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The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Henry Ford
- Start date
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
You *******.
Zow
Footballguy
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
Now I don't feel bad about not understanding it.
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Yeah, this has come up before a couple of times. The felony DUI statute (Cal. Veh. Code § 23153, if anyone wants to get all researchy) says:
"It is unlawful for a person, while under the influence of any alcoholic beverage, to drive a vehicle and concurrently do any act forbidden by law, or neglect any duty imposed by law in driving the vehicle, which act or neglect proximately causes bodily injury to any person other than the driver"
There's a line of cases that says that a hit and run charge won't qualify to enhance a misdemeanor DUI into a felony under 23153, because a hit and run does not usually "proximately cause bodily injury" to anyone. In other words, in your "garden variety" hit and run, the act of fleeing, which breaks the law, doesn't cause injury. There could be an exception where the failure to stop and render aid worsens the victim's injuries and therefore does indeed cause injury, or the fleeing driver collides with someone else and thereby causes injury, but that isn't the usual fact pattern and doesn't seem to apply here. Hence, no felony DUI. I don't like this technicality and I know that several prosecutors would like it changed, but I think the Kern DA is applying the law correctly.
Note that there is no similar language in the hit and run statute, which is why (I assume) this gentleperson was charged with felony hit and run. That was enhanced by the DUI.
"It is unlawful for a person, while under the influence of any alcoholic beverage, to drive a vehicle and concurrently do any act forbidden by law, or neglect any duty imposed by law in driving the vehicle, which act or neglect proximately causes bodily injury to any person other than the driver"
There's a line of cases that says that a hit and run charge won't qualify to enhance a misdemeanor DUI into a felony under 23153, because a hit and run does not usually "proximately cause bodily injury" to anyone. In other words, in your "garden variety" hit and run, the act of fleeing, which breaks the law, doesn't cause injury. There could be an exception where the failure to stop and render aid worsens the victim's injuries and therefore does indeed cause injury, or the fleeing driver collides with someone else and thereby causes injury, but that isn't the usual fact pattern and doesn't seem to apply here. Hence, no felony DUI. I don't like this technicality and I know that several prosecutors would like it changed, but I think the Kern DA is applying the law correctly.
Note that there is no similar language in the hit and run statute, which is why (I assume) this gentleperson was charged with felony hit and run. That was enhanced by the DUI.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
More like stop letting a profession that's clearly trying to protect the current practitioners at the expense of the next generation keep the next generation from being allowed to practice.
2/3 of people who have graduated law school and presumably studied fail the bar in California. That's ridiculous. Especially since the state's average Multistate Bar Exam score is about 40 points over the national average.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Well, they let people from non accredited schools like The People's College Of Law take it too. It was funny when Kathleen Sullivan failed it when she was dean at Stanford Law.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
They also don't count the scores for anyone who doesn't finish the exam. So true pass rate is even lower.
I'm all for that
But it looks like it's not really necessary due to tuition rates skyrocketing and admissions plummeting.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
That darn next generation, they can't wait to put me out to pasture, which would be fine if I got the retirement plan of Secretariat, but I won't.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Sitting in a CLE. Already hate the day. Sat in back to be left alone. The only guy bigger than me here decided to sit next to me. FML
I'm going to Pacino this thing....
I'm going to Pacino this thing....
NWIH do I show up in-person for CLE with all of the online courses. Perfect brief writing time.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
That's probably next for us. Illinois didn't even require CLE for the first 7-8 years I practiced.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
We have to 12.
I got up. Can't sit next to someone and not want to be stabbing them.
Oh good, the next speakers resume... always love those. Look dimwit, I don't care about you just leave me alone and give me my certificate.
Only about 40% of first time ABA school test takers passed it this last time. I have as much self interest in keeping new attorneys out of the market as anyone, but that's a little silly.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I knew you've had the lowest passage rates for a while now. Have law school applications gone back up to pre 2008 levels or something?
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Virginia requires 4. But I'm also barred in DC which requires no CLE whatsoever, so I'm seriously considering going inactive in Virginia.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I hate NJ. We need to do 24, 12 in person.
Awesome, the joke that isn't funny but everyone laughs because, they are afraid this is really a Scientology recruiting meeting.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
We had one guy who did the best ethics and professionalism CLE I've ever seen and changed it up every year. Always used a famous movie as the backdrop for an overarching theme. His best was "Godfather Professionalism" which was based on "leave the gun, take the cannoli."
Committed suicide a few years ago and was replaced by someone who I can only assume is trying to get us all to follow him.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I love the presenter whose turn it isn't yet who interrupts all the time but doesn't have a Mic, so no one hears the question or statement but the speaker with the Mic answers with an inside joke.....
There is a knife 5 feet from where I am.
There is a knife 5 feet from where I am.
I haven't looked at the numbers recently. My recolllection is that they have bounced back a bit after the recession but they are certainly down relative to the boom years.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
This is NJ. I think we can stab anyone from a blowhard attorney to the guy that puts mayonaisse on his Italian sub.
That guy. Death is too good for him.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
My firm does an all day CLE marathon. Where most presentations are basically powerpoint slides about some attorney's practice. So I get to hear about due diligence in electrical co-generation agreements or something when I'm a litigator.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
Wow, thanks. So what, hypothetically, would one have to do while driving drunk to bump it to a felony? Excessive speed? Record an MLB game without express written consent?
This just shows how silly it is. Illinois implemented CLE about 10 years ago and I haven't seen any improvement in the ability of the lawyers I run into every day.
But I try to do classes that are relevant to my practice so even if I don't really pay attention I get some new case cites that I can use when I see the issue again.
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OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
That’s the interesting thing; I plea bargained one out involving similar facts (no hit and run) and defended another (I do maybe 2-3 criminal cases a year) a while back, and in each, excessive speed or even weaving brought the enhancement or the threat from the DA, so you're not far off. The key is temporal; since hit and run always occurs after the injury except in highly unusual fact patterns, it can't work as the enhancement factor, but just about anything unlawful done at the same time that thus proximately contributes to the injury can. Sure the baseball game recording, or mattress tag removal, or meeting with Russians would do it.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Move over! It makes very little sense to me either and it's not like prosecutors have trouble garnering attention in Sacramento, so I'm puzzled this is still a thing. The best news is that even though I'm sure the Kern DA or DDA that was quoted wanted to enhance for Farmer Only, she got the law right and didn't. That's comforting.thanks for the explanation. It seems pretty odd to this layman for sure.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Done. Did not stab anyone.
They were lucky.
They were lucky.
Instinctive
Footballguy
CA was at 34.5% last administration, or at least that's the number I've been told by classmates. I tend to just keep my head down, prepare, and assume things will take care of themselves.
Re: Sullivan - Stanford's pass rate is only 90% in California. She certainly hasn't been the only one, just the most famous.
I think it probably seems more like the rate is too low so that there are less lawyers (which would be a good thing, IMO), which seems like an anti-competition issue to me.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Galileo
Footballguy
Anyone in here a real estate attorney? I'm seeking advice.
My parents own a not so mobile, mobile home in a 55+ over community in Florida that we are selling. My parents and I are in Ohio. Father is an 86 yr old dementia patient. I have his general power of attorney. Mom and dad are both listed on title. It appears as though we have a buyer (I expect offer tomorrow). Buyer has cash in hand, so no financing needed. I guess the home is actually considered a vehicle (has a vehicle title, but there is no VIN # like you would expect for a typical vehicle) and the sale price includes land share in the community.
I guess I am trying to figure out how to make this happen from 1000 miles away. Can I pull this off without a trip to Florida? Can we close this deal ourselves from a distance. I assume we will need a local Florida real estate attorney or title agency to close this deal or can we do it ourselves? Can my mother sign everything without dad/me? Any advice or tips you can provide for this situation?
My parents own a not so mobile, mobile home in a 55+ over community in Florida that we are selling. My parents and I are in Ohio. Father is an 86 yr old dementia patient. I have his general power of attorney. Mom and dad are both listed on title. It appears as though we have a buyer (I expect offer tomorrow). Buyer has cash in hand, so no financing needed. I guess the home is actually considered a vehicle (has a vehicle title, but there is no VIN # like you would expect for a typical vehicle) and the sale price includes land share in the community.
I guess I am trying to figure out how to make this happen from 1000 miles away. Can I pull this off without a trip to Florida? Can we close this deal ourselves from a distance. I assume we will need a local Florida real estate attorney or title agency to close this deal or can we do it ourselves? Can my mother sign everything without dad/me? Any advice or tips you can provide for this situation?
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Just got an arbitration decision giving us total victory in a defense against a $100 million contract claim. We even won our attorney's fees on a counterclaim for violation of the covenant of good faith and fair dealing.
"Today was a good day ..."
"Today was a good day ..."
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Not sure whether to post this here or in the John Oliver thread.
Enjoy the ACLU's Amicus brief in the WV Coal guy v Oliver case. The Table of Contents gives you the basic idea.
Enjoy the ACLU's Amicus brief in the WV Coal guy v Oliver case. The Table of Contents gives you the basic idea.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I do real estate transactions from a distance all the time. It's not hard. I don't know the rules in Florida though. It's probably in your best interest to have a lawyer there do everything for you. I do know one thing though - Florida is massively particular about how a power of attorney is used for real estate transactions of any kind. If mobile home fit into that definition down there, then you really need to get a Florida attorney to help you to be safe. If the wording is not exactly the way they like it down there they might not agree to record the new title to the "car."
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Hope you get a nice victory dinner. I recommend getting the $200 steak, take a few bites then push it away -- "Take this away and please send the sommelier over with the scotch list."
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I'm doing a super restrictive diet.
I must say, having now had a chance to read the opinion in full, this benchslap is its own reward. I pride myself on getting along with opposing counsel, but these guys were some pieces of work. And every time we'd point out fundamental deficiencies in their case, they'd throw a tantrum. The Panel, not being the type to look gift fees in the mouth, bent over backwards to let them take it to trial. But the opinion is scathing.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Otis
Footballguy
Business development is such a roller coaster. You get a big chance to take on a case for a new client. You get some associates to spend their weekend putting together a proposal, and you spend a bunch of time and energy too. You give a one hour presentation over a Skype call. And then cricket. Had a bad feeling about it at the end, but maybe just being a pessimist. But when a day or two passes and I send two emails unanswered? Oof.
Anyway you cant land em all, and you have to take ten at bats to get three or four hits. But it's still really annoying when you get invested in and excited about one and in the end it just feels like a bunch of hours wasted from your already way too busy schedule.
I miss being an associate.
Anyway you cant land em all, and you have to take ten at bats to get three or four hits. But it's still really annoying when you get invested in and excited about one and in the end it just feels like a bunch of hours wasted from your already way too busy schedule.
I miss being an associate.
Thorn
Footballguy
A lot of that is on the buyer to figure out. They should be retaining someone to do closing, who would tell you what is needed to effectively convey title.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
This is basically any business. You should be happy it was a skype pitch and you didn't have to fly anywhere for it, to then receive no response.
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