devalued it doesn't matter. I'd say if given a choice of players in the NFC North, Peterson would be the third one picked. Maybe fourth.
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In your opinion.

Calvin and Rodgers can be debated, but ADP still has more value. There are a lot of active QBs better than ARod, no RB is better than ADP.

Calvin is the best WR, true, but still in doing that his team misses the playoffs except for the fluke a few years ago, ADP carries a team on his surgically repaired knee.

However, I'm starting to think the way Brady continuously leads teams with lower talent levels up and down the field is uncanny. He may be the best player in the league, that could be up for debate. His value to one team however is not up for debate.

 
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There are a lot of active QBs better than ARod
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This is the only comment from you that I need to read, to realize you clearly have no clue. If you said a couple or maybe even a few, I can understand that, I am sure some think Brady is the best QB or Manning or Brees, but to say there are "a lot" of active QB's better than Rodgers is just fishing for arguments or possibly you just hate GB.

 
The Claymaker said:
There are a lot of active QBs better than ARod
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This is the only comment from you that I need to read, to realize you clearly have no clue. If you said a couple or maybe even a few, I can understand that, I am sure some think Brady is the best QB or Manning or Brees, but to say there are "a lot" of active QB's better than Rodgers is just fishing for arguments or possibly you just hate GB.
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Really dude? Ok, I'll bite even though I'm a huge Rodgers fan.

Ummm, when you (not you in general since you take specific words so literal) are trying to say someone is the best player, and even three can be debated, uh yeah... Thats a lot.

Brady Brees Manning to say the least, in my opinion. While I don't necessarily agree, others may like Ryan RG3 and Luck as they can really be debated as to who is more talented and better at the position.

 
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Its getting harder and harder to argue against the fact that Brady is the best player to ever play the game. Montana has the rings argument, that's about it. There are some stat compilers with better career totals like favre, marino and manning, but brady holds the td record, the int record, and passed marinos yardage record (but did it the same year brees set it). He has led the league in tds with david patten, deion branch and troy brown, taken a team to a fourth quarter lead in an afc championship game with reche caldwell and a bunch of crap, set league records with welker and moss, but also helper welker, gronk and moss set nfl records of their own. If he is able to perform at a high level again this year with this massive turnover and everything going wrong this offseason, then he will just add to the legend. Its incredible to watch.

 
bostonfred said:
Its getting harder and harder to argue against the fact that Brady is the best player to ever play the game. Montana has the rings argument, that's about it. There are some stat compilers with better career totals like favre, marino and manning, but brady holds the td record, the int record, and passed marinos yardage record (but did it the same year brees set it). He has led the league in tds with david patten, deion branch and troy brown, taken a team to a fourth quarter lead in an afc championship game with reche caldwell and a bunch of crap, set league records with welker and moss, but also helper welker, gronk and moss set nfl records of their own. If he is able to perform at a high level again this year with this massive turnover and everything going wrong this offseason, then he will just add to the legend. Its incredible to watch.
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I think he may be one of the best ever, I couldn't make an argument against it.

While I also couldn't make an argument against Manning, Elway, Montana, Brees, Unitas and so on. Even Marino, and he never won a SB, but how can you say he wasn't great? Championships do not make a great players, they make great teams.

Greatness is something many can reach, not something only one can become.

 
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Phenix said:
The Claymaker said:
There are a lot of active QBs better than ARod
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This is the only comment from you that I need to read, to realize you clearly have no clue. If you said a couple or maybe even a few, I can understand that, I am sure some think Brady is the best QB or Manning or Brees, but to say there are "a lot" of active QB's better than Rodgers is just fishing for arguments or possibly you just hate GB.
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Really dude? Ok, I'll bite.

Ummm, when you (not you in general since you take specific words so literal) are trying to say someone is the best player, and even three can be debated, uh yeah... Thats a lot.

Brady Brees Manning to say the least, others like Ryan RG3 and Luck can be debated as to who is more talented and better at the position.
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Really dude? Your grasp of English is that weak?

two = couple

three =few

See how it works? Really dude it's not that complicated. Your talking about 32 players, a lot of 32 could be any number to different people. If you had 32 dollars and someone said, give me "a lot" of your money, would you think they meant 2 or 3? If so, your probably the only one that thinks that is a lot of 32.

 
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The Claymaker said:
Phenix said:
The Claymaker said:
There are a lot of active QBs better than ARod
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This is the only comment from you that I need to read, to realize you clearly have no clue. If you said a couple or maybe even a few, I can understand that, I am sure some think Brady is the best QB or Manning or Brees, but to say there are "a lot" of active QB's better than Rodgers is just fishing for arguments or possibly you just hate GB.
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Really dude? Ok, I'll bite.

Ummm, when you (not you in general since you take specific words so literal) are trying to say someone is the best player, and even three can be debated, uh yeah... Thats a lot.

Brady Brees Manning to say the least, others like Ryan RG3 and Luck can be debated as to who is more talented and better at the position.
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Really dude? Your grasp of English is that weak?

two = couple

three =few

See how it works? Really dude it's not that complicated. Your talking about 32 players, a lot of 32 could be any number to different people. If you had 32 dollars and someone said, give me "a lot" of your money, would you think they meant 2 or 3? If so, your probably the only one that thinks that is a lot of 32.
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1. It depends, how much of that 32 dollars is disposable? Two can be a lot if I have to get gas.

2. Three is a lot to debate when we are talking the best player in a league of 32.

3. Get help immediately since YOUR grasp of the English language is not that great. Should be YOU'RE as in "You are talking about..."

Now go away since you try to used the language as you're argument and butcher it in the making.

 
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I do agree about Brady, he is a machine. But I think the jury is still out, Rodgers has plenty of years left, but I do think between those 4, we are seeing some of the best QB's that may ever play right now.

I am not one to include guys who played well 1 year in that conversation, some posters do, I don't. But clearly some other young guys have the makings of great careers, like an RG3, Luck, Kaep and Wilson. Ryan has been very good, and may well be on his way into that conversation as well.

 
The Claymaker said:
I do agree about Brady, he is a machine. But I think the jury is still out, Rodgers has plenty of years left, but I do think between those 4, we are seeing some of the best QB's that may ever play right now.

I am not one to include guys who played well 1 year in that conversation, some posters do, I don't. But clearly some other young guys have the makings of great careers, like an RG3, Luck, Kaep and Wilson. Ryan has been very good, and may well be on his way into that conversation as well.
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Since we are talking English language and writing...

Any number Ten and under is written out, 11 and up can be typed with numerals.

 
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The argument for Brady as a bust has nothing to do with his talent. We all know he's a great player and that part is not very debatable. The reason I wouldn't take him is because of the value (or lack thereof) at his current ADP. On fantasy football calculator, hes going as the 5th QB at 5.02. Personally, I don't have him ranked that high on my QB board, but I could certainly see the argument for it. Regardless, I do not think that the difference between Brady and RG3, Kap, and even Romo warrants the 2+ round discrepancy in ADP. So while Brady isn't a "bust" in the traditional sense (I dont think anyone expects him to just fall off a cliff), I don't see the value right now in taking him when the position is so deep.

 
The Claymaker said:
There are a lot of active QBs better than ARod
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This is the only comment from you that I need to read, to realize you clearly have no clue. If you said a couple or maybe even a few, I can understand that, I am sure some think Brady is the best QB or Manning or Brees, but to say there are "a lot" of active QB's better than Rodgers is just fishing for arguments or possibly you just hate GB.
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Still stand by this comment to some degree, even though you went back and adjusted your comments to seem more Rodgers friendly and to not claim you think "a lot" but more specifically three guys are better than Rodgers. I also see you corrected yourself on some of your incorrect corrections on me, so thank you. I will say, in my opinion, Rodgers is in the top four QB's playing today, he has as good as arm as Brady, better than Brees and Manning and can move and throw on the run better than any of them. Has the highest regular season passer rating in NFL history a full 8 points higher than #2 Steve Young and the third highest in post season history only one point off the leader which is Bart Starr. I think top 3 are Rodgers, Brady and Brees, no matter how you order them and Manning would be the number four guy at this stage in their careers.

I will apologize for misinterpreting your use of "a lot", I obviously took it too literally.

Edited to add, I usually avoid opinion spats with people because I think everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion, and to be honest if Phenix thinks Rodgers is the 10th best QB in the league, who am I to argue? Just because we disagree, doesn't make anyone else's opinion right or wrong. So that's all I am going to say on this.

 
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I think Rodgers is 1 right now, with Peyton and Brady 2a and 2b.

Rodgers took the Packers to 15-1 in 2011 with one of the worst defenses the NFL has ever seen and not much of a running game; that was just insane. And he took them to 11-5 last year without much of a defense or running game again. No one is playing the position better than him right now, although what Peyton did last year with a brand new team and all new receivers only added to his legend.

But it is funny to see some coming around now, like, "Oh, maybe Tom Brady will be good this year now." :lol: I can't believe anyone questioned it. But hey, I got him for $12 in an auction two weeks ago, so who am I to complain? :D

 
As someone who was really pessimistic about Brady's prospects this season, his play this pre-season has basically put an end to those doubts. Still, without Gronk for at least some games, I don't think he has top 5 ceiling. Fewer passing attempts, no name TEs for a few games, and growing pains with the rooks are going to cap his upside.

He's still as safe a QB as any to finish in the top 10, though. I wouldn't take him at his ADP of QB5 unless he slides to the late 6th/7th. I've completely divorced myself from the idea that "I need Brady" or "I need Kaep" etc. The only QB I have ranked in the top 12 is Brees at QB1. The order of the other 11 just doesn't matter, because I don't see enough difference between Ryan/Brady as QB5/6 or and Romo/Luck as QB11/12 to justify the ADP.

 
amicsta said:
The argument for Brady as a bust has nothing to do with his talent. We all know he's a great player and that part is not very debatable. The reason I wouldn't take him is because of the value (or lack thereof) at his current ADP. On fantasy football calculator, hes going as the 5th QB at 5.02. Personally, I don't have him ranked that high on my QB board, but I could certainly see the argument for it. Regardless, I do not think that the difference between Brady and RG3, Kap, and even Romo warrants the 2+ round discrepancy in ADP. So while Brady isn't a "bust" in the traditional sense (I dont think anyone expects him to just fall off a cliff), I don't see the value right now in taking him when the position is so deep.
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Is this a quarterback heavy league? I haven't seen him any where near the 5th round

 
Ghost Rider said:
I think Rodgers is 1 right now, with Peyton and Brady 2a and 2b.

Rodgers took the Packers to 15-1 in 2011 with one of the worst defenses the NFL has ever seen and not much of a running game; that was just insane. And he took them to 11-5 last year without much of a defense or running game again. No one is playing the position better than him right now, although what Peyton did last year with a brand new team and all new receivers only added to his legend.

But it is funny to see some coming around now, like, "Oh, maybe Tom Brady will be good this year now." :lol: I can't believe anyone questioned it. But hey, I got him for $12 in an auction two weeks ago, so who am I to complain? :D
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I think you can put anyone of those 3, plus Brees and argue they are the best. Their resumes are all long and read like Rodgers does above. In the last 2 years Brady has taken his teams to 25 victories and to the AFCC game and Super Bowl with a horrible defense as well. He has won Super Bowls with receivers like Givens, Branch, Brown, and starting backs like Smith. You can say the same thing about Peyton with the defense in Indy.

 
msudaisy26 said:
Ghost Rider said:
I think Rodgers is 1 right now, with Peyton and Brady 2a and 2b.

Rodgers took the Packers to 15-1 in 2011 with one of the worst defenses the NFL has ever seen and not much of a running game; that was just insane. And he took them to 11-5 last year without much of a defense or running game again. No one is playing the position better than him right now, although what Peyton did last year with a brand new team and all new receivers only added to his legend.

But it is funny to see some coming around now, like, "Oh, maybe Tom Brady will be good this year now." :lol: I can't believe anyone questioned it. But hey, I got him for $12 in an auction two weeks ago, so who am I to complain? :D
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I think you can put anyone of those 3, plus Brees and argue they are the best. Their resumes are all long and read like Rodgers does above. In the last 2 years Brady has taken his teams to 25 victories and to the AFCC game and Super Bowl with a horrible defense as well. He has won Super Bowls with receivers like Givens, Branch, Brown, and starting backs like Smith. You can say the same thing about Peyton with the defense in Indy.
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All true, but if we are arguing about who is better right now, then what Peyton did in Indy and Brady winning Super Bowls a decade ago with average WRs are both completely irrelevant facts. I think most would agree that both Brady and Peyton are top 5 all-time QBs, but that doesn't mean they are always the best every season that they play. Right now, Aaron Rodgers is the best, but Peyton and Brady are both still pretty great. So is Brees, but I'd place him 4th behind those three simply because he turns the ball over a bit more than those other guys do.

 
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PatsFanCT said:
ghostguy123 said:
PatsFanCT said:
ghostguy123 said:
PatsFanCT said:
I have no doubt Brady will excel with whoever he has on the field. Top 5 should be a cakewalk for him.
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This is crazy talk. "NO" doubt?? Not even a little??

I can't call it any better than 50-50, and even at those odds I would bet he finishes outside the top 5.
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What would make him any worse than he has been the last half dozen years?

Yes, I have NO doubt.
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He isn't worse, but his weapons are directly related to how good his stats can be. Gronk missing half the year hurts. Welker gone and Amendola is made of glass. Who knows on hernandez.

It has nothing to do with whether or not Brady is a worse player or not, cause he isn't. Not to mention Manning looks like he will score better. Ryan also. SOme other guys can be top 5 pretty easily like Newton, Wilson, Kaepernick.

Saying NO doubt means it's a sure thing. Sorry, it is NOT a sure thing
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A lot of assuming here.

Gronk may not even miss a game. Amendola is healthy, younger and faster than Welker. And Hernandez is more likely to be there than not. They also have a bunch of very interesting rookie WR prospects in camp to go along with Donald Jones.

Yeah, I have NO doubt Brady will be top 5.

You can have all the doubt you want, but I don't have any.
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Any doubts yet, PatsFanCT??

 
ComfortablyNumb said:
PatsFanCT said:
ghostguy123 said:
PatsFanCT said:
ghostguy123 said:
PatsFanCT said:
I have no doubt Brady will excel with whoever he has on the field. Top 5 should be a cakewalk for him.
Click to expand...
This is crazy talk. "NO" doubt?? Not even a little??

I can't call it any better than 50-50, and even at those odds I would bet he finishes outside the top 5.
Click to expand...
What would make him any worse than he has been the last half dozen years?

Yes, I have NO doubt.
Click to expand...
He isn't worse, but his weapons are directly related to how good his stats can be. Gronk missing half the year hurts. Welker gone and Amendola is made of glass. Who knows on hernandez.

It has nothing to do with whether or not Brady is a worse player or not, cause he isn't. Not to mention Manning looks like he will score better. Ryan also. SOme other guys can be top 5 pretty easily like Newton, Wilson, Kaepernick.

Saying NO doubt means it's a sure thing. Sorry, it is NOT a sure thing
Click to expand...
A lot of assuming here.

Gronk may not even miss a game. Amendola is healthy, younger and faster than Welker. And Hernandez is more likely to be there than not. They also have a bunch of very interesting rookie WR prospects in camp to go along with Donald Jones.

Yeah, I have NO doubt Brady will be top 5.

You can have all the doubt you want, but I don't have any.
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Any doubts yet, PatsFanCT??
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amendola likely to be on bench and gronk didn't make it for game 1 and Hernandez is more likely to be in the cell he is in then on the field.. The pats suck and are boring... spy gate cheater whiny bit.che#

 
ComfortablyNumb said:
PatsFanCT said:
ghostguy123 said:
PatsFanCT said:
ghostguy123 said:
PatsFanCT said:
I have no doubt Brady will excel with whoever he has on the field. Top 5 should be a cakewalk for him.
Click to expand...
This is crazy talk. "NO" doubt?? Not even a little??

I can't call it any better than 50-50, and even at those odds I would bet he finishes outside the top 5.
Click to expand...
What would make him any worse than he has been the last half dozen years?

Yes, I have NO doubt.
Click to expand...
He isn't worse, but his weapons are directly related to how good his stats can be. Gronk missing half the year hurts. Welker gone and Amendola is made of glass. Who knows on hernandez.

It has nothing to do with whether or not Brady is a worse player or not, cause he isn't. Not to mention Manning looks like he will score better. Ryan also. SOme other guys can be top 5 pretty easily like Newton, Wilson, Kaepernick.

Saying NO doubt means it's a sure thing. Sorry, it is NOT a sure thing
Click to expand...
A lot of assuming here.

Gronk may not even miss a game. Amendola is healthy, younger and faster than Welker. And Hernandez is more likely to be there than not. They also have a bunch of very interesting rookie WR prospects in camp to go along with Donald Jones.

Yeah, I have NO doubt Brady will be top 5.

You can have all the doubt you want, but I don't have any.
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Any doubts yet, PatsFanCT??
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Nope. Not at all.

 
PatsFanCT said:
ComfortablyNumb said:
PatsFanCT said:
ghostguy123 said:
PatsFanCT said:
ghostguy123 said:
PatsFanCT said:
I have no doubt Brady will excel with whoever he has on the field. Top 5 should be a cakewalk for him.
Click to expand...
This is crazy talk. "NO" doubt?? Not even a little??

I can't call it any better than 50-50, and even at those odds I would bet he finishes outside the top 5.
Click to expand...
What would make him any worse than he has been the last half dozen years?

Yes, I have NO doubt.
Click to expand...
He isn't worse, but his weapons are directly related to how good his stats can be. Gronk missing half the year hurts. Welker gone and Amendola is made of glass. Who knows on hernandez.

It has nothing to do with whether or not Brady is a worse player or not, cause he isn't. Not to mention Manning looks like he will score better. Ryan also. SOme other guys can be top 5 pretty easily like Newton, Wilson, Kaepernick.

Saying NO doubt means it's a sure thing. Sorry, it is NOT a sure thing
Click to expand...
A lot of assuming here.

Gronk may not even miss a game. Amendola is healthy, younger and faster than Welker. And Hernandez is more likely to be there than not. They also have a bunch of very interesting rookie WR prospects in camp to go along with Donald Jones.

Yeah, I have NO doubt Brady will be top 5.

You can have all the doubt you want, but I don't have any.
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Any doubts yet, PatsFanCT??
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Nope. Not at all.
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People are acting like the season is over already. Game 2 was in ####ty weather. Brady is dealing with a bunch of players that have been professional football players for a cup of coffee so far. I remember in 2010 he slumped the beginning of the year and had 5 turnovers the first 5 weeks. He had no others the rest of the year and destroyed every team he encountered. If Brady owners are considering selling, people should buy.

 
MoveToSkypager said:
People are acting like the season is over already. Game 2 was in ####ty weather. Brady is dealing with a bunch of players that have been professional football players for a cup of coffee so far. I remember in 2010 he slumped the beginning of the year and had 5 turnovers the first 5 weeks. He had no others the rest of the year and destroyed every team he encountered. If Brady owners are considering selling, people should buy.
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Guess it depends on what you can get. Right now, Brady trades on the brand name and the legacy despite 2 pedestrian performances. Maybe you can get a stud RB or WR for him. If by week 5 or 6 and NE is still struggling and Brady is putting up QB 12 type numbers, what's he worth? That is the call. He SHOULD get better, especially if Gronk and Amendola can stay on the field, but Brady owners at least have to consider he won't have his usual top 4-5 year and get while the getting is good, no?

 
Two things:

- I don't think Brady is as good at throwing deep passes as he used to be.

- His WR's, to be frank, suck. They aren't running good routes or catching the ball consistently.

 
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ericttspikes said:
MoveToSkypager said:
People are acting like the season is over already. Game 2 was in ####ty weather. Brady is dealing with a bunch of players that have been professional football players for a cup of coffee so far. I remember in 2010 he slumped the beginning of the year and had 5 turnovers the first 5 weeks. He had no others the rest of the year and destroyed every team he encountered. If Brady owners are considering selling, people should buy.
Click to expand...
Guess it depends on what you can get. Right now, Brady trades on the brand name and the legacy despite 2 pedestrian performances. Maybe you can get a stud RB or WR for him. If by week 5 or 6 and NE is still struggling and Brady is putting up QB 12 type numbers, what's he worth? That is the call. He SHOULD get better, especially if Gronk and Amendola can stay on the field, but Brady owners at least have to consider he won't have his usual top 4-5 year and get while the getting is good, no?
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I have a hard time seeing Brady with much more than 30 TD's even with Gronk back 100%. He's still a QB1 but there are a lot of QB's who will put up similar numbers this year.

 
Brady has looked like shyte against Buffalo and the Jets. What's he going to do against good NFL teams?

I'm not suggesting he's washed up by any means, but he clearly needs Gronk, Amendola, and Vereen in his arsenal to be anywhere near a Top-5 QB, PatsFanCT's ludicrous opinion notwithstanding. Unless all of those weapons are healthy, I can easily think of 10 or more QB's I'd rather start:

Peyton

Brees

Rodgers

Ryan

Kaepernick

Newton

Vick

Stafford

Romo

Luck

Eli

and possibly

Wilson

RG-III

Bradford

Palmer

Let's be realistic here - you don't get points for past performance or name recognition. Not saying the above QB's are all better than Brady, just that they're CURRENTLY in a position to score more points.

 
ComfortablyNumb said:
Brady has looked like shyte against Buffalo and the Jets. What's he going to do against good NFL teams?

I'm not suggesting he's washed up by any means, but he clearly needs Gronk, Amendola, and Vereen in his arsenal to be anywhere near a Top-5 QB, PatsFanCT's ludicrous opinion notwithstanding. Unless all of those weapons are healthy, I can easily think of 10 or more QB's I'd rather start:

Peyton

Brees

Rodgers

Ryan

Kaepernick

Newton

Vick

Stafford

Romo

Luck

Eli

and possibly

Wilson

RG-III

Bradford

Palmer

Let's be realistic here - you don't get points for past performance or name recognition. Not saying the above QB's are all better than Brady, just that they're CURRENTLY in a position to score more points.
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Start here and there or have as my QB are completely different things - The guys in bold I'd take as my weekly starters over Brady... In his defense, if by some miracle Gronk and Dola can be healthy at the same time for 6 straight weeks or so, he would reassert himself as a top 5 guy.

 
MoveToSkypager said:
PatsFanCT said:
ComfortablyNumb said:
PatsFanCT said:
ghostguy123 said:
PatsFanCT said:
ghostguy123 said:
PatsFanCT said:
I have no doubt Brady will excel with whoever he has on the field. Top 5 should be a cakewalk for him.
Click to expand...
This is crazy talk. "NO" doubt?? Not even a little??

I can't call it any better than 50-50, and even at those odds I would bet he finishes outside the top 5.
Click to expand...
What would make him any worse than he has been the last half dozen years?

Yes, I have NO doubt.
Click to expand...
He isn't worse, but his weapons are directly related to how good his stats can be. Gronk missing half the year hurts. Welker gone and Amendola is made of glass. Who knows on hernandez.

It has nothing to do with whether or not Brady is a worse player or not, cause he isn't. Not to mention Manning looks like he will score better. Ryan also. SOme other guys can be top 5 pretty easily like Newton, Wilson, Kaepernick.

Saying NO doubt means it's a sure thing. Sorry, it is NOT a sure thing
Click to expand...
A lot of assuming here.

Gronk may not even miss a game. Amendola is healthy, younger and faster than Welker. And Hernandez is more likely to be there than not. They also have a bunch of very interesting rookie WR prospects in camp to go along with Donald Jones.

Yeah, I have NO doubt Brady will be top 5.

You can have all the doubt you want, but I don't have any.
Click to expand...
Any doubts yet, PatsFanCT??
Click to expand...
Nope. Not at all.
Click to expand...
People are acting like the season is over already. Game 2 was in ####ty weather. Brady is dealing with a bunch of players that have been professional football players for a cup of coffee so far. I remember in 2010 he slumped the beginning of the year and had 5 turnovers the first 5 weeks. He had no others the rest of the year and destroyed every team he encountered. If Brady owners are considering selling, people should buy.
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Is this 2010 you speak of the year he threw for 3,900 yards? Yeah, that sounds about right. The top-5 talk is now kinda crazy, seeing as he's currently QB23 on a PPG basis. Of course I doubt he finishes as a low end QB2... but even a low end QB1 is looking somewhat optimistic at this point.

 
Wait til' Gronk comes back, I drafted Brady in two-leagues and have Michael Vick and RG3 as backups. Brady is off to the bench until he proves he's an automatic 2 - 3 Touchdown guy.

Brady can throw perfect passes but if there's no one competent to catch them, game over.

 
karmarooster said:
MoveToSkypager said:
PatsFanCT said:
ComfortablyNumb said:
PatsFanCT said:
ghostguy123 said:
PatsFanCT said:
ghostguy123 said:
PatsFanCT said:
I have no doubt Brady will excel with whoever he has on the field. Top 5 should be a cakewalk for him.
Click to expand...
This is crazy talk. "NO" doubt?? Not even a little??

I can't call it any better than 50-50, and even at those odds I would bet he finishes outside the top 5.
Click to expand...
What would make him any worse than he has been the last half dozen years?

Yes, I have NO doubt.
Click to expand...
He isn't worse, but his weapons are directly related to how good his stats can be. Gronk missing half the year hurts. Welker gone and Amendola is made of glass. Who knows on hernandez.

It has nothing to do with whether or not Brady is a worse player or not, cause he isn't. Not to mention Manning looks like he will score better. Ryan also. SOme other guys can be top 5 pretty easily like Newton, Wilson, Kaepernick.

Saying NO doubt means it's a sure thing. Sorry, it is NOT a sure thing
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A lot of assuming here.

Gronk may not even miss a game. Amendola is healthy, younger and faster than Welker. And Hernandez is more likely to be there than not. They also have a bunch of very interesting rookie WR prospects in camp to go along with Donald Jones.

Yeah, I have NO doubt Brady will be top 5.

You can have all the doubt you want, but I don't have any.
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Any doubts yet, PatsFanCT??
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Nope. Not at all.
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People are acting like the season is over already. Game 2 was in ####ty weather. Brady is dealing with a bunch of players that have been professional football players for a cup of coffee so far. I remember in 2010 he slumped the beginning of the year and had 5 turnovers the first 5 weeks. He had no others the rest of the year and destroyed every team he encountered. If Brady owners are considering selling, people should buy.
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Is this 2010 you speak of the year he threw for 3,900 yards? Yeah, that sounds about right. The top-5 talk is now kinda crazy, seeing as he's currently QB23 on a PPG basis. Of course I doubt he finishes as a low end QB2... but even a low end QB1 is looking somewhat optimistic at this point.
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Brady finised 5th that year, kinda crazy.

 
Eminence said:
Wait til' Gronk comes back, I drafted Brady in two-leagues and have Michael Vick and RG3 as backups. Brady is off to the bench until he proves he's an automatic 2 - 3 Touchdown guy.

Brady can throw perfect passes but if there's no one competent to catch them, game over.
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As a Pats fan, my hopes are not high that Gronk returns as "the old Gronk." He's had multiple issues for the last several months. The media has noticed that he almost looks like a basketball player now vs. the hulking Gronk that we're used to seeing.

It's going to take some time for him to become the old Gronk. Wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't happen until next year when he's completely healthy.

In short, I wouldn't bet the house that the cavalry shows up once he returns.

What Brady is dealing with this year is far, far worse than the lean Reche Caldwell era. He's got nothing to work with. And unless both Amendola and Gronk return at 100% it could be a long year for Brady. I fully expect Brady to somehow get it done and for the Pats to still be competitive, but this could be a get it done ugly type of year.

 
cstu said:
MoveToSkypager said:
karmarooster said:
Is this 2010 you speak of the year he threw for 3,900 yards? Yeah, that sounds about right. The top-5 talk is now kinda crazy, seeing as he's currently QB23 on a PPG basis. Of course I doubt he finishes as a low end QB2... but even a low end QB1 is looking somewhat optimistic at this point.
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Brady finised 5th that year, kinda crazy.
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He was also #7 after 2 games.
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At first I thought you were saying "kinda crazy that 3900 yards put him in the top 5, huh?", which is pretty surprising, yes. Part of his top-5 finish in 2010 was because he threw 34 TDs that year. In any case, he's on pace for 3700/24 this year. Of course, that would not have put him in the top 5 in 2010. And it certainly would not put him in the top 5 in 2013.

And then I realized that your point was not "isn't it surprising that such a low yardage was top 5?" but was rather more like "Tom Freaking Top 5 Brady!" As if what he did in 2010 throwing to Welker, and Moss, and Branch, and Woodhead, and Hernandez, and Gronk for 16 games has anything to do with Brady in 2013 throwing to Dobson, and Thompkins, and Edelman... and...?

The only chance he had to have a top 5 season this year was to have Gronk, and Amendola, and Vereen, and a surprising rook, show up for most of the season. Instead, he's missing all 3 of those top 3 options for 11, 2-6, and who knows how many weeks. And instead of the rooks being "nice contributors" now they're among his only/top options (besides Edelman) making his neck practically explode. Could it all turn around next week if suddenly Amendola is healthy and Gronk is in mid-season form? Sure... but that seems, let's say, "remote." I'm surprised it takes so many words for you to understand this. He's just not there.

 
I thought this thread was nonsense when the rooks were performing well this summer. The concept had some merit I suppose when they struggled, however even in a bad game Brady does pretty well for FF.

282 and 2 or 3 TDs against Buff? It didn't feel like that watching the game.

185 and 1 TD is brutal and that was one of the ugliest games I've seen in quite some time.

I still think Dobson and KT will be fine real soon. KT and Brady seemed "off" to me and I had to remind myself there is no norm, they've never played together. Still, there's something there between those two and I think they'll click in week three after a longer than normal time to practice before the next game. I know Dobson didn't look great and I'm not here to say he did. It's just when watching, there were a number of times it was as if the defender wasn't there; that athletically he was far superior and about to catch the pass. He didn't and it might as well have hit him in the face everytime. Still though, when I saw the game again I noticed some impressive athleticism. Either one of these two (on another team) could be a project that does better next year, but the Pats don't have that luxury and they'll have to produce now.

I've played with "practice players" and I guess these two could be that and they'll just stink in every game we see, but that doesn't seem reasonable either. I think Gronk and Edelman assure TB some comfort on the field and he has time for these youngsters and they get better quickly. There's a ton of nerves by the duh mistakes and I'm hopeful/expectant that nervousness goes away.

 
Non-FF thought: I was surprised with how Brady handled himself Thursday night. Never have he and Phillip Rivers looked so similar (both on the field and on the bench). For all the talk of what an incredible leader he is, he came off like a spoiled brat. On two occasions after a Dobson 3rd down drop, you could all but actually see the lump in his throat jogging back to the bench. Sometimes a player needs an a$$-chewing and sometimes they need a pat on the helmet and a "we'll get'em next time". I'm willing to chalk it up to a bad night, but right now in pure NFL terms of being a team captain Brady is the frontrunner for bust of the year.

 
Brady has passion and you can see he's frustrated with his current receivers. I think they'll right the ship to some extent when Gronk comes back. I think it is going to help Ridley a ton. They miss Vereen a lot too and he'll be back in time for the playoffs. Quite frankly the Pats might be getting worse but they are still quite a bit better than anyone else in their division so they will be around in the playoffs.

If they have Amendola and Gronk in the playoffs to go along with Vereen, they will have a punchers chance. Because the defense looks to be improved.

 
Sabertooth said:
Brady has passion and you can see he's frustrated with his current receivers. I think they'll right the ship to some extent when Gronk comes back. I think it is going to help Ridley a ton. They miss Vereen a lot too and he'll be back in time for the playoffs. Quite frankly the Pats might be getting worse but they are still quite a bit better than anyone else in their division so they will be around in the playoffs.

If they have Amendola and Gronk in the playoffs to go along with Vereen, they will have a punchers chance. Because the defense looks to be improved.
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This is a good point and it's easy to envision a scenario where the Pats are "that team" this postseason. Ravens v2012 where they are on the road throughout but nobody wants to face when they get healthy at the perfect time.

 
FantasyTrader said:
Non-FF thought: I was surprised with how Brady handled himself Thursday night. Never have he and Phillip Rivers looked so similar (both on the field and on the bench). For all the talk of what an incredible leader he is, he came off like a spoiled brat. On two occasions after a Dobson 3rd down drop, you could all but actually see the lump in his throat jogging back to the bench. Sometimes a player needs an ###-chewing and sometimes they need a pat on the helmet and a "we'll get'em next time". I'm willing to chalk it up to a bad night, but right now in pure NFL terms of being a team captain Brady is the frontrunner for bust of the year.
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I think most of your post is fair criticism and I was disappointed in the way he allowed his frustrations to show. He embarrassed himself and his teammates and I hope he smartens up moving forward. I think his post game press conference indicated that he realizes he behaved poorly.

The obstacles the offense had to overcome for the nyj game were near biblical in proportion and I expect the offense and Brady's "body language" will both improve dramatically as the season moves forward.

 
Pats are cooked this season. I would cut bait with Brady ASAP before the roof caves in. The writing is on the wall, and has been for several months. Gronk hasn't lifted weights in about a year and looks like half the man he used to be. Hernandez, Lloyd and Welker are gone. Amendola has a torn abductor muscle and I'd be surprised if he plays before Thanksgiving if at all this season. The rookie WR's are average at best, and that's being kind. I don't care how talented Brady is. The Pats have THE WORST receiving corps in football right now - and it's not even close. Dump Brady while you can still get something for him.

 
Rotoworld:

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Tom Brady has been "calling and texting" free agents Brandon Lloyd and Deion Branch "gauging their availability."
We're assuming Brady is doing so on behalf of Patriots management. Per Rapsheet, Branch has told Brady he's "ready whenever," but that Lloyd wants to finish shooting his zombie movie before a potential return. In case you hadn't heard, Lloyd is starring in a direct-to-DVD affair with Daniel Baldwin called "After Effect." Lloyd likely has more left in the tank than Branch, but was a fading player last season and a locker-room lawyer. The fact that he's back on the Patriots' radar speaks to their lack of faith in their rookie wideouts.

Related: Patriots
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General Tso said:
Pats are cooked this season. I would cut bait with Brady ASAP before the roof caves in. The writing is on the wall, and has been for several months. Gronk hasn't lifted weights in about a year and looks like half the man he used to be. Hernandez, Lloyd and Welker are gone. Amendola has a torn abductor muscle and I'd be surprised if he plays before Thanksgiving if at all this season. The rookie WR's are average at best, and that's being kind. I don't care how talented Brady is. The Pats have THE WORST receiving corps in football right now - and it's not even close. Dump Brady while you can still get something for him.
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lol I wonder if this dude was trying to snag brady on the cheap

 
Still on pace for 3,700 and 27 TDs... still QB24 in my leagues... what did I miss? Did he have a "good" game with 225 yards on 6.25 YPA and 2 TDs? I guess it was nice that Thompkins stepped up, and his numbers will rise when Gronk/Amendola returns, but how much of a boost is that going to be on his year-end stats considering he's played 1/4 of the fantasy season already? Maybe he jumps up to the borderline QB1-2 area. Yay.

 
karmarooster said:
Still on pace for 3,700 and 27 TDs... still QB24 in my leagues... what did I miss? Did he have a "good" game with 225 yards on 6.25 YPA and 2 TDs? I guess it was nice that Thompkins stepped up, and his numbers will rise when Gronk/Amendola returns, but how much of a boost is that going to be on his year-end stats considering he's played 1/4 of the fantasy season already? Maybe he jumps up to the borderline QB1-2 area. Yay.
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You keep quoting season ending totals and then talk about just the fantasy season. And 3 games is not a quarter of the fantasy season.

Also, it's not like he is going to score only 75% of what he can do the rest of the way. If Amendola, Gronk and Vereen are healthy weeks 14-17, unless you have a wicked good backup, he's starting in the playoffs for you.

 
Wicked, huh? Clearly a homer. Good luck making the playoffs if you've got got Brady, probably because you drafted him as QB5-6.

In any case, 4 games is 1/4 of the actual NFL season. In fantasy we don't play week 17. And if your league starts the playoffs in weeks 14 or 15, then 3 games is very approximately 1/4 of the useful fantasy season. I guess 20-21.4% is more accurate for you. So, I guess he's only played 1/5th of the fantasy season. He's still been terrible.

If you have Brady, your chances of making the playoffs have been severely diminished by starting the QB24 for 3 weeks in a row. He's probably a decent trade target going forward, assuming increase production based on the return of Gronk. But if you drafted him... good luck.

Any owners out there want to throw out their records? And, if you're winning, post the caveat that you've been starting "x" player since week "y"...

 
karmarooster said:
Wicked, huh? Clearly a homer. Good luck making the playoffs if you've got got Brady, probably because you drafted him as QB5-6.

In any case, 4 games is 1/4 of the actual NFL season. In fantasy we don't play week 17. And if your league starts the playoffs in weeks 14 or 15, then 3 games is very approximately 1/4 of the useful fantasy season. I guess 20-21.4% is more accurate for you. So, I guess he's only played 1/5th of the fantasy season. He's still been terrible.

If you have Brady, your chances of making the playoffs have been severely diminished by starting the QB24 for 3 weeks in a row. He's probably a decent trade target going forward, assuming increase production based on the return of Gronk. But if you drafted him... good luck.

Any owners out there want to throw out their records? And, if you're winning, post the caveat that you've been starting "x" player since week "y"...
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You do realize, you can draft more than one QB and field a committee? Just because he had two bad weeks, with a completely new offense and offensive unit doesn't mean that as Danny and Gronk return his numbers won't trend up, likely to elite production levels.

Just start your other QB if you really feel so passionate about it. Everyone is aware of the situation.

 
karmarooster said:
Wicked, huh? Clearly a homer. Good luck making the playoffs if you've got got Brady, probably because you drafted him as QB5-6.

In any case, 4 games is 1/4 of the actual NFL season. In fantasy we don't play week 17. And if your league starts the playoffs in weeks 14 or 15, then 3 games is very approximately 1/4 of the useful fantasy season. I guess 20-21.4% is more accurate for you. So, I guess he's only played 1/5th of the fantasy season. He's still been terrible.

If you have Brady, your chances of making the playoffs have been severely diminished by starting the QB24 for 3 weeks in a row. He's probably a decent trade target going forward, assuming increase production based on the return of Gronk. But if you drafted him... good luck.

Any owners out there want to throw out their records? And, if you're winning, post the caveat that you've been starting "x" player since week "y"...
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3-0 with Brady here.

 
Im thinking hes a good buy low with those guys coming back soon, no? That being said its hard to look at weeks 1-3 vs 3 crappy teams (albeit two have good defenses) and feel confident about that. As a Kap owner I am targeting him

 
Dont look now but brady is establishing rapport with KT and Dobson, Gronk is inbound and the defense is kicking ###. Tommy Toon and The Hoodie will remember all this trash talk come January. Carry on.

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
Dont look now but brady is establishing rapport with KT and Dobson, Gronk is inbound and the defense is kicking ###. Tommy Toon and The Hoodie will remember all this trash talk come January. Carry on.
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Well yeah, but we have almost a quarter (23%) of the fantasy regular season gone. And his stats are at bust levels currently.

#27 .... Behind Ponder.

 
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Tuesday update - now QB27 in my league after being leap-frogged by Pryor. So, ahead of Brady the list includes the likes of Ponder, Locker, Manuel, Geno Smith, Alex Smith, Bradford, and Rivers.

The only QBs he's ahead of: Flacco, Palmer, Freeman (all played 3 games)...and Henne and Hoyer. Somehow Tarvaris Jackson put up a Brady's-worth of stats against Jacksonville in garbage time... 16 points!

Looking strictly at yards, he moves up a bit to QB19, so I guess there's some upside!

 
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